It’s strongly believed that the guy who becomes PM of the UK SA the dark haired woman who Ruby apologized too. Her whole behavior and demeanor from before their meeting for the first time and then afterwards with how she completely changed towards him including how she dresses is how victims of SA behave. A lot of us survivors picked this up either during the episode as it aired or have seen it since!
The hiker was Susan Twist. She's been in every episode this season as a different character. Last week she was face on the Ambulances. Before that the tea lady in The Devil's Chord.
Except this time Ruby interacted with her and realized she had seen her before. Still wondering what it's leading to, since they've done the older Ruby saves the day in this episode. So, that's interesting, eh?
What really made me emotional was Ruby's line "Don't worry, everyone has abandoned me, my whole life. But I haven't been alone for 65 years". I'd like to think that not only was she talking about the 73 yard woman, but also of the memory of her friend, the Doctor.
There’s a theory, when the old Ruby said “everyone has abandoned me…” thing, it’s actually kind of curse to herself and make everyone who get close to “the old woman” ran away from “the young Ruby”. She said it, it comes true. Like the salt thing 14th invented accidentally when he was joking at the edge of Universe.
It reminds me of boom with the child saying her father wasn't gone, just dead. Now that I think about it, haven't most of this season had little lines like that?
Here my theory. This is Timeline A. In this Timeline The malevolent spirit called Mad Jack was trapped in the fairy circle. We have seen this before with The Toymaker is trapped in a box and bound in salt. When The Doctor broke the fairy circle he released Mad Jack who first erased The Doctor from the timeline (Remove your most dangerous adversary first) took over Ap William and groomed him to lead the world to global annihilation. But the creator of the fairy ring had placed a fail safe. The herald that would be used to stop Ap William achieving his aim, using Ruby as that herald as we know she is some kind of meta human. Then when Ruby is old, she becomes the herald and the loop starts again. For all we know this has happened a million times This time she is able to influence young Ruby, to stop The Doctor from stepping on the fairy ring, Mad Jack, is never released, the herald is never created, the loop breaks and now we are in Timeline B. I could be a million mile off but this is why I love this episode. There is no wrong explanation, but I can see that a lot of people will hate it as the solution was not bottle fed to them and it's open to interpretation.
But, if Ruby was the one to stop Roger ap Gwilliam, what happens in the restored timeline where she doesn't? I could accept that maybe stepping on the shrine was the thing that made him become Prime Minister in the first place (releasing "Mad Jack"), but then, the Doctor was talking about him almost causing Nuclear war BEFORE ever stepping on the shrine, and repeated his anecdote about him in the end even after Ruby "fixed" the timeline. Is it just because he's the Doctor and could somehow sense the aborted timeline? If so, why would he make fun of Ruby for seeing the woman? (which was odd, not only because he's seen much weirder stuff over the years, but also because, if he could sense the aborted timeline, why wouldn't he believe her?).. Or does Gwilliam rise to power regardless and the difference is he's stopped some other way (which would mean, Ruby really had no point in anything she did this episode, cause she actually didn't need to do anything about it)? I honestly did feel like it was a pretty clunky script, at least resolution-wise. Unlike the well-thought out writing of episodes like Turn Left, we never got any explanation of how older-Ruby went back in time to become The Woman in the first place, how she lived for so long or how and why she was able to teleport/keep exactly 73 yards away. We have no explanation of why the TARDIS wouldn't let her back in, or what caused the Doctor to disappear in the first place. Also, what could she possibly say to cause so many people to run away from her? I can MAYBE buy UNIT stepping back once they realise she's older Ruby, cause they don't want to mess with the timeline.. But, what made her own Mum run and turn on her? How did she possibly cause Gwilliam to quit, or get perfect strangers to run away screaming? If it wasn't supposed to be her, or was some sort of hex empowering her, then yeah, I'm sorry but I did feel like that should have been better explained. We get a sort-of explanation about it in the start with the people in the pub, but then even that gets immediately thrown out the window when we realise they're just teasing Ruby and don't actually mean what they're saying. It's not that I need everything "bottle-fed" to me, but I honestly think keeping The Woman a mystery would have worked MUCH better without the half-baked twist of her being older Ruby the entire time. Either that, or they should have better explained how the twist actually worked, cause I'm sorry but I can't see a reasonable explanation that makes sense.
@@micron000 The answer to the question of why the doctor knows about the prime minister, from what I’ve seen other people say: mad jack had planned to use the prime minister to cause nuclear war but he was stopped and bound to that circle by something or a group before he could initiate a war, and so the story of the prime minister is present in the regular time line, hence why the doctor knows him. When the doctor steps on the circle, mad jack is unleashed to finish what he started, but Ruby stops him once again and restores the circle.
@johnjames4834 I didn't say anything horrible, just pointlessly dismissive. I basically said, "So what?" But a bit more snidely. Irl, tone of voice might have changed it, but on here I was just rude.
I was so incredibly relieved by the sight of Kate and Unit, her voice just making me feel wonderfully warm. Then when even she walked away with the cold glare, it was such a slap in the face. This episode had so many amazing moments. I'm so happy RTD is back.
Yes! Omg like not having the doctor there to save the day made even the audience feel hopeless and desperate, then I see Kate and I’m like “oh yay the day is saved” and she leaves. I mean my heart literally sank. That was some incredible writing. I felt all of that as if I was experiencing it myself. And Millie Gibson is such an incredible actress like the pain and emotion on her face was palpable. That scene was really well done.
yes!!! I felt so relieved when she showed up, literally said out loud, "yes! kate! ok, we're ok!!" and then when all units went in at once I said, "no!! not all at once!!" and then I was so dejected, I felt like I had no idea how we could possibly figure this out without her
@@paulonius42 The Doctor broke the circle and therefore punished, Ruby read from it and had another punishment, Ruby was forced to constantly live with her older self following her, at the end of her life she goes back to the start to follow herself but this time she was able to stop The Doctor from breaking the circle
Anyone with an irl magic background will recognize a pocket spell.{said with sarcasm} Explanation: The magic at work here was to change reality to trap bad things. Because Ruby had just heard about Roger ap Gwyllium she then added that information to the spell which then in that moment completed as she read the scroll with the name Mad Jack on it. This is why the Doctor's voice fades out while she is reading it as in that moment our perspective is shifting to the new timeline that is being encapsulated in the Pocket Spell. Once the "energy of her lifetime" is done powering the spell, Ruby lives out her whole life up to the moment the end of her life seals the spell. The reason everyone runs away like they do: They're being faced with their mortality just like Ruby once at the end in the hospital room. All of this is happening in the Pocket of Time trapped in the Spell. What we get at the end of the show is the altered timeline minus the missing element now trapped in the spell: Mad Jack. TL;DR = The whole episode was a Pocket-of-Time spell being weaved and powered by Rubies lifeforce.
I can get behind this slightly but I shouldn’t have to have a background in occult/folklore to understand what’s going on they gave little to no explanation, one line of dialogue to hint at that would’ve been all that’s needed
@@SirZazz3040 "I shouldn't have to learn anything outside the show in real life, I want the show to spoon feed me all information so I don't have to take the time to think or find out."
This episode creeped me a lot tbh, I think those episodes in which you see the companion getting older always feel disturbing. Once she hit 30, I knew it was such an episode and we wouldn't see the doctor until the end. It was a great episode. Also Ruby validing the susan twist thing means there's something going on and theories about all being part of a story (maybe a character like the toymaker but he/she made a doctor who season? That would explain all those 4th wall break. To make this plot twist work I think ruby's mom should be this character)
@@grump9001 could be, yeah some meta thing with even the title and the fact that it's a new era could be all part of this villain plan. Would be dope as that would go further than basic 4th wall break with the character looking at us. Maybe we're just overthinking tho 😅
Same it was so creepy. And I totally didn't like that there was no Doctor in almost whole episode. And this jump at the end to the beggining like the present was so confusing. Because it seems to be a jump to past because it was past for old Ruby but for us it was the present
Thank you! People shouldn’t forget at all Ruby is not a normal human or maybe she is not human at all! She could have incredible power over time or space but she doesn’t know it she has yet to discover the truth
Is she her own "mother"? Did she drop baby herself off at that church? We will get answers eventually because the penultimate episode of the season is titled "The Legend of Ruby Sunday".
The lady in the pub with glasses and the red hat is played by the great Sian Phillips. She's also the original Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother in David Lynch's Dune, so if she's fortelling doom and witchcraft it's best to take notice.
Mad Jack is only released when the Doctor steps on the circle. So by the end when he doesn't step on the circle Mad Jack doesn't get released. A bit of a time loop but Ruby released how to stop it thus breaking the time loop and making sure she got her younger self to stop the Doctor from standing in the circle. The whole of the episode exists on a branch timeline hinted at by Kate and at the end of the episode she is returned to her proper timeline. I think that makes sense. Also another thing about what Kate says to her. I think the Tardis' perception filter leaks into the broken circle. Because the woman is 73 yards away the people who talk to Ruby first realise that the old woman is Ruby which makes them run away not wanting to talk to her again, so not necessarily what the woman says to the people because before they run back they turn back to look at Ruby. - But Hey, That's Just A Theory - - A Film Theory -
i liked this theory until i thought about kate. she's obviously quite experienced so something as simple as realizing the old woman is also ruby shouldnt have her react that way imo regardless a fantastic episode. my heart burns to know the answers to this mystery but as someone who's favorite episode is Midnight i cant complain about it too much haha
@@juanrivera4440 Kate didn’t walk up to the woman though. She only had a line of communication over the comms. Kate is the only acceptation to that theory though. I have no idea
I thought the same thing, but that really doesn't hold up sadly. if Ruby was the one to stop Roger ap Gwilliam, what happens in the restored timeline where she doesn't? I could accept that maybe stepping on the shrine was the thing that made him become Prime Minister in the first place (releasing "Mad Jack"), but then, the Doctor was talking about him almost causing Nuclear war BEFORE ever stepping on the shrine, and repeated his anecdote about him in the end even after Ruby "fixed" the timeline. Is it just because he's the Doctor and could somehow sense the aborted timeline? If so, why would he make fun of Ruby for seeing the woman? Which was odd, not only because he's seen much weirder stuff over the years, but also because, if he could sense the aborted timeline, why wouldn't he believe her?) Or, does Gwilliam rise to power regardless and the difference is he's stopped some other way (which would mean, Ruby really had no point in anything she did during this episode, cause she actually didn't need to do anything about him)?
@@micron000 In the fixed timeline at the end the Doctor doesn’t mention the nuclear stuff. The prime minster was just a bad person and terrifying but not bent on nuclear war. The theory is Mad Jack is released and becomes part of him and drives monstrous tendencies. We won’t know for sure because RTD wanted this one to be something to chew on and think about rather than be given the answers.
@@micron000 I have no idea, but I think it was written to be intended to be open ended and up to interpretation. Russell was a bit ambiguous in the corresponding Unleashed episode. Susan Twist has a much larger role to play though since she’s been in every episode
My favorite thing about this episode is that we ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have all the answers. I would have not liked this AS MUCH if everything was explained.
I think the dont step is relevant. First the stepping on a butterfly changed time, devils chord hmmm lol, step on a mine last week, step in the circle changed timeline again...just a thought
Step on the butterfly, step on a land mine step in the circle and the maestro was more or less an accident. It’s interesting symbolism never thought about it until now
I think that was important too I immediately thought about when she stepped on a butterfly and changed the course of history. But I think SHE changed it. Because she manifested it. It was weird, even the doctor looked really suspicious he was looking around like did that really just happen?
@@Happymama12 This season has had a lot of fairy tale/story book feeling moments, all around Ruby. Maybe she *does* make things magical around her, one way or another, without her knowledge or control. Maybe she is a side effect to the spilt salt at the end of the universe, like the toymaker.
The answer: this is a turning point in the timeline. The doctor says the same line in the beginning and end of the episode. Regarding the dangerous prime Minister. Because technically it's true. A man named Jack is released, elected, and brings the world to the brink of nuclear war. This is a fact. Because once upon a time, a person stepped on a circle. But this time, Old Ruby distracts Young Ruby. And the circle is never broken. Now, even though we don't see it.....the Doctor, at this exact moment, no longer has knowledge of a 2046 nuclear war. It never happened. His knowledge would have disappeared seconds later when the time line changes. And he'll never know. This history never happened. It's very Star Trek or Stargate when you realize that the cast of characters you are following for an episode is the 2nd iteration. The 2nd loop.
Turn Left, Utopia, Last Of The Time lords. There will be something special about Ruby just like Clara. Kate did mention "this timeline" and Mrs Flood's door is Tardis blue.
I have watched this episode three times I’ve come to the conclusion that this episode ties together many of the elements that we’ve seen so far this season, the ropes and knots from the goblins, the butterfly effect of how one small misstep can change everything, the concept of changing memories which we saw on space babies when the doctor memory of baby Ruby being left on the church was changed slightly. I have a feeling this episode is going to make a lot of sense when we’ve seen all of the episodes of the season kind of like how silence of the library with very confusing until we learned exactly who river song was then it made perfect sense.
And this might not even be anything but do you remember in wild blue yonder when the doctor wonders where the tardis goes when it flies off at random? And he says maybe it goes to some outcrop by the sea and people worship it. And here it is, on an outcrop by the sea with people leaving flowers and notes next to it.
My take on the timey wimey stuff. At first in the 'broken circle' timeline the Doctor mentions Roger Ap Gwilliam (Mad Jack) as a bad Prime Minister, because he has knowledge of how the future plays out in that timeline.Then the circle is broken, Ruby reads the notes and Mad Jack is released, insuring that future comes to pass. When Old Ruby (73 yards woman) circles back around in the timeline to 2024 she prevents the Doctor from breaking the circle, making sure Mad Jack was never released/born creating a new (Unbroken Circle) timeline. Which is why the old lady disappears. The Doctor mentions Roger Ap Gwilliam but this one was never possessed by Mad Jack.
I thought it was a good homage for “Midnight” it was like the reverse. People where shouting at her and there was knocking a at the door. In small setting spray fed by darkened. It was super creepy. In the end the politics wasn’t the most important thing just a goal that Ruby set her self for
The lady at the bar, Enid Meadows, is played by Dame Jane Elizabeth Ailwên Phillips, known professionally as Siân Phillips, who also played the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam in Dune (1984).
Because the circle wasn't broken, the stuff with the Prime Minister won't happen. They didnt really explain why, it's just how it is. The only real question left is WHY did they freak out so bad when they encountered her, and what's with the hand gestures? It's probably connected to Ruby's mystery.
Yeah I feel like Mad Jack was goin to be stopped regardless Ruby was involved or not. The Doctor creaky said “he was the worse prime minister almost caused a nuclear war” meaning Mad Jack didn’t
TLDR: time is all happening all at once all the time. Also wall of text but my mind went wild. I'm intrigued by the supernatural aspect of this. My theory is that when they originally step on the thing it creates a branching timeline where the doc gets kidnapped by faeries. As far as the mechanics of the time travel would go. First id definitely say Ruby's powers or whatever are messing with things (my theory is like memory stuff.) I would say mad jack was trapped in the circle in some way. The timeline thing is timey wimey because while the doctor hasn't been to Wales with Ruby to release him 'yet' some of his future knowledge is based on stuff he hasn't done yet like this. So he has been released at the same time he hasn't been yet. Remember time is not linier. When Ruby prevented her younger self and the doctor from releasing him it retroactively erases him from the timeline but he still exists in the future of the past from before this point, I think. The end kinda got away from there but that's what I've drawn from it all. Very interested to see what is up with Ruby tho.
Keep in mind that in the beginning, the doctor says he ALMOST brought the world to the brink of nuclear war. After they break the circle it seems ruby is splintered into a timeline where he would have destroyed the world.
My theory: RTD had a super effective & creepy idea that most of the episode runs with, but either couldn't figure a satisfying resolution or, and I think this might be more likely, chose not to resolve it so he can lean into wanting to make things more supernatural. I'm just being a grumpy old man who doesn't like trying to create theories to solve things that were intentionally not intended to be solved.
Here's a few of my theories: (There's still a lot which doesn't make sense and we probably won't get the actual answer to, and that's why I really like these sort of episodes.) - This episode once again included a folk law/superstition thanks to the salt at the edge of the universe. The cliff's being the barrier between the land and the sea, and fairy circles etc. - The circle of string or shrine was made by future Ruby, a scroll with "I miss you", in reference to Ruby missing the Doctor, on it, and "Rest in peace Mad Jack". - The Doctor and Ruby landing in Wales at the start was future Wales after Mad Jack's death, hence the scroll saying rest in peace Mad Jack. Once Ruby read the scrolls, she time travelled into the past back to 2024. She reaches the pub, and asks to pay with her phone and begins to explain what that is as she's unsure what time period she's in. She tells the people in the pub about the circle of string, Mad Jack, and the scrolls and they end up joking with her. At this time they're unaware of who Mad Jack is, as he's not a public figure or the prime minister yet. - Fast forwarding to the end of the episode when the woman is in the room with Ruby, Ruby dies and turns into the woman somehow? the story starts all over again, looping as many times as possible, until Ruby spots the woman right before The Doctor breaks the circle. Ruby warns The Doctor, and the woman vanishes at last. The distraction gave time for Ruby to prevent The Doctor from stepping onto the string and breaking the circle. The woman has finally broken the loop, her job is done, and prevented the nuclear future with Mad Jack from happening. - The woman could've been purposely deterring people away from Ruby whenever they approached her, as a way of always making sure Ruby was alone. She set the path and influenced the story in order to get Ruby to the very end where she turns into the woman, and allows this loop to happen. The loop could've happened a dozen times until Ruby finally notices her, allowing her to stop The Doctor from breaking the circle just in time.
Okay that’s my favorite theory so far! But it might be that the doctor is just sent away to a different time line? Maybe the past. So either Ruby wrote the notes and made the circle at some point in time. OR the Doctor wrote the notes and made the circle. He was just stranded with out the TARDIS
I thought they land in Wales in 2024 but it makes total sense. But if it was in the future how she would come back to her home and mother looking the same
I loved the episode despite being utterly confused! Everything was done so well, and I love companion centric episodes. It checked all the boxes, minus more narrative ending exposition. I didn’t need it spelled out for me, just would have loved more to this story or even a two parter!
Well he had said all he did just like before. He stops when he realizes it’s spoilers because it encroaches on Ruby’s timeline. Things don’t get changed/reset until Ruby sees her older self and stops the doctor from stepping on the circle. That’s when the branch timeline is avoided and she disappears entirely because she never existed.
😊 I completely forgot that Ruby age wise is similar to rose from series one. So of course she’s a 20-year-old kid who hasn’t gone anywhere in her life, practically, and now she’s the middle of this weird crap without the help of the doctor so she’s scared she doesn’t know what’s going on and she doesn’t know what to do.
This was the very 1st episode Millie Gibson shot with production starting in December 2022, they were her first days on set after leaving soap opera Corronation Street. Ncuti was unavailable due to finishing Sex Education which is also the main reason David Tennant & Catherine Tate were a large part of the 60th, Ncuti couldn't be a part of it.
@@francisco_m7849 There are often "Doctor-lite" episodes in seasons usually with 2 units shooting different episodes at the same time like "Blink" in S3 or "Turn Left" in S4 but this was productions attempt to get moving without Ncuti until he was avaliable
The Doctor says "on the brink of nuclear..." not that he actually launched any nuke. So Roger will probably still be Prime Minister but he's not Mad Jack, who I am assuming is a totally separate entity that latches on to that person they're talking about when the circle is broken. And that's how Ruby gets to live to the end of her natural life (as opposed of, say, to dying in a nuclear holocaust, in which case I think Mad jack would have won?) and to be, I guess, sort of projected back into this branch of the timeline to the point where it was created.
The Doctor did not say anything about Mad Jack the second time. Actually, he started to, but once Ruby stopped him from stepping on the Fairy Circle, he stopped saying it. I think that Me s it would no longer be a thing.
This is Russel T Davies at his strongest!! Absolutely love this episode, and I have a feeling it will go down as a classic! What’s crazy is all of the little details sprinkled in this episode, it reminds me a lot of what you would find in Blink! Because, if you pay attention, the doctor not only caused all of it by stepping on the Fairy Circle, but because he said or told ruby about a future event by accident, asking her what time she was from but saying the wrong date, revealing about the future prime minister and what he would do! The doctor said Spoilers after the fact, an exact reversal of what River used to say when the doctor would ask her, she would always say Spoilers but never tell the doctor exactly what will happen! But what’s interesting, is if ruby changed that future event from happening, perhaps it’s why at the end of the episode, the dialogue is different between the doctor and ruby, but does that mean a new timeline was made? Timey Wimey?? lol 🤔 But as to why everyone kept running away when they talked to future ruby, besides being there to scare the prime minister, all we get is…Ask Her? I feel like there is something else she said to them to fill them with dread!? But absolutely fantastic episode! ❤️
I don't think the fairy circle had much to do with what happened this episode, she clearly has some reality warping powers, like when she mentioned stepping on a butterfly and it happening, mentioning Star Trek and the crew had the outfits, the snow. There's something up with her that will probably be revealed, related to the magical stuff that's going on. I hope it's got something to do with the trickster, which would make a whole lot of sense considering his lore, his scrapped story plans that seem to be occurring now, and the pantheon.
Yeah the whole season has been nothing but "Myths" and almost magical gods that can bend reality. This is for sure where it is headed. The butterfly things make sense cause it doesn't fit with the rules of the universe, and doctor was kind of confused too.
Kate and the pub gave us all the "hows" we need, it had nothing to do with the supernatural. Russel T Davies even said so in the behind the scenes. If you must have a practical explanation, landing the TARDIS's perception filter on a fairy circle causing Ruby's perception of herself to come to life and haunt her is plenty. It's the same as the salt between universes from Wild Blue Yonder that caused everything this season, bc like Doc and the old lady in the pub both said, the clifftop is a liminal space between the land and the sea, where the rules don't apply. The episode was somehow still entirely sci-fi, just like past "meta-story" bits like The Bogeyman, and I find that impressive. More importantly, that means we can toss that to the side, bc the only thing that actually matters is what it teaches us about the characters, like with Ruby's fear of abandonment (semperdistans. The Woman keeps everyone away from Ruby because of her own perception of herself, including the Doctor) and what one might do when you never receive the closure you expected. We got plenty of closure with the ending of the episode, people who say otherwise are trolling, the point is that during her journey, Ruby did not. That's why Roger ap Gwilliam is such a simple character who had nothing to do with anything supernatural, and why defeating him didn't stop Ruby's situation. The important thing is that Ruby was convinced it would. That she had a purpose here. (they straight up tell us to our face TWICE that the moment is purely symbolic) This is also why The Woman very explicitly is NOT Old Ruby, they aren't even the same actress. (check the credits or behind the scenes, Old Ruby is Amanda Walker, The Woman is Hilary Hobson) The snap back to the present is the first time Ruby actually reaches out to The Woman instead of chasing her or staying away (i also wonder if the time added up, 66.7 meters = 66.7 years? would be fun) When it comes to potential future threads related to this, i really don't think it makes sense to expect the finale to fully spell out the message and meaning of this episode, that's not necessary at all. But I do think this helps tease a greater context for later, since it seems like they're hinting at The Oldest One being a Pantheon member that's a living story, and has powers based on that, just like Toymaker and Maestro. Given that the memory of that Christmas straight up changed itself during Space Babies, and that the unique musical cue played in that moment was also played here when The Woman finished the circle and allowed Ruby to warn her younger self through her body instead, I wouldn't be surprised if the living story is Doctor himself. It would fit with The Timeless Child and what Toymaker said as well, but that is definitely still a bit more out there. Whatever story they are in could reasonably have given Ruby her powers too. I'm reminded of how tv-static or interference is often referred to as snow, and Ruby makes it snow whenever she starts to think too much about her mysterious origins
My questions: where was the doctor? What was she saying to terrify to the core everyone? How was she teleporting all around Ruby to keep being in her sight and at 73 yards? And what's actually happening on the hospital bed, does she teleport from the bed to the cliff?
I don't know where the Doctor went, but RTD said the audience should think of the worst thing one could say that would be awful enough to drive a mother away from her daughter. So I think we should also apply the same to the others who ran away too. I think the hospital scene at the end (& the heart monitor beeps) indicate the death of Ruby. Therefore, the 73 yards old lady is a ghost of sorts & is able to vanish and materialise, as apparitions are supposed to do.
I think Ruby is able to loop time, like create variations of herself, so at the end, the old woman version of her still exists and she still stopped the PM, but the Ruby we are now following is a version of her that never had to do that
We need to assemble a top team to get Russell to write satisfying endings. I’m not expecting all of my questions to be answered, but Jesus, they may as well have said ‘and it was all a dream’. Good god lmao
Why can’t the Doctor remember what time Ruby is from, he’s had to ask twice, that’s not something he would forget so does Ruby have a field around her like the Tardis that gives her that seen but not retained affect, is that the camera affect we see? The hiker was that actress that keeps showing up in episodes, you have seen her John…a lot. The woman in the bar is just like the actress in the Alfred Hitchcock movie the birds, Mrs Bundy, when people in the dinner start talking about the birds attacking she’s very smart and acts as if the people around her aren’t very smart, it has to be on purpose that they did that because they are so similar. This entire episode was shot very Hitchcockian, close shots on faces, quick switches between characters, driving the drama. Watching you two guessing things and then them happening was so much fun. The fact that humans have figured out that everything you think could be real is real and have created forces to face it all is great back story, they need Torchwood back to do supernatural stories.
Ugggg I have so many questions! Where was the Doctor? What did the older Ruby say to freak people out? Who made the fairy circle? What was she signing? And who the hell is Susan Twist!?! This is her 6th appearance plus the song at the end of The Devils Cord, There's always a Twist at the end?!!! God I love this show!
This is so fucking scary and sad episode. When her mom abandond her and said she isn't her daughter I cried inside. I can't. I couldn't watch. Had to pause. Why they went that far?
Kate said did say that "the time line had been suspended..." Ergo an open loop (close loops repeat) that runs it's course then resets into a different timeline identical to the beginning of the previous time line that diverged. Timey whimey stuff.
I just noticed when she’s having that date in the bar and she leaves the guy to save the world, you can see Clara stood at the bar!!! I’m so excited to see if they bring her back as she’s in the doctors timeline
5:39 oh she is familuar thats susan twist whos apeared in every episode so far, woman in the bar who asks ruby to play a song in chirch, one of the crew in space babys, the face of the ambulance in boom and now the hiker its a ongoing mystery as to why
The thing some people don't seem tp understand (and I didn't get it on first viewing) is that Ruby doesn't need to save the world from Mad Jack/Rodger ap Gwilliam if Ruby and The Doctor never release him/it fromthe faury circle in the first place. Excellent episode!
I also called that it was her from start, like Amy and Rory/just Amy in the drill episodes where they meet the Homo Reptilius. I did start to doubt it as the episode went on, but I felt very validated by the end. The Toy Maker, The Maestro, The One Who Waits all seem to very supernatural and fae-like, like tricksters. I think something that a lot of people don't realize about Faeiry Circles in folklore is that if you step into one, it's essentially a way yo abduct you into the fae realm. I think that's what happened to the Doc. He got abducted into some weird extra dimensional fae space when he broke the circle and released Mad Jack, and the curse of sorts that Ruby had of herself, allowed her to go back and stop him from being abducted in that timeline.
I think Russell T Davis was more inspired by British 1970s Folk Horror than M.Night Shyamalan, certainly in the first third. It really reminded me of a 2022 film called Enys Men.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but at the very beginning the Doctor referenced ‘The War Between the Land and the Sea’ - which has already been confirmed as a spin off series of specials featuring UNIT, and has been registered as a production title by Bad Wolf.
32:07 When the Doctor mentions the future PM he’s already on a trajectory to step on the fairy circle. So if breaking the circle made it possible for him to become PM then traveling back to prevent the circle from being disturbed would also prevent him from rising to power.
The lady hillwalker is actress Susan Twist and so far in Doctot Who she has played; Wild Blue Yonder - Mrs Merridew The Church on Ruby Road - an unnamed woman Space Babies - Gina Scalzi The Devil's Chord - tea lady Boom - Villengard Ambulance AI 73 Yards - hiker
The locals in the Pub are actually giving you the story. Mad Jack was released when the Doctor stepped on the circle, he was creating the PM he's talking about. He released the entity/spirit/fairy that basically becomes a changling, taking the place of Roger AP GWilliam who then grows up to be the PM and destroy the world through Nuclear war. A bit like The Omen storyline. By preventing the breaking of the circle, she finally prevented that timeline and the rise of the evil entity Mad Jack. That's how I see it.
My belief is that the doctor knows the current timeline when he said that about mad jack which was the timeline where they're going to step on the circle and her "Punishment" for reading the notes and releasing jack, was to live a life alone essentially, but then at the end, she was allowed to go back and stop him from escaping, maybe as a reward for stopping him, or maybe just so that going back would stop him from getting free but she had to live her punishment first... but that's why the doctor didn't say it again about jack because he sensed the new timeline he was in after she lived the life and came back.
Just putting my own theory out: Russel T Davies claimed that with this season of Who, we'd be seeing more god-like entities, as we've seen with the Toymaker and Maestro. BUT... this episode struck me as eerily similar to the episode Turn Left, where Donna lives a whole other life due to the Time Beetle that attaches itself to her. That Beetle was part of the Trickster's Brigade. What if the fairy circle is part of the Trickster's Brigade, and The Trickster is also the One Who Waits? Probably won't happen, but it would be an interesting thought.
This episode reminds me of mix of Midnight (4x10) and It Takes You Away (11x9).... these creepy mysteries primarily taking place in the middle of nowhere that you have to work out... if you can. There are still answers we didn't get - like in Midnight. What happened to The Doctor? Why was Ruby stuck in this loop? Why did everyone who talked to her future self run away in terror? It's kinda cool that we DIDN'T get those answers. Because we usually do, we usually get all the answers. I think it's interesting to have episodes like this that keep some answers to itself.
How would you react if someone was pointed out as the person that caused a nuclear war? I bet THAT was what they were told. Changing the timeline back keeps Ruby from weaponizing herself and messing over Mad Jack's nuke plans...
I think the reason the doctor knew about mad jack, is because them breaking the circle is what was MEANT to happen, but ruby somehow changed the timeline so they don't break it.
Its sorta the Bootstrap Paradox. Was she always the woman? Did the events happen because they stepped on the Circle? or was it always going to happen regardless? Since its a "Fairy Circle" we have to assume its a sorta magic that allowed her to take on an existence which later on would stop MadJack from his potential Nuclear War. What's likely is that something or someone scared MadJack in the future, Someone who wasn't Ruby. But because Ruby and the Doctor stumbled upon the Circle and broke it, the spell took Ruby and made her part of the events in order to keep the timeline in tact and to stop MadJack. Ruby became the very existence that originally scared/stopped MadJack in the future. We don't know for sure the events, but to summarize this is the likely scenario - The Legend/Prophecy of MadJack is born, origin unknown. Someone forms the Fairy Circle, in order to stop him. - Something/Someone stops him in the future, something to do with the spell made by the Fairy Circle - The Doctor and Ruby (who are logically character traveling between Times, so they shouldn't even be there) come upon the Circle, The Doctor accidently breaks the circle and is banished into non-existence. - Ruby is chosen by the spell to Re-complete the task of stopping MadJack. She succeeds. - She becomes the entity of the Spell, allowing for time to be "Rewritten". Hence we return to the moment they stumbled upon the Circle. The entity warns Ruby not to break the Circle. And Ruby listens, saving herself and the Doctor - The entity of the spell stops MadJack (perhaps Ruby, perhaps not) In short, its either the Bootstrap Paradox or its magic...
This episode was also giving heavy Trickster vibes from Sarah Jane adventures. He tries to influence people in subtle ways to unleash chaos and Armageddon. When the Doctor broke the circle he accidentally unleashed one of the Trickster’s minions or heralds or something to influence the politician to unleash nuclear Armageddon. Something special about Ruby allowed her older self to echo backward through time to put her younger self on the path to stop him. This involved needing to isolate her from the Doctor, her family and even UNIT because her connections would’ve interfered. Once she completed the time loop she was able to go back and stop the Doctor from breaking the circle in the first place thus preventing all this from happening.
I keep thinking about the goblins being attracted to Ruby as she was surrounded by "bad luck." If Ruby is somehow connected to The Trickster, she may have herself manifested these goblins without even realising.
As a Brit I dunno if feel honoured or offended by your intro lol!!! This was a good ep loving that I’m excited about who again, great reaction as always 💙💙
Yeah and then again and the end! Greg is being awfully cavalier knowing how much he is liked that he can do such a minor hate crime and get away with it lol (cos it is the internet I must explain I'm joking)
@@marshsundeen ....And making fun of stereotypes of Americans, (how the rest of the world sees _them)_ 😁; that is being ignorant/having narrowminded perceptions of other cultures & countries, being massively self-absorbed & egocentric enough *_not_* to realise that American-English is the bastardisation of English, so where it originates from would generally not be seen as the incorrect version. LOL
I think the Doctor knew about the Prime Minister outside of the timeline for the same reason he knew that Ruby's not supposed to be a lizard person and that mavity used to be called gravity. He's a complex event in time and space, so his awareness has a wider scope than his immediate position in spacetime.
i took it almost as like a metaphor for the doctors' companions leaving everything behind. IF the doctor wasn't around, Ruby, as his companion, would have been able to save the world without him. the companions are such an integral part of the doctor teaching his philosophy of peace and trying to avoid war, so i think the woman convincing all of ruby's contacts to abandon her was proving that even if you have no one, You yourself can do so much and you're not alone.
It’s not like we haven’t seen alternate timelines. Amy was always in one. She killed Madam Cary…but didn’t….but still remembered it. Donna was in a timeline in “Turn Left.” The doctor said that was a parallel universe that interacted with Rose’s. I think that a lot of this will be explained more as the season goes on. Who made the circle and why….and what was old Ruby actually saying to make everyone run?
I remember the master, who was trapped in the Toymaker’s tooth was picked up by a hand with red nails. Maybe Kate took the master to experiment on it…?
@@eh708aaaaah i keep forgetting that detail. But if it’s Kate pulling out the master from some were point in the future. How does she grabbed the tooth from the tower! It was as if someone took it out of thing air 🤔
Here’s my theory for the episode and what I think is happening!!! I think when they went up to the old ruby the old ruby’s face turned young and that scared everyone away I think this worked especially with rubys mum with tuff love I think older ruby told her mum she needs to run away and never see her again to keep her safe this would explain why her mum pushes ruby away by saying something so opposite to who her mum is by saying she’s not her real mum this is enough for ruby to feel abandoned and stay away from her mum allowing the timeline to remain the reason mad jack and all the others ran away is because they also saw old ruby’s face turn younge I think old ruby can also send information through peoples minds because she interacted with them when she was younger so older ruby told unit that she needed everyone to leave her younger self so she can stop mad jack who will cause world war 3 and fix the timeline. in the end ruby dies and her spirit goes back in her younger self, preventing the doctor to step changing the timeline back to normal!!!
Ever since 13 regenerated into 14, time has become that much more breakable. There's no longer any mention of 'fixed points in time', and there are multiple examples of history randomly changing without the Doctor seeming to be able to prevent it - 'mavity', the Toymaker introducing the giggle into television, the goblins killing Ruby as a baby and changing the future, Maestro transforming the 20th century by destroying music, Ruby killing the butterfly and temporarily changing human evolution. Some of it is being played for laughs, some of it is significant, but the sheer volume of changes in history over only a few episodes of the show is unprecedented in the show's history. The Doctor had previously stopped Roger ap Gwilliam, but when he stepped over and broke the fairy circle - very much like the use of the salt superstition at the edge of the universe, a liminal space, allowed the Toymaker in - breaking this superstition at the boundary of land and sea, another liminal space, he vanished from time like he'd been snipped out of it, but leaving the memories people had of him. Without him in existence the Tardis became inert, hence why her key no longer worked. The new Doctor-less timeline course corrected, sending Ruby back at the moment of death to become her own harbinger, and allowing Ruby to fulfil the Doctor's role in stopping ap Gwilliam - another occasion where history is capable of being changed by a time traveller, something Doctor Who normally frowns on. But the loop wasn't complete until Ruby died of old age, at which point she was allowed to arrive beforehand to prevent the Doctor from breaking the circle, restoring the original timeline where the Doctor had been the one to stop ap Gwilliam. So what if the mysterious figure that left Ruby at the church was also Ruby, just like this crone figure? What if this has always been a different timeline, one broken off from the true timeline - hence why all these changes in history are possible, why there's random impossible things happening like the snow and the song in Ruby's head? Maybe even the bi-generation?
My take on the timelines - I think when The Doctor initially talks about Roger being the most dangerous PM, it must be something that The Doctor is aware of from future history and something which he himself is destined to intervene in at some point in his own future. But when The Doctor gets zapped out of the world, it's up to Ruby to stop Roger in the new timeline. Ruby then goes back as the old woman and stops The Doctor from ever treading on the circle. That removes the Ruby-stops-Roger timeline and Old Ruby from needing to exist. We're now in a mended timeline and one day The Doctor will stop Roger.
@@TheRagzzz and it was written that way because he wasn't available for filming, due to his filming commitments on the final season of Sex Education. Sheesh
@@ChrisGullick Oh look at who doesn't know how TV shows are written in the UK. The script was in place way before that. That don't write as they go like US series do with writing teams.
Her future self probably showed people a vision of a nuclear Armageddon future if Ruby doesn’t stay in this path isolated. That would scare people even UNIT and her own mother from interacting with her in order to prevent an apocalyptic future.
It’s about rejection: The tardis locks her out, doctor goes, mother locks her out etc. it’s penance for disturbing the web. Only when she uses the spell for good is she released from the curse. Hence the lady gets closer, facing away from her, ready to complete the bootstrap loop
Pretty sure freeing the spirit of Mad Jack put him into young ap William, and recreated Mad Jack in this era. As for Ruby's 3 visits - she really has done 3, even though the life she lived without the Doctor is likely on a different timeline now as she prevents Mad Jack's plan. But she really did experience it, even if it doesn't take part in the timeline she ends up in with the Doctor at the end. And you weren't the only one - watched too much Doctor Who (and sci fi in general) to assume it was anyone other than Ruby as the old woman...
I liked the episode, definitely still have questions but that’s one of the things I like about Who the most - when I have questions or theories. It’s great when they pan out and you get some answers later but that doesn’t always happen…as we know.
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It’s strongly believed that the guy who becomes PM of the UK SA the dark haired woman who Ruby apologized too. Her whole behavior and demeanor from before their meeting for the first time and then afterwards with how she completely changed towards him including how she dresses is how victims of SA behave. A lot of us survivors picked this up either during the episode as it aired or have seen it since!
The hiker was Susan Twist. She's been in every episode this season as a different character. Last week she was face on the Ambulances. Before that the tea lady in The Devil's Chord.
She was also in the specials
@@livingcoffee_editsyep she was the old woman talking to Isaac Newton and a girl in a pub in Church on Ruby Road
Except this time Ruby interacted with her and realized she had seen her before. Still wondering what it's leading to, since they've done the older Ruby saves the day in this episode. So, that's interesting, eh?
There's always a Twist in the end
@@livingcoffee_editsWhat, the 80s ska band?😂
What really made me emotional was Ruby's line "Don't worry, everyone has abandoned me, my whole life. But I haven't been alone for 65 years". I'd like to think that not only was she talking about the 73 yard woman, but also of the memory of her friend, the Doctor.
Nice thought but she definitely only meant the woman
I definitely cried
There’s a theory, when the old Ruby said “everyone has abandoned me…” thing, it’s actually kind of curse to herself and make everyone who get close to “the old woman” ran away from “the young Ruby”. She said it, it comes true. Like the salt thing 14th invented accidentally when he was joking at the edge of Universe.
The old woman is ruby
It reminds me of boom with the child saying her father wasn't gone, just dead. Now that I think about it, haven't most of this season had little lines like that?
Here my theory. This is Timeline A. In this Timeline The malevolent spirit called Mad Jack was trapped in the fairy circle. We have seen this before with The Toymaker is trapped in a box and bound in salt. When The Doctor broke the fairy circle he released Mad Jack who first erased The Doctor from the timeline (Remove your most dangerous adversary first) took over Ap William and groomed him to lead the world to global annihilation.
But the creator of the fairy ring had placed a fail safe. The herald that would be used to stop Ap William achieving his aim, using Ruby as that herald as we know she is some kind of meta human. Then when Ruby is old, she becomes the herald and the loop starts again. For all we know this has happened a million times
This time she is able to influence young Ruby, to stop The Doctor from stepping on the fairy ring, Mad Jack, is never released, the herald is never created, the loop breaks and now we are in Timeline B.
I could be a million mile off but this is why I love this episode. There is no wrong explanation, but I can see that a lot of people will hate it as the solution was not bottle fed to them and it's open to interpretation.
That is an amazing theory! I would’ve liked an explanation in the episode but I also liked the mystery.
This makes sense . Thank you
I posted my theory...but I love this too
But, if Ruby was the one to stop Roger ap Gwilliam, what happens in the restored timeline where she doesn't? I could accept that maybe stepping on the shrine was the thing that made him become Prime Minister in the first place (releasing "Mad Jack"), but then, the Doctor was talking about him almost causing Nuclear war BEFORE ever stepping on the shrine, and repeated his anecdote about him in the end even after Ruby "fixed" the timeline. Is it just because he's the Doctor and could somehow sense the aborted timeline? If so, why would he make fun of Ruby for seeing the woman? (which was odd, not only because he's seen much weirder stuff over the years, but also because, if he could sense the aborted timeline, why wouldn't he believe her?).. Or does Gwilliam rise to power regardless and the difference is he's stopped some other way (which would mean, Ruby really had no point in anything she did this episode, cause she actually didn't need to do anything about it)?
I honestly did feel like it was a pretty clunky script, at least resolution-wise. Unlike the well-thought out writing of episodes like Turn Left, we never got any explanation of how older-Ruby went back in time to become The Woman in the first place, how she lived for so long or how and why she was able to teleport/keep exactly 73 yards away. We have no explanation of why the TARDIS wouldn't let her back in, or what caused the Doctor to disappear in the first place. Also, what could she possibly say to cause so many people to run away from her? I can MAYBE buy UNIT stepping back once they realise she's older Ruby, cause they don't want to mess with the timeline.. But, what made her own Mum run and turn on her? How did she possibly cause Gwilliam to quit, or get perfect strangers to run away screaming? If it wasn't supposed to be her, or was some sort of hex empowering her, then yeah, I'm sorry but I did feel like that should have been better explained. We get a sort-of explanation about it in the start with the people in the pub, but then even that gets immediately thrown out the window when we realise they're just teasing Ruby and don't actually mean what they're saying. It's not that I need everything "bottle-fed" to me, but I honestly think keeping The Woman a mystery would have worked MUCH better without the half-baked twist of her being older Ruby the entire time. Either that, or they should have better explained how the twist actually worked, cause I'm sorry but I can't see a reasonable explanation that makes sense.
@@micron000 The answer to the question of why the doctor knows about the prime minister, from what I’ve seen other people say: mad jack had planned to use the prime minister to cause nuclear war but he was stopped and bound to that circle by something or a group before he could initiate a war, and so the story of the prime minister is present in the regular time line, hence why the doctor knows him. When the doctor steps on the circle, mad jack is unleashed to finish what he started, but Ruby stops him once again and restores the circle.
When Old Ruby said “light” to turn on the lights, a flash of lightning happened when I was watching it last night.
@@paulonius42why are you being so rude?
@@jumbojaba1235 Thank you for calling me out. I sometimes think I'm being silly but I was totally being an ass, and you're right. I deleted it.
That's crazy lol
@@paulonius42 now i want to know what you said
@johnjames4834 I didn't say anything horrible, just pointlessly dismissive. I basically said, "So what?" But a bit more snidely. Irl, tone of voice might have changed it, but on here I was just rude.
I was so incredibly relieved by the sight of Kate and Unit, her voice just making me feel wonderfully warm.
Then when even she walked away with the cold glare, it was such a slap in the face.
This episode had so many amazing moments. I'm so happy RTD is back.
RTD wrote Kate wonderfully I think
Yes! Omg like not having the doctor there to save the day made even the audience feel hopeless and desperate, then I see Kate and I’m like “oh yay the day is saved” and she leaves. I mean my heart literally sank. That was some incredible writing. I felt all of that as if I was experiencing it myself. And Millie Gibson is such an incredible actress like the pain and emotion on her face was palpable. That scene was really well done.
yes!!! I felt so relieved when she showed up, literally said out loud, "yes! kate! ok, we're ok!!" and then when all units went in at once I said, "no!! not all at once!!" and then I was so dejected, I felt like I had no idea how we could possibly figure this out without her
Look, i know it's a confusing episode but i kinda love that we're not given all the answers.
It is nice to have a Doctor Who episode to chew on for a change. You certainly didn't get this with the previous showrunner.
I don't see how people are finding it confusing
@@livingcoffee_editsGreat, then you can explain it simply and clearly for everybody. Go ahead.
@@livingcoffee_editsthe episode was intentionally made to not make sense and give answers that’s why it’s divisive so people either like it or or dont
@@paulonius42 The Doctor broke the circle and therefore punished, Ruby read from it and had another punishment, Ruby was forced to constantly live with her older self following her, at the end of her life she goes back to the start to follow herself but this time she was able to stop The Doctor from breaking the circle
Anyone with an irl magic background will recognize a pocket spell.{said with sarcasm} Explanation: The magic at work here was to change reality to trap bad things.
Because Ruby had just heard about Roger ap Gwyllium she then added that information to the spell which then in that moment completed as she read the scroll with the name Mad Jack on it.
This is why the Doctor's voice fades out while she is reading it as in that moment our perspective is shifting to the new timeline that is being encapsulated in the Pocket Spell.
Once the "energy of her lifetime" is done powering the spell, Ruby lives out her whole life up to the moment the end of her life seals the spell.
The reason everyone runs away like they do: They're being faced with their mortality just like Ruby once at the end in the hospital room. All of this is happening in the Pocket of Time trapped in the Spell.
What we get at the end of the show is the altered timeline minus the missing element now trapped in the spell: Mad Jack.
TL;DR = The whole episode was a Pocket-of-Time spell being weaved and powered by Rubies lifeforce.
I can get behind this slightly but I shouldn’t have to have a background in occult/folklore to understand what’s going on they gave little to no explanation, one line of dialogue to hint at that would’ve been all that’s needed
@@SirZazz3040 "I shouldn't have to learn anything outside the show in real life, I want the show to spoon feed me all information so I don't have to take the time to think or find out."
@@SirZazz3040Can it not be left mysterious and up to your own interpretation?
@@Jimmy_Jones no.
@@grump9001 yea nigga I have a busy ass life I don’t always have the time have to research obscure shit.
This episode creeped me a lot tbh, I think those episodes in which you see the companion getting older always feel disturbing. Once she hit 30, I knew it was such an episode and we wouldn't see the doctor until the end.
It was a great episode.
Also Ruby validing the susan twist thing means there's something going on and theories about all being part of a story (maybe a character like the toymaker but he/she made a doctor who season? That would explain all those 4th wall break. To make this plot twist work I think ruby's mom should be this character)
Is that why RTD is calling this "Season One" ..? 🤔
@@grump9001 could be, yeah some meta thing with even the title and the fact that it's a new era could be all part of this villain plan. Would be dope as that would go further than basic 4th wall break with the character looking at us. Maybe we're just overthinking tho 😅
Same it was so creepy. And I totally didn't like that there was no Doctor in almost whole episode. And this jump at the end to the beggining like the present was so confusing. Because it seems to be a jump to past because it was past for old Ruby but for us it was the present
As the Maestro said, this creature (Ruby) is very wrong. I think she doesn't live in a linear way. Her story has been so full of mysteries.
Thank you! People shouldn’t forget at all Ruby is not a normal human or maybe she is not human at all! She could have incredible power over time or space but she doesn’t know it she has yet to discover the truth
Is she her own "mother"? Did she drop baby herself off at that church? We will get answers eventually because the penultimate episode of the season is titled "The Legend of Ruby Sunday".
And all her episodes have been fairy tale/story book adjacent in tone.
The lady in the pub with glasses and the red hat is played by the great Sian Phillips. She's also the original Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother in David Lynch's Dune, so if she's fortelling doom and witchcraft it's best to take notice.
oh my god, I knew she looked familiar!
She also played Livia, the wife of Augustus Caesar in I Claudius. Tony Soprano's mother was named Livia after her.
Ah yes great actress
Mad Jack is only released when the Doctor steps on the circle. So by the end when he doesn't step on the circle Mad Jack doesn't get released. A bit of a time loop but Ruby released how to stop it thus breaking the time loop and making sure she got her younger self to stop the Doctor from standing in the circle. The whole of the episode exists on a branch timeline hinted at by Kate and at the end of the episode she is returned to her proper timeline. I think that makes sense.
Also another thing about what Kate says to her. I think the Tardis' perception filter leaks into the broken circle. Because the woman is 73 yards away the people who talk to Ruby first realise that the old woman is Ruby which makes them run away not wanting to talk to her again, so not necessarily what the woman says to the people because before they run back they turn back to look at Ruby.
- But Hey, That's Just A Theory -
- A Film Theory -
i liked this theory until i thought about kate. she's obviously quite experienced so something as simple as realizing the old woman is also ruby shouldnt have her react that way imo
regardless a fantastic episode. my heart burns to know the answers to this mystery but as someone who's favorite episode is Midnight i cant complain about it too much haha
@@juanrivera4440 Kate didn’t walk up to the woman though. She only had a line of communication over the comms. Kate is the only acceptation to that theory though. I have no idea
I thought the same thing, but that really doesn't hold up sadly. if Ruby was the one to stop Roger ap Gwilliam, what happens in the restored timeline where she doesn't? I could accept that maybe stepping on the shrine was the thing that made him become Prime Minister in the first place (releasing "Mad Jack"), but then, the Doctor was talking about him almost causing Nuclear war BEFORE ever stepping on the shrine, and repeated his anecdote about him in the end even after Ruby "fixed" the timeline.
Is it just because he's the Doctor and could somehow sense the aborted timeline? If so, why would he make fun of Ruby for seeing the woman? Which was odd, not only because he's seen much weirder stuff over the years, but also because, if he could sense the aborted timeline, why wouldn't he believe her?) Or, does Gwilliam rise to power regardless and the difference is he's stopped some other way (which would mean, Ruby really had no point in anything she did during this episode, cause she actually didn't need to do anything about him)?
@@micron000 In the fixed timeline at the end the Doctor doesn’t mention the nuclear stuff. The prime minster was just a bad person and terrifying but not bent on nuclear war. The theory is Mad Jack is released and becomes part of him and drives monstrous tendencies. We won’t know for sure because RTD wanted this one to be something to chew on and think about rather than be given the answers.
@@micron000 I have no idea, but I think it was written to be intended to be open ended and up to interpretation. Russell was a bit ambiguous in the corresponding Unleashed episode.
Susan Twist has a much larger role to play though since she’s been in every episode
My favorite thing about this episode is that we ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have all the answers. I would have not liked this AS MUCH if everything was explained.
I think the dont step is relevant. First the stepping on a butterfly changed time, devils chord hmmm lol, step on a mine last week, step in the circle changed timeline again...just a thought
Step on the butterfly, step on a land mine step in the circle and the maestro was more or less an accident. It’s interesting symbolism never thought about it until now
Hmm... And The Doctor told the Not-Things that they couldn't step forward until they counted every grain of salt he'd sprinkled.
And when Ruby is on the pitch at the stadium... "DO NOT STEP ON THE GRASS!"
I think that was important too I immediately thought about when she stepped on a butterfly and changed the course of history. But I think SHE changed it. Because she manifested it. It was weird, even the doctor looked really suspicious he was looking around like did that really just happen?
@@Happymama12
This season has had a lot of fairy tale/story book feeling moments, all around Ruby.
Maybe she *does* make things magical around her, one way or another, without her knowledge or control.
Maybe she is a side effect to the spilt salt at the end of the universe, like the toymaker.
The answer: this is a turning point in the timeline. The doctor says the same line in the beginning and end of the episode. Regarding the dangerous prime Minister. Because technically it's true. A man named Jack is released, elected, and brings the world to the brink of nuclear war. This is a fact. Because once upon a time, a person stepped on a circle. But this time, Old Ruby distracts Young Ruby. And the circle is never broken. Now, even though we don't see it.....the Doctor, at this exact moment, no longer has knowledge of a 2046 nuclear war. It never happened. His knowledge would have disappeared seconds later when the time line changes. And he'll never know. This history never happened. It's very Star Trek or Stargate when you realize that the cast of characters you are following for an episode is the 2nd iteration. The 2nd loop.
yeah exactly this.
Turn Left, Utopia, Last Of The Time lords.
There will be something special about Ruby just like Clara.
Kate did mention "this timeline" and Mrs Flood's door is Tardis blue.
Welsh here, this episode was brillient!
It was lush!😊
Da iawn
you still owe me for that bet
I have watched this episode three times I’ve come to the conclusion that this episode ties together many of the elements that we’ve seen so far this season, the ropes and knots from the goblins, the butterfly effect of how one small misstep can change everything, the concept of changing memories which we saw on space babies when the doctor memory of baby Ruby being left on the church was changed slightly. I have a feeling this episode is going to make a lot of sense when we’ve seen all of the episodes of the season kind of like how silence of the library with very confusing until we learned exactly who river song was then it made perfect sense.
It could have hints of the future episodes? Oh I’m so thrilled with this season it’s very very cohesive in a unique way.
And this might not even be anything but do you remember in wild blue yonder when the doctor wonders where the tardis goes when it flies off at random? And he says maybe it goes to some outcrop by the sea and people worship it. And here it is, on an outcrop by the sea with people leaving flowers and notes next to it.
The hiker is Susan Twist who's been in every episode so far this season.
Ruby even recognizes her, sort of.
🎵"There's always a Twist at the end."🎵
She probably will be.😊
My take on the timey wimey stuff. At first in the 'broken circle' timeline the Doctor mentions Roger Ap Gwilliam (Mad Jack) as a bad Prime Minister, because he has knowledge of how the future plays out in that timeline.Then the circle is broken, Ruby reads the notes and Mad Jack is released, insuring that future comes to pass. When Old Ruby (73 yards woman) circles back around in the timeline to 2024 she prevents the Doctor from breaking the circle, making sure Mad Jack was never released/born creating a new (Unbroken Circle) timeline. Which is why the old lady disappears. The Doctor mentions Roger Ap Gwilliam but this one was never possessed by Mad Jack.
Aha so this prime minister was possesed
This one was puzzling, and vague, and esoteric, and I *loved* it.
the pub scene felt like rtd playing a prank. all the promotion for this episode was centered around the pub, not the political
I thought it was a good homage for “Midnight” it was like the reverse. People where shouting at her and there was knocking a at the door. In small setting spray fed by darkened. It was super creepy. In the end the politics wasn’t the most important thing just a goal that Ruby set her self for
@@kay-jay1581it was quite literally just a plot device
The lady at the bar, Enid Meadows, is played by Dame Jane Elizabeth Ailwên Phillips, known professionally as Siân Phillips, who also played the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam in Dune (1984).
Thank you for this. Damn, I love beautiful trivias.
Theory: Ruby is the harbinger of all bad things and The Doctor is trying to fix her.
Oh wow, I love that idea.
We already had that similar thing
Because the circle wasn't broken, the stuff with the Prime Minister won't happen. They didnt really explain why, it's just how it is. The only real question left is WHY did they freak out so bad when they encountered her, and what's with the hand gestures? It's probably connected to Ruby's mystery.
Yeah I feel like Mad Jack was goin to be stopped regardless Ruby was involved or not. The Doctor creaky said “he was the worse prime minister almost caused a nuclear war” meaning Mad Jack didn’t
But he knew about him before steeping into the circle
But why did people who talked to old ruby start running away scared
@@mohj6042 I'm hoping it's connected to her origin story
The episode this most reminds me of is "Turn Left" from series 4.
It’s like a combination of that and also midnight (but slightly less creepy more hopeful)
What are your theories about the ending peeps?!
Timey wimey wibbly wobbly
Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey*
TLDR: time is all happening all at once all the time. Also wall of text but my mind went wild.
I'm intrigued by the supernatural aspect of this. My theory is that when they originally step on the thing it creates a branching timeline where the doc gets kidnapped by faeries. As far as the mechanics of the time travel would go. First id definitely say Ruby's powers or whatever are messing with things (my theory is like memory stuff.) I would say mad jack was trapped in the circle in some way. The timeline thing is timey wimey because while the doctor hasn't been to Wales with Ruby to release him 'yet' some of his future knowledge is based on stuff he hasn't done yet like this. So he has been released at the same time he hasn't been yet. Remember time is not linier. When Ruby prevented her younger self and the doctor from releasing him it retroactively erases him from the timeline but he still exists in the future of the past from before this point, I think. The end kinda got away from there but that's what I've drawn from it all. Very interested to see what is up with Ruby tho.
Keep in mind that in the beginning, the doctor says he ALMOST brought the world to the brink of nuclear war.
After they break the circle it seems ruby is splintered into a timeline where he would have destroyed the world.
My theory: RTD had a super effective & creepy idea that most of the episode runs with, but either couldn't figure a satisfying resolution or, and I think this might be more likely, chose not to resolve it so he can lean into wanting to make things more supernatural.
I'm just being a grumpy old man who doesn't like trying to create theories to solve things that were intentionally not intended to be solved.
Crazy episode. Definitely feels like we don't have all the pieces of the puzzle yet, though.
Yeah classic Doctor who. A new mystery surrounding Ruby. I don’t expect answer until the finale or even the next few years 😂
Here's a few of my theories:
(There's still a lot which doesn't make sense and we probably won't get the actual answer to, and that's why I really like these sort of episodes.)
- This episode once again included a folk law/superstition thanks to the salt at the edge of the universe. The cliff's being the barrier between the land and the sea, and fairy circles etc.
- The circle of string or shrine was made by future Ruby, a scroll with "I miss you", in reference to Ruby missing the Doctor, on it, and "Rest in peace Mad Jack".
- The Doctor and Ruby landing in Wales at the start was future Wales after Mad Jack's death, hence the scroll saying rest in peace Mad Jack. Once Ruby read the scrolls, she time travelled into the past back to 2024. She reaches the pub, and asks to pay with her phone and begins to explain what that is as she's unsure what time period she's in. She tells the people in the pub about the circle of string, Mad Jack, and the scrolls and they end up joking with her. At this time they're unaware of who Mad Jack is, as he's not a public figure or the prime minister yet.
- Fast forwarding to the end of the episode when the woman is in the room with Ruby, Ruby dies and turns into the woman somehow? the story starts all over again, looping as many times as possible, until Ruby spots the woman right before The Doctor breaks the circle. Ruby warns The Doctor, and the woman vanishes at last. The distraction gave time for Ruby to prevent The Doctor from stepping onto the string and breaking the circle. The woman has finally broken the loop, her job is done, and prevented the nuclear future with Mad Jack from happening.
- The woman could've been purposely deterring people away from Ruby whenever they approached her, as a way of always making sure Ruby was alone. She set the path and influenced the story in order to get Ruby to the very end where she turns into the woman, and allows this loop to happen. The loop could've happened a dozen times until Ruby finally notices her, allowing her to stop The Doctor from breaking the circle just in time.
Okay that’s my favorite theory so far! But it might be that the doctor is just sent away to a different time line? Maybe the past. So either Ruby wrote the notes and made the circle at some point in time. OR the Doctor wrote the notes and made the circle. He was just stranded with out the TARDIS
The second one totallt
I thought they land in Wales in 2024 but it makes total sense. But if it was in the future how she would come back to her home and mother looking the same
I loved the episode despite being utterly confused! Everything was done so well, and I love companion centric episodes. It checked all the boxes, minus more narrative ending exposition. I didn’t need it spelled out for me, just would have loved more to this story or even a two parter!
I think people are framing the conversation wrong. You can tell the mystery is supposed to be enigmatic, and that's exactly what it is.
4:06 “one of these day, I’m gonna get a theory right”. Made me spit my drink
I think it was just the Doctor had the knowledge of THAT future, because it was going to happen. He doesn't mention him when things get reset.
Well he had said all he did just like before. He stops when he realizes it’s spoilers because it encroaches on Ruby’s timeline. Things don’t get changed/reset until Ruby sees her older self and stops the doctor from stepping on the circle. That’s when the branch timeline is avoided and she disappears entirely because she never existed.
He does, though..
@@micron000 Oh does he? I guess I missed that part.
@@micron000 the nuclear stuff isn’t mentioned in the ending so that seems to have been changed via the circle and Mad Jack remains bound.
Honestly one of my favourite episodes in a long time. Like a cross between The Dead Zone and It Follows
😊 I completely forgot that Ruby age wise is similar to rose from series one. So of course she’s a 20-year-old kid who hasn’t gone anywhere in her life, practically, and now she’s the middle of this weird crap without the help of the doctor so she’s scared she doesn’t know what’s going on and she doesn’t know what to do.
The first televised time UNIT dealt with the supernatural was back with the 7th Doctor in a story called Battlefield...
Technically, the Daemons, but yeah they have dealt with the supernatural before.
I love that Ruby finally acknowledged Susan Twist. So cool
😊 I think from what I understand when they were shooting this episode Ncuti was shooting the last of his other show so that’s why he wasn’t there.
This was the very 1st episode Millie Gibson shot with production starting in December 2022, they were her first days on set after leaving soap opera Corronation Street.
Ncuti was unavailable due to finishing Sex Education which is also the main reason David Tennant & Catherine Tate were a large part of the 60th, Ncuti couldn't be a part of it.
@@fleason771 oh wow production wise it makes total sense why the pacing of this episode was just very strange
@@francisco_m7849 There are often "Doctor-lite" episodes in seasons usually with 2 units shooting different episodes at the same time like "Blink" in S3 or "Turn Left" in S4 but this was productions attempt to get moving without Ncuti until he was avaliable
That is why it was the best
The Doctor says "on the brink of nuclear..." not that he actually launched any nuke. So Roger will probably still be Prime Minister but he's not Mad Jack, who I am assuming is a totally separate entity that latches on to that person they're talking about when the circle is broken. And that's how Ruby gets to live to the end of her natural life (as opposed of, say, to dying in a nuclear holocaust, in which case I think Mad jack would have won?) and to be, I guess, sort of projected back into this branch of the timeline to the point where it was created.
I am so blown away with this ending but at the same time so confused about the time placement. Is it the present or the past?!
The Doctor did not say anything about Mad Jack the second time. Actually, he started to, but once Ruby stopped him from stepping on the Fairy Circle, he stopped saying it. I think that Me s it would no longer be a thing.
This is Russel T Davies at his strongest!! Absolutely love this episode, and I have a feeling it will go down as a classic! What’s crazy is all of the little details sprinkled in this episode, it reminds me a lot of what you would find in Blink! Because, if you pay attention, the doctor not only caused all of it by stepping on the Fairy Circle, but because he said or told ruby about a future event by accident, asking her what time she was from but saying the wrong date, revealing about the future prime minister and what he would do! The doctor said Spoilers after the fact, an exact reversal of what River used to say when the doctor would ask her, she would always say Spoilers but never tell the doctor exactly what will happen! But what’s interesting, is if ruby changed that future event from happening, perhaps it’s why at the end of the episode, the dialogue is different between the doctor and ruby, but does that mean a new timeline was made? Timey Wimey?? lol 🤔 But as to why everyone kept running away when they talked to future ruby, besides being there to scare the prime minister, all we get is…Ask Her? I feel like there is something else she said to them to fill them with dread!? But absolutely fantastic episode! ❤️
I don't think the fairy circle had much to do with what happened this episode, she clearly has some reality warping powers, like when she mentioned stepping on a butterfly and it happening, mentioning Star Trek and the crew had the outfits, the snow. There's something up with her that will probably be revealed, related to the magical stuff that's going on. I hope it's got something to do with the trickster, which would make a whole lot of sense considering his lore, his scrapped story plans that seem to be occurring now, and the pantheon.
Yeah the whole season has been nothing but "Myths" and almost magical gods that can bend reality. This is for sure where it is headed. The butterfly things make sense cause it doesn't fit with the rules of the universe, and doctor was kind of confused too.
Which episode was the Star Trek outfits again?
@@ameliacraiig4193 space babies
@@abbyanderson2463 Thanks.
Kate and the pub gave us all the "hows" we need, it had nothing to do with the supernatural. Russel T Davies even said so in the behind the scenes. If you must have a practical explanation, landing the TARDIS's perception filter on a fairy circle causing Ruby's perception of herself to come to life and haunt her is plenty. It's the same as the salt between universes from Wild Blue Yonder that caused everything this season, bc like Doc and the old lady in the pub both said, the clifftop is a liminal space between the land and the sea, where the rules don't apply. The episode was somehow still entirely sci-fi, just like past "meta-story" bits like The Bogeyman, and I find that impressive.
More importantly, that means we can toss that to the side, bc the only thing that actually matters is what it teaches us about the characters, like with Ruby's fear of abandonment (semperdistans. The Woman keeps everyone away from Ruby because of her own perception of herself, including the Doctor) and what one might do when you never receive the closure you expected. We got plenty of closure with the ending of the episode, people who say otherwise are trolling, the point is that during her journey, Ruby did not.
That's why Roger ap Gwilliam is such a simple character who had nothing to do with anything supernatural, and why defeating him didn't stop Ruby's situation. The important thing is that Ruby was convinced it would. That she had a purpose here. (they straight up tell us to our face TWICE that the moment is purely symbolic)
This is also why The Woman very explicitly is NOT Old Ruby, they aren't even the same actress. (check the credits or behind the scenes, Old Ruby is Amanda Walker, The Woman is Hilary Hobson) The snap back to the present is the first time Ruby actually reaches out to The Woman instead of chasing her or staying away (i also wonder if the time added up, 66.7 meters = 66.7 years? would be fun)
When it comes to potential future threads related to this, i really don't think it makes sense to expect the finale to fully spell out the message and meaning of this episode, that's not necessary at all. But I do think this helps tease a greater context for later, since it seems like they're hinting at The Oldest One being a Pantheon member that's a living story, and has powers based on that, just like Toymaker and Maestro. Given that the memory of that Christmas straight up changed itself during Space Babies, and that the unique musical cue played in that moment was also played here when The Woman finished the circle and allowed Ruby to warn her younger self through her body instead, I wouldn't be surprised if the living story is Doctor himself. It would fit with The Timeless Child and what Toymaker said as well, but that is definitely still a bit more out there. Whatever story they are in could reasonably have given Ruby her powers too. I'm reminded of how tv-static or interference is often referred to as snow, and Ruby makes it snow whenever she starts to think too much about her mysterious origins
My questions: where was the doctor?
What was she saying to terrify to the core everyone?
How was she teleporting all around Ruby to keep being in her sight and at 73 yards?
And what's actually happening on the hospital bed, does she teleport from the bed to the cliff?
I don't know where the Doctor went, but RTD said the audience should think of the worst thing one could say that would be awful enough to drive a mother away from her daughter. So I think we should also apply the same to the others who ran away too. I think the hospital scene at the end (& the heart monitor beeps) indicate the death of Ruby. Therefore, the 73 yards old lady is a ghost of sorts & is able to vanish and materialise, as apparitions are supposed to do.
I think Ruby is able to loop time, like create variations of herself, so at the end, the old woman version of her still exists and she still stopped the PM, but the Ruby we are now following is a version of her that never had to do that
Greg calling Haunging of Hill House vibes got me so excited because YES Iol bent neck lady
We need to assemble a top team to get Russell to write satisfying endings. I’m not expecting all of my questions to be answered, but Jesus, they may as well have said ‘and it was all a dream’. Good god lmao
Why can’t the Doctor remember what time Ruby is from, he’s had to ask twice, that’s not something he would forget so does Ruby have a field around her like the Tardis that gives her that seen but not retained affect, is that the camera affect we see? The hiker was that actress that keeps showing up in episodes, you have seen her John…a lot. The woman in the bar is just like the actress in the Alfred Hitchcock movie the birds, Mrs Bundy, when people in the dinner start talking about the birds attacking she’s very smart and acts as if the people around her aren’t very smart, it has to be on purpose that they did that because they are so similar. This entire episode was shot very Hitchcockian, close shots on faces, quick switches between characters, driving the drama. Watching you two guessing things and then them happening was so much fun. The fact that humans have figured out that everything you think could be real is real and have created forces to face it all is great back story, they need Torchwood back to do supernatural stories.
Ugggg I have so many questions! Where was the Doctor? What did the older Ruby say to freak people out? Who made the fairy circle? What was she signing? And who the hell is Susan Twist!?! This is her 6th appearance plus the song at the end of The Devils Cord, There's always a Twist at the end?!!! God I love this show!
This is so fucking scary and sad episode. When her mom abandond her and said she isn't her daughter I cried inside. I can't. I couldn't watch. Had to pause. Why they went that far?
BENT NECK LADY BENT NECK LADY!
I love that you called the “twist” from jump AND alluded to Mike Flannagan.
Kate said did say that "the time line had been suspended..." Ergo an open loop (close loops repeat) that runs it's course then resets into a different timeline identical to the beginning of the previous time line that diverged. Timey whimey stuff.
Am I going crazy or apparently some of the crew who worked on this banger of an episode are massive fans of Ari Aster?
Yeah some of this definitely has Beau Is Afraid vibes.
15:52 I was there during the filming of this scene! Was so surreal how it was all done!
I think Ruby is a member of the Pantheon or one of their children.
The old woman isn't ruby at first. She had longer hair and is played by a different actress. I believe she takes her place
I just noticed when she’s having that date in the bar and she leaves the guy to save the world, you can see Clara stood at the bar!!! I’m so excited to see if they bring her back as she’s in the doctors timeline
1:51 This episode starts so innocently
5:39 oh she is familuar thats susan twist whos apeared in every episode so far,
woman in the bar who asks ruby to play a song in chirch, one of the crew in space babys, the face of the ambulance in boom and now the hiker its a ongoing mystery as to why
One of these days, an American will come along who can actually do an English accent without sounding like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins.
The thing some people don't seem tp understand (and I didn't get it on first viewing) is that Ruby doesn't need to save the world from Mad Jack/Rodger ap Gwilliam if Ruby and The Doctor never release him/it fromthe faury circle in the first place. Excellent episode!
I also called that it was her from start, like Amy and Rory/just Amy in the drill episodes where they meet the Homo Reptilius.
I did start to doubt it as the episode went on, but I felt very validated by the end. The Toy Maker, The Maestro, The One Who Waits all seem to very supernatural and fae-like, like tricksters. I think something that a lot of people don't realize about Faeiry Circles in folklore is that if you step into one, it's essentially a way yo abduct you into the fae realm. I think that's what happened to the Doc. He got abducted into some weird extra dimensional fae space when he broke the circle and released Mad Jack, and the curse of sorts that Ruby had of herself, allowed her to go back and stop him from being abducted in that timeline.
I think Russell T Davis was more inspired by British 1970s Folk Horror than M.Night Shyamalan, certainly in the first third. It really reminded me of a 2022 film called Enys Men.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but at the very beginning the Doctor referenced ‘The War Between the Land and the Sea’ - which has already been confirmed as a spin off series of specials featuring UNIT, and has been registered as a production title by Bad Wolf.
It took me a minute to understand what was happening after they explained it, but it really ended up being pretty dang cool
32:07 When the Doctor mentions the future PM he’s already on a trajectory to step on the fairy circle. So if breaking the circle made it possible for him to become PM then traveling back to prevent the circle from being disturbed would also prevent him from rising to power.
The lady hillwalker is actress Susan Twist and so far in Doctot Who she has played; Wild Blue Yonder - Mrs Merridew
The Church on Ruby Road - an unnamed woman
Space Babies - Gina Scalzi
The Devil's Chord - tea lady
Boom - Villengard Ambulance AI
73 Yards - hiker
If she’s the old version of her and managed to somehow rewind time to change it; surely she must have some powers to change time
The locals in the Pub are actually giving you the story. Mad Jack was released when the Doctor stepped on the circle, he was creating the PM he's talking about. He released the entity/spirit/fairy that basically becomes a changling, taking the place of Roger AP GWilliam who then grows up to be the PM and destroy the world through Nuclear war. A bit like The Omen storyline.
By preventing the breaking of the circle, she finally prevented that timeline and the rise of the evil entity Mad Jack. That's how I see it.
My belief is that the doctor knows the current timeline when he said that about mad jack which was the timeline where they're going to step on the circle and her "Punishment" for reading the notes and releasing jack, was to live a life alone essentially, but then at the end, she was allowed to go back and stop him from escaping, maybe as a reward for stopping him, or maybe just so that going back would stop him from getting free but she had to live her punishment first... but that's why the doctor didn't say it again about jack because he sensed the new timeline he was in after she lived the life and came back.
Just putting my own theory out: Russel T Davies claimed that with this season of Who, we'd be seeing more god-like entities, as we've seen with the Toymaker and Maestro. BUT... this episode struck me as eerily similar to the episode Turn Left, where Donna lives a whole other life due to the Time Beetle that attaches itself to her. That Beetle was part of the Trickster's Brigade. What if the fairy circle is part of the Trickster's Brigade, and The Trickster is also the One Who Waits? Probably won't happen, but it would be an interesting thought.
This episode reminds me of mix of Midnight (4x10) and It Takes You Away (11x9).... these creepy mysteries primarily taking place in the middle of nowhere that you have to work out... if you can. There are still answers we didn't get - like in Midnight.
What happened to The Doctor?
Why was Ruby stuck in this loop?
Why did everyone who talked to her future self run away in terror?
It's kinda cool that we DIDN'T get those answers. Because we usually do, we usually get all the answers. I think it's interesting to have episodes like this that keep some answers to itself.
Lovely to see Siân Phillips in this episode. 91 years old and still an amazing actress.
How would you react if someone was pointed out as the person that caused a nuclear war? I bet THAT was what they were told. Changing the timeline back keeps Ruby from weaponizing herself and messing over Mad Jack's nuke plans...
Hi the opening scene he Didnt regenerate there The 13th Regenerated in Durdle Dor not in Wales this episode is set in Wales
It has been ages since I've been left thinking about an episode of Doctor Who for so long after the episode.
The accent at the beginning low key sounds like a Birmingham accent 😂😂😂
The accents during the shoutout stopped me in my tracks.
Tara must be so proud 😂
I think the reason the doctor knew about mad jack, is because them breaking the circle is what was MEANT to happen, but ruby somehow changed the timeline so they don't break it.
Its sorta the Bootstrap Paradox.
Was she always the woman? Did the events happen because they stepped on the Circle? or was it always going to happen regardless? Since its a "Fairy Circle" we have to assume its a sorta magic that allowed her to take on an existence which later on would stop MadJack from his potential Nuclear War.
What's likely is that something or someone scared MadJack in the future, Someone who wasn't Ruby. But because Ruby and the Doctor stumbled upon the Circle and broke it, the spell took Ruby and made her part of the events in order to keep the timeline in tact and to stop MadJack. Ruby became the very existence that originally scared/stopped MadJack in the future.
We don't know for sure the events, but to summarize this is the likely scenario
- The Legend/Prophecy of MadJack is born, origin unknown. Someone forms the Fairy Circle, in order to stop him.
- Something/Someone stops him in the future, something to do with the spell made by the Fairy Circle
- The Doctor and Ruby (who are logically character traveling between Times, so they shouldn't even be there) come upon the Circle, The Doctor accidently breaks the circle and is banished into non-existence.
- Ruby is chosen by the spell to Re-complete the task of stopping MadJack. She succeeds.
- She becomes the entity of the Spell, allowing for time to be "Rewritten". Hence we return to the moment they stumbled upon the Circle. The entity warns Ruby not to break the Circle. And Ruby listens, saving herself and the Doctor
- The entity of the spell stops MadJack (perhaps Ruby, perhaps not)
In short, its either the Bootstrap Paradox or its magic...
This episode was also giving heavy Trickster vibes from Sarah Jane adventures. He tries to influence people in subtle ways to unleash chaos and Armageddon. When the Doctor broke the circle he accidentally unleashed one of the Trickster’s minions or heralds or something to influence the politician to unleash nuclear Armageddon. Something special about Ruby allowed her older self to echo backward through time to put her younger self on the path to stop him. This involved needing to isolate her from the Doctor, her family and even UNIT because her connections would’ve interfered. Once she completed the time loop she was able to go back and stop the Doctor from breaking the circle in the first place thus preventing all this from happening.
I keep thinking about the goblins being attracted to Ruby as she was surrounded by "bad luck."
If Ruby is somehow connected to The Trickster, she may have herself manifested these goblins without even realising.
As a Brit I dunno if feel honoured or offended by your intro lol!!! This was a good ep loving that I’m excited about who again, great reaction as always 💙💙
Making fun of themselves for doing awful British accents.
Yeah and then again and the end! Greg is being awfully cavalier knowing how much he is liked that he can do such a minor hate crime and get away with it lol (cos it is the internet I must explain I'm joking)
@@marshsundeen ....And making fun of stereotypes of Americans, (how the rest of the world sees _them)_ 😁; that is being ignorant/having narrowminded perceptions of other cultures & countries, being massively self-absorbed & egocentric enough *_not_* to realise that American-English is the bastardisation of English, so where it originates from would generally not be seen as the incorrect version. LOL
I think the Doctor knew about the Prime Minister outside of the timeline for the same reason he knew that Ruby's not supposed to be a lizard person and that mavity used to be called gravity. He's a complex event in time and space, so his awareness has a wider scope than his immediate position in spacetime.
i took it almost as like a metaphor for the doctors' companions leaving everything behind. IF the doctor wasn't around, Ruby, as his companion, would have been able to save the world without him. the companions are such an integral part of the doctor teaching his philosophy of peace and trying to avoid war, so i think the woman convincing all of ruby's contacts to abandon her was proving that even if you have no one, You yourself can do so much and you're not alone.
It’s not like we haven’t seen alternate timelines. Amy was always in one. She killed Madam Cary…but didn’t….but still remembered it. Donna was in a timeline in “Turn Left.” The doctor said that was a parallel universe that interacted with Rose’s. I think that a lot of this will be explained more as the season goes on. Who made the circle and why….and what was old Ruby actually saying to make everyone run?
I wonder why they focused in on Kate's red nails...
Good catch!
I remember the master, who was trapped in the Toymaker’s tooth was picked up by a hand with red nails. Maybe Kate took the master to experiment on it…?
@@eh708aaaaah i keep forgetting that detail. But if it’s Kate pulling out the master from some were point in the future. How does she grabbed the tooth from the tower! It was as if someone took it out of thing air 🤔
Did you ever react to the german series Dark? I feel like you would really like it.
Here’s my theory for the episode and what I think is happening!!!
I think when they went up to the old ruby the old ruby’s face turned young and that scared everyone away I think this worked especially with rubys mum with tuff love I think older ruby told her mum she needs to run away and never see her again to keep her safe this would explain why her mum pushes ruby away by saying something so opposite to who her mum is by saying she’s not her real mum this is enough for ruby to feel abandoned and stay away from her mum allowing the timeline to remain the reason mad jack and all the others ran away is because they also saw old ruby’s face turn younge I think old ruby can also send information through peoples minds because she interacted with them when she was younger so older ruby told unit that she needed everyone to leave her younger self so she can stop mad jack who will cause world war 3 and fix the timeline. in the end ruby dies and her spirit goes back in her younger self, preventing the doctor to step changing the timeline back to normal!!!
Ever since 13 regenerated into 14, time has become that much more breakable. There's no longer any mention of 'fixed points in time', and there are multiple examples of history randomly changing without the Doctor seeming to be able to prevent it - 'mavity', the Toymaker introducing the giggle into television, the goblins killing Ruby as a baby and changing the future, Maestro transforming the 20th century by destroying music, Ruby killing the butterfly and temporarily changing human evolution. Some of it is being played for laughs, some of it is significant, but the sheer volume of changes in history over only a few episodes of the show is unprecedented in the show's history.
The Doctor had previously stopped Roger ap Gwilliam, but when he stepped over and broke the fairy circle - very much like the use of the salt superstition at the edge of the universe, a liminal space, allowed the Toymaker in - breaking this superstition at the boundary of land and sea, another liminal space, he vanished from time like he'd been snipped out of it, but leaving the memories people had of him. Without him in existence the Tardis became inert, hence why her key no longer worked. The new Doctor-less timeline course corrected, sending Ruby back at the moment of death to become her own harbinger, and allowing Ruby to fulfil the Doctor's role in stopping ap Gwilliam - another occasion where history is capable of being changed by a time traveller, something Doctor Who normally frowns on. But the loop wasn't complete until Ruby died of old age, at which point she was allowed to arrive beforehand to prevent the Doctor from breaking the circle, restoring the original timeline where the Doctor had been the one to stop ap Gwilliam.
So what if the mysterious figure that left Ruby at the church was also Ruby, just like this crone figure? What if this has always been a different timeline, one broken off from the true timeline - hence why all these changes in history are possible, why there's
random impossible things happening like the snow and the song in Ruby's head? Maybe even the bi-generation?
My take on the timelines - I think when The Doctor initially talks about Roger being the most dangerous PM, it must be something that The Doctor is aware of from future history and something which he himself is destined to intervene in at some point in his own future. But when The Doctor gets zapped out of the world, it's up to Ruby to stop Roger in the new timeline. Ruby then goes back as the old woman and stops The Doctor from ever treading on the circle. That removes the Ruby-stops-Roger timeline and Old Ruby from needing to exist. We're now in a mended timeline and one day The Doctor will stop Roger.
Hey guys. This reminds me me of the Dead Zone, where something similar happens. Where did the Doctor go?
Ncuti was still filming Sex Education when this episode was shot. That's why he's not really in this episode
He wasn't in it much because that was how it was written. Sheesh.
@@TheRagzzz and it was written that way because he wasn't available for filming, due to his filming commitments on the final season of Sex Education. Sheesh
@@ChrisGullick Oh look at who doesn't know how TV shows are written in the UK. The script was in place way before that. That don't write as they go like US series do with writing teams.
@@TheRagzzz Yet I'm still right and you're just making a bigger fool out of yourself
This back and forth is great, keep going
Her future self probably showed people a vision of a nuclear Armageddon future if Ruby doesn’t stay in this path isolated. That would scare people even UNIT and her own mother from interacting with her in order to prevent an apocalyptic future.
It’s about rejection: The tardis locks her out, doctor goes, mother locks her out etc. it’s penance for disturbing the web. Only when she uses the spell for good is she released from the curse. Hence the lady gets closer, facing away from her, ready to complete the bootstrap loop
Only when she uses the spell for good is she released from the curse? Except she had to wait another 40 years to die.
Pretty sure freeing the spirit of Mad Jack put him into young ap William, and recreated Mad Jack in this era. As for Ruby's 3 visits - she really has done 3, even though the life she lived without the Doctor is likely on a different timeline now as she prevents Mad Jack's plan. But she really did experience it, even if it doesn't take part in the timeline she ends up in with the Doctor at the end. And you weren't the only one - watched too much Doctor Who (and sci fi in general) to assume it was anyone other than Ruby as the old woman...
I liked the episode, definitely still have questions but that’s one of the things I like about Who the most - when I have questions or theories. It’s great when they pan out and you get some answers later but that doesn’t always happen…as we know.
This is a great episode.
Do not touch the grass is also a perfect line
The most dangerous Prime Minister in history? Okay, if The Doctor thinks he's worse then The Master, Ruby REALLY did the timeline a solid.
Perhaps the best Doctor Who episode in about 15 years. And thank the lord I have whiskey to inhale to solve any allergies i might have.