The exhaust flows more. If you have 1 bar in the intake manifold, only by changing the exhaust back pressure you can increase power. Another thing is compressor map but at 1, 1.2 bar both turbos should be fine. A small turbo maybe be out of compressor over 2 bar and a certain cfm, and compressing the air, actually heats it up more. And the backhousing is probably to small, so it doesn't make power because of that too
More exhaust restrictions actually reduces boost creep. With that bigger turbo, swapping out that 2.5” catback to 3” would make it creep even worse. However it’d be totally worth it with that smaller turbo! Boost would come on a bit earlier & hold on a bit longer. Glad you’re having fun testing things with your dyno. That bigger turbine housing just breathes too much to not be creep N’ hah. Excited to see a 4849 on your D16 when the time comes. It’s definitely gonna work great!
Would love an updated video on your final results when you have a chance to. Everyone focuses on their wanted results whether top end or low end. It's awesome to see these comparisons. Great content
All comes back to drive/backpressure. The WG spring psi rating assumes 1:1 drive pressure to boost, and the drive pressure assists WG valve opening against the spring. So less assistance from the lower exhaust pressure with the larger turbo will "act" like a slightly stiffer psi spring and result in more base boost. Boost creep as well, with lower drive pressure giving less "push"/pressure difference out the wastegate vs just continuing into the turbine. Of course mainly more wastegated/bypassed exhaust needed for the same boost on the larger turbo on top of that. Power per psi differences from IAT can be made minimal with an efficient intercooler, but power at the same psi is often still higher with a larger turbo from a more favorable EMAP:MAP ratio. Power per psi variations can vary widely with how sensitive the setup is to drive pressure, with camshaft duration/overlap/timing being a big part
Honestly this is something I've pretty much always known lol. A smaller turbo will spool faster and make better power down low/through the mid range vs an oversized turbo. As long as the turbo will make the amount of power you want to make and be within it's efficiency range, you should always run the smallest turbo you can that will hit your power goal. There is no real advantage to a larger turbo if both will reach your power goal, obviously a bigger turbo can hit a higher power goal though the trade off is less power down low/more lag. My brother is a diesel mechanic and has been working on Hondas for over 20 years, he built a 500+hp EG coupe when he was like 18 (this was around like 2003-2004 after fast and furious came out lol, before 500+hp civics were really a thing you saw frequently). Definitely an OG Honda guy, honestly you probably know/have heard of him/saw him at a car meet back in the day he was definitely one of the first people in the Green Bay area with a civic with that much power. His gsr engine was the first one that Darton ever sleeved, they gave him a discount because they used it to make the blueprint/torque plate that they used on all of them after that. He's done everything from frankenstein builds to high comp gsrs to h22s to b16s to turbos, jackson racing superchargers, etc. as well as tuning and used to be pretty close to the guys at beyond redline, he dyno'd several cars there over the years. Anyway the point is I got to learn pretty much everything I know from him and have been around the honda/car scene since I was like 12 lol, I was a little ass kid hanging out in parking lots along main st with my brother, flagging street races and shit lol. Good times, but now I just feel like an old man whenever I go to car meets or cruise main st and see these kids in their crackle and pop tune bmw's and stanced out brz's lol. Used to be about who had the fastest car, now it's like who is the loudest and most obnoxious lmao. I just put up some videos of messing around/racing with my darton sleeved turbo em1, I'm actually adding a 4 port boost controller currently and going to turn up the boost and run boost by gear so I can (hopefully) get some traction in first gear lol. I would imagine an electronic boost controller would help the boost curve on your s2k as well if you don't have one. Anyway this has been a long ass comment but just wanted to say I appreciate you still out here making these videos, it's fun watching you build/work on hondas and inspires me to keep going with mine. Would love to meet up one day maybe throw my car on the dyno or something and see how much power it makes or just shoot the shit about hondas lol, maybe I'll see ya at a car meet or something, several bigger events coming up in GB if you ever make the drive up here for any of them pretty sure they're doing a big one at NWTC this upcoming weekend, should be pretty sweet.
nice! In my 2.5L ej25 subaru I run a stage 1 block and a stock turbo. It makes loads of torque between 3000-5500 rpm then the torque tapers off and the hp stays flat says my butt dyno. My setup is good for 400whp but the vf52 is only good for around 325hp and the exhaust back housing is a bit too small for the ported heads and stage 1 cams, its choked up so I can't run as much timing up top either. It makes 21psi at 2800 rpm in third gear wrx trans. Super fun around town and just rollin away on people without downshifting LOL
Another dope comparison. Thanks for taking the time to give us some real world results. You seem happy bro. Keep doing your thing and we’re proud of you. 👍🏼
Definitely great content I've been trying decide what turbski for the g23 stroker for awile now and soon saw you were going do this video I was patiently waiting for the results and this right here made me decide to go with the smaller frame turbo. So much great info in this video I was almost just as excited as you seeing all the datalogs and comparisons. Can't wait see what happens after change the wasgate spring/setup get her hit 14 15 pounds and then compare again. Definitely on to something with the comparing content loved the last one with b18 cam change. As always learn the most from huntertuned than any other honda related channel.
Awesome video. I went from a laggy rev9 6062 to a ball bearing psr3071 on my single vitara build and holy smokes what a difference. At 4k it’s making all the boost. Unfortunately I don’t have dyno data share prior to the swap but it’s making over 500 hp now.
I would overlay the your data from the data log to a compressor map and Check the back pressure in the exhaust manifold and in your case Check in down pipe as well. This will give you the best answer. Like you said "Your power goal is most important use smallest turbo to reach your power goal". I would add with out restricting exhaust flow so power doesn’t fall off up top. I love stuff like this. ❤❤❤
Hunter, Thanks for doing these comparison videos. Very helpful in turbo buying choices. Seems like all K series and F series boost creep with that factory issue 44mm . Just going 60mm to AVOID the hassle.
Great information, specially since I also have an S2000 and plan on going turbo.. Could you make an updated review on how are you liking the haltech ECU now that you are more familiar with it, that would be great.
Loving all the content man! I went to your website recently and wanted to ask, are you still offering tuning services? Or is that still on a case by case basis?
Neat video! I want to book a dyno session with ya to see how my NC miata compares to that s2000. Opposite build method - medium turbo, long stroke and 7k max rpms. I'm making 15 psi by 2,600 when you start the pull. I think I'm around 420 hp, not sure.
Great comparison! I do feel it is a bit skewed towards the small turbo due to the very low boost levels used. At a 25 + psi the little turbo is going to generating a lot more heat and ita temp correction would hurt the result. Running e85 and good quality intercooler as you do is also helping the little turbo. Changing the rear housing to a bigger ar on the small turbo and smaller ar on the bigger turbo will bring the two closer together and help the back pressure on the little turbo. A 4 port boost controller will help the response of the bigger turbo also. In my experience it all depends on the intended use of the car, street ,drift or touge style use the smaller is better but drag racing it’s bigger turbo for me. The small turbo needs to be big enough so it doesn’t increase Iat too high with prolonged use and the bigger turbo needs to be small enough to remain on boost after the gear change. I would love to see the 5558 test! Thanks for teaching us all.👍
It's flow rate in pounds per hour. A big turbo and small turbo at the same boost levels will not make the same power.. Garrett's website they have a bad ass breakdown of turbo efficiencies and thresholds and all that good stuff , so you can see how a turbo with X inducer at X psi and X speed / threshold can do. Then you get the hp numbers at that psi.
Its all about turbo efficiency.. smaller turbo gives you more torque down the rpm than bigger turbo. Bigger turbo is laggier low rpm. Its not about the turbo makes more boost. Small turbo needs more boost to make the same amount of power than a biger turbo would at the same boot level. Again its about efficiency.
Think the best compromise would be a 52/52. With both turbos you're using now, the boost controller would be a huge benefit over the waste gate spring only. Which of course you know. This test, in my opinion is showing the benefit of the smaller turbo being quicker spool up on a waste gate only setup, but with a boost controller you can get close to the same spool up as the smaller turbo. The downside is presented with the smaller turbo in this test too, being the higher rpm drop off. Even if you were to match the psi level of the bigger turbo, the smaller turbo isn't going to flow the same volume so I doubt it will give you the same horsepower. That's why, in my opinion, going with a 52/52 will give you the best overall power curve with lower boost levels than the 62/62. Should keep your power numbers in the same range up top while also increasing power levels in the lower rpm range.
I just finished my prelude, I have a 3582 dbb turbo .63 housing. Car makes great power, but that turbo is massive to spool, what turbo size would you recommend.?
I have a built Lsvtec on 8 pounds. I have a new manifold top mount and waiting to order one of your 6262. Now I’m thinking about getting the smaller one. I can’t wait for 20 psi. I may never come back home lol
@TrayneTracks well you didn't give me a power goal, but 1000cc injectors on e85 are good to around 500 wheel horsepower at 60psi of fuel pressure. If that's what you want I recommend a Gtx3071r, specifically a Pulsar brand turbo.
Now to add a small nitrous shot to get the small turbo spinning quicker and something to get it up to 15lbs boost without the creep of the bigger turbo.
Sorry, I’ve been busy dealing with some family stuff and am not sure when the injectors will arrive back in stock. I’m out a ton of money currently hoping they will show up soon. Don’t take me not messaging back personal. Sorry
From what I was told a bigger turbo will flow more volume at the same boost of a smaller turbo. Love theses dyno testing video's
The exhaust flows more. If you have 1 bar in the intake manifold, only by changing the exhaust back pressure you can increase power. Another thing is compressor map but at 1, 1.2 bar both turbos should be fine. A small turbo maybe be out of compressor over 2 bar and a certain cfm, and compressing the air, actually heats it up more. And the backhousing is probably to small, so it doesn't make power because of that too
S2000 must be a blast to drive with 500hp wheel.
Well done Hunter.
More exhaust restrictions actually reduces boost creep. With that bigger turbo, swapping out that 2.5” catback to 3” would make it creep even worse. However it’d be totally worth it with that smaller turbo! Boost would come on a bit earlier & hold on a bit longer.
Glad you’re having fun testing things with your dyno. That bigger turbine housing just breathes too much to not be creep N’ hah. Excited to see a 4849 on your D16 when the time comes. It’s definitely gonna work great!
Would love an updated video on your final results when you have a chance to. Everyone focuses on their wanted results whether top end or low end. It's awesome to see these comparisons. Great content
All comes back to drive/backpressure. The WG spring psi rating assumes 1:1 drive pressure to boost, and the drive pressure assists WG valve opening against the spring. So less assistance from the lower exhaust pressure with the larger turbo will "act" like a slightly stiffer psi spring and result in more base boost. Boost creep as well, with lower drive pressure giving less "push"/pressure difference out the wastegate vs just continuing into the turbine. Of course mainly more wastegated/bypassed exhaust needed for the same boost on the larger turbo on top of that.
Power per psi differences from IAT can be made minimal with an efficient intercooler, but power at the same psi is often still higher with a larger turbo from a more favorable EMAP:MAP ratio. Power per psi variations can vary widely with how sensitive the setup is to drive pressure, with camshaft duration/overlap/timing being a big part
Your science videos are the most interesting I think.
Honestly this is something I've pretty much always known lol. A smaller turbo will spool faster and make better power down low/through the mid range vs an oversized turbo. As long as the turbo will make the amount of power you want to make and be within it's efficiency range, you should always run the smallest turbo you can that will hit your power goal. There is no real advantage to a larger turbo if both will reach your power goal, obviously a bigger turbo can hit a higher power goal though the trade off is less power down low/more lag.
My brother is a diesel mechanic and has been working on Hondas for over 20 years, he built a 500+hp EG coupe when he was like 18 (this was around like 2003-2004 after fast and furious came out lol, before 500+hp civics were really a thing you saw frequently). Definitely an OG Honda guy, honestly you probably know/have heard of him/saw him at a car meet back in the day he was definitely one of the first people in the Green Bay area with a civic with that much power. His gsr engine was the first one that Darton ever sleeved, they gave him a discount because they used it to make the blueprint/torque plate that they used on all of them after that. He's done everything from frankenstein builds to high comp gsrs to h22s to b16s to turbos, jackson racing superchargers, etc. as well as tuning and used to be pretty close to the guys at beyond redline, he dyno'd several cars there over the years. Anyway the point is I got to learn pretty much everything I know from him and have been around the honda/car scene since I was like 12 lol, I was a little ass kid hanging out in parking lots along main st with my brother, flagging street races and shit lol. Good times, but now I just feel like an old man whenever I go to car meets or cruise main st and see these kids in their crackle and pop tune bmw's and stanced out brz's lol. Used to be about who had the fastest car, now it's like who is the loudest and most obnoxious lmao.
I just put up some videos of messing around/racing with my darton sleeved turbo em1, I'm actually adding a 4 port boost controller currently and going to turn up the boost and run boost by gear so I can (hopefully) get some traction in first gear lol. I would imagine an electronic boost controller would help the boost curve on your s2k as well if you don't have one. Anyway this has been a long ass comment but just wanted to say I appreciate you still out here making these videos, it's fun watching you build/work on hondas and inspires me to keep going with mine. Would love to meet up one day maybe throw my car on the dyno or something and see how much power it makes or just shoot the shit about hondas lol, maybe I'll see ya at a car meet or something, several bigger events coming up in GB if you ever make the drive up here for any of them pretty sure they're doing a big one at NWTC this upcoming weekend, should be pretty sweet.
nice! In my 2.5L ej25 subaru I run a stage 1 block and a stock turbo. It makes loads of torque between 3000-5500 rpm then the torque tapers off and the hp stays flat says my butt dyno. My setup is good for 400whp but the vf52 is only good for around 325hp and the exhaust back housing is a bit too small for the ported heads and stage 1 cams, its choked up so I can't run as much timing up top either. It makes 21psi at 2800 rpm in third gear wrx trans. Super fun around town and just rollin away on people without downshifting LOL
I love these informational videos, always great when I see hunter tuned posted!
Another dope comparison. Thanks for taking the time to give us some real world results. You seem happy bro. Keep doing your thing and we’re proud of you. 👍🏼
Thank you for the amazing videos HunterTuned🙏🏼
Bro we all are learning.... and yes it's making sense... this is awesome insight in building a boosted project.... can't wait to see what's next
This channel stays awesome ❤
Definitely great content I've been trying decide what turbski for the g23 stroker for awile now and soon saw you were going do this video I was patiently waiting for the results and this right here made me decide to go with the smaller frame turbo. So much great info in this video I was almost just as excited as you seeing all the datalogs and comparisons. Can't wait see what happens after change the wasgate spring/setup get her hit 14 15 pounds and then compare again. Definitely on to something with the comparing content loved the last one with b18 cam change. As always learn the most from huntertuned than any other honda related channel.
Awesome video. I went from a laggy rev9 6062 to a ball bearing psr3071 on my single vitara build and holy smokes what a difference. At 4k it’s making all the boost. Unfortunately I don’t have dyno data share prior to the swap but it’s making over 500 hp now.
Dope video and dope info. Thanks for sharing the greatness.
Oh im here for this!
Dude I love the side by side tech videos! P.S. S2000’s are the shit !!
Nice man! I can't wait to see more comparable!
Love these vids, very thorough 🙌🏼👌🏼 Good stuff Brotha 🤙🏼😎
God bless you Hunter 🙏🏼
Loved this vid!!!
U the man sheeeesh can’t wait till I finish my sons ef k24 hatch start having fun keep up the great work 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
Really good keep it up 👍🏻
I would overlay the your data from the data log to a compressor map and Check the back pressure in the exhaust manifold and in your case Check in down pipe as well. This will give you the best answer. Like you said "Your power goal is most important use smallest turbo to reach your power goal". I would add with out restricting exhaust flow so power doesn’t fall off up top. I love stuff like this. ❤❤❤
Pls keep on doing stuff like these!
Hunter, Thanks for doing these comparison videos. Very helpful in turbo buying choices. Seems like all K series and F series boost creep with that factory issue 44mm . Just going 60mm to AVOID the hassle.
Awesome test! Definitely crank boost to 15 psi with smaller turbo so we can see can waste gate handle the air flow.
Another great video
Great information, specially since I also have an S2000 and plan on going turbo.. Could you make an updated review on how are you liking the haltech ECU now that you are more familiar with it, that would be great.
Iam building a single cam build and I was considering that same turbo but from psr, can’t wait to see the results when you put it in a d16
Loving all the content man! I went to your website recently and wanted to ask, are you still offering tuning services? Or is that still on a case by case basis?
S2000 is perfection
Love your videos bro hope to have you tune my car
Yes please!
i would be willing to bet its much more mid range if you had a loaded dyno or a street log of boost vs rpm in fourth etc
Neat video! I want to book a dyno session with ya to see how my NC miata compares to that s2000. Opposite build method - medium turbo, long stroke and 7k max rpms. I'm making 15 psi by 2,600 when you start the pull. I think I'm around 420 hp, not sure.
Add some boost little bits at a time with fuel.... and document everything
What size turbo do you recommend for a k20 on stock internals? Thanks for your videos!
You should really feel the extra power in the midrange on the street
Would be nice to see exhaust back pressure. Boost will fall as back pressure increases
Hunta 🔥 🔥
The manifold pressure on the small turbo was probably starting to force the waste gate open
Hell yeah
Great comparison! I do feel it is a bit skewed towards the small turbo due to the very low boost levels used. At a 25 + psi the little turbo is going to generating a lot more heat and ita temp correction would hurt the result. Running e85 and good quality intercooler as you do is also helping the little turbo. Changing the rear housing to a bigger ar on the small turbo and smaller ar on the bigger turbo will bring the two closer together and help the back pressure on the little turbo. A 4 port boost controller will help the response of the bigger turbo also. In my experience it all depends on the intended use of the car, street ,drift or touge style use the smaller is better but drag racing it’s bigger turbo for me. The small turbo needs to be big enough so it doesn’t increase Iat too high with prolonged use and the bigger turbo needs to be small enough to remain on boost after the gear change. I would love to see the 5558 test! Thanks for teaching us all.👍
Haltech doesn’t have a quick spool feature for the 6262?
Lets match boost level on both turbos. A better tomorrow is a good wu tang song
It's flow rate in pounds per hour. A big turbo and small turbo at the same boost levels will not make the same power.. Garrett's website they have a bad ass breakdown of turbo efficiencies and thresholds and all that good stuff , so you can see how a turbo with X inducer at X psi and X speed / threshold can do. Then you get the hp numbers at that psi.
I couldnt click fast enough bro im going to up mine to a big boy this weekend gt2871 to gtx3076r
I have a gtx3076 on my k20a2 and it is awesome!
I made 600hp with a gtx3076r at 20ish psi on my s2000
🔥🔥🔥
Yea I say figure out how much boost does it take the smaller turbo need to match to the bigger one n see the difference
I’m definitely considering switching to a 48/49 from my 3076. On my little single cam. But someone isn’t answering my emails. 😢
Its all about turbo efficiency.. smaller turbo gives you more torque down the rpm than bigger turbo. Bigger turbo is laggier low rpm.
Its not about the turbo makes more boost. Small turbo needs more boost to make the same amount of power than a biger turbo would at the same boot level. Again its about efficiency.
I think what you're saying you have to turn the boost up to the same levels
Add 3 more psi over 5000 rpm with boost control and you'll be golden
Next you should fix your exhaust, and get a boost controller/ more waste spring.
Next next find a f22 long block as a spare.
Awhile ago I seen the Barney civic made like 620ish hp ? Was that still on Nippon Cast pistons and rods ? Also what’s the final number it made.
Are you located in Wisconsin? If so where? I feel like I’ve seen that s2000 before
Think the best compromise would be a 52/52.
With both turbos you're using now, the boost controller would be a huge benefit over the waste gate spring only. Which of course you know. This test, in my opinion is showing the benefit of the smaller turbo being quicker spool up on a waste gate only setup, but with a boost controller you can get close to the same spool up as the smaller turbo. The downside is presented with the smaller turbo in this test too, being the higher rpm drop off. Even if you were to match the psi level of the bigger turbo, the smaller turbo isn't going to flow the same volume so I doubt it will give you the same horsepower.
That's why, in my opinion, going with a 52/52 will give you the best overall power curve with lower boost levels than the 62/62. Should keep your power numbers in the same range up top while also increasing power levels in the lower rpm range.
Should make a difference.
Smaller turbo, is going to put more stress on your stock rods.
Where’s the 550s bro I’ve been needing some ☝️
time for compound :)
I just finished my prelude, I have a 3582 dbb turbo .63 housing. Car makes great power, but that turbo is massive to spool, what turbo size would you recommend.?
What power goal either a 48 or 58
I say if your going to daily, it would be better to have a bigger turbo just so it won’t spool up quick on the streets
305th from the UK.
I have a built Lsvtec on 8 pounds. I have a new manifold top mount and waiting to order one of your 6262. Now I’m thinking about getting the smaller one. I can’t wait for 20 psi. I may never come back home lol
6262 are rated for like 700 wheel. If you aren't trying yo make that much get something smaller!
@@PhantomShane914 what would you recommend?
@TrayneTracks what's your power goal and what fuel are you running?
@@PhantomShane914 1000cc fic 255 walbro hondata s300 e85
@TrayneTracks well you didn't give me a power goal, but 1000cc injectors on e85 are good to around 500 wheel horsepower at 60psi of fuel pressure. If that's what you want I recommend a Gtx3071r, specifically a Pulsar brand turbo.
Turn the boost up to match than run full 3 inch
Hunter ,do you know the thread pitch for the boost port on the 48/49???
1/8npt the other threaded nut is a speed sensor port
Did your oil feed fitting that came with the turbo have a super tiny hole ? I’m nervous it won’t be getting enough oil to the turbo
@@justinberry01 yes if it’s a ball bearing unit you purchased use the restricted fitting
IAT's seem ambient. what size intercooler?
Vs racing 31x12x4 thick 4 inch core helps a lot lol
Are your sure the boost isn’t running away because exhaust housing or wastegate is too small
Yea gates too small for the turbo size
When will the 1500cc injectors be back in stock?
That's what I'm wondering to. Wish when it said sold out there would be a option to preorder with estimated in-stock date.
I might add a pre order but I’m hoping in a week or 2 they have been delayed to be in stock twice now
same deal with the 1000s?@@HunterTuned
Where’s the single cam build !
Big or small did you ask her?lol 😂
i make 14psi at 3000 and 1120bhp.. k24. Try figure out how i do that without lookign at my page lol
Now to add a small nitrous shot to get the small turbo spinning quicker and something to get it up to 15lbs boost without the creep of the bigger turbo.
Less power = faster
Less power = CTR
Nobody would race a Honda that low in rpm…
Yoo is there aye way I can text yu
It’s my first time tryna do anything to my car and it’s not a lot of info for Acura tsx 05 builds
You're going to trigger the psi is irrelevant guys
I’ve been messaging for the past few weeks about restocking the injectors and this guy just leaves me on seen. Lol terrible communication
Sorry, I’ve been busy dealing with some family stuff and am not sure when the injectors will arrive back in stock. I’m out a ton of money currently hoping they will show up soon. Don’t take me not messaging back personal. Sorry
Get it up to 500 🫡🙏about to go ahead and buy my first k20a jdm vtec and looking into this option 👌