Just cool as anything! I never thought about rail maintenance - but it is critical and you show why :) Very informative - especially the part about a long rail sliver fouling a signal. Thank you, sir!
Mark, I'm always impressed with the level of knowledge you present to us railfans here. I think UP or BNSF missed their mark by not approaching you for a training position either in your exact professional area of expertise or in general railroad maintenance operations. Your easy going manner has a way a holding our attention. This stuff is downright interesting and it's because of you and the way you present it. Thanks for what you do for the railfanning community. The info you give us really makes all of us more informed. Those concrete railroad ties; I note there were a few with a good amount of material cracked away. What is the criteria for the railroad having to replace the tie when they crack like some of those you had shown in this video? Do they look at say, a block of 20 ties consecutively and deem one or three of them cracked as passing muster? What is the lifespan of these concrete ties? Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words! I was offered management positions a few times and could have applied for training jobs I'd probably have been awarded but I was a field guy. I loved being out there learning by doing and helping to train guys in the field. Here's the link to a video I made about my thoughts on management jobs ua-cam.com/video/B7MAxHDxA9A/v-deo.html
@@MarkClayMcGowan When does a tie have to be replaced? A general answer is when the tie cannot perform it's job of holding gauge, alignment and load. Bout one failing or failed tie is like the venerable rotten apple. If more than one tie in a group has failed, FRA standards address when the failed group results in a condition that requires correction before continued operation of train movements at a speed threshold. Continued operation is possible by lowering the operating speed to a lower threshold all the way down to 10 mph. Of course, that fixes nothing, but avoided a complete stoppage. What things trigger a failed tie call? Damage of wood or concrete tie beneath the rail/plate/fastening group from weather, rot, derailment damage, etc. that causes the nest to fail lateral (gauge, alignment) or vertical requirements for the track class. Asleep yet? Sorry.
Mark. I really enjoy your videos and explanations concerning technology used by modern railroads. Really appreciate your style of explaining not only the "hows" but also the "whys" for us railfans that not watch trains pass by but also what it takes to keep them running efficiently and safely. Thank you.
Good video to go along with the explanation. Somebody wrote on your last video that showed the equipment passing over the rail, that the grinding also removed micro fissures, which makes perfect sense
Hi Mark , been to many a fault after the rail grinder! Especially on turnouts with the swarf shorting out insulated joints! Had a few cuts fingers from rail flow as well..LOL Thanks for posting. GRegg
Mark, I do not come here as a expert, but as one with years of experience in maintenance. Rail (and wheel) manufacturing processes are carefully controlled and adhere to very strict metallurgical and regulatory standards. The steel used and the shape meet the highest standards. Rails are produced with many different "recipes" for the desired metallurgical product. Yet, once produced in the highly controlled "hot" rolling process, the rail in service is subjected to millions of "cold" rolling events as loaded and empty cars traverse the rail in the field. The perfect shape you show in the video for the new rail succumbs to torturous treatment. The grinding process carefully brings the rail back into a semblance of the original shape without compromising the structural integrity of the basic beam design. It is a delicate balance extend the life of the rail
Mark, I’ve watching your videos for quite a while, your stuff is interesting. First time I’ve subscribe to anything on You Tube.Years ago I used to camp at the loop. I see your guitars, I play drums in a few bands here in Hawaii.
Thank you! I really appreciate the subscription. I try to keep it interesting rather than just have a bunch of trains going by. I haven't played with bands since the early 90s. I'm just starting to play again after a year and a half due to injuries and illness. It ain't like riding a bike! Here's a link to a tour of my guitars. The room itself has changed significantly so just fast forward to the axes! ua-cam.com/video/H2U79yUB1Jc/v-deo.html
@@MarkClayMcGowan Come on vacation here and we can over the 33 railroads that once were very important here on the Hawaiian Islands. Very interesting railroad history. I have two bands alone that rock and roll here at my studio plus several others locally. Consider a vacation, talk trains and jam.
Thanks for explaining that I seen one before and I didn't know what it was now I do thank you very much keep them coming you you explain things very well thank you
You can add later, that they will transpose the rails when they have become too worn to grind. That way, the field side of the rail becomes the gage side and the wear cycle starts all over again until the rail is shot!
When I started working the on Tehachapi peanut gang in 1984, our job was to follow the big Extra gang who transposed the jointed rail every day. They stopped transposing rail up here around 1990 once it was all CWR.
Another very informative video Mark, Thanks! I was just getting ready to send you an email asking why they grind the rails. It appears that most of the ties are all concrete with those clips to hold the rail in place...I did notice that one of the ties looked pretty cracked in the middle. I would assume that the concrete ties are reinforced with some sort of rebar in their construction.
Yes, they are heavily reinforced and made with a special type of concrete. They are very durable but sometimes just start breaking down. The track forces will, at some point, come change this tie out. Thanks for checking it out!
I remember the (SP) old heads telling me they used to transpose rails from one side to the other just to get more life out of them. I was MofW track guy. For SP. Transfered in 1998 to TE&Y now a Locomotive Engineer since 2004.
When I started working in Tehachapi in 1984 we followed the extra gang whose job was transposing rail every day. Once CWR was installed they stopped doing it. Thanks for checking it out!
I was just thinking about that. And how I’ve also seen rail that had the head worn really thin, removed from a curve and re-used by welding it into straight stretches of track, and re-used on industrial spurs and sidings.
They are inspected regularly and can be machined or replaced as deemed necessary. In cases of extreme issues that occur between inspections, they are just replaced. In either case, both wheels would be repaired or replaced at the same time.
Great tutorial on rail grinding!! Are inside & outside rails "swapped" especially on curves to wear the "non-flange" sides to get the most use of those rails before scrapping and full replacement? love the "down & dirty" of railroading!!!! big Thank You!!
Ron , that used to happen quite a bit in the old days, down here in Australia anyway! I don't think it happens too much now, especially on high traffic lines ? You see a lot of worn rail in yards , and I have seen passing loops made entirely of "worn" outer edge rail that look new from the inner edges. Cheers Gregg.
There is a happy degree of curve that trains will negotiate without much fuss. However Tehachapi has tighter curves and I believe the inside wheel chatters which actually pounds down the rail and mushrooms it. Edit: Add... The addition of super elevation in the 1920s somewhere around there helped a lot with leaning the trains into curves to make them turn easier and increase speed significantly. The wheels have a slight can't towards the flange the diameter wheel towards the bearing side is a smaller diameter than the flange side this serves two purposes one is to find center on tangent track. Two when it negotiates curves the (for example a right hand curve) the left wheel will ride to the outside rail (larger diameter towards the flange) and the right and we'll be riding on the smaller diameter towards the flange which in turn will make it go around the curve more naturally.. It's easier to explain with a drawing then in text.
Sam, another consideration is the rigid structure of the wheels and axle. The wheels cannot rotate independently, everything rolls as one unit. Ergo, traversing a curve, the distance along the low rail is less than the distance along the high rail. Although seemingly miniscule, the difference results in a "hunting" action as the wheel-axle unit searches for the way to correct for the distance problem. The taper you discuss is part of the design of the wheels to allow for correction for the difference in the distance that the wheels must necessarily travel to correct for the distance differential. Your comment is very incitedul.
That's interesting Mark. Could you, if you have an opportunity, film a closeup of train wheels sitting on the rail to show the contact between wheel and rail.
I can try to find a cut on a spur or somewhere I know won't be moving and where I won't raise any eyebrows. If I can find that I can do a short piece on that.
Mark, You should really avoid being on track by yourself without a look out and technically you could get in serious trouble if the UP or FRA were to come on site. The mushroom on the rail is call gage face wear is a result from vertical compressive forces resulting in metal flow from rolling contact fatigue (RCF). The RCF results from a variety of causes from the wheel rail interface from varying factors. The forces that you are discussing are both lateral and vertical forces that are created from the rolling stock. Be careful out there and be aware of train movement on any track in any direction! The rail grinders are always on the go and working across all of the Class 1's in NOAM. Be safe out and be careful!
I spent 40 years in the signal department and am well aware of how to use ITD as well as signals to know whether or not anything is cleared. I am also in contact with those who can let me know what is happening for great distances in either direction. I am no longer an employee so I do not fall under FRA guidelines and UP knows I am out there and will not do anything dangerous. I have a video all about how roadway workers protect themselves, and another about railfanning safely and responsibly. Maybe you didn't see my video following the rail grinder at night, but I assure you, any time there is a special project on the Tehachapi, I know about it, and if I haven't already done a video about it, will head up and get one. I appreciate your concern, but I have it covered! Thanks for checking it out!
No. They grind the surface of all contaminants prior to welding. Most welds on large scale rail projects now use an electric welding machine. Here's the link to a playlist in which is a video I made of them installing new rail, and using the electric welder. Thanks for checking it out! ua-cam.com/play/PL6ge3RoxmyvpcyRZPKJKl6W4l5IdiC-Ps.html
Why do they have different track or rail weights? Is it just a function of when they were made, or are different standards required in different environments and demands ?
Heavier rail is more durable, especially with the great weight and traffic density of modern trains. Even most branch lines are now using heavier rail than the 80-110 pound rail that was common when I started at SP in 1979. Much of the UP Fresno Sub was still 115 pound into the 2000s! Thanks for checking it out!
why was rail grinding not beintg done 50 years ago, I lived by an active line never saw a grinder? never saw extensive rail replacement either. have practices changed?
They've been grinding rail since the 1910s, just not on the scale it's done today. Before the common use of Continuously Welded Rail (prior to 1985), it was generally changed in small sections. Now it is done in major projects that, if you don't catch the first couple of days, you will miss as they move very quickly. I hope to catch a project at some point. Here is a link to a video I made at the Orange Empire Rail Museum that shows an early grinder. Thanks for checking it out! ua-cam.com/video/BufOqEXJV2A/v-deo.html
i have a question was the rail wears it the profile of a train wheel (tapered) does it the begin to contact a larger foot print and cause friction due to the speed difference?
I'm not an expert (but I play one on UA-cam), but the rail wears flat on top and to the outside of a curve and at an angle on the inside. As long as the wheels still have their shape, the contact patch shouldn't change much. The concern is flanges riding up the inside of the rail or the head breaking off. Thanks for checking it out!
Thought you’d answer sir and “we” appreciate your content here as I knew what the grinder was for but hadn’t seen what or how bad the rail was they were requested to grind. Great stuff and glad to see you back in top form…
If and when a section of rail is deemed unworthy to leave in place, and the process is undertaken to replace with either stick or continuous, I have to assume that the removed rail is recycled back to a steel facility and melted down for new purposes..... Do they ever re-use old removed rail in alternate areas that would encounter less usage???
With all mainline and sidings being Continuously Welded Rail, the sections are changed out in 1/4 mile sections in huge projects. The new rail is delivered and the old rail picked up, by a specialized "Ribbon Rail Train". I am sure it is recycled in some fashion. Shorter pieces of rail are kept on hand to repair broken rails and worn or damaged rail on spurs, etc. Thanks for checking it out!
One of my early jobs was to work with a rail gang relaying very old rail with some second hand tail from Cajon Pass. This relaying was on the Phoenix line between Ashfork and the East (north) end of the line change that bypassed Prescott. The rail came from the heavy use of Santa Fe and UP trains on the pass and was littered with small defects from the rail test car. The defects were cut out and the replacement string was pulled to meet the new joint location. The welding gangs spent most of their timeaking thermite welds on these pulled-together locations (several per day) instead of just doing the welds every 1440 ft. Which is typical for such a relay job. The answer is that scrap rail is usually the bent rail, or rail so worn out that it is not economic to relay or reuse at all, and is sent to rail heaven (or hell) for a meltdown.
I really can't say. That's a possibility, but it may also have come from a spur or something that was removed. It it's on a rack, it's rail they don't have a problem using again, but that one would never be used on a main or siding. Thanks for checking it out!
Mark, at 3:39 their is a broken concrete tie how did that happen your best guess is ok. I wood think something hit it pretty hard the reinforcement did it's job so it is not a loss and it is still doing it's job of holding the rail. Thank you for your time
I noticed that one when I was shooting and it didn't appear to have any impact marks on it. Sometimes they start breaking up. Bad cast, bad batch. Who knows?
Mark is there anything larger then the 141 pounds per yard ? I heard of 151pound . how many times do you think that they can grind the rail head before it has to be replaced ? are they a prime area for the lubercation set up? hope all is well, be safe and healthy out there.barry
141 is the heaviest rail I have worked around but I don't see why they can't make it heavier. Rail can be ground multiple times as long as it stays with the FRA standards. There are dozens of curve oilers on the Tehachapi. Here is the link to a video I made about them. ua-cam.com/video/pB-5t5kS2V4/v-deo.html
Great video Mark! Is it a practice to use ( on a curve) one section of rail that is heavier than the opposite side? Am assuming that it gives the track a slight elevation on one side thus reducing wear. Correct? Also is UP using 141lbs rail on the entire Tehachapi line or just in certain sections?
Thank you! Both rails are the same size. The roadbed is just super elevated in curves. I believe most of the Tehachapi is still 136 but I am seeing more 141 around so I guess future rail projects will be going to that. Thanks for checking it out!
I understand the grinder did the whole Tehachapi line. It would have done Cable two or three days prior to the derailment but that had nothing to do with the cause.
It depends on where they are and what they are used for. On the Tehachapi mainline, maybe ten years? In the valley, maybe twice that. I've seen rail still in use on old branches and spurs nearly 100 years old! Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER ON RAIL LIFE, ONE MORE QUESTION A SEMI TRAILER ON RAILCAR IS IT ONLY HELD ON WITH THE FRONT KING PIN I DON'T SEE ANY TIE DOWN AT THE REAR. THANKS ENJOY ALL YOUR WORK FROM THE RAILS..
Honestly, I am not conversant with the properties of the steel used in rail. Just guessing, I would think not much as rail is very flexible and must endure dynamic forces in all directions. Thanks for checking it out!
Wood ties are still very well suited in areas with little grade or curvature like up the San Joaquin Valley. They have about a twenty year lifespan and are much cheaper and are easier to transport, install and change in the event of damage. Thanks for checking it out!
I remember in 2021, at a CP crossing, the signal lights were flashing although no train in vicinity. There was police car with flashing lights on site. I am assuming this is good protocol until a signal maintenance worker comes along to resolve the problem? Another question, when a distant train approaches and the signal lights are activated, how exactly are they activated? I assume it is a sensor between locomotive and the signals box? And one final question, if a locomotive goes by a grade crossing and the signal lights are not activated, is it the responsibility of the train crew to notify the responsible Personnel to resolve the issue? Thanks again for your videos Mark! Our favourite.. the grinding train at work during the night! We enjoy your informative videos explained from a 'down to earth' gentleman. Ken, Ontario, Canada.
Thanks for explaining that Mark, I was curious about why they did that grinding stuff🚂🚂
Just cool as anything! I never thought about rail maintenance - but it is critical and you show why :) Very informative - especially the part about a long rail sliver fouling a signal. Thank you, sir!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Mark, I'm always impressed with the level of knowledge you present to us railfans here. I think UP or BNSF missed their mark by not approaching you for a training position either in your exact professional area of expertise or in general railroad maintenance operations. Your easy going manner has a way a holding our attention. This stuff is downright interesting and it's because of you and the way you present it. Thanks for what you do for the railfanning community. The info you give us really makes all of us more informed.
Those concrete railroad ties; I note there were a few with a good amount of material cracked away. What is the criteria for the railroad having to replace the tie when they crack like some of those you had shown in this video? Do they look at say, a block of 20 ties consecutively and deem one or three of them cracked as passing muster? What is the lifespan of these concrete ties? Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words! I was offered management positions a few times and could have applied for training jobs I'd probably have been awarded but I was a field guy. I loved being out there learning by doing and helping to train guys in the field.
Here's the link to a video I made about my thoughts on management jobs ua-cam.com/video/B7MAxHDxA9A/v-deo.html
I neglected a reply about the ties. Both wood and concrete have about a 20 year lifespan though it differs depending on terrain, traffic and weather.
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thanks, Mark!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Appreciate that info, Mark.
@@MarkClayMcGowan When does a tie have to be replaced? A general answer is when the tie cannot perform it's job of holding gauge, alignment and load. Bout one failing or failed tie is like the venerable rotten apple.
If more than one tie in a group has failed, FRA standards address when the failed group results in a condition that requires correction before continued operation of train movements at a speed threshold. Continued operation is possible by lowering the operating speed to a lower threshold all the way down to 10 mph. Of course, that fixes nothing, but avoided a complete stoppage.
What things trigger a failed tie call? Damage of wood or concrete tie beneath the rail/plate/fastening group from weather, rot, derailment damage, etc. that causes the nest to fail lateral (gauge, alignment) or vertical requirements for the track class.
Asleep yet? Sorry.
Hello Mark! Thanks for the very Detailed Description about why Rail Grinding is necessary. Thanks! 👍
The rail can be ground several times as long as it doesn't exceed FRA specs . Awesome video Mark .
Mark, you do an excellent job telling the story and I commend you.
That was a great video Mark and a fine follow up to your first segment on rail grinding.
Great video as always! Those rail grinders are pretty cool to watch when they’re grinding! Quite a show!
Mark. I really enjoy your videos and explanations concerning technology used by modern railroads. Really appreciate your style of explaining not only the "hows" but also the "whys" for us railfans that not watch trains pass by but also what it takes to keep them running efficiently and safely. Thank you.
My pleasure and I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Good video to go along with the explanation. Somebody wrote on your last video that showed the equipment passing over the rail, that the grinding also removed micro fissures, which makes perfect sense
Hi Mark , been to many a fault after the rail grinder! Especially on turnouts with the swarf shorting out insulated joints!
Had a few cuts fingers from rail flow as well..LOL
Thanks for posting.
GRegg
Great video Mark. I never knew why the grinding was done or how deformed the rails can get over time. Thanks!
Thanks "Professor Mark" always learn something from your videos keep them coming.
Haven’t seen your channel in a long time. Glad to see you’ve fully recovered from COVID
Thank you. Me too! I still have a couple of long haul effects, but nothing life altering. Thanks for coming back!
Thanks for the good info Mr. Mark.
Thank You for showing this. This answers my previous question on the grinding video. Appreciate that, Mark!!
Very nice narrative video on the explanation of why RRs need rail grinding, I tend to get asked this question a lot myself from people.
Mark, I do not come here as a expert, but as one with years of experience in maintenance. Rail (and wheel) manufacturing processes are carefully controlled and adhere to very strict metallurgical and regulatory standards. The steel used and the shape meet the highest standards. Rails are produced with many different "recipes" for the desired metallurgical product. Yet, once produced in the highly controlled "hot" rolling process, the rail in service is subjected to millions of "cold" rolling events as loaded and empty cars traverse the rail in the field.
The perfect shape you show in the video for the new rail succumbs to torturous treatment. The grinding process carefully brings the rail back into a semblance of the original shape without compromising the structural integrity of the basic beam design. It is a delicate balance extend the life of the rail
Mark you did a good job of explaining. Great video 👍👍👍❤️
Thanks for that info. Always learning with your channel. Thanks!
Mark, good documentation. Very well done and explained.
Great video! A nice follow up to the grinder video.
Mark, great video, thanks for teaching us about this!
I like the concrete ties .
That’s a fairly well described video Mark.😊❤
Thank you. I'm not much of a technoid, but I do what I can! Thanks for checking it out!
Very informative video about rail grinding. Many thanks Mark 😀
Thank you for the video Mark. Explained a lot after seeing your other video
Now I know! I think I commented about it in rail grinding video. Good channel and videos brother
Thank you! I had a few comments so I figured I'd better get the info out there. Glad you approve! Thanks for checking it out.
Mark, I’ve watching your videos for quite a while, your stuff is interesting. First time I’ve subscribe to anything on You Tube.Years ago I used to camp at the loop. I see your guitars, I play drums in a few bands here in Hawaii.
Thank you! I really appreciate the subscription. I try to keep it interesting rather than just have a bunch of trains going by. I haven't played with bands since the early 90s. I'm just starting to play again after a year and a half due to injuries and illness. It ain't like riding a bike! Here's a link to a tour of my guitars. The room itself has changed significantly so just fast forward to the axes!
ua-cam.com/video/H2U79yUB1Jc/v-deo.html
@@MarkClayMcGowan Come on vacation here and we can over the 33 railroads that once were very important here on the Hawaiian Islands. Very interesting railroad history. I have two bands alone that rock and roll here at my studio plus several others locally. Consider a vacation, talk trains and jam.
Thanks Mark for the info.. great job. Gary
Thank you Mark for another informative video.
Great explanation.
Who knew? thank you stay safe
Thanks for explaining that I seen one before and I didn't know what it was now I do thank you very much keep them coming you you explain things very well thank you
My pleasure! Thanks for checking it out!
That help explains ALOT Thanks Mark.
That explains it very well, thanks great job!
You can add later, that they will transpose the rails when they have become too worn to grind. That way, the field side of the rail becomes the gage side and the wear cycle starts all over again until the rail is shot!
When I started working the on Tehachapi peanut gang in 1984, our job was to follow the big Extra gang who transposed the jointed rail every day. They stopped transposing rail up here around 1990 once it was all CWR.
Very interesting. Thank you.
Good morning to all from SE Louisiana 28 Jan 22
Aloha This video answered my question
Another very informative video Mark, Thanks! I was just getting ready to send you an email asking why they grind the rails. It appears that most of the ties are all concrete with those clips to hold the rail in place...I did notice that one of the ties looked pretty cracked in the middle. I would assume that the concrete ties are reinforced with some sort of rebar in their construction.
Yes, they are heavily reinforced and made with a special type of concrete. They are very durable but sometimes just start breaking down. The track forces will, at some point, come change this tie out. Thanks for checking it out!
Great explication.
I remember the (SP) old heads telling me they used to transpose rails from one side to the other just to get more life out of them.
I was MofW track guy. For SP. Transfered in 1998 to TE&Y now a Locomotive Engineer since 2004.
When I started working in Tehachapi in 1984 we followed the extra gang whose job was transposing rail every day. Once CWR was installed they stopped doing it. Thanks for checking it out!
I was just thinking about that. And how I’ve also seen rail that had the head worn really thin, removed from a curve and re-used by welding it into straight stretches of track, and re-used on industrial spurs and sidings.
Informative video. Do the wheels on the equipment need to be reground or are the wheel sets just replaced?
They are inspected regularly and can be machined or replaced as deemed necessary. In cases of extreme issues that occur between inspections, they are just replaced. In either case, both wheels would be repaired or replaced at the same time.
Neat video Mark
Something I learned recently is to identify it as Field side and gauge side of rail.
Great tutorial on rail grinding!! Are inside & outside rails "swapped" especially on curves to wear the "non-flange" sides to get the most use of those rails before scrapping and full replacement? love the "down & dirty" of railroading!!!! big Thank You!!
Ron , that used to happen quite a bit in the old days, down here in Australia anyway! I don't think it happens too much now, especially on high traffic lines ? You see a lot of worn rail in yards , and I have seen passing loops made entirely of "worn" outer edge rail that look new from the inner edges.
Cheers Gregg.
They stopped transposing rail up here around 1990 after it was all replaced with continuously welded rail. Thanks for checking it out!
There is a happy degree of curve that trains will negotiate without much fuss. However Tehachapi has tighter curves and I believe the inside wheel chatters which actually pounds down the rail and mushrooms it. Edit: Add... The addition of super elevation in the 1920s somewhere around there helped a lot with leaning the trains into curves to make them turn easier and increase speed significantly.
The wheels have a slight can't towards the flange the diameter wheel towards the bearing side is a smaller diameter than the flange side this serves two purposes one is to find center on tangent track. Two when it negotiates curves the (for example a right hand curve) the left wheel will ride to the outside rail (larger diameter towards the flange) and the right and we'll be riding on the smaller diameter towards the flange which in turn will make it go around the curve more naturally..
It's easier to explain with a drawing then in text.
Sam, another consideration is the rigid structure of the wheels and axle. The wheels cannot rotate independently, everything rolls as one unit. Ergo, traversing a curve, the distance along the low rail is less than the distance along the high rail. Although seemingly miniscule, the difference results in a "hunting" action as the wheel-axle unit searches for the way to correct for the distance problem. The taper you discuss is part of the design of the wheels to allow for correction for the difference in the distance that the wheels must necessarily travel to correct for the distance differential.
Your comment is very incitedul.
That Rail Grinder sounds like my last visit to the Dentist…………… 😳😬
That's interesting Mark. Could you, if you have an opportunity, film a closeup of train wheels sitting on the rail to show the contact between wheel and rail.
I can try to find a cut on a spur or somewhere I know won't be moving and where I won't raise any eyebrows. If I can find that I can do a short piece on that.
Mark, You should really avoid being on track by yourself without a look out and technically you could get in serious trouble if the UP or FRA were to come on site. The mushroom on the rail is call gage face wear is a result from vertical compressive forces resulting in metal flow from rolling contact fatigue (RCF). The RCF results from a variety of causes from the wheel rail interface from varying factors. The forces that you are discussing are both lateral and vertical forces that are created from the rolling stock. Be careful out there and be aware of train movement on any track in any direction! The rail grinders are always on the go and working across all of the Class 1's in NOAM. Be safe out and be careful!
I spent 40 years in the signal department and am well aware of how to use ITD as well as signals to know whether or not anything is cleared. I am also in contact with those who can let me know what is happening for great distances in either direction. I am no longer an employee so I do not fall under FRA guidelines and UP knows I am out there and will not do anything dangerous. I have a video all about how roadway workers protect themselves, and another about railfanning safely and responsibly. Maybe you didn't see my video following the rail grinder at night, but I assure you, any time there is a special project on the Tehachapi, I know about it, and if I haven't already done a video about it, will head up and get one. I appreciate your concern, but I have it covered! Thanks for checking it out!
If the slivers do create a stop indication, how hard is it to find? Do they have a way to pin point exactly where that fault is occurring? Thank you.
The signal department have "short finders" that, once the affected block is identified, are very accurate. Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan thank you. I was thinking it would suck of somebody buried one intentionally. Thank you, really appreciate the commentary.
Can they Thermite weld the rail with the rust in place?
No. They grind the surface of all contaminants prior to welding. Most welds on large scale rail projects now use an electric welding machine. Here's the link to a playlist in which is a video I made of them installing new rail, and using the electric welder. Thanks for checking it out!
ua-cam.com/play/PL6ge3RoxmyvpcyRZPKJKl6W4l5IdiC-Ps.html
After the rail first get ground, the wheels sing on the track, until the bring marks are flattened out.
Why do they have different track or rail weights? Is it just a function of when they were made, or are different standards required in different environments and demands ?
Heavier rail is more durable, especially with the great weight and traffic density of modern trains. Even most branch lines are now using heavier rail than the 80-110 pound rail that was common when I started at SP in 1979. Much of the UP Fresno Sub was still 115 pound into the 2000s! Thanks for checking it out!
why was rail grinding not beintg done 50 years ago, I lived by an active line never saw a grinder? never saw extensive rail replacement either. have practices changed?
They've been grinding rail since the 1910s, just not on the scale it's done today. Before the common use of Continuously Welded Rail (prior to 1985), it was generally changed in small sections. Now it is done in major projects that, if you don't catch the first couple of days, you will miss as they move very quickly. I hope to catch a project at some point. Here is a link to a video I made at the Orange Empire Rail Museum that shows an early grinder. Thanks for checking it out!
ua-cam.com/video/BufOqEXJV2A/v-deo.html
i have a question was the rail wears it the profile of a train wheel (tapered) does it the begin to contact a larger foot print and cause friction due to the speed difference?
I'm not an expert (but I play one on UA-cam), but the rail wears flat on top and to the outside of a curve and at an angle on the inside. As long as the wheels still have their shape, the contact patch shouldn't change much. The concern is flanges riding up the inside of the rail or the head breaking off.
Thanks for checking it out!
Thought you’d answer sir and “we” appreciate your content here as I knew what the grinder was for but hadn’t seen what or how bad the rail was they were requested to grind. Great stuff and glad to see you back in top form…
Thanks! I always try to get as much information as I have out there and I am glad you appreciate it!
If and when a section of rail is deemed unworthy to leave in place, and the process is undertaken to replace with either stick or continuous, I have to assume that the removed rail is recycled back to a steel facility and melted down for new purposes..... Do they ever re-use old removed rail in alternate areas that would encounter less usage???
With all mainline and sidings being Continuously Welded Rail, the sections are changed out in 1/4 mile sections in huge projects. The new rail is delivered and the old rail picked up, by a specialized "Ribbon Rail Train". I am sure it is recycled in some fashion. Shorter pieces of rail are kept on hand to repair broken rails and worn or damaged rail on spurs, etc. Thanks for checking it out!
One of my early jobs was to work with a rail gang relaying very old rail with some second hand tail from Cajon Pass. This relaying was on the Phoenix line between Ashfork and the East (north) end of the line change that bypassed Prescott. The rail came from the heavy use of Santa Fe and UP trains on the pass and was littered with small defects from the rail test car. The defects were cut out and the replacement string was pulled to meet the new joint location. The welding gangs spent most of their timeaking thermite welds on these pulled-together locations (several per day) instead of just doing the welds every 1440 ft. Which is typical for such a relay job. The answer is that scrap rail is usually the bent rail, or rail so worn out that it is not economic to relay or reuse at all, and is sent to rail heaven (or hell) for a meltdown.
So that last rail shroomed over must of been too far gone so they pulled it?
I really can't say. That's a possibility, but it may also have come from a spur or something that was removed. It it's on a rack, it's rail they don't have a problem using again, but that one would never be used on a main or siding. Thanks for checking it out!
Mark, at 3:39 their is a broken concrete tie how did that happen your best guess is ok. I wood think something hit it pretty hard the reinforcement did it's job so it is not a loss and it is still doing it's job of holding the rail. Thank you for your time
I noticed that one when I was shooting and it didn't appear to have any impact marks on it. Sometimes they start breaking up. Bad cast, bad batch. Who knows?
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thanks Mark like I said best guess. Bad cast is a good possibility at the rate they make them. Paul
Cheers mate!
Mark is there anything larger then the 141 pounds per yard ?
I heard of 151pound . how many times do you think that they
can grind the rail head before it has to be replaced ? are they
a prime area for the lubercation set up? hope all is well, be
safe and healthy out there.barry
141 is the heaviest rail I have worked around but I don't see why they can't make it heavier. Rail can be ground multiple times as long as it stays with the FRA standards.
There are dozens of curve oilers on the Tehachapi. Here is the link to a video I made about them.
ua-cam.com/video/pB-5t5kS2V4/v-deo.html
Great video Mark! Is it a practice to use ( on a curve) one section of rail that is heavier than the opposite side? Am assuming that it gives the track a slight elevation on one side thus reducing wear. Correct? Also is UP using 141lbs rail on the entire Tehachapi line or just in certain sections?
Thank you! Both rails are the same size. The roadbed is just super elevated in curves. I believe most of the Tehachapi is still 136 but I am seeing more 141 around so I guess future rail projects will be going to that. Thanks for checking it out!
Great stuff
Did the grinder go down toward Cable where the derailment happened? Or is that work in progress?
I understand the grinder did the whole Tehachapi line. It would have done Cable two or three days prior to the derailment but that had nothing to do with the cause.
Very interesting
MARK, HOW LONG DO RAILS LAST BEFORE REPLACEING ?
It depends on where they are and what they are used for. On the Tehachapi mainline, maybe ten years? In the valley, maybe twice that. I've seen rail still in use on old branches and spurs nearly 100 years old!
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER ON RAIL LIFE, ONE MORE QUESTION A SEMI TRAILER ON RAILCAR IS IT ONLY HELD ON WITH THE FRONT KING PIN I DON'T SEE ANY TIE DOWN AT THE REAR. THANKS ENJOY ALL YOUR WORK FROM THE RAILS..
Is the rail surface hardened? If so how deep?
Honestly, I am not conversant with the properties of the steel used in rail. Just guessing, I would think not much as rail is very flexible and must endure dynamic forces in all directions. Thanks for checking it out!
Who makes that hat?
What track was that I seen video runaway in the 90s
I have no idea
what about rail ties? why would anyone use wood ties anymore?why not concrete?
Wood ties are still very well suited in areas with little grade or curvature like up the San Joaquin Valley. They have about a twenty year lifespan and are much cheaper and are easier to transport, install and change in the event of damage. Thanks for checking it out!
Can I ask you a signal question Mark?
I remember in 2021, at a CP crossing, the signal lights were flashing although no train in vicinity. There was police car with flashing lights on site. I am assuming this is good protocol until a signal maintenance worker comes along to resolve the problem? Another question, when a distant train approaches and the signal lights are activated, how exactly are they activated? I assume it is a sensor between locomotive and the signals box? And one final question, if a locomotive goes by a grade crossing and the signal lights are not activated, is it the responsibility of the train crew to notify the responsible Personnel to resolve the issue? Thanks again for your videos Mark! Our favourite.. the grinding train at work during the night! We enjoy your informative videos explained from a 'down to earth' gentleman. Ken, Ontario, Canada.