The Crit House - Masters - Vivian Maier
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2023
- We are launching a new segment called The Crit House Masters.
In this episode, we bring in two master photographers to discuss the work of a renowned master and take a deep dive into their work and process.
Vivian Maier was a nanny who took photographs throughout her life without showing them to anyone, not even those closest to her. It wasn't until after she passed that her work became known to the larger world. She is now one of the biggest names in photography. How did she do such great work without the benefit of input from others, education, and guidance? Is it fair that her work is being presented to the world without her guidance to represent her ideas?
Today's panelists are Neal Rantoul, a longtime educator, and photographer, and Lou Jones, a lifetime professional photographer.
Neal Rantoul
nealrantoul.com
@nealrantoulstudio
Lou Jones
www.fotojones.com
@loujonesstudio
Vivian Maier
www.vivianmaier.com
@vivianmaierarchive
One of the most interesting facts about Vivian’s work is that, since thousands of rolls of exposed film was found in the storage facility undeveloped, a huge portion of her work was actually unseen even by herself. The psychology of this alone boggles the mind.
Right?!? The whole story is fascinating
Her reward is the process of creating the image. Seeing the subject, choosing how to present it, framing it, decisions of exposure, letting her past creative history informing the moment. It isn't the Decisive Moment, it's the path to the decision that absorbs her introverted nature, not the extroverted life of display.
Thank you. Well said.
Vivian Maier's collection is incredible. Worthy of being noted as one of the Great photographers of our time... Great overview
Hakim, thank you. She is a fascinating figure. And truly great work.
I just became aware of her. As I look at her work I'm already in an excited mindset knowing the whole intriguing story behind her. It's like my mind is already in an elevated state. I'm in a constant state of anticipating something extraordinary. I am quite sure though that I would love all the images even if I didn't know the back story........really love them.
Same here!
Great episode. VM could speak 2 languages lived in France , lived in NY, her mothers friend was a photographer, we know she visited galleries from her photos, she was an obsessive reader, lived in as a nanny with some wealthy articulate families, traveled the world, she left over 100k images - reverse the camera we know where she was 100k times almost social media like, she left hundreds of items in the storage it was almost like a museum to her, just points and questions, NY in the 50’s could be rough you can see where she went , its recorded she punched a guy in the face! Love u VM cheers
Antony, she was an impressive woman. Thanks for watching and thank you for your thoughtful comments.
That’s so very true. Good point.
One of the greatest street photographers I've ever seen. I remember when those negatives were first found, and so thankful they went to search for who she was.........priceless. Just re-watched "Finding Vivian Maier" again this morning. Grateful that young man had creative curiosity.....
Agreed. She is amazing.
Why isn’t Maier simply a great photographer?
@@Jasper7182009 She is......she is.
@@Jasper7182009Because.. She was a woman, and didn’t care about being "famous" or "recognised".
She didn't even care about having most of films developed!
This was such an insightful talk about the work of Vivian Maier. As a street photographer myself I have a story to share. I was in Paris with my wife, armed with a small fujifilm xt30 and a pretty compact lens, found a great picture to take of a beautiful gothic cathedral in the background and many people in the foreground. I took a few pictures when a young man of North African heritage and a few of his African friends started making threatening gestures at me - I assume thinking I was taking pictures of them... I pointed at the church behind them, but the main guy started approaching me rather quickly... (no police in sight) kind of a sketchy part of Paris... I grabbed my wife's hand and walked and told her not to look behind (biblical reference). We walked away fast and nothing happened. In today's world, some of these major cities are no longer as safe as they once were. This experience completely made me rethink street photography. I am a New Yorker, so I am used to taking shots in big cities and normally don't think twice... this experience in Paris really has made me think twice. However, I love cities and capturing the many stories of people that work and live in those cities... so I will head back out there but please everyone becareful.
Mark, yes the world is changing. I'm fortunate to not have had a similar incident. Yet.
Hey, Haven't you seen her Photography Book on a shelf in one of the other videos with massive amounts of photographic books that she owned? It blew my mind away, that she had owned these books even. She studied all the greats.
We were not aware of that when this episode was recorded. It's an excellent point.
Vivian is a magnificent photographer!!!
Very true
I enjoy her work. I like every photographer that I see today. If it wasn't for all of their work I wouldn't enjoy photography today. Every artist is talented, and deserves to be shown as a role model for the next generation taking up a camera, a brush, or a microphone. We need more examples that anyone can, and should take up a great hobby. I have been taking photographs since I was 8 years old. I'm 57, and still love it. What I enjoyed about her work is how she captured the daily every day moments from the past. I love her work. I love photography. It's a time machine recorder. I enjoy your video. Thank you for sharing.
@normapadro420 thanks so much. Her biography and place in history is fascinating.
I have videos that I made and have completely forgotten 50 years ago. Every once in a while I see myself in a mirror that is proof that I was really there!!! A time machine for sure---what a gift to remember special times of youth and fun.
Working in complete isolation and privacy, exploring the world in her mind and capturing the moments of life. Her eye is incredible. To me she is one of the greats. When you browse her work, she captured such deep understanding and emotion and invaluable moments of time. A true artist she went through life without any expectation her images and hence her view of the world would never be known. What an incredible story.
We agree 100%
Great video. An observation looking at the photos is how clean of distraction they all were. I know there were not so many neon signs and plastic bags back then but, I also know street photography and how difficult it is on the street to frame a shot without elements in the scene that distract, clutter and impede.
Thank you. Great point.
VM is definitely one of the greats. How I wish I could have met her.
You and me both. Thanks.
Great formal structure, framing and insight into human nature brought out by exciting inner qualities Vivian spent years thinking about. It was all hers and, for Vivian, stays that way.
Thanks Dan.
No one better than VM at getting the decisive moment, and no one better at the intimately revealing street portrait.
She was good.
Vivian would humbly disagree.
Great conversation thank you. I particularly liked Lou's concept of 'waiting for months', very interesting. That challenge of getting to know a space and community well, and also pushing through feelings of 'taking it for granted' or being 'bored', in order to be able to see something spectacular that also looks natural. Reminds me of the idea of sudden awakening in zen buddhism, where after doing the same chores and meditations for years you suddenly see the mundane differently. But for me the exercise of looking through the frame of a camera is a bit more enjoyable than a lot of monastic chores haha.
I don’t think street photographers should be shamed for not getting all up into people’s personal spaces. Social media has completely changed that. Plus the best street photography is more about the composition, whether the subject is facing you, behind you, close or far. That’s why I believe Alex Webb is the best street photographer, imo. This notion of get super close and take a shot of them staring at you is being a true street photographer is ridiculous.
I feel like there is room for both. It doesn't have to be one or the other. As long as it's good.
This is a great conversation. One thing I like to think about is the way that she seems to connect with the subjects she photographs on the street. Tho she was intensely private, (and never viewed her work after she shot it) she has to have some level of ability to approach and have her subjects let her in. She was opinionated and seen as very odd for the time, but I imagine she was quite a character who must have felt at home approaching people in the street, perhaps it’s where she felt most comfortable. She has video reels and tapes where she interviews people at the market, she knows how to get reactions and she does not shy away. I don’t think of her as a lonely quiet person in her youth, I would say she was just deeply misunderstood for her era.
How I wish we could have heard her speak about her methods, but the blank slate that we have adds some allure to her story and work. What I feel most is her connection, she captures emotion, captures irony, showcases injustices and she felt strongly about it because it SHINES thru.
Great points and input. Thanks
I find this discussion very fascinating but I do want to say that the 50s, especially in New York, had a lot more diversity in many ways than we have right now. The second thing is that people were not so used to being photographed or even shocked by the fact that a photographer was taking a picture of a wall of a building. SO they just let it happen and if it was a person involved in the shit, they didn't pose unless they wanted to or she indicated she wanted them to. Well now people are on 24/7 and they conduct their lives as poseurs rather than living their lives. So I think the subject matter she had was so much richer than we have nowadays.
I will say she had a definite eye 👁️for seeing the whole of the picture and it does have a back layer & the front layer which is often the people or animals but it has a bilateral quality to it as well. SO you have to look right, left, right again and up and down. Frankly, that's how I take pictures. I just use my cell phone and I'm definitely NOT as committed as she is but I know when I take one, that what I'm thinking in my head is that what & when that composition appears, it's like a still life or a "nature morte", as the French call it. AS for being thought out, I don't think it is in the usual sense of the word , in large part because she is self-taught, but I think it's an instinct she has and of course it involves the brain and thinking but the instinct is there she knows it when she's got it and then she clicks on the camera.
I'd be curious to know of the hundred thousand fotis, did she throw out any or did she keep everything and and not judge. I think that would be fascinating to know or to try to Intuit. Unfortunately, she NEVER spoke so we can't know from her OWN lips. So, using the French definition, she caught a slice of life and she froze it as occurs in death & she clicked just in time to capture its live quality.
Thanks for these great insights
To Mr Jones point. I grew up in the 50s and I can confirm that the attitude towards photography was vastly different than today. The points he made were quite true. I have maintained for years this was a vital component in the photography of the day.
Thanks. Yes, these time are different from even a few years ago. Things are changing fast.
Easier back in the day ain't quite right to say. But the way things have changed today. It is far harder to take great images in this day and age, because some people are really against it or aggressive about taking their photo. So you have to be far more than a photographer. Which is a shame because there is so much beauty and interesting characters to shoot out on the street.
I am so enjoying this The Crit House video and seeing so many images I have not seen. Thank you.
I'm so glad!
I was told of her some years ago and the story was very short. I was told there was a lady who in her spare time from being a nanny would go out on the street and take pictures of everything and anything and her negatives were discovered after her death and she and her work became very famous. I am now fascinated with her and her work the more I learn about her. I would have loved to have known her.
I think many of us would have like to know her better. Thank you.
One of the best videos in this channel. I have learnt more than a lot. Thank you so much Jeff! I'm very much looking forward to something like this.
Glad you enjoyed it! We have some good stuff coming soon.
Wow. This is amazing! Please stay with it. This will be found!!
Thanks so much.
Gentlemen, an excellent presentation. One thing that everyone failed to mention was her ability to nail the exposure setting. I don't believe she used a light meter, I don't think she bracketed her shot, she nailed the exposure. There is detail in the highlights and shadows of most, if not all, of her photos. Even the image of 'Alfred Hitchcock' on the ferry, detail in the darkness of his coat. She truly was a talent. By the way I still shoot film and my Rollei 3.5 Schneider is my favorite.
Thanks Pokertyme. You are correct about her ability to meter. It was impressive.
Loved this, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This discussion was excellent. VM is my favorite photographer.
We're so happy you liked it.
I have enjoyed the show very much. I love Viviam and I have been lucky enough to see two exhibitions here in Barcelona. Greetings
Glad you enjoyed it!
great conversation! thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you! This is a great way of exploring photography
Glad you think so! Thanks
This was really cool. You should do more of these discussions.
Dean, that's the plan. Thanks
Thank You for the great conversation.
Our pleasure!
Great video!!
Glad you enjoyed it
I've been using 35mm analog cameras for decades. Now, because of her, I'm dusting off my Flexaret medium format camera and starting to use it now.
A change of format always seems to result in new ways of seeing. I hope it goes well.
First. I’m willing to bet that the kid on the bike is not being slammed by his (we assume) mother, but she is consoling him in some way. Second, I’m getting where those who claim condescension are picking that up. I feel there is a wonderful appreciation for this woman and her photography. Early on it is said that Vivian is in a category all her own. And I couldn’t agree more.
I think that sometimes academic discussions of art can seem condescending. Especially when there's an element of critique. She is truly an amazing photographer with a unique story in the history of photography. We didn't do this video to talk about how great she is, though she is great. We took on the discussion to consider her and her work in the context of the other great photographers. How does she compare to Henri Cartier Bresson, Gary Winogrand, Robert Frank and others at that stratospheric level?
@@TheCritHouse the key word missing from my comment is Not. As in I’m not getting where those who claim you gents were being condescending. I fully understood what you were trying to get at in your opening question to your guest. I was surprised to see the number of comments that seemed to missed the point of this discussion. Excellent episode in my humble opinion.
@@Menapho Thanks.
I really enjoyed this
We're glad. Come back for more.
Great episode Jeff
Thanks, man. It was fun to do. More coming.
Great episode, Jeff. This new series is very interesting: I'll be looking forward to seeing more, especially about masters that are less 'advertised' in social media such as Dayanita Singh. As for Vivian Maier, while I find a lot of her work interesting, I am not comfortable at all with the fact that it has been marketed by a third person without any wish on her part for it to be shown to anyone. Had she bequeathed it to a critic or something, then we would at least know she was fine with it being shown. As is, there's some ethical issues I struggle to cope with.
Vittorio, I agree. It's an ethical challenge. Hopefully enough people will look at it, aside from the "handlers" who can bring something to the images. It would be a shame to ignore the work, however.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Great discussion
Thanks, Richard.
Sweet direction for the Crit House, well done!
Thanks! We're learning a lot with these deeper dives.
@@TheCritHouse and the Vivian Meyer is spectacular!
...is it spooky, when i look at my own introduction to the silver? How many light artists approach their domain in a similar fashion to that we see here? i saw something of this in my own work on the streets of Liverpool in the later 70s, it blows my away. I gave up the cameras for teaching English in Germany and I'm soooo glad I'm not on the streets these days.
It is different on the streets these days. But there are some great things to do with photography. Challenges help creators.
She was living in New York in 1955 ... so possibly saw the "Family Of Man" exhubition ... and that may have been enough to have inspired her 🤷♂️
James, that is true. It's one of her great mysteries - not knowing of her inspirations.
Let's remember that Maier and Bresson showed interest, compassion and understanding of their subjects. Most (so-called street photographers) are just just trying to "grab' a shot. I wonder what Bresson ,Maier et al would say?
Good point. The world will never know.
Truly the best photographer of the 20th century. She would have been a major portraitist - had she felt the need for that. But she enjoyed anonymity and poverty, respected and loved those things and above all knew a deep sense of belonging with it. That is clear by how often her presence in the scene is shown. If you want money and/or fame then by all means exhibit. If you don't, why bother? I have to wonder how many talented people have kept their gifts to themselves alone. Bet Ms. Maier wasn't the only one. And I am all in favor of having all her work out there somewhere for everyone to see. She would have hated the dollars and cents fight over her work above all else. But I think she would have been fine with displaying it - after all she took people's pictures without permission most of the time so why not show her work without her blessing?
I think of that a lot - about how many truly great photographers are out there, unsee and unknown to the rest of us. There have to be a few.
It seems to be universally true that when artists are poor and struggling their work is always better than after they get rich and famous. But I was talking about all of the arts from music, painting - all the arts.@@TheCritHouse
I’ve always been interested to know how much she saw. What was her feedback?
Same with me. It's amazing that she could be so good without getting input from others. Some people are just naturals. I am not.
That was really interesting; however, Rolleiflex were produced in 55mm, 75mm, 80mm, and 135mm
Thanks for the input.
I think she is better than these two critics , according to the pictures that were demonstrated
She's one of the greats, without question.
quick decision about the frame, shooting from the hip and being a woman helps in being more anonymous and receiving trust from the people in the street
Harry, those things certainly have their impact. She was something special.
"Amateur" is someone who does a task for the love of it. It is in contrast to "professional" who does it for commercial reasons. "Commodity" is a word used to describe something that is created to be sold or the object itself. It in in contrast to "gift." Vivian was an amateur who created gifts.
Well stated, Stanford.
A certain Frenchman named Henri Cartier is in love with you Viv' - highly recommend the Heaven cafe..
A very good discussion. I just have one critique and that would be that in one of your past videos with Alex Kilbee and Sean Tucker you immediately mentioned Vivian Maier as not one „great photographer“ and in this video you agree in the discussion with the greatness of her photography. I think you should have more of your own opinion and not be influenced by the position of your guests. I think Alex Kilbee does not know much about photography if he considers Vivian Maier as a mediocre photographer, but this is just my opinion. Other than that I think your channel is very good and intresting.
Denis, it's a very good point. And, by the way, you have an impressive memory. Perhaps I can be a little clearer on that thought. I think Vivian Maier has had a huge influence on the world of her photography, which is in part due to the images themselves, but even more because of her story and how her work was discovered and shown to the world. She is a very good (great) photographer. I do not place her at the same level as the greats, Cartier Bresson, Winogrand, Friedlander, Kertesz.... Her work is very compelling and her story worthy of discussion. We can learn from her in ways we have been able to from some of those greats. Thanks for the excellent comment.
@@TheCritHouseHm, I really wonder where and how you draw the differentiation line between the mentioned “greats” and VM? Her style is different. More unobtrusive, less self assuring. Is it a consequence of her shy persona (that she most likely was) and the fact that she was a woman photographer in the 50s? And if so, does that impact on the quality of her work? If you want to give it a positive twist, you could say, she is “less graphical” and “more human” than for example Cartier Bresson. It would be great to have your explanation about the quality difference….
@@christianrobold8790 I don't know that there is a hard line that differentiates "greats". And if there is, the line is different for every person. Your points are all true.
She's clearly a great artist, and the fact that many are making millions off her posthumously goes well to assenting to that obvious judgment. Her work should be in the public domain and available, No one had a right to profit from her work but her, and the initial discoverers, and that for a brief time.
It's certainly a strange situation with her never benefitting from her talent.
@@TheCritHouse The vast majority of artists of quality rarely see financial compensation commensurate to their contribution.
I think the money made from sales of her prints does go into a public trust, and Maloof also established an artistic scholarship for a woman. I find it interesting that male artists seem very surprised that she didn’t publish/sell her work. Given the time period she lived in, women were not expected to make $$ or be successful. Women didn’t get full financial liberty until the 1970’s.
@@susiefisch That it took an accident of purchase to get her recognition is a BIG problem in society, and one that goes beyond sexism. Too often great artists or scientists have to struggle against the mass of inferiors in their field just to get the basics of recognition and a life's career. That Maier got neither while alive says far too much of this society, esp when compared with her more known contemps who were not nearly as good.
If she was not educated in photography any form of way, well then I would say that she wrote the manuals on the subject. The timeframe, photography was also seen as a male dominated era at that point. So she had to contend with that as well. That must have had a impact on her non disclosure. Then many of us do miss the bus, because of life and decisions we have to make in life ..... I honestly feel it was the timeframe and her gender at that point of time. That's my gut feeling.
It's hard to disagree. But who really knows?
I wonder if she would be upset about her work being should. They look pretty formal and relaxed. What if this was her way of chilling out/ relaxing because of the hectic life she led looking after children. If the lady wanted to be famous or put in the masters category, she would have sort a way of selling her work like the photographer's of her time?
Those are some of the many questions about her and her work. We do not know.
Also especially when she was out taking pictures with the children she was nanny to, she comes off as a real world Mary Poppins. With camera instead of umbrella.
"Just a spoonful of developer helps the highlights go down, in the most delightful way!"
It looks like the car in the picture is parked and waiting for someone. Could it be that Vivian was waiting to see who it might be and then along comes the woman in the fur stole?
It's possible. Or she was following the woman.
These gentlemen obviously didn't read her biography. She was not shy and she did not ask people's permission to take their photos.
They did not
What stays with me is the over-the-top exaggeration of the scariness of shooting street photos today. Maybe just don't do it in obviously dicey situations. Unfortunately it is trickier nowadays when shooting children, but it's very rare to be nastily confronted as long as you're not being obnoxious.
Yeohi, yes, it is hard. But there's a good way to do it, and there's a bad way to do it.
0:50 She couldn't have been entirely self taught especially as her mother was a keen photographer.
J H, I guess that's probably right. Thanks for the insight. I think the statement would have been more accurately stated as she didn't appear to have formal photographic education.
I found a slightly condescending undercurrent during this analysis..
Mach1, I'm sorry you feel that way. We'll go back and look at the discussion and try to see what you mean. Thanks for watching.
I agree with the sense of condescension. 1)After all she was a woman so it was easier to get close and be non confrontational. 2) That it was the 50's so photog was more trusted. 3)She could look down into her camera - less confrontational. All may have some truth but have nothing to do with her extraordinary skills of observation and placing herself by forethought to capture unique and emotional art. All the while with a full time job of caring for somebody else's kids! Not to mention sublime technical prowess with minimal resources. She was absolutely driven and committed. Really seems like the "reviewers" were trying hard to be 'prof. critics' rather than looking at the ways she was extraordinary and to be celebrated.
@@TheCritHouse…. I got the same reaction from listening to your guests. And if you didn’t catch it the first time I doubt whether you will catch it the second time if you do review their responses. they were self satisfied and smug in their comments.
It wasn’t “slight.”
Hogwash. They were drooling.
ONLY PEOPLE
Yup.
I was lucky to go out with Eliot Porter into the woods to get an idea of what he was looking at. He was very quiet when setting up his camera. The woods were his favorite. I favored shooting junk yards, thrift shops, and flea markets which he got a good laugh out of seeing.
@@LINDAOZAG That must have been a great experience.
She’s no Elizabeth Holmes. I enjoy her work …
That's a compliment we hadn't heard before. Good one
I am sure it would have delighted her to have her work honoured - but all the attention would be too much for a person of her kind. So fame had to be posthumous!
Lisbeth, I'm sure you are correct. I do wonder if she might have found pleasure, or solace, in a community of like-minded photographers, people she could talk to, learn from and teach.
Vivian Maier flipped the bird to the photography establishment. She shows that the greatest photographers need no education, or study, or a need to be part of a class or photography club, or possess a degree in composition and the gamut of photography rules taught in universities and colleges today. She needed no instruction, or publicity, or reassurance from fans or followers and needed no likes. She is the antithesis of the American ideal photographer, and so unlike Ansel Adams, who was all about monetisation and loved publicity. Americans are puzzled as to why she sought no fame and fortune. So how did she rise to become probably the best woman photographer the world has ever seen?
She was born with an eye which could see and not only look. All photographers need to look, but most fail to see. Incidentally, the panel forgot to mention that the cameras she used had no light meter, or autofocus, yet look at the way that she nailed exposure and correct focus time after time. Today’s so called street photographers, should learn from Vivian’s work, then go into a corner and cry, as you will never be that good!
She was an impressive woman.
an eye which could see-----it's a gift------------it can't be taught------
@@LINDAOZAG Perhaps not. But that shouldn't stop us from trying to learn, to understand and to improve.
“The best woman photographer”? Why did you limit Maier? Maier can be considered the best photographer. Period.
Boy, the two guest panelists don’t think much of Maier. So I am glad Maier did what she did in solitude and just left it for those of us who can appreciate her and her genius. The two guest panelists make money from their work and I think that blinds them to an amateur genius.
Any human can push the buttons on a camera. No difference. Great is Great. My dad had the same camera. That's the one I learned on and still have. I like looking to see what the old times have done without all kinds of Photoshop help and $60,000.00 cameras. Seeing beauty/wonder/awe is a gift from GOD. Merry Christmas. :) @@Jasper7182009