I've never commented before, after watching you for 2+ years but your videos inspire much more than I think you know. You remind me so much of my grandfather and you shouldn't apologise for little mistakes you make as like him you've forgot much more than most of us young guys know. The internet is a brilliant thing but also a magnet for "know all's". When he died I found it hard to get back into the shop and watching you helped and made me remember what I was missing and for that I thank you. Keep up the great videos. Thanks from the UK
I love Tubalcain sarcasm. "all you need is $5000 worth of tools and you can make a $15 part and save money" . I am pretty sure I am guilty of that myself.
I know the feeling, I do a bit of reloading and honestly it's more for my sanity than it ever is for saving money. I had a good laugh at the comment then I thought of all the things I have that cost more than what I make.
Interesting how the knurling cleans up the stock ,great rust removal method! I was just about to buy a wiggler set you've saved me £16 and justified the existance of my machine shop. I remember reading something years ago where a guy made a washer on his £1000 lathe, his wife commented that the washer cost £1000 to produce, then the guy said if he made another then they're only £500 each! Superb tutorial as always, thank you.
Dear Lyle, I am 70 years old and on retirement from accounting and needing an interest, I decided to go to technical college to learn fitting and turning. I have bought my own 10" lathe and am waiting for it to be delivered. I discovered your UA-cam videos and whilst I can't pretend to have watched them all (yet) I have found them of the utmost interest. Your knowledge is remarkable, but more so is your ability to present enjoyable and entertaining teaching which is greatly appreciated. I love your work, sir, and commend you. Regards from Sydney, Australia, Tony PS - Tubalcain - "The first artificer in metals mentioned in Holy Writ"
We had tool and die maker working as a machinist, he used to use a blob of duct seal and a needle on the big mill to locate a point, exactly like that wiggler. It was neat to see. Good vid Lyle!
Another wonderful video, Mr. Pete. Having dealt with cataracs myself, I can sure understand seeing things on the big screen that you didn't catch in the shop. The technique and theory are there, for sure, as well as my optivisor which has saved my butt more than once! Thanks, Mr. Pete!
Mr. Pete, your videos are both enjoyable and educational. I want to confirm that the Craftsman and General wigglers are in fact the same. My General set differs in only the logo. The pouch and included accessories at the same, down to the cap on the needle.
One of the machinists in my old workshop used to say "Don't tell the boss that I did that for free" for similar scenarios such as your "free of charge" removal of the majority of the knurled diameter at 14:26. Thank you for your videos from a young Churchill's machine tool fitter. Fond memories of my time as an apprentice!
I've had a Craftsman wiggler set in my toolbox for 25 years. I never once thought to use it for anything because I've always just used an edge finder. But after watching this, I decided to use it just to say I did. I discovered an advantage over the edge finder, which is obvious in your video. I don't need to tie up two toolholders to keep an edge finder and a pointer chucked up; I can use the wiggler for both.
That's a fine wiggler Mr. Pete : ) One of my senior shop projects was on a little jig bore and required using the wiggler ball with the thinnest smear of prussian blue on the ball to see when it made contact with the edge of the part. The prussian blue use was a sneaky blindsided trick that we hadn't been taught....I was wondering if you had a similar trick.
Mr Pete i just crashed the cross feed on my Logan lathe and stripped the gear that you repaired in the videos #130,and #131. Thanks to you I was able to take it apart, and find a new gear on eBay for $ 100-. Note to self and others-- make sure you know which direction your going before engaging feed screw and leave a little fudge room in case you are wrong. It sure would be nice to have a shear pin in that lead screw. Thanks again.
Correction Mr. Pete. My favorite indicator is the Swiss made Interapid 310b. I have one I had restored after scraping all the grey enamel off and polishing the brass body. Very beautiful little device. But my Lastword works great for simplicity.
Well, now I know why I can never get my wiggler center finder to work right. All along I've been using a fake Sharpie. hehehe Good project. Although I have a couple wiggler sets, I may do this project for the fun of it. Good stuff mrpete, keep it coming.
Good video, and I like the humor$$. You showed what happens when the needle is moved a very little too far inward when finding an edge. I want to expand on that point and say it really, really does not take much of a move to do that. I putts around the other day for a number of minutes trying to find an edge, always going over board. I think I have a similar problem, ...... age and eye sight. Great common sense video - thanks for the continuing education!
Another way to use the wiggler (pointer) is to punch a dimple and then put the wiggler in the dimple. turn on the machine and lift the quill. Adjust the position of the work until the wiggler runs true after pulling up from being in the dimple. This was a poor method of writing but hopefully you get the idea. I use it a lot to get my work dead center under the quill.
I believe that each one of us in this career has his own style while doing the job ..for me when I start turning I done the job one time turning knurling threading and so on finally I cut it of I think it is more accurate and more complicated but accuracy is most important. thanks for the pleasure you gaven us.
I too got quite a chuckle over the $5000 tools comment. At 73, I just bought me a lathe/milling machine and I'm sure I'll start accumulating lots of tools. I'm loving it!! By the way, how did you get the name Tubalcain?
mrpete - Regarding Sharpies. I worked as a contractor for NASA - Sharpies are approved for marking of space flight hardware that will see the vacuum of space. They had to study this in a Vacuum chamber and look at the amount of outgasing to approve its use. So another reason to use a sharpie - Good if you become an astronaut!
Nice job pal, sorry I didn't wait until the end almost to the end, I'm kind of an old-timer as well, 51 years. Never heard of the Wiggler now I know keep it up
I didn't know that when using it as an edgefinder you weren't supposed to move past it running true. Learn something from you all the time. Looks like an interesting project.
Is the only reason that you change from one lathe (where you did the knurling) to the second lathe for the cutting just so you don't have to change the setup?
Just A simple tip. actually its common sense when I first started out in metal working I was drilling a 3" hole with a hole saw. and the shavings started building up around the drill kinda like a Large brillo pad .and I tried to clear the shavings with my bare hand and they grabbed ahold of my hand, about time I got to the shut off switch my hand was swiss cheese Its like sticking your hand in a box of razor blades . lesson learned Dont clean shavings with your bare Hand Turn the machine off clear it ,proceed ..., Thanks for the vid very informative.
Love the series that you set up. Is there any way you could send me a scan of that book on the project 26? Looks like a poor mans depth mic. Or something like that. Would love to take on that challenge! You are my #1 go to on machining. Thanks again......
If you wanted to you could have made a carbon copy of that or any copyrighted tool without issue. The only time you would run into violating the copyright is if you tried to profit of the design itself. 👍👍
I have been told before not to clean chips with compressed air. Every place I ever worked they used, guess what, compressed air. I have tried using a vacuum but it doesn't work very well, how do you clean chips?
I love your vids they bring back the good ol days in this shop I own now ! I wish everyone in this shop had your knowledge ! if your ever close to Batesville Arkansas stop in and see us at Custom CNC thanks john clouse
I looked up the text book.....200 to 300 bucks on Amazon, wow. Mrpete do you have any suggestions on a good book for let's say, an intermediate beginner? Mostly for lathe and mill layout type stuff, not necessarily the operation of them. Thank you for your great videos!! I feel like I'm watching my father in the shop again when I watch you....except you have a bit more patience haha!
I know General Jimmy Stewart when I hear him... PROOF: 1. Your folks owned a hardware store...that makes sense! 2. You know How The West Was Won...code for You know how... the WWW... 3. You can't stay away from making movies! 4. You are definitely the man who knows too much with no time for comedy when you're in the shop AND you think it's seventh heaven. It's a wonderful life and you and your lathe were just made for each other. You are our shopworn angel bringing us the greatest show on earth! wink wink. your secret is safe with me General.!!!! Stay safe and keep the movies rolling...
Mr Pete, I hope you are ok. Normally you have the next part of your videos uploaded in the next day or two and I think it's been 4 or 5 days since you posted part 1. I don't mean to sound impatient, I'm just concerned about you and hope everything is OK. Thanks for all your videos, they are a tremendous help.
Everyone else of Interest, sorry, but please pay attention to this man on account he's one of the ones who wrote the books on the stuff. For your own favor
I stopped watching at $5000 worth of tools. I don't know who you are aiming these videos at, but if they are novice enough to need them, why would they have a complete machine shop in the first place, notwithstanding affording it., At 72, having shops since I was 16, I've NEVER had resources to afford more than $2k in tools over my entire life.This is plain assinine.
Martin Walters just because you were never able to afford an expensive hobby doesn't mean nobody else can either. Also, what kind of shop did you have that only had 2k worth of tools? I was an auto mechanic for about 12 years and by my 4th year I had well over 20k in tools.
I've never commented before, after watching you for 2+ years but your videos inspire much more than I think you know. You remind me so much of my grandfather and you shouldn't apologise for little mistakes you make as like him you've forgot much more than most of us young guys know. The internet is a brilliant thing but also a magnet for "know all's". When he died I found it hard to get back into the shop and watching you helped and made me remember what I was missing and for that I thank you. Keep up the great videos. Thanks from the UK
By far, with no exageration.. my favorite channel. Thank you and please keep the great videos coming!
THANK YOU very much!
Yay! I've never understood how wigglers work. Now, by seeing one built, I may actually figure it out. Thanks for sharing, and keep up the great work.
I love Tubalcain sarcasm. "all you need is $5000 worth of tools and you can make a $15 part and save money" . I am pretty sure I am guilty of that myself.
It's more fun that way. And then the tool's American made too.
I know the feeling, I do a bit of reloading and honestly it's more for my sanity than it ever is for saving money. I had a good laugh at the comment then I thought of all the things I have that cost more than what I make.
Thanks for watching
$5000....!!! Poor's man shop..... lol
Gotta love that Tubalcain sas :D
Interesting how the knurling cleans up the stock ,great rust removal method! I was just about to buy a wiggler set you've saved me £16 and justified the existance of my machine shop. I remember reading something years ago where a guy made a washer on his £1000 lathe, his wife commented that the washer cost £1000 to produce, then the guy said if he made another then they're only £500 each! Superb tutorial as always, thank you.
...and I suppose if he makes ENOUGH washers- he can get the cost down to a PENNY each-(?)
I really enjoy your videos! You're the shop teacher I never had!!
Brad Smith Me to! I wish I had been exposed to this when I was younger.
THANK YOU very much!
mrpete222 no thank you sir! You've taught a 34 year old many things over the past few months. Truly appreciate it! Keep the videos coming please
Brad Smith
Hahaha! The joke on saving money and making it yourself. Priceless! Thank you for the humor beyond the call of duty!
Dear Lyle,
I am 70 years old and on retirement from accounting and needing an interest, I decided to go to technical college to learn fitting and turning. I have bought my own 10" lathe and am waiting for it to be delivered. I discovered your UA-cam videos and whilst I can't pretend to have watched them all (yet) I have found them of the utmost interest. Your knowledge is remarkable, but more so is your ability to present enjoyable and entertaining teaching which is greatly appreciated. I love your work, sir, and commend you.
Regards from Sydney, Australia,
Tony
PS - Tubalcain - "The first artificer in metals mentioned in Holy Writ"
Thanks for watching. You will love having a lathe--keep watching. I have lots of followers down under.
I thought I had heard of that name somewhere!
...well, how are you doing, Cobber?
Love your how to make videos, I have a wiggler I made out of a round glass headed pin. Works ok on my small mill.
I am really enjoying these little projects. My shop is too cold now but come spring I hope to replay and actually make these things.
My garage shop is frigid too
We had tool and die maker working as a machinist, he used to use a blob of duct seal and a needle on the big mill to locate a point, exactly like that wiggler. It was neat to see. Good vid Lyle!
Another Great Video, Mr. Pete! Keep 'em coming! You are the shop teacher that I wished I had!
Thanks
Yes. Ever since I started getting into this hobby, my wife just can't believe all the money I'm saving!
Brings back so many memories. Thank you.
Mr. Pete,
I made a wiggler following your basic design. I put a post on Hobby Machinist
and you were mentioned as my inspiration. Thank you!
Wonderful video Mr. Pete. Thank you for your dedication. Regards, Mike
Another wonderful video, Mr. Pete. Having dealt with cataracs myself, I can sure understand seeing things on the big screen that you didn't catch in the shop. The technique and theory are there, for sure, as well as my optivisor which has saved my butt more than once! Thanks, Mr. Pete!
Mr. Pete, your videos are both enjoyable and educational. I want to confirm that the Craftsman and General wigglers are in fact the same. My General set differs in only the logo. The pouch and included accessories at the same, down to the cap on the needle.
Thanks for watching. I figured as much. I think General made lots of their tools
Can you imagine walking around reaching in your pocket and telling people hey want to see my wiggler hahha great video love these projects.
One of the machinists in my old workshop used to say "Don't tell the boss that I did that for free" for similar scenarios such as your "free of charge" removal of the majority of the knurled diameter at 14:26.
Thank you for your videos from a young Churchill's machine tool fitter. Fond memories of my time as an apprentice!
Thanks for watching
I've had a Craftsman wiggler set in my toolbox for 25 years. I never once thought to use it for anything because I've always just used an edge finder. But after watching this, I decided to use it just to say I did. I discovered an advantage over the edge finder, which is obvious in your video. I don't need to tie up two toolholders to keep an edge finder and a pointer chucked up; I can use the wiggler for both.
Great-yes, there are advantages
LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT VIDEO, THANKS MR. PETE.
Excellent as usual. Thank you, sir, for your time in TEACHING! God Bless You.
THANK YOU very much!
That's a fine wiggler Mr. Pete : )
One of my senior shop projects was on a little jig bore and required using the wiggler ball with the thinnest smear of prussian blue on the ball to see when it made contact with the edge of the part. The prussian blue use was a sneaky blindsided trick that we hadn't been taught....I was wondering if you had a similar trick.
I need to try that
Thanks for the effort in making these videos
Mr Pete i just crashed the cross feed on my Logan lathe and stripped the gear that you repaired in the videos #130,and #131. Thanks to you I was able to take it apart, and find a new gear on eBay for $ 100-. Note to self and others-- make sure you know which direction your going before engaging feed screw and leave a little fudge room in case you are wrong. It sure would be nice to have a shear pin in that lead screw. Thanks again.
That gear must be the weak point in the train-glad you got it fixed
Correction Mr. Pete. My favorite indicator is the Swiss made Interapid 310b. I have one I had restored after scraping all the grey enamel off and polishing the brass body. Very beautiful little device. But my Lastword works great for simplicity.
Thanks for yet another great video! I'm probably going to buy that book you showed us :)
Thanks for watching
Well, now I know why I can never get my wiggler center finder to work right. All along I've been using a fake Sharpie. hehehe
Good project. Although I have a couple wiggler sets, I may do this project for the fun of it. Good stuff mrpete, keep it coming.
Yep, a Sharpie clone will not work; the polarity is wrong.
ShysterLawyer The parting tool was improperly cleaned and adjusted. You need a bucket of prop wash and a left handed monkey wrench,respectively.
Don't forget the 6 yards of flight line and also you should install a new muffler bearing.
If all else fails, lube it with some blinker fluid.
That's an adorable little combo square!
Finally know how to use my old, inherited set properly. Thanks.
Excellant job ! I have a question about your power feed
Can you machine threads with it ?
Good video, and I like the humor$$. You showed what happens when the needle is moved a very little too far inward when finding an edge. I want to expand on that point and say it really, really does not take much of a move to do that. I putts around the other day for a number of minutes trying to find an edge, always going over board. I think I have a similar problem, ...... age and eye sight.
Great common sense video - thanks for the continuing education!
Great & very true comment
Another way to use the wiggler (pointer) is to punch a dimple and then put the wiggler in the dimple. turn on the machine and lift the quill. Adjust the position of the work until the wiggler runs true after pulling up from being in the dimple. This was a poor method of writing but hopefully you get the idea. I use it a lot to get my work dead center under the quill.
I believe that each one of us in this career has his own style while doing the job ..for me when I start turning I done the job one time turning knurling threading and so on finally I cut it of I think it is more accurate and more complicated but accuracy is most important. thanks for the pleasure you gaven us.
Yes, well stated
I own that craftsman wigler set! bought it years ago at a fle market.
These are great projects and thanks for sharing. Later and all the best.
I love watching your videos, I have learned so much. Thank you
I too got quite a chuckle over the $5000 tools comment. At 73, I just bought me a lathe/milling machine and I'm sure I'll start accumulating lots of tools. I'm loving it!! By the way, how did you get the name Tubalcain?
mrpete - Regarding Sharpies. I worked as a contractor for NASA - Sharpies are approved for marking of space flight hardware that will see the vacuum of space. They had to study this in a Vacuum chamber and look at the amount of outgasing to approve its use. So another reason to use a sharpie - Good if you become an astronaut!
Good to know-thanks
Mr. Pete thanks for the great video
What is the brand of cutting of inserts you use? Very nice video
You mentioned not drilling too deep for fear of becoming out of concentricity. How can this be minimized? What causes it?
Hi Mr. Pete,
Have you ever considered putting a book together?
He already did. It's in the form of over 700 videos. Where on earth would this man find time to actually pen a book?
Not only that, he actually reads the book to us...we just have to sit back and listen! :-)
I think he did, Mr. Pete, didn't you write a few of the workshop series books? I have one on my desk on steam engines written by a Mr. Tubal Caine
There was a fellow in England with the same moniker..Mr. Pete has mentioned him. I believe that is who wrote the books you are referring to. :-)
@@Daledavispratt I have come across him in Engineering in Miniature and other UK books
Nice job pal, sorry I didn't wait until the end almost to the end, I'm kind of an old-timer as well, 51 years. Never heard of the Wiggler now I know keep it up
Love all your videos. Could you please tell me how the heck do you keep your hands so clean? What do you use to clean them with?
Dawn. I often wash them 10 times during a video session
I didn't know that when using it as an edgefinder you weren't supposed to move past it running true. Learn something from you all the time. Looks like an interesting project.
This is great! It’s amazing the skill you have. This is MAN STUFF!
Thank you very much
another great and useful project -- thank you for these videos!!
Had a wiggler in my box for over 30 yrs and rarely used it. I just stuck a pointed 1/8th inch pin into my collet and that was it.
Now I know what that tool is in the box that I just bought and how to use it. Thanks
Is the only reason that you change from one lathe (where you did the knurling) to the second lathe for the cutting just so you don't have to change the setup?
Exactly
"Older than Methuselah"
Lyle you are funny as :D Don't ever change, man!
Just A simple tip. actually its common sense when I first started out in metal working I was drilling a 3" hole with a hole saw. and the shavings started building up around the drill kinda like a Large brillo pad .and I tried to clear the shavings with my bare hand and they grabbed ahold of my hand, about time I got to the shut off switch my hand was swiss cheese Its like sticking your hand in a box of razor blades . lesson learned Dont clean shavings with your bare Hand Turn the machine off clear it ,proceed ..., Thanks for the vid very informative.
Those chips can be nasty
Love the series that you set up. Is there any way you could send me a scan of that book on the project 26? Looks like a poor mans depth mic. Or something like that. Would love to take on that challenge!
You are my #1 go to on machining. Thanks again......
Sorry, I think I gave that book away. At least I cannot find it
You can read the book online at babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015055835659&view=1up&seq=1
but dang, project 26 is missing from it!
project 26 has been restored! here it is: babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015055835659&view=1up&seq=398
If you wanted to you could have made a carbon copy of that or any copyrighted tool without issue. The only time you would run into violating the copyright is if you tried to profit of the design itself. 👍👍
THANK YOU...for sharing.
I have been told before not to clean chips with compressed air. Every place I ever worked they used, guess what, compressed air. I have tried using a vacuum but it doesn't work very well, how do you clean chips?
Chip brush & vacuum. Yes--its true that air works better & everyone uses air
20:24...the fact that it's leaded steel, makes a difference, too...
The WIGGLER would have been a good name for a Batman Villain
not2fast4u2c kinda like the riddler with a speech impediment?
Somebody at Starrett send Lyle a new catalog! He's selling your products every day!
I love your vids they bring back the good ol days in this shop I own now ! I wish everyone in this shop had your knowledge ! if your ever close to Batesville Arkansas stop in and see us at Custom CNC thanks john clouse
Parabéns ótima ideia, gostei do recartilhador tem um vídeo sobre ele
$5,000.00 worth of machinery to make $15.00 worth of tools. Yep, that's us.
🤣🤣🤣
Thanks,
John
Is that a wiggler in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
Nobody ever explains how a wiggler (edge-finder) works. They always say, "It goes like this, and doodley-doo, and that's how it works."
I looked up the text book.....200 to 300 bucks on Amazon, wow. Mrpete do you have any suggestions on a good book for let's say, an intermediate beginner? Mostly for lathe and mill layout type stuff, not necessarily the operation of them. Thank you for your great videos!! I feel like I'm watching my father in the shop again when I watch you....except you have a bit more patience haha!
Look for the little STARRETT apprentice book on ebay
mrpete222 Thank you! I will look that up.
11:58 - Hey baby, you wanna see my wiggler?
Heh! Just like being in shop class!
Thanks for sharing sir..
I know General Jimmy Stewart when I hear him...
PROOF:
1. Your folks owned a hardware store...that makes sense!
2. You know How The West Was Won...code for You know how... the WWW...
3. You can't stay away from making movies!
4. You are definitely the man who knows too much with no time for comedy when you're in the shop AND you think it's seventh heaven. It's a wonderful life and you and your lathe were just made for each other.
You are our shopworn angel bringing us the greatest show on earth!
wink wink. your secret is safe with me General.!!!!
Stay safe and keep the movies rolling...
Thanks--LOL. I really enjoyed that.
And I really enjoy a tot of Sailor Jerry Rum, sitting back and and getting some tips off my mate, The General. Cheers. (From Australia)
THANKS for watching
yep going to have to make this one
did you get the rotary table apart?
Pretty much--video on it in 1 month
I thought I recognised that name Don Bailey. I just saw a couple of his videos.
Suburban Tool.
You bring me to suspense then the last second........ will see you in part 2....... wait what.......oh man
Our shop teacher was apparently always drunk.
Thanks for sharing.
Welcome to the club, I walk into next room and forget why I went in there in the first place.
lol
I like the tool mistakes, don't matter were not being graded by no one but or self's / ask how good do I want it
Отличное видео . так же сделаю!
Mr Pete, I hope you are ok. Normally you have the next part of your videos uploaded in the next day or two and I think it's been 4 or 5 days since you posted part 1. I don't mean to sound impatient, I'm just concerned about you and hope everything is OK. Thanks for all your videos, they are a tremendous help.
I'm fine--toly is ailing for the drawings-thats the holdup. But pt 2 on fri
mrpete222 ok, good to hear, looking forward to many more of your videos.
"do not turn the machine on " LOL!!!!!
that catalog is as old as me! May of '99!
Everyone else of Interest, sorry, but please pay attention to this man on account he's one of the ones who wrote the books on the stuff. For your own favor
I have that book.
does any one know of a channel or a place I can go and see or copy projects in tools and useful things to make blue prints and so on .
Sorry
all I am doing is making my own tools that's all
I agree with Brad below
i wish you were my shop teach in highschool
I wish I was also
Feirer and Tatro's book "Machine Tool Metalworking" is free online, here: babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015055835659&view=2up&seq=1
Thank you very much. I guess I am really surprised that it is available free. I will mention this in my next issue of this and that
mrpete222 you’re welcome. I had found it earlier, but some of the project pages were missing. Now it is a complete copy.
The $5000 worth of tools I could probably swing... It's the property to place those tools on, that I can't afford. :/
we are older than Methuselah and blinder than him too!!!!
Just don't carry it in your pocket at the airport.
Ye! All it requires is $4000 worth of tools and a workshop....
How to use a Wiggler ua-cam.com/video/RhtBdar4iVg/v-deo.html
Isnt against the law to buy imports???😂😂😂😂
Its going to be I hope!!
I hope not; that'll price a lot of things out of the hands of the working folk.
I'm gonna get my boat paddle out and stir some... "stuff".... Long sleeves on a lathe???
(hee hee... safety Nazi...)
you didn't have your pointer running true.
sorry I had to. lol
I see you're up to your Shenanigans again. ;)
DUDE we don't need to watch the all part of every thing, we get it short the videos
Can you please correct the spelling of the word guard in your intro title. It pains my inner triggerin's
I stopped watching at $5000 worth of tools. I don't know who you are aiming these videos at, but if they are novice enough to need them, why would they have a complete machine shop in the first place, notwithstanding affording it., At 72, having shops since I was 16, I've NEVER had resources to afford more than $2k in tools over my entire life.This is plain assinine.
Martin Walters just because you were never able to afford an expensive hobby doesn't mean nobody else can either. Also, what kind of shop did you have that only had 2k worth of tools? I was an auto mechanic for about 12 years and by my 4th year I had well over 20k in tools.