A bit of a correction here but this train wasn't actually using 46,000 horsepower. Only the first three units on the head end were online. The CN SD75I #5679 was offline as was the UP SD70M #3881 trailing it. They were simply DIT and not part of the active consist. Furthermore the lead MRL SD70ACe #4301 was online but isolated. The remaining four SD70ACe's were however online and cut in adding their power to the consist as was the BNSF DPU on the rear. MRL commonly does this where they don't break up 4+ unit helper sets but rather on trains that don't require all 4+ units they will simply isolate one or more units to save fuel and maintenance costs. Technically this train was only actually using 33,400 horsepower (not subtracting altitude losses) not 46,000. I've worked for UP for a bit over 18 years now (scary as that is to think about) and it's not uncommon for us to do the same thing ferrying units along either for later us or having them DIT for one reason or another.
that is a lot of power for moving trains. NS ran a dedicated coal train that had 7 diesel units, 4 lead, 3 radio units in the middle. the units brought 112 cars of coal down a 6% grade in Saluda, NC. full dynamic braking was used on the grade. The wgt was usually 11.000 to 12,000 tons. I enjoyed working on that train. there is a video on youtube about the train.
Nice to see a "Draper Taper" 60F in the mix. I always thought those were cool looking. And everytime I see that much power going over that bridge, I always imagine all of the torque the engines are applying to the rails just pulling the whole dang thing over.
Very nice video. It isn't only the grade on the line that causes problems but also the curves. Before you get to the trestle you have already gone thru more than 360° of curves. By the time you get to Blossburg you have gone thru another 360°. It really is something to see from a train.
Wow!! Fantastic video!! Gorgeous scenery, love the opening shot of climbing the grade and the bridge shot great!! Nice angle, also liked how you catured the prime mover sounds. Looked fwd to watching more like this. WCR
Wow, have watched trains in and out of Helena, but never had time to go watch them crawl up this 'hill!' Thanks! Seems like a bit of overkill on the power, but fun watching. Will have to try to make time to go up there in April after the Railfair weekend!
@stlgevo51 thanks, and sorry for the late reply. Just heard that using 5ACe's as a helper set is no more. From now on 4 will be all, unless the experts get it wrong!
@TheMadNorsky Thanks Norsky. The answer is: in Winter, no, in Summer, maybe. In Winter Austin Road is blocked just past the Skyline trestle. Its about 7.5 miles on the rails from Austin to Blossburg. That takes the train about 30 minutes on average. In Summer it might be do-able to take Austin Road all the way over and catch the train at Blossburg. But in Winter it would mean 15 miles back to Helena, maybe 30 miles on Hwy 12 west, and 6 miles up Mullan Pass (Dirt) Road . Going back in Summer !!
Scott, I had a question, but you answered it in one of the replies (RE: regarding how many engines at the front of the train, or powered axles, are allowed on westbounds climbing the pass. ). Kind of confused me when I compared this video versus the one where the MRL locomotives stalled on the Laurel-Missoula freight. Love the videos, but I am just a fan, and not technically knowledgeable about some of the aspects of railroad operations. Really appreciate the education one gets when watching your videos, and reading your replies. Please keep up the great work, it is much appreciated.
TheMadNorsky Thanks Norsky. I really appreciate it. Let me know if you would like a copy of the operating guidelines for MRL which cover all aspects of setting up these trains throughout the MRL network. Thanks again.
Mick Boakes thanks for the kind words Mick. Camera is a Canon XF100. For Audio I use a Sound Devices MixPre mixer and an Audio Techica BP4029 stereo mic. I appreciate the comment.
How hard would it be to catch this same train coming out at Blossburg????? That is, say just the Austin video, could one make enough time on those mountain roads to get ahead of the train at Blossburg????? Again, very nice job.
@TheMadNorsky jigbobby is right in winter there is no way you can do it. In summer it is also very challenging since the road is pretty rutted out in places and it puts you down to a crawl. I know that depending on the train (heavies such as grain or coal) you can actually get back into town and over the pass and back towards Blossburg if you say at Birdseye/Tobin about 5 or 6 miles east of Austin. It is always a tough chase to shot a train and catch it twice but it can be done.
No absolutely does not need this many locomotives. I suspect it was a power move and I'm not sure if they were all even running. But if they were then the power settings would have been much reduced, so I think the fuel consumption would not have been increased too much . Thanks for commenting.
Thanks Cameron. All videos shot prior to July 20 2011 (including this one) were shot with a Panasonic HMC40 . All of the videos shot after that were shot with a Canon XF100. Any preference? Thanks for commenting.
nothing better than roaring EMD I listen to loud Rock music from the '70s on my Sony power box with UA-cam. when videos like this come up the volume is at the same setting
@jigbobby thanks. I've looked at the area on Google Earth, but that doesn't give a full feeling of what driving in the roads there would be like. Kind of figured it would be tough to do.
Not really sure what you mean BCOL, but this is Mullan Pass not Marias, and has 17 miles of 2.2% comp. gradient as opposed to Marias' 14 miles at 1.8%. Thanks for the comment and the sub.
How on earth do they work together adding constant power, I would have the couplers ripped off, beautiful landscape, boy finds a girl out there she is a keeper,
Whatever happened to 'slave' locomotives, ones without a cab, or personnel aboard, but with all the rest of what was required? I remember them from my youth, when they were used to bolster the pulling power of what were then quite recent EMD locomotives (which we called engines) that had replaced steam power.
Hi Thinker, The two CN locos and the UP loco are dead in tow. Of the others, the front two and the back one are controlled by the engineer in the lead loco. The mid-train helpers have a two-man crew. Thanks for commenting.
***** Sorry Thinker, I based my answer on what is the usual practice, with two locos up front. However looking again, it seems the third locomotive is online and pulling, with the two after that not working. There are specific regulations regarding power placement on trains climbing this pass. On a unit train such as this one, which is a unit train, meaning all cars are the same, and having helpers cut in to the middle, the maximum power allowed at the head is 32 Rated Powered Axles, or RPA. Each locomotive type is rated this way. The two SD70MAC's are rated at 8 each, and the three following those are rated at 7 each. So the engineer could have activated a fourth locomotive but not a fifth. Sorry for the long winded reply
+Curtis Westsail Curtis, for a while CN was taking coal from the mines in Montana and Wyoming and delivering it to a port in Prince Rupert BC. Some of these trains were run by BNSF from the mines to Seattle/Everett, where they were picked up by CN power and taken north. I think each company's locomotives got mingled by this agreement. In my video "BNSF and CN on the Bellingham Sub" you can see a 4-set of CN power heading south to Seattle/Everett to begin hauling these trains.This was all over trainorders at the time. You can also see a CN train climbing Mullan Pass in Montana in my video "CN/BNSF/MRL coal train nears Austin MT". Thanks for the comment.
Sam Cusimano Sam, its a lot quicker from the first spot to the second by road than it is by rail. You can easily beat the train to the second spot from the first, even in bad weather. Thanks for the comment.
Hi Lyle, the locomotives at the front and back are controlled by the engineer in the lead locomotive. The ones in the middle have one engineer and he takes instructions via radio from the engineer in the lead locomotive
+Rose White Rose the ones at the front and rear are controlled by the engineer at the front. The ones in the middle have their own crew, and respond to instructions from the engineer in the front.
Scott Hiddelston Hi, Scott, thanks, I was wondering about the economics of crewing so many engines. Then I was thinking that sorting the cars out on such a long train must be a couple of hours work at a yard? It's nice to see US still has industry as I'm in UK and we seem to make nothing now.
+Rose White Yes I bet it takes a long time. The trains you see with all the same cars (unit trains) simply do a circular route, usually taking materials west and returning to get more.
so does that mean when the driver puts the lead loco into notch 6, all the other locomotives go into notch 6? cause i thought they were just left on idle, but then again that just means there not putting any power down.
@@la6335 There is no driver, as there is no steering wheel. You have the option to control them as 1 or independently. ua-cam.com/video/Rhobsj-5P_s/v-deo.html
Kiko Mura Hi Kiko. Although this particular track is Montana Rail Link property, it sees a great amount of BNSf trains on it due to trackage rights. However the crews are all MRL. In this case BNSF allows locomotive to wander on a horsepower/hour basis, as does other railroads.
+Kiko Mura TRAINS magazine just did an article on that a month or two ago. I have it here somewhere but can't lay my hands on it. I have the Oct, Sep , Aug, July, April 2015 issues in front of me here , so it's not any of those .I expect it's in May or June 2015
Seems to me the tricky part isn't getting up Mullen Pass, it's getting down in one piece. I imagine some of those loco's were not so much for pulling power but rather for dynamic breaking slowing power on the way down.
Ralph, its 2.2% climbing westward, but only 1.4% going down the other side so most times the helpers are cut out at the top of the hill, or after a few miles downhill. Thanks for commenting.
A bit of a correction here but this train wasn't actually using 46,000 horsepower. Only the first three units on the head end were online. The CN SD75I #5679 was offline as was the UP SD70M #3881 trailing it. They were simply DIT and not part of the active consist. Furthermore the lead MRL SD70ACe #4301 was online but isolated. The remaining four SD70ACe's were however online and cut in adding their power to the consist as was the BNSF DPU on the rear. MRL commonly does this where they don't break up 4+ unit helper sets but rather on trains that don't require all 4+ units they will simply isolate one or more units to save fuel and maintenance costs. Technically this train was only actually using 33,400 horsepower (not subtracting altitude losses) not 46,000. I've worked for UP for a bit over 18 years now (scary as that is to think about) and it's not uncommon for us to do the same thing ferrying units along either for later us or having them DIT for one reason or another.
Henry. Thanks for the clarification Henry.
E÷÷e÷÷÷e
What is the meaning of DIT ? I can't trace it.
@@Lakeside1943 "Dead in tow"
That's one of the most impressing videos on youtube, 11 locomotives on 1 train, that's something .
Thank you very much indeed for sharing.
OooooWEEE!! BNSF, CN, UP, and MRL and ALL EMD with the exception of the D9 in the rear...A HELL of a catch there!
Absolutely fantastic, love those two 70MACs on the front, one of my favourites and always nice to see them on something other than coal.
that is a lot of power for moving trains. NS ran a dedicated coal train that had 7 diesel units, 4 lead, 3 radio units in the middle. the units brought 112 cars of coal down a 6% grade in Saluda, NC. full dynamic braking was used on the grade. The wgt was usually 11.000 to 12,000 tons. I enjoyed working on that train. there is a video on youtube about the train.
That's a lot of math.
Great video per usual. MRL isn't shy about using their ACes.
Mullan Pass... a railfan can spend a day here and lose himself, and not care at all.
I've done it many a time.
I love those 4 window wide cab Canadian models for some reason
Nice to see a "Draper Taper" 60F in the mix. I always thought those were cool looking. And everytime I see that much power going over that bridge, I always imagine all of the torque the engines are applying to the rails just pulling the whole dang thing over.
I like the way they sound. From 40-2's through the 70 series, the look is clean.
Beautiful work as usual Scott! Can't believe I missed this one? Starting to plan my trip for May next year, will keep you informed .
Cheers Gregg
Excellent Gregg !! Let me know.
Like that cn sd60 and the sd70m-2's! Very beautiful sound!
Wow. Not often you see a five unit MRL SD70ACe set in action. Nice.
Very nice video.
It isn't only the grade on the line that causes problems but also the curves. Before you get to the trestle you have already gone thru more than 360° of curves. By the time you get to Blossburg you have gone thru another 360°. It really is something to see from a train.
Wow!! Fantastic video!! Gorgeous scenery, love the opening shot of climbing the grade and the bridge shot great!! Nice angle, also liked how you catured the prime mover sounds. Looked fwd to watching more like this.
WCR
At :34 there is a metal table to the right of the wooden pole. On it are broken knuckle couplers... all piled up! If you are up there, check it out!
Wow, have watched trains in and out of Helena, but never had time to go watch them crawl up this 'hill!' Thanks! Seems like a bit of overkill on the power, but fun watching. Will have to try to make time to go up there in April after the Railfair weekend!
Beautiful images of the freight train!
11 engines, that will be some expensive corn. Anyway awesome clip!
Thanks framfull.
..haha ..uk
Awesome. A lot of power from a lot of railroads. Glad that bridge held up.
EMD. Impressive Scott, would have been a kick in the Axxs to see this in person. Great Video.
Robert
That's a lot of locomotive!
Almost certainly not all online, Amtrakguy, but good to see nevertheless. Thanks for commenting
My speakers really rumbled at 1:30. The desk vibrated!
An other great wondeful video (after "Congestion on Mullan Pass"). Excellent work! I'm fan of your work ;)
As an EMD fan its good to see them making a comeback
Probably the best video yet
@stlgevo51 thanks, and sorry for the late reply. Just heard that using 5ACe's as a helper set is no more. From now on 4 will be all, unless the experts get it wrong!
it looks like all the MRL's are running atleast, you can see the heat waves off them in th efirst shot. that bridge is sweet too!
@TheMadNorsky Thanks Norsky. The answer is: in Winter, no, in Summer, maybe. In Winter Austin Road is blocked just past the Skyline trestle. Its about 7.5 miles on the rails from Austin to Blossburg. That takes the train about 30 minutes on average. In Summer it might be do-able to take Austin Road all the way over and catch the train at Blossburg. But in Winter it would mean 15 miles back to Helena, maybe 30 miles on Hwy 12 west, and 6 miles up Mullan Pass (Dirt) Road . Going back in Summer !!
Scott, I had a question, but you answered it in one of the replies (RE: regarding how many engines at the front of the train, or powered axles, are allowed on westbounds climbing the pass. ). Kind of confused me when I compared this video versus the one where the MRL locomotives stalled on the Laurel-Missoula freight. Love the videos, but I am just a fan, and not technically knowledgeable about some of the aspects of railroad operations. Really appreciate the education one gets when watching your videos, and reading your replies. Please keep up the great work, it is much appreciated.
TheMadNorsky Thanks Norsky. I really appreciate it. Let me know if you would like a copy of the operating guidelines for MRL which cover all aspects of setting up these trains throughout the MRL network. Thanks again.
Your videos are great. Please keep uploading these; I have never seen anything like this before!
One GE. Just on GE. lol Awesome video!
Don’t know what equipment you use, but another beautifully clear and audio perfect video. Really great. Mick.🇬🇧
Mick Boakes thanks for the kind words Mick. Camera is a Canon XF100. For Audio I use a Sound Devices MixPre mixer and an Audio Techica BP4029 stereo mic. I appreciate the comment.
How hard would it be to catch this same train coming out at Blossburg????? That is, say just the Austin video, could one make enough time on those mountain roads to get ahead of the train at Blossburg????? Again, very nice job.
@TheMadNorsky
jigbobby is right in winter there is no way you can do it. In summer it is also very challenging since the road is pretty rutted out in places and it puts you down to a crawl. I know that depending on the train (heavies such as grain or coal) you can actually get back into town and over the pass and back towards Blossburg if you say at Birdseye/Tobin about 5 or 6 miles east of Austin. It is always a tough chase to shot a train and catch it twice but it can be done.
Thank You For Awesome Great Job's !
CONGRATULATIONS LOVE BUGS Y'ALL. .
We see alot of those sd60f's and sd75i's on the main where I am from!
10 out of 11 EMD's ...I did not think it possible in this GE era...
That ZEB is plying North Dakota now with a local there I do believe. Great video
No absolutely does not need this many locomotives. I suspect it was a power move and I'm not sure if they were all even running. But if they were then the power settings would have been much reduced, so I think the fuel consumption would not have been increased too much . Thanks for commenting.
in the pan at 2:26 you can see all three sets of power, Nice vid
Great video, it was almost as if they made music as they crossed that trestle.
Thanks Cameron. All videos shot prior to July 20 2011 (including this one) were shot with a Panasonic HMC40 . All of the videos shot after that were shot with a Canon XF100. Any preference?
Thanks for commenting.
Man, there is nothing so sweet as the sound of an all EMD consist in run 8!
realvanman1 agreed!! Thanks for commenting
Love the sound of the Dash 9
nothing better than roaring EMD I listen to loud Rock music from the '70s on my Sony power box with UA-cam. when videos like this come up the volume is at the same setting
Brilliant! I hope to be up there June 2012. UK railfan.
Nice video. If BNSF puts 12 locomotives on this train, there's no excuses why they don't use the Raton sub, "Raton Pass" line!!!!!
Superb videos !
irelandbloke Thanks ireland bloke I appreciate it.
You're very welcome :)
@jigbobby thanks. I've looked at the area on Google Earth, but that doesn't give a full feeling of what driving in the roads there would be like. Kind of figured it would be tough to do.
Not really sure what you mean BCOL, but this is Mullan Pass not Marias, and has 17 miles of 2.2% comp. gradient as opposed to Marias' 14 miles at 1.8%. Thanks for the comment and the sub.
What a colourful train good catch
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL A TRAIN TO WATCH FIVE UNITS INFRONT, FIVE IN THE MIDDLE AN ONE AT THE END VERY ATTRACTIVE.
Excellent !! I'll look forward to your videos. Any definite spots you plan to visit?
Holy crap! That was too awesome, damn!
Excellent video.
How on earth do they work together adding constant power, I would have the couplers ripped off, beautiful landscape, boy finds a girl out there she is a keeper,
Nice catch. Like the MRL SD70ACe's.
Sd70ace
Thanks Cameron. Me too. The Canon image is a bit flatter but those cyan skies just killed me
Thanks Martina. I appreciate the comment.
Nice video!
Thanks for this top quality video .
Love the SD70Ace's they look soo mean
Whatever happened to 'slave' locomotives, ones without a cab, or personnel aboard, but with all the rest of what was required? I remember them from my youth, when they were used to bolster the pulling power of what were then quite recent EMD locomotives (which we called engines) that had replaced steam power.
Those were a way of trying to save money, which it didn't, because now, those locomotives could never be used as leaders.
If you follow this track will it eventually take you to Greenhorn Trestle?
How are these controlled ? Does the lead loco control the rest ? How many of these are manned. There are different makes and models too. Amazing !
Hi Thinker, The two CN locos and the UP loco are dead in tow. Of the others, the front two and the back one are controlled by the engineer in the lead loco. The mid-train helpers have a two-man crew. Thanks for commenting.
Scott Hiddelston Thanks Scott.
By "dead in tow" you mean they don't contribute any pulling power ?
***** Sorry Thinker, I based my answer on what is the usual practice, with two locos up front. However looking again, it seems the third locomotive is online and pulling, with the two after that not working.
There are specific regulations regarding power placement on trains climbing this pass. On a unit train such as this one, which is a unit train, meaning all cars are the same, and having helpers cut in to the middle, the maximum power allowed at the head is 32 Rated Powered Axles, or RPA. Each locomotive type is rated this way. The two SD70MAC's are rated at 8 each, and the three following those are rated at 7 each. So the engineer could have activated a fourth locomotive but not a fifth. Sorry for the long winded reply
Scott Hiddelston Thanks for the detailed reply. One more. Can an EMD loco be controlled from a GE loco and vice versa ?
love those cn cowl sd-60s!!!!!!
Save the best loco in the lashup for last. Good choice! Nice catch!
@antias123 Thanks. Glad you enjoyed.
Overpowered yes, but 100 bulk cars usually sees a minimum of 7 locos on this pass. Thanks for commenting
@dutchtrainmanserie22 thanks Dutchman! Still get mad when I see that over-saturated sky above the bridge tho'.
How do they get the traction units power 🔋 distribution equalised?
Amazing mix of power. Great video.
Awesome railfan video.
What engine was at the back?
@zildjian3 was that the train in my video "MRL Work train Descends Mullan Pass"?
Im no railway operator but does this train really need that many locomotives. Lot of diesel fuel being consumed here
Long time ago but a great video 👍
Awesome Catch love the MRL's 5*
Do you know why the BNSF has CNR diesels assisting? I never knew CNR was in Montana.
+Curtis Westsail Curtis, for a while CN was taking coal from the mines in Montana and Wyoming and delivering it to a port in Prince Rupert BC. Some of these trains were run by BNSF from the mines to Seattle/Everett, where they were picked up by CN power and taken north. I think each company's locomotives got mingled by this agreement. In my video "BNSF and CN on the Bellingham Sub" you can see a 4-set of CN power heading south to Seattle/Everett to begin hauling these trains.This was all over trainorders at the time. You can also see a CN train climbing Mullan Pass in Montana in my video "CN/BNSF/MRL coal train nears Austin MT". Thanks for the comment.
I checked out the area on Google Maps. Was that the trestle over Greenhorn Creek or over Austin Creek?
Robert Ramsay Robert that is the skyline Trestle crossing over Austin Creek. Thanks for commenting.
Super, sound recording!
This ones are the big boys 1:21 30hz
Canadian locomotive deep inside the US... interesting!
Its not that deep in the US.
46000 hp!!!!!!!!!! Each? How much trains were there like 12
+Hayden no... combined. about 4000HP each.
Conductor at 1:30?
Nice and clean!
That was an awesome video. But how did you get in that gully ahead of that train?
Also I'm glad I wasn't on that train, I'd be shaking like a leaf :-)
Sam Cusimano Sam, its a lot quicker from the first spot to the second by road than it is by rail. You can easily beat the train to the second spot from the first, even in bad weather. Thanks for the comment.
Awesome. That is a lot of power.
Wow, that's a lot of power and force..
How do all the locomotives work together, is there an engineer in each locomotive or are they remote controlled. sorry dont know much about trains
Hi Lyle, the locomotives at the front and back are controlled by the engineer in the lead locomotive. The ones in the middle have one engineer and he takes instructions via radio from the engineer in the lead locomotive
Great shots you have here, really shows the brute power these units posses.
That's a hell of a camcorder you are using, what model is it?
Awesome show of power!
how many of the engines had a driver?
Is thre just a driver of the front engine then all the others are radio conytrol
+Rose White Rose the ones at the front and rear are controlled by the engineer at the front. The ones in the middle have their own crew, and respond to instructions from the engineer in the front.
Scott Hiddelston Hi, Scott, thanks, I was wondering about the economics of crewing so many engines.
Then I was thinking that sorting the cars out on such a long train must be a couple of hours work at a yard?
It's nice to see US still has industry as I'm in UK and we seem to make nothing now.
+Rose White Yes I bet it takes a long time. The trains you see with all the same cars (unit trains) simply do a circular route, usually taking materials west and returning to get more.
Is there a driver for each locomotive for the middle and the end? How do they control all of them at the same time???
By satellite
Distributed Powers Units are usually controlled by radio using the Locotrol system. They are not controlled by satellite.
so does that mean when the driver puts the lead loco into notch 6, all the other locomotives go into notch 6? cause i thought they were just left on idle, but then again that just means there not putting any power down.
@@la6335 There is no driver, as there is no steering wheel. You have the option to control them as 1 or independently.
ua-cam.com/video/Rhobsj-5P_s/v-deo.html
Great video= love the EMDs
question how does the process of using other companies locos work? do they lease them or just send help with a phone call.
Kiko Mura Hi Kiko. Although this particular track is Montana Rail Link property, it sees a great amount of BNSf trains on it due to trackage rights. However the crews are all MRL. In this case BNSF allows locomotive to wander on a horsepower/hour basis, as does other railroads.
+Kiko Mura TRAINS magazine just did an article on that a month or two ago. I have it here somewhere but can't lay my hands on it. I have the Oct, Sep , Aug, July, April 2015 issues in front of me here , so it's not any of those .I expect it's in May or June 2015
Whats heavier 9 trains or 46000 horses?
Awesome video !
Seems to me the tricky part isn't getting up Mullen Pass, it's getting down in one piece. I imagine some of those loco's were not so much for pulling power but rather for dynamic breaking slowing power on the way down.
Ralph, its 2.2% climbing westward, but only 1.4% going down the other side so most times the helpers are cut out at the top of the hill, or after a few miles downhill. Thanks for commenting.
Though the trailing locomotive is there primarily to manage slack and brake air on the line. It will assist in climbing as well.
Thanks