No you just hate the fact that strong women exist, it triggers you, characters being strong doesn't make the power scaling bad, you just desperately want certain characters to be weak but they aren't. Cope.
@gammafrost Take your hate to your Disney movies, it has everything to do with your hatred for strong women so you desperately want them to be weak, cope.
@@ssa_saiyan7368 Explain how Goku and Vegeta are stronger than both Caulifa and Kale, Fuse and are somehow weaker than Kelfa, while also having a form far beyond ssj2. Make it make sense.
@soysauce-xm1vi the versions of goku and vegeta that your comparing are way weaker ones than the tournament of power and having a higher form doesn't automatically make you above someone with a lower form
@@ssa_saiyan7368but it still gives you a clear edge. I mean ssj is a times 50 multiplier, Kefla only reaches ssj 2, which is a times 100 multiplier. Vegito can get to ssj Blue which is Super saiyan GOD, which is by far stronger than ssj 3(times 400 multiplier), and God again times 50 because of blue. We did not get a specific number for ss God multiplier, but apparently it was enough to bring Goku from being one shot by Beerus to actually being somewhat even. And also you remember when Goku wanted to start the Tournament of Power because he got rusty and injured by a robber? I wouldn't say that Goku in ToP was stronger than the one fighting against Zamasu... Well at least not in the beginning.
@@ssa_saiyan7368 Further more, a base Potara Fusion is stated to be stronger than both fused people in their strongest form. so already Vegito is stronger than both Goku and Vegeta in Super Saiyan Blue. and once he goes Blue, he gets far stronger than that. so make Kefla beating Vegito make sense.
Kefla was drunk on power and it makes sense because Caulifila was a ball of energetic ego (she's actually a good mix of Goku's excitement for battle + Vegeta's pride in terms of his power) that was getting a taste of Kale's power after they merged. Even if she is above Vegito Blue, I think the more experienced Saiyan combo would take the win. Let's not forget that Goku was putting in the WORK on both female Super Saiyans as a Super Saiyan 2 (which took a bit of effort). However, Super Saiyan God Goku EASILY swatted them away like they were nothing! Goku was running on FUMES at this point! A Goku at 100% would've been even more at ease. Let's not forget that Kale (power wise) in her 'controlled berserker state' was said to be way more powerful than her initial 'Legendary Super Saiyan' transformation that tanked Super Saiyan Blue Goku's charged Kamehameha. Base Kefla was toying around with SSG Goku, but I think a Goku not running on empty would've put up a better fight. Funny how people talk about Goku & Vegeta getting a 'rival boost' after becoming Vegito. Does that mean Kale and Caulifla get a 'sis boost' after fusing too? 🤣
i agree with this, if goku wasnt running on 2% i think he could have beat kefla or got VERY close to doing so without ui. but because he was running off scraps of freizas energy it was a much harder fight
That’s a good question about the boost. In the buu saga, elder Kai says that goku and Vegeta are two sides of the same coin, which is why their fusion was far more powerful than anything seen up until that point. However, people could also argue kale and caulifla get a (somewhat) equivalent boost due to them being two sides of the same coin but far more friendlier to each other. Fun question
@@S0dapop583 to top it off unlike saiyans of uni 7 their transformations don’t exactly come from pure rage I mean cabbas did but it didn’t necessarily have to. So I personally think their sis bond is another form of harmony which in turn can give them that “boost”. As you said tho, it’s a fun question indeed.
I'd have to go with Vegito. He's severely underestimated because of his performance against Zamasu but not only was Zamasu immortal, he had Goku blacks hax. I doubt Goku and Vegeta surpassed Vegito in the tournament of power excluding maybe MUI. For Goku and Vegeta to surpass Vegito Blue from the black saga, their base would have to be as strong as Blue Goku and Vegeta from that arc. This quite literally can't be true as Goku was rusty right before the tournament of power so unless he randomly got billions of times stronger, he's still weaker. If what Vados said is anything to go by, Base Vegito is SSB Goku(Possible x10) + SSB Vegeta multiplied by 10s of times and Blue Vegito is a blue multiplier on top of that. If we're going to use statements from the tournament of power, then Super Hero is more recent and Vegeta in that movie said Jiren wasn't much stronger than them, but he knew how to control his power better when attacking. Vegito Blue is at least MUI level.
At the end,A half dead base form goku block a attack from jiren with one hand that knock down golden freeza and 17 at the same time.half dead Base goku tank the same attack that one tap ssbkk20 goku from the beginning of top. This ignoring the fact that jiren used the power that defect spirit bomb is already far beyond vegeto.Ssb goku later fought a far stronger jiren. Saiyens grows at a massive rate when pushed. Hell even in goku black arc goku overpowrred fused zamasu blast even though he was weaker than black indivisually before.
@@om9959 And he also survived an attack from Corrupted Zamasu. Of course Goku's going to survive things he shouldn't for the sake of plot. The same Goku that blocked attacks from Jiren took damage in a higher form. Saiyans grow at a massive rate when pushed, but not by millions to billions of times. As strong as TOP Goku is, he's not Black Saga SSB level in base.
@@MagicNebula-s1c Fun fact: Kefla lasted for two minutes canonically. We don't know how long Vegito lasted but he was on screen for a good 7 minutes or so. Granted Kefla's defusion seemed to occur from being defeated.
Vegito literally broke the fusion due to raw power and was compared to Beerus. Kefla never broke the fusion and wasn’t even compared to champa. They are not the same.
@@thelastsaiyan No, He never stated or on Confirmed that. HE GAVE his Idea and Theory on why it defused, Throught the whole Manga on that Arc specially is shown how a Imperfect SB Blue is a VERY big Energy Consumer to the point of SSJG been Stronger at some point Fusions uses Energies, if you Drain all its energy they are done and Defuses This is something Trunks Confirmed in the Buu Saga Manga with Gotenks, stating they can't stay on SSJ3 Long due to the Energy Consuption Trunks is a More reliable source than a Kaioshin that even then is not sure of his Answer Also Vegito=Gogeta stated by Gogeta himself All that Changes is how many time the Fusion Lasts but they are same person. Energy Consuption decreasing the Fusion Time is Not New, Vegito used an Imperfect Blue and the Energy Consuption was just to High, thats why they couldn't even shot their Final Kamehameha. After that Fight is that Goku Perfects SSJB and doesn't make it has such extreme energy consuption But even before that Fight Vegeta was switching Between God and Blue due to Blues Energy Consuption They simply didn't know that the Blue Energy Consuption would also affect Vegito to the point it would make them defuse that Fast
@@Sr_V2 Ok 1. Saying kid trunks from the buu saga is more reliable than a kaioshin is absolutely crazy. Trunks and given just learned about fusion so they have little to no knowledge and they just unlocked ssj3. 2. Your statement falls a part when you watch blue gogeta fight broly and don’t defuse. 3. Gotenks didn’t even use the potara to fuse so they were under a time limit anyway. Plus I don’t think they even think they defused faster than the 30 minute time limit. In chapter 24 of the Super manga the kaioshin of the other universe said that “maybe those two had so much power that the fusion became unstable”. Vegito had to power up to try to fire a final Kamehameha which made them defuse. If power consumption was the issue then vegito would be getting weaker and losing the fight or even de-transform not defuse. Power consumption was a big problem with ssj blue but if the kaioshin states the reason why they defused and there isn’t a rebuttal or corrective statement then that’s the reason why they defused. Plus if you think about it Kelfa said her ki was overflowing so she would be dealing with power consumption too. Why didn’t she defuse?
I agree that Vegito destroys but not sure if Kefla didn't break the fusion in the anime the potara is destroyed but not sure that was what caused them to defuse or cause of Kales potential
Easy way to end the debate. If SS2 Kale and Caulifla weren't able to handle a fatigued SSG Goku. Then what makes y'all think she can handle a form 50 times stronger than SSG and they're both fused at full power?
VB is far superior than kefla. Even if i give kefla a chance and say kefla and VB has equal strength(not saying why as it was stated in the video), VB has extreme high battle iq. And a HUGE problem with kefla is that Kefla is extremely hot headed. Not being able to have a calm mind during a fight is a huge huge disadvantage. ESPECIALLY, Vegito Blue.
@@CosmicCuriositiesHQ Vegito won against buuhan he was man handling him the whole fight the only reason he didn’t kill him was because he wanted to save everyone that got absorbed
Why is this a debate💔 Goku alone was able to solo kefla and he didn't even use complete ui, he was using ui sign. Goku gets touched by base vegito, kefla ssj2 isn't doing anything to base vegito, not to mention ssjb vegito 😭
@@nevadalotto560 Vegito Blue in GB Arc is stated by Shin to be equivalent or equal to Beerus. They dont get ultra exponentially stronger a single arc after.
*Base* Vegito oneshots. That’s right. I’m being dead serious. She was going somewhat toe-to-toe as SSJ with a SSJB Goku running on fumes at 0.01% of his power, who only very recently started training again in the few days prior to the tournament after *months* of not training and being rusty, who logically even at full power should be weaker than the Black Arc Goku that fused with Black Arc Vegeta, who are both significantly weaker than Base Black Arc Vegito combined. This isn’t even close.
@saulgoodmanskin Goku was never tired he was getting stronger from zenkais Kefla beat a way stronger Goku when he fought jiren and forced em to go ultra instinct. Kefla is ultra instinct level while vegito is nowhere near that
@saulgoodmanskin If Goku was tired then he would've been gasping for air. Goku never stated or even complain about his stamina or being tired when he fought Kefla so that assumption is irrelevant. Base vegito that's to easy for Kefla, SSB Vegito is still no different Kefla easy solos and it's not even close.
This comparison doesn’t make sense. Vegeta and Goku are stronger than those 2 characters so clearly their fusion would be stronger and SSJ Blue is astronomically stronger than SSJ2 so how is there any debate to be made?
@@TurlesSon-u5sok, and? Even if Kefla's base is a bit stronger than Vegito's, the gap between SSB and SS2 as forms is so astronomical, Vegito would still put Kefla in an early grave.
@@righteousone5119 the problem is BC of powerlifting, SSB Goku and vegeta at this time are so strong they alone should be almost enough to handle base/ssj VEGITO, and considering kale is only part of this fusion, base kefla should alr be around SSG VEGITO. The only real argument for vegito is battle IQ and experience
It also depends if you're considering manga Vegetto or anime Vegetto. If it's manga Vegetto, there is no way Kefla beats Vegetto, even if we go manga vegetto vs anime kefla - it's even more one sided against manga kefla. It might be a bit closer if we're considering anime Vegetto if we think that Vegetto was going SSB because he wasn't strong enough to take on Zamasu. If we don't, it's the same case as the manga Vegetto, not regarding the Goku was tired vs Kefla.
I think because th versions solo kefla because super saiyan blue vegito from the zamasu arc is supposed to be equal to gogeta ue in the broly movie since goku and vegeta base form have gotten stronger from the tournament of power but gogeta is supposed to be weaker than vegito but since the time difference here during th arcs I think they should be equal and we all know kefla does not beat a full power lssj broly and ssjb goku was cooking zamasu and ssjb vegeta cooked goku black just in super saiyan blue so I think anime vegito solos just like manga vegito
I think that this isn’t even a debate let me explain So assuming that ssbkk goku can slightly keep up with SSJ kefla when we add vegeta into the mix they are gonna walk all over kefla and assuming it’s a non fatigued goku yeah the goat duo for sure wins. So then take that multiply it by like 5-100 and you have vegito, now you tell me who wins
If Broly couldn’t close the gap against Gogeta, I doubt Kefla could close the gap against Vegito. If Vegito figures out the power hax like Gogeta did against Broly, he cooks.
14:53 While it is pretty reasonable to use the argument for shin not being reliable because of his past mistakes and miscalculations, moments like this are sort of in a way the writers trying to give narrative implications and state something. It's more like if a character has shown to be wrong sometimes... however is later used in the story to explain something such as important information or lore of the story, the statement should be reliable. Besides...the anime never makes it seem like shin is wrong or does not portray shin to be wrong about the statement he makes regarding jiren. The anime treats his dialogue in a way that intended for the audience to know a information regarding jiren's power. There is not even any moment regarding this statement where shin is later proven wrong . So this shouldn't taken as a classic shin is stupid and is wrong moment . Not just that .second shin says this , whis states that jiren is truly beyond a god of destruction. At that moment it is pretty clear that judging by the expression of everyone of universe 7 there as well as the grim looking state as well as both the dialogue of shin and whis, jiren was beyond anything they had fought. Also literally this wasn't even jiren at his actual full power. If jiren at his supressed state was actually weaker then vegito blue then nobody would have such a hopeless and terrified expression on their faces and make it seem like they never seen anything like jiren before. It's pretty clear what shin means here. Saying otherwise is more like headcanon .Even if there exists other statements and evidence that puts vegito far ahove kefla, if both of them are scaled inversely purely based on this statement then kefla would slam vegito in strength and speed.
the thing for me is that the potaras multiplier is the same no matter what unless its a rival boost which does apply to vegito and maybe kefla. For someone to prove that kefla is atleast equal to vegito, You would have to say that kale and caulifla are stronger then goku and vegeta from the goku black arc respectively
@@om9959 Naw bruh, Goku went 2v1 against them. U think Goku could take himself and Vegeta 2v1 from the Black Arc? I don’t. Character expressions only mean so much. They also didn’t have the Potaras in the TOP. Imagine feeling Jirens suppressed power and knowing u DONT have Vegito to fall back on. I’d be terrified too. Says nothing about where Jiren actually stood in relation to Vegito. Kefla easily gettin slammed IMO.
Bro you stated exactly how it goes in the anime and that kefla stomps vegito in speed and strength because it's true. Manga is a different continuity entirely so you cannot include it as an informal bias. Anime present kefla as stronger because she is, manga she is not stronger
14:08 this isn’t really a problem. Shin comments that the power Jiren displayed is above everything they faced before which includes MZ who has relativity to Vegito Blue. When Goku achieves UIO it’s stated that he closed the gap between himself and Jiren that the statement is centered around, and based on what Piccolo says and feats displayed, Kefla should scale above Omen 1 Goku.
Ok and that means nothing obviously kefla wins but that’s like saying if I lift for 10 days it closes the gap between me and Eddie hall it’s still a massive gap it doesn’t mean they’re close in power
@@moussadiarra9247thats a dumb argument jiren literally power up against ui goku as he literally walk through his quick attack that blink away spirit bomb. Everyone was screaming like how goku forcing jiren to use more of his power.
Using statements from Shin is interesting when everyone arguing for VB has more sources that are also coincidentally from more credible figures like Vados. Shin is too weak, lazy, and ignorant of his surroundings to trust as a source for anyone's power in the TOP. You tried, though. Here's a reward for your efforts. 🍪
5 годин тому
12:59 That is a Divine Kamehameha, don't mind what sparking zero calls it. The Xenoverse 2 name is better and its also called divine kamehameha by the fandom wiki.
kefla is my favorite fusion in the entirety of db but personally i do think vegito blue has the upper hand, mainly due to just being more powerful as a whole but also the fact that kefla doesnt have full control and experience as a fusion compared to vegito who had fused prior. regardless, very well made video and very informative!
Vegito wins because he is very strategic and he takes more of Vegeta's strategic mind and Goku's strength and that's why Vegito will win if the battle goes on longer and if it's manga Vegito then he wins and if it's anime Vegito it will be equal because manga Vegito is stronger and Goku was also very fatigued as we saw with his outfit and his looks, he looked very fatigued and was tired even if he got his energy back doesn't mean the fatigue will be gone and shin is liar because he didn't even knew anything about potara and he is mostly wrong in statements Vegito wins
@@nevadalotto560caulifa isn’t even close to ss god level. Goku was weakened and still man handling both kale and caulifa in God form. Now you want to say that kefla can beat a fusion composed of two ssb ? Okay whatever you say 👋🏾
@JusKiyoshi Bro SSJ Goku from Android saga was MUCH stronger than Goku from Namek. Goku Blue from Moro saga was much stronger than Goku Blue from ToP. Yes, Gogeta Blue is MUCH stronger than Vegito Blue.
@@nevadalotto560 thats still mind bogoling to me i remember hearing that Toriyama only planned for fused Zamasu to be a Goku level threat, but goku black was op even in base power levels in that arc were all over the place tbh
@@nevadalotto560vegito lasted 40 mins in the manga while 10 in the anime. and the reason why it's because Goku and Vegeta didnt master ssjb untill Broly movie (anime when Goku was transforming into blue that was the moment he showed his mastered blue form) + this argument is irrelevant 5 mins is more than enough for vegito to trash talk on kefla and then finishing her
I actually think you are right. In the Broly movie, Gogeta was going toe to toe with Broly in SSJ. And we all know Kefla is no match for Broly in the movie.
@@MER17Tno he doesn’t. The most he would need is ss3 and that’s only because of Kale’s extreme potential and power. Ssb goku alone was pushing ss kefla and he was still heavily weakened from fighting Jiren.
Can someone explained how its stated in in battle of the gods saga that ssg transformation was more powerfull than any other fusion before (aka ssj1 and ssj2) but in TOP even super sayan blue wasnt enough for kefla
Not in base, cause kefla was stated by piccolo to surpassed Goku (UI omen when fighting jiren for the first time) earlier fight, so vegito have to go all out and would stood on top though hard difficulty.
@@PaNVin_ Manga he still loses Ultimate Gohan and Goku would no diff vegito. Kefla is ultra instinct level vegito is nowhere near that and he couldn't even kill Fused Zamasu if it was Gogeta he would've been ended zamasu in 20 seconds Kefla solos and it's not even close.
@@nevadalotto560 fatigued goku in UI did good against Kefla. Now if we had a fresh SSB Vegito ( has both goku and vegeta) vs a fresh Kefla , obviously vegito wins.
we shouldn't forget that vegito is wayy smarter than kefla and we shouldn't forget the fact that vegito didnt show his full power because they defused vegito blue giving kefla the videl treatment
Vegito, hands down. He wouldn't even need to go SSB to defeat Kefla. Goku could have soloed Kefla without UI Sign if he wasn't fatigued. I don't even see how this is a conversation. Shin, as you pointed out, is not a reliable source, and Piccolo saying that Kefla surpassed Goku's previous energy levels, how would he know that? It's established that no one can sense god ki unless they are trained to sense it. Piccolo wasn't trained, and no, being fused with Kami doesn't count since he was never able to sense Beerus, Goku or Vegeta's energy before until suddenly he could for that one line. This is all just Super's horrible writing and inconsistency with power scaling. For me, the manga is canon where Gohan could defeat Kefla.
It’s amazing how this is still being debated. Caulifa isn’t even close to god level and yet they’re saying kefla can best a ssb vegito 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@@dadoggo1513 Yes actually I have. Super's issue is introducing something, god ki, and having to scale new enemies/opponents who shouldn't be at that level to be able to compete. Think about it. Goku absorbed the power of SSJ god during the Battle of Gods movie/arc, meaning his base power became what his SSJ god form was during that movie/arc, sending him soaring beyond what he was at the beginning of the movie. Vegeta caught up through his training with Whis, in addition to all the training and fighting they went through up to the ToP. Now, for opponents to mean anything to them, you'd have to make the argument that every single one of them, Caulifa, Kale, Cabba, are all stronger than what Goku was as a SSJ god during Battle of Gods and could all fight against Beerus the same way Goku did during that arc. That isn't power creeping, that's inconsistency with power scaling, and scaling Goku and Vegeta to such heights that it makes no sense for anyone else to keep up with them.
@@dadoggo1513 100% because the scaling given to the universe 6 saiyans is moronic. None of them should be able to keep up with the god forms. Hell, base Goku and Vegeta should be able to take them all on, with Kefla requiring them to transform, not even to god if the power scaling actually made sense. But even with the moronic scaling, Goku alone could take on Kefla if he was starting off fresh, even at her SSJ2 level. So yeah, Vegito beats Kefla hands down.
Honestly... when i went back into it... anyone stronger than heavily supressed jiren that first fought goku that the supreme kai blatently called the strongest person he had ever seen, and he saw infinite zamasu, ssb vegito, and sword of hope trunks. So... like... the second jiren powers up even a little past the fight against goku, you are stronger than nearly everyone in the future trunks arc
@@nevadalotto560Vegito's fusion was only shortened by how powerful he was. Technically, due to the tournament of power only lasting 48 minutes, Kefla didn't last 5 minutes either. Besides, Vegito was overpowering Fused Zamasu, so he would definitely overpower Kefla.
At the end,A half dead base form goku block a attack from jiren with one hand that knock down golden freeza and 17 at the same time.half dead Base goku tank the same attack that one tap ssbkk20 goku from the beginning of top. This ignoring the fact that jiren used the power that defect spirit bomb is already far beyond vegeto.Ssb goku later fought a far stronger jiren. Saiyens grows at a massive rate when pushed. Hell even in goku black arc goku overpowrred fused zamasu blast even though he was weaker than black indivisually before.
People still trying to back Kefla like she wasn't fighting an already fatigued Goku. Being able to potentially one-shot a UI Sign Goku (Let alone a Goku who was STILL getting used to it at the time) isn't as impressive as people make it out to be when you think about it. And remember, she was only given that statement AFTER essentially using that last desperation attack. Full power, even base Vegito would pressure her into Super Saiyan.
It might be a convenient plot, but the fact Vegito blue was so strong he couldn't stay fused for more than a few minutes and Kefla could stay fused until she was literally Kamehameha'd out of it is all I need to know.
10:20 Goku charges up to full power in his strongest form and fires a blast while struggling and grunting. I dunno why you would say he’s surpressed. Especially because Vegeta literally warns Goku that Kale could eliminate him. It seems a bit biased to say “Goku blue was able to push back fused Zamasu because “he miraculously got 100s of times stronger”” but that when Kale shows a similar feat, it’s just because Goku was holding back, when all signs point the other way
Just because they're tired doesn't mean they're weaker, Blue Goku does infinitely better against Jiren on round 2. He was also relative to a Vegeta who had no straining fights beforehand
Vegito should easily get the dub not to mention he's got kaioken if he needs it and who knows since he's stronger he could theoretically stack it higher than x20
The problem I have with the shin statement is we know from the Granola arc that Beerus does train and get stronger every second so even if Vegito was relative to Beerus' power at one point Shin's statement likely no longer holds up now due to Beerus clearly being stronger than he was in past arcs
putting vegito (goku black arc) and Kefla (TOP) is kind of unfair as when goku and vegeta were in TOP I think they were stronger than they were in the goku black arc, so if the TOP goku and vegeta fuse into vegito then vegito would probably win
It’s tough to say because caulifla is definitely a step behind Goku, but Kale at full power was walking through a ssblue kamehameha like it was water. The strength that even just full power berserker kale showed put her stronger than ss2 kefla which doesn’t really make sense unless they lose the legendary super saiyan power when they fuse. Even if they were even tho we’re comparing ss2 to Ssblue, theres is no comparison
I can agree with this. Vegito at the time was Goku black arc, Meaning they had the imperfect blue and their energy consumption was horrible. This is the same fusion of a Goku and Vegeta who at the time were way weaker then Goku black and somehow zamasu that they needed to escape twice and have 3 Zenkai boosts, and a fusion to even start having a challenge yet never defeated Zamasu because of healing hacks. Now skip to the TOP, Goku and Vegeta already have had a few Zenkai's since and have perfected blue, Goku during the whole time after the Jiren fight was exhausted beyond measure and had a very small power boost from Frieza. Jiren was stated to be way stronger then his God and this was the Suppressed Jiren after the first UI fight. Goku later at the Near end of the T.O.P IN base extremely tired due to being pushed into Zenkai range numerous times could deflect Jiren's POWERED up blast in BASE. Let's switch to Kefla. This was after the First UI fight and after tons of altercations with other fighters, Goku was once again pushed and gained a Zenkai including UI, and this Goku would've rivaled Jiren's 10% power which once again is beyond the his gods power level by TONS. This Kefla in terms of raw strength is way stronger then the first UI-sign Goku who fought toe to toe with Suppressed Jiren and Second Ui-sign goku and could give Jiren a hard time at Jiren's 10% power. Vegito at the time is compared to Beerus who is Stronger than Jiren's God by a small bit, But Jiren alone is stated to be WAY more powerful than his God meaning he should be way stronger then Beerus. Vegito in conclusion would be weaker then Goku and Vegeta at the Near end of the T.O.P, weaker then Jiren at 10% power, and Kefla at Super Sayain 2 due to the jump in time and mastery of skills and because of whats stated.
Wait, so this is Black arc Vegito blue vs ToP Kefla? I see why this COULD be a debate, but regardless whether their current or from their respective arcs, Vegito should win easily.
I would say Vegito is the strongest fusion in general. He’s the only canon Fusion that was so strong he shortened the Fusion time cause he was using so much power
since fusions are at least a 40000 times multiplier in dbs, manga Vegito blue one shots Beerus. (Beerus has never shown any feats close to being 800 million times stronger than Goku.)
potara doesnt really have a fixed multi like 40000, the most consistent interpretation is (strongest of A + strongest of B)*100 = potara fusions base power
Vegito Blue is a bit of a stretch I'd say, but I wouldn't put it past ToP Kefla to be about on par with a hypothetical SSJ1/2 Vegito from the mid-to-late Black arc in power (talent and experience would likely weigh a fight in favour of Vegito though). U6 tournament base Vegeta was evenly matched with U6 tournament base Cabba, according to Vegeta himself. Whether Cabba got any stronger in the time between U6 tournament and ToP... Probably? Either way, Caulifla is stated to be stronger than Cabba with more latent potential, putting pre-ToP base Caulifla somewhere ahead of U6 tournament base Vegeta, but *probably* not by a whole lot. While impossible to quantify, add in pre-ToP training, any power improvements obtained during the ToP, as well as from the training from fighting Goku all-out, you're probably looking at base Caulifla and Kale at the time of fusion sitting somewhere around early-to-mid-Black arc base Goku and Vegeta levels. Assuming the potara fusion power increase is roughly similar between Vegito and Kefla (good luck quantifying if not), ToP base Kefla should thus sit somewhere around a hypothetical early-mid-Black-arc base Vegito in power, same would go for SSJ1 and SSJ2 forms respectively. Add in whatever unquantifiable amount of power boost from Kefla harnessing Kale's "infinite" power well, the power-up session she had with Goku, as well as from fighting Goku, then yeah, SSJ2 Kefla would probably sit around mid-to-late-Black-arc SSJ2 Vegito.
Btw vegito fan boys shin said that ui goku from fighting jiren the first time the strongest thing he seen meaning ui sign goku>vegito blue And goku said if she touches him once hes cooked
super scalling makes sense, videos like this one are the reason why people say it doesn't. nobody in the tournament of power is even close to vegito blue level (aside jiren and ui goku) not saying its a bad video at all but overanalyzing dialogues over feats doesn't help much.
Vegito blue power was so great that they defused from it instead of an hour. Kefla didn’t defuse even though she was letting out that much power. That says enough.
And she's way stronger and faster needing able to blitz Goku in base form and even one shotting a ssb kaiokenx20 Goku, and also being stated to one shot Ultra Instinct Goku as well Kefla solos and it's not even close.
@@nevadalotto560 that’s a weaken goku super saiyan blue kk20. If he was at full power then he would’ve had the fight in control to begin with. Vegito blue has to conserve energy because that’s how powerful he is otherwise he will defuse. Kefla raw power is great but that’s was just adrenaline at best.
“Come on, Kefla. Don’t go crying to your mommy when I’m done with you!”
The fact that this is even a debate tells you how horrible the power scaling in super was.
No you just hate the fact that strong women exist, it triggers you, characters being strong doesn't make the power scaling bad, you just desperately want certain characters to be weak but they aren't. Cope.
@@MajinUltraEgoyou did not just type that shit here 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ my guy take that shit to your Disney movies. It’s nothing to do with strong women.
@gammafrost Take your hate to your Disney movies, it has everything to do with your hatred for strong women so you desperately want them to be weak, cope.
@@MajinUltraEgo🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@MajinUltraEgowell well well
Kefla:nah I, d win
Vegito:proceeds to give her the zamasu treatment
Vegito gets no diffed
@@ssa_saiyan7368 Explain how Goku and Vegeta are stronger than both Caulifa and Kale, Fuse and are somehow weaker than Kelfa, while also having a form far beyond ssj2. Make it make sense.
@soysauce-xm1vi the versions of goku and vegeta that your comparing are way weaker ones than the tournament of power and having a higher form doesn't automatically make you above someone with a lower form
@@ssa_saiyan7368but it still gives you a clear edge. I mean ssj is a times 50 multiplier, Kefla only reaches ssj 2, which is a times 100 multiplier. Vegito can get to ssj Blue which is Super saiyan GOD, which is by far stronger than ssj 3(times 400 multiplier), and God again times 50 because of blue. We did not get a specific number for ss God multiplier, but apparently it was enough to bring Goku from being one shot by Beerus to actually being somewhat even. And also you remember when Goku wanted to start the Tournament of Power because he got rusty and injured by a robber? I wouldn't say that Goku in ToP was stronger than the one fighting against Zamasu... Well at least not in the beginning.
@@ssa_saiyan7368 Further more, a base Potara Fusion is stated to be stronger than both fused people in their strongest form. so already Vegito is stronger than both Goku and Vegeta in Super Saiyan Blue. and once he goes Blue, he gets far stronger than that. so make Kefla beating Vegito make sense.
but can they beat "a pimp named goten"?
never they will become his slaves
Not possible
Well, wouldn't Goten have to overcome his shoulder injury though
@@_HomTolland gluten solos
That is a pimp name goten please say the entire word yes that includes the a pimp name thank you very much
Kefla was drunk on power and it makes sense because Caulifila was a ball of energetic ego (she's actually a good mix of Goku's excitement for battle + Vegeta's pride in terms of his power) that was getting a taste of Kale's power after they merged.
Even if she is above Vegito Blue, I think the more experienced Saiyan combo would take the win.
Let's not forget that Goku was putting in the WORK on both female Super Saiyans as a Super Saiyan 2 (which took a bit of effort). However, Super Saiyan God Goku EASILY swatted them away like they were nothing!
Goku was running on FUMES at this point! A Goku at 100% would've been even more at ease. Let's not forget that Kale (power wise) in her 'controlled berserker state' was said to be way more powerful than her initial 'Legendary Super Saiyan' transformation that tanked Super Saiyan Blue Goku's charged Kamehameha.
Base Kefla was toying around with SSG Goku, but I think a Goku not running on empty would've put up a better fight.
Funny how people talk about Goku & Vegeta getting a 'rival boost' after becoming Vegito. Does that mean Kale and Caulifla get a 'sis boost' after fusing too? 🤣
they aren't rivals so they won't get any boost (kefla and caulfila)
i agree with this, if goku wasnt running on 2% i think he could have beat kefla or got VERY close to doing so without ui. but because he was running off scraps of freizas energy it was a much harder fight
They said keflas energy was equal to spirit bomb plus blue kaioken x20 at that point she was stronger
That’s a good question about the boost. In the buu saga, elder Kai says that goku and Vegeta are two sides of the same coin, which is why their fusion was far more powerful than anything seen up until that point. However, people could also argue kale and caulifla get a (somewhat) equivalent boost due to them being two sides of the same coin but far more friendlier to each other. Fun question
@@S0dapop583 to top it off unlike saiyans of uni 7 their transformations don’t exactly come from pure rage I mean cabbas did but it didn’t necessarily have to. So I personally think their sis bond is another form of harmony which in turn can give them that “boost”. As you said tho, it’s a fun question indeed.
I'd have to go with Vegito. He's severely underestimated because of his performance against Zamasu but not only was Zamasu immortal, he had Goku blacks hax. I doubt Goku and Vegeta surpassed Vegito in the tournament of power excluding maybe MUI. For Goku and Vegeta to surpass Vegito Blue from the black saga, their base would have to be as strong as Blue Goku and Vegeta from that arc. This quite literally can't be true as Goku was rusty right before the tournament of power so unless he randomly got billions of times stronger, he's still weaker. If what Vados said is anything to go by, Base Vegito is SSB Goku(Possible x10) + SSB Vegeta multiplied by 10s of times and Blue Vegito is a blue multiplier on top of that. If we're going to use statements from the tournament of power, then Super Hero is more recent and Vegeta in that movie said Jiren wasn't much stronger than them, but he knew how to control his power better when attacking. Vegito Blue is at least MUI level.
At the end,A half dead base form goku block a attack from jiren with one hand that knock down golden freeza and 17 at the same time.half dead Base goku tank the same attack that one tap ssbkk20 goku from the beginning of top.
This ignoring the fact that jiren used the power that defect spirit bomb is already far beyond vegeto.Ssb goku later fought a far stronger jiren. Saiyens grows at a massive rate when pushed. Hell even in goku black arc goku overpowrred fused zamasu blast even though he was weaker than black indivisually before.
If we're going by time limits no but power wise yeah I still think he's above kefla even with her feats
@@om9959 And he also survived an attack from Corrupted Zamasu. Of course Goku's going to survive things he shouldn't for the sake of plot. The same Goku that blocked attacks from Jiren took damage in a higher form. Saiyans grow at a massive rate when pushed, but not by millions to billions of times. As strong as TOP Goku is, he's not Black Saga SSB level in base.
@@MagicNebula-s1c Fun fact: Kefla lasted for two minutes canonically. We don't know how long Vegito lasted but he was on screen for a good 7 minutes or so. Granted Kefla's defusion seemed to occur from being defeated.
Performance? Vegetto was wiping the floor w zamasu in the manga, ppl tend to overlook that.
Vegito literally broke the fusion due to raw power and was compared to Beerus. Kefla never broke the fusion and wasn’t even compared to champa. They are not the same.
Vegito Blue broke the Fusion in the Manga cause they had the imperfect Blue and wasted way to much energy.
The Anime is a bit more complicated
@ no in the manga supreme Kai said they were too powerful and the fusion became unstable
@@thelastsaiyan No, He never stated or on Confirmed that.
HE GAVE his Idea and Theory on why it defused, Throught the whole Manga on that Arc specially is shown how a Imperfect SB Blue is a VERY big Energy Consumer to the point of SSJG been Stronger at some point
Fusions uses Energies, if you Drain all its energy they are done and Defuses
This is something Trunks Confirmed in the Buu Saga Manga with Gotenks, stating they can't stay on SSJ3 Long due to the Energy Consuption
Trunks is a More reliable source than a Kaioshin that even then is not sure of his Answer
Also Vegito=Gogeta stated by Gogeta himself
All that Changes is how many time the Fusion Lasts but they are same person.
Energy Consuption decreasing the Fusion Time is Not New, Vegito used an Imperfect Blue and the Energy Consuption was just to High, thats why they couldn't even shot their Final Kamehameha.
After that Fight is that Goku Perfects SSJB and doesn't make it has such extreme energy consuption
But even before that Fight Vegeta was switching Between God and Blue due to Blues Energy Consuption
They simply didn't know that the Blue Energy Consuption would also affect Vegito to the point it would make them defuse that Fast
@@Sr_V2 Ok 1. Saying kid trunks from the buu saga is more reliable than a kaioshin is absolutely crazy. Trunks and given just learned about fusion so they have little to no knowledge and they just unlocked ssj3. 2. Your statement falls a part when you watch blue gogeta fight broly and don’t defuse. 3. Gotenks didn’t even use the potara to fuse so they were under a time limit anyway. Plus I don’t think they even think they defused faster than the 30 minute time limit. In chapter 24 of the Super manga the kaioshin of the other universe said that “maybe those two had so much power that the fusion became unstable”. Vegito had to power up to try to fire a final Kamehameha which made them defuse. If power consumption was the issue then vegito would be getting weaker and losing the fight or even de-transform not defuse. Power consumption was a big problem with ssj blue but if the kaioshin states the reason why they defused and there isn’t a rebuttal or corrective statement then that’s the reason why they defused. Plus if you think about it Kelfa said her ki was overflowing so she would be dealing with power consumption too. Why didn’t she defuse?
I agree that Vegito destroys but not sure if Kefla didn't break the fusion in the anime the potara is destroyed but not sure that was what caused them to defuse or cause of Kales potential
Easy way to end the debate. If SS2 Kale and Caulifla weren't able to handle a fatigued SSG Goku. Then what makes y'all think she can handle a form 50 times stronger than SSG and they're both fused at full power?
VB is far superior than kefla. Even if i give kefla a chance and say kefla and VB has equal strength(not saying why as it was stated in the video), VB has extreme high battle iq. And a HUGE problem with kefla is that Kefla is extremely hot headed. Not being able to have a calm mind during a fight is a huge huge disadvantage. ESPECIALLY, Vegito Blue.
Why’s is this even a debate???
you know vegito. he's hated for being the best fusion so they are comparing him to other fusions
@ayanoslow Second only to the goat gogeta
@@CosmicCuriositiesHQ you just proved his point buddy
@@BRock-j2e Nope, Gogeta is the Goat, has actual wins, the scoreboard dont lie
@@CosmicCuriositiesHQ Vegito won against buuhan he was man handling him the whole fight the only reason he didn’t kill him was because he wanted to save everyone that got absorbed
Why is this a debate💔
Goku alone was able to solo kefla and he didn't even use complete ui, he was using ui sign. Goku gets touched by base vegito, kefla ssj2 isn't doing anything to base vegito, not to mention ssjb vegito 😭
@Hakaishin-225 Goku alone was beating zamasu and vegito couldn't do nothing to zamasu
UI Goku beats Vegito
@ashuraomega1000 vegito slaps kefla
@nevadalotto560 what?
Nah that's bullshit @ashuraomega1000
I'm glad it's the first day of 2025 and I'm not seeing "NOT EVEN CLOSE" spammed in every single one of these.
Not even close -👁️👁️-
ITS FUTILE🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
ITS FUTILE🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
ITS FUTILE🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Of course vegito wins wth
@ kefla is not besting vegito in a 2v2
Where do you see a 2v2 and kefla slams
@ vegito and kefla are fusions of 2 people so it’s a 2v2 and there’s no way vegito would loose against kefla if gohan could beat her
@@moussadiarra9247 cap
@@TheOnlyMetalThat’s manga only. Anime kefla was stronger than UI Omen 2. Ui Omen 2 Goku is far stronger than Vegito blue from the Goku black arc.
This is a comedy matchup. Please. If you think Kefla is even close to Vegito Blue you're a simp.
@@nevadalotto560 Vegito Blue in GB Arc is stated by Shin to be equivalent or equal to Beerus. They dont get ultra exponentially stronger a single arc after.
@@sinowosa Even broly was stated to be equal to Beerus Kefla easily solos and it's not even close
No dbs powercliffing is actually that bad, I’m not joking you
@@Numbers-gStands How is it bad that a character got stronger than another 😂
It's not what we think , it's what we know based on the show. If you think Vegito is even Close to kefla you're a simp
*Base* Vegito oneshots. That’s right. I’m being dead serious.
She was going somewhat toe-to-toe as SSJ with a SSJB Goku running on fumes at 0.01% of his power, who only very recently started training again in the few days prior to the tournament after *months* of not training and being rusty, who logically even at full power should be weaker than the Black Arc Goku that fused with Black Arc Vegeta, who are both significantly weaker than Base Black Arc Vegito combined.
This isn’t even close.
@saulgoodmanskin Goku was never tired he was getting stronger from zenkais Kefla beat a way stronger Goku when he fought jiren and forced em to go ultra instinct. Kefla is ultra instinct level while vegito is nowhere near that
@saulgoodmanskin If Goku was tired then he would've been gasping for air. Goku never stated or even complain about his stamina or being tired when he fought Kefla so that assumption is irrelevant. Base vegito that's to easy for Kefla, SSB Vegito is still no different Kefla easy solos and it's not even close.
@saulgoodmanskin And that same Goku would one shot vegito WDYM duh
@@nevadalotto560why didn’t you just put all of this in one comment
@@bestplayerofalltime105 Because that would be too much to read.
This comparison doesn’t make sense. Vegeta and Goku are stronger than those 2 characters so clearly their fusion would be stronger and SSJ Blue is astronomically stronger than SSJ2 so how is there any debate to be made?
in the manga kale was basically able to handle ssb goku, vegeta, golden frieza and toppo at the same time before she started losing power
@@TurlesSon-u5s Kefla easily solos vegito is literally a couple of arcs behind so of course he's weaker
@@TurlesSon-u5sok, and? Even if Kefla's base is a bit stronger than Vegito's, the gap between SSB and SS2 as forms is so astronomical, Vegito would still put Kefla in an early grave.
@@righteousone5119 the problem is BC of powerlifting, SSB Goku and vegeta at this time are so strong they alone should be almost enough to handle base/ssj VEGITO, and considering kale is only part of this fusion, base kefla should alr be around SSG VEGITO.
The only real argument for vegito is battle IQ and experience
@@TurlesSon-u5s base-SS Vegito from the previous arc, right? Base Fusion is ALWAYS significantly stronger than the full power of the fusees.
the trash talking would be insane
W facts
It also depends if you're considering manga Vegetto or anime Vegetto. If it's manga Vegetto, there is no way Kefla beats Vegetto, even if we go manga vegetto vs anime kefla - it's even more one sided against manga kefla. It might be a bit closer if we're considering anime Vegetto if we think that Vegetto was going SSB because he wasn't strong enough to take on Zamasu. If we don't, it's the same case as the manga Vegetto, not regarding the Goku was tired vs Kefla.
I think because th versions solo kefla because super saiyan blue vegito from the zamasu arc is supposed to be equal to gogeta ue in the broly movie since goku and vegeta base form have gotten stronger from the tournament of power but gogeta is supposed to be weaker than vegito but since the time difference here during th arcs I think they should be equal and we all know kefla does not beat a full power lssj broly and ssjb goku was cooking zamasu and ssjb vegeta cooked goku black just in super saiyan blue so I think anime vegito solos just like manga vegito
3:48 he said the thing 🥲👏🏽
I think that this isn’t even a debate let me explain
So assuming that ssbkk goku can slightly keep up with SSJ kefla when we add vegeta into the mix they are gonna walk all over kefla and assuming it’s a non fatigued goku yeah the goat duo for sure wins. So then take that multiply it by like 5-100 and you have vegito, now you tell me who wins
4:33 Honestly the perfect example of main character glaze
He literally used ALL of his power
Great video!
If its the Anime it is close Kefla growth might overwhelmed SSB Vegito but its questionable, if its the Manga Vegito goes all the way.
Yeah manga kefla sorry ngl kale had better results than her fr
If Broly couldn’t close the gap against Gogeta, I doubt Kefla could close the gap against Vegito.
If Vegito figures out the power hax like Gogeta did against Broly, he cooks.
@@maniacslap1623Vegito weak ASF Kefla is on Ui level and vegito fusion don't last long anyways she's way stronger and faster
@@maniacslap1623Kefla fought a way stronger Goku duh
@@nevadalotto560vegito stomps, and your point on time is stupid because if she’s stronger her time would run out quicker
HAPPY NEW YEAR! THANKS FOR THIS ❤❤❤❤
14:53 While it is pretty reasonable to use the argument for shin not being reliable because of his past mistakes and miscalculations, moments like this are sort of in a way the writers trying to give narrative implications and state something. It's more like if a character has shown to be wrong sometimes... however is later used in the story to explain something such as important information or lore of the story, the statement should be reliable. Besides...the anime never makes it seem like shin is wrong or does not portray shin to be wrong about the statement he makes regarding jiren. The anime treats his dialogue in a way that intended for the audience to know a information regarding jiren's power. There is not even any moment regarding this statement where shin is later proven wrong . So this shouldn't taken as a classic shin is stupid and is wrong moment . Not just that .second shin says this , whis states that jiren is truly beyond a god of destruction. At that moment it is pretty clear that judging by the expression of everyone of universe 7 there as well as the grim looking state as well as both the dialogue of shin and whis, jiren was beyond anything they had fought. Also literally this wasn't even jiren at his actual full power. If jiren at his supressed state was actually weaker then vegito blue then nobody would have such a hopeless and terrified expression on their faces and make it seem like they never seen anything like jiren before. It's pretty clear what shin means here. Saying otherwise is more like headcanon .Even if there exists other statements and evidence that puts vegito far ahove kefla, if both of them are scaled inversely purely based on this statement then kefla would slam vegito in strength and speed.
the thing for me is that the potaras multiplier is the same no matter what unless its a rival boost which does apply to vegito and maybe kefla. For someone to prove that kefla is atleast equal to vegito, You would have to say that kale and caulifla are stronger then goku and vegeta from the goku black arc respectively
@@MadeByFearwhich they are unfortunately.
@@om9959
Naw bruh, Goku went 2v1 against them. U think Goku could take himself and Vegeta 2v1 from the Black Arc? I don’t.
Character expressions only mean so much. They also didn’t have the Potaras in the TOP. Imagine feeling Jirens suppressed power and knowing u DONT have Vegito to fall back on. I’d be terrified too. Says nothing about where Jiren actually stood in relation to Vegito.
Kefla easily gettin slammed IMO.
Bro you stated exactly how it goes in the anime and that kefla stomps vegito in speed and strength because it's true. Manga is a different continuity entirely so you cannot include it as an informal bias. Anime present kefla as stronger because she is, manga she is not stronger
Shins statements on vegito being over Beerus in the manga cannot be used as an argument for the anime this is not an argument
Doesn't matter who wins, both fusions would have so much fun fighting each other
14:08 this isn’t really a problem. Shin comments that the power Jiren displayed is above everything they faced before which includes MZ who has relativity to Vegito Blue. When Goku achieves UIO it’s stated that he closed the gap between himself and Jiren that the statement is centered around, and based on what Piccolo says and feats displayed, Kefla should scale above Omen 1 Goku.
Ok and that means nothing obviously kefla wins but that’s like saying if I lift for 10 days it closes the gap between me and Eddie hall it’s still a massive gap it doesn’t mean they’re close in power
@@moussadiarra9247thats a dumb argument jiren literally power up against ui goku as he literally walk through his quick attack that blink away spirit bomb.
Everyone was screaming like how goku forcing jiren to use more of his power.
@@moussadiarra9247no. It shrinks the gap. "Closes" would imply the gap no Inger exists.
Using statements from Shin is interesting when everyone arguing for VB has more sources that are also coincidentally from more credible figures like Vados.
Shin is too weak, lazy, and ignorant of his surroundings to trust as a source for anyone's power in the TOP.
You tried, though. Here's a reward for your efforts. 🍪
12:59 That is a Divine Kamehameha, don't mind what sparking zero calls it. The Xenoverse 2 name is better and its also called divine kamehameha by the fandom wiki.
When it comes to the manga base Vegito one shots🗣️
@@nevadalotto560in the manga gohan fought Kefla, n won. Goku needed ui cause Kefla caught him when he was fatigued, tired. Low on power.
kefla is my favorite fusion in the entirety of db but personally i do think vegito blue has the upper hand, mainly due to just being more powerful as a whole but also the fact that kefla doesnt have full control and experience as a fusion compared to vegito who had fused prior. regardless, very well made video and very informative!
Vegito wins because he is very strategic and he takes more of Vegeta's strategic mind and Goku's strength and that's why Vegito will win if the battle goes on longer and if it's manga Vegito then he wins and if it's anime Vegito it will be equal because manga Vegito is stronger and Goku was also very fatigued as we saw with his outfit and his looks, he looked very fatigued and was tired even if he got his energy back doesn't mean the fatigue will be gone and shin is liar because he didn't even knew anything about potara and he is mostly wrong in statements
Vegito wins
Vegito weak ASF Kefla easily wins she's way stronger and faster
@@nevadalotto560 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@@nevadalotto560caulifa isn’t even close to ss god level. Goku was weakened and still man handling both kale and caulifa in God form. Now you want to say that kefla can beat a fusion composed of two ssb ? Okay whatever you say 👋🏾
@@nevadalotto560 How. SSJB + SSJBKKX20 vs SSj2 + Berserker Kale.
@@nevadalotto560 Goku was weak at that time and shin is mostly wrong/always because he was wrong about many things
1:58 WE SAIYANS HAVE NO LIMITS!
LETS CHARGE TOGETHER AT FULL POWER!
Vegito is from Zamasu saga so he can be weaker than Kefla. But Gogeta Blue from Broly is stronger.
No. Even vegito blue from the goku black arc slaps kefla. You don't seriously think goku and vegeta got THAT much stronger after that right?
@JusKiyoshiThey did lol
@JusKiyoshi Bro SSJ Goku from Android saga was MUCH stronger than Goku from Namek. Goku Blue from Moro saga was much stronger than Goku Blue from ToP. Yes, Gogeta Blue is MUCH stronger than Vegito Blue.
@@CloudSS-m1l how?
@@CloudSS-m1l the timeskip between goku black arc and top was a few months and mind you goku was not training
5:36 why didn’t you include Goku absolutely working zamasu with his feet tho???
Vegito lol stomps
@@salvauzumaki6530 Goku alone was soloing fused zamasu and it took ultra instinct to beat Kefla, Kefla wins and it's not even close
@@nevadalotto560 you do know vegito is half of gokus power , then multiplied right…? So your argument already falls through.
@@nevadalotto560
ssj blue Goku X Vegeta >>> ssj Caulifla x kale, get real😑
@@nevadalotto560 hahahhaha no. Vegito slaps her.
@@nevadalotto560 cap
what I do know is that this fight would be sick as fuck to watch
Yeah bro I solo
Love the OG DBZ faul.. dub music
Sup dawg, wanna join my db scan server?
i personally believe goku x20 should be able to beat Kefla but im casual so idk
Well he was tired he would probably win against ssj2 kefla as ssb alone.
@@reddroid8499 Vegito fusion don't last long at all only for 5 min and he did nothing to fused zamasu while Goku alone was soloing fused zamasu
@@nevadalotto560 thats still mind bogoling to me
i remember hearing that Toriyama only planned for fused Zamasu to be a Goku level threat, but goku black was op even in base
power levels in that arc were all over the place tbh
@@nevadalotto560vegito lasted 40 mins in the manga while 10 in the anime. and the reason why it's because Goku and Vegeta didnt master ssjb untill Broly movie (anime when Goku was transforming into blue that was the moment he showed his mastered blue form) + this argument is irrelevant 5 mins is more than enough for vegito to trash talk on kefla and then finishing her
Kefla realistically vs a non fatigued goku only makes it to ssb where she loses, anyone saying she can beat anything above ssg is straight capping.
Hey can you make a video on
You vs dexter
Plz
Ssj vegito is more than enough to defeat ssj2 kefla💀
"DragonBall fans dont watch or read their own show"
Yeah you didn't watch the show
nah he needs blue
I actually think you are right. In the Broly movie, Gogeta was going toe to toe with Broly in SSJ. And we all know Kefla is no match for Broly in the movie.
@@MER17Tno he doesn’t. The most he would need is ss3 and that’s only because of Kale’s extreme potential and power. Ssb goku alone was pushing ss kefla and he was still heavily weakened from fighting Jiren.
Can someone explained how its stated in in battle of the gods saga that ssg transformation was more powerfull than any other fusion before (aka ssj1 and ssj2) but in TOP even super sayan blue wasnt enough for kefla
01:20 you answered the question
they have the same time limit
@nuzxiety I'm saying back then in both dbs anime/manga vegito's defusion would mean his power is greater
@nuzxiety he said in the video guy said that shorter time defuse faster and vegito defused while kefla didn't. so vegito has more power.
buu saga vegito could beat keyla💀💀
vegito defo takes this.
Do people forget HOW the spirt bomb works? more people = stronger, strength of person does not.
SSJ Vegito clears. Maybe even in base.
Not in base, cause kefla was stated by piccolo to surpassed Goku (UI omen when fighting jiren for the first time) earlier fight, so vegito have to go all out and would stood on top though hard difficulty.
Huge cap.
@@Holychickenwing Kefla easily solos vegito is literally a couple of arcs behind so of course he's weak
1:42 if it was manga vegito would win without question
@@PaNVin_ Manga he still loses Ultimate Gohan and Goku would no diff vegito. Kefla is ultra instinct level vegito is nowhere near that and he couldn't even kill Fused Zamasu if it was Gogeta he would've been ended zamasu in 20 seconds Kefla solos and it's not even close.
I am lowkey going to send a missile to avent's house if kegla wins this
@@Vegitodaaaa Kefla wins and it's not even close
@@nevadalotto560 cap
@@nevadalotto560 rage bait
@@MenthYT How it's common sense that she wins we can debate this
@@nevadalotto560 fatigued goku in UI did good against Kefla. Now if we had a fresh SSB Vegito ( has both goku and vegeta) vs a fresh Kefla , obviously vegito wins.
Happy new years can’t wait to see more content
Vegito Blue from the Goku Black Arc easily defeats Kefla.
we shouldn't forget that vegito is wayy smarter than kefla and we shouldn't forget the fact that vegito didnt show his full power because they defused
vegito blue giving kefla the videl treatment
Vegito, hands down. He wouldn't even need to go SSB to defeat Kefla. Goku could have soloed Kefla without UI Sign if he wasn't fatigued. I don't even see how this is a conversation. Shin, as you pointed out, is not a reliable source, and Piccolo saying that Kefla surpassed Goku's previous energy levels, how would he know that? It's established that no one can sense god ki unless they are trained to sense it. Piccolo wasn't trained, and no, being fused with Kami doesn't count since he was never able to sense Beerus, Goku or Vegeta's energy before until suddenly he could for that one line. This is all just Super's horrible writing and inconsistency with power scaling. For me, the manga is canon where Gohan could defeat Kefla.
It’s amazing how this is still being debated. Caulifa isn’t even close to god level and yet they’re saying kefla can best a ssb vegito 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Never heard of power creep have you
@@dadoggo1513 Yes actually I have. Super's issue is introducing something, god ki, and having to scale new enemies/opponents who shouldn't be at that level to be able to compete. Think about it. Goku absorbed the power of SSJ god during the Battle of Gods movie/arc, meaning his base power became what his SSJ god form was during that movie/arc, sending him soaring beyond what he was at the beginning of the movie. Vegeta caught up through his training with Whis, in addition to all the training and fighting they went through up to the ToP. Now, for opponents to mean anything to them, you'd have to make the argument that every single one of them, Caulifa, Kale, Cabba, are all stronger than what Goku was as a SSJ god during Battle of Gods and could all fight against Beerus the same way Goku did during that arc. That isn't power creeping, that's inconsistency with power scaling, and scaling Goku and Vegeta to such heights that it makes no sense for anyone else to keep up with them.
@@GamingxKnight okay then and even with all that you still consider Vegito to be victor when its the Zamasu arc version
@@dadoggo1513 100% because the scaling given to the universe 6 saiyans is moronic. None of them should be able to keep up with the god forms. Hell, base Goku and Vegeta should be able to take them all on, with Kefla requiring them to transform, not even to god if the power scaling actually made sense. But even with the moronic scaling, Goku alone could take on Kefla if he was starting off fresh, even at her SSJ2 level. So yeah, Vegito beats Kefla hands down.
Honestly... when i went back into it... anyone stronger than heavily supressed jiren that first fought goku that the supreme kai blatently called the strongest person he had ever seen, and he saw infinite zamasu, ssb vegito, and sword of hope trunks.
So... like... the second jiren powers up even a little past the fight against goku, you are stronger than nearly everyone in the future trunks arc
Kefla got not chance
@@talentless9031 Kefla easily no diffs vegito Kefla one shotted a SSB kaiokenx20 goku
@@nevadalotto560Kefla defeating super saiyan blue kaioken doesn't mean that she could beat Vegito. Vegito is far stronger than Goku.
@@nevadalotto560Vegito's fusion was only shortened by how powerful he was. Technically, due to the tournament of power only lasting 48 minutes, Kefla didn't last 5 minutes either. Besides, Vegito was overpowering Fused Zamasu, so he would definitely overpower Kefla.
@@nevadalotto560Vegito is the one who wins, not Kefla.
@@StareachValcin have you heard of power creep Kefla solos
At the end,A half dead base form goku block a attack from jiren with one hand that knock down golden freeza and 17 at the same time.half dead Base goku tank the same attack that one tap ssbkk20 goku from the beginning of top.
This ignoring the fact that jiren used the power that defect spirit bomb is already far beyond vegeto.Ssb goku later fought a far stronger jiren. Saiyens grows at a massive rate when pushed. Hell even in goku black arc goku overpowrred fused zamasu blast even though he was weaker than black indivisually before.
A small detail is that Shin never said that Jiren's energy was the strongest, the literal translation says different, but not stronger.
This debate just shows that power scaling in DB is overall dogshit ☠️
People still trying to back Kefla like she wasn't fighting an already fatigued Goku.
Being able to potentially one-shot a UI Sign Goku (Let alone a Goku who was STILL getting used to it at the time) isn't as impressive as people make it out to be when you think about it. And remember, she was only given that statement AFTER essentially using that last desperation attack.
Full power, even base Vegito would pressure her into Super Saiyan.
It might be a convenient plot, but the fact Vegito blue was so strong he couldn't stay fused for more than a few minutes and Kefla could stay fused until she was literally Kamehameha'd out of it is all I need to know.
the fight explained in math:
carrot + vegetable > kale + cauliflower
carrots are better vegetables
kales and cauliflowers are mid
Vegito effortlessly clears. But because it’s the anime he defuses anyway
Nah
Vegito blue slams kefla and it shouldn’t even be a debate
Isn't the back tingles just how the u6 saiyans deschribed the feeling of ssj?
10:20 Goku charges up to full power in his strongest form and fires a blast while struggling and grunting. I dunno why you would say he’s surpressed. Especially because Vegeta literally warns Goku that Kale could eliminate him. It seems a bit biased to say “Goku blue was able to push back fused Zamasu because “he miraculously got 100s of times stronger”” but that when Kale shows a similar feat, it’s just because Goku was holding back, when all signs point the other way
Just because they're tired doesn't mean they're weaker, Blue Goku does infinitely better against Jiren on round 2. He was also relative to a Vegeta who had no straining fights beforehand
What kind of comment is that? Yes it does. If you’re exhausted, you can’t possibly operate at maximum capacity. This is true even in real life.
@@danielendless Facts Kefla solos 💪💪💪💪💪
@@nevadalotto560 cap
Nah
Goku even in ssjg with full energy beats.
damn, its 2025 and people still think vegito defused because hes too powerful and not because of the imperfect blue and the final kamehameha attempt
@@draw_neos-5064 Facts Kefla easily solos
Vegito should easily get the dub not to mention he's got kaioken if he needs it and who knows since he's stronger he could theoretically stack it higher than x20
If we compete like this, gogeta is strongest fusion of all time
What if a dead person and a alive person fuse? (Dead you alive vegeta)
Is this even a debate?
3:08 I felt his voice leave by how in-credible (that cannot be believed) this was
The problem I have with the shin statement is we know from the Granola arc that Beerus does train and get stronger every second so even if Vegito was relative to Beerus' power at one point Shin's statement likely no longer holds up now due to Beerus clearly being stronger than he was in past arcs
Why do you say "Ultra Instinct Sign" instead of just "Ultra Instinct" or "Unmastered Ultra Instinct"?
...im confused how this became a matchup.
putting vegito (goku black arc) and Kefla (TOP) is kind of unfair as when goku and vegeta were in TOP I think they were stronger than they were in the goku black arc, so if the TOP goku and vegeta fuse into vegito then vegito would probably win
Vegito compared to kelfa is like a dinosaur compared to a newborn human baby. Why is this even a debate I have no idea.
It’s tough to say because caulifla is definitely a step behind Goku, but Kale at full power was walking through a ssblue kamehameha like it was water. The strength that even just full power berserker kale showed put her stronger than ss2 kefla which doesn’t really make sense unless they lose the legendary super saiyan power when they fuse. Even if they were even tho we’re comparing ss2 to Ssblue, theres is no comparison
people forget goku was literally fighting kefla on like super low energy dude was on ultra battery saver at that point XD
I can agree with this.
Vegito at the time was Goku black arc, Meaning they had the imperfect blue and their energy consumption was horrible. This is the same fusion of a Goku and Vegeta who at the time were way weaker then Goku black and somehow zamasu that they needed to escape twice and have 3 Zenkai boosts, and a fusion to even start having a challenge yet never defeated Zamasu because of healing hacks.
Now skip to the TOP, Goku and Vegeta already have had a few Zenkai's since and have perfected blue, Goku during the whole time after the Jiren fight was exhausted beyond measure and had a very small power boost from Frieza.
Jiren was stated to be way stronger then his God and this was the Suppressed Jiren after the first UI fight. Goku later at the Near end of the T.O.P IN base extremely tired due to being pushed into Zenkai range numerous times could deflect Jiren's POWERED up blast in BASE.
Let's switch to Kefla. This was after the First UI fight and after tons of altercations with other fighters, Goku was once again pushed and gained a Zenkai including UI, and this Goku would've rivaled Jiren's 10% power which once again is beyond the his gods power level by TONS. This Kefla in terms of raw strength is way stronger then the first UI-sign Goku who fought toe to toe with Suppressed Jiren and Second Ui-sign goku and could give Jiren a hard time at Jiren's 10% power.
Vegito at the time is compared to Beerus who is Stronger than Jiren's God by a small bit, But Jiren alone is stated to be WAY more powerful than his God meaning he should be way stronger then Beerus. Vegito in conclusion would be weaker then Goku and Vegeta at the Near end of the T.O.P, weaker then Jiren at 10% power, and Kefla at Super Sayain 2 due to the jump in time and mastery of skills and because of whats stated.
Wait, so this is Black arc Vegito blue vs ToP Kefla? I see why this COULD be a debate, but regardless whether their current or from their respective arcs, Vegito should win easily.
I would say Vegito is the strongest fusion in general. He’s the only canon Fusion that was so strong he shortened the Fusion time cause he was using so much power
Indeed vegtio is a powerhouse.
1:43
"tourmanent of power"💔💔💔💔
All i know, gogeta would never let this slide
since fusions are at least a 40000 times multiplier in dbs, manga Vegito blue one shots Beerus. (Beerus has never shown any feats close to being 800 million times stronger than Goku.)
potara doesnt really have a fixed multi like 40000, the most consistent interpretation is (strongest of A + strongest of B)*100 = potara fusions base power
Vegito Blue is a bit of a stretch I'd say, but I wouldn't put it past ToP Kefla to be about on par with a hypothetical SSJ1/2 Vegito from the mid-to-late Black arc in power (talent and experience would likely weigh a fight in favour of Vegito though).
U6 tournament base Vegeta was evenly matched with U6 tournament base Cabba, according to Vegeta himself. Whether Cabba got any stronger in the time between U6 tournament and ToP... Probably?
Either way, Caulifla is stated to be stronger than Cabba with more latent potential, putting pre-ToP base Caulifla somewhere ahead of U6 tournament base Vegeta, but *probably* not by a whole lot.
While impossible to quantify, add in pre-ToP training, any power improvements obtained during the ToP, as well as from the training from fighting Goku all-out, you're probably looking at base Caulifla and Kale at the time of fusion sitting somewhere around early-to-mid-Black arc base Goku and Vegeta levels.
Assuming the potara fusion power increase is roughly similar between Vegito and Kefla (good luck quantifying if not), ToP base Kefla should thus sit somewhere around a hypothetical early-mid-Black-arc base Vegito in power, same would go for SSJ1 and SSJ2 forms respectively.
Add in whatever unquantifiable amount of power boost from Kefla harnessing Kale's "infinite" power well, the power-up session she had with Goku, as well as from fighting Goku, then yeah, SSJ2 Kefla would probably sit around mid-to-late-Black-arc SSJ2 Vegito.
14:17 you missed he still went ssj3 which drained him more
Yeah for .5 seconds
Btw vegito fan boys shin said that ui goku from fighting jiren the first time the strongest thing he seen meaning ui sign goku>vegito blue
And goku said if she touches him once hes cooked
@@CypherGogeta2011 Another brainless gogeta glazer simp vegito slams kefla lil bro its not even debate 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Kela's personality completely disappear when she fusion with Caulifla. it is like Caulifla absorb Kela's to get her power, not fusion.
10:10 this makes her slight above Krillin
Crazy that kefla was a lssj2
It is but if kefla can last for long she has a chance because she gets stronger every second of being fused with Kale
Kefla is getting clapped here
Thanks for the effort bro wish I could donate but I don't got no money 😅
super scalling makes sense, videos like this one are the reason why people say it doesn't.
nobody in the tournament of power is even close to vegito blue level (aside jiren and ui goku)
not saying its a bad video at all but overanalyzing dialogues over feats doesn't help much.
Vegito blue power was so great that they defused from it instead of an hour. Kefla didn’t defuse even though she was letting out that much power. That says enough.
@@saiyanarmy9345 Bruh her potaras are better vegito potaras defuse quick while hers don't Kefla easily solos duh
@ potara is potara so there no difference unless.
@@saiyanarmy9345 Vegito fusion don't last long hence why Kefla solos
And she's way stronger and faster needing able to blitz Goku in base form and even one shotting a ssb kaiokenx20 Goku, and also being stated to one shot Ultra Instinct Goku as well Kefla solos and it's not even close.
@@nevadalotto560 that’s a weaken goku super saiyan blue kk20. If he was at full power then he would’ve had the fight in control to begin with. Vegito blue has to conserve energy because that’s how powerful he is otherwise he will defuse. Kefla raw power is great but that’s was just adrenaline at best.
I hate the “back in the day characters” can’t be “modern characters” LMAOO
Current base goku slams hypothetical ssj3 Kefla