Good stuff, Paul. Thank you for attempting to get this concept straight. The myths/misunderstanding needs debunking/clarification, over and over and over .....
Paul , yes you are correct , i nearly gave up on fly fishing because i could not find the right line for my rods , WRONG, i spent a lot of money on lines , it is a confusing night mare and i think most fly shops do not really understand what it all means. So i bought three different WFF lines and using different weight leaders , i experimented , it nearly drove me nuts , very frustrating let me tell you. Especially when the lines are not as stated , and different makes of the same weight are too. I have a box full upstairs EYES ROLL . All my rods are older and have as you say three suggested line weights , but as i tend to use large flies the heavier weight seems to cast better. As you say it should be match your line to a rod. Watching your vids has given me hope and i understand much more now , pity you live out in the jungle and i in Britain , would have loved to meet you and have a chat. You have certainly improved my casting , soz to go on , all the best , David.
Cheers David. It is crazy. I’ve been watching the situation get progressively worse over the past 40 years. It’s actually very difficult to buy the lines I want and some are impossible. I must be about one of five people in the world who still fish double tapers 😆 I do get back to Britain sometimes!!
Genius way of presenting the idea. I agree 100%. Sling the line out there in a straight line path. The load will happen automatically. Never think about it. Cheers
This is great info. I had always thought the goal was to load the rod above all. I knew about late power delivery (no power midnight) but could never get it to work with trying to load the rod. Even my double haul technique was based around loading the rod too early. It all makes sense explained this way thanks so much for putting this out there. I would love to do some casting lessons with someone like you, ever come to Canada haha?
@@AdrianVisser-lj4pp thanks Adrian. Yes it is interesting how this belief has built up and how difficult it is to change. I used to spend my summers in Canada, mostly BC/Alberta border. But now I’m in the jungle 😆 I do coach via Zoom but keep it low key! Eastern time zone is a bit crazy.
@SexyloopsTV You're living the dream, I'm in the BC interior myself. Hoping to break my 80' casting wall this year with help from your videos. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and would love to hit you up for some of those Zoom lessons some time in the future if you're willing. Cheers!
@@AdrianVisser-lj4pp nice part of the world!! Sure drop me an email on paul@sexyloops.com sometime and I can give you details of what I do. I’m 16hrs ahead over here which makes things quite easy to arrange. 😎
Agree with you on line weights Paul. I’ve underlined my lighter rods for a few years now and in the last year or so have moved to double tapers/longer heads when I can find them. Have to spend ages on the respective web sites to find all the info.
Paul love your videos, they make a lot of sense. What line and rods will accomplish this? Is there a list of the combinations anywhere. I have tried over a dozen rods and lines and with only some success with loading and shooting, then presentation is another issue. Glass or carbon? Crazy my wife seemed to figured it out for her, she lets the fly drop in the water on her back cast then on her forward cast the fly and line in the water loads her rod and the fly loops to where she wants it, crazy but works for her. Is there a math equation weight of fly plus line verse the length of the rod or material it is made of? Or is it just like another gentleman said use lead weight on different lines to see what works? Help us out, what rod and line are you using? Complex indeed!
Lots of questions there and thanks! That cast from the water on the backcast is called a Tension Cast. I first came across guides in NZ using it to get non fly fishers into fish in half a day of guiding. The problem can be trajectories. It is possible to measure rod stiffness (and frequency) and come up with a chart that estimates line number fit. But of course a rod will cast many line weights; and many line lengths. I did make a video on rod testing years ago where I really tried to make the point that a rod is designed for casting variable distances and lengths. In the video I’m using the Sexyloops HT8 and a SA Bonefish 8. I’ll post some links! Cheers!
@10:40, I think you might have said this backwards- If olden rods were advertised to cast three line weights, wouldn’t the lowest (i.e., lightest) line number be a shooting head and the heaviest line number be the DT line? A shooting head would tend to bend the rod easier than a DT line. What am I missing?
Hi, the difference is line carry/weight. Typically a shooting head might be 30’, a WF 40-50’ and a DT can be more. So for the same mass outside the rod tip, shooting heads are typically 1-2 line weighs heavier than AFFTA/AFTM. it’s more complex however because the longer the aerielised length the less it’s perfectly straight. But anyway that’s the principle; shorter carry, heavier line, at least for distance.
Hey Paul, ive been watching some of your older videos and just been wondering about a few things. ua-cam.com/video/k07YNGDbwAI/v-deo.html If you go to around 6:05 and watch the slow-mo in the video. I can see your line hand go back to meet the rod hand while your rod hand is going forward. Does that not shorten the stroke and increase the chances of a tailing loop? Im really curious to know why it doesnt shock the rod. I love your videos mate. Please keep them coming :)
Good question!! This is Slide. The Snakehead Shot ua-cam.com/video/yWA-AjVHWiY/v-deo.html Trying to slip as much line into the backcast as possible. This question really merits a longer answer than the UA-cam box allows 😆 If you want to ask this question on the Sexyloops Board I’ll give it the half hour’s reply it deserves!
Great video Paul. So we can figure out our lines true AFTMA rating by weighing the first 30’. How should we go about figuring out what rod weight we truly have?
@@SexyloopsTV Thanks I look forward to it. Interesting about the Rio lines being overweighted. I recently won a 7 weight rod and it casts my 6 weight Rio lines so nicely. I had trouble with tailing loops when I went for max distance when I had it them on my existing 6 weight rod. Manufacturers overweighting lines is a huge piss off for me, I want to be able to decide to over line, match weight or underline rather than have the manufacturer make the assumption that I want to over line everything. Phil
@@OnTheFlyNZ Hi Phil, well at least RÍO do put the info on their website. They are not all 1 weight over. Some are 3/4 up. Some are 2 or more line weights up. In general many of their SW lines are 1 up. It’s extraordinary. But they are not alone. SA actually make a point with true to weight lines as being true to weight, because they are an exception. It really is crazy.
That’s an interesting topic, Matt. I don’t like either extremes in my rods and it’s really about how bend progression occurs under dynamic loading. Make the rod too tippy/butt stiff and I lose feeling and accuracy at longer targets. Make the tip stiff and the butt too soft and at distance it can be difficult to avoid tails. Damping can also come into this equation. Basically I’d stay away from the extremes. In Double Handed casting sport, for Spey casting they prefer softer butt/stiffer tip and for overhead stiffer butt/softer tip. But when I’m fishing a single handed rod I don’t want to swap rods between roll casts and overhead casts 😆 I’ll ask a few people their thoughts too because it’s an interesting question. Thanks.
Hello into the jungle 😊, "It's a late power application." If that would be correct, how do you avoid applying power in the first part of the stroke (which I think is impossible)? I am sure we apply power all the time (all along the stroke). What you can vary, is the level of power you apply during the rod hand path as well as the type of rod movement you apply the power for. Cheers Bernd
@@SexyloopsTVI thought your answer would have been- during the drift (or drag, whatever you want to call it) portion of the stroke you’re moving the line through the air, the slingshot action (loop creation and unfolding) is generated by the rotation of the butt, at the end of the stroke.
@@cachi-7878it’s gets very technical very fast. It’s a very good topic but I don’t think UA-cam is a good place or medium. I’ve been discussing these things with Bernd for 20’years and Im not about to embark again in a small UA-cam box 😆 But I agree with you. We overcome the line’s inertia, while positioning the rod and then we accelerate it.
usually love your vids... but it's very difficult to effectively move the line and sling it out there without loading the rod somewhat... so many other variables to be sure, spot on about it's all about the size of the fly. Rods USED to be designed about 30 feet of line. 70 feet is not that long, absolutely true. Over 40-some years of fly fishing, I've found loop control to be the answer to headwinds..... and honestly it's only been in the last year or so that I learned to control it.
Hi Joel, it’s correct that the rod loads but anglers who cast with the direct intention of loading the rod often apply too much force too early, shifting their attention to feeling the line and getting it moving it, can create a far better stroke and loops. Rods were never designed around 30’ of line, but they were designed around AFTM compliant lines. It was so much simpler 40 years ago when lines actually followed the AFTM system! The first noticeable departure for me was when Airflo started producing lines in the mid 80s. These lines were significantly overweight. Prior to this you had a pretty good idea of what you were getting. Those first lines were awful by the way 😆 Cheers! Paul
Good stuff, Paul. Thank you for attempting to get this concept straight. The myths/misunderstanding needs debunking/clarification, over and over and over .....
Love the fade to black. Interesting talk
What an excellent classroom. Theory and execution in the same frame.
Thanks Paul.
Paul , yes you are correct , i nearly gave up on fly fishing because i could not find the right line for my rods , WRONG, i spent a lot of money on lines , it is a confusing night mare and i think most fly shops do not really understand what it all means. So i bought three different WFF lines and using different weight leaders , i experimented , it nearly drove me nuts , very frustrating let me tell you. Especially when the lines are not as stated , and different makes of the same weight are too. I have a box full upstairs EYES ROLL . All my rods are older and have as you say three suggested line weights , but as i tend to use large flies the heavier weight seems to cast better. As you say it should be match your line to a rod. Watching your vids has given me hope and i understand much more now , pity you live out in the jungle and i in Britain , would have loved to meet you and have a chat. You have certainly improved my casting , soz to go on , all the best , David.
Cheers David. It is crazy. I’ve been watching the situation get progressively worse over the past 40 years. It’s actually very difficult to buy the lines I want and some are impossible. I must be about one of five people in the world who still fish double tapers 😆
I do get back to Britain sometimes!!
Genius way of presenting the idea. I agree 100%. Sling the line out there in a straight line path. The load will happen automatically. Never think about it.
Cheers
Bang on!! The only good thing about thinking about loading the rod, is when you unlearn it you can cast further with less effort! 😎
This is great info. I had always thought the goal was to load the rod above all. I knew about late power delivery (no power midnight) but could never get it to work with trying to load the rod. Even my double haul technique was based around loading the rod too early. It all makes sense explained this way thanks so much for putting this out there. I would love to do some casting lessons with someone like you, ever come to Canada haha?
@@AdrianVisser-lj4pp thanks Adrian. Yes it is interesting how this belief has built up and how difficult it is to change.
I used to spend my summers in Canada, mostly BC/Alberta border. But now I’m in the jungle 😆 I do coach via Zoom but keep it low key! Eastern time zone is a bit crazy.
@SexyloopsTV You're living the dream, I'm in the BC interior myself. Hoping to break my 80' casting wall this year with help from your videos. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and would love to hit you up for some of those Zoom lessons some time in the future if you're willing. Cheers!
@@AdrianVisser-lj4pp nice part of the world!! Sure drop me an email on paul@sexyloops.com sometime and I can give you details of what I do. I’m 16hrs ahead over here which makes things quite easy to arrange. 😎
I have owned a #2 sage light line for 30 years, didnt use it much, but now I figured out to cast it as intended. The wait was worth it..😂
@@tomdemianvingsgard4532 😆😆
Agree with you on line weights Paul. I’ve underlined my lighter rods for a few years now and in the last year or so have moved to double tapers/longer heads when I can find them. Have to spend ages on the respective web sites to find all the info.
Paul love your videos, they make a lot of sense. What line and rods will accomplish this? Is there a list of the combinations anywhere. I have tried over a dozen rods and lines and with only some success with loading and shooting, then presentation is another issue. Glass or carbon? Crazy my wife seemed to figured it out for her, she lets the fly drop in the water on her back cast then on her forward cast the fly and line in the water loads her rod and the fly loops to where she wants it, crazy but works for her. Is there a math equation weight of fly plus line verse the length of the rod or material it is made of? Or is it just like another gentleman said use lead weight on different lines to see what works? Help us out, what rod and line are you using? Complex indeed!
Lots of questions there and thanks! That cast from the water on the backcast is called a Tension Cast. I first came across guides in NZ using it to get non fly fishers into fish in half a day of guiding. The problem can be trajectories. It is possible to measure rod stiffness (and frequency) and come up with a chart that estimates line number fit. But of course a rod will cast many line weights; and many line lengths. I did make a video on rod testing years ago where I really tried to make the point that a rod is designed for casting variable distances and lengths. In the video I’m using the Sexyloops HT8 and a SA Bonefish 8. I’ll post some links! Cheers!
An old page on rod testing www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/how-to-test-drive-a-fly-rod
HT8 www.sexyloops.com/index.php/webshop/item/537/ht-pro-9ft-8wt
Great video….what a nutter you are! Just love them keep them coming. Your fishing prize sounds very interesting….mmmmmm.😎😎
@10:40, I think you might have said this backwards-
If olden rods were advertised to cast three line weights, wouldn’t the lowest (i.e., lightest) line number be a shooting head and the heaviest line number be the DT line? A shooting head would tend to bend the rod easier than a DT line. What am I missing?
Hi, the difference is line carry/weight. Typically a shooting head might be 30’, a WF 40-50’ and a DT can be more. So for the same mass outside the rod tip, shooting heads are typically 1-2 line weighs heavier than AFFTA/AFTM. it’s more complex however because the longer the aerielised length the less it’s perfectly straight. But anyway that’s the principle; shorter carry, heavier line, at least for distance.
Hey Paul, ive been watching some of your older videos and just been wondering about a few things. ua-cam.com/video/k07YNGDbwAI/v-deo.html If you go to around 6:05 and watch the slow-mo in the video. I can see your line hand go back to meet the rod hand while your rod hand is going forward. Does that not shorten the stroke and increase the chances of a tailing loop? Im really curious to know why it doesnt shock the rod. I love your videos mate. Please keep them coming :)
Good question!! This is Slide. The Snakehead Shot
ua-cam.com/video/yWA-AjVHWiY/v-deo.html Trying to slip as much line into the backcast as possible. This question really merits a longer answer than the UA-cam box allows 😆 If you want to ask this question on the Sexyloops Board I’ll give it the half hour’s reply it deserves!
@@SexyloopsTV Ive tried mutliple times to create an account on the site in the past and now aswell and no luck. For some reason it wont let me :/
@ you need to email me paul@sexyloops.com 😎
@@SexyloopsTV Im still having troubles unfortunately :/
@@bfmv7nor I have to add you manually. It’s to stop people selling shoes, worms or women 😆
Great video Paul. So we can figure out our lines true AFTMA rating by weighing the first 30’. How should we go about figuring out what rod weight we truly have?
That’s a really excellent question. I’ll make a video on that. 👍
@@SexyloopsTV Thanks I look forward to it. Interesting about the Rio lines being overweighted. I recently won a 7 weight rod and it casts my 6 weight Rio lines so nicely. I had trouble with tailing loops when I went for max distance when I had it them on my existing 6 weight rod. Manufacturers overweighting lines is a huge piss off for me, I want to be able to decide to over line, match weight or underline rather than have the manufacturer make the assumption that I want to over line everything.
Phil
@@OnTheFlyNZ Hi Phil, well at least RÍO do put the info on their website. They are not all 1 weight over. Some are 3/4 up. Some are 2 or more line weights up. In general many of their SW lines are 1 up. It’s extraordinary. But they are not alone. SA actually make a point with true to weight lines as being true to weight, because they are an exception. It really is crazy.
Great discussion, now do stiff tip soft butt vs soft tip stiff butt actions re casting stroke and control please.
That’s an interesting topic, Matt. I don’t like either extremes in my rods and it’s really about how bend progression occurs under dynamic loading. Make the rod too tippy/butt stiff and I lose feeling and accuracy at longer targets. Make the tip stiff and the butt too soft and at distance it can be difficult to avoid tails. Damping can also come into this equation. Basically I’d stay away from the extremes.
In Double Handed casting sport, for Spey casting they prefer softer butt/stiffer tip and for overhead stiffer butt/softer tip. But when I’m fishing a single handed rod I don’t want to swap rods between roll casts and overhead casts 😆 I’ll ask a few people their thoughts too because it’s an interesting question. Thanks.
Wisdom 👌
Hello into the jungle 😊,
"It's a late power application."
If that would be correct, how do you avoid applying power in the first part of the stroke (which I think is impossible)?
I am sure we apply power all the time (all along the stroke).
What you can vary, is the level of power you apply during the rod hand path as well as the type of rod movement you apply the power for.
Cheers
Bernd
It’s certainly difficult to move without applying some force Bernd!
@@SexyloopsTVI thought your answer would have been- during the drift (or drag, whatever you want to call it) portion of the stroke you’re moving the line through the air, the slingshot action (loop creation and unfolding) is generated by the rotation of the butt, at the end of the stroke.
@@cachi-7878it’s gets very technical very fast. It’s a very good topic but I don’t think UA-cam is a good place or medium. I’ve been discussing these things with Bernd for 20’years and Im not about to embark again in a small UA-cam box 😆 But I agree with you. We overcome the line’s inertia, while positioning the rod and then we accelerate it.
usually love your vids... but it's very difficult to effectively move the line and sling it out there without loading the rod somewhat... so many other variables to be sure, spot on about it's all about the size of the fly. Rods USED to be designed about 30 feet of line. 70 feet is not that long, absolutely true. Over 40-some years of fly fishing, I've found loop control to be the answer to headwinds..... and honestly it's only been in the last year or so that I learned to control it.
Hi Joel, it’s correct that the rod loads but anglers who cast with the direct intention of loading the rod often apply too much force too early, shifting their attention to feeling the line and getting it moving it, can create a far better stroke and loops.
Rods were never designed around 30’ of line, but they were designed around AFTM compliant lines. It was so much simpler 40 years ago when lines actually followed the AFTM system! The first noticeable departure for me was when Airflo started producing lines in the mid 80s. These lines were significantly overweight. Prior to this you had a pretty good idea of what you were getting. Those first lines were awful by the way 😆 Cheers! Paul