Her 3 treasons happening so quick makes me think Dany won't live for to much longer because those treasons would be spread out longer over a 15 year old
Wow, guys!! Nice catch with that Qohor being sacked by the Golden Company story from the app. Plus, since Aegon and the Golden Company are set to go against Dany and the Unsulied, it helps to stablish the Golden Company's "cred" as having beaten the Unsulied before.
Thanks for another massive video! Just a shout out to Steven - I finally got a good screenreader and am devouring your CBC analyses - tremendous work, and like the books, they seem to get longer and deeper as I go along.
I just gotta say, I am always looking for new ASOIAF channels and usually I lose interest once they base a theory on another of their theories or the logic is really reaching. But each episode from you guys is well thought out, logical and so engaging! Keep up the fantastic work.
This lead me to Steven's work! Thanks for turning over such a juicy morsel for me to distract myself with durning my ACOK reread that I was in the middle of when I listened to this.
How come bloodraven and bittersteel never adopted a new last name? They are legitimized. Also Bittersteel was line in throne too. I wondered why he didn't try to do it for himself after couple of rebellion?
Good question. We will answer this in more depth when we do a Blackfyre Q&A (when our series is complete). But for now, I will say that it is in part because neither Bittersteel nor Bloodraven started families. Also, if you take a last name it implies you are founding a house. If you have royal blood and are founding a house... that makes you a potential threat to the Iron Throne. Because even if you never make a move, your kids or grandkids might.
Blackfyre is in the Iron Bank. Bittersteel sold it to continue funding the Golden Company after losing ( good soldiers, most importantly ), either the 3rd or 4th "Rebellions."
7:40 tbf “allying to someone with a claim” is something exiles frequently did during the wars of the roses as the fled across the English Channel to france
21:50 I don’t think that at least the 1st generation of Blackfyre kids had it as hard as Dany and viserys-remember their mother was Rohanne of tyrosh, daughter of the Archon of tyrosh. Their grandfather or uncle is a powerful tyroshi noble. When Daemon ii returns as John the fiddler, he talks like a high lord, wears fine clothes, and smells of “eastern spice”
We think there is a very strong chance of this, or a similar betrayal. I worry that it will be Barristan who betrays Dany for Young Griff, because he is ahead of her in the line of succession (we know he might not be Rhaegar's son, but what matters is what Barristan believes). In general, we believe the betrayal for blood will have something to do with Young Griff.
@@TobeWilsonNetwork 2 years later but that would be incredibly out of character berristen may be duty bound person but not so much that he would betray someone he's already serving , he went to a whole different continent just to serve dany he wouldn't just drop her on a dime just because some kid claims he's Rhaegars son .
Hi. I just got a new idea. As you know, aegon is a dragon , albeit false.. he will take grey plague from his Griff.. and become the "stone dragon" who spreads grey flames. A stone dragon checks as it is "black". And "false" and he is closest to spread greyscale.
I'm obviously guessing but I think Aegon is Ilirios son who is a Blackfyre but I think Aegon and Connington don't know this and I'd love to see how they would react if they find out
Throughout this series, I have been trying to figure out who built Summerhall... and when was it built? And who used it primarily? It had to have been built pretty close to the time of these great bastards.
Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that when Bittersteel joined the sons that he brought a contingent of exiles with him. Just based on how GRRM likes to mirror stories you would expect he joined with as many Ravens teeth went to the wall. If so he would have been able to make a lot more money as a commanders share and not just a common solider.
Regarding Blackfyres leading the Golden Company - If you have concluded that the Golden Company was most likely led by a member of House Blackfyre after the death of Bittersteel in a kind of hereditary succession to me this suggests that there was infighting between 241 and 258ish. I think this because Maelys became the last male descendant of Daemon Blackfyre I only twenty years after Bittersteel's death. I find this difficult to believe considering Daemon Blackfyre I produced seven male lines of descent. However, its one of those lack of information situations where we know Daemon I had seven sons but how many of those sons continued to have sons is unclear, as your diagram shows. From what I can see as well, there isn't a huge amount of information about what is going on in Essos between 241 and 258 (death of Bittersteel until the formation of the Band of Nine) unless I am missing something. It could be that a lot of male Blackfyres may have died from different campaigns the Golden Company was involved with during these years but to me the best suggestion is infighting. Perhaps the death of Uncle Bittersteel caused a bit of chaos among the Blackfyre descendants as he seemed to be the one ultimately "in charge", particularly when we look at his lack of support of Daemon II as a big deal by those in Westeros. With his influence gone as you say whos is the 'Alpha Blackfyre'. Who knows it could have been a mixture of both infighting and male Blackfyre deaths through other means. A thought that I have and this was kind of touched on in the video is the potential infighting could have been caused by a conflict of cultures/beliefs regarding hereditary succession. As we know, hereditary succession is very important in Westeros but not so much in Essos, particularly the Free Cities and Tyrosh where the Blackfyres are based. As time goes on, more Blackfyres are born in western Essos and may have a more Essosi view that the elected individual Blackfyre should lead rather than simply the oldest son. In contrast, other Blackfyres may have tried to keep hold of their Westerosi heritage. There may have been struggles over trying to maintain their Westerosi traditions and reject the influence of Essos which could lead to brother fighting brother. I believe this could explain why Aenys Blackfyre thought he could move ahead of Daemon III in the line of succession. To Aenys, the Great Council was an election. Although Aenys was born in Westeros he would have spent the vast majority of his life in Essos and may have been influenced by the cultures of the Free Cities, especially if he was living with his mother's Tyroshi family who were at one point archons. Furthermore, this could explain why the Golden Company elect their leaders like many other sellsword companies in Essos rather than a hereditary succession. You've mentioned how the rank and file of the modern Golden Company come from all over the world but a large portion from Essos. Do we know how the Golden Company casts their votes? Is it like the Night's Watch where every member has a vote or only the select elite? Regardless, it is clear that elected leaders are the way the Golden Company operate now and this Essosi influence has appeared.
could the family names be like a rank thing too? and ones who have been with the company long and done a lot of good deeds get a name and get a better one based off of this?
Also, off topic, I was wondering which sellsword company you think that Oberyn Martell founded? I've seen people suggesting the Windblown and the brave companions. Aziz, your fAegon voice is gold!
+Thunder Clap Wikipedia can be useful but it isn't always correct. I thought Oberyn fought for the second sons before starting his own company ... don't quote me but I'm pretty sure Tyrion mentions it when he is waiting to meet Oberyn in ASOS. Must look it up now, it's annoying me lol
" The boy of sixteen was a man past forty now, and his legend had grown a deal darker. He had traveled in the Free Cities, learning the poisoner's trade and perhaps arts darker still, if rumors could be believed. He had studied at the Citadel, going so far as to forge six links of a maester's chain before he grew bored. He had soldiered in the Disputed Lands across the narrow sea, riding with the Second Sons for a time before forming his own company. His tourneys, his battles, his duels, his horses, his carnality . . " A Storm of Swords - Tyrion V
Hey Aziz, I read a post on r/asoiaf with some pretty compelling evidence for Maggy = Melisandre. It has the hallmarks of all pretty rock solid GRRM ASOIAF theories, complete with same wording to describe each character. It is pretty crackpot but could add some incredible depth to the story and all the events that lead to the Targ downfall, Roberts uprising and Stannis current status. It would also explain why GRRM thinks Mel is one of the more misunderstood characters. ua-cam.com/video/E5_QQreskNI/v-deo.html Hopefully me bringing this to your attention could lead to some deeper dives into this theory and maybe unraveling of more mysteries of ASOIAF that have yet been unearthed. PS: I've been subbed for a long time and when I went on your channel to comment this I saw I was unsubscribed! Goddam youtube has to get their shit together.
Hold up , they beat the Unsullied? Wow that slipped past me too but let's keep it real those Unsullied were probably old fat and about to be replaced .
Thunder Clap when does it say they beat the unsullied defending Qohor? The only reference of Qohor I have heard is against the Dothraki.. in which the Dothraki killed most of them but because they did not obliterate them like Dothraki do they cut off their braids and tossed them at the few remaining Unsullied who snuck behind their lines.. even there the unsullied were beaten but to history the Dothraki consider it a loss.. I never heard of the GC defeating Unsullied unless there was like 100 of them defending Qohors gates lol
Kevin Wells ok it says the defenses of Qohor were left to the Unsullied after the Dothraki defeat.. but even after that battle there were 7,000 Dothraki left to 600 Unsullied.. I would not call it a Qohor victory if not for some Dothraki braid ritual.. then you figure if there are let's say 5,000 Unsullied defending Qohor against 10k GCs. Is it that impressive that the Gc sacked the city ? They don't admit defeat like the Dothraki did so they would fight to a man and easily outnumber the Unsullied defenses but I don't remember hearing of an Unsullied army fighting the GC here
Christopher Jordan I think we're saying the same thing , GC sack of Qohor wasn't that impressive. And as for the 3000 of Qohor battle it was a pyrrhic victory for the Unsullied and a total victory for the Qohoric people.
basically, yest. If we're getting technical (which you know we love to do) there were 4 properly named "Blackfyre Rebellions" and the War of Ninepenny Kings. Maelys was the 5th Blackfyre Pretender but the Ninepenny Kings also attacked Tyrosh and other places completely unrelated to Blackfyrfe ambitions or claims. So there's some crossover.
Just a thought for another reason the fourth rebellion (Daemon III) went so poorly.. The fighters in their prime for the Blackfyre side wouldn’t be as inspired by Bittersteel. He was still a great man, no doubt. But he was out of his prime. It’s like younger generations these days always hear about the greatness of Michael Jordan. The still see him doing things off the court and can see he’s clearly incredibly successful and must’ve been legendary at his craft. But they never saw that greatness in person. It’s harder to be motivated by a legend when you only hear stories of someone’s peak greatness. Blackfyre (the sword) would’ve certainly made up the difference if they still possessed it.
I was listening to this in my headphones then I came back to watch the video wondering who is the women in the audio and I see no woman but now the dude in the video sounds like a woman to me but not really? huh?
do you mean pidgeons? :) to my knowledge church bells was used as warnings about vikingraids. and the ironborn are using viking tactics on the eastern shores of westeroos. so shouldnt be hard to believe that a blackphyre fleet would use allys in westeroos to help them land without the kings landing being able to muster an army and prepare the for a landing like "normandy". anyways, really enjoy your show - really looking forward to more! youre the westeroosi version of HH! when i get back to financial stability - ill def go and support on patron!
"That's so bloodraven" "we need a lil Jon up in here" lmaooooo
Bittersteel has the power of friendship and rage on his side.
Her 3 treasons happening so quick makes me think Dany won't live for to much longer because those treasons would be spread out longer over a 15 year old
Wow, guys!! Nice catch with that Qohor being sacked by the Golden Company story from the app. Plus, since Aegon and the Golden Company are set to go against Dany and the Unsulied, it helps to stablish the Golden Company's "cred" as having beaten the Unsulied before.
Thanks for another massive video! Just a shout out to Steven - I finally got a good screenreader and am devouring your CBC analyses - tremendous work, and like the books, they seem to get longer and deeper as I go along.
Always a welcome sight
I just gotta say, I am always looking for new ASOIAF channels and usually I lose interest once they base a theory on another of their theories or the logic is really reaching. But each episode from you guys is well thought out, logical and so engaging! Keep up the fantastic work.
I never cared much about the Golden Company in ASoIaF. I was wrong; this is one of the most interesting episodes that you guys have done!
Well I now know what I'm doing for the next 2 hours
This lead me to Steven's work! Thanks for turning over such a juicy morsel for me to distract myself with durning my ACOK reread that I was in the middle of when I listened to this.
great to hear it! Steven is very prolific and skilled so yeah, calling it a juicy morsel is right on.
How come bloodraven and bittersteel never adopted a new last name? They are legitimized. Also Bittersteel was line in throne too. I wondered why he didn't try to do it for himself after couple of rebellion?
Good question. We will answer this in more depth when we do a Blackfyre Q&A (when our series is complete). But for now, I will say that it is in part because neither Bittersteel nor Bloodraven started families.
Also, if you take a last name it implies you are founding a house. If you have royal blood and are founding a house... that makes you a potential threat to the Iron Throne. Because even if you never make a move, your kids or grandkids might.
Good job on the Daenarys passage; substituting the Blackfyre names for the original ones fit surprisingly well :)
thanks! I was so happy when I realized it would work.
Blackfyre is in the Iron Bank. Bittersteel sold it to continue funding the Golden Company after losing ( good soldiers, most importantly ), either the 3rd or 4th "Rebellions."
I know they're totally unrelated, but I love listening to this/watching while I play Dark Souls. Both properties have such rich lore!
Rodrigo Lanas So not just me then.😁
Same here, only with the Witcher :D
Rodrigo Lanas it's monster hunter for me. but yea, same
I do the same thing while playing Xcom2
Overwatch and skyrim for me
7:40 tbf “allying to someone with a claim” is something exiles frequently did during the wars of the roses as the fled across the English Channel to france
@00:32:20 - your Aegon voice reminds me of the guy from Princess Bride who plays the game with deciding which challice is poisoned.
Ha, "don't go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!"
21:50 I don’t think that at least the 1st generation of Blackfyre kids had it as hard as Dany and viserys-remember their mother was Rohanne of tyrosh, daughter of the Archon of tyrosh. Their grandfather or uncle is a powerful tyroshi noble. When Daemon ii returns as John the fiddler, he talks like a high lord, wears fine clothes, and smells of “eastern spice”
Well met, Ser. That T-shirt is brilliant.
so good. I love the blackfyres.
You guys have come so far! I fondly remember listening to the first Bittersteel video. You are legends.
Do you think Varys is one of the three treasons "ONE FOR BLOOD" young Griff being blood kin aka Blackfyre, he already betrayed Viserys
We think there is a very strong chance of this, or a similar betrayal. I worry that it will be Barristan who betrays Dany for Young Griff, because he is ahead of her in the line of succession (we know he might not be Rhaegar's son, but what matters is what Barristan believes). In general, we believe the betrayal for blood will have something to do with Young Griff.
@@HistoryofWesteros Barristan would be a heartbreaking betrayal, but I could totally see him believing he was duty bound to do so.
@@TobeWilsonNetwork 2 years later but that would be incredibly out of character berristen may be duty bound person but not so much that he would betray someone he's already serving , he went to a whole different continent just to serve dany he wouldn't just drop her on a dime just because some kid claims he's Rhaegars son .
@Steven* Atwell* what a brilliant dude with great insights.
Man oh man, the Super Bowl and this sweet cherry on top
Atlanta... WTF??
FreestyleFakiiri My exact reaction. The disbelief is so real
If the golden company had an election that came out even on both sides.... Would that call for a dule?
Maelys the monstrous was a captain general who actually did duel his cousin
Hi. I just got a new idea. As you know, aegon is a dragon , albeit false.. he will take grey plague from his Griff.. and become the "stone dragon" who spreads grey flames. A stone dragon checks as it is "black". And "false" and he is closest to spread greyscale.
I really liked this instalment of the Blackfyre Rebellions! Another great collaboration with Steven Atwell. :)
I'm obviously guessing but I think Aegon is Ilirios son who is a Blackfyre but I think Aegon and Connington don't know this and I'd love to see how they would react if they find out
Throughout this series, I have been trying to figure out who built Summerhall... and when was it built? And who used it primarily? It had to have been built pretty close to the time of these great bastards.
Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that when Bittersteel joined the sons that he brought a contingent of exiles with him. Just based on how GRRM likes to mirror stories you would expect he joined with as many Ravens teeth went to the wall. If so he would have been able to make a lot more money as a commanders share and not just a common solider.
1:18:36 Randyll Tarly
1:42:01 bookmark
Anybody else see the debris on other dude's screen?
I kept scratching at it thinking it was something on my screen.
haha haha
Excellent job. Cannot wait for the Bloodraven episode.
Woohoo! Workout material for the week!
Perfect way to spend an evening, great work guys!
Loved watching this. Very interesting!
well no the worst possibilities for the black fires died before the 2nd rebellion on Ashford,that worst possibility was balor break spear as king
Bloody hell i have waited for this one, thank you guys!
basically they did what the romans did take other nations fighting styles and instruments and usually they improved on it
FUCK YEAH!!
Regarding Blackfyres leading the Golden Company - If you have concluded that the Golden Company was most likely led by a member of House Blackfyre after the death of Bittersteel in a kind of hereditary succession to me this suggests that there was infighting between 241 and 258ish. I think this because Maelys became the last male descendant of Daemon Blackfyre I only twenty years after Bittersteel's death. I find this difficult to believe considering Daemon Blackfyre I produced seven male lines of descent. However, its one of those lack of information situations where we know Daemon I had seven sons but how many of those sons continued to have sons is unclear, as your diagram shows. From what I can see as well, there isn't a huge amount of information about what is going on in Essos between 241 and 258 (death of Bittersteel until the formation of the Band of Nine) unless I am missing something. It could be that a lot of male Blackfyres may have died from different campaigns the Golden Company was involved with during these years but to me the best suggestion is infighting. Perhaps the death of Uncle Bittersteel caused a bit of chaos among the Blackfyre descendants as he seemed to be the one ultimately "in charge", particularly when we look at his lack of support of Daemon II as a big deal by those in Westeros. With his influence gone as you say whos is the 'Alpha Blackfyre'. Who knows it could have been a mixture of both infighting and male Blackfyre deaths through other means.
A thought that I have and this was kind of touched on in the video is the potential infighting could have been caused by a conflict of cultures/beliefs regarding hereditary succession. As we know, hereditary succession is very important in Westeros but not so much in Essos, particularly the Free Cities and Tyrosh where the Blackfyres are based. As time goes on, more Blackfyres are born in western Essos and may have a more Essosi view that the elected individual Blackfyre should lead rather than simply the oldest son. In contrast, other Blackfyres may have tried to keep hold of their Westerosi heritage. There may have been struggles over trying to maintain their Westerosi traditions and reject the influence of Essos which could lead to brother fighting brother. I believe this could explain why Aenys Blackfyre thought he could move ahead of Daemon III in the line of succession. To Aenys, the Great Council was an election. Although Aenys was born in Westeros he would have spent the vast majority of his life in Essos and may have been influenced by the cultures of the Free Cities, especially if he was living with his mother's Tyroshi family who were at one point archons. Furthermore, this could explain why the Golden Company elect their leaders like many other sellsword companies in Essos rather than a hereditary succession. You've mentioned how the rank and file of the modern Golden Company come from all over the world but a large portion from Essos. Do we know how the Golden Company casts their votes? Is it like the Night's Watch where every member has a vote or only the select elite? Regardless, it is clear that elected leaders are the way the Golden Company operate now and this Essosi influence has appeared.
I love your guys' videos, but I wish the guest's mic/connection was better as it made it somewhat hard for me to understand what he was saying
could the family names be like a rank thing too? and ones who have been with the company long and done a lot of good deeds get a name and get a better one based off of this?
Interesting idea, it seems possible.
Also, off topic, I was wondering which sellsword company you think that Oberyn Martell founded? I've seen people suggesting the Windblown and the brave companions. Aziz, your fAegon voice is gold!
Katherine de Roet Wikipedia now says Second Sons ,not sure if I believe it.
+Thunder Clap Wikipedia can be useful but it isn't always correct. I thought Oberyn fought for the second sons before starting his own company ... don't quote me but I'm pretty sure Tyrion mentions it when he is waiting to meet Oberyn in ASOS. Must look it up now, it's annoying me lol
Katherine de Roet I too was under the impression that Prince Oberyn fought with the Second Sons
" The boy of sixteen was a man past forty now, and his legend had grown a deal darker. He had traveled in the Free Cities, learning the poisoner's trade and perhaps arts darker still, if rumors could be believed. He had studied at the Citadel, going so far as to forge six links of a maester's chain before he grew bored. He had soldiered in the Disputed Lands across the narrow sea, riding with the Second Sons for a time before forming his own company. His tourneys, his battles, his duels, his horses, his carnality . . " A Storm of Swords - Tyrion V
Faegon might not be a Blackfire, but I think given his training I'd vote for him as president
Hey Aziz, I read a post on r/asoiaf with some pretty compelling evidence for Maggy = Melisandre. It has the hallmarks of all pretty rock solid GRRM ASOIAF theories, complete with same wording to describe each character. It is pretty crackpot but could add some incredible depth to the story and all the events that lead to the Targ downfall, Roberts uprising and Stannis current status. It would also explain why GRRM thinks Mel is one of the more misunderstood characters. ua-cam.com/video/E5_QQreskNI/v-deo.html
Hopefully me bringing this to your attention could lead to some deeper dives into this theory and maybe unraveling of more mysteries of ASOIAF that have yet been unearthed.
PS: I've been subbed for a long time and when I went on your channel to comment this I saw I was unsubscribed! Goddam youtube has to get their shit together.
Do you think aerion brightflame was approached by bittersteel while in lys?
Your breakdowns are extremely well researched and informative love that you stick to the source materials 👏👏👍Thank you and keep it going!
Fuck yes, going to listen tomorrow
Been waiting on this vid for awhile
This made my day! Thank you!
Good work
SWEEEEET!!!!
Hold up , they beat the Unsullied? Wow that slipped past me too but let's keep it real those Unsullied were probably old fat and about to be replaced .
Kevin Wells it opens up the possibility for the Golden Company to have Valyrian steel swords and the knowledge to rework it !
Thunder Clap when does it say they beat the unsullied defending Qohor? The only reference of Qohor I have heard is against the Dothraki.. in which the Dothraki killed most of them but because they did not obliterate them like Dothraki do they cut off their braids and tossed them at the few remaining Unsullied who snuck behind their lines.. even there the unsullied were beaten but to history the Dothraki consider it a loss.. I never heard of the GC defeating Unsullied unless there was like 100 of them defending Qohors gates lol
Kevin Wells ok it says the defenses of Qohor were left to the Unsullied after the Dothraki defeat.. but even after that battle there were 7,000 Dothraki left to 600 Unsullied.. I would not call it a Qohor victory if not for some Dothraki braid ritual.. then you figure if there are let's say 5,000 Unsullied defending Qohor against 10k GCs. Is it that impressive that the Gc sacked the city ? They don't admit defeat like the Dothraki did so they would fight to a man and easily outnumber the Unsullied defenses but I don't remember hearing of an Unsullied army fighting the GC here
Christopher Jordan Aziz said its only mentioned in the Asoiaf app. Qohor didn't pay GC ,GC sack city.
Christopher Jordan I think we're saying the same thing , GC sack of Qohor wasn't that impressive. And as for the 3000 of Qohor battle it was a pyrrhic victory for the Unsullied and a total victory for the Qohoric people.
Omg YES! Ive been waiting for this one 😊👏🏼
wasn't it only the fifth Blackfyre rebellion that was also known as the war of the ninepenny kings??
basically, yest. If we're getting technical (which you know we love to do) there were 4 properly named "Blackfyre Rebellions" and the War of Ninepenny Kings. Maelys was the 5th Blackfyre Pretender but the Ninepenny Kings also attacked Tyrosh and other places completely unrelated to Blackfyrfe ambitions or claims. So there's some crossover.
Just a thought for another reason the fourth rebellion (Daemon III) went so poorly.. The fighters in their prime for the Blackfyre side wouldn’t be as inspired by Bittersteel. He was still a great man, no doubt. But he was out of his prime. It’s like younger generations these days always hear about the greatness of Michael Jordan. The still see him doing things off the court and can see he’s clearly incredibly successful and must’ve been legendary at his craft. But they never saw that greatness in person. It’s harder to be motivated by a legend when you only hear stories of someone’s peak greatness. Blackfyre (the sword) would’ve certainly made up the difference if they still possessed it.
Yes!!!
why the border around your screen??
Golden skull on a spear is the Golden Company’s symbol.
hooray!
yea boi
I was listening to this in my headphones then I came back to watch the video wondering who is the women in the audio and I see no woman but now the dude in the video sounds like a woman to me but not really? huh?
so... uh.... You know
1:10:00
53 min mark sayin invading by sea is too easy to defend.. hmm ironborn.. faster on water.. debunked.. vikings did the same.
Vikings would've had a much harder time doing their thing if messenger ravens existed in the real world. :)
do you mean pidgeons? :) to my knowledge church bells was used as warnings about vikingraids.
and the ironborn are using viking tactics on the eastern shores of westeroos. so shouldnt be hard to believe that a blackphyre fleet would use allys in westeroos to help them land without the kings landing being able to muster an army and prepare the for a landing like "normandy".
anyways, really enjoy your show - really looking forward to more! youre the westeroosi version of HH!
when i get back to financial stability - ill def go and support on patron!
Aww. . At make westeros great again I had to shake my head and check when this was published. Not as funny on retrospect
I agree, I don't want reminders of the real world when I'm delving into ASOAIF either. My mistake.
@@HistoryofWesterosyou good, love what y'all doing