I dunno man, it's kinda unfair to assume their playstyle are the reason they don't have a ring. There's a lot of circumstances, after all. As for John Stockton, i think one of the reason he failed was simply because the wall of MJ were too high to climb
@@Gotothelui But for me it's not even whether you win or not, but how you play the game?? They play the style that's custom-made to their overall personalities and genetics. There's nothing wrong with compromising a marginal amount of winning in certain capacities, just to feel like you're inside your own skin. When it's their turn, and it's meant for them to, and the stars align, they do eventually win one. Not six like Jordan, or four like Shaq or anything, but JJ Barea nicely won one in 11' w/ the Mavs, just within a much lesser role, as did Little Avery Johnson w/ the Spurs in 99'. They weren't asked to do nearly overall what Zeke (wealthy man's Avery Johnson) or Stockton (wealthy man's Barea) were, but the roles were still both significant and necessary. You could argue that it's easier to assimilate an assists specialist like a Stockton, or rebounding specialist like a Rodman, albeit, usually to a lesser extent, than it is land a generational do-all talent like a Pippen or Lebron.
@@alexiecierra Wow! What a loyal fan! You went through a lot of ups and downs with the franchise for sure! If you don't mind, please subscribe to my channel because you clearly love basketball and the NBA and that's all I post around here! It would mean a lot... Cheers.
There is a lot of historical context missing... if Steve Nash were in his prime today he would be raining 5 3s a game on top of 15 assists/game.... as far as winning it all: all you have to do is be on a juggernaut team... you could have mentioned the 90's bulls or the 2000's Spurs or the 2010's Warriors as to why these PGs got close but no cigar edit: I really like your editing and your narrating cadence, will watch more of your vids.
You make some good points, I wasn’t highlighting certain aspects enough. I’m glad you enjoyed my editing and narrating though :) make sure you subscribe so that you know when all my videos drop and to join the club!
Rondo is an example of a pass first player that can make the players better around him, with ability to get his people into the spots, and high basketball IQ. You can't blame the point guards for not having rings their job was to create shots. It's the teams fault for not building around them and having a player who could score 30 points. Also Nash played in the west when it was extremely strong Kobe's Lakers, the spurs and tim Duncan, the Mavs
I think there is some truth to that, but when Rondo was given the keys (the sacramento kings) he failed to make the team successful even though they had a few players. I totally understand what you mean but having a scorer first in my opinion is more crucial
Rondo won with the lakers. Jason Kidd on the mavs Chauncey billups Derek fisher The issue is you need a person on your 5 who can draw a double. Really two ppl.
this video is just wrong on so many levels. Pass first points don’t need to score a lot because assisting on buckets is more efficient than taking shots. what’s more important than scoring high averages as a pass first point is having high shooting percentages so that you are still a threat if they decided to loosen up on ball to try to prevent the assists you have to be able to punish the defense for trying to punish you for passing. Stockton would have 2 rings if it wants for MJ, Rondo has 2 rings, even Jason Williams has a ring, magic has 5 rings. If someone averages 15 ppg and 10 apg that’s basically averaging 35 points a game if not more for assisting on 3 pointers. You are looking a 3 players and making a huge assumption based on that when in reality pass first point guards probably have more influence on getting rings throughout the years that scoring points, which is like steph and kyrie. Iverson never got a ring. Damian lilard still doesnt have one. Isaiah thomas was a pass first with 2 rings. you could even make the case for tony parker being pass first because Pops system was that EVERYONE played pass first.
Pass first point guards are only a problem if they are JUST PASS point guards like Ricky Rubio, if they are pass first, but are solid shooters/defenders then it's alright for instance Rajon Rondo is a passer but also a good Defender
I'm glad you found it interesting! I also have a similar style of play to this so I could relate! Make sure you subscribe because I think you'd enjoy my videos a lot and I'd love to have you here!
cp3 waa not pass first and he definitely wasnt the second option to booker or definitely blake. his favorite move is snaking the screen and shooting the corner ft
I think it's a game evolution thing. A role player with a skill set will never be a detriment to the team or the field, if anything enhance it exponentially. I feel like the game needs to grow outside of the star iso / roll systems and we might see t hese players really rise in media stock.
It was an amazing video, a great analysis. I'm loving your channel, man. However, I got to kind of disagree a little bit. I mean, Stockton would definitely have 2 Rings if Utah didn't play against MJ and his Bulls; Nash had a great team with 0 defense, and if you played against one of the best dynasties, the Spurs, known for their great D, that would be the expected result (don't forget that Stoudamire suspension); finally, CP3 come on man, yes Blake and D Jordan were All-Star but nowhere near champions caliber teammates, and if he didn't injure his hamstring, he would have a ring. All I'm saying is there are a lot more factors into account than just a "pass-first" problem. Keep going, man!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you like my channel! Although I do see where you're coming from I just find it more reassuring to have a scoring PG who is decent at passing. Thank you so much once again for the kind words! You're amazing :)
I have to respectfully disagree with this video. Personally I believe that being a pass first point gaurd gives you a better chance of winning than a score first one does. But in all rationality It’s all about how you play the point gaurd position and what your team requires based on the type of team you have around you. But no point gaurd Whether Your shoot first or pass first Is going to be the main reason you win a championship. That is a team achievement. As great as Stephen Curry is He’s had great players around him on his championship runs. If you look at Stephen Curry’s numbers in the Finals it’s not nearly as good as his numbers in the regular season. Mainly because he has players around him that can take over whenever he has an off game. Also Magic Johnson, Not only did he have Kareem he had worthy, Cooper, Aj green, rambus, Byron Scott, And and that’s just to name a few players. You have to have a Great team to win a championship but whether you win or lose being a pass first Point Gaurd is not the issue.
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, you make some fantastic points. Which type of point guard do you think would have more success though? One that passes first, or one that can score first?
@@nkclouted Thank you! You also made a lot of great points in this video as well. But if I had my preference I would always go with a point guard with a past first mindset that could also give me a bucket if I need one.
@@kc-sm5qu There's nothing wrong with that! If you don't mind subscribing that would mean a lot to me! You seem like you know/love your basketball so I think you'd really enjoy my channel!
As of right now, it’s difficult, you can’t go wrong with either. But I believe Luka Doncic is slightly more well rounded but Harden can have nights where he easily goes off for 40 or 50
@@nkclouted It is true that one can argue but I think Harden is better When he was at the Rockets the guy was putting more than 30 points per game and almost 9-10 assists And in his first year at the Nets he was averaging 24 points 11 assists and 8 rebounds in a team that included Kyrie and Durant and other talented players I see all this and Luka has done nothing to justify putting him above Harden in either the season or the playoffs I highly doubt he would have been as productive as Harden if he was with the Nets Moreover he is too dominant with the ball at the points that it impacts negatively the players like Porzingis We can talk about incompatibility, don't blame it all on Luka but a lot of times you see that Porzingis is free but he doesn't make the pass We don't let KP play like he used to, Luka likes to control things too much and if everything I say is true it's going to be complicated because for Mavericks to go far in the playoff they're going to have to acquire new stars, very good timing when you know that there will be a lot of free agent stars next season And if Luka is unable to share the responsibilities or stay as productive while being less dominant it will be a problem Now all this remains to be proven but Harden has already proven everything and to be honest I think he was the best player on the team last season All in all I think Luka doesn't deserve to be put in front of Harden
@@nkclouted I don't know if you're saying Luka is more well-rounded than Harden because he has more rebounds Because in terms of playmaking and passing, Harden has nothing to envy to Luka And in scoring Harden is better (percentage confirms) So I don't understand But I understand all this hype around Luka, his first 3 seasons are impressive but that doesn't justify putting him in some rankings Derrick Rose at the same stage he was MVP and had carried the Bulls higher in the playoffs
I’d love to see more videos on nba history and your opinions on it if possible as the 90s and 80s and the players in those eras are slowing being forgotten
The problem is you can also point out that score first point guards don't bring success either. The same arguments you made for Magic can be made for Steph Curry and honestly who else can come close? Stockton wasn't the issue holding Utah back it was a deep field and Jordan. Nash teams were held back by poor defense just like all D'antoni teams and Chris Paul teams never were a threat because of not fielding a competent roster (new Orleans) not having players who can get their own (Blake was great but he wasn't a guy that you can count on to get his own bucket consistently) or bad luck (houston). He came close with phoenix but bad coaching decisions messed that up
Dude, I really like your content. It’s original and interesting. But yo really sound like you’re reading off of cue cards. Practice one or two extra times, make it sound natural. The difference between Joe EveryUA-camr and someone like Rusty Buckets or FemLo Raps is that they feel so natural on in front of the cam. It’s like you’re chatting with a buddy. I think you’re almost there, so I’d really make a push. I want you to be able to really monetize, you know your stuff.
Hey man, I really appreciate the kind words about my content! I'm really glad you enjoyed! It is something I have noticed as well and I'm trying to work on sounding as natural as possible. This video is slightly dated so I think there have been slight improvements but I definitely know what you mean. I'm going to try and make that push! Thanks once again I hope you stick around to see my progress in my journey :)
Honestly, Magic is not even an anomaly, the difference between Magic and the rest of the PGs on the list is that he wasnt a Pass-First PG, he was a willing passer, this is a key difference when looking into the game, Pass-First PGs like Stockton or Nash, are forced into that playstyle due to their lack of elite scoring capabilities (dont get me wrong, they are amazing scorers), since before 2015 Basketball was a sport of Giants, sort of saying, players like Stockton and Nash struggled greatly to score in the paint, so they developed that pass first playstyle, on the other hand, Magic was an elite scorer since before joining the NBA (Remember Game 6 of the finals his rookie season with Kareem out because of injury), Magic could score when he wanted, but enabling his teammates was his way of leading. When we look at the PGs that did win it all, they werent the 1st or second option on their team (excluding maybe the big O [i dont know enough about that era to make a statement about that]), this means that having a pass first PG can work, but to do that you need at least 2 elite scorers that arent the PG and an elite rebounder too probably. Lets take Nash for example, excellent scorer, but not a player that can keep his efficiency while getting 25+ ppg, but if you place him around scorers of the caliber of Klay Thompson and KD (i name this 2 for lack of inspiration), that team would excel on the offensive end, KD doesnt need a player like Nash to score, but would surely benefit from having him, Klay is probably the best 3 and D player in the current NBA (or at least he was before injuries), Nash is certainly a 3rd option caliber scorer. In conclussion, Pass First PGs can be used as a core to build a team around them, as long as you arent hoping for them to drop 15 assists and 35 points per game every night. Being realistic, elite scorers can get 16+ points on a bad night, and 40+ on a great one, elite passers can get insane amounts of assists, and i think they would thrive on todays NBA, but their worst enemy is having to drive the ball from half court to the paint to generate space. If you look at Jokic, he is an elite scorer, but that also because he can play in the paint where the % of scoring goes up, and he is a willing passer just like Magic, which means that the other team has to be careful of his passes but cant neglect his scoring capabilities, because Jokic first option is always scoring unless someone is in a better position or has an easier shot (which is often because he is inside the paint with 2 7 footers on him).
You honestly make some good points, I never looked at it from the perspective of having pass-first pgs boost your scorers numbers. I still believe that it is a must to have a pg that can go out and give you 20 points in the current league if you want to have a chance to win a championship. You should subscribe to my channel, I think you'd really like it! I would love to have you here you seem like a massive NBA fan and we all are here :)
@@nkclouted i mean, ideally your starting 5 would be 5 20ppg players, but in reality having that is almost impossible due to egos and just amount of field goal attempts. What you want in general is a group of players that can score more than the rival team, no matter how the ppg are splitted among players, for sure you need at least 2 players that you can give the ball when the game is on the line and you need a basket, but NBA teams for a long time were built in ways that made superstars be always the reason of winning or losing, San Antonio with their Extra Pass offense destroyed that way of thinking of we need the best player in the world to win, they had 2 allstar lvl players (Tony and Manu) and an MVP Caliber player on Timmy, but the other 9 players on the roster did their part when they were on the court too, Tony and Manu are both insane scorers but were always willing to pass to the open guy, Duncan was a gravity field on the paint drawing everyones attention. In the end, while having players that can make 20+ PPG, what you actually want is a 12 player roster than can score more than the rival team, being it by being better at defense and therefore making them score less, excelling at rebounding for 2nd chances, or having elite scorers that rarely miss. But in my opinion, having 1 or 2 elite scorers is a flawed methodology because the pressure it creates for the 2nd option is not good, the 1st option can rely on the 2nd option when they have an off night, but the 2nd option doesnt have anyone to rely on, this creates massive amounts of pressure on those players. And no matter what sport you watch or play, no player is better than a whole team.
@@gastonzamora4985 You do make a lot of great points! No single player is better than a whole team. I think that there should be a mix of passing and scoring like you mentioned. In the perfect world, I would want my 1st and 2nd options to be primary scorers, followed by the third to be passing, and 4 and 5 shooters and defense. But I totally get why that could be super difficult to have. Thank you for subscribing btw! You're awesome :)
simply means if your ball handler doesn't have enough threat offensively, the defender can easily help others, but i think cp3 had one of the best midrange in the nba history
Every hall of fame level pass-first point gaurd I can name has seen great success in both the regular season and playoffs. Steve Nash Jason Kidd Chris Paul Rajon Rondo John Stockton Isiah Thomas Magic Johnson Bob Cousy All of these guys have made it to the conference finals. All but one have made it to the finals. All but three have one a ring and 4 of them have won multiple. Compare this with hall of fame level scoring point guards. Steph and kyrie are the only modern Era players with that skillset to make the finals. (Westbrook is more of a hybrid) scoring point gaurds also were a lot more rare back in the day so you won't find much there. Jerry west was a primary two gaurd for most of his career but did play point on and off. I don't think that counts. Walt Frazier comes to mind with his championship, allen iverson, who made it to the finals, and Nate Archibald who was great in his prime but only won as a role player. Point gaurds in general don't win championships much as the lead man. Only Magic, steph and Isiah did that.
@@nkclouted who was a better fit with James harden, Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook? How good were the suns with Stephon Marbury vs Steve Nash? my main point is important to understand. point guards historically are not the main stars of championship teams. so far only three have been able to do it. pass first PG's seem to have more overall success than scoring PGs. Recent history may be changing that though.
Already Chris Paul has over 10,000 assists by the time you make this video. Now I'm offended by what you're saying, because you're making it sound like one player can win a championship which is totally wrong Otherwise LeBron wouldn't have had to go to the Miami Heat, Kevin Durant to the Warriors... This is to tell you that the championship is a collective effort Now I don't see what's wrong with the fact that they don't score enough and I don't like it but don't forget that their high IQ, their skills allow their teammates to shine, to play at their best level, to become a top offensive team I don't know Nash or Stockon that well But I know Chris Paul very well, he is my favorite player And know that Chris Paul just didn't have a chance When he was with the Hornets frankly we all would have been surprised if that team had done anything but they finished second in their conference and Paul almost was MVP Then he almost went to the Lakers and maybe if he had we wouldn't have put him in this ranking but let's move on, he went to the Clippers Raising the level of play of his teammates especially Ask Jordan who was an All Star, but frankly before the arrival of Chris Paul this team was not special so to win a championship in an era of superteam (Heat...) was very hard I'm sure that if Chris Paul at the time was playing for the Heat, Spurs, Lakers he would have won a championship The only valid teams in which he played are Suns and Rockets With the Suns they went to the finals, unfortunately the injuries to Chris Paul and Booker hampered them, the lack of replacement for Ayton ... but that's the past And with the Rockets in a Warriors sick superteam era they managed to finish first in the conference and led 3-2 in the conference finals before Paul got hurt and the Rockets lost both games in a row Anyway, don't blame their style of play because it has nothing to do with it
I get what you are saying, and sorry about the delay in Paul’s stats, the notes I made were from last year. If you’re a big Chris Paul fan I suggest you watch the video I made regarding every team he’s saved. And to touch on your comments, I wanted to get the point across that pass first point guards are still great players, but I’d rather have a scorer and a decent passer then the other way around. If the team isn’t hitting shots the pg can perform. The best example I could give is the Houston Rockets in game 7 of the 2018 conference finals. They missed 27 threes that game. No one was going and they lost. I’m not saying pass first pgs are bad, just that when it comes down to crunch time, it’s difficult for them to perform! Never the less thank you for the amazing comment u left!
@@nkclouted I will watch the video And I agree with what you say And there's nothing wrong with preferring a decent passing scorer over a pass-first But I think that only applies to Stockon and Nash who are from a past generation Chris Paul is certainly a pass-first but I wouldn't put him on the same level as Nash or the other one because unlike them Paul can give you 40 points if he has to It's even a thing that annoys me with Paul because if he wanted to he could average more than 20-25 points per game
I do agree with you, but you can’t lie, he’s looking to get his team going more then himself. If you’re a big CP3 fan, I promise you’ll like the video I made about every team he’s saved! I’d also really appreciate if you could subscribe because I’m going to talk about how Chris Paul should have won the 2008 MVP
I am so fucking tired of hearing so many bullshits about why the phoenix suns did not win. Please go back and look at that team. There are only 2 reasons why the did not win: a cheap owner and a shitload of injuries. People think about that team as a 6-7 players core that failed 5-6 years in a row, when in reality that team was reshuffling every year because key players left because they did not want to pay them or were not available for whole seasons because injured.
Although I think injuries did play a role, you can’t forget that other teams could go through injuries as well. The suns did have more than normal though so I get it. But at face value, they just didn’t have enough talent imo
@@nkclouted Again, injuries + cheap owner. The first edition of the Suns with Joe Johnson was an amazing team, but they decided not to pay him, so they re-built it. "Other team did it through injuries" -> No one did it with the second-best player and best scorer out for the season
And I forget one more thing Whether it was the Hornets, Clippers, Thunders, Chris Paul was never the second option At the Rockets yes he was At the Suns we can say that he is after all he is 36 years old, the future of the franchise is Devin Booker But in terms of production they just have different styles
I understand, I left a pretty big reply in your other comment. I also recommend you watch my video where I talk about every team Chris Paul has saved! It’s a really good video that highlights how teams are successful with Chris Paul
Hey everyone, I'm nearing 1000 subscribers and decided I'd do a Q/A!! Please leave replies under this comment of questions you have for me :)
I dunno man, it's kinda unfair to assume their playstyle are the reason they don't have a ring. There's a lot of circumstances, after all. As for John Stockton, i think one of the reason he failed was simply because the wall of MJ were too high to climb
Circumstances definitely matter, but I believe that there is a greater chance of winning if you're point guard can put the ball through the hoop
@@nkclouted Rajon Rondo*
@@nkclouted literally everybody you have on this list can do that😂
@@xavierhurst7446 They can, but they don't because they pass first, hence his point. You just proved his point 💀.
@@Gotothelui But for me it's not even whether you win or not, but how you play the game?? They play the style that's custom-made to their overall personalities and genetics. There's nothing wrong with compromising a marginal amount of winning in certain capacities, just to feel like you're inside your own skin. When it's their turn, and it's meant for them to, and the stars align, they do eventually win one. Not six like Jordan, or four like Shaq or anything, but JJ Barea nicely won one in 11' w/ the Mavs, just within a much lesser role, as did Little Avery Johnson w/ the Spurs in 99'. They weren't asked to do nearly overall what Zeke (wealthy man's Avery Johnson) or Stockton (wealthy man's Barea) were, but the roles were still both significant and necessary. You could argue that it's easier to assimilate an assists specialist like a Stockton, or rebounding specialist like a Rodman, albeit, usually to a lesser extent, than it is land a generational do-all talent like a Pippen or Lebron.
Rajon Rondo has two rings. He won with the Lakers 2018-2019 season
I don't know how that slipped past me... good call! Thank you for leaving a comment!
@@nkclouted You're welcome. I love Lakers. Grew up watching the Lakers starting in 2006 since middle school.
@@alexiecierra Wow! What a loyal fan! You went through a lot of ups and downs with the franchise for sure! If you don't mind, please subscribe to my channel because you clearly love basketball and the NBA and that's all I post around here! It would mean a lot... Cheers.
@@nkclouted Jason Kidd? Im a casual, but isn't Kidd a pass-first PG
I play point I’m pass first PG!
I think a good Point guard focuses on passing and playmaking but can also score if necessary for the team success
Exactly my point!
@@nkclouted good videov
@@nkcloutedmy ideal point guard averages like 21 points and 10 assists per game
There is a lot of historical context missing... if Steve Nash were in his prime today he would be raining 5 3s a game on top of 15 assists/game.... as far as winning it all: all you have to do is be on a juggernaut team... you could have mentioned the 90's bulls or the 2000's Spurs or the 2010's Warriors as to why these PGs got close but no cigar
edit: I really like your editing and your narrating cadence, will watch more of your vids.
You make some good points, I wasn’t highlighting certain aspects enough. I’m glad you enjoyed my editing and narrating though :) make sure you subscribe so that you know when all my videos drop and to join the club!
Rondo is an example of a pass first player that can make the players better around him, with ability to get his people into the spots, and high basketball IQ. You can't blame the point guards for not having rings their job was to create shots.
It's the teams fault for not building around them and having a player who could score 30 points.
Also Nash played in the west when it was extremely strong Kobe's Lakers, the spurs and tim Duncan, the Mavs
I think there is some truth to that, but when Rondo was given the keys (the sacramento kings) he failed to make the team successful even though they had a few players. I totally understand what you mean but having a scorer first in my opinion is more crucial
Rondo won with the lakers.
Jason Kidd on the mavs
Chauncey billups
Derek fisher
The issue is you need a person on your 5 who can draw a double. Really two ppl.
this video is just wrong on so many levels. Pass first points don’t need to score a lot because assisting on buckets is more efficient than taking shots. what’s more important than scoring high averages as a pass first point is having high shooting percentages so that you are still a threat if they decided to loosen up on ball to try to prevent the assists you have to be able to punish the defense for trying to punish you for passing. Stockton would have 2 rings if it wants for MJ, Rondo has 2 rings, even Jason Williams has a ring, magic has 5 rings. If someone averages 15 ppg and 10 apg that’s basically averaging 35 points a game if not more for assisting on 3 pointers. You are looking a 3 players and making a huge assumption based on that when in reality pass first point guards probably have more influence on getting rings throughout the years that scoring points, which is like steph and kyrie. Iverson never got a ring. Damian lilard still doesnt have one. Isaiah thomas was a pass first with 2 rings. you could even make the case for tony parker being pass first because Pops system was that EVERYONE played pass first.
Honestly, you make a lot of good points. I see where you're coming from. Very well constructed!
Do you think there is a problem with pass-first point guards or am I wrong?
No
No
@@GarkKahn That's fair
Yes, you are wrong here.
nice video im begging you please make a video about the best mid range shooters in NBA history
Might just have to! Thanks for the idea :)
@@nkclouted thanks bro!
CP3 in the warriors as the 2nd or 3rd option is good but with the amount of competition they have right now. Deym
NBA is becoming more exciting.
Pass first point guards are only a problem if they are JUST PASS point guards like Ricky Rubio, if they are pass first, but are solid shooters/defenders then it's alright for instance Rajon Rondo is a passer but also a good Defender
New Subscriber here. Keep it up ☺️
Wow! Thank you so much :) I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
These kind of videos really pick my interest
Since this became my playstyle now lol
I'm glad you found it interesting! I also have a similar style of play to this so I could relate! Make sure you subscribe because I think you'd enjoy my videos a lot and I'd love to have you here!
cp3 waa not pass first and he definitely wasnt the second option to booker or definitely blake. his favorite move is snaking the screen and shooting the corner ft
I think it's a game evolution thing. A role player with a skill set will never be a detriment to the team or the field, if anything enhance it exponentially. I feel like the game needs to grow outside of the star iso / roll systems and we might see t hese players really rise in media stock.
Magic, rondo, Kidd, would beg to differ, good video regardless
There are definitely some out liars. Thank you very much! What would you like to see next?
BRO 2008 Rondo average like 5 assist and 2011 Kidd average 6 assist
It was an amazing video, a great analysis. I'm loving your channel, man. However, I got to kind of disagree a little bit. I mean, Stockton would definitely have 2 Rings if Utah didn't play against MJ and his Bulls; Nash had a great team with 0 defense, and if you played against one of the best dynasties, the Spurs, known for their great D, that would be the expected result (don't forget that Stoudamire suspension); finally, CP3 come on man, yes Blake and D Jordan were All-Star but nowhere near champions caliber teammates, and if he didn't injure his hamstring, he would have a ring. All I'm saying is there are a lot more factors into account than just a "pass-first" problem. Keep going, man!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you like my channel! Although I do see where you're coming from I just find it more reassuring to have a scoring PG who is decent at passing. Thank you so much once again for the kind words! You're amazing :)
I have to respectfully disagree with this video. Personally I believe that being a pass first point gaurd gives you a better chance of winning than a score first one does. But in all rationality It’s all about how you play the point gaurd position and what your team requires based on the type of team you have around you. But no point gaurd Whether Your shoot first or pass first Is going to be the main reason you win a championship. That is a team achievement. As great as Stephen Curry is He’s had great players around him on his championship runs. If you look at Stephen Curry’s numbers in the Finals it’s not nearly as good as his numbers in the regular season. Mainly because he has players around him that can take over whenever he has an off game. Also Magic Johnson, Not only did he have Kareem he had worthy, Cooper, Aj green, rambus, Byron Scott, And and that’s just to name a few players. You have to have a Great team to win a championship but whether you win or lose being a pass first Point Gaurd is not the issue.
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, you make some fantastic points. Which type of point guard do you think would have more success though? One that passes first, or one that can score first?
@@nkclouted Thank you! You also made a lot of great points in this video as well. But if I had my preference I would always go with a point guard with a past first mindset that could also give me a bucket if I need one.
@@kc-sm5qu There's nothing wrong with that! If you don't mind subscribing that would mean a lot to me! You seem like you know/love your basketball so I think you'd really enjoy my channel!
@@nkclouted Absolutely my brother that would be a pleasure. Your content is great please keep them coming I love it.
@@kc-sm5qu That really means a lot to me man! I'm so glad you enjoy the stuff I make I'll be sure to keep it coming!
Thanks!
What videos do you want to see next?? 👀👀
Do you think Luka is better than James Harden ?
As of right now, it’s difficult, you can’t go wrong with either. But I believe Luka Doncic is slightly more well rounded but Harden can have nights where he easily goes off for 40 or 50
@@nkclouted It is true that one can argue but I think Harden is better
When he was at the Rockets the guy was putting more than 30 points per game and almost 9-10 assists
And in his first year at the Nets he was averaging 24 points 11 assists and 8 rebounds in a team that included Kyrie and Durant and other talented players
I see all this and Luka has done nothing to justify putting him above Harden in either the season or the playoffs
I highly doubt he would have been as productive as Harden if he was with the Nets
Moreover he is too dominant with the ball at the points that it impacts negatively the players like Porzingis
We can talk about incompatibility, don't blame it all on Luka but a lot of times you see that Porzingis is free but he doesn't make the pass
We don't let KP play like he used to, Luka likes to control things too much and if everything I say is true it's going to be complicated because for Mavericks to go far in the playoff they're going to have to acquire new stars, very good timing when you know that there will be a lot of free agent stars next season
And if Luka is unable to share the responsibilities or stay as productive while being less dominant it will be a problem
Now all this remains to be proven but Harden has already proven everything and to be honest I think he was the best player on the team last season
All in all I think Luka doesn't deserve to be put in front of Harden
@@nkclouted I don't know if you're saying Luka is more well-rounded than Harden because he has more rebounds
Because in terms of playmaking and passing, Harden has nothing to envy to Luka
And in scoring Harden is better (percentage confirms)
So I don't understand
But I understand all this hype around Luka, his first 3 seasons are impressive but that doesn't justify putting him in some rankings
Derrick Rose at the same stage he was MVP and had carried the Bulls higher in the playoffs
I’d love to see more videos on nba history and your opinions on it if possible as the 90s and 80s and the players in those eras are slowing being forgotten
The problem is you can also point out that score first point guards don't bring success either. The same arguments you made for Magic can be made for Steph Curry and honestly who else can come close? Stockton wasn't the issue holding Utah back it was a deep field and Jordan. Nash teams were held back by poor defense just like all D'antoni teams and Chris Paul teams never were a threat because of not fielding a competent roster (new Orleans) not having players who can get their own (Blake was great but he wasn't a guy that you can count on to get his own bucket consistently) or bad luck (houston). He came close with phoenix but bad coaching decisions messed that up
You make some great points but I could still argue that having a bucket getter would be better in almost all cases
Dude, I really like your content. It’s original and interesting. But yo really sound like you’re reading off of cue cards. Practice one or two extra times, make it sound natural. The difference between Joe EveryUA-camr and someone like Rusty Buckets or FemLo Raps is that they feel so natural on in front of the cam. It’s like you’re chatting with a buddy. I think you’re almost there, so I’d really make a push. I want you to be able to really monetize, you know your stuff.
Hey man, I really appreciate the kind words about my content! I'm really glad you enjoyed! It is something I have noticed as well and I'm trying to work on sounding as natural as possible. This video is slightly dated so I think there have been slight improvements but I definitely know what you mean. I'm going to try and make that push! Thanks once again I hope you stick around to see my progress in my journey :)
Honestly, Magic is not even an anomaly, the difference between Magic and the rest of the PGs on the list is that he wasnt a Pass-First PG, he was a willing passer, this is a key difference when looking into the game, Pass-First PGs like Stockton or Nash, are forced into that playstyle due to their lack of elite scoring capabilities (dont get me wrong, they are amazing scorers), since before 2015 Basketball was a sport of Giants, sort of saying, players like Stockton and Nash struggled greatly to score in the paint, so they developed that pass first playstyle, on the other hand, Magic was an elite scorer since before joining the NBA (Remember Game 6 of the finals his rookie season with Kareem out because of injury), Magic could score when he wanted, but enabling his teammates was his way of leading.
When we look at the PGs that did win it all, they werent the 1st or second option on their team (excluding maybe the big O [i dont know enough about that era to make a statement about that]), this means that having a pass first PG can work, but to do that you need at least 2 elite scorers that arent the PG and an elite rebounder too probably.
Lets take Nash for example, excellent scorer, but not a player that can keep his efficiency while getting 25+ ppg, but if you place him around scorers of the caliber of Klay Thompson and KD (i name this 2 for lack of inspiration), that team would excel on the offensive end, KD doesnt need a player like Nash to score, but would surely benefit from having him, Klay is probably the best 3 and D player in the current NBA (or at least he was before injuries), Nash is certainly a 3rd option caliber scorer.
In conclussion, Pass First PGs can be used as a core to build a team around them, as long as you arent hoping for them to drop 15 assists and 35 points per game every night.
Being realistic, elite scorers can get 16+ points on a bad night, and 40+ on a great one, elite passers can get insane amounts of assists, and i think they would thrive on todays NBA, but their worst enemy is having to drive the ball from half court to the paint to generate space. If you look at Jokic, he is an elite scorer, but that also because he can play in the paint where the % of scoring goes up, and he is a willing passer just like Magic, which means that the other team has to be careful of his passes but cant neglect his scoring capabilities, because Jokic first option is always scoring unless someone is in a better position or has an easier shot (which is often because he is inside the paint with 2 7 footers on him).
You honestly make some good points, I never looked at it from the perspective of having pass-first pgs boost your scorers numbers. I still believe that it is a must to have a pg that can go out and give you 20 points in the current league if you want to have a chance to win a championship. You should subscribe to my channel, I think you'd really like it! I would love to have you here you seem like a massive NBA fan and we all are here :)
@@nkclouted i mean, ideally your starting 5 would be 5 20ppg players, but in reality having that is almost impossible due to egos and just amount of field goal attempts. What you want in general is a group of players that can score more than the rival team, no matter how the ppg are splitted among players, for sure you need at least 2 players that you can give the ball when the game is on the line and you need a basket, but NBA teams for a long time were built in ways that made superstars be always the reason of winning or losing, San Antonio with their Extra Pass offense destroyed that way of thinking of we need the best player in the world to win, they had 2 allstar lvl players (Tony and Manu) and an MVP Caliber player on Timmy, but the other 9 players on the roster did their part when they were on the court too, Tony and Manu are both insane scorers but were always willing to pass to the open guy, Duncan was a gravity field on the paint drawing everyones attention.
In the end, while having players that can make 20+ PPG, what you actually want is a 12 player roster than can score more than the rival team, being it by being better at defense and therefore making them score less, excelling at rebounding for 2nd chances, or having elite scorers that rarely miss.
But in my opinion, having 1 or 2 elite scorers is a flawed methodology because the pressure it creates for the 2nd option is not good, the 1st option can rely on the 2nd option when they have an off night, but the 2nd option doesnt have anyone to rely on, this creates massive amounts of pressure on those players. And no matter what sport you watch or play, no player is better than a whole team.
@@gastonzamora4985 You do make a lot of great points! No single player is better than a whole team. I think that there should be a mix of passing and scoring like you mentioned. In the perfect world, I would want my 1st and 2nd options to be primary scorers, followed by the third to be passing, and 4 and 5 shooters and defense. But I totally get why that could be super difficult to have. Thank you for subscribing btw! You're awesome :)
simply means if your ball handler doesn't have enough threat offensively, the defender can easily help others, but i think cp3 had one of the best midrange in the nba history
Definitely is! But I believe offense beats passing
I get what you're saying but, at the same time though Russell Westbrook and Damian Lillard never won one either.
Every hall of fame level pass-first point gaurd I can name has seen great success in both the regular season and playoffs.
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Magic Johnson
Bob Cousy
All of these guys have made it to the conference finals. All but one have made it to the finals. All but three have one a ring and 4 of them have won multiple.
Compare this with hall of fame level scoring point guards. Steph and kyrie are the only modern Era players with that skillset to make the finals. (Westbrook is more of a hybrid)
scoring point gaurds also were a lot more rare back in the day so you won't find much there. Jerry west was a primary two gaurd for most of his career but did play point on and off. I don't think that counts. Walt Frazier comes to mind with his championship, allen iverson, who made it to the finals, and Nate Archibald who was great in his prime but only won as a role player.
Point gaurds in general don't win championships much as the lead man. Only Magic, steph and Isiah did that.
I think there’s a lot that goes into it, but generally, having a scorer who isn’t bad at passing is better than having a pass first ph
@@nkclouted who was a better fit with James harden, Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook? How good were the suns with Stephon Marbury vs Steve Nash? my main point is important to understand. point guards historically are not the main stars of championship teams. so far only three have been able to do it. pass first PG's seem to have more overall success than scoring PGs. Recent history may be changing that though.
I paused and quit listening when you didn't mention worthy as "help" for magic lol ... epic fail
I’m not gonna lie i did sleep on worthy
Already Chris Paul has over 10,000 assists by the time you make this video.
Now I'm offended by what you're saying, because you're making it sound like one player can win a championship which is totally wrong
Otherwise LeBron wouldn't have had to go to the Miami Heat, Kevin Durant to the Warriors...
This is to tell you that the championship is a collective effort
Now I don't see what's wrong with the fact that they don't score enough and I don't like it but don't forget that their high IQ, their skills allow their teammates to shine, to play at their best level, to become a top offensive team
I don't know Nash or Stockon that well
But I know Chris Paul very well, he is my favorite player
And know that Chris Paul just didn't have a chance
When he was with the Hornets frankly we all would have been surprised if that team had done anything but they finished second in their conference and Paul almost was MVP
Then he almost went to the Lakers and maybe if he had we wouldn't have put him in this ranking but let's move on, he went to the Clippers
Raising the level of play of his teammates especially Ask Jordan who was an All Star, but frankly before the arrival of Chris Paul this team was not special so to win a championship in an era of superteam (Heat...) was very hard
I'm sure that if Chris Paul at the time was playing for the Heat, Spurs, Lakers he would have won a championship
The only valid teams in which he played are Suns and Rockets
With the Suns they went to the finals, unfortunately the injuries to Chris Paul and Booker hampered them, the lack of replacement for Ayton ... but that's the past
And with the Rockets in a Warriors sick superteam era they managed to finish first in the conference and led 3-2 in the conference finals before Paul got hurt and the Rockets lost both games in a row
Anyway, don't blame their style of play because it has nothing to do with it
I get what you are saying, and sorry about the delay in Paul’s stats, the notes I made were from last year. If you’re a big Chris Paul fan I suggest you watch the video I made regarding every team he’s saved.
And to touch on your comments, I wanted to get the point across that pass first point guards are still great players, but I’d rather have a scorer and a decent passer then the other way around. If the team isn’t hitting shots the pg can perform. The best example I could give is the Houston Rockets in game 7 of the 2018 conference finals. They missed 27 threes that game. No one was going and they lost.
I’m not saying pass first pgs are bad, just that when it comes down to crunch time, it’s difficult for them to perform!
Never the less thank you for the amazing comment u left!
@@nkclouted I will watch the video
And I agree with what you say
And there's nothing wrong with preferring a decent passing scorer over a pass-first
But I think that only applies to Stockon and Nash who are from a past generation
Chris Paul is certainly a pass-first but I wouldn't put him on the same level as Nash or the other one because unlike them Paul can give you 40 points if he has to
It's even a thing that annoys me with Paul because if he wanted to he could average more than 20-25 points per game
I do agree with you, but you can’t lie, he’s looking to get his team going more then himself. If you’re a big CP3 fan, I promise you’ll like the video I made about every team he’s saved! I’d also really appreciate if you could subscribe because I’m going to talk about how Chris Paul should have won the 2008 MVP
@@nkclouted That's true ! And yes he should have won It !
And i saw your video
That’s great! If you enjoyed it I’d really appreciate it if you could subscribe to my channel! You’ll like that you find here
Make a video about shoot first point guards 😂.
What an amazing idea loool
I am so fucking tired of hearing so many bullshits about why the phoenix suns did not win. Please go back and look at that team. There are only 2 reasons why the did not win: a cheap owner and a shitload of injuries. People think about that team as a 6-7 players core that failed 5-6 years in a row, when in reality that team was reshuffling every year because key players left because they did not want to pay them or were not available for whole seasons because injured.
Although I think injuries did play a role, you can’t forget that other teams could go through injuries as well. The suns did have more than normal though so I get it. But at face value, they just didn’t have enough talent imo
@@nkclouted Again, injuries + cheap owner. The first edition of the Suns with Joe Johnson was an amazing team, but they decided not to pay him, so they re-built it.
"Other team did it through injuries" -> No one did it with the second-best player and best scorer out for the season
More like better competition
They all played in different eras... which era had more competition??
And I forget one more thing
Whether it was the Hornets, Clippers, Thunders, Chris Paul was never the second option
At the Rockets yes he was
At the Suns we can say that he is after all he is 36 years old, the future of the franchise is Devin Booker
But in terms of production they just have different styles
I understand, I left a pretty big reply in your other comment. I also recommend you watch my video where I talk about every team Chris Paul has saved! It’s a really good video that highlights how teams are successful with Chris Paul
@@nkclouted Yes i saw it
I cant believe this video exists...you clearly dont understand basketball...true points maximize their teams potential.
I do agree to a certain extent but sometimes putting points up is more important than assists