You have been choosing the wrong foil to get better at Downwinding - Two Pump Chumps episode 1
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 лют 2024
- Josh and Patrick @foilwithmefoil90 the Foil Shop discuss their recent downwind run and some differences in gear, especially the obsession with new Ultra high aspect foils. It seems everybody thinks these new foils are going to make them better. Which foil should you choose when SUP downwinding?
This is a good dicussion. Stuff that I've been thinking about since the 8-10 knot wind Sydney downwind race. There is a lot of nuance to be had though. Totally agree that a foil that you can reliably get up quickly is the most important in terms of racing or beating your buddies. A 10 or 15 second per km advantage from foil choice can quickly be lost by not getting up immediately after falling. For example the sydney race - If I'd used the 1401 Art Pro I would've easily been top 10. It's a slow foil but it pumps for days and I can paddle it up in anything. But I also have experienced what Josh said about how much easier DWding can become on high AR foils. It becomes pretty effortless and you're presented with a whole new way of DWding. I will say that it's a jekyll and hyde for me also - my disaster runs of late have been on the smaller faster foil. But I'm taking that as a sign that I'm challenging myself and growing. And it's nice to have the option to go back to the 'safety' foil for a while. Being a consistent foiler on fast wings is actually the key. Any foil you can't consistently perform on is not the right choice for a race but on you're local runs it's a great time to push yourself. In big conditions big foils can be horrendous to ride and you Pump ALOT, whereas the right foil can make it so easy and fast. The crashes do hurt more - that's for sure :) Also, sound quality is top notch on this :) hahaha
Best comment ever. Thanks Dave 🙏 you explained both sides perfectly. I couldn’t agree with you more.
I agree, stay on a Foil you know. That's more important than high aspect. I did ride the 770R code in Hawaii and it was insanely fast, but much harder to control.
I'm excited to try the 770R at some point. I haven't ridden it yet. Excited to see what it could be best suited for. What are your thoughts?
Important discussion about foil reality.
Unifoil progression foils are great because they are so stable at speed and they do really well when they are pushed beyond their top speed - 200 and 170 are fantastic for DW - especially because it's very common to have changing/ different conditions within the same run...
The 200 is the foil I get up on the most consistently. I'm excited to see how the Code 1300 compares. But you're right. The 200 and 170 Progression are great foils.
How dare you. I love my 755 DWP Water Zebra 😂
The Armstrong DWP has insanely low stall speed. I’ve seen videos of people dockstarting the smallest DWP wing 😮
I can do 20 mph max on the DWP930. It's not as slow as people say.
👍🍺
I’d like to see more reference to Aspect Ratios.
So wait?! James Casey has been right the whole time? Ride the big foil that allows you to paddle up?! Pull off and reconnect instead of constantly trying to race forward?!
It's like he knows what he's doing or something.
You guys should try the Codefoils 860R, if you are comfortable on unifoil 170, 860R is not too far on the low end (maybe same actually) and way better on top speed. But important it makes you glide effortless with control.
I will do this very soon. Our conditions aren't the best, and I need to make sure I get on foil first. HA! but once I've got that part dialed, and I know the runs are going to be good, the 860 is going to be a foil I like to use. Just gotta get my skills up there first.
@@thefoilshop6371 it is easier than you think, try with the 175 to make sure it is even easier.
I did that switch and couldn't agree more
Josh curious your experience of the 860r vs 980 vs 1300?
Me thinks I would like to trade the 860 for a 1300…
Let me ride the 1300 and I’ll let you know. I think I’m gonna need the 1300 for a bit and then upgrade to the 860 after a while. But you’re welcome to demo mine if you want. Hit me up
Is k2/afs next? I’m very curious to hear about that.
What conditions should we test it in?
I’m on takuma partially because I find the need for bigger sizes in our light winds and small waves. But as I get better I’m liking the smaller ones for powered winging. Zeroing in on 1250/950 as my core quiver. But maybe 1100 vs 1050 winging and prone in 2-3’? With cedrus-takuma portion?
I saw a youtube video about English foilers ride wing boards with older fat slow foils and had no problem with their conditions. Not racing just DW'ing.
Yeah, guys were DWing the old gofoil wings. It’s possible. Just a matter of is it fun/easy.
What I took away from this is, you need a bunch of different foils, for different conditions, for different preferences, for different circumstances.
Yep. They said don't buy the new fast foil. Then they said, if you love foiling just buy them all. 😂
I get what you guys are saying, but it’s important to have a HA foil. We should use numbers I think. To me below 8 ish can be very difficult to pump efficiently. I think a foil that can surf and pump efficiently and has some glide can work well. I’ve had so much failure in this department. Having said that aspect ratio doesn’t explain it all because the foil camber section is really being tweaked well. Demo is really important and you guys do that and that’s how you know what works for you. 👍
You're right! I think we're talking about high aspect foils that are above 13, and we're referring to foils with an aspect ratio of 8-9 as mid aspect. Is that how you view it too?
I'm checking out down winding this coming season in the Columbia gorge. Im liking the spitfire 1180 to explore short dw'rs by wing and maybe find a used sup board during the season. It has an AR of 9. You guys like that idea?
Not a fan of the spitfire foils. Tried a couple different sizes and they all felt awful. My personal take on them though. I know some people like them
I bet if you threw a front foot strap on the downwind board you could drop in on those big swells over-foiled and get even more range out of a thicker foil. Anyone downwinding with a front footstrap?
Not all the boards have a strap. Could be cool. But most guys like to move their feet.
@@thefoilshop6371One of the DWers I know runs an extra long foot strap to allow for some movement but also gets the benefits of the footstrap. It is a trade-off but apparently quite nice for a few aspects of downwinding including the paddle up, so I am told.
Just a small detail. I have heard it often. 1 cm=10mm. 800 centimeter mast is 8 meter! I know most americans dont care, but make sure you use centimeters and milimeters correctly. Or stick with inches.
Clearly that was just misspeaking. It’s obviously a 800mm mast. Uni usually measures in cm. But the progression mast is called the 800
Thanks for your comment though. Super helpful to everyone…
8 meter mast for the win! 🔥
Big opinions here , I think California is not a great indicator for conditions all over the world , I don’t agree with your opinion at all but respectfully once you go a high aspect downwind specific foil you will never go back . The whole activity becomes easier , in aussie everyone is converting and becoming way more successful
Josh I think they are really talking about staying with something that is more user friendly than jumping to the newest HA foil just because it’s available. I continue to ride my Code Foil 1130S when conditions aren’t very clean or consistent. But the moment it cleans up a bit, I’m all over my 860R!
Agreed. I’m not saying the new R series isn’t gonna be the preferred foil EVENTUALLY for everyone that can DW. Just when people are learning, they need low end that isn’t there on those ultra high aspect foils. Would you say we should learn on the 860 as opposed to the 1300?
surely this depends on the local conditions? I would hazard that for most of us, the conditions are relatively bad, and bad conditions are better on an easier foil? That was the general consensus with winging and the original ART, which worked amazingly well in perfect conditions and were terrible in anything but that.
Unless the new 13AR downwind foils change that somehow? In terrible conditions do the average riders still manage the race foils?