Exploring Low and High Frequency Inverters
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- Опубліковано 30 кві 2014
- In this video, Dr. Finley Shapiro takes the viewer inside two photovolatic inverters.
This video was produced by the Northern Mid-Atlantic Solar Education and Resource Center, part of The Pennsylvania State University. You can learn more at www.solarcenter.psu.edu
Great Video! Thanks for bringing up typical differences between two inverters.
A comparative word on advantages/ disadvantages for each type, under generic applications would have been even better.
Never the less Thanks.
Great video. Informative and detailed. This just confirms my love for old style transformer supplies (I know this isn't a transformer's purpose here). They have isolation ability as a major plus. Without high switching & opt-isolators.
I was building standard "H" style AC to DC supplies at age 11 LOL. - (AC mains to a transformer primary, on secondary full wave diode bridge [2 diodes if the transformer is tapped], a major capacitor, big inductor on B+, another major cap, then a 7812 one amp reg.) -
what you describe is not a "H" style anything. And this is not a good video, it's mis-informative. it's also 2 yrs old, so I'm not gonna bother, but it should be pulled down
You would have to have 4 diodes to make a full wave bridge , But you should know this if you've been building power supplies !!!
@@Jimmeh_Bwhat would be more accurately informative?
Nice vid, thumbs up!
Thank you i'll stick forever with low frecuency inverters
Maybe worth mentioning the efficiency difference between them, also? The high frequency inverter should be more efficient, by more than 20%, right? Tank you for the insight, all the best!
So you missed the whole purpose of this video.
Wich one to choose?
What are their primary use and fonction%
What is the idle consumption?
Thks & nice tie
Thank for this informative review. I wonder which one is suitable for hot weather and which one will give a real sinewave output?
"Real sine wave output" is a misnomer in the inverter world. They get closer to the "real" thing but don't/can't produce a true real sine wave form.
@@aday1637 maybe not that old rats nest, but i own 2 china pure sinewave inverters,about 150 euro each (3000w---all day.. to 5000 watts peak to start the air compressor) and,yes sir, a perfect sinewave, more stable,at 219-220VAC than the public utility's (from 225 to 243!!); the output filter,inductor and double brown caps are big enough to maintain the sine wave at full load.
I,as a hobby,repair and sell china home solar inverters.
Your HF circuit is INCORRECT. The transformer doe not belong.
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You cannot have a transformer in the output stage of a HF inverter, it must be an inductor.
The transformer would saturate and only briefly output HF ONLY (before the transistors overheat and blow up).
Remove the transformer and just keep the filter (which is mostly a single large inductor), and it will work :)
wrong
You do need the high frequency transformer, to step the voltage up to about 200 volts. What he's calling the filter, is actually another set of four transistors, which serve the same function as the first four in the low frequency, except it's a perfect square wave, at about 40 kHz. The section he calls the "filter", is actually a rectifier, and the pulse width modulator, who's output, like you said, must go through an inductor to integrate out the high frequency switching, and leave just the 50/60 Hz sine wave. There is always a capacitor from the output of the inductor to ground as well. He missed the entire high voltage DC link. That's why high frequency inverters are more complicated. Of course, you understand, a true sine wave inverter is just a crude but powerful class D amplifier, with a built in signal generator. Mine uses a turnary output stage, so it can produce 120 V RMS, from a 200 volt DC bus. Only 2 of the four transistors do high speed switching and pulse width modulation. The other 2 transistors switch high and low, right at 50/60 Hz. At the zero crossing, the slow transistors transition from one rail to the other, The PWM produces a half wave, then inverts the half wave, as the polarity is switched. It's like a bridged output stage, one carries the signal, the other reverses polarity. That saves switching losses, and only requires one, rather than 2 inductors.
You just don't understand , they use a high frequency transformer made from manganese - ( zinc ) ferrite . But thats only part of it. Whenever I see something that I know to be wrong like this , I research the crap out of it !
Great video. What are the pros and cons of each topology? Thank you
hello i got 1000w inverter i want to know what kind of wave i got is square wave or what how do i know and i want to rise up the frequency pleas if u can help
thx
Just use an electric fan to check if your inverter is a square or modified sine wave. If you hear humming sound then its a square wave or modified sine wave. If pure sine wave, you dont hear a humming sound.
how is it being heavy a problem ? Its not like your going to carry it once a day somewhere , Its stationary !! The low freq. inverters are much better for starting well pumps or anything with a heavy start current ! And they last much longer than high freq. inverters . After what I've learned the past 10 years from building solar systems , I wouldn't even consider using a high freq. inverter for anything . They are simply a cheap option really .
Ask me why I agree with you.
I have a question, I recently purchased an aims split phase 240v/48v inverter charger. I powered up my up right garage freezer with it, but it gets extremely hot. Not sure what could be causing it. I did buy it for taking a few circuits off the grid, I'm just testing it for now.
It could be but also from my experience I would say that you're losing more than 20% of your energy because of the loses, on the low frequency type. I would go for a good high frequency and good quality inverter, and for the well pump I would put a slow start, inrush current limiting module. This will also prolong the well pump life. On more than 15 years working with them, I would definitely go for a good high frequency type, no doubt of it. I've learned my lot of lessons. But you definitely have a point. Those low frequency inverters are very reliable. Still, with the actual technology I'll always say that isn't worthy anymore. Cheers!
Inverters are used in RV vehicles.
I don’t think is totally like you say .
1) toroidal transformer inverter are much more efficient that real LF, that have a square iron transformer. Almost like HF.
2) they’re companies that produce both and absolutely recommend LF for repeated high surge inductive loads.
They explain specific in they’re sites.
I have a doubt. Victron energy call he’s toroidal “hybrid HF” and not LF.
Why?
Personally, I think this video could have been packed with more information that actually compares both types of inverters while mentioning the features and qualities of the inverters displayed in the video - are they strictly grid-tied, they don't seem to have battery terminals, only PV input, at the DC end or something.
Moreover, I have read how that people believe that the LF will totally outclass and outmatch the HF inverters, and even be more durable. However, I dare say that these opinions are based off of limited experiences with premium HF inverters, because they can be cheaper to construct, and can be constructed in multiple ways since they employ circuitry to achieve power inversion, there are different quality forms available with most people procuring the cheaper and less premium variants.
are these both grid tied?
never answered but the diagram indicated that it cant be anything but grid tied as there is no battery
@@ometec Which brings to mind the fact that the review is incomplete and leaves you with more questions than answers.
@@aday1637to be fair, he probably meant to only compare both types of inverters according to what he demonstrated - the type of transformers and circuits they hold.
High frequincy =more transformer losses
Not even wrong.
Bogus review...no mention of battery connections which are vital to function. Inverters in this range do not rely on pv input to make ac current. Also no mention of advantages of low frequency inverters over high frequency ones other than a mere mention that they are 'simpler'. LF inverters tend to handle motor start up and other momentary high loads much better than HF inverters. Plus they tend to be much more reliable with all the simplicity. This review really doesn't shed any real light on comparison of LF vs HF.
I do understand your first point (about the batteries) but calling it a bogus review is a little over the top. He reviewed two different types of transformers from manufacturers, ones which don't seem to have terminal inputs for a battery. Of course, the video could have been made to be more informative, listing some of those points you have mentioned and even more.
You said nothing about efficiency
generally, high frequency inverters are more efficient
@@julianschulte339 ...and much more unreliable.
that was underwhelming...
Is it just me or does this guy sound a bit like Arnold Schwarzenegger
No, he sounds like Mr. Rogers to me.
You're both morons
Not even close, to me...
I was thinking Al Bundy
Sounds more like a lying politician to me.