This was so interesting and reassuring to know that it is a process of learning for most people. I really do want to reduce my carbon footprint but feel very inadequate in knowledge. As my planned solar installation is using up my spare cash I cannot afford to make many costly mistakes. I really appreciate the help and support that people like Tim and John are giving to novices like me.
Hi, as a person who has only had solar installed a couple of months as John says work out your usage before designing your system. For example, I had only a 5kwh battery, however not sure financially whether it is worth increasing the battery or diverting the excess to other appliances, i.e. air to air heat pump. FYI despite only a 5kwh battery another 5kwh battery would only give me an extra 3kwh per day, when the sun is out. Of course there would be extra storage for off peak loading on cloudy days. However this would only save me an extra 50p per day on cloudy days. If not a lot of cash my recommendation would be maximise the panels, with a 5kwh battery which would smooth out day usage when the sun pops in and out. Then you can really see your usage and how much excess you have, or modify your usage. Then you are in a position to ascertain whether another battery would be worth it. The only extra you would pay would be vat instead of installing all at the same time. Good luck.
@@laurencedamazer2260 or use my ridiculous spreadsheet, which includes heating demand and charging of batteries during off-peak tariff times. That allowed me to find the sweet spot for battery capacity to help cover the heating while remaining cost effective. I agree that maximising the solar panels is the most important thing though.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Hi, I do not think your spreadsheet would cope with my situation. Rented to students, no control on usage. 40 minutes a day showers happening anytime from 05.00 to midnight. In addition not fully occupied any 3 months a year, i.e. Xmas, which was a real bonus. No I think I need a programmer, oh you are one! That excludes Air to Air heating. Thanks.
@@laurencedamazer2260 ah, I did think 40 mins of showers was quite high. That explains it! One day I'll get around to coding a comprehensive domestic energy simulation tool but it might take me a while!
Really enjoyed that, looking forward to the series. It was great to hear the feedback and its given me comfort as i'm on a similar journey and my scaffolding is going up next Friday with 6.3kwp of panels, Givenergy Gen2 5kw Inv and 9.5kwh battery going in, to complement the Zappi charger we already have. I have also just knocked up a home assistant instance in readiness. Some good advice and looking forward to hopefully having a similar outcome. The Eddi will be my next project before then tackling the heating system in a year or two.
Great idea to have these solar stories. When I initially researched about solar a year ago it was just from Facebook groups. But it's great to hear people's stores in person and also things they would have done differently. I had installed 5.6kWp worth of solar on a solis hybrid inverter coupled with 14.2kWh worth of Pylontech batteries. Best investment I have ever done. Also hoping to get a V2X unit installed in the coming weeks coupled with my 39kWh LEAF. If all goes ahead as planned we will probably be looking at getting a 2nd LEAF 👍
Thank you guys, that was so helpful. We're trying to understand our requirements at the moment and ready to commit anytime. Such an informative discussion and you're both very articulate. Thanks again.
Really good video, I got my Solar system installed by Eon 4yrs ago. At the time I didn’t no much about the systems but looking back I struck lucky ( I think). They installed a 4.3 SolarEdge for the Solar Panels with the optimisers and Victron Multiplus inverter model 48/3000/35 with 2 Pylontech batteries @2.4Kwh each. And a CCGX to control the Victron Now I’ve just upgraded to a Victron Multiplus 48/5000/70 with 3 more pylontech batteries (total 16 KwH) upgrade on the wiring . System is now a lot better from before as the inverter running at35amp would only give me Approx 1700watts, but now I can boil a 3kw kettle and others with ease. Also I can do all of the things using the ESS controller from the CCGX like you can do on your video. Food for thought? P.S. I also prefer my system is that 1 of the components fail I can still use it. Hop this makes sense.
Some great information in there. I have recently had a 6.9kW SolarEdge PV system, battery, plus a ASHP installed all at once and your videos on energy usage calculations helped hugely in understanding the effectiveness of it all. There are so many installers that just push the volume of installs rather than the quality, in both Solar PV and ASHPs, it can become a rather bumpy journey. I would be happy to talk through my experiences if it would help anyone make theirs less painful!
What a great idea. I have looked at so many people and there projects. So that I could build my own system. I have installed myself a 3 phase grid tied Victron system with 82 kWh of battery I have 14.4 Kw of solar still to install to add to my 6 kW of solar on my roof. Integrating Myenergi and home assistance. with other smart systems. 2 EVs, Eddi for hot water. The plan to upgrade to a heat pump. with the trouble of making it work in a old 1904 solid wall house.
Tim, This was a very useful and interesting video. John gave some really useful advice and information. We are just having a GivEnergy system installed which is very similar in configuration to John's and it was reassuring to know that this seems to be a good system. The tips he gave especially on things like SolarCast will be invaluable when my system is up and running in a few days. I would definitely like to see more in this series.
I have a Zappie and a DC coupled home battery and have managed to get it to work with excess solar without discharging the home batteries works ok even on the odd day in January December when you have full charge on home battery
I'm about halfway through putting on a solar system. So far 3.2KW panels fitted with a 5kw solis hybrid inverter and one 4.8kw pylon battery. Now giving about 7/8 kw hrs per day and increasing. Plan to do second stage which is another 3.3 Kw panels and another battery later in June. So far spent £4,900 in total and the other 3.3KW panels will be £1400, not counting the second battery which are £1700 . Saw advantage of battery today as Boss was using 6KW s of power at one stage, but only producing 2kw from panels at time, so battery provided the balance. Fitting on two separate roofs (different buildings), so running 6mm solar cable for link up. Have own tower so working off that to reduce scaffolding costs. One big disadvantage will be not having a MCS cert (unless I buy one).
I would say to anyone thinking of buying solar in the next month or so just to hang on a bit. Reason is panel prices are dropping, just had e mail in from my supply company and they are offering Canadian solar 405w mono perc haiku panels in black for £97 each now plus vat.
Saw on internet, company offering solar batteries, so hit the link and they called me. Told them want I wanted , not what they wanted to give me, and got forwarded to the company boss. He then quoted 4K for one 4.8kw battery. ( hate it when they give rounded up numbers and no breakdown). Told him I wanted one not two, to which he told me some BS about being really expensive. He then informed me he was paving “well over 2K each “ for them, to which I offered to sell him 10 at £1900 quid each. He didn’t take me up on offer which are selling new today at £ 1316.88 plus vat. Lots of players quoting silly prices currently for something that’s easy to fit. Just need access, and some spare time. Rail support roof hooks are easy to fit, and you can just do one at a time
An extremely informative video about real world experience of solar, very useful and interesting from beginning to end. What a great idea for a series, looking forward to watching more.
Thanks for putting this video together, great insight. My install is planned for mid April, 14 panels plus 3.6kW Giv Energy Inverter and 9.5kWh Giv Battery. (across a few roof faces so using Tigos on every panel also). Struggled most with sizing the battery! Using roughly 25 kWh a day but drew the line at the cost. Looking forward to learning the surprises as John said in the video :)
Yeah, adding an extra 9.5 kWh battery might not necessarily be worthwhile if you can't charge both fully overnight during cheap rate tariff times. The inverter limits charging to 3.6 kW so you'd only manage 14.4 kWh in four hours. Might be better to go for an extra 5.2 kWh battery instead (which is what I'm doing).
LOADS of great invaluable comments from you guys! I had asked two so-called Top managers which panels I would be receiving and got the same response from both...I won't name the company but was told 305w panels and it turns out they are 405w panels.Some good news for a change! This offer was/is part of a govt scheme and we have had to go with the flow with zero advise and plenty of lost working days through no shows...The 9.5kwh battery was £5 shy off £7000 a lot of money for us to lay out but I truly believe will be worth it!
Running Panda, feel assured you are not alone. I'm guessing you went with the same company I had through a gvt scheme! Awful experience kind of sums it up and knowing what I do, would have done a better DIY job at half the cost! If it wasn't for the certificates. Still it's finally done.
@@dhall9212Hi, Unit has eventually been installed that's after they turned up without the battery on day of install. I'm still awaiting certificate paperwork (not had a reply to state if/when they will send it/email it) There's a lot to get your head around and without a paper manual it makes it even harder...There does not seem to be a setting to stop exporting to the grid (in my case at the moment they are getting it free) until my battery is fully charged! Still early days:)
@@runningpanda6570 up to 60/70 Watts randomly going to the grid, you can ignore! That is normal as the system is balancing itself out to try and keep your import at zero. You will see that up to 60/70 Watts randomly comes from the grid either to the home or battery. This, I was told by givenergy tech is normal to keep the systems communication working.
@@dhall9212 Exporting 1.2kw at the moment...I have 52% battery charged and 3.2kw coming in from the solar.It's hard to juggle:)...If I could set the export at 60/70 watts I'd be happy with that...Thanks for the info:)
@@runningpanda6570 do you have a givenergy set up? If so, on the app( on your phone)or the givenergy cloud (on a laptop) you can go to settings and reduce the discharge to zero and/or set discharge times. Even doing so minimal amounts up to 60 Watts will still migrate to and from the grid to keep the system balanced! Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions, I'll help if I can. I'm not sure on other systems. 👍
I have a HyperVolt charger which can be setup to use excess solar to charge the car. I’ve recently had the GivEnergy batteries installed to compliment my solar system. I’m using Home Assistant to prevent the battery being drained during my Intelligent Octopus charging sessions which seems to work okay so far.
With home assistant… I have a BP oval charger, and added a Sonoff Mini to control the relay that turns on/off the charger. That means Home Assistant can enable/disable the charge
Interesting..I am not really qualified to modify the charger but I do think Home Assistant could be a useful method to divert excess solar. If only the Ohme cable had an API I wouldn't need to change it.
Very informative for the newbie especially the last section. What many don’t realise is that you are buying an Integrated System which has to function. As someone who is familiar with electrical power systems and having re-wired my house with individual load feeds to specific areas, I started evaluating PV systems /chargers /and their nuances since last July and it took me 6 months of detailed study and planning to decide on what I needed rather than be sold some Marketing Hype. I need a new roof, so decided on x13 inset panels on 3 roof sides but with micro inverters behind each panel (no bulky central inverter) and no battery. I will see how this performs over 1 yr and later expand PV to the garage roof and adding a Tesla PW.
My battery would have to be installed externally at the back of the house in W Yorkshire. I’m familiar with battery performance issues in winter and this year is no exception with forums full of complainants where batteries have been exposed to 5c and below with the exception of Tesla which has worked well even in Inverness. Tesla PW are very costly having a 1yr waiting list. By that time, they will be more proven in our climate rather than California where they are most popular
@@wajopek2679 ah yes, that is a consideration. I'm lucky enough to be able to install the batteries in a garage which is integral to the house so never gets too cold.
Very interesting chat. John commented that one of his electric showers was less efficient. All electric showers are 100% efficient. Higher power requires more water flow for same temperature. There is no waste heat. If all the heat didn't go into the water the shower would catch fire!
Hi @johnh9449, you are of course electrically correct. ;-). I was referring to the cost per shower in terms of efficiency, looking at the specs on the showers one is a 10.5kWh the other a 7.5kWh, the 7.5kWh does the job fine and there definitely is a difference in what 4 minutes of each shower consumes looking at the data. I have a bigger decision to make on these if we get a hot water cylinder and remove the combo boiler as it would logically make more sense to take the electric showers out and put standard cylinder driven ones in.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Hi John, You get more water flow with a 10.5kW shower for the same water temperature compared to 7.5kW so arguably you could spend less time in the 10.5kW shower by the time the same volume of water has flowed (so the same cost) but you'd have to speed up lathering and evening else too😉 Does your 10.5kW shower have a half power setting? If so you could spend longer in the shower than the 7.5kW with the same temperature and cost. Just trying to save you the expense of changing showers with an alternative. Of course if you get a water cylinder then it would be cheaper changing the showers if the cylinder is heated by a heat pump. Watch the size of tank and number of showers though if the average shower takes perhaps 60 litres. You may want to keep one electric shower in case the hot water stops working or runs cold.
@@johnh9449 Thanks, its a pretty old shower to be honest, the Redring Glow one we have is much better and more controllable as it has a proper temperature display and seems to be more consistent once set.
I too know what I want to be installed, Givenergy 95 battery and Gen2 5kw inverter. It has been really difficult to get any installers to supply PV and these. Most like you say sell a 'package', take it or leave it and will not supply or install Giverergy. I've contacted many companies, most will only do local work, others no Givenergy. I did find two installers who would supply and fit Givenergy at a cost though. When I queried the high price of the battery and inverter one company said, 'we have to make money on them', one other company said 'they are making no money on them' - what I pointed out that I could purchase a 9.5 kwh battery and 5kw Gen2 inverter £1000 less than what they were going to charge me they were not interested. There are a few online companies who have these in stock now. Both companies said they would not fit if I supplied the battery and inverter.
Very interesting chat. Currently awaiting planning permission for a 9.2Kw ground mounted solar system with a 8Kw inverter and two 10kw batteries. Will be coupled with a 6.2Kw air source heat pump (being installed at the end of this month).
Interesting article and thank you as I am about to have a not dissimilar system installed based on 16 panels, GiveEnergy Hybrid Gen 2 inverter, GiveEnergy 9.5KW Gen 2 battery. Like John I went round a lot of manufacturer's solutions before deciding on this. Only addition I have specified are Tigo Optimisers for the panels (awaiting arrival). These are more for providing individual panel O/P info' (hopefully useful in the future when fault finding) rather than overcoming any shading problems. Found the EV charging comments useful as probably getting an EV in 12 months time by which point should have more experience of using the system.
Great video. Currently looking at a 9.5kw givenergy system to go with my existing solar PV system as 2/3 of the energy generated goes back to the grid even with an electric car and Hypervolt EV charger
Great advice, if i had a pound for every Give energy cable fiasco or Bluetti customer “service” issue from 22 I’d be rich! Caveat emptor! Great advice about not scaling to the tariff at the end, something I’m doing alongside our rental set up!
I can't tell you how helpful this video is. A brilliant opportunity for us all to learn. Thank you John! We're in Whitley Bay and funnily enough I work in IT too! The 1.4KW car tip is absolute gold! I'd like to get a Giv gen2 system, but quotes are scandalous up here, I'm finding... As you say: data data data! I've bought a Glow display & CAD and am shipping data to home assistant. Our average electricity use is 10kw-12kh so not bad.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk It was brilliant Tim. Your style was excellent - great active listening, letting John talk without interruption. I wonder if you have any recommendations in terms of payback calculation spreadsheets?
@@Th3Dean thank you, that's very kind of you to say. Regarding spreadsheets this video by Gary Does Solar runs you through a very good example: ua-cam.com/video/FvjuJQZRrvA/v-deo.html Alternatively I have a much more complicated one on a previous video that includes heating as well but I think Gary's one is probably a better place to start. Gary makes the best videos about solar on UA-cam, hands down.
Thanks @th3Dean try Northburn Solar in Cramlington, I do know he is very busy at the moment, if you have trouble contacting him let me know and I will call him on his mobile and ask him to call you.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney That's so kind John, I'd really appreciate that. I have emailed him twice, but just get an out of office saying how busy they are. Would be (hopefully) a straightforward job for them as we are fully South facing and the roof is brand new.
Really interesting stuff - I've used Home assistant previously and went for a self-built system instead, but it looks much more polished now, so going to have a little look around it again and see what's changed with it in terms of inverter control and integrations for monitoring
Except if your regular import is close to zero anyway it won't actually save you much. I'm not quite sure how the saving sessions work but I thought it was calculated relative to your usual usage.
It is - but there is an “in day adjustment” which looks at the change in usage before the session (compared with normal) and assumes your whole day will have shifted by that, and so charge the car for theee hours “save” 7kWh - more than pays for the peak energy import…
Hi Tim! I've been watching your videos with interest and I'm curious as to why you chose to go with Givenergy? I myself was very interested in their products until I stumbled across their Trustpilot reviews which unfortunately makes for some pretty grim reading. I'm now thinking of hanging it out until the Myenergi libbi battery becomes available which according to Myenergi should be with their wholesalers by end of May early June. I know you were considering the libbi and wondered why in the end you chose Givenergy? Did I miss something in one of your other videos😀
Mostly it came down to value for money. The GivEnergy system gets you more kWh per £ than the libbi. I also know a few people with GivEnergy systems and they've not had any problems and are very happy with it. Online reviews are often populated by those who have experienced the most problems so likely offer a biased sample. It's a risk you take with any large purchase of course. With the libbi being so new too there are likely to be teething problems in any case, so who knows really. All I can say is so far I've been very happy with our system and have had no problems, although I've only had it a month so it's early days.
Gold dust! Like Tim, I like to research all the ins and outs before taking the plunge so this video has been invaluable in helping me decide which setup would suit me best. I am however struggling, as Tim did, to find a passionate knowledgable, installer. Being in the same region as Tim, the icing on the cake would be if Tim had mentioned his specific installer.
Northburn Solar, if you do email or call him mention you have watched the interview on UA-cam. He is very busy at the moment, let me know if he doesn't get back to you and I can pass on details if needs be.
Great information for those looking for solar and a battery. Can say that after first adding solar over 12 years ago, when I was ready to add a battery I knew most of that was used by my home and answer was to add another 4kWh of solar PV to the opposite side of my roof (being E/W facing) to ensure I could fill the battery. My battery is a Tesla Powerwall and is situated outside and has been running perfectly for the last few years. EV added 2 years ago, ASHP last year and house loft insulation comnpleted. Used 3333kWh for my hot water and home heating. Now updated cavity wall insulation and this seems to be saving around a third on previous usage. Also to help, I have a Zappi charger and it works well with my Powerwall and my Eddi for hot water. My solar first fills battery, then Eddi heats hot water and then any spare goes to car. I have been with Tesla Energy Plan for past year, since getting the ASHP and not knowing my use. Prior year we used 89% night use of energy for the year and exported only 400kWh to the grid for the whole year. I am now adding another 4kWh to a south facing wall to ease the ASHP electric use in the winter andprovide a good amount of energy to make EV charging more reliable, as I never knew enough solar would be spare, so hence exporting the 400kWh. Finally Ripple and Kirk Hill will help reduce my bills!
@@DanEVSolar7 cool, drop me an email using the address on the About tab and I'll add you to the list (bear in mind it's gonna be several months at this point as I can only do about one interview per month and there are a few folks lined up already).
Thank you Tim and John for a VERY useful and interesting discussion. John, a question: Which brands of equipment did you research before coming back to GivEnergy, I know you mentioned a couple, but I wondered if you had considered Victron? Thanks, Jim
I did look at Victron but it looked a bit to complex for my needs and lots of components. I started with GivEnergy, looked at Solis + Fox batteries, Solis + Pylontech, SolarEdge with SolarEdge battery and went back to GivEnergy. As I said I went for GivEnergy as I liked the fact they had UK based support and had allowed local control. Its not been without its issues, mainly supply chain problems and a few software bugs, but I still feel I made the right choice.
I was very aware of charge temps. I have have spent time insulating the room the battery's and inverters are in. cold temps 0c are bad for charging but also high temps 35c are not good as well. The inverters will start to reduce there power output when to hot. So I'm looking at a 2.5kW air con system. shame that the F gas regs will not let me install it myself. the units cost from £500 to £700 but installs could add another £2-£3 K more. silly really. I have worked with high pressure systems and vacuums.
Just to let you know the charger was due Q2 2023 but now been told its looking like end of year, As I have waited 1 year for the inverter I have gone with the Zappi to get it all installed at the same time and the Zappi can be adapted so it does not drain the batteries and now with HUB built in and Lan built in
That's annoying. We're currently coping ok with just the granny charger but that delay is a pain. I think the zappi may still drain the battery if charging overnight, a bit like how our eddi does too, unless we set the battery to charge at the same time as the eddi is boosting (a valid strategy). The export margin setting only really works when there is excess solar. If you find a good solution to that I'd be interested to hear it.
I haven't done one of these for a while but I really should do more. There have just been too many other videos to do! But if I get back to doing them I'll let you know. Thanks for the offer.
Hi, great video and well done John, that is incredible value for a 14.7 kwh battery system. I spent £10k on a 5.8 kw panels with just a 5kwh Puredrive battery. Interestingly Puredrive claim that you can discharge at a rate of 5kw, which is useful when I have an electric shower used for over 40 minutes a day. However as with Solis still working out how to get the batteries to do that. Totally agree with John the Solis app is awkward. My mistake as live 200 miles from property was not go with a local installer, as could not keep going there. I am now looking at ways to utilise my large export, no EV, no water cylinder, so going down the route as per Tim, of using air to air heat pump, however only as secondary heating to soak up the excess.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video. Bear in mind you won't get much excess in Winter when you want to use the A2A. The Spring might be pretty good for that though, as the days get longer while it's still cold outside.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Agreed concerning Air to Air, but it is only for secondary heating and to stop exporting so much. My problem is how much Gas will I save by pumping into the house an additional 30kwh of heat per day , which is 30% of my total heat usage. Of course in the summer can reverse it and use as a cooler. Thanks
Hi Tim perhaps you know the answer - I have a givenergy system with 2 9.5 batteries on a dc system with 5kw hybrid converter. The max I can output from the batteries is 2.4 kWh but I regularly need 5+kWh for a swimming pool the only way round it as far as I can see is to install a second inverter one for each battery but givenergy say there are issues have you or any of your subscribers have any other ideas. My set up is 17 jinko x 395, givenergy 5.2 hybrid ( series 1 ) and 2 9.5 batteries. Each panel has a tigo optimiser unit - allows me to monitor each panel. The panels are all located at floor level in my garden and face south.
The 5 kW hybrid inverter can supply 5 kW if you've got an extra 2.6 kW from your solar panels to add to the 2.4 from the battery, so that's your only option at this stage. If you upgraded to a Gen 2 hybrid inverter that can put 3.6 kW from the batteries, so a bit more, but you'd still need solar to top it up to 5 kW. I've also heard that a second inverter might cause problems but keep an eye on news from GivEnergy as they may resolve that issue in future, you never know.
really interesting stuff, thanks john and tim, cool to see how this is being integrated into homeassistant :) the whole idea that as the owner of the kit you can't do all operations and need to provide access to the installer is a huge blocker for me on other platforms as john mentioned. tim, you need to get homeassistant setup :) also solcast can be integrated into homeassistant so john could probably do his 60% charge changes into an automation.
Yes I know I can do a lot more with HA, I only have 2 automations and both are alerts on remaining battery %. If Ohme offered an API I could use excess solar to charge the car but they don't unfortunately so need to consider another EV charger. That's what appeals about Zappi it has a HA plugin. Home Assistant is fantastic!
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney John, I am considering using Home Assistant. I currently have it running on my PC but it isn't great as it stops working when the PC goes into standby mode etc. Guess I need a raspberry PI but do you have any thoughts on what is the best setup ?
@@philipbroggio9315 I have a Raspberry Pi 4 8GB with an Argon M2 case and M2 SSD. The reason I didn't use the SSD card is because they get hammered and the M2 is much quicker and more reliable. It was really easy to install using the excellent video on GivTCP from 'Speak to the Geek' on UA-cam. I did consider running it on my Synology NAS as well but opted for a dedicated Pi and its been solid as a rock since.
Just paid for the 9.5 kwh battery today and installation will be next week...I asked about emergency power supply which would allow certain vital appliances,etc to be power in the event of a power cut.. decided we could not afford it! There was another option on the table for a double socket to come directly out of the battery box to my choice of appliance via an extension cable ..AGAIN..I did not choose this option due to the cost...Over £400 quid to add this on the day of install...In the wrong business springs to mind! I'll be glad when it's up and running and we can start saving a bit:) Oh one last thing...any questions I should be asking or paperwork on the day on install? We are being moved from Bulb to Octopus in a couple of weeks and need to get everything ticked off.
That's fab! I'd say make sure to get your MCS certificate and a copy of any letter sent by the DNO approving the install. Your installer should be able to provide both. John may know if there's anything else but I think that's the important stuff.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Thank you,John...I've also written this down and will request this on Wednesday....On one of the videos I think you mentioned that you had a double socket installed from the battery,did you also opt to have power routed to vital appliances or just the double socket?
Great video and very informative for someone starting out on their solar journey. My installer has been trying to push a Huawei inverter and battery installed in the loft. I wondered if Huawei was in your plans initially and if so why you went for the GivEnergy?
Didn't consider Huawei. The main reason I went with GivEnergy was UK based company (I appreciate most of the equipment will be Chinese) and that option for local control. In these uncertain times I didn't want anything that I could have trouble getting support for in the future or where cloud services were necessary to do basic tasks. For example it looked like the Solis unit I considered you had to go to the front panel to change the overnight battery charge % if you had a sunny day the next day, GivEnergy I can do this from their app, their cloud service or locally from GivTCP/Home Assistant. The ability to call someone based in the UK and get support was also important in case my installer went bust. Personally I would not want any kit in the loft unless it was easily accessible, from time to time you may need to reset it or check status panels/lights and it's far easier at ground level!
Tim, watch out presuming you have a 100A fuse. The cartridge itself will be rated and marked as 100A but may be fitted with a smaller fuse. This will be the case with a "looped" supply and you may be on the end of the loop and not realise it if you were expecting two cables as an indication. You may already have got to the bottom of this so forgive me if you already know.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk They will have to ask the DNO as the cut out is DNO property and installers are not legally allowed to interfere with it without permission. The DNO will talk to you direct as a homeowner however. I've found mine very helpful providing information about un-looping and approving installations.
@@johnh9449 the DNO just turned up on my doorstep to check the main fuse (I assumed they'd have a record of it somewhere and could just email me back but apparently the only way to be sure is to take a look!). It is indeed a 100A fuse, so that's a relief. They're really chunky boys, those fuses, crikey.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk That's good. Yes, they are never sure somebody hasn't replaced it. I was on a looped supply and both my cartridge (which you can't go by) and the fuse within was 100A rated even though it should have been 60A. It's now unlooped to match the fuse!
Givenergy vs Libbi: This, and a discussion with an installer, is making me question whether the Libbi is worth it. I have a Zappi, and want an Eddi, and I thought the single control surface I'd have with a Libbi would be useful. But I can imagine my energy priorities are going to be pretty static: Any generation from PV should go first to the house, second to the battery, third to the car, and fourth to the Eddi (only because I'll have an air source heat pump and can drive the hot water from the battery at (hopefully) a SCOP of 3.5). If I can build a system that realises those priorities, I can't see myself needing to change it much. Am I missing something? If that _is_ the case, what's the advantage of getting a Libbi / is it worth? Looking back at their promotional material, they talk about doing something like a virtual power plant. That's cool and I think is really useful, but it's not likely to make me so much money that it outweighs the additional cost of a Libbi over a Giv-Bat 9.5. What do people think?
I think the main potential issue is the zappi draining the battery if it's DC coupled (with a hybrid inverter). The libbi would talk to the zappi/eddi so wouldn't allow that to happen, presumably. If you AC couple a GivEnergy battery then you can put CT clamps everywhere and the zappi/eddi will then know where the excess is flowing and divert appropriately without draining the battery. However, you'd then need one inverter for the solar panels and a GivEnergy AC inverter for the battery (which is only 3 kW, so slightly below the 3.6 kW charge/discharge rate of the Gen 2 hybrid inverters). There are pros and cons to both setups but the AC coupled route gives you maximum visibility of the energy flows at the expense of some handy functionality from the hybrid inverters, such as charging from solar even during a power-cut, which isn't possible with AC coupled batteries. One thing to look at is the GivEnergy all-in-one battery, which now has a data sheet available on the GivEnergy website. It looks like it's gunning for the Powerwall and the specs are very impressive. No idea what the price is likely to be though. That's AC coupled too, so you'd need another inverter in any case (or micro-inverters on the panels) so you'd get the same visibility on energy flows. Too many options!
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks. I need to get my head round DC Vs AC coupling. I've been leaning towards micro inverters on the panels anyway, to mitigate some shading.
@@AndrewSmithThomas yeah, I think they're a good idea. There was an excellent video by Gary Does Solar about them recently, which made a lot of sense. I wish I'd known about them earlier before I got my system design nailed down.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Yeah, ua-cam.com/video/9GvhDhCSJgo/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/v-deo.html are worth a watch for anyone else wanting to look into this.
I think the key thing to remember with EV chargers is can they have a CT clamp to see excess solar being produced. DC coupled does make it a bit more difficult but not impossible and DC coupled brings advantages too. A DC coupled battery has less conversion loss and the solar panels can charge it directly meaning the inverter losses don’t exist from roof to battery and any inverter limits are not an issue. The zappi has the ability to monitor solar export and as the car needs 1.4kWh to start charging on a type 2 it’s easy to monitor for that level of excess and zappi will kick in when export exceeds 1.4kWh. If the solar is being exported its fairly safe to say the battery is full or can’t take the level of solar being produced. The end game is always to prevent export to grid and consume yourself.
Really insightful thank you. I am very close to purchasing a similar system GiveEnergy 9.5kw. I have a couple of unknowns. I am looking to get AC inverter is this what you have installed? (I already have a small solar system in place but looking to exapand later). A concern I recently came across is the apparent poor customer service from GivEnergy. Do you have any experience of this?
John has a 5 kW hybrid inverter, not the 3 kW AC inverter. I'll let him answer the customer service question in more detail, although he did say they were very responsive.
I think you can find poor customer experiences for most companies on the internet if you look. The main issues I have had with GivEnergy is availability of kit and accessories such as connecting cables/dongles. I hope these are now resolved or much better but in my install time it was a big frustration as were the distrubitors who were less than easy to deal with from what my installer said. In terms of customer service, the times I have spoken with GivEnergy they have been helpful and knowledgeable. I have had one minor defect on the 9.5 battery and I will admit it has taken a bit of push to get them to come and fix that, they agreed straight away it needed fixing but the priority was low as the system was working and that went on for 3+ months and I had to be pushy in the end, they are coming Friday 3rd March to fix hopefully. I would say they are UK based, answer the phones (admittedly sometimes a bit slowly) but they do answer, they fix faults in software, sometimes 2-3 attempts before it work properly, but they listen to their customers and seem to react/respond. The community support is good and it's a very open system so even in the event they do not respond well I have a lot of local control. I would say they are as good as the rest of the bunch and probably better as they have UK based support and many don't. Hope that helps.
Northburn Solar of Cramlington, I do know he is extremely busy though. CareTech Systems of Cramlington are an electricians who have done a lot of my Electrical work but not Solar and are now doing GivEnergy so they may also be worth a call.
I have not watched all your videos as of yet and I would love to know your thoughts on what you think ...We are at this very moment having solar panels installed 10 x 305w panels (no choice on higher wattage panels) We need to choose between one 9.5 Givenergy battery or two batteries 5.2 kw with a 3.6 gen 1 inverter ..We will be looking to charge them on the lower tariffs as and when required....Annoyed that we can't buy the higher inverter without all the rigmarole...I understand the 9.5 batt can fully discharge but the 5.2 cannot...Do I go for the one or the two? Thanks for any advise in advance and I'm now needed by the roof panel fitters...catch you guys later:) Sorry for the rushed question!
No problem. From what I can tell the 5.2 kWh batteries have a depth of discharge of 80% while the 9.5 kWh one has a DoD of 100%. So for the 2 x 5.2 kWh you'd get 8.32 kWh of usable capacity compared to the full 9.5 kWh. So based on that I'd go for the single 9.5 kWh (plus it's a bit neater). There's not a lot in it but that's what I'd do. Best of luck with your install!
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thank you...That's the way we are going to go, I think..possibly less maintenance for problem solving as well...I have just got off the phone ref the 9.5 batt as I wanted to know how the 9.5 could discharge fully...I found out that the 9.5 is actually 11.5 and does work the same way as the 5.2 by the way of discharging..Did no know about "ripple" and will be having a read...🐼I find it hard to understand why our Gas &Electric is set to go up again in April after seeing the price of Gas and Electricity has dropped?!
Agree with Tim a single 9.5 is the way to go, better warranty I think too if I remember rightly. The reason I got a 5.2+9.5 was because I simply couldn't have had the benefit from 2 x 9.5's in the time window.
Hi Tim, thanks for your very informative videos. I hope you don’t think this is an impertinent question, but would you be willing to say how much your solar installation is going to cost please? Also, a quick summary of your design spec. (I know you are having two GE batteries, a 9.5 and 5.2). My installer is very keen on an AC coupled battery install for my proposed solar system. Any thoughts on that please? Thanks in anticipation.
As it happens I don't know what the final cost will be as the design has changed a bit since I first got the quote. We're getting it all installed in a week or so though, so I was planning on doing a summary video shortly after that, if you're happy to wait a little while for all the details. Regarding AC vs hybrid inverters there are pros and cons to each. AC will require a second inverter but you're able to add CT clamps between the PV and battery which makes monitoring easier, and control over EV chargers and solar diverters easier. Hybrid inverters are a bit more efficient at charging the batteries and you only need the one inverter, but it's more complicated to get it to work well with EV chargers or solar diverters (although not impossible). It all depends on what else you want to install and how you want to use it so there's no simple answer really.
Tim's absolutely right. Hybrid inverters efficiency is a benefit when it comes to Solar energy filling the battery as it is DC to DC and there is virtually no loss in moving the energy from the panels to the batteries. With an AC coupled there will be some losses, this varies between systems. If your inverter provider has an integrated car charger option then the potential to drain the battery to fill the car should be prevented. There are ways to do this with a Hybrid system, Zappi being one of them which can monitor export levels and divert based on seeing export to grid at 1.4kWh and above diverting this to the car automatically.
Heat pumps is a hard pick. It would have to be a high temp heat pump. but you need to run it at low flow temps.. From my searches I like the look of the "RED heat pump" looks like a doctor who dalek. no buffer tank needed.
@@AKDizzle Your welcome, main thing to consider when selecting someone is their trading record and for me they weren't just handing me a brochure and a standard quote but listening to my requirements based on their experience. This was really important to me as was protecting my deposit payment in case they disappeared. I only paid the next instalments once equipment was in the garage ready to go.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney that's a really good point on the deposit. I'm seeing a lot of horror stories online. Will keep that in mind. You've also made me reconsider my project, I might follow your example now and redo the whole roof and get integrated panels instead... Thanks again
Ripple wind farms: I had looked into this and _thought_ they made no financial sense. But looking again ... Their 'Extended high government' scenario appears to be roughly equivalent to getting 3.9% compound interest over 25 years, and their more pessimistic 'Central government' is equivalent to 2.2%. Assuming I've done my maths correctly (and Tim may remember how bad I was at advanced calculus ...). So ... have I got that right? The stock market - particularly US tech stocks - generally get around 4% growth year on year, and the S&P 500 seems to have grown around 11% each year for the last 10. So there's probably better options if you're just looking to make money. But I'd probably be happy getting 3.9% and knowing I'm contributing to a good cause, but 2.2% is a pretty poor rate of return. What do people think?
Yeah, it's not the highest return on an investment but I bet it feels better than investing in the stock market! I've not done the sums but I expect you're about right (I don't remember you being *that* bad).
Craig fartha is earning 27p per kWh for the next year so that’s actually a decent return if Kirk Hill gets the same price when it’s fixed later this year. Even if Kirk Hill gets 20p my 4000kWh investment should return £800 on my £2300 investment, that’s 34% in year one which I am very happy with!
Great videos. I will have my system installed soon ( I hope as DNO delayed everything) 14x450w with 2 batteries 9.5 + 5.2 and with south facing roof is south west should be lovely. With electric car ( leaf 40k) we should be completely off grid for 8-10 months. Happy to share some info with you Tim as this video and very comprehensive information is golden. Let me know how I can contact you…email, text Speak soon . Zibi
Sounds great. Take a look on the About tab and you should find an email address there (note: only seems to work on a desktop, not mobile, for some reason).
I designed the system to be able to charge the battery's from 10% to 90% within 4 hours or less to take advantage of the off peak price. or if variable tariffs later. I had 3 phase installed to do this. Each inverter can pull from the grid 11.6 kW that's 34.8kw an hour charge rate. I have dropped this to 9kW as I'm charging EV's as well. This system can run the house with out the grid. With the plan that it will run a heat pump for 18 + hours in the coldest months. Summer time I will be making about 100kWh a day at best. this will charge EV's and hot water. + fill the battery.
Great video. I'm currently considering givenergy. Does Gen 2 offer a larger output rate? From watching this video I've gathered that gen 1 does 2.6kw? Thanks
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk thanks and good morning to you. In that case what's the purpose in the inverter being 5kW? I assumed thats how much can be drawn in total from battery and solar and the rate it could allow through for charging an attached battery.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk yeah. Funny enough I've just been on live chat with givenergy about this and they confirmed the same. For myself and my partner I don't think we would see much benefit from the 5kw in the winter (we work a normal 9-5) but massive benefit in the summer to avoid our peaks coming from the grid. Apparently the 5kW (gen 2) can only charge at 3.6 too? So with octopus go could only charge a maximum of roughly 14kw within the window of opportunity overnight
@@theog_mrb87 yes, the charge and discharge rates are both 3.6 kW, so 14 kWh charge in 4 hrs. That's partly why we went with a 9.5 kWh plus 5.2 kWh batteries, since that's the most we could charge up overnight.
I have a 7 year old hot water tank and was thinking its ok. But it looses about 24kWh over 2 hours (50mm foam insulated) Sunamp have vacuum insulation they loose about 0.9 kWh over 24 hours they don't have a problem with legionnaires disease. there more compact.
24 kWh over two hours sounds extreme. Perhaps you missed a decimal point? Modern cylinders will lose about 1.5 kWh over 24 hours. I hear good things about the sunamp.
I watched it when I was on holiday. Everyday the myenergi Eddi would heat the tank to 70° C full (max setting) It was losed about 2 kilowatts overnight and through the day. And the Eddi would add another 2 kW. The pattern repeated for 2 weeks
My parents installed a summer in their house upon my recommendation. It works well. The problems with it are the cost. And the poor souls that have to lift it into place. The weight was 250 kg It bent the sack cart wheels.
How about not bothering with the solar panels at all & just get the 9.5kw battery & emitter? Charge for 5 hours on Octopus Go 7.5p a kw & then use that 9.5kw electric through the day? Guarenteed 3500 kw of energy a year for 7.5- a kw??
That is an option but you'll get better savings with PV added too. With good export tariffs like Octopus Flux now you can be making quite a bit of money through the summer.
Help request:) "My inverter" page... My page states lead acid for the battery and then switches to info lithium and back to lead acid.I have a 9.5kwh battery but the info below the battery info states 6.40kwh batt. No updates are available...Could one of you guys check your own page for this info
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Hi,Tim...Could you let me know what it states below that information ref battery? Mine states 640kwh when my battery is actually a 9.5kwh. I've been on to both Givenergy and fitter for the last two weeks...Original fitter came out today and did not know what was going on with it...He's done exactly the same as I did nearly two weeks ago and contacted Givenergy who have forced charged it all day and it still not working...I've explained to them that the software looks all wrong but they don't seem to be listening:(
@@runningpanda6570 I have 14.75 kWh batteries in two packs. I really don't think I can offer any help here, this is very much a GivEnergy support issue. I'm sorry you're having problems, keep trying with GivEnergy.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks for letting me know the info below the battery on your page...Been onto both GE and install team and they are going to try and get somebody out that knows a bit more about the cabling side,etc...GE still believe it's a cabling problem...Thanks again for looking for me:)
It's a bit disappointing they install almost 6kwh of Solar Panels than are told "our gen 1 inverter can only charge the batteries at 2kwh 🤨😌" A bit of a SCAM really
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk for 90% of people even if they show the Data , it will be like showing Chinese to the French For people like you & me Technical , we now conclude 16 solar panels were not required only 5 solar panels are currently in use and if he upgrades to gen 3 inverter 8 panels will be in use Knowing a Battery Imput & inverter charging capacities is crucial
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk also is quite clear despite all the Solar he is using way more energy than what is able produce at 10:29 February 2023 he used almost 9kwh and produced 1kwh =£0.33 saved Dont get me Wrong i know during the day he will produce more kw however its a fraction of his daily usage 😒🤨😌 is saving around £4 a day which is poor considering his £12,000 investment he is still stuck to the grid like the rest of us
@@niceboy60 I'm not sure who you're criticising here. GivEnergy, the installer, or John? Regardless of your answer I don't think you fully understand how this system works or how it pays for itself over time. The battery can be charged overnight at cheap rate as well as being charged by excess solar. That also saves you money. During the summer you will need almost no grid energy at all. All in all this sort of system will pay for itself in 6 or 7 years. What more do you want?
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk I m not criticising either one of you , I ,m criticising who ever managed to convince you it saves you money while you are still stuck to the Grid and paying £300 a month in loans + grid prices ,what you say makes sense about the 7 years pay off however there's nothing in there which will last 7 years lipo batteries last around 3000 cycles (not unlimited) as the Give Energy website indicates
Also, the Ripple piece, not sure that works quite how you think it does - you just get a kick back at wholesale rate so it's a discount rather than actual power to your house. Guessing you might know this, but didn't seem that way when you touched on it.
Yes, I'm aware it's a discount off your bill, but you could consider it as something you're generating and providing to the grid, it's just not coming from your own roof.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Fair enough, so I assume the calculations you've done in the other video where you discuss your annual shortfall in production is in relation to that 👍👍 Quick question, how did you seemingly stop your generation going to the grid? There's a video of yours where the connection appears to be switched off in the home screen of the app (as in that part of the circle connecting the solar to the grid icon is gone)
@@Soulrollsdeep yes, exactly, I consider the Ripple generation to be offsetting some of the demand that I'll inevitably have to draw from the grid during the winter. Regarding stopping export to the grid, I'm not necessarily trying to prevent it as during the summer you can get some very good export rates using a tariff like Octopus Flux, so exporting is actually very financially beneficial (as well as being beneficial for the grid). But we can go "off grid" if we want to by using our EPS mode as demoed in this video: ua-cam.com/video/HD5KqC7Mfv8/v-deo.htmlsi=ZWBE-voYk2-U4fvu Otherwise, if the battery isn't yet full the excess generation will top it up, which is the first thing you should be doing with any excess. Only once the battery is full does the excess go out to the grid.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk absolutely, I wasn't clear enough in my statement. I've had some odd situations in which more solar has gone to the grid than to the home, only noticed it a couple of times but I would rather isolate the grid out of the equation until the battery is full. As an aside, I'm getting a pergola built in the rear garden to add another ten panels or so (we're perfectly south facing) and then add the additional 9kwh battery (maybe two!) and the intent is to use octopus FIT tarrif at 15p/kwh, build up enough excess to offset our heating bill during winter (hopefully completely, but we're not getting our ASHP until the end of January 😭). Ours is going to be an air to water though, so can't really compare it to your setup as far as I'm aware
@@Soulrollsdeep the battery should automatically charge when there's excess solar, there's nothing you need to do to manage it. If the sun is going in and out of cloud quickly you might get a few moments where some goes to the grid, but it usually doesn't take long to balance. I just let it do its thing and most of the time it's all good.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks, just more evidence that 90% of "experts" don't know what they're on about. Two electricians who came to do the work, a battery reseller company AND the company who sold me the setup in the first place. Crazy! I'm just about to start a renewables installation course, so I intend to become an SME in all this, maybe we could partner up at some point!
@@SoulrollsdeepI'm constantly amazed by this. You'd think professionals would know what they're doing. You really have to be on the ball yourself! Good luck with the course, let me know how you get on.
Great first show Tim, will be interesting to see who else u get on the show. John are u happy to say which supplier and roofer you used ? I'm looking to get the same done to my house in northshields. @sydney1812
Interesting that John is similar age to me & recently retired techy. & I've moved from Northumberland, near John to Gloucestershire, near Tim . . . Like John, I started looking at solar back in 2012 but decided against it as tech was less mature, no batteries, FIT scheme ending & finacial equation was not so positive. . . But now re-considering all renewable options. . . I was interested on the comments about lead-times & the fact that the GivEnergy Inverter rev 2 was not available last year hence John having rev1 installed. Would he be likely to retrofit in future ? And what about the newly announced GivEnergy "All-In-One" unit which seems to be designed for future expandability, whole-house back-up, better current-carrying capacity etc. . Difficult to find out much about it as it is still 'awaiting more information' . . but with a largish house I wonder whether it is worth waiting for at all !? How easy would it be to upgrade an inverter system ? Can you re-sell the old inverter / batteries ? Of course I can't wait too long & need to start on the renewable 'journey' somewhere.
I notice that GivEnergy have put a spec sheet up for the all-in-one system (also for their Gateway). I'm intending to do a quick spec video on both shortly as I think it looks very impressive. The likely price is another question, however. If I was starting from scratch I'd be seriously tempted to go down the micro-inverter plus GivEnergy all-in-one AC coupled route, depending on when that's likely to be available. I'll leave John to answer your question about swapping the inverter.
I have considered reselling once Gen2 is shipping but I am not finding the 2.4 limit is too big an issue at the moment. If I get an ASHP or other electric heating that may change. I did get the extended warranty but I don’t think that’s transferable unfortunately.
Hi Tim. If you are interested I could tell our Solar story. We are very near the end of a journey to reduce our carbon footprint. We made good choices and a few less good ones on the way but -I'm pretty happy with the end result Solar, EV, Zappi, Tesla battery, Air to water heat pump, mini induction hob ..... Crispin Hodges - Ashtead - I could not find your email address so I'm using this for initial contact
You can find the email address on the About tab, but it doesn't show up on mobile, you have to use a web browser. Ping me on there and I'll see if I can schedule you in (although I've got a fair few in the queue already, just to warn you).
This was so interesting and reassuring to know that it is a process of learning for most people. I really do want to reduce my carbon footprint but feel very inadequate in knowledge. As my planned solar installation is using up my spare cash I cannot afford to make many costly mistakes. I really appreciate the help and support that people like Tim and John are giving to novices like me.
I'm glad we could help!
Hi, as a person who has only had solar installed a couple of months as John says work out your usage before designing your system. For example, I had only a 5kwh battery, however not sure financially whether it is worth increasing the battery or diverting the excess to other appliances, i.e. air to air heat pump. FYI despite only a 5kwh battery another 5kwh battery would only give me an extra 3kwh per day, when the sun is out. Of course there would be extra storage for off peak loading on cloudy days. However this would only save me an extra 50p per day on cloudy days. If not a lot of cash my recommendation would be maximise the panels, with a 5kwh battery which would smooth out day usage when the sun pops in and out. Then you can really see your usage and how much excess you have, or modify your usage. Then you are in a position to ascertain whether another battery would be worth it. The only extra you would pay would be vat instead of installing all at the same time. Good luck.
@@laurencedamazer2260 or use my ridiculous spreadsheet, which includes heating demand and charging of batteries during off-peak tariff times. That allowed me to find the sweet spot for battery capacity to help cover the heating while remaining cost effective.
I agree that maximising the solar panels is the most important thing though.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Hi, I do not think your spreadsheet would cope with my situation. Rented to students, no control on usage. 40 minutes a day showers happening anytime from 05.00 to midnight. In addition not fully occupied any 3 months a year, i.e. Xmas, which was a real bonus. No I think I need a programmer, oh you are one! That excludes Air to Air heating. Thanks.
@@laurencedamazer2260 ah, I did think 40 mins of showers was quite high. That explains it! One day I'll get around to coding a comprehensive domestic energy simulation tool but it might take me a while!
Thanks GUYS!
Really enjoyed that, looking forward to the series. It was great to hear the feedback and its given me comfort as i'm on a similar journey and my scaffolding is going up next Friday with 6.3kwp of panels, Givenergy Gen2 5kw Inv and 9.5kwh battery going in, to complement the Zappi charger we already have. I have also just knocked up a home assistant instance in readiness. Some good advice and looking forward to hopefully having a similar outcome. The Eddi will be my next project before then tackling the heating system in a year or two.
Great news about your install! And good luck with the rest of your upgrades.
Great interview. I learnt a lot from that. I look forward to the next one!
These interviews with different systems are a great idea. Look forwards to more!
Great idea to have these solar stories.
When I initially researched about solar a year ago it was just from Facebook groups. But it's great to hear people's stores in person and also things they would have done differently.
I had installed 5.6kWp worth of solar on a solis hybrid inverter coupled with 14.2kWh worth of Pylontech batteries.
Best investment I have ever done.
Also hoping to get a V2X unit installed in the coming weeks coupled with my 39kWh LEAF. If all goes ahead as planned we will probably be looking at getting a 2nd LEAF 👍
That's great to hear.
Thank you guys, that was so helpful. We're trying to understand our requirements at the moment and ready to commit anytime. Such an informative discussion and you're both very articulate. Thanks again.
You're welcome.
Really good video, I got my Solar system installed by Eon 4yrs ago. At the time I didn’t no much about the systems but looking back I struck lucky ( I think). They installed a 4.3 SolarEdge for the Solar Panels with the optimisers and Victron Multiplus inverter model 48/3000/35 with 2 Pylontech batteries @2.4Kwh each. And a CCGX to control the Victron Now I’ve just upgraded to a Victron Multiplus 48/5000/70 with 3 more pylontech batteries (total 16 KwH) upgrade on the wiring . System is now a lot better from before as the inverter running at35amp would only give me Approx 1700watts, but now I can boil a 3kw kettle and others with ease. Also I can do all of the things using the ESS controller from the CCGX like you can do on your video. Food for thought? P.S. I also prefer my system is that 1 of the components fail I can still use it. Hop this makes sense.
Some great information in there. I have recently had a 6.9kW SolarEdge PV system, battery, plus a ASHP installed all at once and your videos on energy usage calculations helped hugely in understanding the effectiveness of it all.
There are so many installers that just push the volume of installs rather than the quality, in both Solar PV and ASHPs, it can become a rather bumpy journey.
I would be happy to talk through my experiences if it would help anyone make theirs less painful!
That'd be fab, drop me an e-mail using the About tab link and we'll schedule you in.
What a great idea. I have looked at so many people and there projects. So that I could build my own system. I have installed myself a 3 phase grid tied Victron system with 82 kWh of battery I have 14.4 Kw of solar still to install to add to my 6 kW of solar on my roof.
Integrating Myenergi and home assistance. with other smart systems. 2 EVs, Eddi for hot water. The plan to upgrade to a heat pump. with the trouble of making it work in a old 1904 solid wall house.
Goodness me that's a huge system. Sounds amazing.
An excellent interview. Looking forward to others.
Tim, This was a very useful and interesting video. John gave some really useful advice and information. We are just having a GivEnergy system installed which is very similar in configuration to John's and it was reassuring to know that this seems to be a good system. The tips he gave especially on things like SolarCast will be invaluable when my system is up and running in a few days. I would definitely like to see more in this series.
Cool, thanks for the feedback. I hope to set up a few more over the coming months, so keep your eye out!
I have a Zappie and a DC coupled home battery and have managed to get it to work with excess solar without discharging the home batteries works ok even on the odd day in January December when you have full charge on home battery
Good to know @terrymackenzie6784
Very useful story - just as I am thinking about a Givenergy system.
Ours is being installed right now!
I'm about halfway through putting on a solar system. So far 3.2KW panels fitted with a 5kw solis
hybrid inverter and one 4.8kw pylon battery. Now giving about 7/8 kw hrs per day and increasing. Plan to do second stage which is another 3.3 Kw panels and another battery later in June. So far spent £4,900 in total and the other 3.3KW panels will be £1400, not counting the second battery which are £1700 .
Saw advantage of battery today as Boss was using 6KW s of power at one stage, but only producing 2kw from panels at time, so battery provided the balance.
Fitting on two separate roofs (different buildings), so running 6mm solar cable for link up. Have own tower so working off that to reduce scaffolding costs.
One big disadvantage will be not having a MCS cert (unless I buy one).
Wow, impressive work. Not sure I'd be comfortable doing all that myself!
I would say to anyone thinking of buying solar in the next month or so just to hang on a bit. Reason is panel prices are dropping, just had e mail in from my supply company and they are offering Canadian solar 405w mono perc haiku panels in black for £97 each now plus vat.
Saw on internet, company offering solar batteries, so hit the link and they called me. Told them want I wanted , not what they wanted to give me, and got forwarded to the company boss. He then quoted 4K for one 4.8kw battery. ( hate it when they give rounded up numbers and no breakdown). Told him I wanted one not two, to which he told me some BS about being really expensive. He then informed me he was paving “well over 2K each “ for them, to which I offered to sell him 10 at £1900 quid each. He didn’t take me up on offer which are selling new today at £ 1316.88 plus vat. Lots of players quoting silly prices currently for something that’s easy to fit. Just need access, and some spare time. Rail support roof hooks are easy to fit, and you can just do one at a time
An extremely informative video about real world experience of solar, very useful and interesting from beginning to end. What a great idea for a series, looking forward to watching more.
Thanks for putting this video together, great insight. My install is planned for mid April, 14 panels plus 3.6kW Giv Energy Inverter and 9.5kWh Giv Battery. (across a few roof faces so using Tigos on every panel also).
Struggled most with sizing the battery! Using roughly 25 kWh a day but drew the line at the cost.
Looking forward to learning the surprises as John said in the video :)
P.S. My numbers suggest that another 9.5 battery would still yield results, but added another £3k or so...
Yeah, adding an extra 9.5 kWh battery might not necessarily be worthwhile if you can't charge both fully overnight during cheap rate tariff times. The inverter limits charging to 3.6 kW so you'd only manage 14.4 kWh in four hours. Might be better to go for an extra 5.2 kWh battery instead (which is what I'm doing).
Really great Qs Tim and brilliant info shared, thank you! One of the best videos I've seen on this subject.
Thank you, I'm glad you like the video.
LOADS of great invaluable comments from you guys!
I had asked two so-called Top managers which panels I would be receiving and got the same response from both...I won't name the company but was told 305w panels and it turns out they are 405w panels.Some good news for a change! This offer was/is part of a govt scheme and we have had to go with the flow with zero advise and plenty of lost working days through no shows...The 9.5kwh battery was £5 shy off £7000 a lot of money for us to lay out but I truly believe will be worth it!
Running Panda, feel assured you are not alone. I'm guessing you went with the same company I had through a gvt scheme!
Awful experience kind of sums it up and knowing what I do, would have done a better DIY job at half the cost!
If it wasn't for the certificates.
Still it's finally done.
@@dhall9212Hi, Unit has eventually been installed that's after they turned up without the battery on day of install. I'm still awaiting certificate paperwork (not had a reply to state if/when they will send it/email it) There's a lot to get your head around and without a paper manual it makes it even harder...There does not seem to be a setting to stop exporting to the grid (in my case at the moment they are getting it free) until my battery is fully charged! Still early days:)
@@runningpanda6570 up to 60/70 Watts randomly going to the grid, you can ignore! That is normal as the system is balancing itself out to try and keep your import at zero. You will see that up to 60/70 Watts randomly comes from the grid either to the home or battery.
This, I was told by givenergy tech is normal to keep the systems communication working.
@@dhall9212 Exporting 1.2kw at the moment...I have 52% battery charged and 3.2kw coming in from the solar.It's hard to juggle:)...If I could set the export at 60/70 watts I'd be happy with that...Thanks for the info:)
@@runningpanda6570 do you have a givenergy set up?
If so, on the app( on your phone)or the givenergy cloud (on a laptop) you can go to settings and reduce the discharge to zero and/or set discharge times.
Even doing so minimal amounts up to 60 Watts will still migrate to and from the grid to keep the system balanced!
Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions, I'll help if I can.
I'm not sure on other systems. 👍
I have a HyperVolt charger which can be setup to use excess solar to charge the car. I’ve recently had the GivEnergy batteries installed to compliment my solar system. I’m using Home Assistant to prevent the battery being drained during my Intelligent Octopus charging sessions which seems to work okay so far.
With home assistant… I have a BP oval charger, and added a Sonoff Mini to control the relay that turns on/off the charger.
That means Home Assistant can enable/disable the charge
Very handy.
Interesting..I am not really qualified to modify the charger but I do think Home Assistant could be a useful method to divert excess solar. If only the Ohme cable had an API I wouldn't need to change it.
Very informative for the newbie especially the last section. What many don’t realise is that you are buying an Integrated System which has to function. As someone who is familiar with electrical power systems and having re-wired my house with individual load feeds to specific areas, I started evaluating PV systems /chargers /and their nuances since last July and it took me 6 months of detailed study and planning to decide on what I needed rather than be sold some Marketing Hype. I need a new roof, so decided on x13 inset panels on 3 roof sides but with micro inverters behind each panel (no bulky central inverter) and no battery. I will see how this performs over 1 yr and later expand PV to the garage roof and adding a Tesla PW.
Nice. Yeah, having the micro-inverters makes expanding later nice and easy. I reckon you wouldn't regret getting a battery too.
My battery would have to be installed externally at the back of the house in W Yorkshire. I’m familiar with battery performance issues in winter and this year is no exception with forums full of complainants where batteries have been exposed to 5c and below with the exception of Tesla which has worked well even in Inverness. Tesla PW are very costly having a 1yr waiting list. By that time, they will be more proven in our climate rather than California where they are most popular
@@wajopek2679 ah yes, that is a consideration. I'm lucky enough to be able to install the batteries in a garage which is integral to the house so never gets too cold.
Very interesting chat. John commented that one of his electric showers was less efficient. All electric showers are 100% efficient. Higher power requires more water flow for same temperature. There is no waste heat. If all the heat didn't go into the water the shower would catch fire!
A fair point.
Hi @johnh9449, you are of course electrically correct. ;-). I was referring to the cost per shower in terms of efficiency, looking at the specs on the showers one is a 10.5kWh the other a 7.5kWh, the 7.5kWh does the job fine and there definitely is a difference in what 4 minutes of each shower consumes looking at the data. I have a bigger decision to make on these if we get a hot water cylinder and remove the combo boiler as it would logically make more sense to take the electric showers out and put standard cylinder driven ones in.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Hi John, You get more water flow with a 10.5kW shower for the same water temperature compared to 7.5kW so arguably you could spend less time in the 10.5kW shower by the time the same volume of water has flowed (so the same cost) but you'd have to speed up lathering and evening else too😉
Does your 10.5kW shower have a half power setting? If so you could spend longer in the shower than the 7.5kW with the same temperature and cost. Just trying to save you the expense of changing showers with an alternative.
Of course if you get a water cylinder then it would be cheaper changing the showers if the cylinder is heated by a heat pump. Watch the size of tank and number of showers though if the average shower takes perhaps 60 litres. You may want to keep one electric shower in case the hot water stops working or runs cold.
@@johnh9449 Thanks, its a pretty old shower to be honest, the Redring Glow one we have is much better and more controllable as it has a proper temperature display and seems to be more consistent once set.
I too know what I want to be installed, Givenergy 95 battery and Gen2 5kw inverter. It has been really difficult to get any installers to supply PV and these. Most like you say sell a 'package', take it or leave it and will not supply or install Giverergy. I've contacted many companies, most will only do local work, others no Givenergy. I did find two installers who would supply and fit Givenergy at a cost though. When I queried the high price of the battery and inverter one company said, 'we have to make money on them', one other company said 'they are making no money on them' - what I pointed out that I could purchase a 9.5 kwh battery and 5kw Gen2 inverter £1000 less than what they were going to charge me they were not interested. There are a few online companies who have these in stock now. Both companies said they would not fit if I supplied the battery and inverter.
Check the GivEnergy website, they have a "find an installer" tool that might help.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks
Good discussion!
Very interesting chat. Currently awaiting planning permission for a 9.2Kw ground mounted solar system with a 8Kw inverter and two 10kw batteries. Will be coupled with a 6.2Kw air source heat pump (being installed at the end of this month).
Wow, beefy setup, nice.
Interesting article and thank you as I am about to have a not dissimilar system installed based on 16 panels, GiveEnergy Hybrid Gen 2 inverter, GiveEnergy 9.5KW Gen 2 battery. Like John I went round a lot of manufacturer's solutions before deciding on this. Only addition I have specified are Tigo Optimisers for the panels (awaiting arrival). These are more for providing individual panel O/P info' (hopefully useful in the future when fault finding) rather than overcoming any shading problems. Found the EV charging comments useful as probably getting an EV in 12 months time by which point should have more experience of using the system.
Very nice. Our system is getting installed next week, can't wait!
Nigel I have the same system but with 20 panels and additional 8.2 battery but have Tigos and gone with Zappi
Great video. Currently looking at a 9.5kw givenergy system to go with my existing solar PV system as 2/3 of the energy generated goes back to the grid even with an electric car and Hypervolt EV charger
Great advice, if i had a pound for every Give energy cable fiasco or Bluetti customer “service” issue from 22 I’d be rich! Caveat emptor! Great advice about not scaling to the tariff at the end, something I’m doing alongside our rental set up!
I can't tell you how helpful this video is. A brilliant opportunity for us all to learn. Thank you John! We're in Whitley Bay and funnily enough I work in IT too! The 1.4KW car tip is absolute gold! I'd like to get a Giv gen2 system, but quotes are scandalous up here, I'm finding...
As you say: data data data! I've bought a Glow display & CAD and am shipping data to home assistant. Our average electricity use is 10kw-12kh so not bad.
It's very gratifying to hear you say that, thank you. John was a great first guest and I hope to have many more on the channel in due course.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk It was brilliant Tim. Your style was excellent - great active listening, letting John talk without interruption. I wonder if you have any recommendations in terms of payback calculation spreadsheets?
@@Th3Dean thank you, that's very kind of you to say. Regarding spreadsheets this video by Gary Does Solar runs you through a very good example: ua-cam.com/video/FvjuJQZRrvA/v-deo.html
Alternatively I have a much more complicated one on a previous video that includes heating as well but I think Gary's one is probably a better place to start. Gary makes the best videos about solar on UA-cam, hands down.
Thanks @th3Dean try Northburn Solar in Cramlington, I do know he is very busy at the moment, if you have trouble contacting him let me know and I will call him on his mobile and ask him to call you.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney That's so kind John, I'd really appreciate that. I have emailed him twice, but just get an out of office saying how busy they are. Would be (hopefully) a straightforward job for them as we are fully South facing and the roof is brand new.
Really interesting stuff - I've used Home assistant previously and went for a self-built system instead, but it looks much more polished now, so going to have a little look around it again and see what's changed with it in terms of inverter control and integrations for monitoring
Once you've got it up and running you can show me how to do it ;)
The saving sessions can be gamed - actively charge your battery for three hours running up to one hour before the session - rake in profits…
Except if your regular import is close to zero anyway it won't actually save you much. I'm not quite sure how the saving sessions work but I thought it was calculated relative to your usual usage.
It is - but there is an “in day adjustment” which looks at the change in usage before the session (compared with normal) and assumes your whole day will have shifted by that, and so charge the car for theee hours “save” 7kWh - more than pays for the peak energy import…
@@JohnR31415 I tried that on the last session and got 22 Octopoints and cost £2.50 more, decided not to try again! ;-)
@@JohnR31415 ah, gotcha
Hi Tim! I've been watching your videos with interest and I'm curious as to why you chose to go with Givenergy? I myself was very interested in their products until I stumbled across their Trustpilot reviews which unfortunately makes for some pretty grim reading. I'm now thinking of hanging it out until the Myenergi libbi battery becomes available which according to Myenergi should be with their wholesalers by end of May early June. I know you were considering the libbi and wondered why in the end you chose Givenergy? Did I miss something in one of your other videos😀
Mostly it came down to value for money. The GivEnergy system gets you more kWh per £ than the libbi. I also know a few people with GivEnergy systems and they've not had any problems and are very happy with it. Online reviews are often populated by those who have experienced the most problems so likely offer a biased sample. It's a risk you take with any large purchase of course. With the libbi being so new too there are likely to be teething problems in any case, so who knows really. All I can say is so far I've been very happy with our system and have had no problems, although I've only had it a month so it's early days.
Gold dust! Like Tim, I like to research all the ins and outs before taking the plunge so this video has been invaluable in helping me decide which setup would suit me best. I am however struggling, as Tim did, to find a passionate knowledgable, installer. Being in the same region as Tim, the icing on the cake would be if Tim had mentioned his specific installer.
Here you go 😉 www.b-lineservices.co.uk/
Or did you mean John's installer?
My apologies, i meant John's installers up here in the North East.
@@paulobrien6707 no problem, hopefully John will see this and let you know.
Northburn Solar, if you do email or call him mention you have watched the interview on UA-cam. He is very busy at the moment, let me know if he doesn't get back to you and I can pass on details if needs be.
Great information for those looking for solar and a battery. Can say that after first adding solar over 12 years ago, when I was ready to add a battery I knew most of that was used by my home and answer was to add another 4kWh of solar PV to the opposite side of my roof (being E/W facing) to ensure I could fill the battery. My battery is a Tesla Powerwall and is situated outside and has been running perfectly for the last few years.
EV added 2 years ago, ASHP last year and house loft insulation comnpleted. Used 3333kWh for my hot water and home heating. Now updated cavity wall insulation and this seems to be saving around a third on previous usage.
Also to help, I have a Zappi charger and it works well with my Powerwall and my Eddi for hot water. My solar first fills battery, then Eddi heats hot water and then any spare goes to car.
I have been with Tesla Energy Plan for past year, since getting the ASHP and not knowing my use. Prior year we used 89% night use of energy for the year and exported only 400kWh to the grid for the whole year.
I am now adding another 4kWh to a south facing wall to ease the ASHP electric use in the winter andprovide a good amount of energy to make EV charging more reliable, as I never knew enough solar would be spare, so hence exporting the 400kWh.
Finally Ripple and Kirk Hill will help reduce my bills!
Very nice.
Useful video. Thanks Tim. Are you planning on doing more of these? I’ve just started documenting my install on my channel. 🙂
Yup, I've got a few more lined up over the coming months. Different systems too, which will be interesting.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Great! Happy to be a test subject if required in future. 😂
@@DanEVSolar7 cool, drop me an email using the address on the About tab and I'll add you to the list (bear in mind it's gonna be several months at this point as I can only do about one interview per month and there are a few folks lined up already).
Thank you Tim and John for a VERY useful and interesting discussion. John, a question: Which brands of equipment did you research before coming back to GivEnergy, I know you mentioned a couple, but I wondered if you had considered Victron? Thanks, Jim
I did look at Victron but it looked a bit to complex for my needs and lots of components. I started with GivEnergy, looked at Solis + Fox batteries, Solis + Pylontech, SolarEdge with SolarEdge battery and went back to GivEnergy. As I said I went for GivEnergy as I liked the fact they had UK based support and had allowed local control. Its not been without its issues, mainly supply chain problems and a few software bugs, but I still feel I made the right choice.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney thanks for answering John, it was a fascinating listen and I'll be listening to it again, cheers!
I was very aware of charge temps. I have have spent time insulating the room the battery's and inverters are in. cold temps 0c are bad for charging but also high temps 35c are not good as well. The inverters will start to reduce there power output when to hot.
So I'm looking at a 2.5kW air con system. shame that the F gas regs will not let me install it myself. the units cost from £500 to £700 but installs could add another £2-£3 K more. silly really. I have worked with high pressure systems and vacuums.
Just to let you know the charger was due Q2 2023 but now been told its looking like end of year, As I have waited 1 year for the inverter I have gone with the Zappi to get it all installed at the same time and the Zappi can be adapted so it does not drain the batteries and now with HUB built in and Lan built in
That's annoying. We're currently coping ok with just the granny charger but that delay is a pain. I think the zappi may still drain the battery if charging overnight, a bit like how our eddi does too, unless we set the battery to charge at the same time as the eddi is boosting (a valid strategy). The export margin setting only really works when there is excess solar. If you find a good solution to that I'd be interested to hear it.
Great video, I would be happy to do an interview.
I haven't done one of these for a while but I really should do more. There have just been too many other videos to do! But if I get back to doing them I'll let you know. Thanks for the offer.
Hi, great video and well done John, that is incredible value for a 14.7 kwh battery system. I spent £10k on a 5.8 kw panels with just a 5kwh Puredrive battery. Interestingly Puredrive claim that you can discharge at a rate of 5kw, which is useful when I have an electric shower used for over 40 minutes a day. However as with Solis still working out how to get the batteries to do that. Totally agree with John the Solis app is awkward. My mistake as live 200 miles from property was not go with a local installer, as could not keep going there. I am now looking at ways to utilise my large export, no EV, no water cylinder, so going down the route as per Tim, of using air to air heat pump, however only as secondary heating to soak up the excess.
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video. Bear in mind you won't get much excess in Winter when you want to use the A2A. The Spring might be pretty good for that though, as the days get longer while it's still cold outside.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Agreed concerning Air to Air, but it is only for secondary heating and to stop exporting so much. My problem is how much Gas will I save by pumping into the house an additional 30kwh of heat per day , which is 30% of my total heat usage. Of course in the summer can reverse it and use as a cooler. Thanks
@@laurencedamazer2260 is that 30 kWh the heat output or the electrical input? If the input then you'd get 90+ kWh of heat.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Sorry that is heat output on an average excess of 10kwh per day electrical.
@@laurencedamazer2260 gotcha. I bet that will help a bit, for sure.
Hi Tim perhaps you know the answer - I have a givenergy system with 2 9.5 batteries on a dc system with 5kw hybrid converter. The max I can output from the batteries is 2.4 kWh but I regularly need 5+kWh for a swimming pool the only way round it as far as I can see is to install a second inverter one for each battery but givenergy say there are issues have you or any of your subscribers have any other ideas. My set up is 17 jinko x 395, givenergy 5.2 hybrid ( series 1 ) and 2 9.5 batteries. Each panel has a tigo optimiser unit - allows me to monitor each panel. The panels are all located at floor level in my garden and face south.
The 5 kW hybrid inverter can supply 5 kW if you've got an extra 2.6 kW from your solar panels to add to the 2.4 from the battery, so that's your only option at this stage. If you upgraded to a Gen 2 hybrid inverter that can put 3.6 kW from the batteries, so a bit more, but you'd still need solar to top it up to 5 kW. I've also heard that a second inverter might cause problems but keep an eye on news from GivEnergy as they may resolve that issue in future, you never know.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks for the reply looking forward to news from Givenergy
really interesting stuff, thanks john and tim, cool to see how this is being integrated into homeassistant :) the whole idea that as the owner of the kit you can't do all operations and need to provide access to the installer is a huge blocker for me on other platforms as john mentioned. tim, you need to get homeassistant setup :) also solcast can be integrated into homeassistant so john could probably do his 60% charge changes into an automation.
Yes I know I can do a lot more with HA, I only have 2 automations and both are alerts on remaining battery %. If Ohme offered an API I could use excess solar to charge the car but they don't unfortunately so need to consider another EV charger. That's what appeals about Zappi it has a HA plugin. Home Assistant is fantastic!
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney John, I am considering using Home Assistant. I currently have it running on my PC but it isn't great as it stops working when the PC goes into standby mode etc. Guess I need a raspberry PI but do you have any thoughts on what is the best setup ?
@@philipbroggio9315 I have a Raspberry Pi 4 8GB with an Argon M2 case and M2 SSD. The reason I didn't use the SSD card is because they get hammered and the M2 is much quicker and more reliable. It was really easy to install using the excellent video on GivTCP from 'Speak to the Geek' on UA-cam. I did consider running it on my Synology NAS as well but opted for a dedicated Pi and its been solid as a rock since.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Thanks John, I think I am going to treat myself. I do have a Raspberry Pi 2 but that is too long in the tooth it seems.
@@philipbroggio9315 have a look on ebay for an old intel nuc, i'm using an 8 year old unit with 16gb ram and an ssd, its performing perfectly :)
Just paid for the 9.5 kwh battery today and installation will be next week...I asked about emergency power supply which would allow certain vital appliances,etc to be power in the event of a power cut.. decided we could not afford it! There was another option on the table for a double socket to come directly out of the battery box to my choice of appliance via an extension cable ..AGAIN..I did not choose this option due to the cost...Over £400 quid to add this on the day of install...In the wrong business springs to mind! I'll be glad when it's up and running and we can start saving a bit:) Oh one last thing...any questions I should be asking or paperwork on the day on install? We are being moved from Bulb to Octopus in a couple of weeks and need to get everything ticked off.
That's fab! I'd say make sure to get your MCS certificate and a copy of any letter sent by the DNO approving the install. Your installer should be able to provide both. John may know if there's anything else but I think that's the important stuff.
Electrical completion certificate is also an essential. You will need this if you ever come to sell your house in the future.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thank you for this info...There's a lot as a customer we all need to know before signing the completion paperwork.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Thank you,John...I've also written this down and will request this on Wednesday....On one of the videos I think you mentioned that you had a double socket installed from the battery,did you also opt to have power routed to vital appliances or just the double socket?
@@runningpanda6570 Just a straight forward double socket in the Porch, we rarely get power cuts so didn't feel anything else was necessary.
Great video and very informative for someone starting out on their solar journey. My installer has been trying to push a Huawei inverter and battery installed in the loft. I wondered if Huawei was in your plans initially and if so why you went for the GivEnergy?
Didn't consider Huawei. The main reason I went with GivEnergy was UK based company (I appreciate most of the equipment will be Chinese) and that option for local control. In these uncertain times I didn't want anything that I could have trouble getting support for in the future or where cloud services were necessary to do basic tasks. For example it looked like the Solis unit I considered you had to go to the front panel to change the overnight battery charge % if you had a sunny day the next day, GivEnergy I can do this from their app, their cloud service or locally from GivTCP/Home Assistant. The ability to call someone based in the UK and get support was also important in case my installer went bust. Personally I would not want any kit in the loft unless it was easily accessible, from time to time you may need to reset it or check status panels/lights and it's far easier at ground level!
Great video tell john to keep marine tank it’s big reason I got solar 😊
Any tips for removing hair algae would be helpful! Lol. Maybe that’s another channel.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney
Haha pull it out manually and loads of tangs
Oh patience 😊
Tim, watch out presuming you have a 100A fuse. The cartridge itself will be rated and marked as 100A but may be fitted with a smaller fuse. This will be the case with a "looped" supply and you may be on the end of the loop and not realise it if you were expecting two cables as an indication. You may already have got to the bottom of this so forgive me if you already know.
I'm pretty sure it's 100A but I'll be getting my installer to confirm
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk They will have to ask the DNO as the cut out is DNO property and installers are not legally allowed to interfere with it without permission. The DNO will talk to you direct as a homeowner however. I've found mine very helpful providing information about un-looping and approving installations.
@@johnh9449 the DNO just turned up on my doorstep to check the main fuse (I assumed they'd have a record of it somewhere and could just email me back but apparently the only way to be sure is to take a look!). It is indeed a 100A fuse, so that's a relief. They're really chunky boys, those fuses, crikey.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk That's good. Yes, they are never sure somebody hasn't replaced it. I was on a looped supply and both my cartridge (which you can't go by) and the fuse within was 100A rated even though it should have been 60A. It's now unlooped to match the fuse!
Great video, sorry I missed it in the interview....do you know the orientation of his roof ? East/West ? North/South ? Thanks
I think I forgot to check that during the interview. Hopefully John will spot this and respond though.
South West 180 degrees I think the installer said.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney thanks
Givenergy vs Libbi: This, and a discussion with an installer, is making me question whether the Libbi is worth it. I have a Zappi, and want an Eddi, and I thought the single control surface I'd have with a Libbi would be useful. But I can imagine my energy priorities are going to be pretty static: Any generation from PV should go first to the house, second to the battery, third to the car, and fourth to the Eddi (only because I'll have an air source heat pump and can drive the hot water from the battery at (hopefully) a SCOP of 3.5). If I can build a system that realises those priorities, I can't see myself needing to change it much. Am I missing something?
If that _is_ the case, what's the advantage of getting a Libbi / is it worth? Looking back at their promotional material, they talk about doing something like a virtual power plant. That's cool and I think is really useful, but it's not likely to make me so much money that it outweighs the additional cost of a Libbi over a Giv-Bat 9.5. What do people think?
I think the main potential issue is the zappi draining the battery if it's DC coupled (with a hybrid inverter). The libbi would talk to the zappi/eddi so wouldn't allow that to happen, presumably. If you AC couple a GivEnergy battery then you can put CT clamps everywhere and the zappi/eddi will then know where the excess is flowing and divert appropriately without draining the battery. However, you'd then need one inverter for the solar panels and a GivEnergy AC inverter for the battery (which is only 3 kW, so slightly below the 3.6 kW charge/discharge rate of the Gen 2 hybrid inverters). There are pros and cons to both setups but the AC coupled route gives you maximum visibility of the energy flows at the expense of some handy functionality from the hybrid inverters, such as charging from solar even during a power-cut, which isn't possible with AC coupled batteries. One thing to look at is the GivEnergy all-in-one battery, which now has a data sheet available on the GivEnergy website. It looks like it's gunning for the Powerwall and the specs are very impressive. No idea what the price is likely to be though. That's AC coupled too, so you'd need another inverter in any case (or micro-inverters on the panels) so you'd get the same visibility on energy flows. Too many options!
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks. I need to get my head round DC Vs AC coupling.
I've been leaning towards micro inverters on the panels anyway, to mitigate some shading.
@@AndrewSmithThomas yeah, I think they're a good idea. There was an excellent video by Gary Does Solar about them recently, which made a lot of sense. I wish I'd known about them earlier before I got my system design nailed down.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Yeah, ua-cam.com/video/9GvhDhCSJgo/v-deo.html and ua-cam.com/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/v-deo.html are worth a watch for anyone else wanting to look into this.
I think the key thing to remember with EV chargers is can they have a CT clamp to see excess solar being produced. DC coupled does make it a bit more difficult but not impossible and DC coupled brings advantages too. A DC coupled battery has less conversion loss and the solar panels can charge it directly meaning the inverter losses don’t exist from roof to battery and any inverter limits are not an issue. The zappi has the ability to monitor solar export and as the car needs 1.4kWh to start charging on a type 2 it’s easy to monitor for that level of excess and zappi will kick in when export exceeds 1.4kWh. If the solar is being exported its fairly safe to say the battery is full or can’t take the level of solar being produced. The end game is always to prevent export to grid and consume yourself.
Really insightful thank you. I am very close to purchasing a similar system GiveEnergy 9.5kw. I have a couple of unknowns. I am looking to get AC inverter is this what you have installed? (I already have a small solar system in place but looking to exapand later). A concern I recently came across is the apparent poor customer service from GivEnergy. Do you have any experience of this?
John has a 5 kW hybrid inverter, not the 3 kW AC inverter. I'll let him answer the customer service question in more detail, although he did say they were very responsive.
I think you can find poor customer experiences for most companies on the internet if you look. The main issues I have had with GivEnergy is availability of kit and accessories such as connecting cables/dongles. I hope these are now resolved or much better but in my install time it was a big frustration as were the distrubitors who were less than easy to deal with from what my installer said. In terms of customer service, the times I have spoken with GivEnergy they have been helpful and knowledgeable. I have had one minor defect on the 9.5 battery and I will admit it has taken a bit of push to get them to come and fix that, they agreed straight away it needed fixing but the priority was low as the system was working and that went on for 3+ months and I had to be pushy in the end, they are coming Friday 3rd March to fix hopefully. I would say they are UK based, answer the phones (admittedly sometimes a bit slowly) but they do answer, they fix faults in software, sometimes 2-3 attempts before it work properly, but they listen to their customers and seem to react/respond. The community support is good and it's a very open system so even in the event they do not respond well I have a lot of local control. I would say they are as good as the rest of the bunch and probably better as they have UK based support and many don't. Hope that helps.
Re the inset panels my concern would be that with increased temperatures in this country you would lose the air flow underneath the panels.
The loss of generation with increasing temperature is actually pretty small, so it's a compromise many would make for the better aesthetics.
Hi, I am in the Newcastle area, any idea who John used for his installation.
I'll let John cover this one.
Northburn Solar of Cramlington, I do know he is extremely busy though. CareTech Systems of Cramlington are an electricians who have done a lot of my Electrical work but not Solar and are now doing GivEnergy so they may also be worth a call.
I have not watched all your videos as of yet and I would love to know your thoughts on what you think ...We are at this very moment having solar panels installed 10 x 305w panels (no choice on higher wattage panels) We need to choose between one 9.5 Givenergy battery or two batteries 5.2 kw with a 3.6 gen 1 inverter ..We will be looking to charge them on the lower tariffs as and when required....Annoyed that we can't buy the higher inverter without all the rigmarole...I understand the 9.5 batt can fully discharge but the 5.2 cannot...Do I go for the one or the two? Thanks for any advise in advance and I'm now needed by the roof panel fitters...catch you guys later:) Sorry for the rushed question!
No problem. From what I can tell the 5.2 kWh batteries have a depth of discharge of 80% while the 9.5 kWh one has a DoD of 100%. So for the 2 x 5.2 kWh you'd get 8.32 kWh of usable capacity compared to the full 9.5 kWh. So based on that I'd go for the single 9.5 kWh (plus it's a bit neater). There's not a lot in it but that's what I'd do. Best of luck with your install!
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thank you...That's the way we are going to go, I think..possibly less maintenance for problem solving as well...I have just got off the phone ref the 9.5 batt as I wanted to know how the 9.5 could discharge fully...I found out that the 9.5 is actually 11.5 and does work the same way as the 5.2 by the way of discharging..Did no know about "ripple" and will be having a read...🐼I find it hard to understand why our Gas &Electric is set to go up again in April after seeing the price of Gas and Electricity has dropped?!
@@runningpanda6570 ah, I did wonder if they were doing something sneaky with the capacity of the 9.5 kWh. That makes a lot of sense.
Agree with Tim a single 9.5 is the way to go, better warranty I think too if I remember rightly. The reason I got a 5.2+9.5 was because I simply couldn't have had the benefit from 2 x 9.5's in the time window.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Thanks, John
Hi Tim, thanks for your very informative videos. I hope you don’t think this is an impertinent question, but would you be willing to say how much your solar installation is going to cost please? Also, a quick summary of your design spec. (I know you are having two GE batteries, a 9.5 and 5.2). My installer is very keen on an AC coupled battery install for my proposed solar system. Any thoughts on that please? Thanks in anticipation.
As it happens I don't know what the final cost will be as the design has changed a bit since I first got the quote. We're getting it all installed in a week or so though, so I was planning on doing a summary video shortly after that, if you're happy to wait a little while for all the details. Regarding AC vs hybrid inverters there are pros and cons to each. AC will require a second inverter but you're able to add CT clamps between the PV and battery which makes monitoring easier, and control over EV chargers and solar diverters easier. Hybrid inverters are a bit more efficient at charging the batteries and you only need the one inverter, but it's more complicated to get it to work well with EV chargers or solar diverters (although not impossible). It all depends on what else you want to install and how you want to use it so there's no simple answer really.
Tim's absolutely right. Hybrid inverters efficiency is a benefit when it comes to Solar energy filling the battery as it is DC to DC and there is virtually no loss in moving the energy from the panels to the batteries. With an AC coupled there will be some losses, this varies between systems. If your inverter provider has an integrated car charger option then the potential to drain the battery to fill the car should be prevented. There are ways to do this with a Hybrid system, Zappi being one of them which can monitor export levels and divert based on seeing export to grid at 1.4kWh and above diverting this to the car automatically.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks very much Tim. Looking forward to hearing all about it!
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney Thanks John.
Heat pumps is a hard pick. It would have to be a high temp heat pump. but you need to run it at low flow temps.. From my searches I like the look of the "RED heat pump" looks like a doctor who dalek. no buffer tank needed.
Would be good to know which installer your guest used. Feels like there's a lot of cowboys in the market
Northburn Solar in Cramlington, they cover most of Northumberland and Newcastle area.
Thank you!
@@AKDizzle Your welcome, main thing to consider when selecting someone is their trading record and for me they weren't just handing me a brochure and a standard quote but listening to my requirements based on their experience. This was really important to me as was protecting my deposit payment in case they disappeared. I only paid the next instalments once equipment was in the garage ready to go.
@@MyImperfectEcoJourney that's a really good point on the deposit. I'm seeing a lot of horror stories online. Will keep that in mind. You've also made me reconsider my project, I might follow your example now and redo the whole roof and get integrated panels instead... Thanks again
Ripple wind farms: I had looked into this and _thought_ they made no financial sense. But looking again ... Their 'Extended high government' scenario appears to be roughly equivalent to getting 3.9% compound interest over 25 years, and their more pessimistic 'Central government' is equivalent to 2.2%. Assuming I've done my maths correctly (and Tim may remember how bad I was at advanced calculus ...). So ... have I got that right? The stock market - particularly US tech stocks - generally get around 4% growth year on year, and the S&P 500 seems to have grown around 11% each year for the last 10. So there's probably better options if you're just looking to make money. But I'd probably be happy getting 3.9% and knowing I'm contributing to a good cause, but 2.2% is a pretty poor rate of return. What do people think?
Yeah, it's not the highest return on an investment but I bet it feels better than investing in the stock market! I've not done the sums but I expect you're about right (I don't remember you being *that* bad).
Craig fartha is earning 27p per kWh for the next year so that’s actually a decent return if Kirk Hill gets the same price when it’s fixed later this year. Even if Kirk Hill gets 20p my 4000kWh investment should return £800 on my £2300 investment, that’s 34% in year one which I am very happy with!
Great videos. I will have my system installed soon ( I hope as DNO delayed everything)
14x450w with 2 batteries 9.5 + 5.2 and with south facing roof is south west should be lovely.
With electric car ( leaf 40k) we should be completely off grid for 8-10 months. Happy to share some info with you Tim as this video and very comprehensive information is golden.
Let me know how I can contact you…email, text
Speak soon . Zibi
Sounds great. Take a look on the About tab and you should find an email address there (note: only seems to work on a desktop, not mobile, for some reason).
Will do. Thanks for comeback to me 😅
I designed the system to be able to charge the battery's from 10% to 90% within 4 hours or less to take advantage of the off peak price. or if variable tariffs later. I had 3 phase installed to do this. Each inverter can pull from the grid 11.6 kW that's 34.8kw an hour charge rate. I have dropped this to 9kW as I'm charging EV's as well.
This system can run the house with out the grid. With the plan that it will run a heat pump for 18 + hours in the coldest months.
Summer time I will be making about 100kWh a day at best. this will charge EV's and hot water. + fill the battery.
Very impressive, I'm super jealous.
Great video. I'm currently considering givenergy. Does Gen 2 offer a larger output rate? From watching this video I've gathered that gen 1 does 2.6kw? Thanks
Yes, Gen 2 hybrid inverters have a charge and discharge rate of 3.6 kW.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk thanks and good morning to you. In that case what's the purpose in the inverter being 5kW? I assumed thats how much can be drawn in total from battery and solar and the rate it could allow through for charging an attached battery.
@@theog_mrb87 it'll do 5 kW when there is solar as well, but if it's dark outside the maximum draw from the battery alone is 3.6 kW.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk yeah. Funny enough I've just been on live chat with givenergy about this and they confirmed the same.
For myself and my partner I don't think we would see much benefit from the 5kw in the winter (we work a normal 9-5) but massive benefit in the summer to avoid our peaks coming from the grid.
Apparently the 5kW (gen 2) can only charge at 3.6 too? So with octopus go could only charge a maximum of roughly 14kw within the window of opportunity overnight
@@theog_mrb87 yes, the charge and discharge rates are both 3.6 kW, so 14 kWh charge in 4 hrs. That's partly why we went with a 9.5 kWh plus 5.2 kWh batteries, since that's the most we could charge up overnight.
I have a 7 year old hot water tank and was thinking its ok. But it looses about 24kWh over 2 hours (50mm foam insulated) Sunamp have vacuum insulation they loose about 0.9 kWh over 24 hours they don't have a problem with legionnaires disease. there more compact.
24 kWh over two hours sounds extreme. Perhaps you missed a decimal point? Modern cylinders will lose about 1.5 kWh over 24 hours. I hear good things about the sunamp.
My mistake it's 2 kW over a 24-hour period.
I watched it when I was on holiday.
Everyday the myenergi Eddi would heat the tank to 70° C full (max setting) It was losed about 2 kilowatts overnight and through the day. And the Eddi would add another 2 kW. The pattern repeated for 2 weeks
My parents installed a summer in their house upon my recommendation.
It works well.
The problems with it are the cost.
And the poor souls that have to lift it into place. The weight was 250 kg
It bent the sack cart wheels.
@@MichaelPickles wow, that's heavier than I expected.
How about not bothering with the solar panels at all & just get the 9.5kw battery & emitter? Charge for 5 hours on Octopus Go 7.5p a kw & then use that 9.5kw electric through the day? Guarenteed 3500 kw of energy a year for 7.5- a kw??
That is an option but you'll get better savings with PV added too. With good export tariffs like Octopus Flux now you can be making quite a bit of money through the summer.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks. Im very new to all this & havent even looked at export tariffs. My head is hurting enough ha
@@razorg4421 a good place to start is Gary Does Solar. Basically watch all his videos, they're an excellent introduction!
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks. I will do lots of research. Try & find different prices for different products & then the wife says no! Ha
Help request:) "My inverter" page... My page states lead acid for the battery and then switches to info lithium and back to lead acid.I have a 9.5kwh battery but the info below the battery info states 6.40kwh batt. No updates are available...Could one of you guys check your own page for this info
Mine just says Lithium-ion. Sounds like a call to GivEnergy might be your best bet.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Hi,Tim...Could you let me know what it states below that information ref battery? Mine states 640kwh when my battery is actually a 9.5kwh. I've been on to both Givenergy and fitter for the last two weeks...Original fitter came out today and did not know what was going on with it...He's done exactly the same as I did nearly two weeks ago and contacted Givenergy who have forced charged it all day and it still not working...I've explained to them that the software looks all wrong but they don't seem to be listening:(
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk P.S
Battery Capacity
125 Ah | 6.40 kWh | (1 Pack)
@@runningpanda6570 I have 14.75 kWh batteries in two packs. I really don't think I can offer any help here, this is very much a GivEnergy support issue. I'm sorry you're having problems, keep trying with GivEnergy.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks for letting me know the info below the battery on your page...Been onto both GE and install team and they are going to try and get somebody out that knows a bit more about the cabling side,etc...GE still believe it's a cabling problem...Thanks again for looking for me:)
No email address in About
There is, but it may not show up on mobiles, try the desktop webpage instead.
It's a bit disappointing they install almost 6kwh of Solar Panels than are told "our gen 1 inverter can only charge the batteries at 2kwh 🤨😌"
A bit of a SCAM really
That's a bit harsh. The stats are all available on the datasheet, they're not hiding anything.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk for 90% of people even if they show the Data , it will be like showing Chinese to the French
For people like you & me Technical , we now conclude 16 solar panels were not required only 5 solar panels are currently in use and if he upgrades to gen 3 inverter 8 panels will be in use
Knowing a Battery Imput & inverter charging capacities is crucial
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk also is quite clear despite all the Solar he is using way more energy than what is able produce at 10:29 February 2023 he used almost 9kwh and produced 1kwh =£0.33 saved
Dont get me Wrong i know during the day he will produce more kw however its a fraction of his daily usage 😒🤨😌 is saving around £4 a day which is poor considering his £12,000 investment he is still stuck to the grid like the rest of us
@@niceboy60 I'm not sure who you're criticising here. GivEnergy, the installer, or John? Regardless of your answer I don't think you fully understand how this system works or how it pays for itself over time. The battery can be charged overnight at cheap rate as well as being charged by excess solar. That also saves you money. During the summer you will need almost no grid energy at all. All in all this sort of system will pay for itself in 6 or 7 years. What more do you want?
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk I m not criticising either one of you , I ,m criticising who ever managed to convince you it saves you money while you are still stuck to the Grid and paying £300 a month in loans + grid prices ,what you say makes sense about the 7 years pay off however there's nothing in there which will last 7 years lipo batteries last around 3000 cycles (not unlimited) as the Give Energy website indicates
Also, the Ripple piece, not sure that works quite how you think it does - you just get a kick back at wholesale rate so it's a discount rather than actual power to your house. Guessing you might know this, but didn't seem that way when you touched on it.
Yes, I'm aware it's a discount off your bill, but you could consider it as something you're generating and providing to the grid, it's just not coming from your own roof.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Fair enough, so I assume the calculations you've done in the other video where you discuss your annual shortfall in production is in relation to that 👍👍 Quick question, how did you seemingly stop your generation going to the grid? There's a video of yours where the connection appears to be switched off in the home screen of the app (as in that part of the circle connecting the solar to the grid icon is gone)
@@Soulrollsdeep yes, exactly, I consider the Ripple generation to be offsetting some of the demand that I'll inevitably have to draw from the grid during the winter. Regarding stopping export to the grid, I'm not necessarily trying to prevent it as during the summer you can get some very good export rates using a tariff like Octopus Flux, so exporting is actually very financially beneficial (as well as being beneficial for the grid). But we can go "off grid" if we want to by using our EPS mode as demoed in this video: ua-cam.com/video/HD5KqC7Mfv8/v-deo.htmlsi=ZWBE-voYk2-U4fvu
Otherwise, if the battery isn't yet full the excess generation will top it up, which is the first thing you should be doing with any excess. Only once the battery is full does the excess go out to the grid.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk absolutely, I wasn't clear enough in my statement. I've had some odd situations in which more solar has gone to the grid than to the home, only noticed it a couple of times but I would rather isolate the grid out of the equation until the battery is full.
As an aside, I'm getting a pergola built in the rear garden to add another ten panels or so (we're perfectly south facing) and then add the additional 9kwh battery (maybe two!) and the intent is to use octopus FIT tarrif at 15p/kwh, build up enough excess to offset our heating bill during winter (hopefully completely, but we're not getting our ASHP until the end of January 😭). Ours is going to be an air to water though, so can't really compare it to your setup as far as I'm aware
@@Soulrollsdeep the battery should automatically charge when there's excess solar, there's nothing you need to do to manage it. If the sun is going in and out of cloud quickly you might get a few moments where some goes to the grid, but it usually doesn't take long to balance. I just let it do its thing and most of the time it's all good.
Hang on, I was categorically told I could NOT daisy chain two different battery sizes. They had to be the same!
Nope, I have a 9.5 and a 5.2 and they work great.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks, just more evidence that 90% of "experts" don't know what they're on about. Two electricians who came to do the work, a battery reseller company AND the company who sold me the setup in the first place. Crazy! I'm just about to start a renewables installation course, so I intend to become an SME in all this, maybe we could partner up at some point!
@@SoulrollsdeepI'm constantly amazed by this. You'd think professionals would know what they're doing. You really have to be on the ball yourself! Good luck with the course, let me know how you get on.
Great first show Tim, will be interesting to see who else u get on the show. John are u happy to say which supplier and roofer you used ? I'm looking to get the same done to my house in northshields. @sydney1812
Sure, Northburn Solar and Chris Young Roofing both in Cramlington
Thanks! Paging @sydney1812 for answers to your questions.
Interesting that John is similar age to me & recently retired techy. & I've moved from Northumberland, near John to Gloucestershire, near Tim . . . Like John, I started looking at solar back in 2012 but decided against it as tech was less mature, no batteries, FIT scheme ending & finacial equation was not so positive. . . But now re-considering all renewable options. . .
I was interested on the comments about lead-times & the fact that the GivEnergy Inverter rev 2 was not available last year hence John having rev1 installed. Would he be likely to retrofit in future ? And what about the newly announced GivEnergy "All-In-One" unit which seems to be designed for future expandability, whole-house back-up, better current-carrying capacity etc. . Difficult to find out much about it as it is still 'awaiting more information' . . but with a largish house I wonder whether it is worth waiting for at all !? How easy would it be to upgrade an inverter system ? Can you re-sell the old inverter / batteries ? Of course I can't wait too long & need to start on the renewable 'journey' somewhere.
I notice that GivEnergy have put a spec sheet up for the all-in-one system (also for their Gateway). I'm intending to do a quick spec video on both shortly as I think it looks very impressive. The likely price is another question, however. If I was starting from scratch I'd be seriously tempted to go down the micro-inverter plus GivEnergy all-in-one AC coupled route, depending on when that's likely to be available. I'll leave John to answer your question about swapping the inverter.
I have considered reselling once Gen2 is shipping but I am not finding the 2.4 limit is too big an issue at the moment. If I get an ASHP or other electric heating that may change. I did get the extended warranty but I don’t think that’s transferable unfortunately.
Hi Tim. If you are interested I could tell our Solar story. We are very near the end of a journey to reduce our carbon footprint. We made good choices and a few less good ones on the way but -I'm pretty happy with the end result Solar, EV, Zappi, Tesla battery, Air to water heat pump, mini induction hob .....
Crispin Hodges - Ashtead -
I could not find your email address so I'm using this for initial contact
You can find the email address on the About tab, but it doesn't show up on mobile, you have to use a web browser. Ping me on there and I'll see if I can schedule you in (although I've got a fair few in the queue already, just to warn you).