Challenge your mayor. We did and it worked. We challenged him to walk from one area of downtown to another, roughly 3 miles. He did it. He was honked at by drivers 3 times, even though he was crossing where he was suppose to, and he was almost hit once. That resulted in that driver stopping to threaten him. Sad thing is many people do this walk daily.
how did it work? has your mayor redesigned the city? The north american corp lobby has gov't under their thumb. Citizens need a separation of corp's & gov't like we did church & gov't.
I had to drop a car off at one of the car dealers along Aurora and had a few hours to kill. I could just make out a crappy restaurant a few long blocks north of the car dealer. But getting there on foot wasn’t easy and also involved crossing Aurora. It’s perhaps one of the most pedestrian unfriendly places in all of Seattle. You also completely left out the southern end of Hwy 99 now known as International Blvd near the region’s main airport. It’s also largely an ugly legacy mess that’s been lightly dressed up with a bit of landscaping mixed in with the strip clubs. Seattle can build one of the most needlessly expensive power substations in the country, relative to it’s capacity, but cannot allocate money to cleaning up some of the most ugly, unsafe, and poorly managed parts of the city.
Seattle *had* a mayor, Mike McGinn, who was a bike and transit activist on the way to becoming mayor, and travelled by bike to his campaign events. That was a decade ago -- I honestly think he helped a bit, but getting a mayor in favor of a walkable, bikeable city isn't *nearly* enough -- our local politics get super messy, and the state has way too much influence over a lot of what the city can even do. As mayor he tried to fight the utterly ridiculous, expensive, and counterproductive downtown auto tunnel, and he lost badly.
Thanks for the tour of the stroadiest part of the most stroady stroad in the city. It was stroaderific. That redesign certainly looks like a significant improvement. If they could actually get it down to one lane of car traffic in each direction (and hopefully without the off peak exception for the bus lane), then it would really breathe life back into this place.
That would be ideal, but I think it is unrealistic. The problem is that this project only covers a small section of a roadway that goes for dozens of kilometers. Bus lanes exist in some areas, but not in others. Thus traffic -- including buses -- would funnel into one lane, causing congestion. That is a weakness with this project -- it needs to extend a lot farther.
I used to live right on top of this area. A big challenge is it's about the only significant non freeway north south car thoroughfare in seattle west of greenlake / I5. That area is surrounded by low density housing and transit connections from there are time consuming and only really service downtown. There's a ton of demand for thru traffic and a reduction to 1 lane is very likely to displace traffic onto Holman/Greenwood (which are 2 lane 'arterials'). Some sort of a streetcar or dedicated BRT lanes and improvements for pedestrians make sense but I'm not sure any of these changes will lower traffic demand in area. In parallel the bus line is probably reasonably statistically safe and I used it to commute for 2 years but most area residents (I'm a semi-regular at a brewery close to 100th and Aurora) are uncomfortable taking the bus for safety reasons. I get strange looks from people when I mention I take the E line. So almost everyone drives (potentially improvements to pedestrian infra could help?)
@@bpcoxkr In Los Angeles, Metro was talking about making all the buses free, permanently. Everyone who rides them knows that would give free shelter to homeless people, who would have a climate-controlled place to sit all day long. So instead Metro has set up a number of discount or free fare programs; people have to apply for those benefits. They've also started talking about how they're beefing up security systemwide. I hope this ends their on-again, off-again relationship with the Sheriff Department. I don't take public transit often, but I don't want to have to worry about what crazies I might encounter on the bus each time I ride. And they're ditching the cloth seats in favor of plastic. Good to see they're getting real about things. I also hope they go with the Green Line extension down Hawthorne Blvd. Better to run the light rail down our biggest stroad, where people already take buses, than through the middle of a quiet R1 or R2 neighborhood behind people's backyards. Unfortunately, the more sensible option will cost a lot more.
@@bpcoxkr Yes, the E carries on the legacy of the 358, which it replaced. Crazy stuff seems to happen pretty regularly on that bus. My mom used to live up in Haller Lake, so I took it from time to time and was struck by that. So was my mom.
Cutting down to one lane is simply not viable, that road is packed solid during the rush hours and there really are no alternative options. Seattle is a heavily developed hilly isthmus, water on the east and west sides. In order to get downtown from there are basically 3 options, Aurora, I-5, and Lake City Way and they are all way over capacity. The lightrail northmost point ends at northgate at the moment, they are working as fast as they can to expand it to shoreline but there was a concrete truck strike and covid worker shortage that have delayed things. Even then it is going to take people time to adjust and that won't address the commercial traffic that aurora serves.
"Nearly 20 years ago, Seattle was on the cusp of a complete revamp of Aurora Avenue that would have mirrored the improvements that Shoreline made to their portion of SR 99. Then, property owners like Faye Garneau (now passed away), the owner of the Aurora Collision Center, pushed back on the improvements." - article from The Urbanist you mentioned
I feel like as a rule of thumb, if the owner of a “collision center” is pushing back on road safety upgrades, it means you are going in the right direction.
More of these videos on how to fix bad urban design would be great. We all enjoy criticising these places but fixing them needs to be a bigger topic of conversation.
This is my favorite topic yet, and I think the most import thing in Urban planning at the moment. These stroads are not only the most dangerous and expensive part of existing infrastructure, but also offer linear corridors with mixed zoning that could evolve to glue our suburban cities together with an urban mesh.
"...the E-Line is an extremely democratic service for a very diverse population on a roadway that's kind of a mess, otherwise." I just stumbled onto your station a couple of weeks ago, and I've been devouring your content in my free time ever since. As both the consultant PM and consultant engineer of record for King County Metro's RapidRide E & F Lines project, I was surprised and delighted to see a creator I admire shout out a slice of my professional portfolio still performing a decade after it entered service. I was and remain incredibly proud of the work we all did to deliver the project; it was truly a team effort backing a mission we all believed in. And you're absolutely right: Aurora Ave N still has its share of challenges to tackle; thanks for amplifying the impact of our work in your own imitable voice.
I think we really ought to talk about the streetwalkers. I know you couldn't really mention it in the video because of algorithm concerns and squeamishness about the subject but it really is a factor that is shaping the issues around Aurora. I remember back in the 70s Aurora had the reputation for being a prime working ground for the ladies. It actually started to go away in the 2000s and early 2010s because they were finding it more profitable and safer to use things like craigslist and backpage to arrange liaisons. There were still some ladies out there at night but far fewer than we see today. But then there was the crackdown on those venues for sexual services and so there was a return of old habits and Aurora bloomed again. The association of that road and that profession has always made any investment in the area difficult if not downright toxic. There is a since that "those people" don't deserve any better and any civil infrastructure investment in the area is a waste of resources. A lot of people seem to think building sidewalks along aurora would somehow be rewarding the hookers. I thought it was a marvel of editing that much have cost hours of wasted video you couldn't use to avoid get any of them in this piece. Personally I think the best solution is to legalize and regulate prostitution but I am pretty far out of step with the larger Seattle community on this.
I’m really down for anything to get these damn ladies off the side of the road. Lived in an apartment right next to aurora for a year with my girlfriend, mfs would try to pick her up when she’s walking to her car with sweats and a jacket on. Unbelievable & wildly uncomfortable. Never again
It's a big issue and I am always worried about their safety out there. I dislike that even among more liberal circles, there's an undertone that any risk or discomfort to prostitutes is deserved. But they're just trying to make ends meet within a larger context of how hard the cycle of poverty is, and they deserve basic safety and amenities (like good sidewalks) as well.
@@NefariousHippie ... most people don't understand basic Human decency, everyone deserves to be treated with a little decency 🤔 That changed several years ago with the rise of those Stupid fake scripted "Reality Shows", like Jerry Springer, Maury Povish, Morton Downey Jr and other obnoxious shows..like Survivor. All those shows were crafted to exploit people, to turn people into voyeurs and predators, by stimulated those primal traits that a civilized society works to suppress. The "Trumpocracy" does the same thing, that's why so many terrible people have come out of the woodwork lately 🤨 imo.
I work at one of the big box stores on this track and I have the most solidarity with them. Customers will say the most vile shit about them and expect me to join in, as if I don’t have more in common with those women than I do with most of the customers at this store.
I’d love to hear more about the self-storage mystery. As someone who’s lived in both LA and SEA it’s puzzling just how many storage companies seem to always take up dense/historic buildings/areas and overshadow their surroundings…
Here in NYC, they take up old multistory pre-war commercial buildings. 1. They brick up the windows. 2. They don't have to heavily invest in climate control. Just keep it tolerable in winter and summer. Low operating expense and they don't have to upgrade the infrastructure.
Self storage is more common in pricey cities because apartments and houses tend to smaller and incomes tend to be higher. For instance in cities like London or NYC, some self storage facilities now offer climate controlled wine storage. Why ? Because even someone making a few hundred thousand a year can only afford a relatively small house (compared to what a few hundred thousand might get you in A low cost city like Cleveland). So people rent extra space for their toys , hobbies etc because they cannot afford a massive house with a garage , wine cellar etc. That’s my observation as why they seem to exist in dense urban areas.
Self storage is going up everywhere... I'm in the suburbs and just last year they built a 4 story storage facility across the street for us (our house backs up to an arterial road). I suspect its because its a business with low overhead that has a subscription model of revenue. People put their junk in these places and basically get used to paying for it despite seldom or never accessing the stuff that's stored there. Think of it like a video streaming service you choose not to cancel "just in case"... only at a magnitude or more of the cost. The sad truth is that people overvalue their stuff and will pay $2000/yr to store stuff that has a combined value of $5000... which very quickly becomes a poor financial decision. They don't see it as "I could replace all of this for 2.5 years worth of storage costs" , they see it as "I've had that for years, I don't want to throw it away even if I can't fit it into my current living space". The businesses love it because even the climate control ones have very low cost to operate once they're constructed. They're typically large well insulated buildings with limited windows that only require 1 employee on-site at any given time.
I'm a boomer life-long Seattle resident - this video is impressively thorough, and I didn't catch any sloppy bloopers, well done and thank you. A completely opposite topic this reminds me of, probably not CityNerd's bailiwick so much, is about the formerly-major US-route state highways that have been upstaged in usage by the Interstate highway system, out in rural areas, especially in the middle of our country, the Rockies and the Plains. I'm a road-trip enthusiast and have had many transcontinental trip opportunities trying different routes. I've been pleasantly surprised by taking US routes on these trips rather than the interstates. Examples: US12 Helena MT to Minnesota, US20 Casper WY to Rockford IL, and just last month, US36 from Denver to Quincy IL. 36 in particular was a joy, with very light traffic on a July weekday, almost no one to pass or be passed by. The absence of semi trucks is especially pleasant. You do have to slow down for towns, but they are real towns rather than just gas stations and McDonalds, interesting to look at. I recommend this to other road travelers.
I can second this. I used to avoid the interstate because my little four-banger could barely keep up with traffic, which towered over me. I found that the US highways travel through more scenic areas, have far less traffic, generate less stress, go through interesting towns, &c. I wonder what the difference is in traffic fatalities between the two.
A lot of US cities famous for being walkable and urban are only walkable across an area that is less than the city limits (like this example here). Would be interesting to compare cities (or regions) by the amount of area that is actually urbanist friendly.
Yeah, Seattle's sidewalks are many, but mostly in disrepair, due to many of them being put in adjacent landowner's care. Seattle does have a map displaying complaints on this disrepair/accessibility issue
Some years back, I drove from Everett to Tacoma entirely on the 99, and it was just about solid stroad the entire way, briefly punctuated by a cemetery, a zoo, a park, and the like, and the Alakan Way Viaduct (since torn and and replaced with a tunnel). It's kind of incredible.
Yes because statistically and in reality traffic-light intersections are the most dangerous for drivers… let alone other modes of travel. That is why people cross anywhere other than intersections. *But!* stroads mean faster traffic mowing people down so it would “seem” safer than it actually is at lights. Roundabouts but single lane roundabouts not double lane ones would ease traffic speed on down for to make intersections safe to cross.
9:54 yeah when one is a pedestrian using his/her own energy and moving at a slow pace one is going to take the shortest/most efficient path no matter what the infrastructure wants you to do as long as it feels reasonably safe compared to the other option.
Its a fundamental law of nature, "conservation of energy", and all living things practice it. Typically exemplified by birds only flying away to the nearest branch they consider out of danger, or pidgeons just power walking away from people. Basically all life seeks to minimize its energy expenditure to the bare minimum. For pedestrians this means taking the most direct route, weighted by personal risk tollerance. (I'm sure a study could be done to determine the minimum distance crosswalks need to be spaced before normal people start jaywalking. You will always have outliers like how somepeople will litter while within arms reach of a trashcan.)
@@jasonreed7522 as a pedestrian in Phoenix I often see people jaywalk across stroads sometimes just a few yards away from a crosswalk. When your destination is directly across the street and you're on foot, any crosswalk is too far as long as there will be a gap in traffic large enough to get across.
@@danieldaniels7571 when I was a walker in Orlando Florida I learned to Jay walk for my own safety even though normally I don’t like to break rules. . I did not jaywalk because I am too lazy to use the crosswalk but the crosswalk was dangerous, even though there was enough time to walk across at least six lanes however they had turning right allowed and the speed limit was so fast, I believe 35 or 45 mph and most people drove 10 miles over that plus there were hedges so most people couldn’t see a walker before they turned right.
@ the previous commnters: i know its a legal term in the us...but can you please stop calling it jaywalking? we dont need to further perpetuate a slur... its simply walking across the street...
@@okaeT no that definitely was not me. For one thing I was not on that road for another thing I was not two woman with a Carriage for another thing this was over a month ago. But I’m glad you save the two women.
If you ever do the urban cemetery video, you should take a look at Colma, California. Located just outside of San Francisco, Colma is a town with a majority of its land used for cemeteries and complimentary uses. Today, there are 1,500,000 dead people in Colma despite there only being 1,500 alive. San Francisco issued a moratorium on cemeteries in 1901 and began relocating existing graves outside of city limits shortly after. The local politics that led up to this are really interested from a planning perspective. People were fed up with how much prime real estate was taken up by cemeteries in their neighborhoods.
Also worth looking at New York City for some aspects of this. There is a "cemetery belt" through Brooklyn and Queens that were all developed around the same time as, then, rural cemeteries.
As a current resident of the Bitter Lake area - thank you for making this video. I saw a video you made about stroads a while back and immediately thought of 99. I've noticed more community action starting to take place and this is re-energizing me to get involved.
quick urban cemetery note: There's three very large urban cemeteries in Philly that I frequent - Mt Moriah deep in West philly, the Woodlands by University City in west, and Laurel Hill Cemetery in East Falls. I'd say without a doubt these are all equal or better land uses than a traditional park since they both function as cemeteries, where people in or with ties to the city can bury and visit loved ones, and as regular parks with quite a lot of trees and other flora. Mt Moriah is large and relatively unkempt but is used as a park quite a lot and the other two are extremely heavily used as parks, even hosting concerts, community gardens, skill shares, school trips, flea markets, and more like any other good park. The old mausoleum and grave and sculpture architecture makes them even more unique places to explore and walk and have picnics than many other parks. I personally hate the idea of using land to just bury dead people in toxic boxes, but these cemeteries are actually really great examples of how death should be treated in my opinion. Death is acknowledged and respected at them but the ecology is still diverse and the setting is open and accessible and useful to the living.
as someone that lives in Chicago, my first thought at the beginning of the video was Aurora, IL -- which, funnily enough, is a textbook example of suburban hell and enormous stroads!
I grew up just north of Aurora, IL and immediately thought the same as you. It's an awful place in so many ways. Nor does it need to be. In weird coincidence, I learned to drive manual transmission in Aurora, CO.
I know, I actually thought of going through the various geographic associations people could have with "Aurora" - Chicago and Colorado come to mind, but there are lots. Seemed too long-winded a way to intro though
Super cool to see all of the old photos of Aurora and the surrounding area, and thanks for talking about advocacy groups and ways to get involved! I've never seen anyone else on the pedestrian crossings so it was nice to see someone else using them XD
A student in your field at Cal told me "what these large storage rental places actually are storing is the land they sit on, until a better use comes along." A thought to explore if you do look into those things. (Still awaiting your video on why you chose and love living in Las Vegas!)
I lived at 145th & Linden when the E-Line came into service! (RIP Line 358...) As someone who lived in that high density zone in Bitter Lake, it's really easy to understand why the E-Line sees such high ridership. For me it comes down to a few factors... the E-Line connects to the north all the way to Aurora Village, which connects regional buses from Edmonds, Lynnwood and Everett. It's also a bus that you can pre-pay for and board at any of the 3 doors, which made it run super fast! The biggest factor, IMO, is crucial for any successful transportation design: it ran frequently enough that it was easy and quick to transfer to other bus lines along the route. Not sure if this is still a thing, but bus drivers would intentionally wait at key transfer points for the passing E-Line, which was an incredible part of Seattle transportation. Your bus was just waiting there for you instead of pulling away as you're running for it (I'm looking at you Trimet....) I definitely see an argument for transforming Aurora, however I think it doesn't need to be fully transformative as it always just felt like the road you take to get places, rather than a nice street to explore and walk along. I would typically use the Interurban Trail for that. What Aurora really needs is better lighting and sidewalks around bus stops and much more frequent crosswalks (maybe with some traffic calming near those crossings?) With that said, as long as there's a median (and there is along inner Aurora), you can just cross one way when it's safe and then cross the other when it's safe. We can't necessarily fix stroads, but having a median is an absolute life saver when you're on foot! Side note about the less savory parts of Aurora.... my partner and I affectionately called Aurora & 85th (specifically the Jack in the Box) the Hellmouth. The things you would see!! 0.0 .... but nothing will ever compare with seeing the Captain Jack Sparrow male prostitute. Legendary.
Who knew urban planning was so interesting, complicated, and underestimated in importance? Thank you for making the whole topic interesting/entertaining and for introducing me to new vocabulary (i.e. signalized intersections, urban land use, stroads, etc.). I don't live in Seattle but we have strong connections there. To be fair Evergreen/Washelli Cemetery was probably out in the country when created in 1885. Otherwise, I agree that perhaps cemeteries shouldn't take up so many acres. That might explain why burials there are so pricey these days - way more than when my in-laws were buried there in the 50's and 80's. Do cemeteries pay the same property taxes as residential property in the same neighborhood or are there exceptions for different land uses?
Wow. Extremely clever how you appended the prefix "St" to the word "road" to create a unique and marvelously wonderous new word. I stand in awe of such brilliant crafting of language. A masterpiece!
It's nice to hear about progress being made. We've made so many mistakes over the last 80 years, but here and there we're finally beginning to repair the damage.
I really love this channel. I became a pedestrian about a decade ago and at first it was hard but once I adapted I found it really made my life better and happier. Since then I have lived all over and a lot of the points being made are exactly how I feel. CityNerd should cover Anchorage Alaska. I took a vacation there and I really liked all the trails that cut through the city. It was a very scenic and pleasant way to get around the city without a car and it was very possible to get around while -in- the city without a car.
America wedded itself to the automobile, which probably seemed forward-thinking in the 1950s, but now the bill comes due. What ugliness doth offend the eye here in Aurora Avenue (though so similar to countless other US stroads) ! Thanks for another great video!
This really made me think of Colfax Ave/BUS-70 in Denver and Aurora, CO. Very similar histories, designs, and present status with redevelopment and BRT imminent.
Either in a video about stroads, or your next bad land use, I would love to here about the truely auto industry portions. Car dealerships, gas stations, and mechanics. These make up a lot of the straod side usage where I live, and are always giant impermeable heat sinks that make areas unusale put of a car
Wouldn't it be better to aggregate these auto industries in one spot though instead of sprinkling them throughout the city? I mean, you're probably going to be driving there in the first place.
@@kelseyduerksen6404 TBH Gas stations likely are best spread out and in a subdivision to keep cars spread out. Mechanics I agree, probably best to be in one area. I would suggest that area shouldn't be a main road however, and preferably on the outside of town as people go to a mechanic infrequently. Car dealerships are the big one (literally and conceptually). They are far to large and their are to many of them. The Tesla model, with only a few test cars at a dealership and then you order, is a huge improvement to me. Sometimes downtown you'll see multilevel display buildings, and thats better too. But by and large, these are massive parking lots filled with cars that aren't even in use, and they turn sections of a downtown into areas with 0 human appeal. How often do you buy a car that ford needs multiple dealerships in the GTA (Toronto)? Because there are over a dozen. And does the dealership need to have 20 of each model on site? I don't think so, and I think its only possible because thier very lack of investment helps keep property taxes low by avoiding immovable property. At the same time, I imagine land appreciation is a big part of thier profit, and the costs to the city for flooding and depreciating effects are particularly high. I also would be suprised to learn many pay lower property tax rates than residential or commercial, and certainly multifamily or mixed.
@@neolithictransitrevolution427 Yeah, I agree about the gas stations. However, it seems that they are mostly pretty spread out already (at least in Montréal, my nearest city). Also, one could have a discussion about how ethical car dealerships are in the first place..some might call them scammers ha. Totally agree about the Tesla model, way better. Even if you put car dealerships and mechanics on the outskirts, what do you do about city growth? It might be okay for awhile until new developments start popping up around them and then you're back where you started, no?
@@kelseyduerksen6404 For the gas station, I more mean they should be off the main arterial road and in the actual subdivision. Its the regular access to the Stroad I am trying to eliminate as it is a huge point for accidents. Although there is no real changing that now, but where possible connections directly to the stroad should be blocked and side road access used. Ya I mean eliminate car dealerships altogether, sure lol. For the most part, I expect them to move. I mean the car dealerships is a giant parking lot with a box store frame building. And the mechanic is generally not an expensive structure either. But regardless, I think growth can be controlled. The Sprawl we see with autodependancy is certainly avoidable, and the edge of a current city could likely stay in that location for the next hundred years if we change to focus on up zoning. TBH, as with everything, I think the answer here is simply an LVT. Tax these businesses on the land they use in a neighborhood and not the capital they build, and I think you'll see the Car dealership model collapse and things like mechanics find where they are least intrusive.
@@neolithictransitrevolution427 We're probably already at Peak Gas Station with both the auto industry and governments looking to pivot to electrification.
I love how the Bavarian state capital city of Munich managed to replace sections of it's Middle Ring Road: thus e.g. in the south-west the removed the 6 to 8 lane wide arterial road from the surface and put it into a tunnel underneath; On the surface they still have a street, but it's a nice calm street now. One lane + bike lane + a few spots to park in either direction, a wide median strip which even fits another sidewalk, some green and a few benches, and the above ground speed limit is only half the speed which is allowed in the tunnel underneath. Although it sure was quite some stress for the residents in the construction period, the area really got an upgrade and is much nicer now Similar development at the waterfront between the opera house and Gran Central Station in the Norwegian capital city of Oslo. There were 3 roads and highway going parallel with a total of 13 lanes going parallel; They relocated the highway into a tunnel underneath the port area and the new area turned into a modern borough with office buildings, high class living space and public space; In either direction the remaining street has a tram track, bike lane, bus lane and only one lane for all other vehicle traffic
I frequently crossed or rode along the North Seattle stretch of 99 about the time I started watching this channel. I'm glad to see you cover it, even if the topic itself is disappointing. Every time I was near it, it was like I was in a part of Seattle that the City wants to pretend doesn't exist. It looks abandoned and ignored. It's a travesty we let special interests decide for us what Seattle should look like. A world-class city does not let motels, storage facilities, and podunk used car dealerships halt ALL development and life-saving safety improvements along such a valuable corridor.
Great deep dive; as always. Topic suggestion: I came across your channel due to your exploration of the effect LA's long-gone streetcar had on our urban fabric. What about a series on some other defunct streetcar lines and how the areas areas serviced by them have faired over the decades and where they are now. I suspect that, like LA, many of those other lines would be walkable areas with interesting architecture. But maybe not. If it's an idea without legs, you can always do a discussion on free transit systems and what cities can most effectively field them.
@@CityNerd Related: I recently learned that the Chicago El network used to have many more stations and several more lines (of course before they built lines like the Orange line) that were torn down between the 50s and 70s. My current neighborhood of Buena Park used to have an extra station on what is now the Red line between Wilson and Sheridan, creating a denser area now far from a station.
Well done! This video was by far the best thing I've seen on your channel. I live in the Seattle area so that does make it personal, too. For what it's worth, I would consider content that explains how an urban failure came to be and what might be done to redeem it and make it more useful/productive/beautiful/humane would be worth a truckload of Top 10/10 Worst lists. Again, excellent work! Now I'm going to watch it again.
TOPIC IDEA: Utah Department of Transportation has officially endorsed a gondola as the preferred method for easing traffic going up Little Cottonwood Canyon (home to Alta and Snowbird). What do you think of such alternatives in general and this on in particular. Background, it won out over expanding the road for dedicated bus lane service and in an earlier round over a cog railway.
I wonder if there is enough gondola infrastructure being built for a whole video just on gondolas. Plans are in place to build a gondola between Union Station and Dodgers Stadium in LA. A couple of weeks ago the news reported on what the gondola would look like, and it appears to be a rather small vessel with tight seating and no windows.
Gondolas have pretty high throughput, are fairly quick and benefit from a straight path. The peak to peak gondola does 17 mph. While slower then a bus it would be resistant to bad road conditions such as accidents , poor plowing etc. A university in canada is exploring building a gondola from the train to campus as the busses frequently get stuck in bad weather. Added bonus an electric gondola powered by renewables is zero carbon public transport
@@DataLaur I find them fascinating, but have yet to experience one used for transit. I really hoped to ride the one in Portland when I visited earlier this year, but it was closed to the general public.
Lived on Ashworth between 85th & 82nd for 9 years. Boy do I love Green Lake. And goodness was 85th & Aurora a hot mess. I loved to walk around the area - hoofing it over to Wallingford or Maple Leaf, hiking up to Phinney Ridge or over to Greenwood. I just loved walking north Seattle. That being said - Aurora definitely is the stroadiest stroad that every stroaded. It feels like generation after generation of Seattle planning just opted to push off dealing with Aurora. I moved out of the area in 2020; it's good to hear that planning to improve Aurora is trying to keep apace with the mixed use improvements around Roosevelt/Green Lake/Northgate, etc.
You should do Roosevelt Boulevard in Philadelphia! There's a lot of talk at the moment of building a subway line down it (a plan which was supposed to happen in the 70s) and Alan Fisher has talked about it recently. It's also one of the most deadly roads in the region. The Boulevard Subway would probably be one of the most productive transit projects in the entire country if it were to happen, and save hundreds of lives and millions of car commuting hours.
Tucson developed pedestrian crossings they call HAWKs. Can’t recall what the acronym stands for, but it’s a stoplight system to allow pedestrians and bikers to cross Tucson’s many stroads. It blinks yellow, turns red for pedestrians to cross, then blinks red for cars to stop and go if the crosswalk once the crosswalk is empty. The crossing is usually marked with zebra stripes.
glad this road is getting coverage by you! the entire Seattle metro area has A LOT of ugly stroads *COUGH* Pacific Hwy *COUGH* and I'm glad we're starting to fix them.
I just came back to North Seattle after several years in Barcleona. We stayed in Eixample in a building built in the same year as my Seattle house (1926). The street Diagonal in Barcelona is about the same age as Aurora, and could not be more different in terms of walkability and pleasantness for urban pedestrians. (It's also good to drive on.)
Great video. That first shot of Aurora must have been taken from the pedestrian overpass up at 130th street. When I was working childcare during the pandemic, we had to take kids on walking field trips from the nearby community center, and we'd use that bridge when we had to cross Aurora. Walking around the area with a group of 30 elementary school kids, it would be hard to feel less welcome as pedestrians. Improvements and investment are definitely needed in this area as there have been some new middle/lower income apartments and housing developed recently, yet it's still terrible for anyone not in a car.
I live in Licton Springs, and I saw the E Line stop I take to work several times. You're definitely overestimating the E Line's quality/consistency. It will often come every 10-15 mins around 7:45am to 8:15 am. It's always a fun sight to see 3 E Line's at the same stop after your bus was 10 minutes late. Being an urban bus route in a city with a severe mental health and homelessness crisis has made me witness to several mildly horrifying events on that bus. That being said, it's still much faster than the light rail (including walking to/from stations), and the Seattle freeze helps me disassociate through the commute.
That's the thing about the E Line (and the 358 before it) is that it is well used and pretty safe during commute times and can get scary really fast in off peak time periods. I'll ride it into the city for games, concerts and events but I won't ride it after dark.
It's always felt bizarre and abandoned to me too when I traveled it. The story from the Urbanist at least tells us how it came to be: Business owners decided renovations bad so the whole strip has been ignored for decades.
@@rishabhanand4973 that’s irrvevelant. I did not see a single bus on that stroud and it looked ugly as hell. I’d say bottom tier even with US standards.
There are (long overdue) urbanist plans to fork/extend Philadelphia's broad street (subway) line into the Northeast section of the city along the city's stroadiest stroad, Roosevelt Boulevard. Please bring popcorn to this irresistible force vs. immovable object contest.
Appreciate you covering this topic! I actually live a block away from this road south of your study area. It's heartening to see solutions proposed to this currently crappy road.
Seattle native here. I am old enough to remember Aurora before I-5 was built. 99 was super busy between Everett and Tacoma, but I loved going to Dag's drive in on Aurora on Queen Anne in the 1950's. The motels have a long history of sketchy behaviors (I worked as an EMT in Seattle in the 1980's). The worst intersections are 99 and 196th in Lynnwood and 99 and 320 in Federal Way. Great video and I appreciate the comments! Thanks for giving us hope for a safer future for reshaping STROADS!
My high school was only a few blocks off of Aurora and I never ever went there since it was impossible to walk to anywhere useful during lunch. I will say that the branch of the public library at 130th avenue is super underrated. Also the Aurora Bridge feels like a death trap every time I drive over it…
Out of curiosity, how close are those pedestrian overpasses to various schools? I'm wondering if some of them were built to allow kids to cross the highway without interacting with traffic. The two pedestrian overpasses that are out in the county are right next to elementary schools and connect them to large post war subdivisions.
@@HarryLovesRuth there's a high school a couple blocks east of the 130th crossing - nothing too close to the lower crossing but it's around North Seattle College and Cascadia Elementary / Eagle Staff middle school
3:28 - This is so funny. Those Aurora Ave videos have popped up in my feed before. They are enormously popular it seems. All I did was search videos on Seattle!
10:17 There’s a church in Bristol which was badly bombed in the war and subsequently had its graveyard converted into a park. It doesn’t cause the level of consternation that I would have guessed it might but I think it’s been there a while. People also seem to have no issue chilling in a park amidst the few grave stones that are left. Not sure what my view is on urban cemeteries but the Bristol example is food for thought. The church is called Temple Church.
Graveyards/cemeteries weren't always so separate. I can remember being a little kid and having Easter egg hunts in the cemetery behind my grandparents' tiny Methodist Church. Even in middle school, it wasn't entirely out of bounds for the boys toss a ball around before the Wednesday Youth Service at my parents' non-mega Baptist church. Somewhere something kinda shifted, though. Maybe its because cemeteries are often privately owned and church activities have become more concentrated in huge "start up" mega churches? IDK, different faith traditions have different relationships with their dead, and cemeteries dedicated to fallen military or those killed in a disaster are due a certain amount of reverence. I'd like an Easter egg hunt at my final repose, though.
@@HarryLovesRuth I've seen historical images from Winona, Minnesota that shows people taking the streetcar across the Mississippi to the only cemetery (and only purpose developed 'green space' in the area at the time) for picnics. If you have developed parks, and if people don't want to have a more rustic experience, cemeteries definitely fit the bill I wonder why we don't anymore. Maybe it's really just as simple as: we built parks, so now you have the choice
It’s interesting how NJ handles strodes differently than most of the USA. Here they are usually closer to interstates with a center divider, no left turns at all, right hand exists, and overpasses for almost all cross traffic. If roads don’t have overpasses, and it’s too long of a stretch for pedestrians, they will often put in a pedestrian crossing light that will stop the strode, only for pedestrians to cross. They won’t allow any cross car traffic.
This is a timely subject for me--my mom got hit by a car while crossing a pretty major stroad on Monday. Fortunately only minor (but painful) injuries, but it could have been much, much worse. The almost universal follow up question I got from people when I mentioned this was "Why was she walking down [road]?" This was coming, too, from people who consider themselves good urbanists. People who walk and cycle to work. And yet, the idea of walking between any two points on that road struck them as just silly. That reaction, for me, sums up everything awful about these kinds of places. She works there, and was walking a half mile from the office to pick up lunch. Yes, she could've gotten in her car and driven that half a mile, but can we stop to consider how ridiculous that is? Anyway, there's a car accident there at least once a day, so it's not like your odds are any better if you drive. These are hostile, dangerous thoroughfares which are bad for the urban environment, unsafe for pedestrians and cyclists, and often for drivers as well. It shouldn't take someone you care about getting hit by a car to realize that.
I've observed through watching these videos and through my own experience that there are a few different types of stroads, and while none are ideal, some are worse than others. The stroad featured in this video was never purposely planned to be the way it is; it has simply grown organically as the area built up around it and uses changed over time. This is common in older suburban areas and outskirts of downtown areas. It seems like every city in the United States of any size that has been around for a long time has at least a few of these. These hideous stroads are often the worst of the bunch, as they typically have few, if any, access controls and often have a lot of businesses fronting right onto the stroad. Newer suburbs tend to have purpose-built stroads that have more access controls and are therefore closer to being proper highways, but they still have access points (sometimes signalized, sometimes not) for strip malls and apartment complexes. These new style stroads aren't pleasant for walking or biking either, but they usually have better sidewalks. I live along a stroad that, like Aurora, is an old state highway. In this case, the state highway designation has been moved to a divided highway that was built nearby, but the haphazardly created stroad persists. Closer in to town, it is a lot like Aurora, with poor sidewalks and a lot of businesses fronting on the stroad, but farther from the center of town, it becomes more like the newer purpose-built stroads. Whenever I have to make a left turn out of my apartment complex and onto this stroad, at a non-signalized intersection, I feel like I am taking my life into my hands. It is an unpleasant corridor in which to travel regardless of the mode of transportation used. Since it has been replaced by a highway for through traffic, I would hope that it can be improved to make it just a little less unpleasant, but I've seen no sign that this will ever happen. The new highway, unfortunately, has become horribly clogged at certain times of day, so the stroad continues to be used for through traffic. I'm glad to see that there is some movement to fix one nasty stroad, but there are so many that the situation feels hopeless. Every business that fronts onto the stroad will naturally take an interest in any changes and will oppose anything that has an adverse impact. It isn't like the video game Cities: Skylines, where you can just demolish all the businesses and residential areas along a stroad in order to reconfigure it. There may be better uses for the space than self-storage units and car dealerships, but the owners of those businesses aren't going to see it that way. I think most of these stroads are going to be with us, essentially unchanged, for a very long time.
To expand your differentiation of stroads, i think they cam be classified both on history (old highway, outer "Mainstreet", purpose built) and construction (number of lanes, existance of a shared turning lane, signalization, walkablity). Obviously the less lanes the better, inclusion of a shared turn lane can be nearly 50% safer than without, and walkablity peaks at a sidewalk about 5ft back and bottoms out at fence against curb. By combining these 2 sets of criteria you can definitely identify the absolute worst stroads vs the ones with potential to be fixed. (Ironically more lanes means you have more room to work with wich can be a plus, but dealing with the backlash of reducing an "important travel corridor" may not be popular or easy even if its necessary to actually increase capacity and safety.
I really enjoyed this video! I like the deep focus on a single city/a single road (similar to the LA video). I also liked how you described the ways things are improving, and future plans to change Aurora Avenue. More content like this would be great!
You can't drive in the bus lane because businesses park their vehicles there in off-peak hours. Then, at night, the residential streets near Aurora are used as parking lots by those same businesses.
you touched on it briefly, but once you cross into Shoreline Aurora becomes much safer and more pleasant to travel along. It's not close to what we need, but it's still much much better. That has to be the floor.
Thanks for your coverage of Aurora Ave. I live nearby and welcome the chance for it to become something better than it is. Being outside a car along Aurora is daunting in many ways.
So grew up in vegas, lived in Seattle after that, kow coming up on 15 years in Texas. For the love of God, the number of storage units here is WILD. Rivals the numbers of churches per capita but more for land use I imagine.
Thanks for this. I used to live within two blocks of your video but used Greenwood Ave as my place to shop and transit about 4 blocks west. Now I live about two blocks from Aurora 's cousin, Lake City Way. The LCW now gives mixed signals - stroad-y most spots, semi-street in other patches like 125th. I hope the street patches get larger to cover LCW but it does send mixed signals to cars and for decades.
Re: that aruroa crash study: I did a similar study for TDOT and found similar results for Tennessee's cities (Mostly Nashville and Memphis). There's a small handful of stroads that account for the majority of pedestrian fatalities. (Though, pedestrians can and do die in all sorts of ways and places)
Tennesseein' is Tenne-believing. Kingston Pike in Knoxville is literally Highway 70. The "reduced speed when lights flashing" for the school zone is thirty five and people run that light right in front of the cops Loading up your car with moonshine and do ninety over Bearden Hill is tradition, I guess.
On urban cemeteries: I love them, but I'm biased. I work in public history, and I live near Crown Hill cemetery in Indianapolis, which I think is the 3rd largest urban cemetery in the US, and it's absolutely beautiful. It provides a wonderful green space for the city in addition to the tremendous history contained in the lives of people buried there (e.g. President Benjamin Harrison, John Dillinger, and poet James Whitcomb Riley among many other interesting people). Urban cemeteries make wonderful arboretums and community green spaces (e.g. Crown Hill does tours about the trees they have on their grounds), and they can make good "shortcuts" for pedestrians and cyclists getting places (not in Indy, but in some places). I think urban cemeteries can be a really good land use that enriches resident's lives, if they're laid out well and kept well.
Cemeteries can be valuable land uses. The Hollywood Forever Cemetery is in a very dense and transit-accessible (subway + rapid bus) part of Los Angeles. While its primary purpose is as a cemetery, it is also home to popular live music events and outdoor film screenings.
As someone who just moved to Seattle and started watching your videos this year, this is awesome! I’m good friends with a guy that works in King County Metro that recommended your videos, so I know he’ll love this. Thanks for doing this video!
You should look at Mcknight Road north of Pittsburgh, AKA "Mcknightmare". 6 wide lanes, zero sidewalk, very narrow shoulders, parking lots and shopping plazas galore, limited bus service (30 minute frequency if you're lucky, no BRT), many legs of intersections have "no peds" signs, 40 to 50 mph speed limit etc. etc. There is also zero sidewalk (or shoulder for that matter) to any of adjacent roads or housing developments, so its very dangerous to walk anywhere. It would be great to have even some of the amenities in this video.
jfc, no peds? I've only ever seen that entering the freeway. To be fair though, I wouldn't WANT to exist in that space. It's why I'm about as rural as I can get.
I used to live near the area where Aurora passes through Washeli Cemetery, and would commonly walk through the cemetery to access the Interurban on the western side. These days, I still bike the Interurban/Linden greenway to access the city from the northern suburb where I live.
Really liked this video. I know this was mainly a critique but I actually learned a lot. There were lots of things I’ve never thought about. Thank you!
Topic suggestion: Back to school edition. How do cities' school transportation options (walking/biking, bussing, public transit, parents driving) impact traffic/mobility, and vise versa? I'm shocked every year by how radically traffic changes at the start of the school year. I live in St. Louis and in a relatively short commute (~3 mi) I pass 3 public elementary schools, 1 private religious grade school, 1 charter and a daycare; so I'm probably an outlier. A portion of that stretch includes a bus route and is slated for a protected bike lane. St. Louis like a lot of cities has a complex relationship with public v private v charter schools connected to segregation, white flight, displacement etc.
You hit on something with the comment "unchanged since 1962." These stroads are a victim of leapfrog development on one hand, and on the other hand disincentives to upzoning, reuse, and frequent redevelopment. Planning and zoning fail to hit moving targets. Building codes ironically require a useful life beyond the eco omic life; permitting requires consensus of irreconcilable stakeholders; and pointillist historic preservation precludes continuing evolution of built environment. Second best point: up-to-date sidewalk infrastructure at the locations with the absolute least foot traffic (storage centers) AAAACK!
I grew up outside of Seattle and Aurora brings up two very specific memories: 1. Running cross country at Woodland Park where it runs between the park and the zoo. 2. Visiting Seattle Fabrics which is on Aurora. If you are in the area it is a great place to get outdoor fabrics.
Just stayed here on my transit tour of USA. Great to see some deep analysis. There was a weekend market on and the redevelopment project was there sharing the proposals, getting resident feedback.
Here in the Atlanta suburbs Gwinnett County Stone Mountain Highway 78 really need a huge upgrade. The only thing good about the highway is it has sidewalks
Here in Pittsburgh we have a tradition of reclaiming urban cemeteries as unofficial public parks. We go for runs in them, have picnics, etc. I've even camped in one!
I'll have to see what the latest is -- there was a bunch of money for 82nd in that Metro bond that failed a couple years ago! The jurisdictional xfer is excellent, and 82nd should be the second FX line (after Division opens next month).
Ahhh! This is amazing, I have lived right next to that Aurora-85th intersection (on Linden) and it's an absolute nightmare getting to and from I5 along 85th. I never wanted to walk that area because it felt so unsafe. Only had to do it once, but that was enough. Now I live near Aurora around 167th and it's much better up north, especially with the bike trial. Now I'm mostly happy to walk in my area. I'm super on board with giving this area some love, and I'm now hopeful that it may improve in the future. Thank you for teaching me so much about my neighborhood!
IIRC the primary reason for the decision was cost (with speed of construction a close second), they could use the interstate ROW and have easy access to build it. Where as 99 would involve a lot private land negotiation and commercial disruption. Take a look at the discussion going on about the west seattle LR line for an example.
@@LitchAustin Yes, I heard these reasons, but I am not convinced. The I95 construction includes a lot of elevated structures whereas SR99 could have been cut and cover under public property.
This reminds me of a very long stroad in Kochi, Kerala, India (leading from the airport to the touristy bit on the coast). Just, never-ending, no pedestrian access, and a super weird eclectic mix of car dealerships, big box stores, and jewellery outlets.
Hey, I'd love to see a video on the most successful re-developments in America, where 'stroads' have been replaced by transit and people-oriented traffic planning. Surely there are enough places which have completed a transition by now?
Replace 2 lanes with trams. Replace other 2 lanes with tree alley. Remaining one lane is what remains for cars. Pedestrians get islands to cross safely. Re-zone the area for mid rises, mixed commercial, offices and residential. Build bus lanes 90° to tramline, feeding passengers to it and the lightrail showed here.
imo they should flatten the entire road surface, including the pavement, add a 2-way bike lane on one side of the entire route of the road replacing one road lane and separate it from car traffic with a concrete curb piece on both sides (to also separate the pavement) with a 24/7 bus lane on each side of the road with red coloured asphalt (or use the colour of the most dominate colour of the standard King Country metro or SoundTransit liveries)...
I loved this format. Obviously you have a personal connection to Aurora, but the in-depth history, current state, and future outlook of one corridor, and why it's important and connected to everything around it is so great. And kudos on cranking this out, something with this amount of detail and REPORTING is not easy at all to produce. Keep it up! We love this channel!
Golf courses and cemeteries are a good use of land adjacent to the end of airport runways-- no tall buildings. See Las Vegas Sunset/LV Blvd intersection and the cemetery on Eastern./Patrick.
Watching from Edmonton Canada. Love your videos. Please talk about the history of cities from villages to industrial revolution to where we are today. How did the invention of Cars and Fridges change our cities, .... please talk about how cities were chaped by discrimination...
I'm surprised by your comment about that Chick Fil-A at 130th and Aurora. It seems me that it's ALWAYS backed up with traffic trying to get through the drive-thru lane(s); very often the traffic actually spills over onto Aurora itself, causing more problems at the 130th intersection. Whenever I go there I make sure to order online first so I don't have to wait in that stupid line.
Yeah, maybe it was just a weird day? It was a Wednesday right in the noon hour when it should've been busiest and...what I saw was what was in the video! Just one car waiting. Vegas would never.
I rode the bus south of the study area last weekend. I was amazed at the high speeds on the road posted limits were over 50kph Seems like a lot could be gained by lowering the speed limits. That would improve safety at the cross walks and other pedestrian amenities.
Unfortunately, the speed limit of 45 mph is already a joke. The road supports going much much faster (straight, flat, wide), so people just go 60+mph (100kph).
The only way to slow people down is to make them afraid to go faster, which changing some signs won't do. It would take a full reconstruct, which opens up possibilities for other improvements
@@ebnertra0004 One lane each direction would it. All it takes is one person going the speed limit and everyone has to follow the law. That is how a lot of Seattle streets got a lot slower.
St. Rose Parkway in Vegas is actually a brand new stroad. It was originally a pure highway with very few stop lights and no business. One redeeming thing with St. Rose - at least it borders a dedicated bike path, so as the area urbanizes, it can help in the non-Summer months.
13:25 I think as simple as developers see bus riders as lower income not able to afford the luxury apartments they want to build while train/trolley riders & cyclists are. You'd think that at least some affordable/subsidized housing places would target Aurora though.
There are plenty of apartments designed for bus riders in Seattle. There are other reasons for the lack of growth. One is that a lot of owners just aren't interested in selling. There are a lot of light industrial properties that are tough to move. Motels are doing really well in Seattle. I'm not sure why, but car dealerships tend to cling to their location. Another is that building apartments in Seattle is very difficult from a regulatory standpoint. But partly it is because Aurora just isn't attractive. I would much rather live on Linden, and just walk a couple minutes to the bus. By the way, there are subsidized apartments on Linden. It is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Aurora is ugly -- people don't want to live there. It is ugly in part because there aren't many apartments. The project mentioned in this video hopes to break that cycle.
I would love to see something about the impact of a stroad on an area's retail landscape. I just moved to Northgate and I've had to interact with Aurora on my bike way more often than I would like. Need to drop off a UPS package? Gotta go to Aurora. Get my cat's prescription cat food? PetSmart on Aurora. Closest Asian market that has those aloe drinks I like? Aurora. Hardware? Unless I want to venture to the U District or Ballard, the Home Depot on Aurora is really my only option.
I hear you in general, but the Ace hardware on Maple Leaf is excellent and just up the hill from Northgate. A bit steep for a bike, but not a bad walk (depending on where you are in Northgate). The 67 bus will get there as well.
Challenge your mayor. We did and it worked. We challenged him to walk from one area of downtown to another, roughly 3 miles. He did it. He was honked at by drivers 3 times, even though he was crossing where he was suppose to, and he was almost hit once. That resulted in that driver stopping to threaten him. Sad thing is many people do this walk daily.
I’ve often thought of inviting my city leaders to walk my neighborhood and see the problems for themselves. I’m happy to hear it worked for you!
how did it work? has your mayor redesigned the city? The north american corp lobby has gov't under their thumb. Citizens need a separation of corp's & gov't like we did church & gov't.
I so wanna yell at bad drivers but you can’t cause they have a more then 200 pound weapon 😭
I had to drop a car off at one of the car dealers along Aurora and had a few hours to kill. I could just make out a crappy restaurant a few long blocks north of the car dealer. But getting there on foot wasn’t easy and also involved crossing Aurora. It’s perhaps one of the most pedestrian unfriendly places in all of Seattle. You also completely left out the southern end of Hwy 99 now known as International Blvd near the region’s main airport. It’s also largely an ugly legacy mess that’s been lightly dressed up with a bit of landscaping mixed in with the strip clubs. Seattle can build one of the most needlessly expensive power substations in the country, relative to it’s capacity, but cannot allocate money to cleaning up some of the most ugly, unsafe, and poorly managed parts of the city.
Seattle *had* a mayor, Mike McGinn, who was a bike and transit activist on the way to becoming mayor, and travelled by bike to his campaign events. That was a decade ago -- I honestly think he helped a bit, but getting a mayor in favor of a walkable, bikeable city isn't *nearly* enough -- our local politics get super messy, and the state has way too much influence over a lot of what the city can even do. As mayor he tried to fight the utterly ridiculous, expensive, and counterproductive downtown auto tunnel, and he lost badly.
Thanks for the tour of the stroadiest part of the most stroady stroad in the city. It was stroaderific.
That redesign certainly looks like a significant improvement. If they could actually get it down to one lane of car traffic in each direction (and hopefully without the off peak exception for the bus lane), then it would really breathe life back into this place.
That would be ideal, but I think it is unrealistic. The problem is that this project only covers a small section of a roadway that goes for dozens of kilometers. Bus lanes exist in some areas, but not in others. Thus traffic -- including buses -- would funnel into one lane, causing congestion. That is a weakness with this project -- it needs to extend a lot farther.
I used to live right on top of this area. A big challenge is it's about the only significant non freeway north south car thoroughfare in seattle west of greenlake / I5. That area is surrounded by low density housing and transit connections from there are time consuming and only really service downtown. There's a ton of demand for thru traffic and a reduction to 1 lane is very likely to displace traffic onto Holman/Greenwood (which are 2 lane 'arterials'). Some sort of a streetcar or dedicated BRT lanes and improvements for pedestrians make sense but I'm not sure any of these changes will lower traffic demand in area.
In parallel the bus line is probably reasonably statistically safe and I used it to commute for 2 years but most area residents (I'm a semi-regular at a brewery close to 100th and Aurora) are uncomfortable taking the bus for safety reasons. I get strange looks from people when I mention I take the E line. So almost everyone drives (potentially improvements to pedestrian infra could help?)
@@bpcoxkr In Los Angeles, Metro was talking about making all the buses free, permanently. Everyone who rides them knows that would give free shelter to homeless people, who would have a climate-controlled place to sit all day long. So instead Metro has set up a number of discount or free fare programs; people have to apply for those benefits. They've also started talking about how they're beefing up security systemwide. I hope this ends their on-again, off-again relationship with the Sheriff Department. I don't take public transit often, but I don't want to have to worry about what crazies I might encounter on the bus each time I ride. And they're ditching the cloth seats in favor of plastic. Good to see they're getting real about things. I also hope they go with the Green Line extension down Hawthorne Blvd. Better to run the light rail down our biggest stroad, where people already take buses, than through the middle of a quiet R1 or R2 neighborhood behind people's backyards. Unfortunately, the more sensible option will cost a lot more.
@@bpcoxkr Yes, the E carries on the legacy of the 358, which it replaced. Crazy stuff seems to happen pretty regularly on that bus. My mom used to live up in Haller Lake, so I took it from time to time and was struck by that. So was my mom.
Cutting down to one lane is simply not viable, that road is packed solid during the rush hours and there really are no alternative options. Seattle is a heavily developed hilly isthmus, water on the east and west sides. In order to get downtown from there are basically 3 options, Aurora, I-5, and Lake City Way and they are all way over capacity.
The lightrail northmost point ends at northgate at the moment, they are working as fast as they can to expand it to shoreline but there was a concrete truck strike and covid worker shortage that have delayed things. Even then it is going to take people time to adjust and that won't address the commercial traffic that aurora serves.
"Nearly 20 years ago, Seattle was on the cusp of a complete revamp of Aurora Avenue that would have mirrored the improvements that Shoreline made to their portion of SR 99. Then, property owners like Faye Garneau (now passed away), the owner of the Aurora Collision Center, pushed back on the improvements." - article from The Urbanist you mentioned
NIMBYs gotta NIMBY
The owner of a car body repair shop wants more cars and more traffic, paint me surprised 🙄
Exactly who you want setting policy for the main throughfare running through multiple urban villages
I feel like as a rule of thumb, if the owner of a “collision center” is pushing back on road safety upgrades, it means you are going in the right direction.
@Quantum Passport which is why diabetics shouldn't demand price caps on insulin ;D
"Stroad on stroad violence" is my new favorite planning term
It's a good description of 44th Street & McDowell in Phoenix, an intersection I've had to walk completely across twice in the last day.
More of these videos on how to fix bad urban design would be great. We all enjoy criticising these places but fixing them needs to be a bigger topic of conversation.
I can't agree more! Anyone can complain. It's how to move forward and improve these crappy situations that is most important.
Mocking is easier and more fun
but I get it!
100% this
The street capping video os also pretty good. A great way to reconnect cities that have been filled with freeways.
People can see the bad with their own eyes. We need visions of better to actually work towards and advocate for beyond "this is bad, fix it"
This is my favorite topic yet, and I think the most import thing in Urban planning at the moment. These stroads are not only the most dangerous and expensive part of existing infrastructure, but also offer linear corridors with mixed zoning that could evolve to glue our suburban cities together with an urban mesh.
Yes!!!
'To improve a stroad' can be a series. Love it
I think this would a great resource. Looking at how different cities have approached this, and if possible what that has looked like fiscally.
"...the E-Line is an extremely democratic service for a very diverse population on a roadway that's kind of a mess, otherwise."
I just stumbled onto your station a couple of weeks ago, and I've been devouring your content in my free time ever since. As both the consultant PM and consultant engineer of record for King County Metro's RapidRide E & F Lines project, I was surprised and delighted to see a creator I admire shout out a slice of my professional portfolio still performing a decade after it entered service. I was and remain incredibly proud of the work we all did to deliver the project; it was truly a team effort backing a mission we all believed in.
And you're absolutely right: Aurora Ave N still has its share of challenges to tackle; thanks for amplifying the impact of our work in your own imitable voice.
I think we really ought to talk about the streetwalkers.
I know you couldn't really mention it in the video because of algorithm concerns and squeamishness about the subject but it really is a factor that is shaping the issues around Aurora.
I remember back in the 70s Aurora had the reputation for being a prime working ground for the ladies. It actually started to go away in the 2000s and early 2010s because they were finding it more profitable and safer to use things like craigslist and backpage to arrange liaisons. There were still some ladies out there at night but far fewer than we see today. But then there was the crackdown on those venues for sexual services and so there was a return of old habits and Aurora bloomed again.
The association of that road and that profession has always made any investment in the area difficult if not downright toxic. There is a since that "those people" don't deserve any better and any civil infrastructure investment in the area is a waste of resources. A lot of people seem to think building sidewalks along aurora would somehow be rewarding the hookers.
I thought it was a marvel of editing that much have cost hours of wasted video you couldn't use to avoid get any of them in this piece.
Personally I think the best solution is to legalize and regulate prostitution but I am pretty far out of step with the larger Seattle community on this.
I’m really down for anything to get these damn ladies off the side of the road. Lived in an apartment right next to aurora for a year with my girlfriend, mfs would try to pick her up when she’s walking to her car with sweats and a jacket on. Unbelievable & wildly uncomfortable. Never again
It's a big issue and I am always worried about their safety out there. I dislike that even among more liberal circles, there's an undertone that any risk or discomfort to prostitutes is deserved. But they're just trying to make ends meet within a larger context of how hard the cycle of poverty is, and they deserve basic safety and amenities (like good sidewalks) as well.
@@NefariousHippie ... most people don't understand basic Human decency, everyone deserves to be treated with a little decency 🤔
That changed several years ago with the rise of those Stupid fake scripted "Reality Shows", like Jerry Springer, Maury Povish, Morton Downey Jr and other obnoxious shows..like Survivor. All those shows were crafted to exploit people, to turn people into voyeurs and predators, by stimulated those primal traits that a civilized society works to suppress. The "Trumpocracy" does the same thing, that's why so many terrible people have come out of the woodwork lately 🤨 imo.
Coolspaceguy said it in jest, but I respect your earnest problem solving attitude
I work at one of the big box stores on this track and I have the most solidarity with them.
Customers will say the most vile shit about them and expect me to join in, as if I don’t have more in common with those women than I do with most of the customers at this store.
I’d love to hear more about the self-storage mystery. As someone who’s lived in both LA and SEA it’s puzzling just how many storage companies seem to always take up dense/historic buildings/areas and overshadow their surroundings…
Here in NYC, they take up old multistory pre-war commercial buildings.
1. They brick up the windows.
2. They don't have to heavily invest in climate control. Just keep it tolerable in winter and summer.
Low operating expense and they don't have to upgrade the infrastructure.
I'm in Brooklyn and there are many new self-storage buildings in more "affordable" neighborhoods that could've been apartments instead.
Self storage is more common in pricey cities because apartments and houses tend to smaller and incomes tend to be higher.
For instance in cities like London or NYC, some self storage facilities now offer climate controlled wine storage. Why ? Because even someone making a few hundred thousand a year can only afford a relatively small house (compared to what a few hundred thousand might get you in A low cost city like Cleveland).
So people rent extra space for their toys , hobbies etc because they cannot afford a massive house with a garage , wine cellar etc.
That’s my observation as why they seem to exist in dense urban areas.
People like to think all of their junk is living that hip urban lifestyle.
Self storage is going up everywhere... I'm in the suburbs and just last year they built a 4 story storage facility across the street for us (our house backs up to an arterial road). I suspect its because its a business with low overhead that has a subscription model of revenue. People put their junk in these places and basically get used to paying for it despite seldom or never accessing the stuff that's stored there. Think of it like a video streaming service you choose not to cancel "just in case"... only at a magnitude or more of the cost. The sad truth is that people overvalue their stuff and will pay $2000/yr to store stuff that has a combined value of $5000... which very quickly becomes a poor financial decision. They don't see it as "I could replace all of this for 2.5 years worth of storage costs" , they see it as "I've had that for years, I don't want to throw it away even if I can't fit it into my current living space". The businesses love it because even the climate control ones have very low cost to operate once they're constructed. They're typically large well insulated buildings with limited windows that only require 1 employee on-site at any given time.
I'm a boomer life-long Seattle resident - this video is impressively thorough, and I didn't catch any sloppy bloopers, well done and thank you. A completely opposite topic this reminds me of, probably not CityNerd's bailiwick so much, is about the formerly-major US-route state highways that have been upstaged in usage by the Interstate highway system, out in rural areas, especially in the middle of our country, the Rockies and the Plains. I'm a road-trip enthusiast and have had many transcontinental trip opportunities trying different routes. I've been pleasantly surprised by taking US routes on these trips rather than the interstates. Examples: US12 Helena MT to Minnesota, US20 Casper WY to Rockford IL, and just last month, US36 from Denver to Quincy IL. 36 in particular was a joy, with very light traffic on a July weekday, almost no one to pass or be passed by. The absence of semi trucks is especially pleasant. You do have to slow down for towns, but they are real towns rather than just gas stations and McDonalds, interesting to look at. I recommend this to other road travelers.
I can second this. I used to avoid the interstate because my little four-banger could barely keep up with traffic, which towered over me. I found that the US highways travel through more scenic areas, have far less traffic, generate less stress, go through interesting towns, &c. I wonder what the difference is in traffic fatalities between the two.
A lot of US cities famous for being walkable and urban are only walkable across an area that is less than the city limits (like this example here). Would be interesting to compare cities (or regions) by the amount of area that is actually urbanist friendly.
Yes! I want to see something broader than isolated neighborhoods when I attempt online research. Hard to find.
Interesting idea...I'd have to think about data sources.
@@CityNerd OSM is getting there; but no matter the source, and even with perfect data, it is tough to study something like this.
Off the top of my mind you could try an aggregator of a variety of walkability factors, like walkscore.
Yeah, Seattle's sidewalks are many, but mostly in disrepair, due to many of them being put in adjacent landowner's care. Seattle does have a map displaying complaints on this disrepair/accessibility issue
Some years back, I drove from Everett to Tacoma entirely on the 99, and it was just about solid stroad the entire way, briefly punctuated by a cemetery, a zoo, a park, and the like, and the Alakan Way Viaduct (since torn and and replaced with a tunnel). It's kind of incredible.
Yeah, Pacific Highway South is a whole other universe!
99 from Portland to Salem much more interesting than I-5 too!
@@jessimaticthe 5 from Portland to Salem is horrible lol
"Street design should account for what people do and not the other way around"
Perfectly said
Yes because statistically and in reality traffic-light intersections are the most dangerous for drivers… let alone other modes of travel. That is why people cross anywhere other than intersections. *But!* stroads mean faster traffic mowing people down so it would “seem” safer than it actually is at lights. Roundabouts but single lane roundabouts not double lane ones would ease traffic speed on down for to make intersections safe to cross.
9:54 yeah when one is a pedestrian using his/her own energy and moving at a slow pace one is going to take the shortest/most efficient path no matter what the infrastructure wants you to do as long as it feels reasonably safe compared to the other option.
Its a fundamental law of nature, "conservation of energy", and all living things practice it. Typically exemplified by birds only flying away to the nearest branch they consider out of danger, or pidgeons just power walking away from people.
Basically all life seeks to minimize its energy expenditure to the bare minimum. For pedestrians this means taking the most direct route, weighted by personal risk tollerance. (I'm sure a study could be done to determine the minimum distance crosswalks need to be spaced before normal people start jaywalking. You will always have outliers like how somepeople will litter while within arms reach of a trashcan.)
@@jasonreed7522 as a pedestrian in Phoenix I often see people jaywalk across stroads sometimes just a few yards away from a crosswalk. When your destination is directly across the street and you're on foot, any crosswalk is too far as long as there will be a gap in traffic large enough to get across.
@@danieldaniels7571 when I was a walker in Orlando Florida I learned to Jay walk for my own safety even though normally I don’t like to break rules.
. I did not jaywalk because I am too lazy to use the crosswalk but the crosswalk was dangerous, even though there was enough time to walk across at least six lanes however they had turning right allowed and the speed limit was so fast, I believe 35 or 45 mph and most people drove 10 miles over that plus there were hedges so most people couldn’t see a walker before they turned right.
@ the previous commnters: i know its a legal term in the us...but can you please stop calling it jaywalking? we dont need to further perpetuate a slur... its simply walking across the street...
@@okaeT no that definitely was not me. For one thing I was not on that road for another thing I was not two woman with a Carriage for another thing this was over a month ago. But I’m glad you save the two women.
If you ever do the urban cemetery video, you should take a look at Colma, California. Located just outside of San Francisco, Colma is a town with a majority of its land used for cemeteries and complimentary uses. Today, there are 1,500,000 dead people in Colma despite there only being 1,500 alive.
San Francisco issued a moratorium on cemeteries in 1901 and began relocating existing graves outside of city limits shortly after. The local politics that led up to this are really interested from a planning perspective. People were fed up with how much prime real estate was taken up by cemeteries in their neighborhoods.
Haha, Colma featured last week! You mean the world's first Power Center is surrounded by cemeteries?? That's...something.
@@CityNerd I just watched that video after this one and noticed Colma right away haha.
Also worth looking at New York City for some aspects of this. There is a "cemetery belt" through Brooklyn and Queens that were all developed around the same time as, then, rural cemeteries.
There's a word for Colma that I fell in love with the first time I heard it: necropolis
@@dwc1964hmmm
It's really nice to see videos on improvements that are being made, rather than just how things are bad!
As a current resident of the Bitter Lake area - thank you for making this video. I saw a video you made about stroads a while back and immediately thought of 99. I've noticed more community action starting to take place and this is re-energizing me to get involved.
quick urban cemetery note: There's three very large urban cemeteries in Philly that I frequent - Mt Moriah deep in West philly, the Woodlands by University City in west, and Laurel Hill Cemetery in East Falls. I'd say without a doubt these are all equal or better land uses than a traditional park since they both function as cemeteries, where people in or with ties to the city can bury and visit loved ones, and as regular parks with quite a lot of trees and other flora. Mt Moriah is large and relatively unkempt but is used as a park quite a lot and the other two are extremely heavily used as parks, even hosting concerts, community gardens, skill shares, school trips, flea markets, and more like any other good park. The old mausoleum and grave and sculpture architecture makes them even more unique places to explore and walk and have picnics than many other parks. I personally hate the idea of using land to just bury dead people in toxic boxes, but these cemeteries are actually really great examples of how death should be treated in my opinion. Death is acknowledged and respected at them but the ecology is still diverse and the setting is open and accessible and useful to the living.
as someone that lives in Chicago, my first thought at the beginning of the video was Aurora, IL -- which, funnily enough, is a textbook example of suburban hell and enormous stroads!
As someone who lived in Denver, my first thought was Aurora, CO, for exactly the same reason.
Party on, Wayne!
@@Ganondward Party on, Garth! (yeah, that's where my brain went too)
I grew up just north of Aurora, IL and immediately thought the same as you. It's an awful place in so many ways. Nor does it need to be. In weird coincidence, I learned to drive manual transmission in Aurora, CO.
I know, I actually thought of going through the various geographic associations people could have with "Aurora" - Chicago and Colorado come to mind, but there are lots. Seemed too long-winded a way to intro though
Super cool to see all of the old photos of Aurora and the surrounding area, and thanks for talking about advocacy groups and ways to get involved! I've never seen anyone else on the pedestrian crossings so it was nice to see someone else using them XD
A student in your field at Cal told me "what these large storage rental places actually are storing is the land they sit on, until a better use comes along." A thought to explore if you do look into those things. (Still awaiting your video on why you chose and love living in Las Vegas!)
Same deal with surface parking lots in downtowns.
@@Default78334wowieee!
@@Default78334never thought about that before, thanks a million for sharing, i will think about surface parking lots with a salt of optimism!
Your channel made me appreciate even more living in Europe
I lived at 145th & Linden when the E-Line came into service! (RIP Line 358...) As someone who lived in that high density zone in Bitter Lake, it's really easy to understand why the E-Line sees such high ridership. For me it comes down to a few factors... the E-Line connects to the north all the way to Aurora Village, which connects regional buses from Edmonds, Lynnwood and Everett. It's also a bus that you can pre-pay for and board at any of the 3 doors, which made it run super fast! The biggest factor, IMO, is crucial for any successful transportation design: it ran frequently enough that it was easy and quick to transfer to other bus lines along the route. Not sure if this is still a thing, but bus drivers would intentionally wait at key transfer points for the passing E-Line, which was an incredible part of Seattle transportation. Your bus was just waiting there for you instead of pulling away as you're running for it (I'm looking at you Trimet....)
I definitely see an argument for transforming Aurora, however I think it doesn't need to be fully transformative as it always just felt like the road you take to get places, rather than a nice street to explore and walk along. I would typically use the Interurban Trail for that. What Aurora really needs is better lighting and sidewalks around bus stops and much more frequent crosswalks (maybe with some traffic calming near those crossings?) With that said, as long as there's a median (and there is along inner Aurora), you can just cross one way when it's safe and then cross the other when it's safe. We can't necessarily fix stroads, but having a median is an absolute life saver when you're on foot!
Side note about the less savory parts of Aurora.... my partner and I affectionately called Aurora & 85th (specifically the Jack in the Box) the Hellmouth. The things you would see!! 0.0 .... but nothing will ever compare with seeing the Captain Jack Sparrow male prostitute. Legendary.
Who knew urban planning was so interesting, complicated, and underestimated in importance? Thank you for making the whole topic interesting/entertaining and for introducing me to new vocabulary (i.e. signalized intersections, urban land use, stroads, etc.).
I don't live in Seattle but we have strong connections there.
To be fair Evergreen/Washelli Cemetery was probably out in the country when created in 1885. Otherwise, I agree that perhaps cemeteries shouldn't take up so many acres. That might explain why burials there are so pricey these days - way more than when my in-laws were buried there in the 50's and 80's. Do cemeteries pay the same property taxes as residential property in the same neighborhood or are there exceptions for different land uses?
Oh I'm sure Evergreen-Washelli was in the deep hinterlands when it was established!
Wow. Extremely clever how you appended the prefix "St" to the word "road" to create a unique and marvelously wonderous new word. I stand in awe of such brilliant crafting of language. A masterpiece!
It's nice to hear about progress being made. We've made so many mistakes over the last 80 years, but here and there we're finally beginning to repair the damage.
In the cities, yeah. Rural and suburban America seem like they're still stuck in the 80s and despise change.
I really love this channel. I became a pedestrian about a decade ago and at first it was hard but once I adapted I found it really made my life better and happier. Since then I have lived all over and a lot of the points being made are exactly how I feel.
CityNerd should cover Anchorage Alaska. I took a vacation there and I really liked all the trails that cut through the city. It was a very scenic and pleasant way to get around the city without a car and it was very possible to get around while -in- the city without a car.
America wedded itself to the automobile, which probably seemed forward-thinking in the 1950s, but now the bill comes due. What ugliness doth offend the eye here in Aurora Avenue (though so similar to countless other US stroads) ! Thanks for another great video!
This really made me think of Colfax Ave/BUS-70 in Denver and Aurora, CO. Very similar histories, designs, and present status with redevelopment and BRT imminent.
Either in a video about stroads, or your next bad land use, I would love to here about the truely auto industry portions. Car dealerships, gas stations, and mechanics. These make up a lot of the straod side usage where I live, and are always giant impermeable heat sinks that make areas unusale put of a car
Wouldn't it be better to aggregate these auto industries in one spot though instead of sprinkling them throughout the city? I mean, you're probably going to be driving there in the first place.
@@kelseyduerksen6404 TBH Gas stations likely are best spread out and in a subdivision to keep cars spread out.
Mechanics I agree, probably best to be in one area. I would suggest that area shouldn't be a main road however, and preferably on the outside of town as people go to a mechanic infrequently.
Car dealerships are the big one (literally and conceptually). They are far to large and their are to many of them. The Tesla model, with only a few test cars at a dealership and then you order, is a huge improvement to me. Sometimes downtown you'll see multilevel display buildings, and thats better too. But by and large, these are massive parking lots filled with cars that aren't even in use, and they turn sections of a downtown into areas with 0 human appeal. How often do you buy a car that ford needs multiple dealerships in the GTA (Toronto)? Because there are over a dozen. And does the dealership need to have 20 of each model on site? I don't think so, and I think its only possible because thier very lack of investment helps keep property taxes low by avoiding immovable property. At the same time, I imagine land appreciation is a big part of thier profit, and the costs to the city for flooding and depreciating effects are particularly high. I also would be suprised to learn many pay lower property tax rates than residential or commercial, and certainly multifamily or mixed.
@@neolithictransitrevolution427 Yeah, I agree about the gas stations. However, it seems that they are mostly pretty spread out already (at least in Montréal, my nearest city). Also, one could have a discussion about how ethical car dealerships are in the first place..some might call them scammers ha. Totally agree about the Tesla model, way better. Even if you put car dealerships and mechanics on the outskirts, what do you do about city growth? It might be okay for awhile until new developments start popping up around them and then you're back where you started, no?
@@kelseyduerksen6404 For the gas station, I more mean they should be off the main arterial road and in the actual subdivision. Its the regular access to the Stroad I am trying to eliminate as it is a huge point for accidents. Although there is no real changing that now, but where possible connections directly to the stroad should be blocked and side road access used.
Ya I mean eliminate car dealerships altogether, sure lol. For the most part, I expect them to move. I mean the car dealerships is a giant parking lot with a box store frame building. And the mechanic is generally not an expensive structure either. But regardless, I think growth can be controlled. The Sprawl we see with autodependancy is certainly avoidable, and the edge of a current city could likely stay in that location for the next hundred years if we change to focus on up zoning.
TBH, as with everything, I think the answer here is simply an LVT. Tax these businesses on the land they use in a neighborhood and not the capital they build, and I think you'll see the Car dealership model collapse and things like mechanics find where they are least intrusive.
@@neolithictransitrevolution427 We're probably already at Peak Gas Station with both the auto industry and governments looking to pivot to electrification.
As someone who grew up using Aurora avenue multiple times per week, and as a patreon supporter, thank you for making this video.
My pleasure!
I love how the Bavarian state capital city of Munich managed to replace sections of it's Middle Ring Road: thus e.g. in the south-west the removed the 6 to 8 lane wide arterial road from the surface and put it into a tunnel underneath; On the surface they still have a street, but it's a nice calm street now. One lane + bike lane + a few spots to park in either direction, a wide median strip which even fits another sidewalk, some green and a few benches, and the above ground speed limit is only half the speed which is allowed in the tunnel underneath.
Although it sure was quite some stress for the residents in the construction period, the area really got an upgrade and is much nicer now
Similar development at the waterfront between the opera house and Gran Central Station in the Norwegian capital city of Oslo. There were 3 roads and highway going parallel with a total of 13 lanes going parallel; They relocated the highway into a tunnel underneath the port area and the new area turned into a modern borough with office buildings, high class living space and public space; In either direction the remaining street has a tram track, bike lane, bus lane and only one lane for all other vehicle traffic
I wish they would do something like that with Aurora.
I frequently crossed or rode along the North Seattle stretch of 99 about the time I started watching this channel. I'm glad to see you cover it, even if the topic itself is disappointing.
Every time I was near it, it was like I was in a part of Seattle that the City wants to pretend doesn't exist. It looks abandoned and ignored. It's a travesty we let special interests decide for us what Seattle should look like. A world-class city does not let motels, storage facilities, and podunk used car dealerships halt ALL development and life-saving safety improvements along such a valuable corridor.
Great deep dive; as always. Topic suggestion: I came across your channel due to your exploration of the effect LA's long-gone streetcar had on our urban fabric. What about a series on some other defunct streetcar lines and how the areas areas serviced by them have faired over the decades and where they are now. I suspect that, like LA, many of those other lines would be walkable areas with interesting architecture.
But maybe not. If it's an idea without legs, you can always do a discussion on free transit systems and what cities can most effectively field them.
I'm definitely gonna do more on defunct streetcars, it's a pet topic of mine! Gonna have to choose a new city (or a few), though.
@@CityNerd Related: I recently learned that the Chicago El network used to have many more stations and several more lines (of course before they built lines like the Orange line) that were torn down between the 50s and 70s. My current neighborhood of Buena Park used to have an extra station on what is now the Red line between Wilson and Sheridan, creating a denser area now far from a station.
Well done! This video was by far the best thing I've seen on your channel. I live in the Seattle area so that does make it personal, too. For what it's worth, I would consider content that explains how an urban failure came to be and what might be done to redeem it and make it more useful/productive/beautiful/humane would be worth a truckload of Top 10/10 Worst lists. Again, excellent work! Now I'm going to watch it again.
TOPIC IDEA: Utah Department of Transportation has officially endorsed a gondola as the preferred method for easing traffic going up Little Cottonwood Canyon (home to Alta and Snowbird). What do you think of such alternatives in general and this on in particular. Background, it won out over expanding the road for dedicated bus lane service and in an earlier round over a cog railway.
I wonder if there is enough gondola infrastructure being built for a whole video just on gondolas. Plans are in place to build a gondola between Union Station and Dodgers Stadium in LA. A couple of weeks ago the news reported on what the gondola would look like, and it appears to be a rather small vessel with tight seating and no windows.
Gondolas have pretty high throughput, are fairly quick and benefit from a straight path. The peak to peak gondola does 17 mph.
While slower then a bus it would be resistant to bad road conditions such as accidents , poor plowing etc.
A university in canada is exploring building a gondola from the train to campus as the busses frequently get stuck in bad weather. Added bonus an electric gondola powered by renewables is zero carbon public transport
@@DataLaur I find them fascinating, but have yet to experience one used for transit. I really hoped to ride the one in Portland when I visited earlier this year, but it was closed to the general public.
@@rosskgilmour Yeah, I hate it when they plow the streets of Los Angeles. Just kidding. LOL!
Great point!
San Diego is investigating using gondolas to traverse the local canyons. I would be interested in this topic being investigated in general.
Lived on Ashworth between 85th & 82nd for 9 years. Boy do I love Green Lake. And goodness was 85th & Aurora a hot mess. I loved to walk around the area - hoofing it over to Wallingford or Maple Leaf, hiking up to Phinney Ridge or over to Greenwood. I just loved walking north Seattle. That being said - Aurora definitely is the stroadiest stroad that every stroaded. It feels like generation after generation of Seattle planning just opted to push off dealing with Aurora. I moved out of the area in 2020; it's good to hear that planning to improve Aurora is trying to keep apace with the mixed use improvements around Roosevelt/Green Lake/Northgate, etc.
Well said!! As a Seattle resident I agree with everything you said and the video
You should do Roosevelt Boulevard in Philadelphia! There's a lot of talk at the moment of building a subway line down it (a plan which was supposed to happen in the 70s) and Alan Fisher has talked about it recently. It's also one of the most deadly roads in the region. The Boulevard Subway would probably be one of the most productive transit projects in the entire country if it were to happen, and save hundreds of lives and millions of car commuting hours.
Tucson developed pedestrian crossings they call HAWKs. Can’t recall what the acronym stands for, but it’s a stoplight system to allow pedestrians and bikers to cross Tucson’s many stroads. It blinks yellow, turns red for pedestrians to cross, then blinks red for cars to stop and go if the crosswalk once the crosswalk is empty. The crossing is usually marked with zebra stripes.
glad this road is getting coverage by you! the entire Seattle metro area has A LOT of ugly stroads *COUGH* Pacific Hwy *COUGH* and I'm glad we're starting to fix them.
I just came back to North Seattle after several years in Barcleona. We stayed in Eixample in a building built in the same year as my Seattle house (1926). The street Diagonal in Barcelona is about the same age as Aurora, and could not be more different in terms of walkability and pleasantness for urban pedestrians. (It's also good to drive on.)
Great video. That first shot of Aurora must have been taken from the pedestrian overpass up at 130th street. When I was working childcare during the pandemic, we had to take kids on walking field trips from the nearby community center, and we'd use that bridge when we had to cross Aurora. Walking around the area with a group of 30 elementary school kids, it would be hard to feel less welcome as pedestrians. Improvements and investment are definitely needed in this area as there have been some new middle/lower income apartments and housing developed recently, yet it's still terrible for anyone not in a car.
Oh man. Walked that footbridge every day :D brings back memories.
I live in Licton Springs, and I saw the E Line stop I take to work several times. You're definitely overestimating the E Line's quality/consistency. It will often come every 10-15 mins around 7:45am to 8:15 am. It's always a fun sight to see 3 E Line's at the same stop after your bus was 10 minutes late. Being an urban bus route in a city with a severe mental health and homelessness crisis has made me witness to several mildly horrifying events on that bus. That being said, it's still much faster than the light rail (including walking to/from stations), and the Seattle freeze helps me disassociate through the commute.
Hey the E line is special.
That's the thing about the E Line (and the 358 before it) is that it is well used and pretty safe during commute times and can get scary really fast in off peak time periods. I'll ride it into the city for games, concerts and events but I won't ride it after dark.
I will take a more roundabout route to avoid the E. It's either packed to standing room only or sketch as hell.
Had no idea you were from Seattle. You have this chill socal transplant to Vegas vibe. Keep up the great videos, learning so much about infrastructure
Aurora always felt so weird when I lived in Seattle. Like it was just a strip of nasty suburbia.
unfortunately, it is one of the better stroads in the US.
It's always felt bizarre and abandoned to me too when I traveled it. The story from the Urbanist at least tells us how it came to be: Business owners decided renovations bad so the whole strip has been ignored for decades.
@@rishabhanand4973 it’s actually one of the most ugly stop roads I have ever seen (and I live in the USA)
@@bigshotaviation8570 having a bus that runs every 5 minutes on it with a dedicated lane is a major step up compared to other US stroads
@@rishabhanand4973 that’s irrvevelant. I did not see a single bus on that stroud and it looked ugly as hell. I’d say bottom tier even with US standards.
Saw your video on Reddit and wanted to swing by and leave a comment, great video!
There are (long overdue) urbanist plans to fork/extend Philadelphia's broad street (subway) line into the Northeast section of the city along the city's stroadiest stroad, Roosevelt Boulevard. Please bring popcorn to this irresistible force vs. immovable object contest.
Appreciate you covering this topic! I actually live a block away from this road south of your study area. It's heartening to see solutions proposed to this currently crappy road.
Would love to see more videos on stroads in general maybe a video on the ideal way a stroad can be transformed. Thanks for the great content.
Seattle native here. I am old enough to remember Aurora before I-5 was built. 99 was super busy between Everett and Tacoma, but I loved going to Dag's drive in on Aurora on Queen Anne in the 1950's. The motels have a long history of sketchy behaviors (I worked as an EMT in Seattle in the 1980's). The worst intersections are 99 and 196th in Lynnwood and 99 and 320 in Federal Way.
Great video and I appreciate the comments! Thanks for giving us hope for a safer future for reshaping STROADS!
My high school was only a few blocks off of Aurora and I never ever went there since it was impossible to walk to anywhere useful during lunch. I will say that the branch of the public library at 130th avenue is super underrated.
Also the Aurora Bridge feels like a death trap every time I drive over it…
Out of curiosity, how close are those pedestrian overpasses to various schools? I'm wondering if some of them were built to allow kids to cross the highway without interacting with traffic. The two pedestrian overpasses that are out in the county are right next to elementary schools and connect them to large post war subdivisions.
@@HarryLovesRuth there's a high school a couple blocks east of the 130th crossing - nothing too close to the lower crossing but it's around North Seattle College and Cascadia Elementary / Eagle Staff middle school
3:28 - This is so funny. Those Aurora Ave videos have popped up in my feed before. They are enormously popular it seems. All I did was search videos on Seattle!
I used to live smack in the middle of the area. And can guarantee it's 100% true and MORE lol
10:17 There’s a church in Bristol which was badly bombed in the war and subsequently had its graveyard converted into a park. It doesn’t cause the level of consternation that I would have guessed it might but I think it’s been there a while. People also seem to have no issue chilling in a park amidst the few grave stones that are left.
Not sure what my view is on urban cemeteries but the Bristol example is food for thought. The church is called Temple Church.
Graveyards/cemeteries weren't always so separate. I can remember being a little kid and having Easter egg hunts in the cemetery behind my grandparents' tiny Methodist Church. Even in middle school, it wasn't entirely out of bounds for the boys toss a ball around before the Wednesday Youth Service at my parents' non-mega Baptist church.
Somewhere something kinda shifted, though. Maybe its because cemeteries are often privately owned and church activities have become more concentrated in huge "start up" mega churches? IDK, different faith traditions have different relationships with their dead, and cemeteries dedicated to fallen military or those killed in a disaster are due a certain amount of reverence. I'd like an Easter egg hunt at my final repose, though.
@@HarryLovesRuth I've seen historical images from Winona, Minnesota that shows people taking the streetcar across the Mississippi to the only cemetery (and only purpose developed 'green space' in the area at the time) for picnics. If you have developed parks, and if people don't want to have a more rustic experience, cemeteries definitely fit the bill
I wonder why we don't anymore. Maybe it's really just as simple as: we built parks, so now you have the choice
It’s interesting how NJ handles strodes differently than most of the USA. Here they are usually closer to interstates with a center divider, no left turns at all, right hand exists, and overpasses for almost all cross traffic.
If roads don’t have overpasses, and it’s too long of a stretch for pedestrians, they will often put in a pedestrian crossing light that will stop the strode, only for pedestrians to cross. They won’t allow any cross car traffic.
This is a timely subject for me--my mom got hit by a car while crossing a pretty major stroad on Monday. Fortunately only minor (but painful) injuries, but it could have been much, much worse. The almost universal follow up question I got from people when I mentioned this was "Why was she walking down [road]?" This was coming, too, from people who consider themselves good urbanists. People who walk and cycle to work. And yet, the idea of walking between any two points on that road struck them as just silly. That reaction, for me, sums up everything awful about these kinds of places. She works there, and was walking a half mile from the office to pick up lunch. Yes, she could've gotten in her car and driven that half a mile, but can we stop to consider how ridiculous that is? Anyway, there's a car accident there at least once a day, so it's not like your odds are any better if you drive.
These are hostile, dangerous thoroughfares which are bad for the urban environment, unsafe for pedestrians and cyclists, and often for drivers as well. It shouldn't take someone you care about getting hit by a car to realize that.
I've observed through watching these videos and through my own experience that there are a few different types of stroads, and while none are ideal, some are worse than others. The stroad featured in this video was never purposely planned to be the way it is; it has simply grown organically as the area built up around it and uses changed over time. This is common in older suburban areas and outskirts of downtown areas. It seems like every city in the United States of any size that has been around for a long time has at least a few of these. These hideous stroads are often the worst of the bunch, as they typically have few, if any, access controls and often have a lot of businesses fronting right onto the stroad. Newer suburbs tend to have purpose-built stroads that have more access controls and are therefore closer to being proper highways, but they still have access points (sometimes signalized, sometimes not) for strip malls and apartment complexes. These new style stroads aren't pleasant for walking or biking either, but they usually have better sidewalks.
I live along a stroad that, like Aurora, is an old state highway. In this case, the state highway designation has been moved to a divided highway that was built nearby, but the haphazardly created stroad persists. Closer in to town, it is a lot like Aurora, with poor sidewalks and a lot of businesses fronting on the stroad, but farther from the center of town, it becomes more like the newer purpose-built stroads. Whenever I have to make a left turn out of my apartment complex and onto this stroad, at a non-signalized intersection, I feel like I am taking my life into my hands. It is an unpleasant corridor in which to travel regardless of the mode of transportation used. Since it has been replaced by a highway for through traffic, I would hope that it can be improved to make it just a little less unpleasant, but I've seen no sign that this will ever happen. The new highway, unfortunately, has become horribly clogged at certain times of day, so the stroad continues to be used for through traffic.
I'm glad to see that there is some movement to fix one nasty stroad, but there are so many that the situation feels hopeless. Every business that fronts onto the stroad will naturally take an interest in any changes and will oppose anything that has an adverse impact. It isn't like the video game Cities: Skylines, where you can just demolish all the businesses and residential areas along a stroad in order to reconfigure it. There may be better uses for the space than self-storage units and car dealerships, but the owners of those businesses aren't going to see it that way. I think most of these stroads are going to be with us, essentially unchanged, for a very long time.
To expand your differentiation of stroads, i think they cam be classified both on history (old highway, outer "Mainstreet", purpose built) and construction (number of lanes, existance of a shared turning lane, signalization, walkablity).
Obviously the less lanes the better, inclusion of a shared turn lane can be nearly 50% safer than without, and walkablity peaks at a sidewalk about 5ft back and bottoms out at fence against curb.
By combining these 2 sets of criteria you can definitely identify the absolute worst stroads vs the ones with potential to be fixed. (Ironically more lanes means you have more room to work with wich can be a plus, but dealing with the backlash of reducing an "important travel corridor" may not be popular or easy even if its necessary to actually increase capacity and safety.
Great comment. I agree not all stroads are of the "misbegotten state highway" variety -- some are built to be exactly what they are!
I really enjoyed this video! I like the deep focus on a single city/a single road (similar to the LA video). I also liked how you described the ways things are improving, and future plans to change Aurora Avenue. More content like this would be great!
You can't drive in the bus lane because businesses park their vehicles there in off-peak hours. Then, at night, the residential streets near Aurora are used as parking lots by those same businesses.
6:32 wow. 5-10 minute frequency during the off peak times is actually really good.
you touched on it briefly, but once you cross into Shoreline Aurora becomes much safer and more pleasant to travel along. It's not close to what we need, but it's still much much better. That has to be the floor.
Thanks for your coverage of Aurora Ave. I live nearby and welcome the chance for it to become something better than it is. Being outside a car along Aurora is daunting in many ways.
So grew up in vegas, lived in Seattle after that, kow coming up on 15 years in Texas. For the love of God, the number of storage units here is WILD. Rivals the numbers of churches per capita but more for land use I imagine.
Thanks for this. I used to live within two blocks of your video but used Greenwood Ave as my place to shop and transit about 4 blocks west. Now I live about two blocks from Aurora 's cousin, Lake City Way. The LCW now gives mixed signals - stroad-y most spots, semi-street in other patches like 125th. I hope the street patches get larger to cover LCW but it does send mixed signals to cars and for decades.
Re: that aruroa crash study: I did a similar study for TDOT and found similar results for Tennessee's cities (Mostly Nashville and Memphis). There's a small handful of stroads that account for the majority of pedestrian fatalities. (Though, pedestrians can and do die in all sorts of ways and places)
Tennesseein' is Tenne-believing. Kingston Pike in Knoxville is literally Highway 70. The "reduced speed when lights flashing" for the school zone is thirty five and people run that light right in front of the cops
Loading up your car with moonshine and do ninety over Bearden Hill is tradition, I guess.
On urban cemeteries: I love them, but I'm biased. I work in public history, and I live near Crown Hill cemetery in Indianapolis, which I think is the 3rd largest urban cemetery in the US, and it's absolutely beautiful. It provides a wonderful green space for the city in addition to the tremendous history contained in the lives of people buried there (e.g. President Benjamin Harrison, John Dillinger, and poet James Whitcomb Riley among many other interesting people). Urban cemeteries make wonderful arboretums and community green spaces (e.g. Crown Hill does tours about the trees they have on their grounds), and they can make good "shortcuts" for pedestrians and cyclists getting places (not in Indy, but in some places). I think urban cemeteries can be a really good land use that enriches resident's lives, if they're laid out well and kept well.
Cemeteries can be valuable land uses. The Hollywood Forever Cemetery is in a very dense and transit-accessible (subway + rapid bus) part of Los Angeles. While its primary purpose is as a cemetery, it is also home to popular live music events and outdoor film screenings.
As someone who just moved to Seattle and started watching your videos this year, this is awesome! I’m good friends with a guy that works in King County Metro that recommended your videos, so I know he’ll love this.
Thanks for doing this video!
You should look at Mcknight Road north of Pittsburgh, AKA "Mcknightmare". 6 wide lanes, zero sidewalk, very narrow shoulders, parking lots and shopping plazas galore, limited bus service (30 minute frequency if you're lucky, no BRT), many legs of intersections have "no peds" signs, 40 to 50 mph speed limit etc. etc. There is also zero sidewalk (or shoulder for that matter) to any of adjacent roads or housing developments, so its very dangerous to walk anywhere. It would be great to have even some of the amenities in this video.
Sounds like a very stroady stroad.
jfc, no peds? I've only ever seen that entering the freeway. To be fair though, I wouldn't WANT to exist in that space. It's why I'm about as rural as I can get.
I used to live near the area where Aurora passes through Washeli Cemetery, and would commonly walk through the cemetery to access the Interurban on the western side. These days, I still bike the Interurban/Linden greenway to access the city from the northern suburb where I live.
Really liked this video. I know this was mainly a critique but I actually learned a lot. There were lots of things I’ve never thought about. Thank you!
Topic suggestion: Back to school edition. How do cities' school transportation options (walking/biking, bussing, public transit, parents driving) impact traffic/mobility, and vise versa?
I'm shocked every year by how radically traffic changes at the start of the school year.
I live in St. Louis and in a relatively short commute (~3 mi) I pass 3 public elementary schools, 1 private religious grade school, 1 charter and a daycare; so I'm probably an outlier. A portion of that stretch includes a bus route and is slated for a protected bike lane.
St. Louis like a lot of cities has a complex relationship with public v private v charter schools connected to segregation, white flight, displacement etc.
You hit on something with the comment "unchanged since 1962." These stroads are a victim of leapfrog development on one hand, and on the other hand disincentives to upzoning, reuse, and frequent redevelopment.
Planning and zoning fail to hit moving targets. Building codes ironically require a useful life beyond the eco omic life; permitting requires consensus of irreconcilable stakeholders; and pointillist historic preservation precludes continuing evolution of built environment.
Second best point: up-to-date sidewalk infrastructure at the locations with the absolute least foot traffic (storage centers) AAAACK!
I grew up outside of Seattle and Aurora brings up two very specific memories:
1. Running cross country at Woodland Park where it runs between the park and the zoo.
2. Visiting Seattle Fabrics which is on Aurora. If you are in the area it is a great place to get outdoor fabrics.
10:52 I disagree about the over-crossing being useless. There's no way in hell I'd trust that crosswalk.
Just stayed here on my transit tour of USA. Great to see some deep analysis. There was a weekend market on and the redevelopment project was there sharing the proposals, getting resident feedback.
Here in the Atlanta suburbs Gwinnett County Stone Mountain Highway 78 really need a huge upgrade. The only thing good about the highway is it has sidewalks
Here in Pittsburgh we have a tradition of reclaiming urban cemeteries as unofficial public parks. We go for runs in them, have picnics, etc. I've even camped in one!
I'd love to see similar Nerd treatment on 82nd Ave in Portland, especially now that jurisdiction has been shifted to the City.
Exactly what I was thinking the whole time
I'll have to see what the latest is -- there was a bunch of money for 82nd in that Metro bond that failed a couple years ago! The jurisdictional xfer is excellent, and 82nd should be the second FX line (after Division opens next month).
Oh my god your channel is phenomenal
Do you think you can cover Topanga Canyon Stroad in the Los Angeles Dot area? It's such a weird mess depending on where one is.
Ahhh! This is amazing, I have lived right next to that Aurora-85th intersection (on Linden) and it's an absolute nightmare getting to and from I5 along 85th. I never wanted to walk that area because it felt so unsafe. Only had to do it once, but that was enough. Now I live near Aurora around 167th and it's much better up north, especially with the bike trial. Now I'm mostly happy to walk in my area. I'm super on board with giving this area some love, and I'm now hopeful that it may improve in the future. Thank you for teaching me so much about my neighborhood!
I am a Seattle native too. I think a great topic would be the decision process to put Sound Transit LRT along I 5 instead of SR99..
Agree.
IIRC the primary reason for the decision was cost (with speed of construction a close second), they could use the interstate ROW and have easy access to build it. Where as 99 would involve a lot private land negotiation and commercial disruption.
Take a look at the discussion going on about the west seattle LR line for an example.
@@LitchAustin Yes, I heard these reasons, but I am not convinced. The I95 construction includes a lot of elevated structures whereas SR99 could have been cut and cover under public property.
This reminds me of a very long stroad in Kochi, Kerala, India (leading from the airport to the touristy bit on the coast). Just, never-ending, no pedestrian access, and a super weird eclectic mix of car dealerships, big box stores, and jewellery outlets.
Hey, I'd love to see a video on the most successful re-developments in America, where 'stroads' have been replaced by transit and people-oriented traffic planning. Surely there are enough places which have completed a transition by now?
Look at "Woodmen road" in Colorado Springs. Particularly from the intersection with Union boulevard to the intersection with Rangewood boulevard.
re: lack of lines at drive-throughs, another reason is this area has actually good restaurants that serve real food
for real, why would you go to Chick Fil A when you could go to El Camion or anything around the Asian Family Market?
yeah i really like pop pop thai
I didn't wanna be the one to say it
Replace 2 lanes with trams. Replace other 2 lanes with tree alley. Remaining one lane is what remains for cars. Pedestrians get islands to cross safely. Re-zone the area for mid rises, mixed commercial, offices and residential. Build bus lanes 90° to tramline, feeding passengers to it and the lightrail showed here.
imo they should flatten the entire road surface, including the pavement, add a 2-way bike lane on one side of the entire route of the road replacing one road lane and separate it from car traffic with a concrete curb piece on both sides (to also separate the pavement) with a 24/7 bus lane on each side of the road with red coloured asphalt (or use the colour of the most dominate colour of the standard King Country metro or SoundTransit liveries)...
I loved this format. Obviously you have a personal connection to Aurora, but the in-depth history, current state, and future outlook of one corridor, and why it's important and connected to everything around it is so great. And kudos on cranking this out, something with this amount of detail and REPORTING is not easy at all to produce. Keep it up! We love this channel!
Golf courses and cemeteries are a good use of land adjacent to the end of airport runways-- no tall buildings. See Las Vegas Sunset/LV Blvd intersection and the cemetery on Eastern./Patrick.
And flood zones.
Being very familiar with this area, I can confirm this video is spot on. Thanks for highlighting this need for improvement!
Watching from Edmonton Canada. Love your videos.
Please talk about the history of cities from villages to industrial revolution to where we are today. How did the invention of Cars and Fridges change our cities, .... please talk about how cities were chaped by discrimination...
check out his video on s edmt common
@@garyholt8315 is there a link for it?
@@yaroslavkrymov9955 the video is called "what makes power centres bad for cities"
I'm surprised by your comment about that Chick Fil-A at 130th and Aurora. It seems me that it's ALWAYS backed up with traffic trying to get through the drive-thru lane(s); very often the traffic actually spills over onto Aurora itself, causing more problems at the 130th intersection. Whenever I go there I make sure to order online first so I don't have to wait in that stupid line.
Yeah, maybe it was just a weird day? It was a Wednesday right in the noon hour when it should've been busiest and...what I saw was what was in the video! Just one car waiting. Vegas would never.
I rode the bus south of the study area last weekend. I was amazed at the high speeds on the road posted limits were over 50kph
Seems like a lot could be gained by lowering the speed limits. That would improve safety at the cross walks and other pedestrian amenities.
Unfortunately, the speed limit of 45 mph is already a joke. The road supports going much much faster (straight, flat, wide), so people just go 60+mph (100kph).
The only way to slow people down is to make them afraid to go faster, which changing some signs won't do. It would take a full reconstruct, which opens up possibilities for other improvements
They lowered the speed limits. Unfortunately, lots of people speed.
@@ebnertra0004 One lane each direction would it. All it takes is one person going the speed limit and everyone has to follow the law. That is how a lot of Seattle streets got a lot slower.
St. Rose Parkway in Vegas is actually a brand new stroad. It was originally a pure highway with very few stop lights and no business. One redeeming thing with St. Rose - at least it borders a dedicated bike path, so as the area urbanizes, it can help in the non-Summer months.
13:25 I think as simple as developers see bus riders as lower income not able to afford the luxury apartments they want to build while train/trolley riders & cyclists are. You'd think that at least some affordable/subsidized housing places would target Aurora though.
There are plenty of apartments designed for bus riders in Seattle. There are other reasons for the lack of growth.
One is that a lot of owners just aren't interested in selling. There are a lot of light industrial properties that are tough to move. Motels are doing really well in Seattle. I'm not sure why, but car dealerships tend to cling to their location.
Another is that building apartments in Seattle is very difficult from a regulatory standpoint. But partly it is because Aurora just isn't attractive. I would much rather live on Linden, and just walk a couple minutes to the bus. By the way, there are subsidized apartments on Linden.
It is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Aurora is ugly -- people don't want to live there. It is ugly in part because there aren't many apartments. The project mentioned in this video hopes to break that cycle.
Your content is getting way better. This video is awesome.
I would love to see something about the impact of a stroad on an area's retail landscape. I just moved to Northgate and I've had to interact with Aurora on my bike way more often than I would like. Need to drop off a UPS package? Gotta go to Aurora. Get my cat's prescription cat food? PetSmart on Aurora. Closest Asian market that has those aloe drinks I like? Aurora. Hardware? Unless I want to venture to the U District or Ballard, the Home Depot on Aurora is really my only option.
I hear you in general, but the Ace hardware on Maple Leaf is excellent and just up the hill from Northgate. A bit steep for a bike, but not a bad walk (depending on where you are in Northgate). The 67 bus will get there as well.
If you want a change in stroad, take Northgate to SODO. 5 blocks west is the Lander St Home Depot.