Just a heads up, this video has been edited and ready to publish since last Sunday, shortly before the BR changes happened, hence it's 9.7 status. Thanks for watching :D
Damn I haven't got that map in forever(Red Desert) and I actually like that map ...idk why but I like the BIG maps where you have more freedom. Also them Nords I was never really that great at them things and I remember your first how-to video I watched on the Bullpups on setting up key binds and that was pretty down to the point to help players out on what to use and how to use it.
2:33 hey justin its was me in the leo2av this thank is so underrated on the 9.7 but now on the 10.0 its better to just play the 2a4 istead and,and we did a nice team fight on that replay
this morning i was playing my olifant mk1a and i was on middle east up on the sniping position. some dick rolls up to the position and even tho there wasn't a single person watching he popped like 3-4 batches of smoke to cross while i was trying to kill an XM-1 and because of the smoke the XM-1 killed one of my teammates then later i pinged a ZTZ96 who was flanking behind the guy and 2 others, i even shot the ZTZ and set it on fire which marked it on the map but they completely ignored it. the ZTZ96 rolls up behind them and shoots the back of a t-64 which set it on fire but even after that the t-64 didn't react for like 4 seconds and then he got killed then the 2 others (type 74's) kept driving even one of them was behind the t-64 and watched it happen then just kept going ignoring the ZTZ then both of them got killed like wtf how can they possibly be so braindead.
they should give it the better shell... the armor doesnt really stand up to nothing tho somehow the lower place with the fuel tank can stop some shells
Damn i miss the game already. My console (ps5) blew up about 2 months ago and now im saving for a new one. Don't have the space for a pc. Missing the action
most leos should not be on 9.7 just because of the missing termal if you compare it with other tanks the best example is the ratkapfwagen 90 and the roicat 105
no different, all the 10.7 vehicles went to 11.0 and there was literally only 1 11.0 vehicle before so there is 1 new tank to fight. Everything moving up means nothing moved up other than tanks that were able to be decompressed like the TAM and TAM 2IP
@@yamatokurusaki5790 With what, just look at the BR changes. Uptiers are the biggest problem in tanks like this and when nothing changed with the highest tanks its fighting the only difference is downtiers
Yup at 9.7 it definitely was perfectly balanced but now it NEEDS thermals and better top shell to Keep up with its current opponents, Especially in uptiers…
I always got smoked in the 2AV. 3BM42 always seemed to rip right through this at any angle when I played it. At a down tier it’s armor and gun were pretty efficient though.
This thing is still cheaper than buying a rank 6 premium but the price is going up every day so better buy one quick before its 100 bucks on the market.
funny thing is we compare this Leopard to its tech tree variants and it only comes as mid tou have USA that is mostly mid and then there is ussr with 50% of its vehicles non functional irl and the best stats that feel like they should go at least 1 BR up
I swear, i have it to be still spaded, but facing it is just a pain. The hull fuel tank, between the composite layers, is just a hidden block of heavy ERA; 3 Leo AV i've faced in these two days (directly, but i think there were more) and all have just withstand my OFL F1 as i aimed at the hull thanks to that fuel tank (the turret it's a gaijined moment...even the breech). Probably it's a serious skill issue and my cure is to break a track to it and leave at my teammates to deal with, i refuse to fight it anylonger with my poor AMX Super.
Can someone explain why they raised this thing's br? I could think of many things that were justifiably moved up in br but this is missplaced, if I'm not mistaken this still has the bug where you can kill it by shooting it on its dies with machine guns, right?
It’s a pretty good tank for 10.0 has good composite armor, but for some reason gaijin puts the Ariete at 10.0, 11.3, and 11.7 and still refuses to give them hull composite armor even though the manufacturer of the hull even states how it has composite hull armor, gaijin is a weird company and places things wherever they want to
@@Rimmless it's not that this is a bad tank, I'm sure it's gonna be really good for 10.0 but it has nothing that warrants a br increase and juit because Gaijin can move things up and down in br doesn't always mean they should. It has to make sense.
I’ll never play it because I’ll never be able to grind that far down the German tech tree in my lifetime, I’m in early Cold War Russia and already suffering, such a slow down in the grind stopped there on the American tree as well
Surprisingly I started in USSR and switched over once I started lagging off at 8.0 USSR... about 3 months later and I just unlocked the 2A4 and I can comfortably say top tier Germany is worth it.
@@nameplaceholder4895 my friend finally downloaded warthunder after years of trying, if he enjoys it we might try to grind the Germany tree, I am already at the panther tanks close to the leopard so I agree it looks good
I grinded for this tank even though I was told its bad. I love it. And you needed 9 Stars for the Camo, the 10th is for the Selling upgrade to the coupon
Idk bro, this tank slaps. It seems faster than the A4, 123, and has 3 machine guns for helis, and I've tanked countless shots on the lower front plate because of that Fuel placement.
Definitely deserved to go to 10.0. It could go back down to 9.7 only if they ever nerf the insane survive-ability of Leo 2's and the armor magically bouncing shots at 90 degrees. At least the TURMS and T-80 BVM just eat the shots, while Leo 2's bounce it with a thin sheet of steel at 90 degrees... The spalling when you do penetrate one is abysmal, the spall cone is like +/- 10 degrees while on every tank (except Russian ofc) is like +/- 30 degrees. These tanks are literally the Su-25/F-5 of the ground tech tree. Fix the issues, then back down to 9.7 and it will actually be balanced. Otherwise it deserves 10.0, maybe even 10.3 since it just loves to take no damage.
I like night battles but there NEEDS to be alternative ways of spotting people nvd and thermal the flares helped a bit sure but nowhere near enough they should add in running lights headlights tail lights spot lights just alternative ways of being able to see people that light decoration from a few BPs back is a perfect example of it
I bought this a few months ago because I knew the price would only go up and its so much fun. Max uptiers are a bit of a problem for it as the 11.0 (previously 10.7) vehicles literally top tier rounds and fight tanks almost 2 BRs below top and the armor improvement of those tanks is a lot but its still possible to kill them
@@farmcat9873 nothing changed for it, most things went up so its the same as nothing going up. The only things that changed are vehicles that went up by .6 BR or the handful of vehicles that didn't go up which is just BR decompression.
@@MyWaifuNow I still have my coupon and seriously like 20-something other ones from years and years past events that I still haven't turned in, so maybe sometime soon maybe I will turn this one in cause I rather a challenge than an OP vehicle that does the job for me. But thank you for information.
Are night battles gone for now? I remember in the road map they said something about it being a mode that you would be able to disable/enable. No idea if that is implemented yet though.
Seeing as this was a demonstration vehicle sent by Rheinmetall to the US to compete for the Abrams trials I always thought it belonged in the US tree, not the german one. Would be cool if they moved it over.
its probably best to keep warthunder chat off, air RB top tier or the brs close to it seem to have every other game have someone saying a slur or being like "smoke if you hate X"
im glad night battles are gone, absolutely hated them especially with stock vehicles, also yeah i hate that they nerfed the nords they're so useless now but other agms are still good to use, only the nords got fucked, turned my nice premium into a useless premium almost
The only top tier vehicle i have is the 2PL and that, the 2AV its pretty good despite me having no experience in top tier (and just sucks at the game in general)
@@harryshuman9637 i don't play that seriously, i just play whenever i feel like it, kinda like a refresher after a stressful match while i watch myself be bad at video games in general, and i don't 1 death leave, i bring back ups and i rarely brought 2AV in 11.3, 11.3 is just point and click, and I'm not good enough for that and its annoying, id rather go for a couple of match with the 2AV and getting a couple of kills is enough to make me happy
@@OzzyTheWild yeah.... but surprisingly some people find that weird as if it's a new concept like what, you actually enjoy the game!? yes, I'm literally driving a tank and my PC runs the game ok, and that itself alone is bliss considering my 3rd world slum living, mold breathing status, well... they're westerners, they don't know how little i got and how little it takes to make me happy.
I sold the PT 16/T14 mod I guess that was a dumb move but hey it is what it is and no way am I gonna pay that amount on the market for that thing ....no damn way. Plus GERMAIN teams aren't for me such a bad taste from the last couple of years of nation of Germany teams.
Except it isnt. The 2A4 has much better rounds because of its 120mm gun. You should stop looking at 10m/0 degree penetration. It means nothing at this tier.
@@jackwalters5506 no, the AV‘s round has 1mm less pen which is negligible, i get that. But like i said, the 2A4‘s advantage isnt the raw pen, its the caliber that has a way better post pen effect then the 105 of the 2AV. You need to look at all factors combined: the survivability, mobility, the raw pen and the caliber of the gun. If you take all these factors, the 2A4 and the AV are identical except with their caliber.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Just a heads up, this video has been edited and ready to publish since last Sunday, shortly before the BR changes happened, hence it's 9.7 status.
Thanks for watching :D
AS 20 Nord should have 33kg of explosives not 12
my 9.7 line cries 😢
Damn I haven't got that map in forever(Red Desert) and I actually like that map ...idk why but I like the BIG maps where you have more freedom. Also them Nords I was never really that great at them things and I remember your first how-to video I watched on the Bullpups on setting up key binds and that was pretty down to the point to help players out on what to use and how to use it.
Justin are you kidding Gaijin give us free silver lions stop it Im gonna die, but we can always dream that can't be taken away from us yet.
2:33 hey justin its was me in the leo2av this thank is so underrated on the 9.7 but now on the 10.0 its better to just play the 2a4 istead and,and we did a nice team fight on that replay
Good plays man
Damn you arent joking this needs to be hearted, good job in that battle!
Good job and nice that you found your way here. These are the community moments and I would guess Justin much appreciates it.
Who’s the real one?
it was me in the 2av that you helped last week with the eva and pandromodo decal lol, i do agree we are literal toilet papers 😂😂
You're a legend mate
Who’s the real one?
For me personally I love the leopard 2k but I never really got into the 2AV but I’m gonna do it today !
Im sure you guys wont see this but a fun fact about the 2AV is this was a competitor against the XM-1's
That it is, and it's a shame that it didn't get accepted. Gotta love internal politics.
Hey its me, the guy who died to FV4005 ☠, appreciate your mention tho
love this thing, it's great fun if you don't get uptiered
haven't seen red desert in years, it feels like
ya i just was saying that and I don't mind red desert but if your on the rite side.
Shame they moved it up to 10.0
Yeah and you're going to constantly constantly get put to the maximum br constantly so you can get your teeth kicked in
I mean the puma is 10.0 now it away get 1 shot and the guns 30mm at 10.0 thank you gaijin
Literally everything is 10.0 now
@@thybonheng1485 thank the stupid russia players for constantly crying about it
Watching your shot bounce away on a good shot, makes me take a deep breath while they line up and take me down.
16:15 nice name bro 😂😂
It was the best in the 9.7 lineup it actually could deal with turns but now that no longer
Yeah, I loved it in my 9.7 lineup, sad to see it go up but it was quite powerful at 9.7.
Got my first Nuke with this vehicle about 2 weeks ago it's amazing
This was the first main prize that I ground out. Super glad it’s finally getting some respect.
this morning i was playing my olifant mk1a and i was on middle east up on the sniping position. some dick rolls up to the position and even tho there wasn't a single person watching he popped like 3-4 batches of smoke to cross while i was trying to kill an XM-1 and because of the smoke the XM-1 killed one of my teammates then later i pinged a ZTZ96 who was flanking behind the guy and 2 others, i even shot the ZTZ and set it on fire which marked it on the map but they completely ignored it. the ZTZ96 rolls up behind them and shoots the back of a t-64 which set it on fire but even after that the t-64 didn't react for like 4 seconds and then he got killed then the 2 others (type 74's) kept driving even one of them was behind the t-64 and watched it happen then just kept going ignoring the ZTZ then both of them got killed like wtf how can they possibly be so braindead.
Have it and love it, but I do wish I had gone for the auto loading one instead lol
they should give it the better shell... the armor doesnt really stand up to nothing tho somehow the lower place with the fuel tank can stop some shells
Still my favorite tank in the game idk why but it just feels great to play
Damn i miss the game already. My console (ps5) blew up about 2 months ago and now im saving for a new one.
Don't have the space for a pc.
Missing the action
hey justin, a few days ago i played on the map un city and i saw u play the Is-7, remember me?
most leos should not be on 9.7 just because of the missing termal if you compare it with other tanks the best example is the ratkapfwagen 90 and the roicat 105
So by that logic lets move every single Russian MBT before the T-80B down. Fine by me.
@@henryatkinson1479 would be enough if the max br is 20.0 or 15.0
It felt nice at 9.7. Haven’t played it in a while so we’ll see how the new matchmaking is.
pain
no different, all the 10.7 vehicles went to 11.0 and there was literally only 1 11.0 vehicle before so there is 1 new tank to fight. Everything moving up means nothing moved up other than tanks that were able to be decompressed like the TAM and TAM 2IP
@@MyWaifuNow TAM 2IP went to 9.0 while the tech tree TAM stayed at 8.7.
@@MyWaifuNow ya capping man
@@yamatokurusaki5790 With what, just look at the BR changes. Uptiers are the biggest problem in tanks like this and when nothing changed with the highest tanks its fighting the only difference is downtiers
"Goddamit, he crashed"...EVERY F'ing time I spawn an AA to get some problem child....
min 10:29 why is the leopard 2a5/2a6 not that mutch ammored (puma spikes when ? )
I wonder how many people will say that was them in the other 2AV.... anyways great video!
Yup at 9.7 it definitely was perfectly balanced but now it NEEDS thermals and better top shell to Keep up with its current opponents,
Especially in uptiers…
That’s what I’m saying
I always got smoked in the 2AV. 3BM42 always seemed to rip right through this at any angle when I played it. At a down tier it’s armor and gun were pretty efficient though.
Turret armor isn't great, it's missing some of the composite components found on the 2A4.
3:11 why the crew screaming tho
I have no idea, but it's hilarious when it happens!
Ooh they were making the drone sound!
love that night games are gone, hate the BR changes so far
i just love my leo 2k too much it just feels better to play than the later variants
Need to play it again now that the BR changes have happened, wonder if it's a bit more fun.
One game, full uptier, 3 assists, 1 cap. Hits received. A shed load. 🤣
This thing is still cheaper than buying a rank 6 premium but the price is going up every day so better buy one quick before its 100 bucks on the market.
funny thing is we compare this Leopard to its tech tree variants and it only comes as mid
tou have USA that is mostly mid
and then there is ussr with 50% of its vehicles non functional irl and the best stats that feel like they should go at least 1 BR up
Did they nerf pt16/14 leo engine? Its considerably slow now compared to when I last used it
Got it for 20 bucks from the exchange a few months back, but it is like the T80UM2= struggles without thermals outside of arcade.
They move it to 10.0 >_
I missed the event, and bought it afterwards for 20GJN, i think it was totally worth it, i really love that tank
Hi Justin when are you gonna revisit the strela10 ?
no idea why they are putting the damn 2av up to 10.0
This thing doesnt even have termals...
I swear, i have it to be still spaded, but facing it is just a pain.
The hull fuel tank, between the composite layers, is just a hidden block of heavy ERA; 3 Leo AV i've faced in these two days (directly, but i think there were more) and all have just withstand my OFL F1 as i aimed at the hull thanks to that fuel tank (the turret it's a gaijined moment...even the breech).
Probably it's a serious skill issue and my cure is to break a track to it and leave at my teammates to deal with, i refuse to fight it anylonger with my poor AMX Super.
skill issue
You can nearly penetrate its turret ring with a .50 cal… sounds like you just suck man
Skill issue
Can someone explain why they raised this thing's br? I could think of many things that were justifiably moved up in br but this is missplaced, if I'm not mistaken this still has the bug where you can kill it by shooting it on its dies with machine guns, right?
It’s a pretty good tank for 10.0 has good composite armor, but for some reason gaijin puts the Ariete at 10.0, 11.3, and 11.7 and still refuses to give them hull composite armor even though the manufacturer of the hull even states how it has composite hull armor, gaijin is a weird company and places things wherever they want to
@@Rimmless it's not that this is a bad tank, I'm sure it's gonna be really good for 10.0 but it has nothing that warrants a br increase and juit because Gaijin can move things up and down in br doesn't always mean they should. It has to make sense.
i do love the 2v even though its not super good
wait what, theyre moving it toi 10.0????????????? why??
When it got added the turret was really bugged and you could get killed by 50cal from the front, is that fixed now?
I’ll never play it because I’ll never be able to grind that far down the German tech tree in my lifetime, I’m in early Cold War Russia and already suffering, such a slow down in the grind stopped there on the American tree as well
Surprisingly I started in USSR and switched over once I started lagging off at 8.0 USSR... about 3 months later and I just unlocked the 2A4 and I can comfortably say top tier Germany is worth it.
@@nameplaceholder4895 my friend finally downloaded warthunder after years of trying, if he enjoys it we might try to grind the Germany tree, I am already at the panther tanks close to the leopard so I agree it looks good
Love this tank
The Leopard 2AV has better hull protection against 3BM42 than 2A4 does.
I grinded for this tank even though I was told its bad. I love it. And you needed 9 Stars for the Camo, the 10th is for the Selling upgrade to the coupon
Idk bro, this tank slaps. It seems faster than the A4, 123, and has 3 machine guns for helis, and I've tanked countless shots on the lower front plate because of that Fuel placement.
Its my nightmares to battle this tank it gives me ptsd
According to Gjn, this tank is at the same level as the Turms
And the 2s38
Turms is way worse.
Definitely deserved to go to 10.0. It could go back down to 9.7 only if they ever nerf the insane survive-ability of Leo 2's and the armor magically bouncing shots at 90 degrees. At least the TURMS and T-80 BVM just eat the shots, while Leo 2's bounce it with a thin sheet of steel at 90 degrees... The spalling when you do penetrate one is abysmal, the spall cone is like +/- 10 degrees while on every tank (except Russian ofc) is like +/- 30 degrees. These tanks are literally the Su-25/F-5 of the ground tech tree. Fix the issues, then back down to 9.7 and it will actually be balanced. Otherwise it deserves 10.0, maybe even 10.3 since it just loves to take no damage.
I like night battles but there NEEDS to be alternative ways of spotting people nvd and thermal the flares helped a bit sure but nowhere near enough they should add in running lights headlights tail lights spot lights just alternative ways of being able to see people that light decoration from a few BPs back is a perfect example of it
I saw this thing eating missiles like warme Semmeln
Can u show us ur graphics settings please 😊
Justin you should try using the Hunter F58 at 9.7 for CAS it’s awesome
Weird how the only good Hunter in the game isn;t in the british tech tree...
@@BugattiONE666 I know
justin, what are the chances you spend 50m on the ice cream event?
I bought this a few months ago because I knew the price would only go up and its so much fun. Max uptiers are a bit of a problem for it as the 11.0 (previously 10.7) vehicles literally top tier rounds and fight tanks almost 2 BRs below top and the armor improvement of those tanks is a lot but its still possible to kill them
Ya so this thing going up more in BR is gonna be a bit rough on it most likely.
@@farmcat9873 nothing changed for it, most things went up so its the same as nothing going up. The only things that changed are vehicles that went up by .6 BR or the handful of vehicles that didn't go up which is just BR decompression.
@@MyWaifuNow I still have my coupon and seriously like 20-something other ones from years and years past events that I still haven't turned in, so maybe sometime soon maybe I will turn this one in cause I rather a challenge than an OP vehicle that does the job for me. But thank you for information.
Can we talk about the puma that killed a T80B?!
I'll play the AV today just to prove You wrong!
I don't like removing night battles at all. I mean, the whole Night Vision is pointless now and it was a nice change of pace from time to time.
You can enable them again
They move the puma into 10.0 and now the armor are completely useless and only with 30mm guns give it a ATGM gaijin
Justin, how would you compare this to the South African TTD?
I remember when everyone said this was an unremarkable tank, and it wasn't worth the time and effort. Now who's laughing
Are night battles gone for now? I remember in the road map they said something about it being a mode that you would be able to disable/enable. No idea if that is implemented yet though.
Every time you play you have a good team but me damn all blind guy or deadbrain can't look the map
Seeing as this was a demonstration vehicle sent by Rheinmetall to the US to compete for the Abrams trials I always thought it belonged in the US tree, not the german one. Would be cool if they moved it over.
Nigt games where only funy to me when i played the Puma with it great thermals but otherewise is extremly frustrating with bat nigt vision.
For having a 105 shouldn't it have a faster reload like the M1
its probably best to keep warthunder chat off, air RB top tier or the brs close to it seem to have every other game have someone saying a slur or being like "smoke if you hate X"
I finished the German tech tree with this tank
Ayo, I was in one of your games a few days ago!
Eres el unico youtuber que veo, los demas son puros tutoriales ó usan hacks, te veo tus videos con subtitulos me agradan
You can kill that thing with 50. Cals on the turret ring
I like your video, nice playing, nice commenting👌✌
im glad night battles are gone, absolutely hated them especially with stock vehicles, also yeah i hate that they nerfed the nords they're so useless now but other agms are still good to use, only the nords got fucked, turned my nice premium into a useless premium almost
The only top tier vehicle i have is the 2PL and that, the 2AV
its pretty good despite me having no experience in top tier (and just sucks at the game in general)
@@harryshuman9637 i don't play that seriously, i just play whenever i feel like it, kinda like a refresher after a stressful match while i watch myself be bad at video games in general, and i don't 1 death leave, i bring back ups and i rarely brought 2AV in 11.3, 11.3 is just point and click, and I'm not good enough for that and its annoying, id rather go for a couple of match with the 2AV and getting a couple of kills is enough to make me happy
@@the_defaultguyif you enjoy playing, that’s really what matters. Some people forget that video games are made to have fun :D
@@OzzyTheWild yeah.... but surprisingly some people find that weird as if it's a new concept
like what, you actually enjoy the game!?
yes, I'm literally driving a tank
and my PC runs the game ok, and that itself alone is bliss considering my 3rd world slum living, mold breathing status, well... they're westerners, they don't know how little i got and how little it takes to make me happy.
@@the_defaultguy fr. I don’t live in the same situation as you, but there is a lot of people that are never happy with what they have
16:36 i’m sorry justin can you ever forgive me
we were just there very early and i was looking for an early-crosser to A
It was me on F-104C, I didn’t realize you were in the game until I kill you
They barely raised it from BR. and without thermals.
background music name?
Maybe i do skmething wrong, but its feels like u have to play this game full time to get any „Free rewards”.
Now its 10.0 everything pens it .. but its still fun to Play, at least that tank has 400mm pen so can destroy some tanks
Im the cv90105 in the match with your decal ;)
imagine "not being overpowered" being laballed as "unremarkable"
Gotta have SOME clickbait to the video!
@@JustinPlaysTV why?
ive lost faith in the WT grind unfortunately... just too much time needed rip
Def not a 2A4. The sights, gun, hull, and two pintle-mounted MG3s give it away :3
just imagine the streamer bias + russian bias wow!!! or it work only 1 at a time?
sold the QN506 then bought this, it was worth the trade, too sad it went from 9.7 to 10.0, it only has 105 mm 😂😂
I just got the turm III and oh boy that thing is mega powerful and idk why but I was surviving shots I definitely shouldn't have been.
I got this from the Ice Cream crates just the other day
How much sl did it set you back
@@ianconaway9435 it took like 100 crates so 6 million? I had way more silver than I needed so figured why not.
I was playing the 2 av in the first clip
have this thing and absolutely despise it I do better in the C2A1 at at higher br than I do this thing it's just so meh
Give therms therms give
Why do you have a T72 for germany? 😵
The T-72 is East German, the GDR
Its part of the tech tree.
Yeah just found out lol
I sold the PT 16/T14 mod I guess that was a dumb move but hey it is what it is and no way am I gonna pay that amount on the market for that thing ....no damn way. Plus GERMAIN teams aren't for me such a bad taste from the last couple of years of nation of Germany teams.
20:14 Fernanfloo moment :)
60% of the good leopards u just need to buy for effin money
You've got 202m silver lions. 😮 Can i have some? 😅😅
Wow i just realize how good is map rotation on war thunder :D crap really,i havent play this map in ages :D dam it kkkkk
I have it and never played it
This is fine at 10.0 with DM33 considering it's already better then the 2a4's best round at 10.3
Except it isnt. The 2A4 has much better rounds because of its 120mm gun.
You should stop looking at 10m/0 degree penetration. It means nothing at this tier.
@@oOScrabbOo Yeah people look at the T-72A Round having a Better flat pen and think its better than the Leo 2K Round
@@oOScrabbOo if I remember right DM33 also has better angle pen
@@jackwalters5506 no, the AV‘s round has 1mm less pen which is negligible, i get that.
But like i said, the 2A4‘s advantage isnt the raw pen, its the caliber that has a way better post pen effect then the 105 of the 2AV.
You need to look at all factors combined: the survivability, mobility, the raw pen and the caliber of the gun.
If you take all these factors, the 2A4 and the AV are identical except with their caliber.
@@oOScrabbOoariete exists