I work at a gear store and my god this is true. People will return/sell fantastic equipment because it didn’t “have that sound”, not understanding that no amp you’re in a room with will ever sound like your favorite album
@@Linguae_Music not exactly true. Production is a big part of music, but even the best produced music can be bland and boring. Song-writing is massively important, too. Especially in pop, because they need to write something that everyone will like, remember and understand yet they need to make it just complex enough that it sticks out from the rest. It's a very difficult balance.
Nuh uh... cuz one time i accidentally panned my bass a bit to the left, without realizing (i haven no idea how) And i only noticed after i uploaded it to spotify lmao
stereo bass can be awesome if you can get it consistent, double tracking it then panning it like a guitar is one of my favorite things to do when recording
@@xxmegamuertexx69 the two tracks will cause phase issues and inconsistency in bass frequencies. Sub bass is omni-directional, meaning your brain can't really figure from where it comes from directionally, so double tracking bass will only cause problems with playback on other systems
@@nicopillay4059 Also Kirk's guitars are usually the longer Fender scale which is 25 1/2", this could in theory give a brighter tone than James's shorter 24 3/4" Gibson-scale guitars.
@@bluebay0 never knew that, dude. Incredible how much of a difference it makes. Because you can hear how distinct both guitars sound during the harmonies and the Ride The Lightning intro during live shows.
@@georgescdoodle What about it? I said bass. That goes for bass in general (bass-git, bass-drum, upright-bass, etc..) unless it's a fancy ensemble or 70's style mix.
I remember as well someone told me you can also have 4 where 2 are full panned and 2 are like 70% (or 35% maybe, it was a long time ago I forget) panned.
The first single track sounded thick & full, the L/R pan is either out of phase or has a 150-200hz HP filter on. Way too tinny. Also maybe it was the way the bass guitar was treated in the L/R mix.
I didnt even realize that was a thing until the first time my band went into a studio. Figured id just have to do my parts once and good to go. Nope. "Do it again. And again. And again...."
@@BlackSailPass_GuitarCoversI've panned solos left and right one after the other to get that "dueling solos" effect. Works pretty well .. occasionally lol
if you end up panning things "in-between" then it can remove the wide effect as you're closing the space between the panned and mono signal that gives the illusion of width in the mix. That being said, don't knock it til' you try it, If you got things panned all over the place in a mix and it sounds great then go for that 🙌🙌
@@mikerockshard8282 Totally depends on the song/subgenre, there are a ton of records where the guitars are quad tracked and often using two different amps/cabs
Yeah, lots of people do that. You wouldn't want all 4 of them panned 100% left and right, though. You'd do 2 guitars panned 100% left and right and then the other 2 panned closer to the center probably somewhere between 35% and 55%. You can play around with it to see what sounds good to you.
@@francismcalister7811 Yeah, you definitely have to play tight for quad tracking, but there's also no rule saying you have to quad track for every part. For more intricate stuff you can still double track.
It depends on the riff or the tone you're going for. My current signal chain uses two different amps/cabs so I basically have no choice but to quad track. (Going for that Clayman sound)
@@drewburke6371 I think on sad but true, there are like 6 guitar tracks to make it sound massive. There definitely isn't 4 other guys playing guitar on stage with metallica when they play live. I was just wondering how the songs can possibly sound the same live
If I'm not mistaken, when they record the show, James's guitar is 90% to the left and Kirk's is 90% to the right, but I have no idea what it's like in real life
My understand is for rock/metal/riff music, you have two choices: 1) use effects to make a single guitar sound like more than one (quick delays, stereo modulation, doubler effects) or 2) double/triple/quad track. I really like the novelty and creativity involved in number one. Not many people do it well though. The later Van Halen albums, Zack Wylde, and later Killing Joke are great examples of it.
I need to start adding a third track damn. I akways like a distortion bass underneath. Thought doubling it left and right made more room for that in the center lol
Double tracking guitars has become a no brainer at this point in so many genres beyond metal. It's a must. Look at it like this: As long as you guys sound good live, who cares how much better it sounds on the record. Nobody ever said "oh their record sounds too good in comparison". Why not make it as good as it can be? And it's not like double tracking alters the character of your sound, it just sounds better.
@@abdullahkuzhan7247Double tracking (or any modern recording technique) should be a choice, not an obligation. It certainly doesn't suit music where the guitarist has any element of improvisation in their playing.
@@abdullahkuzhan7247 "Nobody ever said "oh their record sounds too good in comparison"". No, but plenty of people have said: "They sound weak & hollow live compared to their records."
and then there's me, recording my album quadruple tracking my way through songs, and y'all quad tracking 16th notes at 200bpm is the greatest pain up my ass ever let me tell you
This is why I listen to my music on foobar2000 because I am able to extend the L/R stereo channels to the rear L/R and center channel speakers giving me pseudo 5.1.
Hi. How much to set the panning from the center, 100, 70, 50% ? If I write two guitars, rhythm and melody, in different parts, how to make a doubltrack in this case ?
There’s always one of these guys who knows better than JAMES HETFIELD and BOB ROCK. “DURRR I actually prefer if the Mona Lisa was painted blue DURRRR” How many copies of the Black Album did they sell without soliciting your input…?
@@samsmith1999 If this was a jab at me, I'm not saying what should be there lol. I'm no authority on music, and I am noob. If you don't like a comment, just move on if you don't have anything informative to say.
Im noob at this and I fell of my chair when I hear the difference. So let me see if understood, you recorded the same riff 3 times or you just copied the original track and panned it?
Never been a huge fan of James’ tone on Black album. It’s really boxy and the distortion character kinda sounds like someone frying bacon. Best tones Metallica had were on Ride, Load and Garage Inc
@@barrythebee7363 Come to think of it, I don't think Metallica ever had a "bad" tone. I'm not the biggest fan of the Kill Em All tone but they probably couldn't do any better at the time so I can't blame them.
@@marshaltito7369 oh yeah, I never meant to say that it was a bad tone. Sort of like you were saying - Metallica have damn solid tones all round. In comparison though, I'm not a huge fan of the load tone. But yeah, it is still good
That's not double tracking, that's LCR tracking. Double tracking is when you record two performances for the left, two performances for the right, and then you blend those together to get a "wall of sound" in the mix. It's slightly less tight, but gives a really large sound to the mix.
these are very basic and rudimentary mixing techniques that have been used since the Beatles lol. sorry to say this but if you're only finding out about this now then most of the music you've heard in your life is "fake" including all your favorite songs probably 😉
@@farside3860 pretty much agree with you. And I do like metal a lot but it always bothered me that the instruments never sounded quite organic, even on stage, no wonder they need that stuff in their ears (i don't know how to say it in English). I mean, how massive a sound should be to make it seem like you're in a confusing sound madness in the stage? And I pretty much can't stand any modern metal. Even though they're playing the instruments, for me everything sounds like computer noise.
@@calebbean1384 i honestly rather listen to electronic music than modern metal. I know this song very well, i love metal, it doesn't mean i don't have critics
This is why I listen to my music on foobar2000 because I am able to extend the L/R stereo channels to the rear L/R and center channel speakers giving me pseudo 5.1.
James explained triple tracking as "one for the left, one for the right, and the third is the MEAT."
Are you saying they used 3 rythm tracks on the black album?
@@aegisreflector1239 probably more. They also blended amps and heads. Kirk said so in the interview with Rick Beato
How do I get ground beef out of my amp?
@@Demiglitch drop tune to H standard
@@aegisreflector1239 they used 3 tracks on the black album, except for sad but true where they used 5
the double tracking sound is what guitarist wanna sound like but they think don't know it's a recording thing and not a gear thing
I swear, about 80% of what people enjoy about their favorite bands, boils down to studio production.
If we're talking pop music... then its 100% lol
Actually you have gear like the TC Mimiq, this was one of the biggest tone revelation for me.
I work at a gear store and my god this is true. People will return/sell fantastic equipment because it didn’t “have that sound”, not understanding that no amp you’re in a room with will ever sound like your favorite album
Mostly true
@@Linguae_Music not exactly true. Production is a big part of music, but even the best produced music can be bland and boring. Song-writing is massively important, too. Especially in pop, because they need to write something that everyone will like, remember and understand yet they need to make it just complex enough that it sticks out from the rest. It's a very difficult balance.
Double it and give it to a next person
double it
lol
I like music
based and redpilled
Music I like.
No way!! We are so alike
@@emre30489
My brother from another mother!
I like pudding!
This video made me willingly listen to Enter Sandman for the first time since 1992.
freaking great track
Same dude. Here I go! 😱
It's a good song
On a side note... bass is always center, unless you're doing something crazy like Cliff Burton's intro in Tolls.
Nuh uh... cuz one time i accidentally panned my bass a bit to the left, without realizing (i haven no idea how)
And i only noticed after i uploaded it to spotify lmao
stereo bass can be awesome if you can get it consistent, double tracking it then panning it like a guitar is one of my favorite things to do when recording
Isn't like, a double tracked bass better?
@@xxmegamuertexx69 never tried, but i'd assume the low frequencies of the bass would make it sound too muddy om the mix
@@xxmegamuertexx69 the two tracks will cause phase issues and inconsistency in bass frequencies. Sub bass is omni-directional, meaning your brain can't really figure from where it comes from directionally, so double tracking bass will only cause problems with playback on other systems
To record an album that's how you do it.
Live they've got an additional guitarist panned at the opposite end AND a bassplayer in the middle 🤘
I only ever did left and right cuz thats what I was told, but u just made me a third leg believer
Do they re-record it or is it just copy and paste?
Re-record, it's gives a much thicker overall sound due to nuanced differences between the tracks
@@matthewnel8778and James uses Kirk's guitars to record tracks because Kirk's pick-up set is different
@@nicopillay4059 Also Kirk's guitars are usually the longer Fender scale which is 25 1/2", this could in theory give a brighter tone than James's shorter 24 3/4" Gibson-scale guitars.
re-record, if you copy and paste it really doesn't change the feel at all.
@@bluebay0 never knew that, dude. Incredible how much of a difference it makes. Because you can hear how distinct both guitars sound during the harmonies and the Ride The Lightning intro during live shows.
Quad tracking is where it's at for me. 2 left, 2 right. Both sides one panned at 80% and one at 100%
2 tracks left and right and a hard edit (pocketing) makes guitars sound huge. Better leave the middle area for bass vocals and snare!
and if using kicks in the studio, have them panned at like 1 o clock and 11 o clock respectively, gives a massive percussive sound
What about the kick?
In my experience the center track is not necessary if you have a crunch bass tone that fills out the mix.
@@georgescdoodle What about it? I said bass. That goes for bass in general (bass-git, bass-drum, upright-bass, etc..) unless it's a fancy ensemble or 70's style mix.
It tastes like burning 🔥
triple tracking keeping you big as hell
It’s also important to have The Right Hand of Hetfield so the multiple tracks don’t sound like mush when you put them together.
I remember as well someone told me you can also have 4 where 2 are full panned and 2 are like 70% (or 35% maybe, it was a long time ago I forget) panned.
That's a good way to kill the stereo width of your song, which you MIGHT want to do on purpose during certain sections.
So one track on the left panned left and one track on the right panned right and one in the middle placed center?
Exactly
Yep, double track too
3 tracks total, play all individually, no copy and pasting@@bandolierboy1908
one for me, one for you, and ummm i forget the joke I had in mind
The first single track sounded thick & full, the L/R pan is either out of phase or has a 150-200hz HP filter on. Way too tinny. Also maybe it was the way the bass guitar was treated in the L/R mix.
I didnt even realize that was a thing until the first time my band went into a studio. Figured id just have to do my parts once and good to go. Nope. "Do it again. And again. And again...."
Kid named finger:
How did Mike meme find its way in here
1st one center sounded best though? 🤔
How should you pan a guitar solo to get the most effective results in a recording? Asking for my own knowledge
Solos down the center.
Unless you're harmonising parts, in which case go for a slight L/R pan.
@@BlackSailPass_GuitarCoversI've panned solos left and right one after the other to get that "dueling solos" effect. Works pretty well .. occasionally lol
The most important things are always in the center panning is to make space for them
Same goes for vocals as well
Ayo, a fellow Waveform user
I love a comment section full of people who have no idea what they’re talking about, like “yep this is how you’re always supposed to do it!”
should add a quad track. two hard pans, two around 70-80 each side.
No.
if you end up panning things "in-between" then it can remove the wide effect as you're closing the space between the panned and mono signal that gives the illusion of width in the mix. That being said, don't knock it til' you try it, If you got things panned all over the place in a mix and it sounds great then go for that 🙌🙌
@@farside3860you should just use different eq and filtering instead to create that illusion that's how ankot of headphones create space nowadays.
@@mikerockshard8282 Totally depends on the song/subgenre, there are a ton of records where the guitars are quad tracked and often using two different amps/cabs
That's a great way to suck the width out of your song.
Basically they use the left for jh right for kh.
Is quad-tracking (meaning two guitars on the left and two on the right) worth it?
Yeah, lots of people do that. You wouldn't want all 4 of them panned 100% left and right, though. You'd do 2 guitars panned 100% left and right and then the other 2 panned closer to the center probably somewhere between 35% and 55%. You can play around with it to see what sounds good to you.
@@JonnyCrackers I can imagine it being kind of a nightmare to track for hard riffs and licks though
@@francismcalister7811 Yeah, you definitely have to play tight for quad tracking, but there's also no rule saying you have to quad track for every part. For more intricate stuff you can still double track.
It depends on the riff or the tone you're going for. My current signal chain uses two different amps/cabs so I basically have no choice but to quad track. (Going for that Clayman sound)
@@JonnyCrackers If you do that, you're killing your stereo width.
How do they reproduce this live?
You can still do panning and steroids separation with audio coming out of speakers
I'm not 100% surw how it would sound in a live set up.
@@drewburke6371 I think on sad but true, there are like 6 guitar tracks to make it sound massive. There definitely isn't 4 other guys playing guitar on stage with metallica when they play live. I was just wondering how the songs can possibly sound the same live
If I'm not mistaken, when they record the show, James's guitar is 90% to the left and Kirk's is 90% to the right, but I have no idea what it's like in real life
@@spencermcbride3881maybe they use more distortion, i really don't know about this stuff still learning
The answer is: They don't. Few metal bands sound how they sound on. Albums live.
My understand is for rock/metal/riff music, you have two choices: 1) use effects to make a single guitar sound like more than one (quick delays, stereo modulation, doubler effects) or 2) double/triple/quad track. I really like the novelty and creativity involved in number one. Not many people do it well though. The later Van Halen albums, Zack Wylde, and later Killing Joke are great examples of it.
Zakk Wylde’s chorus effect is awful.
@@mutoneon I'm curious now you got an example?
@@mutoneon Can't agree with that at all. Listen to No More Tears, and try to hate it.
On some Death albums Chuck Schuldiner used a chorus in parts as well as double tracking them
1 is basically never a good idea for a professional mix.
I need to start adding a third track damn. I akways like a distortion bass underneath. Thought doubling it left and right made more room for that in the center lol
My question is: these 3 tracks are the same recording or each one is an unique record?
Unique, record it 3 times Doesnt sound very good copy and pasting.
Miśka lubi szokoladku
We just have one guitarist in our band so we really try to shy away from double tracking, as it is _not_ how we sound live
Double tracking guitars has become a no brainer at this point in so many genres beyond metal. It's a must. Look at it like this: As long as you guys sound good live, who cares how much better it sounds on the record. Nobody ever said "oh their record sounds too good in comparison". Why not make it as good as it can be? And it's not like double tracking alters the character of your sound, it just sounds better.
@@abdullahkuzhan7247Double tracking (or any modern recording technique) should be a choice, not an obligation. It certainly doesn't suit music where the guitarist has any element of improvisation in their playing.
@@abdullahkuzhan7247 "Nobody ever said "oh their record sounds too good in comparison"". No, but plenty of people have said: "They sound weak & hollow live compared to their records."
and then there's me, recording my album quadruple tracking my way through songs, and y'all quad tracking 16th notes at 200bpm is the greatest pain up my ass ever let me tell you
Is each individual track in mono or stereo format?
mono
Always mix in mono
Correction, always mix in stereo. Record your guitars in mono. Unless you have a stereo setup@@dreamflux6964
How bout two more tracks each slightly panned either way with some reverb
This is why I listen to my music on foobar2000 because I am able to extend the L/R stereo channels to the rear L/R and center channel speakers giving me pseudo 5.1.
I still use Winamp
James has stated that on Master of puppets there are like 80 guitar tracks stacked
Where did he say that?
There might be 80 total tracks but there's no way there's 80 guitars playing at the same time
That would sound like pure ass no matter how good of a guitar player or mixer you are.
🔥
Hi. How much to set the panning from the center, 100, 70, 50% ? If I write two guitars, rhythm and melody, in different parts, how to make a doubltrack in this case ?
What is panning?
selecting where the sound comes from. From left to right, or in surround sound, all around you.
is it recommended to use two different takes or to just copy and paste the same take L/R
if you just pan the same take to both sides you’re accomplishing nothing
ok cool thank u@@zynthio
yeah panning the same take turns it into a louder centered guitar, it's the subtle differences in the two performances that create the wide sound
A guitar centric approach. If it serves the song.
now mobile phones have ruined it
Why?
Turn Down the gain and it Will Sound even thicker
Check out my bands songs on my channel!!! I do mostly left and right tracking. Sometimes three tracks
I actually like the sound of the center panning because it sounds more crunchy and direct to me
problem is usually that won't sound good in a mix because its fighting with the bass and drum and vocals all at the same time
There’s always one of these guys who knows better than JAMES HETFIELD and BOB ROCK.
“DURRR I actually prefer if the Mona Lisa was painted blue DURRRR”
How many copies of the Black Album did they sell without soliciting your input…?
@@samsmith1999 More like you being the guy who says "this digital artist is better than Da Vinci"
@@samsmith1999 If this was a jab at me, I'm not saying what should be there lol. I'm no authority on music, and I am noob. If you don't like a comment, just move on if you don't have anything informative to say.
You could always quad track, so you get stereo and some extra crunch and directness with it
Actually i like quad tracking and hexa tracking
one time i tracked guitars like 8 times and it sounded massive but i ended up not using it lol
My wife and I are married
Im noob at this and I fell of my chair when I hear the difference. So let me see if understood, you recorded the same riff 3 times or you just copied the original track and panned it?
they’re 3 different takes
The guitar still sounds awful though 😂
We have 2 years and stereo exists for a reason.
You're predicting humans only have 2 years left? Fuck.
Gitar
Can confirm
You're also supposed to turn down the gain for every guitar you have being played. Unless it's a solo
Never been a huge fan of James’ tone on Black album. It’s really boxy and the distortion character kinda sounds like someone frying bacon. Best tones Metallica had were on Ride, Load and Garage Inc
Load was probably the worst tone they ever had? Atleast the least interesting one
@@barrythebee7363 I can't disagree more.
@@UseTheSupeRsonic load tone is like the black album tone but worse dynamically
@@barrythebee7363 Come to think of it, I don't think Metallica ever had a "bad" tone. I'm not the biggest fan of the Kill Em All tone but they probably couldn't do any better at the time so I can't blame them.
@@marshaltito7369 oh yeah, I never meant to say that it was a bad tone. Sort of like you were saying - Metallica have damn solid tones all round. In comparison though, I'm not a huge fan of the load tone. But yeah, it is still good
No need for those if the tune is good.
lol sure
Music production is clearly not something you’re interested in.
@@mutoneon you’re right, I’m interested in playing music
@@Dellvmnyamyou can do both if you aren't lazy
@@calebbean1384 but I’m lazy fortunately ^_^
What about bass? Double track or Single track
Single bass track in middle
That's not double tracking, that's LCR tracking. Double tracking is when you record two performances for the left, two performances for the right, and then you blend those together to get a "wall of sound" in the mix. It's slightly less tight, but gives a really large sound to the mix.
What you described is quad tracking.
Fake music explained
these are very basic and rudimentary mixing techniques that have been used since the Beatles lol. sorry to say this but if you're only finding out about this now then most of the music you've heard in your life is "fake" including all your favorite songs probably 😉
@@farside3860 pretty much agree with you. And I do like metal a lot but it always bothered me that the instruments never sounded quite organic, even on stage, no wonder they need that stuff in their ears (i don't know how to say it in English). I mean, how massive a sound should be to make it seem like you're in a confusing sound madness in the stage? And I pretty much can't stand any modern metal. Even though they're playing the instruments, for me everything sounds like computer noise.
@@samaldinithis is using a riff from a very old metal song though. Modern metal is definitely overproduced compared to old metal though
@@calebbean1384 i honestly rather listen to electronic music than modern metal. I know this song very well, i love metal, it doesn't mean i don't have critics
This is why I listen to my music on foobar2000 because I am able to extend the L/R stereo channels to the rear L/R and center channel speakers giving me pseudo 5.1.