Thank you so much for finally clarifying something for me. I have read translations of both Xenophon Anabasis and his Symposium and I’ve only assumed these were by the same Xenophon was because nobody ever said “not to be confused with the OTHER Xenophon...”. But these two works are so different from each other I felt I had little evidence beyond his name that it was the same person. When a modern historian or translator talks about Xenophon, they tend to reference only one or the other depending on whether they are oriented towards military or philosophy, with nobody bothering to mention Xenophon wrote about both. So thanks again for clearing that up, it’s bothered me a long time!
* Artaxerxes II drives up with his charriot clanking beer bottles on nis figure tops. * "Waaaariooors come out to play. Waaaariooors come out to plaaaaaay."
The Cyropeadia is about Cyrus the great and Cyrus the younger. You can add that Aristotle had made a text about Xenophon's son in The Gryllus (this text is lost but we have some fragments of it).
I never thought of Xenophon as any "special read". In Greece, at least in my times as a pupil back in the 90s we had Xenophon as standard curriculum, so it surprises me that Classicists would consider Xenophon as anymore niche than, say Ceasar. In Greece Xenophon is considered, next to Herodotus and Thucydides one of the big 3 historians of the Classical Era. Xenophon is this case of a man who was both a weathered soldier and a writer which makes his text even more interesting. Plus he writes in a wonderful antiquated style which shows his education, and even if in Anabasis he writes about himself, he tries to do it in a way that does not make him appear as egocentric - it is just that he happened to take over command of the army when the generals were murdered by Persians.
Great video, allways nice to learn more about the man. I've read the Anabasis a short while ago and cannot wait for the deep dive into it, such a great story.
I got into Xenophon after seeing the film 'The Warriors' in the late '70s.. A classic in its own right, the story was taken directly from the Anabasis.. I found a copy in an old bookstore in Brisbane, and Xenophon has been one of my favourite historical characters ever since...
Outside of the military historical niche, Xenophon’s Anabasis also shows very well how debate, democratic decision making and speeches were inherent parts of Ancient Greek culture, even in a more hierarchical military context.
Oh yeah, 28k!! 🥂 🎉 I have a suggestion... It's up to you, but I think it looks and sounds better as one word: i.e. just stylize it as moaninc instead of MoAn Inc.. People will still wonder, "What does 'moaninc' mean? Is her name Monique?" And they will keep browsing and watching until they get an answer. I.e. it still draws people in. Your explanation will be the same: Modern Ancients but you wanted a brand name and moaninc sounded chique/stylish... and it does! 😎
Xenophon was a brilliant warrior, writer, philosopher, but paradoxically very conservative. He was really the ultimate spartan fanboy. Nevertheless a great figure in my opinion.
Translation makes a big difference. I read the Landmark edition of helenica ages ago and HATED it, despite the nice maps, because of the dry translation. Then I picked up the penguin one and loved it.
@@Mr.Softy2457 - same, I hope the series continues, so many things could get that treatment with the maps and appendixes. I just wish the translations weren't so dry (I read Caesar, Arian and hellenica with them and the translations all seemed to have this issue, I thought it was the original texts at first but seeing another translation of xenophon changed my mind)
Just got to the bit of Diorodus that mentions the Anabasis (book thirteen) and it's....rather different to xenophon's account. Wonder what the source was since Diodorus wrote about three centuries later! He says Sparta directly aided Cyrus (maybe that annoyed the athenians?) EDIT: he eventually admits Ephorus is his source
for anyone out there asking "wait, didnt the Greeks and Persians hate each other?", Xenophon lived at a time when the (long) war between Sparta & Athens had just ended, and a lot of soldiers were out of work - these highly-trained and -disciplined greek soldiers were man-for-man better than just about anything else on the battlefield, and the other powers round the Med would hire them as a heavy infantry shock troop to augment their own (relatively weaker and less effective) soldiers - there were many battles that had contingents of Greek hoplites on both sides.
Gryllus was declared a heretic for sacrificing animals on a slotted metal grate instead of throwing them directly on the fire. (Citations are not below.)
More correctly an upland walk from Mesopotamia, north from the great city of Babylon, though the mountains to about Trebizond the Greek city on the Black Sea. The Cyropedia is about Cyrus great upbringing not about his teachings.
What a nice round up, as I just started reading Xenophon's Hellenika (in translation).
Perfect timing!
Thank you so much for finally clarifying something for me. I have read translations of both Xenophon Anabasis and his Symposium and I’ve only assumed these were by the same Xenophon was because nobody ever said “not to be confused with the OTHER Xenophon...”. But these two works are so different from each other I felt I had little evidence beyond his name that it was the same person. When a modern historian or translator talks about Xenophon, they tend to reference only one or the other depending on whether they are oriented towards military or philosophy, with nobody bothering to mention Xenophon wrote about both. So thanks again for clearing that up, it’s bothered me a long time!
My favorite part of the Anabasis is when Cyrus the Younger ends his rousing speech with "CAN YOU DIG IT??!!"
* Artaxerxes II drives up with his charriot clanking beer bottles on nis figure tops. *
"Waaaariooors come out to play. Waaaariooors come out to plaaaaaay."
Xenophon lived a fascinating life. I am super excited for the full Anabasis!
:)))
I just found your channel, and I love it! All the best from Greece!
Thank you so much!
The Cyropeadia is about Cyrus the great and Cyrus the younger. You can add that Aristotle had made a text about Xenophon's son in The Gryllus (this text is lost but we have some fragments of it).
I never thought of Xenophon as any "special read". In Greece, at least in my times as a pupil back in the 90s we had Xenophon as standard curriculum, so it surprises me that Classicists would consider Xenophon as anymore niche than, say Ceasar. In Greece Xenophon is considered, next to Herodotus and Thucydides one of the big 3 historians of the Classical Era.
Xenophon is this case of a man who was both a weathered soldier and a writer which makes his text even more interesting. Plus he writes in a wonderful antiquated style which shows his education, and even if in Anabasis he writes about himself, he tries to do it in a way that does not make him appear as egocentric - it is just that he happened to take over command of the army when the generals were murdered by Persians.
The Anabasis is the only classical work I’ve finished on my own volition… sigh
He definitely seems like someone you’d like to have a beer with!
Or a barbecue as he, for sure, sacrificed a lot of livestock in the Anabasis...
make it a seaside barbecue hehe😂
Time to read Herodotus
@@alexcheng1560 Θάλαττα! θάλαττα!
Great video, allways nice to learn more about the man. I've read the Anabasis a short while ago and cannot wait for the deep dive into it, such a great story.
Thank you so much for bringing this topic!!! 💞 from Greece
🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼
I do enjoy your videos.
Regards, Grillus
I got into Xenophon after seeing the film 'The Warriors' in the late '70s.. A classic in its own right, the story was taken directly from the Anabasis.. I found a copy in an old bookstore in Brisbane, and Xenophon has been one of my favourite historical characters ever since...
No.. you watched a recent video by a wonderful man(rip). The man… Michael Sugrue…🤷♂️
Lovely. I learn a lot again.
Outside of the military historical niche, Xenophon’s Anabasis also shows very well how debate, democratic decision making and speeches were inherent parts of Ancient Greek culture, even in a more hierarchical military context.
Oh yeah, 28k!! 🥂 🎉 I have a suggestion... It's up to you, but I think it looks and sounds better as one word: i.e. just stylize it as moaninc instead of MoAn Inc.. People will still wonder, "What does 'moaninc' mean? Is her name Monique?" And they will keep browsing and watching until they get an answer. I.e. it still draws people in. Your explanation will be the same: Modern Ancients but you wanted a brand name and moaninc sounded chique/stylish... and it does! 😎
Anabasis is so thrilling but I also recommend his Hiero the Tyrant.
As someone who was in the Navy for 5 years he's a pretty interesting guy. I think he wrote a book that the movie the warriors was based off of.
I have never heard of him so I must get some books 📚 on him asap love your Aussie family friend John ❤❤❤
Xenophon was a brilliant warrior, writer, philosopher, but paradoxically very conservative. He was really the ultimate spartan fanboy. Nevertheless a great figure in my opinion.
Brilliant warrior? Maybe a tactician...
In what way is this a paradox? A majority of the brilliant warriors, writers and philosophers through history were deeply conservative.
Name one conservative philosopher, and I don't mean Heidegger. Or Trump...
@@aaronaragon7838Burke, Hobbes, Plutarch. Also Trump is not a conservative, he is a right-wing populist.
Gryllus just can't catch a break, can he?
😂🫠
Translation makes a big difference. I read the Landmark edition of helenica ages ago and HATED it, despite the nice maps, because of the dry translation. Then I picked up the penguin one and loved it.
I loved the landmark hellenica
I wish there was a landmark polybius
@@Mr.Softy2457 - same, I hope the series continues, so many things could get that treatment with the maps and appendixes. I just wish the translations weren't so dry (I read Caesar, Arian and hellenica with them and the translations all seemed to have this issue, I thought it was the original texts at first but seeing another translation of xenophon changed my mind)
Which translation are you going to be following?
Congratulations for your work!
Xenophon's wierd "just don't talk about people he doesn't like" thing is baffling, he just doesn't talk about thebes leader xD
Just got to the bit of Diorodus that mentions the Anabasis (book thirteen) and it's....rather different to xenophon's account. Wonder what the source was since Diodorus wrote about three centuries later! He says Sparta directly aided Cyrus (maybe that annoyed the athenians?)
EDIT: he eventually admits Ephorus is his source
for anyone out there asking "wait, didnt the Greeks and Persians hate each other?", Xenophon lived at a time when the (long) war between Sparta & Athens had just ended, and a lot of soldiers were out of work - these highly-trained and -disciplined greek soldiers were man-for-man better than just about anything else on the battlefield, and the other powers round the Med would hire them as a heavy infantry shock troop to augment their own (relatively weaker and less effective) soldiers - there were many battles that had contingents of Greek hoplites on both sides.
❤❤❤
Gryllus was declared a heretic for sacrificing animals on a slotted metal grate instead of throwing them directly on the fire. (Citations are not below.)
Θάλασσα, Θάλασσα, Θάλασσα!
The irony that his name is part of the word xenophobic when he fought for the Persians is..well..I suppose ironic is the best description?
(Xenophon) if not for the compulsive peteracy most hellens would approve of the agoge
correction "The Return "....is the movie
🫡
Isn’t Xenophon the creature in Alien?
Certainly sounds alien.
(I'll get me coat.)
Those are "Xenomorphs". "Xeno" just means "foreign" and "morph" is "form"/"shape" making a "Foreignform", an "Alien".
@@KarlKarsnark It was a joke...
@@KarlKarsnark no. I’m pretty sure they’re called Xenophons.
@@JamieAlice92 Well, go and rewatch the movies.
"It's the only way to be sure"
More correctly an upland walk from Mesopotamia, north from the great city of Babylon, though the mountains to about Trebizond the Greek city on the Black Sea. The Cyropedia is about Cyrus great upbringing not about his teachings.
check out the trailer for the movie The Odessey ....it's what u think it is....