Sylvia Plath didn't glamorize mental illness, she wrote about her experiences beautifully. There's a difference between glamorizing something and writing about an issue poetically.
Even if she is poetry for just teenage girls, why do we discredit things liked by teenage girls? They are people.... and a MASSIVE demographic. I hate that things are so often discredited as soon they become popular among teenage girls.
Some additional info on Plath's posthumous reception and her struggle with male oppression in her work: the original manuscript for Ariel was completed and ready for publication before she died, and Plath left it with the intent that it should be published as she had formed it. However, it was discovered by her ex-husband, who decided to edit it, rearrange it, and remove poems that cast him in a bad light (their marriage was far from a happy one, even before his affairs). The way it was rearranged also changed the tone of the whole book from one of tentative hope for life at the end to one that seemed to confirm the hopelessness that drove her to suicide. THAT is the version of Ariel that almost everyone knew for years after her death, and the one that is still found most often in libraries and schools today. It's only in recent years that the original version of Ariel has come into print, and the difference between the two is really amazing. Even in death, Plath struggled to escape the control of men in her life who would censor her words and het work. I'm not saying this as hate on men, but considering the running theme of oppression and struggle for autonomy in her poetry, I think this is an important aspect of the culture that surrounded her, even after death, and it should be acknowledged.
@@EsotericOccultist "since they cant compete fairly" the picture you paint of women is reductive and false but even assuming it were true what would your solution be?? to lay down and die?? op is talking about men silencing plath and twisting her legacy to their satisfaction but you're more concerned about women "leeching off of men"
As a young adult who struggles with depression, I have a fondness for Sylvia's work. To dismiss her simply because you've never experienced the crippling debilitation depression causes, is ignorant, insulting and lazy. Judge her as an "emo of her generation" or however you like, but she was honest, obviously in pain, yet she released that torment into striking words that have resonated with millions of people for over fifty years. Not an easy thing to do when you feel dead inside. So, critics, what have you done lately?
Alexandra Meininger It's true. But there's also underlying misogyny. Ted Hughes abused Plath (noted in her own writings). There's a protective attitude that literary circles have for Hughes (esp. in Britain) & unfortunately it's shaped our perception of her as a little girl or superficial. Some of the book covers for her works show a woman putting on makeup or a photo of her when she was blonde & in a swimsuit.
I hope you will be cured of depression. And I'm sorry if i would offend you to say this, but i think it is a fitting brutal footnote for a brutally beautiful poet
My dad says he doesn't like that I read Sylvia Plath, since I've also dealt with depression, self-injury, and suicide attempts. But her poetry doesn't promote those activities; it simply explores them. Having my same morbid feelings and thought processes thrown back at me by Plath's work is one of the most healing processes I've experienced.
So girls have a man ally, what is wrong with that ! You need a village to raise a boy AND a GIRL ! We matter, our sensitivity makes us weak if misused and makes us great when we work with it, some men understand and want to raise us higher !
Nikki Noir CC:L totally reshaped Frankenstein for me. Lit grad, and we didn't talk about half of the backstory that you used to shade all that perspective. We don't need this for some kind of cliff notes, we want this for new and interesting ideas about classics. PLEASE do more Crash Course Literature.
Hey, there’s worse stereotypes to fall into! That being said, don’t like/dislike something just because people think you should/shouldn’t be into it. sincerely, another teenage girl
Meghan S I assume you’re no longer a teenage girl and are now a young woman. I still have a profound and deep love for her. Do you still feel the same way? Have you expanded? I’d love to hear back about this.
The "I am enormous" is probably not a feminist statement (at least not only). Sylvia Plath was Bipolar. She wasn't allowing herself to become enormous with happiness, she was being over taken by it. A feeling of being enormous is one of the most tell tale signs of a Bipolar Manic episode. Her writing of feeling stupidly happy is also in line with a Manic episode. While in a Mania many will often feel so happy that you experience yourself as indestructable and because of that you - to use her own word - act stupidly. Sylvia Plaths Bipolar disorder is the reason for her writing so much and being so active so close to her suicide. As John says she saw herself as living in two extremes, periods of extreme highs and of extreme lows. This is how Bipolar works. You have Manic episodes and Depressive episodes and a kind if lull or stable period inbetween where you flatten out while 'switching' between the episodes (The length and intensity of the stages vary). Sylvia Plath was most likely triggerd by her separation and went into a Manic episode. For people with Bipolar it is when coming down from a Manic episode and entering a Depressive one, or when starting to come up from a depressive episode that you are most likely to attempt or commit suicide. Sylvia was on the way down from a Manic episode and the reality of her situation very likely only made the depression she was entering worse. It is very likely that that is the reason for her tragic and preventable suicide. So while it is very possible and not wrong to read the "enormous" and "stupidly happy" as an act of social rebellion against female oppression, I dont think it is - at least not fully. It os more likely her explanation of the feeling you have while being Manic with happiness due to her Bipolar depression.
Well I don’t think we’ll ever truly know since doctors back then thought that the solution to everyone’s psychological problems was jolting them with electricity. Sylvia being one of these people, I’m certain there was no tests actually done to prove this theory. However, everyone has highs and lows. Bipolar people’s are just higher highs and lower lows
Kreaper MLG i agree with you, but I feel like whatever the source, that poem is pretty against the gender roles of the time. Publishing that poem, being proud of that pome, could be considered feminist, even inadvertently
Vincent Van Gogh made his best work when he was in moments of recovery, people need to stop twisting the “depressed genius artist” stereotype in general. Artists create beautiful things *in spite* of mental illness, not because of it.
As a fairly enthusiastic Plath fangirl, I was equal parts excited and wary when I clicked on this--wary because so many people reduce her to just a depressive, tragic poet. It's frustrating to see such a brilliant and impassioned writer so often dismissed because of that. I'd have to say my favorite piece of hers is "The Rabbit Catcher," which is utterly heartbreaking and powerful in the context of her life. "And we, too, had a relationship-- Tight wires between us, Pegs too deep to uproot, and a mind like a ring Sliding shut on some quick thing, The constriction killing me also."
I did my Senior Thesis on Plath & was delighted to see Crash Course's excellent video on her work. It is dismaying that many write-off Plath as an emo, suicide poet when her work is, in actuality, very complex, rife with symbolism. Much of this misconception is due to Ted Hughes' reordering of the poems in Plath's last book, Ariel. He omits poems, such as "Purdah" which ends on a note of female empowerment (Clytemnestra slaying Agamemnon), and adds, as the penultimate poem, "Edge", which begins "The woman is perfected/Her dead//Body wears the smile of accomplishment." Plath's original ordering would have ended with her cycle of bee poems, culminating in "Wintering" in which the dormant bees re-emerge from their hive after winter, "The bees are flying. They taste the Spring." Plath was a poet of rebirth, not death. That's where she's misunderstood. Note the phoenix symbolism Green quotes from "Lady Lazarus", "Out of the ash/I rise with my red hair/And I eat men like air." Rebirth. Empowerment.
Plath's "romanticizing" of death and self-injury, and the manner in which she expresses them, is exactly why her poetry has helped me cope with my own mental illnesses and comforted me in times when I felt so determined to take my own life. Great vid btw!
+samusaran311 exactly. This guy doesn't get it because he doesn't relate to it. This is what makes Plath's poetry so powerful, and it should not be criticized, no matter how uncomfortable it makes the reader. In fact, this video was extremely underwhelming. Great poetry is rarely happy.
@@zingzach no, you dont get it, just because you feel better consuming content that talks about mental illness, depression, self harm etc. Doesnt mean everyone has the same response to it as you, i dont have it for example, it doesnt make me feel better, it triggers anxiety. It's clear that people have many different reactions to susceptive content.
I sort of wish you would have dove a little deeper into the abusive relationship Sylvia held with her father and explained one of her last poems "Daddy." Personally, I think it's her best work and I was disjointed in not seeing it so much as mentioned.
Ancient Aztec poetry (written by Nazahualcoyotl, the king of Texcoco): All the world is a tomb from which nothing escapes, Nothing is so perfect that it does not fall and disappear... What was yesterday, today is no more, And what lives today cannot hope to exist tomorrow. I, Nezahualcoyotl, ask this: Is it true one really lives on the earth? Not forever on earth, Only a little while here. Though it be jade it falls apart, Though it be gold it wears away, Though it be quetzal plumage it is torn asunder. Not forever on earth, Only a little while here. (excerpted from "Native Mesoamerican Spirituality")
Asked my husband why he was skulking around watching me watch a video about Sylvia Plath....his response was "because John Green is talking about it..." Love it.
Regarding the ups and downs, it is a common theory and Sylvia Plath was bipolar, and these ups were her manic phases. It is also thought that her sudden burst of creativity came from a manic phase, since mania tends to beget creative productivity, when channeled right, at least.
billygoatideas Sylvia Plath may also have had an abortion. It's been quite a while since I read the book "Her Husband" which is about the marriage of Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes but this is my best recollection and you may want to read the whole book which is very good. Shortly before her death Sylvia made a list in her journal of things she had experienced and among them she wrote "abortion" which people have believed was a reference to her miscarriage/spontaneous abortion. Many years later a man (I can't recall his name) who knew Sylvia wrote a memoir and in it told about making a crossing on the R.M.S. Queen Elizabeth and unexpectedly meeting Sylvia on board and I believe she was sailing alone. The author of the memoir was quite clear about when this happened. Plath biographers had had no knowledge of Sylvia Plath returning to America at this time. The author of "Her Husband" brought up the possibility that maybe Sylvia returned to the U.S. to terminate a pregnancy. My recollection is rather vague and I hope I'm not creating misinformation but I recommend the book "Her Husband" for those who may be interested in getting more specific information. Though "Her Husband" is excellent reading the author did make a couple of mistakes: there are a couple of references to Sylvia Plath traveling aboard the Queen Elizabeth 2. Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes also sailed aboard the first Queen Elizabeth; the QE2 began service in 1969, six years after Sylvia Plath died.
She wrote a poem about her miscarriage called "Parliament hill fields" it's one of my favourite poems. There's a line near the beginning where she says "Nobody can tell what I lack" and although i'm aware she's referring to her unborn child I feel as though everybody can relate to that feeling of emptiness. You should check it out!
As an aspiring author and a literature fanatic, it was really heartfelt when Lana sung about relating to her. Sylvia was an amazing, tragic and iconic poet.
my therapist suggested i read sylvia plath and i began to write again. it is not glamorous, depression. but, you have to admit, there is a certain stubborn beauty about it that causes you to cringe.
John Green, I think you would be an absolutely amazing professor. I'm dead serious. You are brilliant with literature, you make me fall in love with it over and over again.
I think the "What a thrill" line applies more to the fact that she hates domestic work (cutting onions) and for once, to do something other (cut her finger instead) is compelling, even if it is self-harm.
Hi John. Question: Are you planning to do a video about any Argentinian or at least latinamerican author? I'm from Argentina and I love that kind of literature, it's my favorite. SO, please think about it. I give you some of my favorite: Silvina ocampo, Julio Cortázar, Jorge Luis Borges, Gabriel García Marquéz. Or any one else, I love everyone, it's just that I can't think of any other name XD Best wishes, Ignacio.
Maryjo Leiva Of courseee!!!!! But don't forget abaout his poetry, is amazing too. His poems are, after all, the soul of all his literature. Bur the short stories are incredible
Can we all collectively agree to stop saying "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem"? It trivializes the emotions and mental states of those who are or have been suicidal and it is somewhat condescending, as though you, the bearer of platitudes, know more about the individual's situation than that individual. While I do not believe suicide is necessarily the proper response, neither do I believe that this platitude is necessarily true. The problem may not be temporary. The immensity of the problem may, in the perception of the one contemplating suicide, far outweigh any potential gain even if the problem were to be alleviated relatively soon. There are a number of factors that this does not consider. What of the elderly, who have lived their life? What of those who sacrifice themselves to rescue others, or the strong statements of others (the monks who set themselves on fire to protest a corrupt Vietnamese regime, Socrates declaration of the true and unrelenting life at its end). I am NOT saying that young people, especially teenagers, should consider suicide a serious option, because there are other factors (chemical imbalances that disproportionately affect teenagers, a lack of accurate perception of the future, etc) that are leading to suicidal thoughts, but it does not strike me as particularly helpful to declare "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" as though that is a valid response or deterrent.
I was planning on saying pretty much exactly this. I agree that suicide sucks and is not a good answer (though in terms of things like critical, untreatable illness I'm less sure), the fact of the matter is that not all problems are temporary. The platitude "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" trivializes or ignores those people who's problems are, in fact, permanent. Can't we find something better to say?
You're missing the point. Whatever is driving someone to suicide will be, theoretically, solvable; death is not. Death will always be infinitely more permanent than anything it is compared with. It doesn't trivialise anything; there's no "it can't be that bad" going on here- it's that death will never be worth it, and that's never said enough.
As someone with several suicide attempts and hospitalizations, I found comfort in knowing that my despair was temporary. I'm all for a better wording of this phrase, but some find comfort in knowing that these awful feelings won't last.
MargaretMaryMeg I also have several suicide and hospitalizations in my past, and I find the words hurtful. I also have problems that are not, in the least bit, temporary. There are ways of dealing with them and I do not believe that suicide is the right choice, but the problems themselves will never, ever, go away.
I was there to witness my friend slice his head off under a freight train.If I had known his intentions as he was walking towards the tracks, I would have tackled him and held him there. This was clearly not a cry for help. he wanted to die, but i will be damned if I do nothing if someone is in need of help and understanding. Death is not the right answer for everyone else involved. The person is gone but leaves behind all the people who cared about him/her to suffer. I make no claims to understand what others go through because I can only ever be inside my own brain, but the truth is that instead of judging others we should be more understanding. I wish we truly took mental health issues seriously. So many people self medicate and because they do are called criminals........but when a doctor prescribes something even more horrendous we call it medication. Freedom means being able to choose what you put into your body!!! We need for people to have REAL access to the care they need.
It sounds like she is not only suffering from some sort of Bi-polar Disorder but describes it in great detail. When she is down she describes the explosions, something she longs both longs for and finds intimidating. She is motivated to feel as she once did and yet when she is up it almost feels as if there is to much, as if she is excessively drained and both happy and productive and yet not necessarily of her own volition. And to someone with dramatic ups and down death and suicide doesn't seem like a permanent solution to a temporary problem but a permanent solution for a endlessly revolving door of depression and uncontrollable energy,
I really love this series. I'm a science major in college and I don't get to take literature classes, and am confined to my room most days, so getting to read and analyze great novels with you, one of my favorite authors, gives me the greatest joy. It would make me, and I'm sure a lot of other people, very happy if you would continue with this series. Best, Cal
I'm the same situation- I don't get to literature classes- so this is really useful because they talk about great books and speak about them in a way that I can relate their content to my own life.
I'm reading Plath's The Colossus and Other Poems, and it's so intensely visual that reading it is like going to an art museum. I love it and feel dazed.
"People who suffer from crippling depression don't create anything." This is false. Sylvia Plath wrote massive amounts of poetry up to the day she killed herself.
awinters039 If so then that's kindo f a meaningless things to say, huh? Especially when Plath apparently didn't even experience that "paralyzing depression"
I suffer from depression, and I'm productive both as a worker and as a creator. Depression affects the volume of the work I can put out but it doesn't stop me from working. Obviously paralyzing ANYTHING stops you from doing something, but that state is an effect of the Paralyzing and not an effect of the depression.
It's great that you put that little excerpt about suicide in there. So many teenagers watch this, its really awesome that youre using your power as an educator for good, and for more than just shoving facts in our heads.
When I was a junior in high school, I was in the public library when this book flew off the top shelf and hit me on the head. It was Plath's Ariel. I asked my English teacher if she had heard of Plath. She hadn't but I checked out Ariel again and again because it had chosen me and I thought it was very good.
Dear John and all the CC team: For a glorious couple of weeks I have enjoyed Crash Course Literature along with my morning coffee. For those few short minutes my life experience was lifted beyond the ordinary because of your efforts. I assure you that this subject matter is warmly appreciated. Thank you. Make more!
3:51 to 4:49 Why do I need to come back and listen to this so often? I suppose I'm glad I am able to come back, glad it was written in the first place. Thank you, John.
Also... in the midst of depression, it's often hard to see a way out, or believe that it will ever get better. And knowing, abstractly, that your life is actually quite nice compared to many people's, and that you really "shouldn't" feel terrible often does not help one feel better at all... in fact, it can make someone feel worse, because it adds in a guilt element to the depression. It's a terrible thing, how a person's mind and emotions can betray them.
Sartori The only way I get through any sadness is thinking about all those who have worse than me. I think in my case, it helps me to realize how lucky I am in ways I cannot see. After reading your comment, I realized that I should never advice this method to anyone as this may add to their guilt. So thanks.
I am so glad you did her. I have recently become obsessed with her, and I love how you discussed her in such a wonderful way not putting her down for her death poetry but just putting it as it was. Thanks Crash Course!
Suicide is the end of suffering and pain. That's why people do it. Not because they are trying to solve a problem, temporary or permanent. They want the pain to stop and they don't see the pain ever going away. And they are correct, the pain never goes away. If you can learn to live with the pain, you survive, if you can't, you suicide.
IRS puts me on hold for about an hour so far. Thanks God for crash course. I am still willing to live after the morning passed me by, Still on hold but glad to had taking crash literature course on the poems of this great woman who left us too early but gave us so much food for though. Mil gracias Silvia!
depression isn't a temporary problem for some people though? For people like Plath depression is a lifelong illness and it's cruel to force those people to stay alive when they are so intensely unhappy and suffering so horribly.
depression isn't 24/7. just like happiness or anger isn't 24/7. an emotion or feeling perhaps repeats and stays around for a very long time but it's not permanent. i speak from experience so please don't haze me lol. i know everyone has their own experiences as well but i believe that depression isn't a "forever and always" thing. it does suck when it takes over most of your life and the happiness is so small and fleeting. but still... it's just something very personal and i can't say i 100% blame people for their own suicide but i do wish they would keep going for their own sake. for the unknown. they're the only ones who can commit their own suicide. and they're the only ones who can save themselves, too. you don't have to "force" someone to live, just encourage them to live. the choice will be theirs at the end of the day no matter what happens. i do wish Plath had kept on living. I believe she would have overcome it. She seemed pretty cool and had a beautiful genuine smile! (doing a school project on plath atm)
feminiedisaster Your experiences aren't the same as everyone elses. For a lot of people it doesn't stop, it doesn't get better. There's no moment of reprieve. You don't see them because they're usually kept in hospital at that point, but theyre there.
Some forms of deep depression come from the inability to manufacture neurotransmitters such as serotonin, leading to the impossibility to feel anything positive and some negative , some pills such as Prozac block some of the re up take channels for serotonin , leaving them in the synapse for longer , giving the effect of more serotonin , which helps with depression. If we gave Plath the correct medication, love and care maybe she would still be alive to day
feminiedisaster (look at the other reply i made ) you have to remember that depression isn't sadness or an emotion , it's a lack of emotions and maybe to you this is surpassable but some people literally cannot manufacture enough of the correct neurotransmitters be able to glide out of depression.
When John says "Her career was cut short, and I mourn all the many wonderful books we could have had" I immedeatly thought of a Kendrick Lamar line from 'i' a song about expression/depression "What do you want from me and my scars?"
Thank you for introducing me to the poetry of Sylvia Plath. I can now say from experience, rather than inexperience, that her work is boring, emo, dribble that's promoting self hate and is not worth my time. And before anyone jumps me for saying so, you don't have to have the same opinion as me. Art doesn't require conformity or agreement. Heck it doesn't even require understanding in many cases. This is but one man's opinion that I alone hold. Hold your own opinion with pride, but do not attempt to deprive me of my own.
You're more than entitled to your opinion, but it's pointless if you can't back it up. A brief John Green video isn't going to teach you anything worthwhile about her poetry.
I'm not certain you paid attention to the video. It does have depressing lows, but it also has joyous happiness. And as a critic, opinions SHOULD be backed up.
Objective assessments should be backed up. Opinions need not be. Her work bored me, please do tell, how do you back up the opinion of boredom? You can't, it just is what it is.
As a major Sylvia Plath fan I don't care much to call her poetry works of feminism but instead her works were adopted by feminism. She came from a time where the women's movement for equality was at full force and feminism was this new big thing, and generally feminists care for women who've lead horrid, battered lives whether it be physical or mental, and Sylvia's writing was just that, battered, and it all came from a bright and brilliant woman. They saw this in her and took her after her death under their wing. Sylvia wrote just to express her thoughts about everything around and inside her, her mind's eye never blinked.
Crash Course Literature is so amazing. Every time I watch it I feel myself falling in love with literature even more. The quotes you guys choose are just incredible.
I deeply enjoy the unique, pseudo-philosophical notion of both talking with the past self, and the way it is done. Such as "Let's actually read some poems before we trying to convince everyone how smart we are." It, intentionally or not, shows the flow of change, evolution of the individual and, in my opinion most important to the series on Literature, how ideals and life style can change through education and study.
The idea of suicide is rather interesting to me. I have depression and crippling anxiety so it is often a very temping prospect. I do not fear death at all, the idea of absolutely nothing sounds like a huge relief sometimes. But I never consider it as something I might actually do because it would be a terrible thing to do to the people who care about me. I don't blame people who take their own lives, I understand them quite well, but it is still a terrible thing to do.
I understand the idea of it being a relief from anxiety and depression, as I have suffered both. It really can be tempting. But if you're like me, you'll have certain times where you can think clearly enough to realize that while you need rest from your anxiety, the eternal rest is not the best option. It really is an overtly huge response to a problem that can be managed much more productively.
I recently finished reading The Bell Jar today and I really enjoyed. Not much happened in the plot (not very much anyway) but I couldn't put the book down and every time I did manage to draw my eyes away from the page, I couldn't stop thinking about the story and Esther's problems. The book was easy to read and understand yet it did move me and I would happily re read it :) I'd love to get hold of some of her poems now...
Thank you for covering Sylvia Plath! I'm a 35 year old man and she is one of my favorite poets, such beautiful yet sad and dark imagery. Most teachers I ever had didn't want to cover her work. I really appreciate your interpretations of the various works, very insightful. Her poems can be fairly strange and hard to decipher. Thanks again, fantastic video!
I really liked your point towards the end, that we are "called to attentiveness, even when it's painful." That really resonated with me. Also, your me-from-the-past discussion seems particularly pertinant considering some of the recent criticism against TFiOS and Looking for Alaska.
I didn't see you mention this, but it's quite important to her poems and other writings. After Plath first attempted suicide, she was utterly shocked that she had survived; so ten years later she felt as if it was a debt to try again. She was married to Hughes at the time when she decided to repay the debt once again by crashing her car. Another ten years later, she was expecting an editor (I believe) early in the morning, so she prepared everything a day before by placing bread and milk on her children's table and going to bed. She woke up early that morning only to open her gas stove and pass out with a note that read "Call my doctor once you find me". The editor banged on the door which didn't even wake the man that lived above Plath. They found her later on, already dead. Sylvia lived a life of metaphors, and that's what made her interesting. RIP Sylvia Plath.
What is perhaps the most important aspect of these videos (of the Crash Course Literature series) is their introduction of elements into literary discussion which broaden the perception of a potential reader without rounding-out or encapsulating an entire opinion or viewpoint. You are, as such, cracking open a door to a room, within which a curious glow pulls the reader deeper into exploratory thought. Keep it up, you're doing good work!
Oh my goodness I love Sylvia Plath's work. Lady Lazarus is my favorite from her. Her use of enjambment, and repetition blows my mind! Thank you for doing this video!
I've heard her reading her own poetry. And honestly I thought that when I was listening to her I could hear in her voice not only the genius, but also the madness.
Sad Side Note : After Plath's suicide, the woman Ted Hughes was having an affair with were married and had a child. In 1969, the second Mrs. Hughes took her own life and the life of that child in the same manner Sylvia took her life. Makes you wonder what kind of monster was Ted Hughes??!!
Thank you for the open letter, John. As someone who has read The Bell Jar, written a research paper on it and has dealt with depression firsthand, I applaud you. Also the TFIOS movie was great. DFTBA
As someone who has lived through depression, tried to commit suicide before I was 10, and now lives in physical pain 24/7 from multiple injuries. Saying suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, is woefully simplistic. It borders on telling a child "cut your nose to spite your face why don't you". It has an air of saying it's an immature decision. Pointing to examples of depressed people who didn't commit suicide, and went onto achieve great things is a kin to saying "they were grown up enough to see through their temporary problems, you should do the same.". I think suicide sucks, and wish we had a better society all around. One where we have better access to mental health (and not just doctors prescribing meds for kickbacks), better access to health care in general so people wouldn't have to live in pain. A way to put a roof over everyone's head, and food in their bellies so they don't feel stressed and become depressed. Heck, I wish our society wasn't so vain, and obsessed with material possessions, as that causes depression in some. Those things would be great, but we aren't there yet. We can't help everyone yet, though we should try. Telling people to grow up (as it sounded like),mor comparing a very personal tragedy to noted figures comes off as flippant. I know there are others on here who disagree, those who have and haven't suffered. That's part of the problem with his message. It's hit or miss, and if it misses, as it has with some it can do harm. What good is a message that can do harm as well as good? I know John had the best of intentions, but his words did hurt people. Make them feel stigmatized, trivialized and judged. That's where the rub lies, not in those he helped, but in the few (and I hope it's only a few)Newhouse were hurt by his words.
I HAVE read Sylvia Plath poems and tried to dissect each of them. Instead of first going into the details of her infamous life before reading the poems, I found that the best way to fully appreciate not just her poetry but also to honor her life is to first read her poems and through them, learn piece-by-piece what her life was like and how it affected her writing.
Depression is one thing I truly hate. One of the founding fathers had depression because of life being the worst despite being the greatest president he became before his assassination. I had depression after my parents were seperate, turning my life upside down, thinking of killing myself and going many times to the Obamacare facility to be treated by demons who poisoned me to die without peace, until God and Jesus came into my life and told me, "not to commit yourself to enter a world of fire, darkness and death", because I realize how my depression, how my anxiety came into my life, and there were three factions who wanted me dead without mercy and the three were capitalism, feminism and terrorism, the three evil factions who now rule with an iron fist to hurt people who are poor, men who are weak and hurt anyone who is not strong enough and then kill themselves to death. Those who haunted my life in the name of terrorism were radical young people who are to be proclaimed as terrorists, the creators of hell and darkness under Satan, their most trustworthy father in the other world full of evil. Now, I no longer have depression and I am now currently a Roman Catholic, a baptized Christian who now has the objectives he must complete. Since the martyr Elliot Rodger killed himself because of b....s who killed him for being insane, no, he died a hero and his words have awakened how brutal, corrupt and devious b....s have become nowadays and capitalism, ever since the financial crisis of 2008, I now realize, whoever has the highest debt should be the one who has to be punished and that enemy is the American Empire, the highest debtor in the world, failing to take care what's financially responsible, that led to poverty, inequality and violent actions to be in effect, killing innocents without an amount of wealth to become happy. Radical young terrorists, my generation, they prove to be a threat than the last generation who were moderate and safe to work with, now currently swarming with extravagance, technology and acts of violence they commit and get away with the crimes they commit is unjust, unrighteous and mostly, unconstitutional. These three factions or demons must be rid of for the world to be safe. Only two people are on my side and they are God and his beloved son, Jesus Christ. They are helping me to spread the truth, to spread what the enemy is truly capable of. I must take the responsibility and I must, not for myself but for all people who must learn and spread to fight not for evil but for equality, courage and security. I must do what the heavens want me to do is the right thing.
Interesting video, however I disagree with the sentiment that suicide is a permanent response to a temporary problem. There are many people who are terminally ill, and allowing them to end their suffering can be an appropriate solution to a very permanent problem.
John Green, you are doing a service to the world. I thought your literature videos couldn't compare to the history ones but these are great! Thanks so much for helping me and my students better understand the world in general.
Dear John Green, Thank you for your exploratory, humble, and reasonable approach to all things worthwhile and interesting. I love your thoughts on history, current events, and abstract concepts; but I'm starting to think that most of all, I love your thoughts on poetry. So, thank you for being the English teacher from afar that I could never have in person. And finally, thank you for believing that teenagers have something to contribute to this world without taking them too seriously. Best wishes! Ellie Brower
Thank you John Green for reminding me that people often suffer horrible pitfalls because they're on the path to something great. In the words of someone dear: "You can tell how amazing the future holds for you by the level of opposition that you face"
You know, John ... Please don't moralize on depression. Using great poets and presidents as examples of things someone might do if they don't commit suicide is manipulative, and it's really nobody's place to arbitrarily make that call. Just please don't. It's not that simple. I've been watching your videos for years but I can't get on board with that. It's right up there with "But have you just tried being HAPPY?"
Had crippling bouts of depression myself, and I think John Green nailed it: he wasn't moralising on depression, he was moralising on suicide. They are not the same thing. The one may or may not lead to the other. He's saying that help is available. Which goes nowhere near "have you tried just bing happy?"
Martin Hatchuel The rest of my comment made it very clear that I was specifically talking about his comments on suicide. I don't appreciate the kind of guilt trips and foolish hypotheticals that he talked about in his open letter; I get them all the time and they don't help at all. Most people who want to die probably don't care at all about what poetry they mighty *hypothetically* write or whether they'll *hypothetically* be president. Why would they? They just want to stop hurting. They want it to go away. You may have had depression yourself, but I've been suffering with suicidal ideation / obsession for 14 years, and whenever someone uses that kind of trite manipulation I just stop trying to talk to them about it. It's impersonal and doesn't address the sick person's problems.
As someone who has also suffered suicidal bouts of depression, I think you need to back away slowly. Green wasn't being trite, he was telling a truth - suicide ends potential. If his quick message helps someone reach for a hotline rather than a knife, I'm fine with it.
I don't "need" to do anything. As someone who this would apply to, my thoughts on this aren't any less valid than yours just because you disagree with me or because I'm disagreeing with someone you like. When role models touch on topics like this, they need to be aware of how they sound, and I explained how he sounded and explained why I was saying so. Don't invalidate my experience to defend him.
Amber Englebert A suicidal person does not care what their "potential" is. They just want to die and stop the pain they are going to. What COULD happen doesn't make them feel any better.
I read The Bell Jar a few months ago and I loved it. It was relatable in the way that the way the main character thought about her day to day life, how it all feels distorted and hyper-aware sometimes.
I suffer with crushing depression, have had episodes of suicidal intent and action and her poetry is not really saying death is beautiful or glorious but instead it marks how sweetly poisonous it "smells" it draws you close with it's perfect illusion, you play with the idea, cause it looks beautiful.
I love that whether I need help with a Sociology course, reviewing for a History test, and now trying to understand poetry for an English research paper, Crash course always has a vid for the subject I need! Thanks CC for helping me not fail since middle school 😅
What happened to your arm? I see some bruises on it. Anyway thanks for the Transformers G1 references. And now I get the reference in that MST3K college short.
John Thank you for the Open Letter on suicide. If there is one message I could get through to anybody who is thinking that this is the answer it would be "YOU WILL BE MISSED!!!" There are people out there that do love you and care about you.To those who know some one thinking about suicide please let them know how much you love and care about them. Let them know they are not alone.
CATBUG!!! Yes in video about one of the most influential and eloquent poets in history and advocate for gender equality I noticed a popularized fictional multi-dimensional hybrid character, I have no apologies
Speaking of poetry and depression... I wrote this a few months ago and have yet to share it with anyone so here goes: I'm writing to say something But I want you to hear nothing because this is the world through my eyes, this is my life, and these are my lies. If you're broken like me Maybe you see my perspective, And maybe you know the respective depression that pours through these lenses. I'm scared of my own future I can't accept the past I can't live in the moment, Time just moves too fast. And nobody knows what I feel Above my throat, Behind my eyes. And none of you will ever know who I am in my disguise But that's alright. I'll never know you either.
Sylvia Plath didn't glamorize mental illness, she wrote about her experiences beautifully. There's a difference between glamorizing something and writing about an issue poetically.
Anonymous he did not say that
Well said, cheers!
Aka, confessional poetry
Even if she is poetry for just teenage girls, why do we discredit things liked by teenage girls? They are people.... and a MASSIVE demographic. I hate that things are so often discredited as soon they become popular among teenage girls.
Some additional info on Plath's posthumous reception and her struggle with male oppression in her work: the original manuscript for Ariel was completed and ready for publication before she died, and Plath left it with the intent that it should be published as she had formed it. However, it was discovered by her ex-husband, who decided to edit it, rearrange it, and remove poems that cast him in a bad light (their marriage was far from a happy one, even before his affairs). The way it was rearranged also changed the tone of the whole book from one of tentative hope for life at the end to one that seemed to confirm the hopelessness that drove her to suicide. THAT is the version of Ariel that almost everyone knew for years after her death, and the one that is still found most often in libraries and schools today. It's only in recent years that the original version of Ariel has come into print, and the difference between the two is really amazing. Even in death, Plath struggled to escape the control of men in her life who would censor her words and het work. I'm not saying this as hate on men, but considering the running theme of oppression and struggle for autonomy in her poetry, I think this is an important aspect of the culture that surrounded her, even after death, and it should be acknowledged.
AND, Ariel was originally to be titled Daddy, after of course her famous controversial poem "Daddy", but she decided against it.
+esotericoccultist
Thank you for letting everyone know what a women hater YOU are.
@@EsotericOccultist "since they cant compete fairly" the picture you paint of women is reductive and false but even assuming it were true what would your solution be?? to lay down and die?? op is talking about men silencing plath and twisting her legacy to their satisfaction but you're more concerned about women "leeching off of men"
Wow. Interesting information and insight!
MegaDrummerboy16 Right. i see misogyny
As a young adult who struggles with depression, I have a fondness for Sylvia's work. To dismiss her simply because you've never experienced the crippling debilitation depression causes, is ignorant, insulting and lazy. Judge her as an "emo of her generation" or however you like, but she was honest, obviously in pain, yet she released that torment into striking words that have resonated with millions of people for over fifty years. Not an easy thing to do when you feel dead inside.
So, critics, what have you done lately?
Alexandra Meininger It's true. But there's also underlying misogyny. Ted Hughes abused Plath (noted in her own writings). There's a protective attitude that literary circles have for Hughes (esp. in Britain) & unfortunately it's shaped our perception of her as a little girl or superficial. Some of the book covers for her works show a woman putting on makeup or a photo of her when she was blonde & in a swimsuit.
I hope you will be cured of depression. And I'm sorry if i would offend you to say this, but i think it is a fitting brutal footnote for a brutally beautiful poet
@SHELBY KRIEWALD eew. Hehehe? Qwucks?
This is me 4-years later telling you that you are absolutely spot-on!
Redcatrobe you sound angey
My dad says he doesn't like that I read Sylvia Plath, since I've also dealt with depression, self-injury, and suicide attempts. But her poetry doesn't promote those activities; it simply explores them. Having my same morbid feelings and thought processes thrown back at me by Plath's work is one of the most healing processes I've experienced.
Everytime I hit rockbottom reading plath's poetry and Kurt cobain's journals are one of the things that really help me
I may get shit for this, but I feel like John Green is the patron saint of sad teenage girls.
those of us that are happy are quite fond of him too.
I'm not a teenage girl, and I like and respect him.
I am a fairly happy teenager girl who is quite fond of John, although his writing does make me quite sad at times.
As a sad teenager in the past, i felt blessed by John Green xD
So girls have a man ally, what is wrong with that ! You need a village to raise a boy AND a GIRL ! We matter, our sensitivity makes us weak if misused and makes us great when we work with it, some men understand and want to raise us higher !
Dear John Green,
please give us more of Crash Course Literature.
Best wishes,
every Crash Course Literature viewer ever
I'd very much agree with that statement.
Best Wishes
Me who has read this comment.
Nikki Noir I support this statement as well.
Yes please! They help so much!
Nikki Noir CC:L totally reshaped Frankenstein for me. Lit grad, and we didn't talk about half of the backstory that you used to shade all that perspective.
We don't need this for some kind of cliff notes, we want this for new and interesting ideas about classics. PLEASE do more Crash Course Literature.
Pleaseeeeeeeee
As a teenage girl, I fall into the stereotype of loving Sylvia Plath's poetry.
Meghan S So basically you're not unique in any way.
EsotericOccultist Do you really hate women?
there’s nothing wrong with being a teenage girl and liking stuff.
Hey, there’s worse stereotypes to fall into! That being said, don’t like/dislike something just because people think you should/shouldn’t be into it.
sincerely,
another teenage girl
Meghan S I assume you’re no longer a teenage girl and are now a young woman. I still have a profound and deep love for her. Do you still feel the same way? Have you expanded? I’d love to hear back about this.
The "I am enormous" is probably not a feminist statement (at least not only). Sylvia Plath was Bipolar. She wasn't allowing herself to become enormous with happiness, she was being over taken by it. A feeling of being enormous is one of the most tell tale signs of a Bipolar Manic episode. Her writing of feeling stupidly happy is also in line with a Manic episode. While in a Mania many will often feel so happy that you experience yourself as indestructable and because of that you - to use her own word - act stupidly. Sylvia Plaths Bipolar disorder is the reason for her writing so much and being so active so close to her suicide. As John says she saw herself as living in two extremes, periods of extreme highs and of extreme lows. This is how Bipolar works. You have Manic episodes and Depressive episodes and a kind if lull or stable period inbetween where you flatten out while 'switching' between the episodes (The length and intensity of the stages vary). Sylvia Plath was most likely triggerd by her separation and went into a Manic episode. For people with Bipolar it is when coming down from a Manic episode and entering a Depressive one, or when starting to come up from a depressive episode that you are most likely to attempt or commit suicide. Sylvia was on the way down from a Manic episode and the reality of her situation very likely only made the depression she was entering worse. It is very likely that that is the reason for her tragic and preventable suicide. So while it is very possible and not wrong to read the "enormous" and "stupidly happy" as an act of social rebellion against female oppression, I dont think it is - at least not fully. It os more likely her explanation of the feeling you have while being Manic with happiness due to her Bipolar depression.
No it is thought she was bipolar, it is not a fact.
Yavex I mean, it is pretty clear to me (and I am bipolar). I've never felt more understood by anyone than while reading her
Well I don’t think we’ll ever truly know since doctors back then thought that the solution to everyone’s psychological problems was jolting them with electricity. Sylvia being one of these people, I’m certain there was no tests actually done to prove this theory. However, everyone has highs and lows. Bipolar people’s are just higher highs and lower lows
Kreaper MLG i agree with you, but I feel like whatever the source, that poem is pretty against the gender roles of the time. Publishing that poem, being proud of that pome, could be considered feminist, even inadvertently
Brendan O
Well said
Vincent Van Gogh made his best work when he was in moments of recovery, people need to stop twisting the “depressed genius artist” stereotype in general. Artists create beautiful things *in spite* of mental illness, not because of it.
As a fairly enthusiastic Plath fangirl, I was equal parts excited and wary when I clicked on this--wary because so many people reduce her to just a depressive, tragic poet. It's frustrating to see such a brilliant and impassioned writer so often dismissed because of that.
I'd have to say my favorite piece of hers is "The Rabbit Catcher," which is utterly heartbreaking and powerful in the context of her life.
"And we, too, had a relationship--
Tight wires between us,
Pegs too deep to uproot, and a mind like a ring
Sliding shut on some quick thing,
The constriction killing me also."
LET'S TRY TO READ SOME POEMS BEFORE CONVINCING EVERYONE ABOUT HOW SMART WE ARE HA the epidemic
I read this comment just seconds after hearing him say that part lol
pandemic*
@@UberRobotPlays (giggles)
@@UberRobotPlays I came here to say this. Beat me to it
John green: “isn’t she like know mainly by young emo girls?”
Also John green: literally is mainly read by young girls
Schwer Dunkel and I didn’t ask
@@rohanz2678 why so edgy
Diana K I don’t think you have a good grasp on what edgy means, just saying
I did my Senior Thesis on Plath & was delighted to see Crash Course's excellent video on her work.
It is dismaying that many write-off Plath as an emo, suicide poet when her work is, in actuality, very complex, rife with symbolism.
Much of this misconception is due to Ted Hughes' reordering of the poems in Plath's last book, Ariel. He omits poems, such as "Purdah" which ends on a note of female empowerment (Clytemnestra slaying Agamemnon), and adds, as the penultimate poem, "Edge", which begins "The woman is perfected/Her dead//Body wears the smile of accomplishment."
Plath's original ordering would have ended with her cycle of bee poems, culminating in "Wintering" in which the dormant bees re-emerge from their hive after winter, "The bees are flying. They taste the Spring."
Plath was a poet of rebirth, not death. That's where she's misunderstood. Note the phoenix symbolism Green quotes from "Lady Lazarus", "Out of the ash/I rise with my red hair/And I eat men like air." Rebirth. Empowerment.
Plath's "romanticizing" of death and self-injury, and the manner in which she expresses them, is exactly why her poetry has helped me cope with my own mental illnesses and comforted me in times when I felt so determined to take my own life.
Great vid btw!
+samusaran311 exactly. This guy doesn't get it because he doesn't relate to it. This is what makes Plath's poetry so powerful, and it should not be criticized, no matter how uncomfortable it makes the reader. In fact, this video was extremely underwhelming. Great poetry is rarely happy.
@@zingzach no, you dont get it, just because you feel better consuming content that talks about mental illness, depression, self harm etc. Doesnt mean everyone has the same response to it as you, i dont have it for example, it doesnt make me feel better, it triggers anxiety. It's clear that people have many different reactions to susceptive content.
@Kawi yes i know, sorry if i mixed them up.
I sort of wish you would have dove a little deeper into the abusive relationship Sylvia held with her father and explained one of her last poems "Daddy." Personally, I think it's her best work and I was disjointed in not seeing it so much as mentioned.
katherine m her dad died when she was young do you mean the abuse from Ted Hughes?
katherine m Daddy is my favorite poem by her
I think you mean disappointed. God help us if you're a fan of her poetry.
Ancient Aztec poetry (written by Nazahualcoyotl, the king of Texcoco):
All the world is a tomb from which nothing escapes,
Nothing is so perfect that it does not fall and disappear...
What was yesterday, today is no more,
And what lives today cannot hope to exist tomorrow.
I, Nezahualcoyotl, ask this:
Is it true one really lives on the earth?
Not forever on earth,
Only a little while here.
Though it be jade it falls apart,
Though it be gold it wears away,
Though it be quetzal plumage it is torn asunder.
Not forever on earth,
Only a little while here.
(excerpted from "Native Mesoamerican Spirituality")
Asked my husband why he was skulking around watching me watch a video about Sylvia Plath....his response was "because John Green is talking about it..." Love it.
Regarding the ups and downs, it is a common theory and Sylvia Plath was bipolar, and these ups were her manic phases. It is also thought that her sudden burst of creativity came from a manic phase, since mania tends to beget creative productivity, when channeled right, at least.
Yeah, her depressive phases and periods of massive creative production certainly fits the typical rhythm of bipolar disorder
When I've read about the period of her writing at least Ariel, I've always seen it as a mixed episode. But that's just me.
Bipolar isn't a real disease.
mimiklaranathalie And you facts supporting that idea are?
I want to give Plath a hug...
I’m a 23 year old man who has never been interested in Poetry. Sylvia Plath changed that, she changed my life.
I'm surprised her miscarriage isn't mentioned, that was important to many of her subsequent poems
billygoatideas Sylvia Plath may also have had an abortion. It's been quite a while since I read the book "Her Husband" which is about the marriage of Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes but this is my best recollection and you may want to read the whole book which is very good. Shortly before her death Sylvia made a list in her journal of things she had experienced and among them she wrote "abortion" which people have believed was a reference to her miscarriage/spontaneous abortion. Many years later a man (I can't recall his name) who knew Sylvia wrote a memoir and in it told about making a crossing on the R.M.S. Queen Elizabeth and unexpectedly meeting Sylvia on board and I believe she was sailing alone. The author of the memoir was quite clear about when this happened. Plath biographers had had no knowledge of Sylvia Plath returning to America at this time. The author of "Her Husband" brought up the possibility that maybe Sylvia returned to the U.S. to terminate a pregnancy. My recollection is rather vague and I hope I'm not creating misinformation but I recommend the book "Her Husband" for those who may be interested in getting more specific information. Though "Her Husband" is excellent reading the author did make a couple of mistakes: there are a couple of references to Sylvia Plath traveling aboard the Queen Elizabeth 2. Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes also sailed aboard the first Queen Elizabeth; the QE2 began service in 1969, six years after Sylvia Plath died.
She wrote a poem about her miscarriage called "Parliament hill fields" it's one of my favourite poems. There's a line near the beginning where she says "Nobody can tell what I lack" and although i'm aware she's referring to her unborn child I feel as though everybody can relate to that feeling of emptiness. You should check it out!
As an aspiring author and a literature fanatic, it was really heartfelt when Lana sung about relating to her. Sylvia was an amazing, tragic and iconic poet.
"See you next week"
Two years later and I'm still waiting. WHERE ARE YOU?!
This summer!
WAIT REALLY? HOW DO YOU KNOW?
Shadow63 They've talked about it in lots of places, can't think of anywhere particularly. I'm super excited!
Oh thanks for telling me ^.^
No problem!
my therapist suggested i read sylvia plath and i began to write again. it is not glamorous, depression. but, you have to admit, there is a certain stubborn beauty about it that causes you to cringe.
John Green, I think you would be an absolutely amazing professor. I'm dead serious. You are brilliant with literature, you make me fall in love with it over and over again.
I think the "What a thrill" line applies more to the fact that she hates domestic work (cutting onions) and for once, to do something other (cut her finger instead) is compelling, even if it is self-harm.
The Poetry of Sylvia Plath: Crash Course Literature 216
Hi John. Question: Are you planning to do a video about any Argentinian or at least latinamerican author? I'm from Argentina and I love that kind of literature, it's my favorite. SO, please think about it. I give you some of my favorite: Silvina ocampo, Julio Cortázar, Jorge Luis Borges, Gabriel García Marquéz. Or any one else, I love everyone, it's just that I can't think of any other name XD Best wishes, Ignacio.
Ignacio grassia
I'd love to see a video on Borges, or Marquez, also.
Ignacio grassia A review on Jorge Luis Borges's short stories would be awesome
Maryjo Leiva Of courseee!!!!! But don't forget abaout his poetry, is amazing too. His poems are, after all, the soul of all his literature. Bur the short stories are incredible
CrashCourse PLEASE MAKE MORE OF THESE LITERATURE VIDEOS! IT HELPED ME SO MUCH!
"See you next week," he lied.
Can we all collectively agree to stop saying "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem"? It trivializes the emotions and mental states of those who are or have been suicidal and it is somewhat condescending, as though you, the bearer of platitudes, know more about the individual's situation than that individual. While I do not believe suicide is necessarily the proper response, neither do I believe that this platitude is necessarily true. The problem may not be temporary. The immensity of the problem may, in the perception of the one contemplating suicide, far outweigh any potential gain even if the problem were to be alleviated relatively soon. There are a number of factors that this does not consider. What of the elderly, who have lived their life? What of those who sacrifice themselves to rescue others, or the strong statements of others (the monks who set themselves on fire to protest a corrupt Vietnamese regime, Socrates declaration of the true and unrelenting life at its end). I am NOT saying that young people, especially teenagers, should consider suicide a serious option, because there are other factors (chemical imbalances that disproportionately affect teenagers, a lack of accurate perception of the future, etc) that are leading to suicidal thoughts, but it does not strike me as particularly helpful to declare "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" as though that is a valid response or deterrent.
I was planning on saying pretty much exactly this. I agree that suicide sucks and is not a good answer (though in terms of things like critical, untreatable illness I'm less sure), the fact of the matter is that not all problems are temporary. The platitude "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" trivializes or ignores those people who's problems are, in fact, permanent. Can't we find something better to say?
You're missing the point. Whatever is driving someone to suicide will be, theoretically, solvable; death is not. Death will always be infinitely more permanent than anything it is compared with. It doesn't trivialise anything; there's no "it can't be that bad" going on here- it's that death will never be worth it, and that's never said enough.
As someone with several suicide attempts and hospitalizations, I found comfort in knowing that my despair was temporary. I'm all for a better wording of this phrase, but some find comfort in knowing that these awful feelings won't last.
MargaretMaryMeg I also have several suicide and hospitalizations in my past, and I find the words hurtful. I also have problems that are not, in the least bit, temporary. There are ways of dealing with them and I do not believe that suicide is the right choice, but the problems themselves will never, ever, go away.
I was there to witness my friend slice his head off under a freight train.If I had known his intentions as he was walking towards the tracks, I would have tackled him and held him there. This was clearly not a cry for help. he wanted to die, but i will be damned if I do nothing if someone is in need of help and understanding. Death is not the right answer for everyone else involved. The person is gone but leaves behind all the people who cared about him/her to suffer. I make no claims to understand what others go through because I can only ever be inside my own brain, but the truth is that instead of judging others we should be more understanding. I wish we truly took mental health issues seriously. So many people self medicate and because they do are called criminals........but when a doctor prescribes something even more horrendous we call it medication. Freedom means being able to choose what you put into your body!!! We need for people to have REAL access to the care they need.
It sounds like she is not only suffering from some sort of Bi-polar Disorder but describes it in great detail. When she is down she describes the explosions, something she longs both longs for and finds intimidating. She is motivated to feel as she once did and yet when she is up it almost feels as if there is to much, as if she is excessively drained and both happy and productive and yet not necessarily of her own volition.
And to someone with dramatic ups and down death and suicide doesn't seem like a permanent solution to a temporary problem but a permanent solution for a endlessly revolving door of depression and uncontrollable energy,
I really love this series. I'm a science major in college and I don't get to take literature classes, and am confined to my room most days, so getting to read and analyze great novels with you, one of my favorite authors, gives me the greatest joy. It would make me, and I'm sure a lot of other people, very happy if you would continue with this series.
Best,
Cal
I'm the same situation- I don't get to literature classes- so this is really useful because they talk about great books and speak about them in a way that I can relate their content to my own life.
I'm reading Plath's The Colossus and Other Poems, and it's so intensely visual that reading it is like going to an art museum. I love it and feel dazed.
"People who suffer from crippling depression don't create anything." This is false. Sylvia Plath wrote massive amounts of poetry up to the day she killed herself.
The quote is "paralyzing depression" and people who are paralyzed are, by definition, not doing things.
awinters039 If so then that's kindo f a meaningless things to say, huh? Especially when Plath apparently didn't even experience that "paralyzing depression"
do you know what depression feels like my dude? wondering what makes you think that way
I suffer from depression, and I'm productive both as a worker and as a creator. Depression affects the volume of the work I can put out but it doesn't stop me from working. Obviously paralyzing ANYTHING stops you from doing something, but that state is an effect of the Paralyzing and not an effect of the depression.
She was most likely suffering from manic depression, hence why she had such a creative burst before she inevitably killed herself
It's great that you put that little excerpt about suicide in there. So many teenagers watch this, its really awesome that youre using your power as an educator for good, and for more than just shoving facts in our heads.
When I was a junior in high school, I was in the public library when this book flew off the top shelf and hit me on the head. It was Plath's Ariel. I asked my English teacher if she had heard of Plath. She hadn't but I checked out Ariel again and again because it had chosen me and I thought it was very good.
AbsalomAbsalom3 I wonder if it was the universe telling you something! Maybe you needed that book at that time
Dear John and all the CC team:
For a glorious couple of weeks I have enjoyed Crash Course Literature along with my morning coffee. For those few short minutes my life experience was lifted beyond the ordinary because of your efforts. I assure you that this subject matter is warmly appreciated. Thank you. Make more!
3:51 to 4:49
Why do I need to come back and listen to this so often?
I suppose I'm glad I am able to come back,
glad it was written in the first place.
Thank you, John.
Also... in the midst of depression, it's often hard to see a way out, or believe that it will ever get better. And knowing, abstractly, that your life is actually quite nice compared to many people's, and that you really "shouldn't" feel terrible often does not help one feel better at all... in fact, it can make someone feel worse, because it adds in a guilt element to the depression. It's a terrible thing, how a person's mind and emotions can betray them.
Sartori The only way I get through any sadness is thinking about all those who have worse than me. I think in my case, it helps me to realize how lucky I am in ways I cannot see. After reading your comment, I realized that I should never advice this method to anyone as this may add to their guilt. So thanks.
I am so glad you did her. I have recently become obsessed with her, and I love how you discussed her in such a wonderful way not putting her down for her death poetry but just putting it as it was. Thanks Crash Course!
Suicide is the end of suffering and pain. That's why people do it. Not because they are trying to solve a problem, temporary or permanent. They want the pain to stop and they don't see the pain ever going away. And they are correct, the pain never goes away. If you can learn to live with the pain, you survive, if you can't, you suicide.
thats deep. I do believe pain can go away. It might come back, but when it does one should be prepared.
IRS puts me on hold for about an hour so far. Thanks God for crash course. I am still willing to live after the morning passed me by,
Still on hold but glad to had taking crash literature course on the poems of this great woman who left us too early but gave us so much food for though. Mil gracias Silvia!
depression isn't a temporary problem for some people though? For people like Plath depression is a lifelong illness and it's cruel to force those people to stay alive when they are so intensely unhappy and suffering so horribly.
depression isn't 24/7. just like happiness or anger isn't 24/7. an emotion or feeling perhaps repeats and stays around for a very long time but it's not permanent. i speak from experience so please don't haze me lol. i know everyone has their own experiences as well but i believe that depression isn't a "forever and always" thing. it does suck when it takes over most of your life and the happiness is so small and fleeting. but still... it's just something very personal and i can't say i 100% blame people for their own suicide but i do wish they would keep going for their own sake. for the unknown. they're the only ones who can commit their own suicide. and they're the only ones who can save themselves, too. you don't have to "force" someone to live, just encourage them to live. the choice will be theirs at the end of the day no matter what happens. i do wish Plath had kept on living. I believe she would have overcome it. She seemed pretty cool and had a beautiful genuine smile! (doing a school project on plath atm)
Wow. Just Wow.
feminiedisaster Your experiences aren't the same as everyone elses. For a lot of people it doesn't stop, it doesn't get better. There's no moment of reprieve. You don't see them because they're usually kept in hospital at that point, but theyre there.
Some forms of deep depression come from the inability to manufacture neurotransmitters such as serotonin, leading to the impossibility to feel anything positive and some negative , some pills such as Prozac block some of the re up take channels for serotonin , leaving them in the synapse for longer , giving the effect of more serotonin , which helps with depression. If we gave Plath the correct medication, love and care maybe she would still be alive to day
feminiedisaster (look at the other reply i made ) you have to remember that depression isn't sadness or an emotion , it's a lack of emotions and maybe to you this is surpassable but some people literally cannot manufacture enough of the correct neurotransmitters be able to glide out of depression.
Thanks
When John says "Her career was cut short, and I mourn all the many wonderful books we could have had"
I immedeatly thought of a Kendrick Lamar line from 'i' a song about expression/depression "What do you want from me and my scars?"
Thank you for introducing me to the poetry of Sylvia Plath. I can now say from experience, rather than inexperience, that her work is boring, emo, dribble that's promoting self hate and is not worth my time.
And before anyone jumps me for saying so, you don't have to have the same opinion as me.
Art doesn't require conformity or agreement. Heck it doesn't even require understanding in many cases. This is but one man's opinion that I alone hold. Hold your own opinion with pride, but do not attempt to deprive me of my own.
You're more than entitled to your opinion, but it's pointless if you can't back it up. A brief John Green video isn't going to teach you anything worthwhile about her poetry.
Opinions don't require being "backed up". Only facts, or information presented as facts, do.
I'm not certain you paid attention to the video. It does have depressing lows, but it also has joyous happiness.
And as a critic, opinions SHOULD be backed up.
Objective assessments should be backed up. Opinions need not be. Her work bored me, please do tell, how do you back up the opinion of boredom? You can't, it just is what it is.
You can describe what about her work bored you.
As a major Sylvia Plath fan I don't care much to call her poetry works of feminism but instead her works were adopted by feminism. She came from a time where the women's movement for equality was at full force and feminism was this new big thing, and generally feminists care for women who've lead horrid, battered lives whether it be physical or mental, and Sylvia's writing was just that, battered, and it all came from a bright and brilliant woman. They saw this in her and took her after her death under their wing. Sylvia wrote just to express her thoughts about everything around and inside her, her mind's eye never blinked.
Crash Course Literature is so amazing. Every time I watch it I feel myself falling in love with literature even more. The quotes you guys choose are just incredible.
"By keeping her eyes open as long as she did, she helped to keep ours open" Well said sir.
I deeply enjoy the unique, pseudo-philosophical notion of both talking with the past self, and the way it is done. Such as "Let's actually read some poems before we trying to convince everyone how smart we are." It, intentionally or not, shows the flow of change, evolution of the individual and, in my opinion most important to the series on Literature, how ideals and life style can change through education and study.
The idea of suicide is rather interesting to me. I have depression and crippling anxiety so it is often a very temping prospect. I do not fear death at all, the idea of absolutely nothing sounds like a huge relief sometimes. But I never consider it as something I might actually do because it would be a terrible thing to do to the people who care about me. I don't blame people who take their own lives, I understand them quite well, but it is still a terrible thing to do.
you really need help :/
I understand the idea of it being a relief from anxiety and depression, as I have suffered both. It really can be tempting. But if you're like me, you'll have certain times where you can think clearly enough to realize that while you need rest from your anxiety, the eternal rest is not the best option. It really is an overtly huge response to a problem that can be managed much more productively.
***** Yeah, completely. I have never considered suicide as something I will actually do.
I recently finished reading The Bell Jar today and I really enjoyed. Not much happened in the plot (not very much anyway) but I couldn't put the book down and every time I did manage to draw my eyes away from the page, I couldn't stop thinking about the story and Esther's problems. The book was easy to read and understand yet it did move me and I would happily re read it :) I'd love to get hold of some of her poems now...
Ooh, I would LOVE a Crash Course Literature on one of the works of Virginia Woolf!
Thank you for covering Sylvia Plath! I'm a 35 year old man and she is one of my favorite poets, such beautiful yet sad and dark imagery. Most teachers I ever had didn't want to cover her work. I really appreciate your interpretations of the various works, very insightful. Her poems can be fairly strange and hard to decipher. Thanks again, fantastic video!
I had pain in my path
Sylvia Plath
My problems were a myriad
I was having my period
*aggrieve sobbing through laughter*
You should talk about THE OUTSIDERS
Yessss. I love Ponyboy's first person technique so much!
My name is Dallas and I've had so many questions asking if that book is where I got my name
I really liked your point towards the end, that we are "called to attentiveness, even when it's painful." That really resonated with me.
Also, your me-from-the-past discussion seems particularly pertinant considering some of the recent criticism against TFiOS and Looking for Alaska.
I didn't see you mention this, but it's quite important to her poems and other writings. After Plath first attempted suicide, she was utterly shocked that she had survived; so ten years later she felt as if it was a debt to try again. She was married to Hughes at the time when she decided to repay the debt once again by crashing her car. Another ten years later, she was expecting an editor (I believe) early in the morning, so she prepared everything a day before by placing bread and milk on her children's table and going to bed. She woke up early that morning only to open her gas stove and pass out with a note that read "Call my doctor once you find me". The editor banged on the door which didn't even wake the man that lived above Plath. They found her later on, already dead.
Sylvia lived a life of metaphors, and that's what made her interesting. RIP Sylvia Plath.
You should do a crash course on Nabokov's works -- namely, Signs and Symbols and Lolita!
What is perhaps the most important aspect of these videos (of the Crash Course Literature series) is their introduction of elements into literary discussion which broaden the perception of a potential reader without rounding-out or encapsulating an entire opinion or viewpoint. You are, as such, cracking open a door to a room, within which a curious glow pulls the reader deeper into exploratory thought. Keep it up, you're doing good work!
1984...you should consider analyzing this. Or maybe "The Picture of Dorian Gray" since I'm currently reading it and it's interesting.
*****
I didn't realize you made this suggestion. I'll give it a try, thanks.
Maybe Lord of the Flies, Waiting for Godot, or Beowulf too
*muhahahaha*
you finally got your wish of 1984
Me too
Thank you, John Green, for giving me an accurate and deep explanation for who Sylvia Plath was and what her writing stands for.
I would love it if John did a Crash Course on Animal Farm or 1984 both by George Orwell. Two really cool books.
Oh my goodness I love Sylvia Plath's work. Lady Lazarus is my favorite from her. Her use of enjambment, and repetition blows my mind! Thank you for doing this video!
I've heard her reading her own poetry. And honestly I thought that when I was listening to her I could hear in her voice not only the genius, but also the madness.
This is an absolutely spot on, well-written, and humane summation of Plath. Loved it.
Sad Side Note :
After Plath's suicide, the woman Ted Hughes was having an affair with were married and had a child.
In 1969, the second Mrs. Hughes took her own life and the life of that child in the same manner Sylvia took her life.
Makes you wonder what kind of monster was Ted Hughes??!!
Thank you for the open letter, John. As someone who has read The Bell Jar, written a research paper on it and has dealt with depression firsthand, I applaud you.
Also the TFIOS movie was great. DFTBA
you just opened my mind to an awesome woman, i just became obsessed and want to read her poems and biography now!
As someone who has lived through depression, tried to commit suicide before I was 10, and now lives in physical pain 24/7 from multiple injuries. Saying suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, is woefully simplistic.
It borders on telling a child "cut your nose to spite your face why don't you". It has an air of saying it's an immature decision. Pointing to examples of depressed people who didn't commit suicide, and went onto achieve great things is a kin to saying "they were grown up enough to see through their temporary problems, you should do the same.".
I think suicide sucks, and wish we had a better society all around. One where we have better access to mental health (and not just doctors prescribing meds for kickbacks), better access to health care in general so people wouldn't have to live in pain. A way to put a roof over everyone's head, and food in their bellies so they don't feel stressed and become depressed. Heck, I wish our society wasn't so vain, and obsessed with material possessions, as that causes depression in some.
Those things would be great, but we aren't there yet. We can't help everyone yet, though we should try. Telling people to grow up (as it sounded like),mor comparing a very personal tragedy to noted figures comes off as flippant.
I know there are others on here who disagree, those who have and haven't suffered. That's part of the problem with his message. It's hit or miss, and if it misses, as it has with some it can do harm. What good is a message that can do harm as well as good?
I know John had the best of intentions, but his words did hurt people. Make them feel stigmatized, trivialized and judged. That's where the rub lies, not in those he helped, but in the few (and I hope it's only a few)Newhouse were hurt by his words.
Dear John Green,
An analysis of Kazuo Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go would be amazing.
Best wishes,
A diehard crash course fan
I HAVE read Sylvia Plath poems and tried to dissect each of them. Instead of first going into the details of her infamous life before reading the poems, I found that the best way to fully appreciate not just her poetry but also to honor her life is to first read her poems and through them, learn piece-by-piece what her life was like and how it affected her writing.
Depression is one thing I truly hate. One of the founding fathers had depression because of life being the worst despite being the greatest president he became before his assassination. I had depression after my parents were seperate, turning my life upside down, thinking of killing myself and going many times to the Obamacare facility to be treated by demons who poisoned me to die without peace, until God and Jesus came into my life and told me, "not to commit yourself to enter a world of fire, darkness and death", because I realize how my depression, how my anxiety came into my life, and there were three factions who wanted me dead without mercy and the three were capitalism, feminism and terrorism, the three evil factions who now rule with an iron fist to hurt people who are poor, men who are weak and hurt anyone who is not strong enough and then kill themselves to death. Those who haunted my life in the name of terrorism were radical young people who are to be proclaimed as terrorists, the creators of hell and darkness under Satan, their most trustworthy father in the other world full of evil. Now, I no longer have depression and I am now currently a Roman Catholic, a baptized Christian who now has the objectives he must complete. Since the martyr Elliot Rodger killed himself because of b....s who killed him for being insane, no, he died a hero and his words have awakened how brutal, corrupt and devious b....s have become nowadays and capitalism, ever since the financial crisis of 2008, I now realize, whoever has the highest debt should be the one who has to be punished and that enemy is the American Empire, the highest debtor in the world, failing to take care what's financially responsible, that led to poverty, inequality and violent actions to be in effect, killing innocents without an amount of wealth to become happy. Radical young terrorists, my generation, they prove to be a threat than the last generation who were moderate and safe to work with, now currently swarming with extravagance, technology and acts of violence they commit and get away with the crimes they commit is unjust, unrighteous and mostly, unconstitutional. These three factions or demons must be rid of for the world to be safe. Only two people are on my side and they are God and his beloved son, Jesus Christ. They are helping me to spread the truth, to spread what the enemy is truly capable of. I must take the responsibility and I must, not for myself but for all people who must learn and spread to fight not for evil but for equality, courage and security. I must do what the heavens want me to do is the right thing.
***** because he wants to.
Amanda Lovelace, what do you mean?
Much as I agree with you, I have to say one thing: Lincoln was NOT a founding father. He was the 16th president. *sigh*
Mac Desmond, however, he was the greatest as equal as George Washington.
Emperor Tikacuti sorry some kid was being a poop and apparently deleted his post.
John Green you are an excellent role model for young adults everywhere. Bravo.
John, a Crash Course Literature on Macbeth would be great! :)
RealRainbowRapidash Agreed
JulesLovesUA-cam And A Mudsummer Night's Dream!
They just released a Macbeth episode yesterday, 1/23/18!
Confessional Poetry and theatre, (as an actor), give the healing of art to the producer, but the gift of it to the masses.
Interesting video, however I disagree with the sentiment that suicide is a permanent response to a temporary problem. There are many people who are terminally ill, and allowing them to end their suffering can be an appropriate solution to a very permanent problem.
John Green's voice is perfect for reading poetry
What a simplicity of SP's life and poetry.
limited time
Jup and not objective enough in my opinion.
John Green, you are doing a service to the world. I thought your literature videos couldn't compare to the history ones but these are great! Thanks so much for helping me and my students better understand the world in general.
Why does no one seem to be discussing the adorable Catbug cameo? Catbug!!
Dear John Green,
Thank you for your exploratory, humble, and reasonable approach to all things worthwhile and interesting. I love your thoughts on history, current events, and abstract concepts; but I'm starting to think that most of all, I love your thoughts on poetry. So, thank you for being the English teacher from afar that I could never have in person. And finally, thank you for believing that teenagers have something to contribute to this world without taking them too seriously.
Best wishes!
Ellie Brower
Who’s her after listening to *Hope is a Dangerous Thing For a Woman Like me to Have, But I have it* by *Lana del Rey*
shut up oh god
annie hall go worry about your large stomach❤️✨
H0NEYMOURN this is awkward because I’m a 00
I enjoy Literature and I enjoy Crash Course. 24 episodes are not enough to satisfy my need for enjoyment of these things. There needs to be more!
Thank you for the open letter. It's amazing.
Thank you John Green for reminding me that people often suffer horrible pitfalls because they're on the path to something great. In the words of someone dear: "You can tell how amazing the future holds for you by the level of opposition that you face"
Will there be more Crash Course Literature videos because they are my favorite videos on Crash Course.
Never would I have thought I would be watching crash course videos 5 years after graduating
You know, John ... Please don't moralize on depression. Using great poets and presidents as examples of things someone might do if they don't commit suicide is manipulative, and it's really nobody's place to arbitrarily make that call. Just please don't. It's not that simple.
I've been watching your videos for years but I can't get on board with that. It's right up there with "But have you just tried being HAPPY?"
Had crippling bouts of depression myself, and I think John Green nailed it: he wasn't moralising on depression, he was moralising on suicide. They are not the same thing. The one may or may not lead to the other.
He's saying that help is available. Which goes nowhere near "have you tried just bing happy?"
Martin Hatchuel The rest of my comment made it very clear that I was specifically talking about his comments on suicide.
I don't appreciate the kind of guilt trips and foolish hypotheticals that he talked about in his open letter; I get them all the time and they don't help at all. Most people who want to die probably don't care at all about what poetry they mighty *hypothetically* write or whether they'll *hypothetically* be president. Why would they? They just want to stop hurting. They want it to go away.
You may have had depression yourself, but I've been suffering with suicidal ideation / obsession for 14 years, and whenever someone uses that kind of trite manipulation I just stop trying to talk to them about it. It's impersonal and doesn't address the sick person's problems.
As someone who has also suffered suicidal bouts of depression, I think you need to back away slowly. Green wasn't being trite, he was telling a truth - suicide ends potential. If his quick message helps someone reach for a hotline rather than a knife, I'm fine with it.
I don't "need" to do anything. As someone who this would apply to, my thoughts on this aren't any less valid than yours just because you disagree with me or because I'm disagreeing with someone you like. When role models touch on topics like this, they need to be aware of how they sound, and I explained how he sounded and explained why I was saying so. Don't invalidate my experience to defend him.
Amber Englebert A suicidal person does not care what their "potential" is. They just want to die and stop the pain they are going to. What COULD happen doesn't make them feel any better.
Thank you for not forgetting to be awesome and being so honest with Plath's writing. Loved the video!
More literature courses!!!!!!!
I read The Bell Jar a few months ago and I loved it. It was relatable in the way that the way the main character thought about her day to day life, how it all feels distorted and hyper-aware sometimes.
THE PLATH!!!
I suffer with crushing depression, have had episodes of suicidal intent and action and her poetry is not really saying death is beautiful or glorious but instead it marks how sweetly poisonous it "smells" it draws you close with it's perfect illusion, you play with the idea, cause it looks beautiful.
1984 and Animal Farm definitely should be added to Crash Course in Literature.
I love that whether I need help with a Sociology course, reviewing for a History test, and now trying to understand poetry for an English research paper, Crash course always has a vid for the subject I need! Thanks CC for helping me not fail since middle school 😅
What happened to your arm? I see some bruises on it.
Anyway thanks for the Transformers G1 references. And now I get the reference in that MST3K college short.
He has always had that birthmark. He mentioned it in a Vlogbrothers video long ago and how everyone thinks it's a bruise.
John
Thank you for the Open Letter on suicide. If there is one message I could get through to anybody who is thinking that this is the answer it would be "YOU WILL BE MISSED!!!" There are people out there that do love you and care about you.To those who know some one thinking about suicide please let them know how much you love and care about them. Let them know they are not alone.
CATBUG!!!
Yes in video about one of the most influential and eloquent poets in history and advocate for gender equality I noticed a popularized fictional multi-dimensional hybrid character, I have no apologies
Speaking of poetry and depression... I wrote this a few months ago and have yet to share it with anyone so here goes:
I'm writing to say something
But I want you to hear nothing
because this is the world through my eyes,
this is my life, and these are my lies.
If you're broken like me
Maybe you see my perspective,
And maybe you know
the respective depression that pours through these lenses.
I'm scared of my own future
I can't accept the past
I can't live in the moment,
Time just moves too fast.
And nobody
knows what I feel
Above my throat,
Behind my eyes.
And none of you
will ever know
who I am
in my disguise
But that's alright.
I'll never know you either.