East vs. West German Panzer Units | Hyperwar 1989

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  • Опубліковано 12 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 260

  • @TemplinInstitute
    @TemplinInstitute 11 місяців тому +846

    Just inject the Cold War content directly in my veeeeeins!!

    • @pyeitme508
      @pyeitme508 11 місяців тому +17

      👀

    • @4T3hM4kr0n
      @4T3hM4kr0n 11 місяців тому +43

      holy crap it's templininstitute

    • @BattleOrder
      @BattleOrder  11 місяців тому +112

      @@4T3hM4kr0n hit youtuber templin institute

    • @rihno4046
      @rihno4046 11 місяців тому +4

      WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE???????

    • @pyeitme508
      @pyeitme508 11 місяців тому +1

      ​@@BattleOrder 😂

  • @nicolocerri6453
    @nicolocerri6453 11 місяців тому +574

    Ok so expect a rework for armored units for the 2 Germany in Warno

    • @voidwalker9223
      @voidwalker9223 11 місяців тому +7

      Why aren’t all these units in there?

    • @nicolocerri6453
      @nicolocerri6453 11 місяців тому +30

      @@voidwalker9223 availabilty and veterancy can akways change

    • @finalthemickith476
      @finalthemickith476 11 місяців тому +20

      @@nicolocerri6453 WARNO is too arcadey and fast passed game with pretty graphics for realistic and proper unit structure to matter. (Maybe the Campaign can change that when its out)
      Combat Mission Cold war is better if you want real platoon, company and battalion type of battles.

    • @timothytimothy4854
      @timothytimothy4854 11 місяців тому +25

      ​@@finalthemickith476cmcw... A game set primarily in west Germany
      Doesn't have any west or east German units..

    • @finalthemickith476
      @finalthemickith476 11 місяців тому +1

      @@timothytimothy4854 They are being worked on can check the forums. Ill still take realism with missing units over a clicking spam game like WARNO

  • @MrFusselig
    @MrFusselig 11 місяців тому +303

    The 4 Tank per platoon in Soviet Doctrine is because of the organization of the motor rifle elements. In their task force composition, the one tank battalion with it's three companies gets split up to the three motor rifle battalions. The motor file battalion consist of 3 companies each, so each company gets one tank platoon. However, each motor rifle company has three motor rifle platoons and one heavy weapons platoon. These makes four platoons, and this is the reason for the four tanks. The tanks of the motor rifle regiments do not fight like tanks in tank regiments but together and ahead of the motor rifle elements.

    • @MrCosinuus
      @MrCosinuus 11 місяців тому +15

      What did the East German heavy weapons platoon have as equipment? Mortars? Heavy machine guns? ATGMs?

    • @MrFusselig
      @MrFusselig 11 місяців тому +34

      @@MrCosinuus it depends if it's a BMP or a BTR battalion, but yes, it's heavy machine guns like the PKM on tripod, heavy automatic grenade launcher AGS-17, then an anti tank section with ATGMs like AT-3, AT-4 or AT-7 combined with recoilless guns like the SPG-9, this heavy platoon was either used in flank protection, or as a support element in the attack, to suppress NATO anti-tank elements.

    • @tedarcher9120
      @tedarcher9120 11 місяців тому +2

      ​@@MrFusseligwhy did the hwp need it's own tank of it already had tons of firepower like mortars and atgms?

    • @MrFusselig
      @MrFusselig 11 місяців тому +19

      @@tedarcher9120 it's part of the OOB on the march, every motor rifle platoon has a tank on the march. The firepower of the motor rifle platoon is very difficult to be used in motion, as ATGMs and heavy machine guns need to be deployed first.
      The tank can be set into different roles, depending on the task, e.g. if it will be used as a combat recon patrol, a forward security element, or the main body of the attack, and therefore gives a lot of flexibility.
      It's part of soviet doctrine, to keep the organization simple, as you mainly deal with conscripts, while allowing for flexibility through predefined battle drills.
      The GDR formations were very close in their structure compared to the Soviet OOB.

    • @icantthinkofausername2605
      @icantthinkofausername2605 11 місяців тому +6

      ​@@tedarcher9120Same reason any infantry platoon needs a tank. Heavy armour adds momentum - sure a combat engineer or an infantryman with a rocket launcher can take out a machine gun nest, but a tank can do it much faster and is in much less danger when doing so. On the attack, where speed is key, that can be essential.
      Also, having your own tank is almost always preferable to relying on infantry with AT weapons when encountering enemy armour

  • @ak9989
    @ak9989 11 місяців тому +191

    I was an armor from 83 to 06. Two wars, but I really enjoyed the mid 80s training with the West German Panzer and Panzergrenadiers. I still have a 5th Panzer sign I was gifted in 85.

    • @admirbosnic4859
      @admirbosnic4859 11 місяців тому +2

      which wars?

    • @phunkracy
      @phunkracy 11 місяців тому +12

      @@admirbosnic4859 guess Iraq twice, no other US wars with armored divisions

    • @chawboy32
      @chawboy32 9 місяців тому +1

      What made you go armor?

  • @panic_2001
    @panic_2001 11 місяців тому +43

    Served in the 90/91 Bundeswehr, fifth armored division, Panzergrenadierbrigade 13 - full of memories thanks to the video

  • @zebart9012
    @zebart9012 11 місяців тому +12

    Another fantastic video, i thought christmas was over but nope, one more gift was to be given it seems

  •  11 місяців тому +6

    Interesting comparison and very well illustrated Video. Thank you 👍

  • @realQuiGon
    @realQuiGon 11 місяців тому +52

    Awesome video! I love the Cold War German stuff!

    • @HanSolo__
      @HanSolo__ 11 місяців тому

      Der HEER and sh!t, man.

  • @TheNorwegian
    @TheNorwegian 11 місяців тому +30

    It seems the German Mixed Battalions must've been what influenced the Norwegian Armour Battalions, which had two tank squadrons (= companies) and two assault (= mechanized infantry) squadrons, plus a support squadron with armoured mortars, M113s with TOW-launchers, and armoured scouts,

    • @stefanebert7171
      @stefanebert7171 11 місяців тому +2

      Ok 😂😂

    • @beansoz4818
      @beansoz4818 11 місяців тому +3

      im thinking its probably the other way around

  • @christianpethukov8155
    @christianpethukov8155 11 місяців тому +50

    You putting out this video is very timely for me. I'm a miniatures modern warfare gamer (1/600 scale, if anyone is interested) and working with some guys to repopularize the old Avalon Hill bookshelf games Panzerblitz and its updated Cold War counterpart Panzerblitz 80. Instead of counters, digitally printed vinyl maps and realistic tiny tanks are used. I am always trying to learn a little more about NATO and Warsaw Pact unit organizations. I'll be sharing this with a colleague of mine. Good stuff.

    • @BlindMonk93
      @BlindMonk93 11 місяців тому +5

      Got some Oddzial Osmy 1/600 Strykers today, just to see what they're like. So tiny but so detailed!

  • @archiegeorge3969
    @archiegeorge3969 11 місяців тому +26

    The 2x2 matrix is very handy for this kind of video. No other way you would have explained the NCO structure so clearly and efficiently! Nice!

  • @johna.760
    @johna.760 11 місяців тому +6

    It's a good day when Battle Order posts

  • @vonLindenau
    @vonLindenau 11 місяців тому +51

    Hey, great video I loved it. Because I am from Dresden myself - so East German - I really like these sort of comparative videos between East and West. Which brings me to my request. Can you make a video comparing the Artillery units or both beligerents? Probably best to focus on the artillery attached to the mechanized units.

    • @uroskostic8570
      @uroskostic8570 11 місяців тому +4

      I have interesting tought about DDR and BRD. Once Russians went out, DDR remained as independent country, while west Germany was still under occupational forces of US/UK, so not fully intdependent country. I think, its first time in modern history, that DDR-independent merged into BRD-occupied.

    • @vonLindenau
      @vonLindenau 11 місяців тому +7

      @@uroskostic8570 The thing is, neither DDR or BRD were ever leg completely by occupational forces. The soviet union, just like the US today at Rammstein, had bases in the DDR where they had soviet troops stationed all year round. In that regard i think BRD and GDR are comparable. Just that from what i’ve heard interacting with the US troops as a westerner was no big deal. On the other hand, as a GDR citizen you wanted as little contact to the soviet soldiers as possible.

    • @quan-uo5ws
      @quan-uo5ws 8 місяців тому +2

      @@uroskostic8570 The russians had forces in germany until 1994.

  • @WWFanatic0
    @WWFanatic0 11 місяців тому +5

    My understanding of the "square" format for tanks in infantry units was to be able to provide tank support to each infantry element while still having a reserve. If you have one tank battalion and three motorized battalions, that means each can get one tank company attached to it and one tank company in reserve. Conversely you can attached two to the first and second motorized battalion with the third motorized battalion being held in reserve. That would allow a motorized battalion to have an armored element that can provide overwatch while another maneuvers with the motorized force. Assuming three motorized units and one armored unit with 4 sub units you can emulate this all the way down.

  • @Galaxy-o2e
    @Galaxy-o2e 11 місяців тому +9

    My special interest is warfare, I love studying warfare at the tactical, operational, and strategic level. I love seeing how technology will impact the lethality of warfare. Using an armed force for the interest of my state, my leader, or myself arouses me.

  • @nagmashot
    @nagmashot 11 місяців тому +11

    I was 1989-90 driver of the Leo2 A4 of the company comander 4./33 Panzerbattalion....
    1. there was no such thing as reserve crew
    2. the standart company comander Jeep of the time was the VW Iltis(Wolf was slowly getting into the Bw but as usual they were first delivered to higher ranking officers till lower level company commander got their hands on them)
    3. no motorbikes in the company only Unimog and 5to
    platoons
    3x4 Leo2 A4 platoons, 1platoon lead by a Oberleutnant a Fahnenjunker and 2 Unteroffizier, 2platoon lead by a Hauptfeldwebel and a Feldwebel and 2 Unteroffizier, 3Platoon like 2
    .
    company comander
    1x Leo2 A4 company comander (Hauptmann), gunner Oberfeldwebel (one of the 2Feldwebel of the Company NCO) driver Hauptgefreiter, loader switched
    1X VW Iltis (driver was one of the three soldiers of the Spieß)
    internal organisation
    company NCO "mother of the company" in my unit Stabsfeldwebel or Oberstabsfeldwebel (my first one was Oberstabsfeldwebel short befor retirement, my second one was Hauptfeldwebel as he join the company but was instantly promoted to Stabsfeldwebel) 2 Feldwebel and 3 soldiers
    1x Unimog
    1x 5to
    driven by the soldiers under company NCO comand

    • @ВосславьСолнце-е5х
      @ВосславьСолнце-е5х 11 місяців тому

      Привет из России, мне интересно в каком состоянии сейчас находятся бронетанковые войска Германии? Смотрел разные материалы, в этих видео жаловались на удручающее положение армии, правда ли это?

    • @daseinzigwahrem
      @daseinzigwahrem 11 місяців тому

      ​@@ВосславьСолнце-е5хThe Bundeswehr is a lot weaker than in 1989, but then, so are you. Plus, German media loves to turn even small issues into giant dramas.

    • @justrandomguy5010
      @justrandomguy5010 11 місяців тому +2

      You are arguing with a dude who recites any info he gets from the internet to earn ad money. I dont think he cares.

    • @nagmashot
      @nagmashot 11 місяців тому +1

      @@ВосславьСолнце-е5х maybee on RT news... reality, the tank troop is growing again, the german Army just recived its new 104 ordered Leo2 A7V, the Leo2 A7A1 comes this year (with Trophy hard kill system) and August 2025 comes the Leo2 A8 were currently no photos or detailed infromation are avaible ... in August 2023 they ordered new ammunition for Leo2 in great numbers.. DM11 programable 120mm HE ammo and its training round and DM73 and its training round, the DM73 in combination with the Rheinmetall 120L55A1 gun (A7V, A7A1, A8, A7HU, A7M DK) is designed to knock out T-14 Armata at 2km range ... so the german Army has the weapon to destroy russian future tank that is still not in production or service... after the A8 comes the Leo2 X which will be the final version of the Leo2 till it get replaced by a new MBT. The Army recive new PzH2000 as a replacment for the units sent to Ukraine were they run havoc on the russians...and they ordered new RCH155 wheeled howitzer ~160units as addition to the PzH2000 ... they get integrated into the "mittlere Kräfte" units able to cover long distances on its own wheeles because they have no tracked vehicles, almost all of their vehicles are based on the Boxer 8x8 including the RCH155... which is the first and only tube arty able to fire on the move... with a two men crew... the German Army get 71billion € budget this year... which is mind blowing if you take into account that only for a Army with less than 200.000 soldiers... the new minister of defence was the rigth choose at the rigth time to speed up the reform and transition of the german Army
      Currently the German Army has many projects pushed since the russian terrorist attack on Ukraine... here is no old crap used, like in the russian Army, were they pull out 60 or 70yo tanks to get toasted on the battle field with their untrained crew, in the Ukraine meat grinder which produce a endless stream of russian cargo200 ;) we will happy deliver the Ukraine more tools to increase their russian cargo 200 production... maybee the bunker grandpa under the Kremlin realize one day that he cant win..or maybee the orcs weak up one day and throw him out of a window and seek peace

    • @PhilipFry.
      @PhilipFry. 7 місяців тому

      ​@@ВосславьСолнце-е5хReicht immernoch um Ivan zusammen mit der NATO zurück in den Kreml zu drängen

  • @ostellan
    @ostellan 11 місяців тому +6

    This a great explanation video! Btw love the use of COD3 music for the video

  • @MrDK0010
    @MrDK0010 11 місяців тому +6

    Another day, another banger.

  • @mrmanire
    @mrmanire 11 місяців тому +5

    Fantastic video. Thanks!

  • @MikaelKKarlsson
    @MikaelKKarlsson 11 місяців тому +7

    In case anyone is looking to make a good "Battlefield" game again, study this video. In fact, start every meeting with it.

  • @HanSolo__
    @HanSolo__ 11 місяців тому +2

    4:04 MZ Etz250 motorcycle for the Deputy of Equipment...
    5:28 ...a half-ton G-Wagen "WOLF" by Steyr-Daimler-Puch and
    5:30 3× Maico M 250 B motorcycles for messengers.

  • @spartagrad1482
    @spartagrad1482 11 місяців тому +4

    Love the background music. Call of duty 3 had a great soundtrack and is so memorable.

  • @freeheelski6284
    @freeheelski6284 11 місяців тому +6

    Thanks Battle Order, great video and really appreciated. Hopefully other Team Yankee players will have found that as useful as l did. Great stuff, next…Marder v BMP Panzergrenadiers..!

  • @Steven-dt5nu
    @Steven-dt5nu 11 місяців тому

    Enjoying your videos and delivering. I like how comprehensive it is.

  • @HanSolo__
    @HanSolo__ 11 місяців тому +38

    The German T-55 AM was at least just as capable as the T-55 AM "Merida". It means a much younger T-72M/M1 lacked in FCS, range measure, and optics. T-55 AM could use his analogue ballistic calculator to calculate whether corrections, terrain slope, etc. The improved stabilizer, but still not better than the set from the T-72, allowed shooting quite accurately right after stopping the tank at about 1500 m.

    • @historyisawesome6399
      @historyisawesome6399 11 місяців тому +1

      We when your “allies” dont trust you. You tend to get the bottom of the barrel

  • @andrewjohnclose429
    @andrewjohnclose429 11 місяців тому +7

    That was fascinating. I have been waiting and hoping for you to examine HEER Panzer and Panzergrenedier unit structures. Out of interest, would you consider looking into the evolution of the Bundeswehr Aufklarungbataillons?

  • @NorthernNorthdude91749
    @NorthernNorthdude91749 11 місяців тому +34

    Hello. From 1983 to 1988, I served in a DDR armor unit (21st Armor Regiment of the 9th Armor Division). My duty first was as a driver for a T-72 type tank, and then I was changed to being a gunner. During the 80s, we were very concerned that NATO would launch an invasion and we were told to be ready to mobilize at a moments notice. I was very proud to serve since back then I was a strong supporter of the workers revolution against capitalism (I still am and believe Germany will become communist again). During a training operation between several parts of the division, the unit commander had us all gather and he mentioned the enemy American and occupied territory (what we called the invalid capitalist Germany) tanks, the Abrams and Leopard. We were confident we could win in a fight, but one thing he said that sticks to me is "be careful when he sights your sides or back up, or because of your ammo carousel you might be the first German on the moon!" It was morbid but we couldn't help but laugh. Great video talking about our unit make up.
    Sorry for the bad spelling or grammar, I am not so good with English and had to use internet translation for some.

    • @rasputinka2668
      @rasputinka2668 11 місяців тому

      UA-cam's cleared my message. Can I ask you to give me your contact? I wanted to ask you about your service.

    • @axdde6428
      @axdde6428 8 місяців тому

      nationalism without capitalism and socialism without internationalism
      AH
      also werner did design the rocket to the moon and germany was the first to shoot something up to space in 1944

    • @rasputinka2668
      @rasputinka2668 8 місяців тому +6

      @@axdde6428 Nie wieder.

    • @CirKhan
      @CirKhan 6 місяців тому +3

      Vielen Dank für Ihren Dienst, Kamerad

  • @ramal5708
    @ramal5708 11 місяців тому +9

    Can you do a video on Turkish 1974 invasion of cyprus battle order, in terms of their equipment they had a mix of every weapons from the West like Thompson SMG for NCOs and Officers, FAL and G3 for regular riflemen and Bren, GPMG or MG3 for MG gunner?

  • @m.b.9688
    @m.b.9688 11 місяців тому +13

    Ah thank you very much. I will double check with my Panzer Guys later if it was so back in the days(West,2A2-2A4 Ex Tank Commanders. But still in Service). Some Reserve NCO still have good Experience to share. Germany dosnt have that much Cold War Content of that specific

  • @chrisS25
    @chrisS25 11 місяців тому +2

    Great job on that video! I'm a big fan of your cold war content, especially with regard to Germany as the most likely site for a potential WW3 (which fortunately never happened!). By the way: your pronounciation of German terms is almost flawless ;)

  • @IoachimSavianPopovici
    @IoachimSavianPopovici 11 місяців тому

    Oh... shit! I'm always so hyped whenever you post a new video. The subjects are so fucking interesting to me 😍

  • @ak9989
    @ak9989 11 місяців тому +12

    We use to see the East Germans on the border playing with a ball while using their AK rifle butts to hit the ball 😂

  • @Arooo_1
    @Arooo_1 11 місяців тому +1

    i like how you make learning fun :)

  • @neurofiedyamato8763
    @neurofiedyamato8763 11 місяців тому +6

    I personally think the 60s and 80s are the most interesting times for cold war ground forces. Big transitions during both periods.
    1:52 is written in a bit of a ambiguously. This line makes it sound like either:
    1) You are speculating that East Germany operated 4 tanks per platoon in the motor rifles.
    2) You are speculating WHY they operate 4 instead of 3 tanks per platoon in the motor rifles.
    I thought you meant the first when I first heard it. But you specified the difference with such confidence in the section before I thought i was misinterpreting it. I had to replay this section 2 times before I understood you meant the latter (I think...). I felt like i just wanted to point this out so you can address in case others got confused like me.

    • @BattleOrder
      @BattleOrder  10 місяців тому +1

      I am speculating why they operated 4-tank platoons in the Motor Rifles, as opposed to if they did because we know they did

  • @SandmanM.
    @SandmanM. 11 місяців тому +8

    I Love Cold War Content! And I Love This Already Keep Up The Good Work!
    Edit:I Love This Vid Already

  • @cyberarchitect9280
    @cyberarchitect9280 11 місяців тому +18

    This video was awsome, I can hardly find any sorts of video of the German Military structures during the cold war. Now you started to fill the gap. Argue with me but the Bundeswhr should look back at its old picture, because nowadays in the shadow if a Second Cold War this is the Germany army that Europe needs (the West German mostly but East German wasn't bad either). And most of the countries should do so. The equipment is newer and shinier but the strenght disappeared. The Polish have realized it, and maybe we Hungarians too (it's pity under eeehhh bad rule). Anyhow put the politics away I usually don't like long videos but this 10 minuteish video was the one that I most enjoyed in this month, thank you for it!

    • @woli6872
      @woli6872 11 місяців тому

      You are right about videos but check Wiki with Heeresstruktur 4 and you find a ton of data. And here: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliederung_des_Feldheeres_(Bundeswehr,_Heeresstruktur_4)

    • @hedgehog3180
      @hedgehog3180 11 місяців тому

      Well modern day Germany doesn't exactly have any threats on its border so it makes more sense to focus on force projection so they can sustainably deploy units in Eastern Europe and help defend the oceans.

    • @cyberarchitect9280
      @cyberarchitect9280 11 місяців тому +2

      @@hedgehog3180 Nowadays not only the borderthreats matter

    • @woli6872
      @woli6872 11 місяців тому +1

      @@hedgehog3180 It's not very wise being prepared only for actual threats. Changing a strategy and orbat can easily take 10+ years. What if new arising threats don't want to wait?

  • @arrogleinadtra
    @arrogleinadtra 8 місяців тому +1

    The east german had a t55am1 tank fitted with new electronics and other equipments like laser range finder

  • @dylanlowers5236
    @dylanlowers5236 11 місяців тому +3

    I just started playing the Global Mobilization dlc again on ARMA 3 what a coincidence

  • @coleagnew691
    @coleagnew691 Місяць тому +1

    Are you ever going to make more hyperwar videos?

  • @goldenhide
    @goldenhide 11 місяців тому +1

    Y'all might want to be more careful on tne final checks, I've noticed an uptick in the script and graphics being incongruent in the last few videos. Definitely can cause some confusion there.
    This one at 1:00 you say "30th Panzer Brigade," and the graphic says "30th Panzergrenadier Brigade."

  • @the_Kutonarch
    @the_Kutonarch 11 місяців тому +2

    God, I just love those East German helmets.

  • @glubokayaoperatsiya
    @glubokayaoperatsiya 11 місяців тому +9

    you should totally do one on soviet forces in germany and czechoslovakia (soviet forces in those countries would also be the first line, with poland the second echelon) and on V and VII corps

    • @sergeyboychuck8872
      @sergeyboychuck8872 11 місяців тому +8

      if i remember correct, Poland would form their own front ( 3 field and 1 tank army/corps) in one of groups of fronts. Polish coastal division will also serve as prime marine unit for Warsaw pact (that why they build so many LST😀).

    • @glubokayaoperatsiya
      @glubokayaoperatsiya 11 місяців тому

      polish marine units would have fallen under baltic front, deployed northward as flank cover and invaded denmark and yes, polish group of forces would have formed the second echelon front (2 soviet tank divisions, 5 polish tank divisions and 8 polish motor rifle divisions) after the three fronts in first echelon (2 in germany, 1 in czechoslovakia)@@sergeyboychuck8872

    • @HanSolo__
      @HanSolo__ 11 місяців тому +2

      @@sergeyboychuck8872 Tip of the spear.
      Solid Soviet soldiers valued common exercises in the Polish training rigour the most. Back in Russia, 50%+ of them aspired to get into the elite units. The Polish Tour was a favour to the most important, to those who paid, to legit best soldiers, or worse ;)
      Polish training (pain) gave them skills and good experience in real-range firing practice. It worked like a spring to get you the best tank units, best bases, best officers, best ship crew etc

    • @sergeyboychuck8872
      @sergeyboychuck8872 11 місяців тому

      @@glubokayaoperatsiya you describe the NATO attack variant.
      in cause of Soviet attack Poland will form their own front from peacetime structure (9 mech+4 tank divisions) and will fight against NATO north army group (as part of group of fronts). Also, in cause of Soviet attack a lot of armies will arrive from western part of USSR, and they will triple the size of Soviet force. If i remember correct, 9 to 11 fronts will be activated and at least 2 groups of fronts will be formed.
      Czechoslovakia (in cause of Soviet attack) will also form their own front (they have the structure for front in peacetime) by activating reserve.
      the Polish coastal marine division will double the size of numbered mech regiments (from 3 to 6) in war time. Reserve regiments will serve as coastal defense, while peacetime ready regiments fulfill the role of marine assault on Denmark/West Germany.
      the cold war situation on Baltic was funny - West Germany plus Denmark would defend itself in any scenario. Polish navy played key-role in Warsaw pact Baltic scenario. Soviet Baltic fleet played supporting role for Polish Navy - to support Polish marine assaults with cruisers/destroyers and provide aviation assets to joint DDR/Poland attempt to eliminate NATO surface forces in Baltics.
      they were t

  • @3211SD
    @3211SD Місяць тому

    You should do old British tank brigades. We used to have 3 tank platoons. It was designed so that 2 tanks would cover while one moved forward. Then again 2 cover one move . It was because they couldn't hit anything if they were moving. Slow but methodical. Same tactic with boats on rivers . Then we went to 4 like Americans and 2 by 2 bounds ,with more modern tanks , which is faster and technology alowed them to fire on the move . I imagine east Germany had the same ideas

  • @20goodmen72
    @20goodmen72 11 місяців тому +5

    Can you do a video on East German motorized infantry tactics?

    • @EpicThe112
      @EpicThe112 11 місяців тому +1

      There is a video on that already on the channel

  • @b.domonkos8694
    @b.domonkos8694 11 місяців тому +1

    Hi, very good video
    Could you also make a video about support units, such as artillery?

  • @saturnv2419
    @saturnv2419 11 місяців тому +13

    West German Leopard 1 in Ukraine service: Never thought I would fight side by side with you.
    East German T-72 also in Ukraine service: Me neither bro.

    • @sergeyboychuck8872
      @sergeyboychuck8872 11 місяців тому +2

      Ha! do research about FrankenSAM project. it will blow your mind

    • @phunkracy
      @phunkracy 11 місяців тому +2

      Russian T-72: first time?

    • @daseinzigwahrem
      @daseinzigwahrem 11 місяців тому +1

      "Never thoght I'd fight side by side with a Wessi"

  • @aydanvanderspek6018
    @aydanvanderspek6018 2 місяці тому +1

    Warno mentioned!!

  • @ФедяКрюков-в6ь
    @ФедяКрюков-в6ь 7 місяців тому

    Four tanks in motor infantry is simply for better combat resiliency, because tanks were usually attached to infantry in much smaller formations than in tank units

  • @germanofficer980
    @germanofficer980 11 місяців тому +4

    Attempt 2 of asking Battle Order to do an evolution of the organization of the British paratrooper squad, since its formation in the 1940s, to the 1960s, to the Falklands War in 1982, and the current Parachute Regiment.

    • @norbi1411
      @norbi1411 11 місяців тому +3

      same model as the rest of the army

    • @tomsoki5738
      @tomsoki5738 11 місяців тому

      @@norbi1411not really, completely different equipment and obviously lots of speciality stuff. And the organisation has only been the same on a small scale quite recently

    • @norbi1411
      @norbi1411 11 місяців тому +1

      @@tomsoki5738 since the 50s is recently to you? ok...

    • @tomsoki5738
      @tomsoki5738 11 місяців тому

      @@norbi1411 Operationally it has only been the same since the disbanding of 16 Air Assault Brigade, which was 3 years ago I believe.

  • @kuhlenzo4410
    @kuhlenzo4410 11 місяців тому

    Thank you for making a video about a german unit.👍

  • @christopherwang4392
    @christopherwang4392 11 місяців тому +4

    A Swedish modeler named Björn Bäcklund claimed that after the Cold War, there was a proposal in Poland to rebuild its T-72s with turrets from the Leopard 2. Does anyone know if there really were conversion proposals to combine the hull of the T-72 with the turret of the Leopard 2?

    • @Danickgerman
      @Danickgerman 11 місяців тому +2

      A similar upgrade system was done in India, called Tank ex where Arjun tank (which was developed party with the help of by Krauss-Maffei and is nearly identical to Leo 2)'s turret was placed on a T-72. It was cancelled and the prototypes are used for development purposes by DRDO

    • @hedgehog3180
      @hedgehog3180 11 місяців тому

      Considering the vast differences in the design doctrine behind those thanks I think something like that would be practically impossible.

    • @mariuszgadomski3860
      @mariuszgadomski3860 11 місяців тому +2

      T72 Polska zmodernizowała znacząco praktycznie swój własny czołg na początku lat 1990. Nazywa się PT91 Twardy .
      Otrzymał nowy silnik, mocniejszy pancerz, system Erawa,kostki na zewnątrz, podczerwień i wiele innych ulepszeń. Teraz Polska oddała dużo PT 91 Twardy na Ukraine. Ponieważ czeka na zamówione najnowsze K2 z Korei i Abramsy z USA

    • @phunkracy
      @phunkracy 11 місяців тому

      There wasnt, Leo2 turret didnt fit for the hull and there was no space to accomodate 4th crew member within already cramped T72 . But there was a proposal to mount a slimmed down Leclerc turret, far more viable due to autoloader. Technically possible, but far too expensive for the severely underfunded Polish military at the time. Besides, turret houses the majority of the expensive systems in the tank, so with an entirely new turret you might as well buy an entirely new tank.

  • @RandomGuy-hr8sb
    @RandomGuy-hr8sb 11 місяців тому

    Amazing, it may not be possible, but more comparison videos would be neat.

  • @adrianstocker2199
    @adrianstocker2199 11 місяців тому +2

    Excellent video as always but was confused on 55 tanks in a Bundeswehr PG brigade? It was drilled into our heads that a Pz Div had 308 tanks, a PG Div had 252 tanks - Germans being percise and even numbers after all lol. (1st Geb Div was a hybrid - Pz Bde/PG Bde/Geb Bde). I went back to our West German handouts from the Armor School to confirm. It states 54 (41 in the Pz Bn and 13 in the mixed Bn). Neither Brigade type Headquarters had tanks in them. The pamphlet was put together by our German Army Liason Officer. Source: Heeresverbindungsstab 3 German Army Liason Staff US Army Armor Center Fort Knox, KY 40121 dated 09.11.88 also on a side note: 20. PR (NVA - 20 MSD) last commander stated he had 1 PB with 31 T-72, 1 PB with T-55 and 1 PB with a mix of T-72s and T-55s for a total of 45 T-72 available for training. I can also confirm this from the AZ-20/20.MSD chronicles.
    The introduction of 41 T-72s took place in 1986/87 and a further 4 T-72s were added in 1989 (possibly from the PR-23/9. PZ Div). So at the end there were T-72s in the MSD albeit a mobilization division. *The 9. Pz Div had 21 BMP-2s in the MSR-9 (10 in 3MSK , 10 in 6 MSK and 1 command version later in 1985 ... the other 3 for a total of 24 went to the following: 2 to AZ-20 [20.MSD] and 1 to OHS-Löbau)

    • @BattleOrder
      @BattleOrder  11 місяців тому

      13 in the mixed battalion’s one tank company (for PG brigades), but then also 1 in the battalion HQ. So 41 + 14 = 55. In the Pz Brigade its 41 + 41 + 28 = 110 because the mixed battalion had two companies and two tanks in the battalion HQ. Adding 110 + 110 + 55 + 34 from the armored recon battalion = 309

    • @adrianstocker2199
      @adrianstocker2199 11 місяців тому +2

      @@BattleOrder The mixed battalion in a PG Bde is a PG Bn hybrid and therefore no tanks in the headquarters (24 IFV/13 Tanks - 11 IFV x 2 Co's + 13 Tank Co + 2 IFV headquarters) ... whereas the mixed bn in a PZ Bde was a PZ Bn hybrid (28 tanks/11 IFV - 13 Tanks x 2 Co's + 11 IFV Co + 2 Tanks headquarters)

    • @BattleOrder
      @BattleOrder  11 місяців тому

      @@adrianstocker2199 according to Blume’s book on the 13th Panzergrenadier Brigade their mixed battalion had 1 tank in their battalion HQ, as opposed to the normal 2

    • @adrianstocker2199
      @adrianstocker2199 11 місяців тому

      @@BattleOrder every division is going to be a little different. I served in Europe for 13 plus years and interacted with the German Army from division to corps to Army level. I retired as a LTC after being severely injured in Iraq (disabled veteran). We are both correct .... Every division in the world to include the US Army divisions will have a bit of variation (MTO&E) but the standard German TO&E is stated above. For example during the Gulf War several VII Corps divisions "added Tanks" to our divisional reconnaissance squadrons (e.g. 1-4 Cav) which was not doctrinal (many divisional commanders having cut their teeth in ACRs as younger officers wanted the increase fire power) ... even the BRO (1st Inf Div) CG had a tank (now show me that in a Mechanized Infantry Division TO&E lol)

    • @adrianstocker2199
      @adrianstocker2199 11 місяців тому

      I appreciate your videos and all your hard work. Kudos for a job well done.

  • @istvanszoke381
    @istvanszoke381 11 місяців тому +7

    What happened to east germans arms after East Gemany had ceased to exist?

    • @jonny2954
      @jonny2954 10 місяців тому +8

      Sold off. Finland has some of it still in service.

    • @MrWasGehtSieDasAn01
      @MrWasGehtSieDasAn01 10 місяців тому +7

      Sold or scrapped.
      There were a few systems that remained in the Bundeswehr to represent the enemy during exercises, but that was it.

    • @captainfreedom3649
      @captainfreedom3649 3 місяці тому

      Some were given to Croatian militants in the early 90s.

  • @Eminence_in_shadow
    @Eminence_in_shadow 9 місяців тому +3

    Average warno experience

  • @pyeitme508
    @pyeitme508 11 місяців тому +1

    Awesome 👍

  • @wilhelm2462
    @wilhelm2462 11 місяців тому

    Is there any plan on a Video for weapons and equipment of west german medics or medics in general? I always try to find out what weapons those would have. I think medics back then would prob get a P1, MP2 (uzi) or MP5 but I'm not really sure and failed to find stuff on wikipedia about structures and equipment which is sad because cold war is fascinating af.

  • @VitaminsB1212
    @VitaminsB1212 11 місяців тому +2

    It's kind of shocking to me that the West German company only had 2 officers in it, that's a shit load of administrative load for just two guys to handle, even if you expect your SNCOs to pick up the slack that's still a lot of work to fall on just two guys. It also means officer casualties would disproportionately impact them at the company level, that one LT is going to be in the thick of the fighting and would have a pretty high chance of becoming a casualty, that would just leave a single officer for the whole company, HQ tank gets hit and now the entire unit is out of officers? Clearly the West Germans were fine with NCOs taking on heavy command and admin taskings but living in a situation where a SNCOs is two shots away from being the senior man in a company is wild to me. Why not at least have an LT as XO at C HQ? He'd gain valuable command experience and also be able to tackle admin stuff while enabling some casualty absorption. Junior officers LTs and CPTs almost always have among the highest casualty rates in combat weird the Germans, with their experience in WW2 just ignored that?

    • @9thbloodandfire508
      @9thbloodandfire508 11 місяців тому +2

      Although I am not sure if that was the case during the "Heeresstruktur IV," but I think there was a officer as XO. Though, I can't remember anymore.
      By the way, what you say is true. I am a former German OR-8 tanker. I think it was in the late 90's while I was the platoon sergeant of the 1st platoon (led by an officer), our company had to spearhead a counterattack during combat training at CMTC in Hohenfels.
      Guess what? CO was knocked out, my platoon leader and the senior NCO platoon leader as well. The 3rd platoon was a "Grenadierzug" which was basically swapped with one of our platoons, and can be sonsidered as "guest." Well, within one minute I suddenly was the oldest guy remaining on the field and I took over and fulfilled our task by crushing into the flank of two armored inf. companies.
      Transpose this scenario into a "real world" situation, it would have still been the same for this moment, for this situation. Maybe for another day or so. I was not the highest ranking guy left in my company, as this was the "Kompaniefeldwebel," and he might have taken over. Or some officer from the batallion would be relocated to lead the company, who knows?

  • @HellbirdIV
    @HellbirdIV 11 місяців тому

    I must know if Battle Order have done something like the "Hyperwar 1989" for the hottest year of the Cold War: 1968 (Tet Offensive, Korean DMZ conflict, Warsaw Pact intervention in Czechoslovakia, and much more)

  • @sergeyboychuck8872
    @sergeyboychuck8872 11 місяців тому +4

    love you!
    can you do same for artillery units of both Germany's? 😁
    wish list:
    comparison between artillery table of organization between cold war era USA corps and USSR army.
    comparison between USA cold war era and modern time (both field units and artillery).
    Good job, Thank you!!!

  • @venator104th3
    @venator104th3 11 місяців тому

    I’m loving the call of duty three music in the background

  • @nicholaswalsh4462
    @nicholaswalsh4462 11 місяців тому +1

    Fascinating.

  • @EpicThe112
    @EpicThe112 11 місяців тому +6

    Interesting and for the East German army they are modeled after the Russians which is why they're organization resembles one why not do the Czechoslovakian Army after this one. For the West German army they are modeled after all the NATO militaries that run like them

    • @christianpethukov8155
      @christianpethukov8155 11 місяців тому +6

      I am currently planning a West German vs. Czechoslovakia scenario for my gaming hobby, circa 1983. I can tell you that by the end of the 80's Czechoslovakian battalions consisted of two companies of 20 tanks each, although in the early 80's the companies were 18, 4 × 4 + 2 HQ. T-55AMs.

    • @EpicThe112
      @EpicThe112 11 місяців тому +5

      @christianpethukov8155 thank you for telling me about that looking at the Czechoslovakia West Germany border they will need to deal with a West German and American units.

  • @graysontaylor5088
    @graysontaylor5088 11 місяців тому +4

    should do a similar video for soviet and American units

  • @JarodFarrant
    @JarodFarrant 11 місяців тому

    Happy new years 🥳🎉 ❤

  • @shadz9101
    @shadz9101 11 місяців тому +1

    Could you do a video on special forces?

  • @Derschleifer
    @Derschleifer 11 місяців тому +3

    Officer and Enlisted is in the german Army wrong. The Mannschaften Unteroffiziere and Offiziere are different Carrieroptions you cant go from on to the other without a carrierchange.

  • @wesleykamerer6154
    @wesleykamerer6154 11 місяців тому +6

    Can you do a breakdown of the Soviet tank forces in 1989. How prevalent was ERA at this point?

    • @andrewstickley6681
      @andrewstickley6681 11 місяців тому +6

      Obviously this is not in depth, but as a general rule: Most or all frontline Cat 1 soviet tank divisions had T-64BV/T-72B/T-80BV (all with ERA) by that point. Cat 2 and 3, and divisions further away from Europe were primarily still equipped with T-62, T-55 and even early T-54 models.

  • @gabrielborawski6739
    @gabrielborawski6739 11 місяців тому +5

    So, did I understood it wrong or, sometimes only 3 crewmembers were riding in T-55?

    • @BattleOrder
      @BattleOrder  11 місяців тому +16

      No the 4th guy being low opacity was because that type of platoon could have either T-55s or T-72s depending on the parent division. In T-55 units there were 4 crewmembers and in T-72 units there were 3

    • @gabrielborawski6739
      @gabrielborawski6739 11 місяців тому +5

      @@BattleOrder thanks for clarification

  • @napoleonibonaparte7198
    @napoleonibonaparte7198 11 місяців тому +1

    The better comparison would be comparing both of their bureaucracies.

  • @Brecconable
    @Brecconable 10 місяців тому

    For those who don't know Panzergrenadier in English more or less means Armoured Infantry. Could you please do more comparison videos between the Bundeswehr, the Osterreiches Bundesheer, the Schweizer Armee and the Nasionale Volksarmee?

  • @MPKb19
    @MPKb19 11 місяців тому +7

    Comment for statistics

  • @norbertblackrain2379
    @norbertblackrain2379 11 місяців тому +14

    About West Germany You missed the Tank units assigned to territorial defense brigades, Heimatschutz Brigaden 51-56, 61-66 as well as other smaller territorial units. Several had MBTs, mostly M48 versions, in their tank destroyer, Panzerjäger companies. Als Mountain Brigade. Gebirgsjäger Brigade 23 had a "tank destroyer company" with Leo 1.
    Some West German Tank Battalions had 4 companies like Gebrigspanzerbattalion 8 and the Panzer Battalions of the PzGren Brigades of the 6 Panzer Grenadier Division assigned to LandJut.

    • @BattleOrder
      @BattleOrder  11 місяців тому +20

      I also didn't touch on the state of East German reserves. This one was basically about the active tank units

    • @norbertblackrain2379
      @norbertblackrain2379 11 місяців тому +2

      @@BattleOrderHeimatschutz Brigades 51-56 were active. 51 and 56 were also NATO assigned and subordinate to the 6th PzGren and 1st Mountain Division (Gebirgs Division).
      The Gebirgs Division had also a 4 company strong divisional tank battalion, Gebirgs Panzer Battalion 8)

  • @hungryanimal5112
    @hungryanimal5112 11 місяців тому +3

    Yay!

  • @kegan51
    @kegan51 11 місяців тому

    The tank platoon in the Div Aufklärungs Bat. had 3 tanks.

  • @sucon8675
    @sucon8675 11 місяців тому +3

    GIMME MORE COLD WAR

  • @ivanpetrovski9011
    @ivanpetrovski9011 11 місяців тому +1

    Dont let Gaijin see this video

  • @hamptonoliver5247
    @hamptonoliver5247 11 місяців тому

    Ik it has nothing important to do with the video but I love the use of the CoD3 soundtrack

  • @sector7668
    @sector7668 11 місяців тому +4

    Do North Korea Vs South Korea 1989 It Would Be Awesome.

    • @davidbrennan660
      @davidbrennan660 11 місяців тому +1

      That would be a lot of T54s and DPMs...😂

  • @hoseignasio1538
    @hoseignasio1538 11 місяців тому +2

    Неплохой обзор!

  • @chev3569
    @chev3569 11 місяців тому +3

    0:30 cyrillic abuse

  • @stormcommando1640
    @stormcommando1640 11 місяців тому +1

    It’d of been interesting to see where the East German org differed from Soviet trends, if at all.

  • @lodickasvlajeckou
    @lodickasvlajeckou 11 місяців тому

    Well also need to know that in 1980s Warsaw pact was in decline and that it only got worse to the point of reducing the amount of military equipment.

  • @BobbyB1928
    @BobbyB1928 11 місяців тому

    The East Germans were still using BM-15 for their T-72 fleet ...

  • @swordsnspearguy5945
    @swordsnspearguy5945 11 місяців тому +2

    Hyperwar?

  • @thomas_jay
    @thomas_jay 11 місяців тому

    At that time we had a tank force that deserved that name.
    What we have nowadays is a pale shadow in comparision.

  • @MegaNato111
    @MegaNato111 11 місяців тому +1

    Call of duty 3 soundtrack in the background is mega based

  • @DominusRexDK
    @DominusRexDK 11 місяців тому +2

    so for 1989, as far as im aware, it was not the 1st panzer division but the 3rd panzer division that was part of the 1st NL corps.
    while 1st Panzer was part of 1st German Corps. (edit, never mind, i misheard you.)

  • @bos5474
    @bos5474 11 місяців тому +1

    Thanks from Hannover 😂

  • @warhead_beast7661
    @warhead_beast7661 11 місяців тому

    Could you also do one for tank units of the british/american and russian forces in germany, please? I need more cold war

  • @Flies2FLL
    @Flies2FLL Місяць тому

    1989? Try 1983 when we came VERY close to nuclear war during the Able-Archer military exercises in West Germany...

  • @Suleimenoff
    @Suleimenoff 11 місяців тому +6

    While east hauptfeldwebel rode Ural, west hauptfeldwebel rode Mercedes. Say no more...

    • @ВосславьСолнце-е5х
      @ВосславьСолнце-е5х 11 місяців тому +2

      Солдату которому нечего терять, воюет лучше солдата у которого есть что терять, так как ему нечего терять. Так что восточные немцы были более смертноносны, эдакий симбиоз прусского военного духа и традиций с советской доктриной выигравшей вторую мировую.

  • @jonathanisjohn
    @jonathanisjohn 11 місяців тому

    Can you talk about East German Navy please?

  • @theconnorwarman5138
    @theconnorwarman5138 11 місяців тому +3

    Love the Cold War content.

  • @DatBoiSanz
    @DatBoiSanz 11 місяців тому +1

    East Coast vs West Coast German version

  • @danielk.english6004
    @danielk.english6004 11 місяців тому +1

    video games are great educational tools if i can recognize most of this equipment 😂

  • @florencekeagan1572
    @florencekeagan1572 11 місяців тому

    Dont think I don't recognize the CoD 3 campaign music

  • @A_14761
    @A_14761 11 місяців тому

    A one is making by themselves
    A one is making with Big Eastern Daddy's help

  • @t.ditsakulofthisaccount1141
    @t.ditsakulofthisaccount1141 11 місяців тому +2

    Im all for this Hyper war but wish it was 1981 for more realistic apporach just saying

  • @koalaseatleaves1277
    @koalaseatleaves1277 11 місяців тому +1

    a comparison of cold war us and nato armoured units please.