Nissan Leaf | Fully Charged
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- A first drive in the soon to be released Nissan Leaf.
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Fully Charged is an online show hosted by Robert Llewellyn (Red Dwarf, Scrapheap Challenge, Carpool), which looks at why we need to change how we think about energy consumption now. From looking behind the myths of renewable energy, to seeking the truth about electric cars, Robert Llewellyn demonstrates what the future could have in store for us all.
12 years later I'm here as the owner of a 4 year old Leaf (30kwhr).
I have to thank Robert for his decade of Leaf ownership videos. They convinced me to buy one, and I extremely glad I did.
Petrol is basically £10 a gallon "in old money" and my Leaf is basically £0.01p a gallon (well I charge it from my solar panels).
Relaxing, refined, and free motoring. Cheers Robert.
@davidhalifax two points. I don't quite understand 'Seems more expensive having to charge the Leaf daily due to the limited range' because it costs about £1.60 to charge, so if you charge it every day for a year and drove it till flat every day, 100 miles, you'd drive 36,500 miles and it would cost £584. If you drive 36,500 miles in a petrol/diesel car, it will cost around £6,000. Basically about £5,500 a year cheaper. Also UK national grid is only 30% coal, and and getting cleaner every year
I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. I sent them my $99 months ago.
The 8-Bit Guy didn't expect to see you here!
...and did you enjoy your Leaf?
@pcdeflopes I think it is important for me to point out that I shot and edited this video, which means it was all fairly amateurish, and done with very limited time. The two shots of the dash where shot at the same time. I had no intention to deceive and if I had thought about it, you are correct, I shouldn't have used that shot twice. It never occurred to me that it could be misinterpreted.
I apologize and will attempt to do better.
Thank you Nissan, for making this. You've brought back the electric car.
@llandudnoboy I have to call you out on this. I have driven an electric car (called a Think) in Sweden 2 winters back. It was -35c, the battery was affected, the range was reduced by 20%. Not 80% as you are claiming with such wild, uninformed determination. On a very cold morning like this morning (I live in Cotswolds) it said -5 and the battery range told me 88 miles when fully charged. In summer it would read 100+. saying '30 miles range' sinks your argument.
@HogsOfWarVideos Brilliant question and good point. Simple answer, at the moment, I don't know. I have, however, shot an enormous amount of material which is not yet edited (going through very busy period) I'm about to interview some people who really know such things, and eventually, it will find its way here. Thanks for watching
@DingoBabyEat One of the most rapidly expanding bits of infrastructure are kerbside re-charging posts. In London there are already plans for 12,000 of them. I've used some in Coventry, it's just a post with a plug on it (okay, they are a little more sophisticated than that)
There are already wires underground (if there are street lights) and there's also amazing leaps being made with induction charging, i.e. no wires, you park over a plate set in the ground and the car charges while it's parked
I must have missed the 'batteries are really environmental' PR campaign. Materials that make modern technology, like the computer you used to comment here, all require extraction and refining. We are getting better at re-using those materials, particularly batteries. Most importantly they are not 'disposed of' that would be insane, they are used again and again. 96% of the Nissan Leaf battery is used again to make new batteries
@sonbuhitsunei That said it sounds like this car is not for you. Have you looked at the GM Volt? Also the Volvo range of plug in hybrid diesels with 170 mpg possible, coming out 2012. All reviewed here on Fully Charged. Just sayin' :-)
@eddu32 You are not wrong, but you are not quite right. We have driven 6,700 miles in our electric car since November. Our electricity bill has gone up by £70. That works out at just over 1 penny per mile. This is partly due to the hugely greater efficiencies in generating, transporting and using electricity over drilling, shipping, refining, transporting and then burning fossil fuel inside an internal combustion engine. Pit to wheel verses well to wheel only fair comparison
@TBman256 I agree, I wish I'd had the chance to record some stuff where I talk to the camera, but unfortunately it wasn't possible when I made this
6:15, close to 90% recyclable, yet Energizer can't make a AA with more than 2 or 3% of recycled content. Try harder Energizer (and Duracell).
+danwat1234 Energizer can't make a AA with more than 2 or 3% of recycled content
+danwat1234 It costs more to recycle batteries than make new ones i bet. but considering how many energizer batteries are used thats a huge environmental impact
@llandudnoboy I totally agree, except the clattering old Golf has 500+ moving parts that need to be warmed up and fuel consumption goes off the scale for 1st 25 miles. It's pumping out SOX and NOX emissions like it's going out of style (which it is) and is noisy, dirty and incredibly inefficient. The rapid advances in battery technology and the rapidly depleting oil supplies and massively increased demand mean the argument is pointless. Sorry, the good old diesel is a rattle, clanking dinosaur
@llandudnoboy Ahh yes, I have heard this argument many many times. It is, of course, based on zero knowledge or experience. I have now been driving a Nissan Leaf for 9 months, done nearly 11,000 miles in it. It doesn't cough out foul smelling toxic fumes like a diesel Golf, true it doesn't go as far on one charge, the range is reduced in cold weather, the heater does make a difference but not THAT much. I've done 104 miles in summer, most you could do now, 80. Plenty for 90% of journeys I do.
@JSeely218 Still early days but Nissan are confident 100,000 + miles no problem, they are developing a battery refurb system, after 100,000 miles they re-build your existing battery, 96% of materials are re-cycled. This is a key part of whole tech.
@nick945 I don't think I'm saving money and that's not why I am interested in this technology. I like how you have this certain knowledge that the batteries will need replacing, you must be psychic, no one else knows this with such certainty. For a start Nissan have already proven they can refurbish batteries back to 100% at a fraction of the cost, using 95% of the materials again. Where did you get the 'lithium based does more damage than a petrol car' idea.. oh yes, Top Gear, very reliable.
@llandudnoboy Just returning to this discussion and I think it's very important to point out that this episode was recorded long before the Nissan Leaf was released in the UK. I was lucky enough to drive one of the first ones in the country, I didn't mention how much it cost because of some middle class conspiracy theory, I didn't mention it because no one knew then. If you check out further episodes of Fully Charged I do discuss the costs etc.
Look up the website for the Leaf. It's confusing but the leases are optioned between 12 and 36 months. The £70/month is for 36 months with 7500 miles per annum. If the driver wants, they can extend the lease to 72 months. The maximum distance limit can be 15,000 miles per annum. The most expensive lease of the battery is a 12 month lease of 15,000 miles for £129/month.
You make this car sound both really normal and quite advanced at once. I've already started consulting with a solar electric installer to get panels on my garage roof to help offset a portion of my driving. If I'm grid tied I can still add more power later. Several friend in Illinois offset 100% of their driving and have power left over.
Tomorrow picking up the new Leaf. Lovely to see where it began.
@MIT2004 Government statistics show that the average journey distance in the UK is 29 miles. At any one moment, 92% of the worlds cars are not operating. Yes, 92%, sitting doing nothing. They could of course be re-charging. Just saying.
@j101saar To start, the torque is very controllable, foot hard down, masses of torque, high energy use, shorter range. Gentle acceleration, much less energy use. If you travelled at around 65 mph, you'd easily get 100 miles, maybe more. Fast charger, 25 mins, would only give you around 80 miles range if battery close to flat. You could certainly do it, but it would take longer. Catch a train?
@nick945 That is why they offer a lease program for the battery only. Also, you don't have to buy the quick charger, It comes with a wall charger.
Ignoring the crazy price tag for a moment as that is obviously the price of being an early adopter, I think we've just seen the future of motoring.
I like the sound of the engine!
@llandudnoboy The most efficient internal combustion engine is at very best around 25% efficient. That means every quid you put in the tank, 75p is wasted through heat, friction, catalytic converters, etc etc. At worst, an electric motor is about 80% efficient, so only 20p of every £1 you put in the battery is wasted.
@WestLABoy
I dunno about 300,000 miles but the original Rav 4EVs are still getting 70-80% of their original range after 13 years of use.
I will probably buy this car. I kjust signed up to Nissans list online.
The only thing which I'm interested in is... how much (in pounds sterling) will it cost me to charge this car from empty? BOTH for the 8 hour long charge and also the 28 minute 'quick charge'?
@charlesischuck Okay, I truly don't know what "electric cars are efficient because they make it lighter making them more dangerous to drive" means electric cars are generally heavier than fossil burners, so using this weird, twisted logic, electric cars are safer.
@baldhippyrecords Massive UN report out this week suggesting that biofuel is wreaking havoc on world food prices. I would maintain that burning stuff, no matter where it comes from, is not a good idea.
As a MINI E driver, I am totally sold on EV's. Patiently waiting on reserve list for my Leaf. Thanks very much for the show. Does is have a J1772 plug, the upcoming standard, at least in the USA. Thanks for your good work
@bonds911
The Volt is not really a "hybrid" in the conventional sense. The ICE isn't connected to and does not supply power to the drivetrain. It's actually used as a generator for the electric motor.
Brilliant Video - (not as amateurish as you mentioned above, it's overall very professional).
Very substantive review of the Nissan Leaf. You covered a lot of aspects, particularly how well it handles practically in the real world which was very useful.
There are several concepts out there, but this is a car I am looking forward to seeing the most. Thanks for the video!
@llandudnoboy Over 100,000 miles the Bluemotion will cost you around £8,200, and I'm being generous and using the claimed 80mpg to calculate. In real life the average milage, especially in winter, is more likely 60 mpg tops. the Leaf will cost under £1,000 and with solar panels more like £700. The batteries are 95% recyclable, so all the Top Gear sponsored rubbish about batteries is just that, rubbish
I think the focus for electric motor maintenance should be "user serviceable parts". i.e. my mum (recently retired) can quite happily change the brushes for the motor in her washing machine, is the technology so different?
Nice series. I feel its lacking technical details though. The engine wasn't even mentioned in any of the episodes. I checked it out and it seems that so far all cars use AC motors. But I read that the brushless DC motors are more efficient, so why none of the cars use it?
@vonnikon You're basically correct if you're talking about Brushed Series DC motors and AC motors. Series DC use brushes and commutators, which are inefficient and wear out over time, and regen is basically impossible to implement. I think the comparison is really between Brushless DC motors, BLDC, and AC motors. BLDC motors have regen built in, as do AC motors.
I am waiting for testing Nissan Leaf. Looks good and hope to find it OK.
all these years later i have now bought a 2014 leaf making it ten years old. the purpose is to do all my commuting instead of my vw transporter. ok the battery depletion range around the 70 mile mark. even a 60 mile it will do all my commuting easily. now how does it drive. well that has exceeded my expectation smooth and comfy. there is more than adequate power keeping it in eco mode makes things easier. costs with home charging done overnight so cheap 24 kw @ nine pence per kwh. servicing well thats about the same as my electric bike which fits in the boot. and if i do need to go more miles well i have my vw camper van.
@charlesischuck Oh wait, you see I read your comments giving you the benefit of the assumption that you have a vague clue about what you are saying, then I read " combustion engines get 400 mpg" and I know you don't have a clue. What engine? When? Where? Made by who?
@llandudnoboy I can barely be bothered to keep replying but that is arrant nonsense. I spent a long time with engineers from Honda who were proudly boasting that their incredibly well engineered petrol engine was 'up to' 28% efficient, super lean burn, hyper economical. I asked them about diesel engines, very solid and reliable, tried and trusted technology, efficiency? They laughed, the reason they are so dirty is the way they only partially burn the fuel. Nowhere near 80%. 30 tops
.
0 negative ratings! I get a charge out of this.
Nearly silent, good visibility, nice interior, doesn't pollute at at a standstill, doesn't fund terrorists, and recharging at home is the cheapest way to travel those 100 miles. Awesome. Go Nissan-Renault!
@sonbuhitsunei I have now been driving a Nissan Leaf every day for the past 6 months, we've covered 7,800 miles in it so far, if you check later videos in the Fully Charged series we now have solar panels which, over a year, supply about 60% of the electricity the car uses. It is incredibly convenient and incredibly cheap to drive. Around £5 ($7) per 1,000 miles, you can read my weekly Leaf Diary on the charging point dot com
This car actually interest me a lot, even when calculating value losses and everything else versus gasolene/diesel car I will save money when using it as my commuter car. Here we get free road tax, no congestion tax, free parking with free charging, plus drive in the bus lane. Most of all I will save a lot of time on my commute in the bus lane waving at the congested traffic next to me.
I will test the car for myself and see if it could function as the everyday car and if it can I will get one.
I do wonder how much it would cost to replace or refurbish the batteries when it comes time to change them
@fullychargedshow The way I understand it, AC motors have slightly higher efficiency than DC motors. But DC controllers have slightly higher efficiency than AC controllers. In the end there is not a lot of difference. The more noticeable differences are:
Price, AC controllers are more expensive than DC controllers.
Regenerative breaking, is much easier to implement on AC than on DC.
DC motors are supposed to have higher torque at low RPMs.
@sonbuhitsunei Also note that the car can be plugged into a standard wall outlet. The only trade off is it charges slower.
I went to the alt car expo this past weekend and shot a few videos of this car as well as took the Guided tour from the caffeinated super charged guide. One of my favorite weird things about this car is the Audio of an engine below 18 mph.
@fullychargedshow
Swell. Looking forward to it.
Future battery technology would be interesting too ( e.g: Lithium-air ), if you meet battery related people too.
Yeah, thats the whole point. When you can buy vauxhall astras and golf's for 20-25k and say you commute to London, you avoid thousands in charges, low maintenance and with ever increasing fuel prices you save over 8 years it becomes worthwhile, not to mention the possibility say in 5 years to update with a cheaper longer range battery
A problem may arise with the charging of this car with regard to the timer charging, ie you may go on a run forget that you have the timer set, plug it into a street charging station walk away come back a few hours later expecting your car to be charged but nothing due to the timer being set, then you are stuck waiting for it to charge all over again after turning off the timer charge system.
That was awesome!!! So smooth. Nice review. I'm going to start watching your show regularly. Were you on Red Dwarf? Are you Kryton?
@fullychargedshow I drive a Think City EV. People don't believe you when you tell them how dirt cheap it is to power a car with electricity. I pay $18 to go about 1000 miles. I use it for my 70 mile daily work commute and to run errands near my home. I just have to keep it plugged in at home and at work.
I'm so pleased with Nissan. They have really tried extremely hard to build an electric vehicle that learns from the best of the first generation like the EV-1 and RAV4-EV, and have incorporated a lot of feedback from people who drove those cars. I expect great things from the Leaf.
@MaxxB1ade Yes, it's BLDC or Brushless DC so there are no brushes to wear out. An EV powertrain (not including the batteries) should out live the owner giving 80+ years of reliable motoring!
Buy mid 2016 these cars should be very affordable about $7,500 usd for a 2012 model (my price range). But how long will that big battery last, and the replacement cost is probably extremely expensive. Thank you to fullychargedshow very good info!
Wally Lindberg got my 2012 Leaf for very close to what stated in July of 2016. SL model with 34,000 miles! 😊 Really love this car!
Therein lies the problem! how much would a replacement battery cost?
Nissan has there battery replacement program up and running, replace that battery about $6,000.
katakisLives the battery charge lasts around 8 years or so before it starts to degrade significantly, like 60% or less charge. You shouldn’t have to worry about replacing the battery, you will probably sell the car by then and get a better range car lol
The only problem I have at the moment is the recharging from the mains. When you plug it in, I can see two problems for me. I don't have a driveway so I have to park outside my house on the kerb.
First off all, what happens if someone trips over the wire?
And secondly, when you plug it in, it doesn't look like the hatch can close down and around the wire to secure it. So what stop someone from coming around and unpluging it to stop you recharging? I can see that being solved easily though.
Thanks for bringing up the issue of reliability. Every time I have to haul my ICE car down for expensive, time consuming service I remind myself that maybe, someday, I won't have to visit the shop at all. But do we have any real-world examples of electric cars, in daily use, going for 300,000 miles?
currently working on a similar project as a Mec Eng Design -perfect inspiration
@HogsOfWarVideos BLDC motors are actually a type of AC motor. The differences in efficiencies don't appear to be that large, especially with the variable speed ranges an EV uses. BLDC motors also use rare earth magnets that are relatively expensive, AC induction motors do not. Tesla motors had a good discussion of the two technologies on their website.
@fullychargedshow My Province has announced they will be installing 100 charging stations all over the city (Montreal) in March of this year. Costing $2.50 Canadian to charge it fully. That's CHEAPER than a parking spot as some will be DOWNTOWN. It even includes the RAPID 30 minute charge that is compatible with this car if I am in a hurry. I am extremely excited about this and look forward to more videos about the Nissan Leaf. Our government also has a new $8000 DISCOUNT!
Having the quick charge option is nice but can you only charge it that way in your home? If i was to take a trip that was 1000mile how would I get there? I guess it would work if we had charging stations like we have gas stations. For every day commute to work and back this would be great. I'm really glad to see this and hope other companies follow in Nissans foot steps to help the world go green. I think with the price of this and additional costs its not going to be popular =(
8hrs charge from a 13A plug.
Why don't they charge from 50A sockets, (installation required) like a shower uses? The charging time would be very quick. I'm sure they can develop batteries that can take this current.
@TheEverTwistedOne The wire is pretty meaty,not a flimsy appliance wire, it'll be waist height for most people and probably yellow in colour
Second, the public chargers have lockable key fobs,you could probably have a locking mechanism
@fulychargedshow : Think you could slip them a feature request?
Seeing the sheer independence of choosing power source that comes with an electric vehicle, the manufacturers should make it possible to charge the car at lower voltages and DC too. We know the batteries will be storing in DC at low voltage.
Plus, a portable dynamo should be included with the car so that you can hook it up with any rotating shaft and recharge the batteries. That'll make it truly flexible - even in disasters.
A good safety idea for EV drivers, and those with PHEV and hybrids running electrically is the refrain from tinting your windows. Since many pedestrians and others may not hear the car, it's just that more important to make eye-to-eye contact especially at intersections where many mishaps occur.
for me biggest concern is battery life and the cost when we need to change the whole set.
@Sharkotron Quick charging to 100% is not good for li batteries. 13Ax220vx8hr is just over 20KWH at 90% efficiency. Let me know how far it goes at 70mph with the heat on when it is 30 degrees out. I'd bet 50 miles at best.
@charlesischuck This tired old argument makes me sigh. It is simply not true, not by any standards or measurements made by any scientists on any side of the argument. It is a mistruth who's existence was created directly by oil companies directly bribing journalists to spin anti alternative fuel transport. Not covertly, quite openly and publicly. Here's a simple, easy to understand fact. A fossil fuel engine can only use fossil fuel, an electric car can use electricity from any source
@fullychargedshow "I can barely be bothered to keep replying but that is arrant nonsense."
For what it's worth I for one appreciate the time you've spent countering the arguments made here by llandudnoboy and made elsewhere by J Clarkson and his ilk. Your EV videos are informative and enjoyable and I hope you'll continue to enjoy creating them for a long time to come.
Robert... Just saw your preview for fifth gear and the leaf, looks good
@TheBIG24FAN
Interesting question, lithium batteries HATE freezing temperatures. Are they protected (heated)? Because -10 c° wouldn't be a very good idea.
@llandudnoboy Finally, please please don't get an electric car. There is no reason you should. One thing is worth considering. Last year (in June) China overtook America as the worlds largest importer of oil. Oil isn't going to run out in our lifetime, probably never. It is an incredibly useful resource used in agriculture, manufacturing, pharmaceuticals. Maybe, just maybe we shouldn't be wasting billions of gallons every day burning it in outdated, club king, steam age technology?
Nice car... I would be a bit worried on the cost of charging have you noticed that electricity prices are going up and up in your home? also the charging places around in the street could be alot more expensive? this clip at no point mentioned the COST of the car. Are we naive to think the oil and car companies would allow the cumbustion engine to be obsoete? when I see a charging point on the lizard peninsular I will start to think about this car..I own a nissan note petrol
Is it wrong that I'm totally sold purely because it plays a tune when you turn it on?
@TheBIG24FAN Well if you are concerned how range adversely affects the Leaf's batteries I suggest waiting until year 2012, the new version will have 'heated battery' to restore lost range in Winter.
South Somerset are just about to get their first licensed Electric Taxi, but I won't spoil the surprise just yet.
Thanks for these videos Robert, nice to see somebody testing all these :o)
I'm driving a polo bluemotion as a company car at the mo. my daily commute is 46 motorway miles each way (92 in total). what kind of range can this car achieve at motorway speeds?
that start-up tone would drive me mental!!!
the 2010-present Nissan Leaf is assembled in
Japan: Oppama, Tochigi, Yokohama
United Kingdom: Sunderland (2013)
United States: Smyrna, Tennessee (late 2012)
@WestLABoy well, my dads huge farm irrigation pump has been going for a good 25 years and that thing would be 5 times the size of a car engine. As far as I know they're all pretty much the same
These types of vehicles are best suited for town or local use within a 30 or so mile range which is perfect for most people's use, I would own one if the price was right, in fact I wanted a twizy but they are far to expensive on the battery, not much fun though like you said on a motorway long distance.
Actually, yes. Badly burnt wood shortens lives, a lot! There is an active charity to educate people on making better ovens to cook with that also saves on the amount of wood required too. A Morris Minor requires leaded petrol and runs a compression which gives of NOX, while burning the fuel badly. In turn explains a lot about you.
9:25 I noticed the leaf also looks like it has a regular car battery, what's that used for?
@JRP3
Even that tesla blogpost states that its easier to cool the BLDC rotor. I read somewhere else that it might be cooled by heat conduction only. I guess though with more powerful motors that is not enough.
@testingforms Little mix up, Im a brit so the japanese drive on the left with the steering wheel on the right like us...probably a u.s spec leaf imported over
@RussellTuan
Several articles on Google say that the current replacement cost of the Leaf battery is around $9,000. They also say that the battery will keep a full charge for around 10 years, when it will still store about 70% of a full charge. This is based on mainly recharging the car from a 220 volt line. The "fast" recharges from DC are predicted to reduce battery life at a faster rate than the 8-hour 220 volt recharge.
@46Mongoose It sounds like you're describing a perpetual motion scheme, which can't work. The "4HP draw" on the engine would produce less than 4HP of energy. You'd lower your range by doing that.
recent cold and snowy weather across much of the U.S. reminded us that driving in winter conditions can be quite challenging. But according to an article in the Washington Post, owners of electric cars may be facing some additional bone-chilling realities since batteries run down much more quickly in cold temperatures. A change of just 10 degrees can sap 50% of a battery’s output, and running the heater to stay warm or the car radio to stay informed can drain the battery even further-cfact org
I live in London and I barely every go more than 50 miles in a day. I'd love to have one of these for most of my journeys and then keep my sports car for the weekend/when i feel like burning some petrol :)
@Hirotoro4692 Ecotricity are providing solar and wind powered slow chargers at various service stations across Britain's motorways also... I see all these people say EV's have a long way to go, and while I agree, I do think we are getting there VERY quickly.
This range anxiety thing annoys people cause they are worried about loss of freedom. Roughly 87-90% of drivers do not exceed the Leaf's range (round-trip) more than at best 1-3 times per year. For most of us, this anxiety is unfounded.
@heartlessvietboy the leaf DOES charge as you brake though
the only thing this irks me about this car is the low front end. we have lots of deer in my area, so a deer collision would seem to send it through the windshield instead of knocking it out of the way.
I read that Nissan Leafs come with wireless connectivity to Nissan's network called CARWINGS. Is this optional or at least can it be switched off? I really don't need this functionality and I'd rather not have to pay for something that I don't want. I want an electric car but not one that spies on me. It's bad enough with mobile phones.
+Veganic ♾ I'm sure you can disable it. Maybe a fuse. Right now I think Carwings is disabled on all Leafs after a hacker figured out how to mess with any Leaf via the cell phone towers. Older LEafs (2011-2014, maybe 2015) will need a 3G upgrade I think soon in order to keep being connected.
+Veganic ♾ yes you can turn it of, and you don't even need to register yourself if you don't want to.
I tested one...Love the car. I live in an apartment though so for me it's impractical, Otherwise I'd surely get one. 100% torque available instantly and it actually feels good to toss the car around curves
you are aware that ICEs consume roughly 2 times the fuel when they run on alcohol... Also where are you growing the grain/fruit to make the alcohol?
@nikjs A good idea, though from a cost/benefit point of view of Nissan it's probably not worth it. It should be fairly easy to build a portable generator system that will do what you suggest. Or a portable wind turbine like on caravans. Of course it'd take ages to charge like that, but another advantage of electricity is that you can change it from one form to another fairly easily - if you're willing to lose a few percent as heat for each change.
No problem. Among all the potential problems that you could have with an electric car, I think that one would be near the bottom of the list of things to worry about. Electric cars use the same kinds of computers as every other car, and the electric motors are similar to starter motors in normal cars, and the power inverters are similar to the ignition components of normal cars. You'd be at no more and no less risk with an EV than a gasoline powered car. :)