With how the Foveon sensor works and how Sigma has implemented it in digital cameras, especially in their compacts and how slow operation is due to issues with focus, write speeds etc., I keep wondering if Sigma should think about an actual Foveon based rangefinder camera, a true manual focus camera that integrates well with the more thoughtful and slowed down process of shooting a Foveon sensor. Imagine an APSC Foveon rangefinder from Sigma. How amazing would that be...
That would be ideal, but doubtful, Sigma are great at pushing technology envelopes, not so much when it comes to designing cameras that are enjoyable to use, they tend to go too whacky and weird with ergonomics. The hope is that once they "perfect" foveon, they'll make it available for sale to other manufacturers like Fuji and Leica
I'm a huge fan of Sigma cameras. My current favorite: Sigma SD9 + battery grip + Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART. A true machine and just an amazing look that comes out of it.
DP2M until recently. Not enough time to spend getting the best out of it. Really enjoyed it for a few years though - even got along with SPP eventually!
the foveon architecture definitely has the potential to be better than what we have now. i get the idea behind it, where you don't want to waste the light by filtering away the colors you don't need, but actually each voxel of the sensor can determine the actual color itself. This principle could allow for up to 4x more resolution compared to color grid sensors, while still having the same light gathering 🤔 the problem is probably an independent accurate readout of the depths, a material composition for perfect depth transmition and voltage capacity problems for the color information in each depth. i think instead of just measuring red green and blue depth, it should consist of even more colors, which makes it more difficult to build, but also enables a greater color depth... but then, we can only see rgb, so what would be the point 😂😅
I gave a SD14 to my adult son along with several lenses and a dedicated Sigma-brand flash. While I had it I was able to master its quirkiness, especially white balance, noise avoidance, and the need to output the dinky-resolution RAW files as double-size TIFFs. Once you've added these processes to the work flow, the results can be outstanding. My biggest concern for my son, though, is his lack of editing knowledge, which will make it hard for him to get the results he expects from a DSLR.
Thanks for making me rethink my opinion on old cameras. I was so close to moth balling my Nikon D3s but your videos had me pick up the old friend again. Honestly it's still an incredibly capable DSLR even if it is 13yrs old now. Why should I give away what was a $7000 camera here in Canada simply due to age? It's still got incredible AF performance, speed and rugged build quality. The CIPA rating is something like 3000 shots so no need for multiple batteries. I put on my 50mm 1.4 and just go shoot.
Have a SD14 myself, it's not the fastest camera like you said and more time required in post but the colours output are slide film like. I picked up one at the flea market for $50, very happy.
@@snappiness Thanks. I've been using old manual M42 lenses on it with an adapter. Some Carl Zeiss Jenas, Tamrons, and for AF, old versions of Sigma zooms from the film era , which isn't the sharpest. One has to take extreme caution as some old manual lense's rear element can hit the built in infrared filter and damage it. The results from some of these old primes are sweet.
"More time in post".... as an AJA Cion owner, I can appreciate that comment a whole lot. Some cameras take more of an effort to get results others can not emulate. They're worth it for the right projects.
I got one too, now yeah compared to other cameras, oh boy it has issues. But given the right moment, right time, right light, right thing you want to shoot. It becomes very nice.
Total wishlist dream, would be Foveon Cinema camera. No one ever says if the Foveon sensor is Rolling or Global shutter, the ISO range limits would match the latter.
Can any of these foveon DSLR's do live view? I'd like a full spectrum camera and this seems like a good choice for shooting b&w rather than a bayer. Only reason i ask is there seems to be common focus issues with mirror cameras once the ir filter is removed. Did AF work ok shooting full spectrum?
Cool video, pictures look good! Reminds a bit about the K10D. I usually shoot at 100 iso anyway, if I can't get 50. But: What's the work your talking about? And what lensmount does it have?
Great review! As a proud owner of a SD Q I can relate to the initial learning curve required to master a Foveon camera. Is it worth it? You bet! It has forced me to slow down capturing the image out in the field but has saved me tons of time in post processing. Correct white balance and exposure are crucial with foveon cameras. (never use auto white balance)
I have learned that white balance lesson as well! I still to work on my technique with that in the field. Out of practice since I don't do it with any of my other cameras. Great camera though!
I really love the Foveon concept. i really hope though that they take their time and rather ship later than earlier so they make a solid comeback like apple with the M1.
more cameras should have the removable hot mirror, that is cool af. btw i'm looking to do a full spectrum modification on an old digicam, infrared filters do not exist here in my country and buying them, with the import law and taxes is almost equal to my monthly wages, my question is, can you take good, non black and white pictures without the filters, just full spectrum? did you take any full spectrum, no filter pics with this cam? good vid as always
I agree it would be an amazing feature for more cameras! The colorful leaf picture in the sequence was taken full-spectrum without a filter. I haven't shot a lot of pictures on any of my full spectrum cameras without an added filter, so I'm not as experienced, but from what I've seen it's colorful with lots of pinks/reds. I think if you played with custom white balance and in post you could get some really neat shots still. Bummer you don't have access to cheap infrared filters. I buy mine on ebay from China and they take a month to get here but are cheap. Good luck 👍
After watching this video when it came out, I've been fiending for a foveon sensor. KEH had an SD1 on a 10% sale, so I grabbed it and a lens. I'm very excited (and nervous). It will be a totally new experience, I've never shot with a camera that old (2012) and by extension never used a DSLR. But I love the way this camera renders images. It reminds me a lot of the HD MiniDV camcorders and I think it's an interesting aesthetic. Additionally since there are no OEM batteries anymore, do you have a recommendation for third party ones? I'm fairly sure the SD1 and the SD14 use the same battery.
I use Wasabi batteries without any problems. And have fun with that SD1! That's a beast of a camera. Just don't get frustrated if results aren't what you anticipated right off the bat. These cameras demand patience and practice. Hopefully it works out for you!
@@snappiness Thanks for the recommendation! I'll pick up a couple of Wasabi batteries. I did as much as I could with watching videos (such that they exist), viewing sample images and reading the couple quality reviews that are still online. So I feel like I have some idea of the hurdles of the camera and I fully expect to struggle initially, but I think that's part of the appeal of the sensor. I know the potential is there for amazing images I just need to develop the skills and shooting style to bring out that potential. I view it more as getting to watch that progress of learning to take photos again.
Getting the sd1 Merill with 14 mm 1.8 ……have the dp3 Merill find myself dishing out medium format images……Yes learning to post process can’t b stressed enough …….Im seeing most don’t realize they need to remove the blue tinge and how to make it pop …..Once u get this down …..You are getting much more for a lot less !!
Just recently found a SD14 (for AUD $300) then took a while finding a suitable lens. Finally got an adapter to take M42 lenses and found a crazy Sigma Filtermatic 28mm lens (for only AUD $39 second hand). It has 4 built in filters (red, green, blue and yellow) to experiment with. Really clunky and (so far) unpredictable but I am loving experimenting and getting to know the workings of this camera/lens combo!
Woah! The built-in filters are way cool! It is a quirky camera. I actually sold mine and kept my SD10. It's not any better, just quirkier, and I didn't need both :D The M42 adapter is one of my favorite things to do to the camera.
The Foveon cameras are like film cameras but digital, don’t shoot above 400 iso unless it’s ment for b&w conversion, everything between 10-200 iso will look stellar at even at 400 iso in good lighting
yeah have one, removed the IR cut filter for some IR photos... wanted to place it back and broke it :D but it is an amazing camera. I just wish it would be not so bulky, thats why I mostly take the DP3 Merrill with me :D
I had sd14 until it broke. About 8 years ago i got refurbished sd1 instead. I'm not a photographer but I know that snapping a good image requires a good camera, not a phone. Love processing raws to save into jpegs.
Have the sigma sd10 with powergrip,use it with a m42 miranda 28mm lens ,it hasn't live view ,its slow, in every shot except the manual focusing through viewfinder ,I'm trying hard for the correct exposure ,but the colours and the details of the photos are unique ,foveon is something different in every way and i love it!
I have my sigma dp1,2 and 3 merrill. These cameras are the best forever). I had sd quattro with some original lenses but I liked very much using it with 42mm adapter with manual prime lenses, mostly soviet like Helios, Tair ect. It was a great experience
Weird, this just popped up in my notifications as a new video… Sigma made a significant investment in acquiring Foveon, they must have a lot of faith in the technology. To me the idea makes complete sense, but Bauer filters have always felt like a kludge to me.
Pentax K10D, more versatile lens mount and camera in general. The Sigma SA mount is limited and the foveon sensor is good in some situations but not most! The CCD sensor on the K10D is lovely though.
Right. The actual resolution (file size) doesn't change, but sigma argues it resolves as much as three times it's native resolution, and it's gathering three times the information. Some of that is marketing, but it's also technically true. The actual results are debated but I think most people agree that at low ISOs it does perform like higher resolution cameras.
Man I love the style of your videos, I'm looking to get in to photography and buying my first camera. I believe you have inspired me more than most on UA-cam so thank you for that! I would absolutely love to see you do a beginners series, I think you would not only inspire but also help guide new comers like myself. I did have one question for you , as stated, I am looking to buy my first camera. Well I found a Pentax k20d with the original box and kit lenses local to me for $60. do you think this is a good starting point or would I be better served with a k5 or similar? Thank you in advance, anyone with insight please chime in!
Thanks for the kind words! $60 is a fantastic deal for that kit, and a great starter to get the basics of photography down. If you want to upgrade later you can, but at that price I think you can't beat that setup.
The crazy thing is there is nothing making those files inherently harder to work with, it's just that all software is programmed around working with bayer sensors and thus does not really work all too well with something this different.
Without a filter on the lens you are shooting full-spectrum (letting all the visible light and infrared in). You can certainly do that and play around with the look of it :)
@@snappiness thanks but you you have a recommend for a filter? I think the hoya 79? Infrared is recommended when you do film. Is their a recommended filter for color to get so the pinks and reds are not so dominating . So much of that info gets confusing to me.
@@unbroken1010 I use cheap neewer brand filters and those seem to work okay. The transmission won't be very accurate for those, but for $10-20 I can't complain versus paying $80-150 dollars. The more visible light you eliminate, the less color you have overall. Common ones are 590nm for colorful infrared shots, 720nm for color but lean more towards the infrared effect, and then 850nm which is really best suited for just black and white I think.
@@snappiness thanks you. that's the info I always forget and get confused about. I end up down a rabbit hole trying to research it 😁 much appreciated and stop trying to karate chop raccoons and squirrels when you out in the woods 🤷
The Infrared actually made the reds look more red Before Hot mirror was removed(my impression): The greens and blues look good. The reds turn into orange. After Hot mirror was removed(my impression): All of the colors look amazing(including red).
my photography growth with SD9 than SD14 now SD1m and so on. I just love these cameras. they're producing images just so different. crispness details, microcontrast are out of this world when compared to typical cmos sensors with bayern . do not try the sigma Q series. - these are not Foveon anymore. btw. these cameras as mentioned are hard to work with.. and anything above iso 200 is just mess, slow , very slow, sometimes lack dynamic range, with blotches at iso higher than iso 400.. althou with the skills and mindset X3 sensor produces quality images that are just unmatched in my opinion to most of the other cameras. I had many cameras in the past full frame 5D's , nikon D800 and others. sonys, panasonics, and even olypus, small , large, compact and hybrid (fz200, fz1000) but NONE of them draw so much attention than Sigmas. They are just unique. I think they will be more reare and prices will go up in next years. Tha'ts why I keep my collection of older dp1x, dp2, and so on.. Similar story with the 5D from Canon.. it's just so unique in it's own way. Sigma's with Foveon X3 sensor are just like that. Go and see some samples from Merrill series.. Dp1m , dp2m, dp3m they are just crazy.
The 14 or 15 is on my wanted list, I have a 35mm SA body and two Sigma mount lenses, but have never used them, as with early Sigma 35mm cameras the view finder has discoloured to such an extent the view is just a messy mass of purple, blue, shame as its a fine camera. The SD digitals have gone over the top on second/used prices for 14 and 15s, I just can't afford one, the Foveon sensor is superb and unique, I'd love to own, but I'm patient, one day maybe, one day. Thank you.
Yeah I agree about the prices. But if you get lucky and find one for a good price, it's a nice camera. You can also go with their newer SD quattro. Same lens mount, but it's mirrorless so you'll have a viewfinder. Quite a bit upgraded otherwise. That one hovers around $400, which seems like a good price for what it offers.
@@snappiness Agreed, it's just a waiting game, here in the UK, we don't have thrift stores as in the US, so I rely on Ebay for my searches, but it's good fun hunting down those elusive cameras, thanks for your reply comment, good hunting.
I had the SD10 and with good light it was giving interesting pictures that seem to have something more than other cameras, this is due in my opinion to the red being in front of the sensor, while bayer favors greens, the problem of the foveon was a bad blue channel. This was the first one to go as soon as iso 400 and even in the darker areas at 100 iso. So depending on the subject, it gave deeep sharp and clean pictures with a lot of air, some images were a real delight. Now with the canon 6d2 the pictures look a little fake, except if I take the 26mp and supersample up to 6mp, and there It looks like a sigma foveon picture, it is denser, NOT a "deconvoluted anti-aliased matrix". You can get this also with a true leica monochrom.
The Sigma digital cameras are the cameras for those photographers who rather shoot analog but can't afford it anymore due to high film cost. Approach those cameras with an analog photography mindset, and you won't be disappointed, in fact, you will love them. If you grew up taking pictures with your smartphone or other digital cameras though, you most likely won't be happy with a Sigma camera on first contact. You'll have a steep learning curve before you till you understand what taking pictures with these cameras is all about and finally grow into the position to discard all that marketing brainwashing telling you what a camera needs to be able to do. You will turn from master of gear into a photographer.
My SD14 often misfocuses with Sigma autofocus lenses, even when the autofocus system thinks that focus has been nailed. Is that a known issue of the camera?
I don't know how much of a widespread problem it is, but I definitely have had problems with autofocus accuracy. I complained about it more in my first impressions video. It's something that once I'm aware of it is not a huge deal for what I like to shoot. But it can't be relied heavily on.
I am a Pentaxian and I always want to try out the Foveon X3 camera, especially the "latest" SD Quattro H, since the price has dropped quite a lot, and very few people interested on such a slow camera that lacks video mode, so that I can get one at reason price. I heard the EVF is not very good on the Quattro hard to tell the focus, since there are very limited choice of lenses available for it so I will use M42 lenses, so MF is quite important to me, on the other hand the older SDs are DSLR I will feel at home with it. I don't mind it is slow, but I do worry about few things, such as the supported card types, 2G CF/SD is not widely available these days, also the battery is it still easy to find ? the last but most troubling thing would be the processing of the RAW file, I've to stick with the rather "annoying" Sigma's own processor since DNG is not supported (?) I guess I will get one of the fixed lens Quattro instead, but which one to get is the question.
Great questions. It's true Lightroom doesn't support newer Foveon files, but the SD15 and older are supported by Lightroom. So you can bypass the mostly terrible Sigma Photo Pro software. Some of the other Sigma models might be supported to, but I'm less familiar with those. The battery for the SD14 is the same as the Pentax K10D, and they are readily available from third parties for cheap. The SD14 should be able to support larger than 2gb CF cards. Though you are right CF cards are harder to find nowadays. I got lucky and bought mine with several CF cards included. Good luck on your quest to find a Sigma camera to try. They are quite interesting :)
Slow camera is an understatement. If you are used to fast cameras, then Sigma Foveon is not so great. But the files are great most of the time, and you're stuck at ISO 100 which really sucks. The way the menus work is wildly different to a Pentax which is well thought-out, brisk to navigate and quick to fire off. Taking a photo on a Sigma camera and waiting for the JPEG to buffer and display is upwards of 7-10 seconds. Put it to you this way, Pentax pixel shift is doing what a Foveon does by shifting the sensor, and it does it way way faster and processes way quicker. Bottom line is a Sigma Foveon is simply not worth their prices because of slowness, you can't shoot over ISO 100, and the menus graphical user interface (GUI) is really odd. They do not like poor lighting - the thing needs light. White Balance is definitely not as good as Pentax, in fact you need to set your white balance as auto white balance is pretty sketchy. Pros: you're getting medium format sized images around 50mp from apsc sized sensor. The resolution is excellent. 3D pop from not having any "Bayer Blur" from the interpolation of the Bayer Array. Conclusion: As a camera they are pretty s***. As a sensor, its fantastic.
There is no reason for that type of sensor unless it becomes super fast. If we want true RGB pixels for every spot, we already have prism cameras with 3 sensors that do that. The problem is they are only used in camcorders and only on professional ones that have a ton of features for live shows and TV which pumps the price insanely making them useless for the people who find the mirrorless type of cameras handier. I still hope that every camera in the future will feature an 3sensor prism technology.
Also, don't forget about how tack sharp the files turn out. Viewing images at 100% the files are crazy sharp when compared to their bayer brethren. Mind you, the files are super small. So they're small but sharp.
what's your opinion about more recent Sigma cameras like the SD Quattro? I've been trying to find one at a decent price but they either sell at teh same price is retailed at in 2014, or it's straight up impossible to find. Thos camera bodies are arguably the last true, good ILC cameras from Sigma with a foveon sensor, and you can't find them anywhere
I have a two more modern Sigma's that I'll get to know and feature on the channel later - my initial impression is I like that a lot better. The colors are coming out really nice from the get go, and then you can tweak them. Put a search alert on MPB for the SD quattro. It pops up every few months for a good price there, less than what's on eBay.
Haha i have this. Man its so cumbersome in processing shots esp for high file format and quality. Then cf card reader its always error writing probably the cf itself is the issue or the camera reader. Color for me is soft.But yes the body is a tank.
You know, the Foveon sensor always rubbed my engineering sense the wrong way. It’s a lot of effort spent on solving a non-problem. It’s all technical compromise for zero gain. All non-Foven color imagers emphasize the importance of spatial resolution by interpolating hue. This matches how human vision actually works. Foveon does just the opposite - just because? I don’t know… I’m still pissed at Sigma for the entirely crappy SD1 film SLR they made in the early 90’s (and stupid me bought.)
That's a really fair argument. I love the quirkiness and nerdiness of it, but I'd agree that practically it doesn't solve any problems. xD And the market has answered that as well. That's (one of the many reasons) why you don't see everyone shooting these cameras.
@@snappiness Keep up the great content, The world needs more genuine old camera reviews and less complains about this and that feature lacking on newer cameras
@@unbroken1010 And your point is? there's a thousand older channels but they're a whole different format mate. Here we're talking same subject, same editing style, same speech pattern, same music style when the photos queue in, etc. Nothing wrong with drawing inspo from somewhere else and my comment pointed out the few key differences that make this channel equally enjoyable.
@@Eff_Marti speech patterns? 😂 what are you the CIA or a terminator? 👽 people use that music because it's cheap or royalty free . this guy has a sense of humor that Mathias does not. Most photo channels show sample photos. Plenty of channels out there that do " is this old camera relevant videos. Even the camera guy had a whole series before they jumped to Do review.
Hey 👋 this is my new channel I just created for casual vlogs. Stop by and say hello 😀 Hope you enjoy the Sigma SD14!
done
kind of funnily ironic how this channel is now more famous, but you do you!
With how the Foveon sensor works and how Sigma has implemented it in digital cameras, especially in their compacts and how slow operation is due to issues with focus, write speeds etc., I keep wondering if Sigma should think about an actual Foveon based rangefinder camera, a true manual focus camera that integrates well with the more thoughtful and slowed down process of shooting a Foveon sensor. Imagine an APSC Foveon rangefinder from Sigma. How amazing would that be...
Up vote
That would be ideal, but doubtful, Sigma are great at pushing technology envelopes, not so much when it comes to designing cameras that are enjoyable to use, they tend to go too whacky and weird with ergonomics. The hope is that once they "perfect" foveon, they'll make it available for sale to other manufacturers like Fuji and Leica
I'm a huge fan of Sigma cameras. My current favorite: Sigma SD9 + battery grip + Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART. A true machine and just an amazing look that comes out of it.
A really special camera from that early DSLR era! Any of you photographing with Sigma's?
Sigma Quattro H, love it, but aint made for speed, its like shooting medium format thats the best way I can describe Foveon cameras.
Yes, Sigma fp/fpL, sd Quattro H, dpxQ, dpxM, dp1 and dp2. Still also have SD14 and SD15
DP2M until recently. Not enough time to spend getting the best out of it. Really enjoyed it for a few years though - even got along with SPP eventually!
I still have and use DP1m and 3m. with proper condition, none of now a day Bayer sensor can beat its ^^
I use the sdQuattro for personal work.:)
the foveon architecture definitely has the potential to be better than what we have now.
i get the idea behind it, where you don't want to waste the light by filtering away the colors you don't need, but actually each voxel of the sensor can determine the actual color itself.
This principle could allow for up to 4x more resolution compared to color grid sensors, while still having the same light gathering 🤔
the problem is probably an independent accurate readout of the depths, a material composition for perfect depth transmition and voltage capacity problems for the color information in each depth.
i think instead of just measuring red green and blue depth, it should consist of even more colors, which makes it more difficult to build, but also enables a greater color depth... but then, we can only see rgb, so what would be the point 😂😅
I gave a SD14 to my adult son along with several lenses and a dedicated Sigma-brand flash. While I had it I was able to master its quirkiness, especially white balance, noise avoidance, and the need to output the dinky-resolution RAW files as double-size TIFFs. Once you've added these processes to the work flow, the results can be outstanding. My biggest concern for my son, though, is his lack of editing knowledge, which will make it hard for him to get the results he expects from a DSLR.
It's a good day when a new Snappiness video drops! 🙌
It's a good day for me too :) a break from editing 😆
Thanks for making me rethink my opinion on old cameras. I was so close to moth balling my Nikon D3s but your videos had me pick up the old friend again. Honestly it's still an incredibly capable DSLR even if it is 13yrs old now. Why should I give away what was a $7000 camera here in Canada simply due to age? It's still got incredible AF performance, speed and rugged build quality. The CIPA rating is something like 3000 shots so no need for multiple batteries. I put on my 50mm 1.4 and just go shoot.
same here
Have a SD14 myself, it's not the fastest camera like you said and more time required in post but the colours output are slide film like. I picked up one at the flea market for $50, very happy.
Great find! For that price it's a steal. I agree it's taken some getting used to but I'm very happy with it now. Any suggestions for lenses you like?
@@snappiness Thanks. I've been using old manual M42 lenses on it with an adapter. Some Carl Zeiss Jenas, Tamrons, and for AF, old versions of Sigma zooms from the film era , which isn't the sharpest. One has to take extreme caution as some old manual lense's rear element can hit the built in infrared filter and damage it. The results from some of these old primes are sweet.
that's what i realised, i wish Nikon's Zfc used the sensor technology, it would've been a perfect camera.
"More time in post".... as an AJA Cion owner, I can appreciate that comment a whole lot.
Some cameras take more of an effort to get results others can not emulate. They're worth it for the right projects.
Yes... But the depth/product/finish. Nothing comes close. That I'm aware of. And it's old tech now. It's special.
I got one too, now yeah compared to other cameras, oh boy it has issues.
But given the right moment, right time, right light, right thing you want to shoot. It becomes very nice.
Total wishlist dream, would be Foveon Cinema camera.
No one ever says if the Foveon sensor is Rolling or Global shutter, the ISO range limits would match the latter.
Can any of these foveon DSLR's do live view? I'd like a full spectrum camera and this seems like a good choice for shooting b&w rather than a bayer. Only reason i ask is there seems to be common focus issues with mirror cameras once the ir filter is removed. Did AF work ok shooting full spectrum?
Another underated camera that went unoticed, thanks fot sharing this with us
Those are some lovely colors, is that all editing or due to the unique sensor type?
Foveon is my favorite excited about possible new sensor coming this year. Monochrome is like real black and white from those sensors.
Right! You get some of the same advantages as a traditional sensor without a Bayer filter for monochrome.
Love my SD Quattro and dp the dng was a game changer and I think the jpegs are ever really nice. Your exposure needs to be on point.
Cool video, pictures look good! Reminds a bit about the K10D. I usually shoot at 100 iso anyway, if I can't get 50. But: What's the work your talking about? And what lensmount does it have?
Great review! As a proud owner of a SD Q I can relate to the initial learning curve required to master a Foveon camera. Is it worth it? You bet! It has forced me to slow down capturing the image out in the field but has saved me tons of time in post processing. Correct white balance and exposure are crucial with foveon cameras. (never use auto white balance)
I have learned that white balance lesson as well! I still to work on my technique with that in the field. Out of practice since I don't do it with any of my other cameras. Great camera though!
I really love the Foveon concept. i really hope though that they take their time and rather ship later than earlier so they make a solid comeback like apple with the M1.
more cameras should have the removable hot mirror, that is cool af.
btw i'm looking to do a full spectrum modification on an old digicam, infrared filters do not exist here in my country and buying them, with the import law and taxes is almost equal to my monthly wages, my question is, can you take good, non black and white pictures without the filters, just full spectrum? did you take any full spectrum, no filter pics with this cam?
good vid as always
I agree it would be an amazing feature for more cameras! The colorful leaf picture in the sequence was taken full-spectrum without a filter. I haven't shot a lot of pictures on any of my full spectrum cameras without an added filter, so I'm not as experienced, but from what I've seen it's colorful with lots of pinks/reds. I think if you played with custom white balance and in post you could get some really neat shots still. Bummer you don't have access to cheap infrared filters. I buy mine on ebay from China and they take a month to get here but are cheap. Good luck 👍
After watching this video when it came out, I've been fiending for a foveon sensor. KEH had an SD1 on a 10% sale, so I grabbed it and a lens. I'm very excited (and nervous). It will be a totally new experience, I've never shot with a camera that old (2012) and by extension never used a DSLR. But I love the way this camera renders images. It reminds me a lot of the HD MiniDV camcorders and I think it's an interesting aesthetic.
Additionally since there are no OEM batteries anymore, do you have a recommendation for third party ones? I'm fairly sure the SD1 and the SD14 use the same battery.
I use Wasabi batteries without any problems. And have fun with that SD1! That's a beast of a camera. Just don't get frustrated if results aren't what you anticipated right off the bat. These cameras demand patience and practice. Hopefully it works out for you!
@@snappiness Thanks for the recommendation! I'll pick up a couple of Wasabi batteries. I did as much as I could with watching videos (such that they exist), viewing sample images and reading the couple quality reviews that are still online. So I feel like I have some idea of the hurdles of the camera and I fully expect to struggle initially, but I think that's part of the appeal of the sensor. I know the potential is there for amazing images I just need to develop the skills and shooting style to bring out that potential. I view it more as getting to watch that progress of learning to take photos again.
Getting the sd1 Merill with 14 mm 1.8 ……have the dp3 Merill find myself dishing out medium format images……Yes learning to post process can’t b stressed enough …….Im seeing most don’t realize they need to remove the blue tinge and how to make it pop …..Once u get this down …..You are getting much more for a lot less !!
Just recently found a SD14 (for AUD $300) then took a while finding a suitable lens. Finally got an adapter to take M42 lenses and found a crazy Sigma Filtermatic 28mm lens (for only AUD $39 second hand). It has 4 built in filters (red, green, blue and yellow) to experiment with. Really clunky and (so far) unpredictable but I am loving experimenting and getting to know the workings of this camera/lens combo!
Woah! The built-in filters are way cool! It is a quirky camera. I actually sold mine and kept my SD10. It's not any better, just quirkier, and I didn't need both :D The M42 adapter is one of my favorite things to do to the camera.
hey what mount is it ....or does sigma do their own mount
Hard to argue with the images it produces..
The Foveon cameras are like film cameras but digital, don’t shoot above 400 iso unless it’s ment for b&w conversion, everything between 10-200 iso will look stellar at even at 400 iso in good lighting
yeah have one, removed the IR cut filter for some IR photos... wanted to place it back and broke it :D but it is an amazing camera. I just wish it would be not so bulky, thats why I mostly take the DP3 Merrill with me :D
Would love if in this video you showed more of the dif between this and other sensors.
I had sd14 until it broke. About 8 years ago i got refurbished sd1 instead. I'm not a photographer but I know that snapping a good image requires a good camera, not a phone. Love processing raws to save into jpegs.
Excellent video! Amazing camera! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching as always!
Have the sigma sd10 with powergrip,use it with a m42 miranda 28mm lens ,it hasn't live view ,its slow, in every shot except the manual focusing through viewfinder ,I'm trying hard for the correct exposure ,but the colours and the details of the photos are unique ,foveon is something different in every way and i love it!
I have my sigma dp1,2 and 3 merrill. These cameras are the best forever). I had sd quattro with some original lenses but I liked very much using it with 42mm adapter with manual prime lenses, mostly soviet like Helios, Tair ect. It was a great experience
I forgot to cover it in this video, but I do have an M42 adapter and some of these shots were taken on adapted lenses.
Where you find the m42 adapter? It's hard to find now
Weird, this just popped up in my notifications as a new video…
Sigma made a significant investment in acquiring Foveon, they must have a lot of faith in the technology. To me the idea makes complete sense, but Bauer filters have always felt like a kludge to me.
Gorgeous photos.
How would you compare the SD14 with the K10D, which one would you prefer if you can only pick one ?
Pentax K10D, more versatile lens mount and camera in general. The Sigma SA mount is limited and the foveon sensor is good in some situations but not most! The CCD sensor on the K10D is lovely though.
@@snappiness RIght ! my first Pentax DSLR was also the K20D, I just missed the change to try out the CCD, and I will surely get one soon !
Awesome video keep them coming. I have a sigma dp1 and it can make some interesting images. The battery doesn't last very long though.
Great, now I want one...
What would you say is the "equivalent" resolution? That was always their advantage...
Right. The actual resolution (file size) doesn't change, but sigma argues it resolves as much as three times it's native resolution, and it's gathering three times the information. Some of that is marketing, but it's also technically true. The actual results are debated but I think most people agree that at low ISOs it does perform like higher resolution cameras.
Your photos are beautiful
You're very kind
So I have an sd15 and an sad Quattro, what is your editing workflow
Eu tenho uma dessas SD-14 como nova e é incrível as fotos!
Great presentation!
I'd love to see the Foveon sensor return. Until that happens, I will continue to shoot film.
Man I love the style of your videos, I'm looking to get in to photography and buying my first camera. I believe you have inspired me more than most on UA-cam so thank you for that! I would absolutely love to see you do a beginners series, I think you would not only inspire but also help guide new comers like myself. I did have one question for you , as stated, I am looking to buy my first camera. Well I found a Pentax k20d with the original box and kit lenses local to me for $60. do you think this is a good starting point or would I be better served with a k5 or similar? Thank you in advance, anyone with insight please chime in!
Thanks for the kind words! $60 is a fantastic deal for that kit, and a great starter to get the basics of photography down. If you want to upgrade later you can, but at that price I think you can't beat that setup.
@@snappiness That was kind of my thought as well, but its always nice to have a more experienced opinion. Thank you for the reply and your input.
The crazy thing is there is nothing making those files inherently harder to work with, it's just that all software is programmed around working with bayer sensors and thus does not really work all too well with something this different.
How is it for manual focusing?
When you take of the filter, you have infrared but do you still need a infared filter on you lens or your good to start to messing around?
Without a filter on the lens you are shooting full-spectrum (letting all the visible light and infrared in). You can certainly do that and play around with the look of it :)
@@snappiness thanks but you you have a recommend for a filter? I think the hoya 79? Infrared is recommended when you do film. Is their a recommended filter for color to get so the pinks and reds are not so dominating . So much of that info gets confusing to me.
@@unbroken1010 I use cheap neewer brand filters and those seem to work okay. The transmission won't be very accurate for those, but for $10-20 I can't complain versus paying $80-150 dollars.
The more visible light you eliminate, the less color you have overall. Common ones are 590nm for colorful infrared shots, 720nm for color but lean more towards the infrared effect, and then 850nm which is really best suited for just black and white I think.
@@snappiness thanks you. that's the info I always forget and get confused about. I end up down a rabbit hole trying to research it 😁 much appreciated and stop trying to karate chop raccoons and squirrels when you out in the woods 🤷
@@snappiness where you having luck finding the 10 dollar ones
I have the DP1 Quattro as my first camera and won't trade it. ♥️
Fantastic :) One of these days I'll try a foveon compact.
Beautiful photos!
Thanks!
The Infrared actually made the reds look more red
Before Hot mirror was removed(my impression): The greens and blues look good. The reds turn into orange.
After Hot mirror was removed(my impression): All of the colors look amazing(including red).
when the new camera is released I want it
my photography growth with SD9 than SD14 now SD1m and so on. I just love these cameras. they're producing images just so different. crispness details, microcontrast are out of this world when compared to typical cmos sensors with bayern . do not try the sigma Q series. - these are not Foveon anymore. btw. these cameras as mentioned are hard to work with.. and anything above iso 200 is just mess, slow , very slow, sometimes lack dynamic range, with blotches at iso higher than iso 400.. althou with the skills and mindset X3 sensor produces quality images that are just unmatched in my opinion to most of the other cameras. I had many cameras in the past full frame 5D's , nikon D800 and others. sonys, panasonics, and even olypus, small , large, compact and hybrid (fz200, fz1000) but NONE of them draw so much attention than Sigmas. They are just unique. I think they will be more reare and prices will go up in next years. Tha'ts why I keep my collection of older dp1x, dp2, and so on.. Similar story with the 5D from Canon.. it's just so unique in it's own way. Sigma's with Foveon X3 sensor are just like that. Go and see some samples from Merrill series.. Dp1m , dp2m, dp3m they are just crazy.
The 14 or 15 is on my wanted list, I have a 35mm SA body and two Sigma mount lenses, but have never used them, as with early Sigma 35mm cameras the view finder has discoloured to such an extent the view is just a messy mass of purple, blue, shame as its a fine camera.
The SD digitals have gone over the top on second/used prices for 14 and 15s, I just can't afford one, the Foveon sensor is superb and unique, I'd love to own, but I'm patient, one day maybe, one day.
Thank you.
Yeah I agree about the prices. But if you get lucky and find one for a good price, it's a nice camera.
You can also go with their newer SD quattro. Same lens mount, but it's mirrorless so you'll have a viewfinder. Quite a bit upgraded otherwise. That one hovers around $400, which seems like a good price for what it offers.
@@snappiness Agreed, it's just a waiting game, here in the UK, we don't have thrift stores as in the US, so I rely on Ebay for my searches, but it's good fun hunting down those elusive cameras, thanks for your reply comment, good hunting.
I am selling my Sigma SD14
I had the SD10 and with good light it was giving interesting pictures that seem to have something more than other cameras, this is due in my opinion to the red being in front of the sensor, while bayer favors greens, the problem of the foveon was a bad blue channel. This was the first one to go as soon as iso 400 and even in the darker areas at 100 iso. So depending on the subject, it gave deeep sharp and clean pictures with a lot of air, some images were a real delight. Now with the canon 6d2 the pictures look a little fake, except if I take the 26mp and supersample up to 6mp, and there It looks like a sigma foveon picture, it is denser, NOT a "deconvoluted anti-aliased matrix". You can get this also with a true leica monochrom.
i have dp2s and i very like this one
What lens did you use to take the first lizard photo?
If I remember correctly it was the Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro
@@snappiness
Thank you for teaching.
Also, could you tell me the name of the music that appears in this video?
The Sigma digital cameras are the cameras for those photographers who rather shoot analog but can't afford it anymore due to high film cost. Approach those cameras with an analog photography mindset, and you won't be disappointed, in fact, you will love them.
If you grew up taking pictures with your smartphone or other digital cameras though, you most likely won't be happy with a Sigma camera on first contact. You'll have a steep learning curve before you till you understand what taking pictures with these cameras is all about and finally grow into the position to discard all that marketing brainwashing telling you what a camera needs to be able to do. You will turn from master of gear into a photographer.
Superior color science ❤ at some costs. SD15 user here
Also, the later SD15 was a minor update BUT solved the ultraslow writing speed, adopting a faster processor
My SD14 often misfocuses with Sigma autofocus lenses, even when the autofocus system thinks that focus has been nailed. Is that a known issue of the camera?
I don't know how much of a widespread problem it is, but I definitely have had problems with autofocus accuracy. I complained about it more in my first impressions video. It's something that once I'm aware of it is not a huge deal for what I like to shoot. But it can't be relied heavily on.
Raw file samples?
"The nerds here will appreciate this with me", yes
I'd only get one for the Reds
I am a Pentaxian and I always want to try out the Foveon X3 camera, especially the "latest" SD Quattro H, since the price has dropped quite a lot, and very few people interested on such a slow camera that lacks video mode, so that I can get one at reason price. I heard the EVF is not very good on the Quattro hard to tell the focus, since there are very limited choice of lenses available for it so I will use M42 lenses, so MF is quite important to me, on the other hand the older SDs are DSLR I will feel at home with it. I don't mind it is slow, but I do worry about few things, such as the supported card types, 2G CF/SD is not widely available these days, also the battery is it still easy to find ? the last but most troubling thing would be the processing of the RAW file, I've to stick with the rather "annoying" Sigma's own processor since DNG is not supported (?) I guess I will get one of the fixed lens Quattro instead, but which one to get is the question.
Great questions. It's true Lightroom doesn't support newer Foveon files, but the SD15 and older are supported by Lightroom. So you can bypass the mostly terrible Sigma Photo Pro software. Some of the other Sigma models might be supported to, but I'm less familiar with those.
The battery for the SD14 is the same as the Pentax K10D, and they are readily available from third parties for cheap.
The SD14 should be able to support larger than 2gb CF cards. Though you are right CF cards are harder to find nowadays. I got lucky and bought mine with several CF cards included.
Good luck on your quest to find a Sigma camera to try. They are quite interesting :)
@@snappiness That's great thanks for the info. !
The evf is fine and not too bad
@@snappiness have you tried a c.f. to sd card adapter?
Slow camera is an understatement. If you are used to fast cameras, then Sigma Foveon is not so great. But the files are great most of the time, and you're stuck at ISO 100 which really sucks. The way the menus work is wildly different to a Pentax which is well thought-out, brisk to navigate and quick to fire off. Taking a photo on a Sigma camera and waiting for the JPEG to buffer and display is upwards of 7-10 seconds. Put it to you this way, Pentax pixel shift is doing what a Foveon does by shifting the sensor, and it does it way way faster and processes way quicker.
Bottom line is a Sigma Foveon is simply not worth their prices because of slowness, you can't shoot over ISO 100, and the menus graphical user interface (GUI) is really odd. They do not like poor lighting - the thing needs light. White Balance is definitely not as good as Pentax, in fact you need to set your white balance as auto white balance is pretty sketchy.
Pros: you're getting medium format sized images around 50mp from apsc sized sensor. The resolution is excellent. 3D pop from not having any "Bayer Blur" from the interpolation of the Bayer Array.
Conclusion: As a camera they are pretty s***. As a sensor, its fantastic.
Tolle Kamera, wenn man Geschwindigkeit und ISO vergißt.
There is no reason for that type of sensor unless it becomes super fast. If we want true RGB pixels for every spot, we already have prism cameras with 3 sensors that do that. The problem is they are only used in camcorders and only on professional ones that have a ton of features for live shows and TV which pumps the price insanely making them useless for the people who find the mirrorless type of cameras handier.
I still hope that every camera in the future will feature an 3sensor prism technology.
Also, don't forget about how tack sharp the files turn out. Viewing images at 100% the files are crazy sharp when compared to their bayer brethren. Mind you, the files are super small. So they're small but sharp.
what's your opinion about more recent Sigma cameras like the SD Quattro?
I've been trying to find one at a decent price but they either sell at teh same price is retailed at in 2014, or it's straight up impossible to find. Thos camera bodies are arguably the last true, good ILC cameras from Sigma with a foveon sensor, and you can't find them anywhere
I have a two more modern Sigma's that I'll get to know and feature on the channel later - my initial impression is I like that a lot better. The colors are coming out really nice from the get go, and then you can tweak them. Put a search alert on MPB for the SD quattro. It pops up every few months for a good price there, less than what's on eBay.
Haha i have this. Man its so cumbersome in processing shots esp for high file format and quality. Then cf card reader its always error writing probably the cf itself is the issue or the camera reader. Color for me is soft.But yes the body is a tank.
I use my k5 for shooting everyday 😁
The K5 is such a good camera :D
@@snappiness really?😂🤭
That's what she said with a bored face. 🤷😂
I bought sd14 after I got into sensors and it turned out they have removable filter
It's pretty cool :) Love the feature.
Genial :)
it looks like there's just way more color
Okay but really if Sigma releases a new foveon sensor camera next year I hope they send it to you!!
@@snappiness I’ll be all over it!!
I use a Sigma DP2 MERRILL
Why difficult to recommend?
It is the best digital B&W camera for the ordinary bread eater.
After i took pic with this camera i'll do Patrick Bateman Sigma Face
You know, the Foveon sensor always rubbed my engineering sense the wrong way. It’s a lot of effort spent on solving a non-problem. It’s all technical compromise for zero gain.
All non-Foven color imagers emphasize the importance of spatial resolution by interpolating hue. This matches how human vision actually works. Foveon does just the opposite - just because?
I don’t know… I’m still pissed at Sigma for the entirely crappy SD1 film SLR they made in the early 90’s (and stupid me bought.)
That's a really fair argument. I love the quirkiness and nerdiness of it, but I'd agree that practically it doesn't solve any problems. xD And the market has answered that as well. That's (one of the many reasons) why you don't see everyone shooting these cameras.
I am selling my Sigma SD14. Any of you interested?
I think you were a foreven in a past life
Foveon - HAHAHAHAHAHA
This channel gives me huge Mattias Burling bootleg vibes, but since your camera choice is different, and equally interesting, I'll give it a pass
Haha, good deal then :) thanks for watching
@@snappiness Keep up the great content, The world needs more genuine old camera reviews and less complains about this and that feature lacking on newer cameras
Like Matthias was the first😂 the weird lenses channel is older
@@unbroken1010 And your point is? there's a thousand older channels but they're a whole different format mate. Here we're talking same subject, same editing style, same speech pattern, same music style when the photos queue in, etc.
Nothing wrong with drawing inspo from somewhere else and my comment pointed out the few key differences that make this channel equally enjoyable.
@@Eff_Marti speech patterns? 😂 what are you the CIA or a terminator? 👽 people use that music because it's cheap or royalty free . this guy has a sense of humor that Mathias does not. Most photo channels show sample photos. Plenty of channels out there that do " is this old camera relevant videos. Even the camera guy had a whole series before they jumped to Do review.
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