As someone who recently got into this hobby... its almost immediately offputting to see the amount of money ill have to spend only to get crushed by someone who spent 3 times as much as me.
I empathize with you. The price of this hobby is daunting and overwhelming at times. Like most hobbies, magic requires some amount of money to be spent to enjoy it. If you want to play commander (the target audience this video pertains to) I recommend taking things slow and build your collection over time. Don't expect any money back tho haha..😅
@BellPeppersWithBeef between the cost and the group i play with, who all have to win by turn three instead of playing comparably powered decks, i really feel like i wasted a lot of money to try and get into this shit to try and play with them. I even had this conversation with one of them, asking what the point of me playing was, since i dont have those expensive staples that can enable a turn 3 win, nor the money to get that stuff. I asked if we could just play precons or decks that would actually allow other players a chance, and it looked like i insulted him. As if im a madman for wanting to have fun with a hobby... Long story short, im desperately searching for a new playgroup that isnt full of people who need to flex on someone who doesnt even fully understand the game yet...
@@Smokie1523 I had the exact same experience when I started Commander. They refused to play anything lower power when I asked. Needless to say, I don't play with those sweatlords anymore.
I also don't mind playing against someone who has one or two copies of a single strong card in their deck, but I have played against people who have ALL the strong cards and it's not even fun to play anymore. It's more the people who use them to annihilate everyone else that are the problem. You need to make sure your opponent has fun as much as you have to think about winning. Otherwise (unless you're at a tournament), you're just a douchebag.
I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing brings me more joy than making a powerful deck with creative synergies and using a commander or combo that makes really bad cards into really good ones Not this generic, overused bullshit
Let me start by saying that I agree with you. I remember being a new player and feeling totally helpless against cards I didn't have and didn't know I could proxy, not to mention the financial investment for a game that I wasn't even sure that I would enjoy yet. I think that's the reason that commander pre-cons are a good measuring stick for power level, it keeps in mind the sort of players that won't interact with high-power gameplay because they sort can't. THAT is the casual power level. It's something that needs to be preserved, both for the health of the hobby, and because that's my favorite power level. 😅 However, I think it's helpful that many of the powerful cards listed were either accidents or built for 2-player. Dockside was called a mistake by (one of the devs? No reference. Sorry.) and Rhystic is not all that busted in legacy. Are they bannable? Well, maybe. There are 2 reasons that cards get banned: they are the ONLY viable strategy which cuts down on deck diversity therefore sucking the fun out of the game, or they put undue strain on necessary time constraints (think lantern control or eggs.) Unfortunately, this is an explicitly casual format. Games aren't being monitored or studied. Decks get built that aren't trying to win the fastest. Players self-police, make house ban lists, and customize their own games. Not to mention that you can't even restrict cards to one copy because it's a singleton format! Now, I think the game is more fun with the inclusion of resource-positive cards. I don't want to put a card in my deck unless it either gives me stuff or lets me win. That's natural. I think the question is with where that line is. But in EDH, there's theoretically no reason to ban cards because it's an explicitly casual format, and a lot of those problems are minimized by the singleton and color-restricted nature of the format. But I'm with you about those win-button sort of cards. That frustration is REAL. Because you're over here trying to have fun, but someone else is holding you hostage with a little deception and a fat wallet. It's the main reason I think the game would be healthier if CEDH players would make their own format--so the Commander ban-list can (theoretically) be tailored to the sort of players that do this for fun, and not the ones who try to win at all costs--even if that wouldn't solve ALL the problems. I would have appreciated a little clarity in your video. Some direction to what you have to say. A script maybe. What you have seems to be the rant of a player who showed up at his LGS and found that EVERY GAME was either CEDH, or tryhard good-stuff soup with someone winning on turn 4. It's no conversation that I haven't had with myself a hundred times. Which is why a little thought might have kept me watching. 🧡
Okay. Firstly, that's a lot of words, brain didn't wanna read it at first (kidding, I did with joy). I wanna say thank you for your careful thoughts and well put explanation of them. Secondly, you're correct (somewhat), I had a "script" which happened to be a word document that contained about 2 hours of brain vomit that I conjured up. (don't worry, I've already finished the script for the next video and have some people checking it for grammar mistakes and tips to convey my message) Thirdly, you do bring up points I never really thought of. The idea of banning a card in commander never really brings itself up when it comes to how I want to resolve issues that involve powerful cards. Because it's the equivalent to saying "why learn martial arts when you can learn to use a weapon" kind of thing. But overall I'm happy with how you conveyed your equal frustration about this topic, and something I'm even more ecstatic about is that you're doing exactly what I made this video to do. You presented your point of view on a very and I mean VERY convoluted and obscure issue in the commander format. Lastly I wanna say that since you didn't know (how could you, you don't know who I am lol). This video has been in the back of my mind for the better part of three months. And it's the culmination of many different commander related experiences that I have had in my four years of playing it. And also as someone who has gotten in and tried the CEDH format, a good part of my opinion originated from playing CEDH. All N' all, thank you for taking the time to voice your opinion. I hope you see more of it in my later videos as I post more soon.
Honestly, strong cards are never really the problem, Most people wouldn't run demonic con and Thassa in a casual deck. (Exept for a few expetions aka. pub stompers) What we found out in my playgroup/groups is, to talk about when a deck is supposed to win, like what turn does it win on, with no interaction. I have a very flexible Atraxa deck, Its just a slow grindy battlecruiser style deck, with plus counters, played it against precons and lost, even though i run stuff, like rhystic and smothering. We have one guy in our playgroup, plays Oskar rubbish reclaimer, he has the cedh rocks and alot of free interaction, but we play our casual decks against that and glad to have him, since his deck is essentially a strong dimir control deck, which is good to have at least one of at the table. You have some good points in the video, but generally the rule zero convo, is something i always have with a new pod, even though they dont really want to do it, i wanna know what im playing against power wise, so i can match and never really had a problem with, rhystics, smothering tithes and so on, i generally just hit the guy who has the best board state or has had the most advantage, for the longest and target them till they are taken down a notch.
1 player in my playgroup runs these OP cards. Games usually result in us other 3 players ganging up on one that player with the OP cards…and yes, sometimes that 1 single player still wins in that scenario. I’m at the point where I’m gonna play my “Vanilla”(all weak vanilla creatures) deck against him next time. Let him get bored of his own wins.
Fun story, dockside isn’t actually a good card to play in real casual. I’ve sat down at multiple tables with dockside in hand on turn 5+ and it made 3 or less mana. So, it gets exponentially better as power level increases.
That is a fair point, however I don't think it has to do with it going with power level. You can have an artifact/enchantment based pre-con in a pod and someone can cast a dockside to gain a large amount of mana to explode off of a two mana card. It makes sense that it does well into CEDH as many of the staples in that format revolve around free/cheap mana artifacts to gain massive amounts of ramp. I just think its a generally good card (mainly because if you are able to gain at least 3 treasures, so you have netted positive in mana that can be used at any time) that does even better against certain decks in the pod.
not true, not every casual deck is purely creatures Dockside punishes people for not running pure creature decks, basically punishes them for constructing a deck well
I mean, it does increase in power as the power level of the table increases, but keep in mind that even going up 1 mana on Dockside is nuts. People play Rituals in Commander that make you go up 1 mana all the time, and they aren't attached to a creature AND in the form of Treasures.
I implore all casual EDH players to try and play cEDH, at least for a few weeks. It can teach a casual player what the ceiling of the format can look like and there generally isn't any bad blood amongst cEDH players because of the premise. 1. Everyone understands that everyone at the table is aiming to win. Everyone is an opponent. It doesn't matter what strategy is used to get there. 2. cEDH is very open to proxies because nobody wants their opponents to be restricted to a pay wall. 3. There is no powerscale or power balance issues because everyone has the same goal: win as fast/efficiently as possible. If your deck is not performing how you thought it should, it is only the fault of the builder. Not the fault of the other players for bringing out strong decks. 4. cEDH games tend to be very fast paced and can teach a casual player a better understanding of resource management (i.e. holding open mana for removal, reducing mana curve to hold open said mana, ect.) It's just a better experience of what the format could look like if people were open enough to it.
CEDH is a friendly place to learn the specifics and nitty gritty rules interactions that most casual EDH players overlook. Personally, I learned the importance of each specific phase and how you can interact with it via abilities and interactions. I agree that many people should try it and I'll guarantee that people will lend decks. Overall a good thing to try for commander 👍
I don't doubt cedh could help people learn something about commander in general, but I don't find playing fully optimized strategies very fun nor would my playgroup ever agree to the philosophy of "anything goes as long as you win", I'll stick to my scarecrow tribal thanks. Didn't know cedh pods were proxy friendly though, that's very cool of them.
@@firestalker11 it's less of "anything goes as long as you win," and more like "anything goes because it's not against the rules." Nonetheless, I still implore your playgroup to try it for at least a few weeks to get a grasp on the concept.
@@kindalllowder3595 Right, but the problem is the RC doesn't update the list regularly enough to make problem cards "against the rules" like they should be.
@@Cybertech134 funny you should mention that, there has been an outcry from the cEDH community for a cEDH Rules Committee. We are currently finding the best representatives for the job. (I definitely think Underworld Breach should be banned. It's too good.)
Cards are a resource as well. The queen problem does exist and two good cards aren't as good as one great card. As far as them being restrictive... well commander is a casual format, just proxy.
As much as I do appreciate the allowance of proxying in this casual format (you're a real one if you allow people to use proxies in commander). I also enjoy the feeling of owning a semi expensive card and using it in a deck.
@@BellPeppersWithBeef Cool, nothing stops you from doing that. You are just being classist if you reject other people from doing so in a game with no money on the line or in a non-competitive setting. Not everyone is gonna spend $50+ dollars on a format staple. Just let people have fun.
It's great to find like minded individuals! This is a great video and agree. I think every deck is a work of art and I love seeing what people come up with.
I mean power creep is a problem, but individually powerful cards on their own aren't the issue with current magic design. The issue is cards that fundamentally break the rules of Magic's resource system. Dockside and Nadu are pushed, no question, but they can kind of be played around. You know what you can't play around? Pacts, evoke elementals, forces, etc. Those are way, way more problematic from a design standpoint.
I totally get your point. It makes sense that every card has some sort of cost affiliated with it. To remove those costs would mean to account for cards that are completely free and have minimal downsides. When in formats that remote efficient and optimize playing habits, the evoke and force cards just promote a "if you have the money you win" kind of setting.
it's not any one of those cards, its the sheer abundance of those cards in a deck that becomes a problem. If your deck runs Rhystic, Mystic, Esper Sentinel, Smothering tithe, Consecrated sphinx, the one ring, cyclonic rift your deck is not casual because you have too many high powered cards in your deck and you're going to crush everyone who also didn't all do the same.
This video started out hot with some bad takes but ended up super valid. I love achievement wins! I built a 10 deck cedh battle box with the restrictions that all the cards are under 3 cmc and all the decks are a diff 3 color slice. Also 6 of the commanders have attack/combat damage trigger so it encourages getting in there
Yeah I gotta weed out the haters in the beginning (kidding). Although my point sounds very see through and barebones, I genuinely tried to make a valid point that takes in all perspectives and arguments.
Firstly, you're never a "problem", and honestly, it depends. Do your friends/people in the pod you usually play with have the same kind of decks? If so then there's nothing wrong with playing those kinds of decks. However you need to recognize that you are not going to have the same playing experience with a different pod when you pull that deck out. If not then ask how your friends feel about the deck. If they're okay with it then continue having fun! If not then work out a compromise. You gotta communicate. Lastly, you're not a problem for having that deck. It's just the kind of deck you save for certain days or for certain pods. Trust me, I have my own too. As long as you recognize the cards you have in a deck and you communicate with others then there's no problem. :D remember to have fun!
Whats funny is when these tier‐0 and tier-1 decks go against me and brick their draws they call the game bad and me a bunch of cursewords because i love using unoptimal plays and cards, such as beating them up with a vanilla 5/1 in my zombie themed deck. They try to steal my stuff only to get not super busted things.
It kinda sounds like you don't understand that casual is a nebulous term, and not directly tied to good/efficient cards. You have an idea of what casual should be, but not what it is. Faulting effective deck building and calling it uncasual doesn't seem constructive, cuz you can casually play a high-power, or even just decently built, deck.
You have a point! Casual is a very fluid term and many different players from all across the world have a different general idea for it. However this video wasn't made for the idea of just casual playing (I made sure I never mentioned the idea or the word). Commander as a format (from what I've read and how the game operates in terms of winning and losing) is a game that has an end meant to have someone strive to win. I like playing to play more games and playing to continue having fun on a fair and even playing ground. In my eyes that means sometimes players will put everything strong in their deck and go to a shop. This often brings out a gaming experience that usually isn't "even" in strength. There's no fault in playing powerful cards, but in a multiplayer format, the fault of one deck can be detrimental to the pods ability to keep the game afloat. Also the point of the video (sorry if it was cloudy due to my wording it and how I presented the point) is to come together as a community and work with others to construct a positive and fun playing experience. I genuinely have no intention of putting people down for the things they try to do and how they play. Any misconstruing of that point due to the visuals or wording in the video is entirely my fault. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!!
@@BellPeppersWithBeef I'd say it's not a community, but rather a conglomeration of people with different views and opinions on the matter which is important to remember. And the fact of said matter is that we just have to play the game in a way we're not comfortable with on a pretty regular basis. That's endemic to multiplayer games, and part of the reason to play them. The cards exist to be used, and a banlist can rectify any problems they may lead to, but it shouldn't be a group endeavor to try and parse how acceptable it is to play within someone else's parameters of fun. This is an individual's conundrum to solve by virtue of them choosing to engage with it themselves, not the collective's duty to try and facilitate them and their expectations. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that people shouldn't be on the same page, but that page should really only be about what kinda games you plan on running and if anybody needs some testing done. I say just run the games with decks you want to build, and have some set aside for varying power levels that you can pick from as necessary, but labeling it the "community's" issue to solve feels somewhat disingenuous to a degree due to how varied the outlooks on can and should be.
I know what you mean, some cards are just straight up busted and people know this and it makes them feel big when they take it to their local game store and win, magic has kind of become about playing the most meta and best cards and not about being unique or being weird
I've noticed a trend of players bringing piles of staple cards and "good on their own" spells and calling to a "whatever" deck. It's not that it isn't the worst to play against..it just reduces uniqueness. Also remember that you shouldn't avoid these players, if they're in your pod, try to adjust to account for these strong cards. Luckily magic provides plenty of responses for these kinds of decks.
Bruh, have you ever played a format outside of commander? That's literally the entire history of the game. WOTC makes a strong card. People play the strong card because this is a game where the goal is to win. That's just how it is. You can still definitely try to play a certain strategy, but it might not work because of the formats restrictions, where other decks might thrive because of what's available.
I hate to be that guy, but most "annoying strong" cards weren't made with commander in mind. Because they were made for actual, real, constructed formats. It's ok, Wizard's just printed a commander card into a Modern set which has absolutely drained all the fun out of the format (pre ban), so now we know what it's like on our end.
Oh I totally know! There are some exceptions being cards printed inside a precon where the new cards from there are for specifically commander, such as dockside extortionist. I wasn't able to bring it up in the video, mainly because I didn't feel the need to expand on it (my bad). However you totally have a point.
"Beacause its the worst card in existence and makes everythuing suc so much omg" (kidding) One of my first couple games was against a chaos deck and it was really fun! With some of my decks I know I wouldn't enjoy the matchup. But with my big creatures deck I already know I'm going to be able to do some ridiculous stuff. It's one of those cards that needs to make the table consider what they bring to the pod before playing, like proxying really expensive cards like a mana crypt n stuff. Communication is key.
I feel ya I'm the I'm gonna sit here and make a wall guy who generally plays bad (not sure if its really on purpose anymore just kinda a habbit because its a feels bad to just get nuked out of left field)
I used to play with thieve's auction here's how it goes most of the time I cast thieve's auction with a busy board state. All the permanents enter tapped. The person after me in turn order untaps with a board full of creatures and swings me for lethal.
As someone who recently got into this hobby... its almost immediately offputting to see the amount of money ill have to spend only to get crushed by someone who spent 3 times as much as me.
I empathize with you. The price of this hobby is daunting and overwhelming at times. Like most hobbies, magic requires some amount of money to be spent to enjoy it.
If you want to play commander (the target audience this video pertains to) I recommend taking things slow and build your collection over time.
Don't expect any money back tho haha..😅
@BellPeppersWithBeef between the cost and the group i play with, who all have to win by turn three instead of playing comparably powered decks, i really feel like i wasted a lot of money to try and get into this shit to try and play with them. I even had this conversation with one of them, asking what the point of me playing was, since i dont have those expensive staples that can enable a turn 3 win, nor the money to get that stuff. I asked if we could just play precons or decks that would actually allow other players a chance, and it looked like i insulted him. As if im a madman for wanting to have fun with a hobby...
Long story short, im desperately searching for a new playgroup that isnt full of people who need to flex on someone who doesnt even fully understand the game yet...
@@Smokie1523 I had the exact same experience when I started Commander. They refused to play anything lower power when I asked. Needless to say, I don't play with those sweatlords anymore.
Maybe they would allow proxies @@Smokie1523
I recommend proxies, they open so many pathways
I love using strong cards, but i hate when they use it against me.
I also don't mind playing against someone who has one or two copies of a single strong card in their deck, but I have played against people who have ALL the strong cards and it's not even fun to play anymore. It's more the people who use them to annihilate everyone else that are the problem. You need to make sure your opponent has fun as much as you have to think about winning. Otherwise (unless you're at a tournament), you're just a douchebag.
I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing brings me more joy than making a powerful deck with creative synergies and using a commander or combo that makes really bad cards into really good ones
Not this generic, overused bullshit
Little aggressive with the message, but I love it
People be sleeping on my Brass Squire, until I start equipping and unattaching Sunforger at instant speed
Let me start by saying that I agree with you. I remember being a new player and feeling totally helpless against cards I didn't have and didn't know I could proxy, not to mention the financial investment for a game that I wasn't even sure that I would enjoy yet.
I think that's the reason that commander pre-cons are a good measuring stick for power level, it keeps in mind the sort of players that won't interact with high-power gameplay because they sort can't. THAT is the casual power level. It's something that needs to be preserved, both for the health of the hobby, and because that's my favorite power level. 😅
However, I think it's helpful that many of the powerful cards listed were either accidents or built for 2-player. Dockside was called a mistake by (one of the devs? No reference. Sorry.) and Rhystic is not all that busted in legacy.
Are they bannable? Well, maybe. There are 2 reasons that cards get banned: they are the ONLY viable strategy which cuts down on deck diversity therefore sucking the fun out of the game, or they put undue strain on necessary time constraints (think lantern control or eggs.)
Unfortunately, this is an explicitly casual format. Games aren't being monitored or studied. Decks get built that aren't trying to win the fastest. Players self-police, make house ban lists, and customize their own games. Not to mention that you can't even restrict cards to one copy because it's a singleton format!
Now, I think the game is more fun with the inclusion of resource-positive cards. I don't want to put a card in my deck unless it either gives me stuff or lets me win. That's natural. I think the question is with where that line is. But in EDH, there's theoretically no reason to ban cards because it's an explicitly casual format, and a lot of those problems are minimized by the singleton and color-restricted nature of the format.
But I'm with you about those win-button sort of cards. That frustration is REAL. Because you're over here trying to have fun, but someone else is holding you hostage with a little deception and a fat wallet. It's the main reason I think the game would be healthier if CEDH players would make their own format--so the Commander ban-list can (theoretically) be tailored to the sort of players that do this for fun, and not the ones who try to win at all costs--even if that wouldn't solve ALL the problems.
I would have appreciated a little clarity in your video. Some direction to what you have to say. A script maybe. What you have seems to be the rant of a player who showed up at his LGS and found that EVERY GAME was either CEDH, or tryhard good-stuff soup with someone winning on turn 4. It's no conversation that I haven't had with myself a hundred times. Which is why a little thought might have kept me watching. 🧡
Okay. Firstly, that's a lot of words, brain didn't wanna read it at first (kidding, I did with joy). I wanna say thank you for your careful thoughts and well put explanation of them.
Secondly, you're correct (somewhat), I had a "script" which happened to be a word document that contained about 2 hours of brain vomit that I conjured up. (don't worry, I've already finished the script for the next video and have some people checking it for grammar mistakes and tips to convey my message)
Thirdly, you do bring up points I never really thought of. The idea of banning a card in commander never really brings itself up when it comes to how I want to resolve issues that involve powerful cards. Because it's the equivalent to saying "why learn martial arts when you can learn to use a weapon" kind of thing.
But overall I'm happy with how you conveyed your equal frustration about this topic, and something I'm even more ecstatic about is that you're doing exactly what I made this video to do. You presented your point of view on a very and I mean VERY convoluted and obscure issue in the commander format.
Lastly I wanna say that since you didn't know (how could you, you don't know who I am lol). This video has been in the back of my mind for the better part of three months. And it's the culmination of many different commander related experiences that I have had in my four years of playing it. And also as someone who has gotten in and tried the CEDH format, a good part of my opinion originated from playing CEDH.
All N' all, thank you for taking the time to voice your opinion. I hope you see more of it in my later videos as I post more soon.
Honestly, strong cards are never really the problem, Most people wouldn't run demonic con and Thassa in a casual deck. (Exept for a few expetions aka. pub stompers)
What we found out in my playgroup/groups is, to talk about when a deck is supposed to win, like what turn does it win on, with no interaction.
I have a very flexible Atraxa deck, Its just a slow grindy battlecruiser style deck, with plus counters, played it against precons and lost, even though i run stuff, like rhystic and smothering.
We have one guy in our playgroup, plays Oskar rubbish reclaimer, he has the cedh rocks and alot of free interaction, but we play our casual decks against that and glad to have him, since his deck is essentially a strong dimir control deck, which is good to have at least one of at the table.
You have some good points in the video, but generally the rule zero convo, is something i always have with a new pod, even though they dont really want to do it, i wanna know what im playing against power wise, so i can match and never really had a problem with, rhystics, smothering tithes and so on, i generally just hit the guy who has the best board state or has had the most advantage, for the longest and target them till they are taken down a notch.
1 player in my playgroup runs these OP cards. Games usually result in us other 3 players ganging up on one that player with the OP cards…and yes, sometimes that 1 single player still wins in that scenario.
I’m at the point where I’m gonna play my “Vanilla”(all weak vanilla creatures) deck against him next time. Let him get bored of his own wins.
We all have those kinds of players in our pods.
Fun story, dockside isn’t actually a good card to play in real casual. I’ve sat down at multiple tables with dockside in hand on turn 5+ and it made 3 or less mana. So, it gets exponentially better as power level increases.
That is a fair point, however I don't think it has to do with it going with power level. You can have an artifact/enchantment based pre-con in a pod and someone can cast a dockside to gain a large amount of mana to explode off of a two mana card. It makes sense that it does well into CEDH as many of the staples in that format revolve around free/cheap mana artifacts to gain massive amounts of ramp. I just think its a generally good card (mainly because if you are able to gain at least 3 treasures, so you have netted positive in mana that can be used at any time) that does even better against certain decks in the pod.
not true, not every casual deck is purely creatures
Dockside punishes people for not running pure creature decks, basically punishes them for constructing a deck well
I mean, it does increase in power as the power level of the table increases, but keep in mind that even going up 1 mana on Dockside is nuts. People play Rituals in Commander that make you go up 1 mana all the time, and they aren't attached to a creature AND in the form of Treasures.
I implore all casual EDH players to try and play cEDH, at least for a few weeks. It can teach a casual player what the ceiling of the format can look like and there generally isn't any bad blood amongst cEDH players because of the premise.
1. Everyone understands that everyone at the table is aiming to win. Everyone is an opponent. It doesn't matter what strategy is used to get there.
2. cEDH is very open to proxies because nobody wants their opponents to be restricted to a pay wall.
3. There is no powerscale or power balance issues because everyone has the same goal: win as fast/efficiently as possible. If your deck is not performing how you thought it should, it is only the fault of the builder. Not the fault of the other players for bringing out strong decks.
4. cEDH games tend to be very fast paced and can teach a casual player a better understanding of resource management (i.e. holding open mana for removal, reducing mana curve to hold open said mana, ect.)
It's just a better experience of what the format could look like if people were open enough to it.
CEDH is a friendly place to learn the specifics and nitty gritty rules interactions that most casual EDH players overlook.
Personally, I learned the importance of each specific phase and how you can interact with it via abilities and interactions. I agree that many people should try it and I'll guarantee that people will lend decks.
Overall a good thing to try for commander 👍
I don't doubt cedh could help people learn something about commander in general, but I don't find playing fully optimized strategies very fun nor would my playgroup ever agree to the philosophy of "anything goes as long as you win", I'll stick to my scarecrow tribal thanks. Didn't know cedh pods were proxy friendly though, that's very cool of them.
@@firestalker11 it's less of "anything goes as long as you win," and more like "anything goes because it's not against the rules."
Nonetheless, I still implore your playgroup to try it for at least a few weeks to get a grasp on the concept.
@@kindalllowder3595 Right, but the problem is the RC doesn't update the list regularly enough to make problem cards "against the rules" like they should be.
@@Cybertech134 funny you should mention that, there has been an outcry from the cEDH community for a cEDH Rules Committee. We are currently finding the best representatives for the job. (I definitely think Underworld Breach should be banned. It's too good.)
In my opnion. Nobody hate strong cards, we hate dont have them
Just proxy
Laughs in Zurzoth Chaos
Cards are a resource as well. The queen problem does exist and two good cards aren't as good as one great card.
As far as them being restrictive... well commander is a casual format, just proxy.
As much as I do appreciate the allowance of proxying in this casual format (you're a real one if you allow people to use proxies in commander). I also enjoy the feeling of owning a semi expensive card and using it in a deck.
@@BellPeppersWithBeef Cool, nothing stops you from doing that. You are just being classist if you reject other people from doing so in a game with no money on the line or in a non-competitive setting.
Not everyone is gonna spend $50+ dollars on a format staple. Just let people have fun.
It's great to find like minded individuals!
This is a great video and agree. I think every deck is a work of art and I love seeing what people come up with.
I mean power creep is a problem, but individually powerful cards on their own aren't the issue with current magic design. The issue is cards that fundamentally break the rules of Magic's resource system. Dockside and Nadu are pushed, no question, but they can kind of be played around. You know what you can't play around? Pacts, evoke elementals, forces, etc. Those are way, way more problematic from a design standpoint.
I totally get your point. It makes sense that every card has some sort of cost affiliated with it. To remove those costs would mean to account for cards that are completely free and have minimal downsides.
When in formats that remote efficient and optimize playing habits, the evoke and force cards just promote a "if you have the money you win" kind of setting.
it's not any one of those cards, its the sheer abundance of those cards in a deck that becomes a problem.
If your deck runs Rhystic, Mystic, Esper Sentinel, Smothering tithe, Consecrated sphinx, the one ring, cyclonic rift your deck is not casual because you have too many high powered cards in your deck and you're going to crush everyone who also didn't all do the same.
This video started out hot with some bad takes but ended up super valid. I love achievement wins! I built a 10 deck cedh battle box with the restrictions that all the cards are under 3 cmc and all the decks are a diff 3 color slice. Also 6 of the commanders have attack/combat damage trigger so it encourages getting in there
Yeah I gotta weed out the haters in the beginning (kidding). Although my point sounds very see through and barebones, I genuinely tried to make a valid point that takes in all perspectives and arguments.
I just made an Edgar Markov EDH deck and I saw a lot of the cards I use in this video… am I part of the problem?
Firstly, you're never a "problem", and honestly, it depends. Do your friends/people in the pod you usually play with have the same kind of decks?
If so then there's nothing wrong with playing those kinds of decks. However you need to recognize that you are not going to have the same playing experience with a different pod when you pull that deck out.
If not then ask how your friends feel about the deck. If they're okay with it then continue having fun! If not then work out a compromise. You gotta communicate.
Lastly, you're not a problem for having that deck. It's just the kind of deck you save for certain days or for certain pods. Trust me, I have my own too. As long as you recognize the cards you have in a deck and you communicate with others then there's no problem. :D remember to have fun!
Great vid. What do you use to edit your videos?
Movavi video editor
Bro.... The amount off money just for a competitive commandr is ... 💀 And i was thinking my Kasthira deck (yugioh ) was expensive ...😅
>fun commanders
>child of alara
A very unique commander that offers a lot of creativity
@@BellPeppersWithBeef Yeah, but most people build it like Board Wipe Tribal.
my brother HATES it when i play my atraxa deck but this dude also has a admiral brass unsinkable AND pantlaza sun favored decks
"i dont like strong cards"
Yeah, voice physiognomy checks out 😂
Whats funny is when these tier‐0 and tier-1 decks go against me and brick their draws they call the game bad and me a bunch of cursewords because i love using unoptimal plays and cards, such as beating them up with a vanilla 5/1 in my zombie themed deck. They try to steal my stuff only to get not super busted things.
It kinda sounds like you don't understand that casual is a nebulous term, and not directly tied to good/efficient cards. You have an idea of what casual should be, but not what it is. Faulting effective deck building and calling it uncasual doesn't seem constructive, cuz you can casually play a high-power, or even just decently built, deck.
You have a point! Casual is a very fluid term and many different players from all across the world have a different general idea for it. However this video wasn't made for the idea of just casual playing (I made sure I never mentioned the idea or the word). Commander as a format (from what I've read and how the game operates in terms of winning and losing) is a game that has an end meant to have someone strive to win. I like playing to play more games and playing to continue having fun on a fair and even playing ground. In my eyes that means sometimes players will put everything strong in their deck and go to a shop. This often brings out a gaming experience that usually isn't "even" in strength.
There's no fault in playing powerful cards, but in a multiplayer format, the fault of one deck can be detrimental to the pods ability to keep the game afloat.
Also the point of the video (sorry if it was cloudy due to my wording it and how I presented the point) is to come together as a community and work with others to construct a positive and fun playing experience. I genuinely have no intention of putting people down for the things they try to do and how they play. Any misconstruing of that point due to the visuals or wording in the video is entirely my fault.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!!
@@BellPeppersWithBeef I'd say it's not a community, but rather a conglomeration of people with different views and opinions on the matter which is important to remember. And the fact of said matter is that we just have to play the game in a way we're not comfortable with on a pretty regular basis. That's endemic to multiplayer games, and part of the reason to play them. The cards exist to be used, and a banlist can rectify any problems they may lead to, but it shouldn't be a group endeavor to try and parse how acceptable it is to play within someone else's parameters of fun. This is an individual's conundrum to solve by virtue of them choosing to engage with it themselves, not the collective's duty to try and facilitate them and their expectations.
Keep in mind that I'm not saying that people shouldn't be on the same page, but that page should really only be about what kinda games you plan on running and if anybody needs some testing done. I say just run the games with decks you want to build, and have some set aside for varying power levels that you can pick from as necessary, but labeling it the "community's" issue to solve feels somewhat disingenuous to a degree due to how varied the outlooks on can and should be.
BRING MORE REMOVAL
I know they aint legal... Nivmizit the Firemind... Spellbook..... Alladin's lamp...
and I go by the card I have...
It says "Draw X Cards"
I know what you mean, some cards are just straight up busted and people know this and it makes them feel big when they take it to their local game store and win, magic has kind of become about playing the most meta and best cards and not about being unique or being weird
I've noticed a trend of players bringing piles of staple cards and "good on their own" spells and calling to a "whatever" deck. It's not that it isn't the worst to play against..it just reduces uniqueness.
Also remember that you shouldn't avoid these players, if they're in your pod, try to adjust to account for these strong cards. Luckily magic provides plenty of responses for these kinds of decks.
Bruh, have you ever played a format outside of commander? That's literally the entire history of the game. WOTC makes a strong card. People play the strong card because this is a game where the goal is to win. That's just how it is. You can still definitely try to play a certain strategy, but it might not work because of the formats restrictions, where other decks might thrive because of what's available.
I hate to be that guy, but most "annoying strong" cards weren't made with commander in mind. Because they were made for actual, real, constructed formats.
It's ok, Wizard's just printed a commander card into a Modern set which has absolutely drained all the fun out of the format (pre ban), so now we know what it's like on our end.
Oh I totally know! There are some exceptions being cards printed inside a precon where the new cards from there are for specifically commander, such as dockside extortionist.
I wasn't able to bring it up in the video, mainly because I didn't feel the need to expand on it (my bad). However you totally have a point.
Possibility Storm is so much fun wym
It slows the game to a crawl while everyone tries to resolve pseudo cascade. I'd rather have you stax me out
"Beacause its the worst card in existence and makes everythuing suc so much omg" (kidding)
One of my first couple games was against a chaos deck and it was really fun! With some of my decks I know I wouldn't enjoy the matchup. But with my big creatures deck I already know I'm going to be able to do some ridiculous stuff. It's one of those cards that needs to make the table consider what they bring to the pod before playing, like proxying really expensive cards like a mana crypt n stuff. Communication is key.
You might want to adjust your audio balancing. The background track was overpowering your voice
I HATE EXPENSIVE POWERFUL CARDS
coz its a PAY TO WIN scenario
Just proxy
I feel ya I'm the I'm gonna sit here and make a wall guy who generally plays bad (not sure if its really on purpose anymore just kinda a habbit because its a feels bad to just get nuked out of left field)
Nice video from 🇮🇹
I hate weak cards
Good video and agreee
3:23 is bro cheating with the lands
Just play pauper commander.
Big fan, I play it every thursday!
What a wild opinion xD
It's a bit out there and contrary to some. Hope you get the idea though 😅
Everybody does.
Thieves' Auction is best card
I used to play with thieve's auction here's how it goes most of the time
I cast thieve's auction with a busy board state.
All the permanents enter tapped.
The person after me in turn order untaps with a board full of creatures and swings me for lethal.
you are NOT magic the noha