What If Jason and the Argonauts Had Smoother Stop-Motion?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 бер 2021
- What if the 1963 movie Jason of the Argonauts had smoother stop-motion animation for its effects scenes made by the famous Ray Harryhausen? I used an AI program to interpolate the scene to a higher frame rate to see what that would look like.
You liked a similar video I did about 1933's King Kong, so I thought I'd do a sequel of sorts. What do you think of the results?
✨ Programs used:
-I used Flowframes with RIFE to interpolate the framerate from 23.98 fps to 191.74 fps and then used FFMPEG to reduce that back to 60 fps. Flowframes is free and you can find it here: nmkd.itch.io/flowframes
I'm #captrobau and I like to make interesting videos about AI. Don't forget to like this video and subscribe to my channel if you want to see more videos like this. I regularly upload AI upscaling examples, reviews/tutorials for AI software and more. - Фільми й анімація
The Skeletons looked better, but there's something about the jerkiness of the bronze statue in the original framerate that made it more menacing.
Because it emphasized its nature an an unnaturally mobile construct?
Id have to agree with that.
@@lyokianhitchhiker because it seems to be in another time zone there's a desirable strange effect.
Exactly what I thought. I preferred the 8x skeleton but the original statue.
Uncanny valley. A rare case such trope works in it’s favor
The original of the statue works so well because that’s how I’d imagine a bronze statue to move like.
Ikr!
Couldn't agree more.
Exactly
Absolutely
you are a 100% correct
For a movie from 1963, this is still unbelievably far ahead of its time and so well done
unreal to think about. we can't even use a 10-15 year old device without getting frustrated. and they did all of thie shit in 1963!
That's what happens when people are allowed to create something to the highest quality and integrity capable. It's something all groups workin on endeavors need to understand. Your work will be diminished the minute you are forced to compromise a lot and make major concessions in your craft.
It's still one of the best stop motion sequences of all time
Even long after I forgot the name of the movie, I still had so much footage stuck in my head, particularly the skeletons and of course Gorgon who terrified the shot out of me. This movie is such a treat to 8-12 year old boys.
It’s not ahead of its time at all. In fact it’s within its time.
Blade Runner, 2001, Avatar, Inception. Those films are ahead of their time, and pushed boundaries
Proof that an active understanding of the rules of animation is more important than frames per second. Ray Harryhausen was really a great.
Harryhausen was a giant of cinema. Such an incredible innovator, these movies were nothing without him.
Also anyone who knows jack about stop motion in this era, knows the main issue wasn't the lack of frames, it was the lack of motion blur..
@@Deadener Motion blur? With 3D figures? How would you achieve that?
@@hutchmusician You wouldn't but if you do this today in CGI you add motion blurred at render, it makes everything look more realistic.
Makes you realize just how impressive this movie was when it came out. It's really not bad even on original form
Yep.
I remember watching this as a kid, I didn’t think it could get any better. This was one of the ones that blew your mind as a kid because he loves spooky stuff and then to see the skeletons come to life was amazing. This is just enhancing the heck out of it and it’s glorious.
@@AAAFilm-yt7gx Yep I was 10 in 1963, nothing better than this for a Saturday morning at the movies. Unless it was Annette- be still my heart.
@@StanKelley Holy crap, are you ME!?! ;-)
I think some are bad but for the time its great. However, the skeleton one in the end was actually pretty great
I remember a documentary years and years ago, where Ray H. intentionally made the Bronze statue move kinda herky jerky to show that he was in fact made of metal. Both look great, but I prefer the original tbh.
Agreed!
I agree. Smoothing makes it look like a dude in a suit. The jerky movements for the statue makes sense. I think the smoothing works great for the other parts.
I agree, prefer the original
Same!
He wouldastill have liked this option though, i am sure.
It does convince me the most effective effects mix the pratical and digital, these minitures had weight, CGI often doesnt.
the jerky stop motion is a huge part of the charm and depth of the characters. they are all much more menacing in the original, especially the bronze giant and skeletons. they just felt other-worldly and trigger the uncanny valley enough to make you uneasy just looking at them. and all these years later, this still holds up incredibly well. it gives me just the same feeling now at 35 as it did when i was 6. i love it
Yeah, the reference points for the interpolation are still jerky stop-motion references, so the interpolated animation feels a bit off.
But it works really well for the skeleton fight.
Came to say this!!
@@HappyBeezerStudios Yeah, the effectiveness of the interpolation is really a testament to the quality of the original animation, looks far better than the attempts making anime and cartoons smoother.
I guess it's up to preference because i'd rather pick the smoothed ones. It just looks better imo
As someone who just watched for the first time at 30 years old- just know you're not blinded by nostalgia, it totally holds up even to someone with an outside perspective.
It’s not the frame rate that’s the issue. It’s the inconsistencies between many of the poses. Which is not to disparage Harryhausen at all - the team did amazing things with the tech available at the time. But filling in the “missing” frames doesn’t accomplish much because the creatures still jump around and move in unnatural ways. Adding frames doesn’t solve that issue, and in many ways exacerbates it
Yeah, adding frames like this just makes it more noticeable..
I would take this over the CGI of the 2000 remake any day. While unnatural it still seems really alive. The new CGI remake was flat and dull and nowhere near as creepy.
Maybe unnatural but still alive looking is a perfect combo
Let's see the AI touch-up
@@001variation I believe you're looking at (ghost animator) David Anderson, Willis Cook and Ray harryhausen AI touch up. 😅
Yeah I’m not sure why everyone’s takeaway seems to be that there’s some sort of superiority in the lower-framerate footage.
If this footage was filled with 120 *meaningful* frames per second, 120 unique frames of fluid movement from the figure, I think it would look much better.
However, taking the original and just putting it at 120 frames per second is like playing Nintendo 64 on a 4k TV-the more advanced technology is not leveraged, and the so the output is worse.
The original bronze statue was intentionally made to have stilted animation in order to simulate metal having a tough time deforming in order to move. Ray even expressed his frustration with executives that couldn't understand this.
if metal deforms it hardens and eventually breaks. the executives were right
@@Blox117 yea and irl statues don’t come alive.
Its not about stiffness but smoothness
Ps it still looks stiff
I dunno, the Terminators move around just fine
@@Dilaudid281 terminators have joints
Funnily enough it’s the slightly jerky animation that gives its the terrifyingly timeless appeal
Particularly the skeletons.
Loved the original jerkiness of Talos, I thought it suited someone who may not have moved for decades, not sure on his feet. All the Ray HH films still fill me with wonder, there is something mythic about them that a lot of modern films, with better special effects just don't have, they seem, 'over-real'.
True.
However, when I look at the comparison, I can easily see the age of the movie and to see the smoother stopmotion makes it seem like the original work was way ahead of its time in the visual effects aspect. It gives it another vibe that is also interesting.
Same with the original terminator movie
Agreed, it feels so much more menacing that way
The scene with the boat and statue behind looks menacing in the original. Smoothing it out somehow makes it stand out more that it is a blue screen effect.
The statue is so terrifying. What a cool scene!
Blows my mind that they achieved this in 400AD, just crazy.
I would be impressed too...as 400AD was after the fall of the ROMAN Western Empire.
....more like 1200BC
It must have been the wind
@@brokeandtired yeah, duh. It was a period piece. Like Mad Men to us.
Saying this happened in 400AD is like saying the Middle ages happened in 2020
It is a testament to Harryhausen's genius that the higher frame rate really doesn't make the animation look any better.
true!! i take the original. i see very little difference.
Exactly. The only slight improvements are the gargoyles and the skeletons when they are fighting, but it's minimal at best.
I’m glad someone said it, because i was thinking that very thing myself. The only difference i could see, especially with the skeletons, was that their movements were faster with the higher frame rate. I’ve always liked liked Ray Harryhausen’s work, always
Agree.
Looks worse overall cause looks even more fake. Like bad 3D models overlaid because you can see where the green screened out the monsters and people more.
It does add a realism but it really shows how amazing Ray Harryhausen was. Without modern technique was able to create something so close. Legend.
The effects have aged incredibly well
The original shots of that statue still hold up. I can only imagine how impressive that was back then.
I remember seeing it on the "Big Screen", paying something like $1.50 to get into the matinee. Man that was impressive Ray Harryhausen was the George Lucius of his time. All the classics "had to have Harry" doing the stop animation. It was brutal work, time consuming, but when they finished, you really knew in your heart that colossus was coming for you. It was going to come out of the screen and get you. If it was Harryhausen you made sure to take your crap before going into the theater.
Not only the movie itself but most theatres of that day were large gold leaf ornate interiors with a huge balcony. An organ player played a large pipe organ before and after the shows. The seats were red velvet and there were box seats up along the sides. There were cartoons first before the main show and an intermission to hit the can and buy more stuff from the concessions. The sound systems were surround sound and loud. A 10 cent bus ride got your there. A whole day of adventure for young kids.
@@bobwallace9814 We didn't have the organ, and we had a good sound system it wasn't surround sound yet; The THX sound hadn't made it to us. but the rest yes, they were built as "stages" and the screens could be lowered and tied in place, and you could actually walk behind the screen on the stage. Those were they days, 10 cent boxes of candies. Juju bees were the best, they lasted the longest.
In my animation class my professor used this movie as an example of good animation even when frames are limited. Then he found a shot from a stop motion movie that's godaweful simply because someone who wasn't good at animation worked on the shot. It is amazing!
Idk, i don't like it but for those poor fictional effects it works good
Trying to imagine the effort and time that went into making the original. Damn!
Yeah they had to build like a 100ft statue out of iron, not only that but they had to mold it to look like humanoid. And to move that thing, holy shit idk how they pulled that off, maybe with helicopters idk
yeah that why it still holding its value till this day. when most of new movies in this day...well.........trash.
lol I just watched your video about dave mustaine's 22 guitar techniques
@@jakabok226 you know it's just a miniature they compose into the shot right?
@@lenonel3286 you know he's probably joking right?
I think Ray Harryhausen would agree, the jerkiness of large objects definitely gave it mass thus making it more scary, also the jerkiness worked better with the skitterish of the skeletons, but everything else looks like a huge improvement. RIP Harryhausen you were a movie wizard.
The genius of Ray Harryhausen. Not just a technical wizard but truly an awesome performer; he is ‘playing’ all of those stop motion characters, imbuing them with life and spirit so memorable they influenced everything that came after. Incredible.
The slightly unnatural movement of the monsters is what makes them so great and distinct.
Totally agree
Agreed.
The smooth version loses all sense of menace, at least for me.
Don’t like the smooth version at all the original one the shuttery movement of them and an unreal nature and a real weight to them
Exactly that was the magic of stop motion
I think the appeal of the original is just how 'jerky' the movements of things are. Its that unnatural jerkiness that makes the monsters that much more terrifying
Exactly that sir!
Plus it makes a lot more sense for monsters like the Colossus to be stiff moving, as he's made of metal.
That’s exactly what I thought. The mechanical movements reminds me of antique terminators. But the bigger question is how this video was recommended to me...
The only one improved is the skeleton fight imo
i find both versions creepy for different reasons..
Before Star Wars THIS was the movie that blew people's minds.
Harryhausen is a legend.
The smoother version just feels like something I’d see in an adult swim short.
The jerky movements give a creepy and supernatural feel to the 'monsters" in this movie
It’s probably the Uncanny Valley effect.
Yeah, the staccato movement of the stop motion makes it feel like there's an unnatural force imposing itself on the natural world in a violent fashion, and the smoother animation just makes it look like an awkward metal man who hasn't moved in a while so he's a bit stuff and needs some time to loosen up... Which really takes the edge off of it.
I agree. Like they are forced to move in a world that is supernatural to them ( the skeletons)
Exactly, this isn’t an improvement, it’s a slap in the face to artistic intent
That’s the magic 🪄 of special effects lol 😂 it is so life like 👍🏿 🍿🥤🎬🎥😎😍.
The smoother effects kind of look neat, but, at the same time, it makes the creatures look more like they aren't actually there.
Cool not alone in thinking that
I agree.
It literally looks the exact same to me but as the title says "smoother" it still looks clunky but a little smoother.
So does the original tho, its just more even movement
Yeah the smoother version looks a lot more fake despite being smoother, probably because it's AI
No wonder why people in 1963 were amazed from this movie. It’s amazing and it fits the story too well.
You managed to take something that was great and make it ok.
Kudos.
the skeleton movement was actually pretty good in both original and 8X
I remember reading somewhere that the skeleton fight scene took like 3 months to complete
both look the same
Jason and the Argonauts (original) had some top notch special effects for the day.
@@Novusod Yeah my understanding was when it came to the Greek action film craze it was clash of titans for the best movie but Jason and the argonauts for special effects.
Hell yeah it is harry is amazing at this stuff
My God, the special effects of this movie are incredible for being from '63
The soundtrack as well. The use of atonal effects is really effective.
"Must have been the wind"
Screeeeech BWWUAAA BWUAAAA
nah fuck that.
Hola, Piña 😬👌
@@Massivecarcrash Don't forget the percussions with the skeletons
Estás en todos los canales, piña
Jesus loves you!
One movie i used to enjoy seeing my dad watch. Rip pops
Ha. Interesting. Also, haven't seen this in forever and was surprised to feel that same terrified, nightmarish, almost sick feeling I got when I first saw this as a kid. Thanks for the memories!
The second that statue turns his head is terrifying at any speed.
Especially with the creeking sound effect!
Yeah I forgot how creepy that one scene is. Wtf happened to movies these days lmao
Yeah, that head turn awakened some long-repressed terror, yikes.
Yessssssss this is pure horror
@@stonewallperformance the really brutal brass music that kicks in when he turns is what really gets me
I know this was supposed to show how video software technology can improve stuff, but damn this just made appreciate the original more. I can't imagine how much insane work and effort they had to put into this
Improve is a bit strong, the retouched version looks faker than the original.
Are you sure that was the point? I thought the point was to show how the original is better and freakier
Something curious....I actually saw the original footage as appearing more "real" than the higher frame rate. The figures seemed more solid and had apparent mass...and genuinely seem more convincing.
These higher frame rates and extreme definitions may be a mistake...Is lack of motion blur to blame?
I do know that I feel the cinema projections of most of the Marvel films look great on the big screen. But when these same films are on a 4K television, everything looks plastic-like, phony, and not convincing at all. I hate 4k.
They need to put a resolution dial on these tvs.
Totally agree
Yeah, usually these things look better with the original FPS because of the way the animators intended it to look. In this case I can barely see the difference.
Edit: after watching in higher video quality, I can say I think the original is better.
The original definitely suited the Statue better because it's a heavy, massive thing and jerky movements convey that better. The smoother version suits the creatures and skeletons more though because it makes them seem more otherworldly
I remember as a child being obsessed with the skeletons at the end and wanting them as action figures 😂
I'm glad the "it must have been the wind" line started with this classic
It's really about to bring a whole smile to my face as I play Skyrim again...
This is one of those rare time when I have to say the original actually looks and feels better...
Except the flying ones
@@Yasviele sort of. That brought another problem by making them look cgi and not well blended to the frame
The original has a natural jerkiness to the movement which makes sense with the statue and skeletons, the higher frame rate looks like its slowed down and stiffened, like a smooth action purposely made stiff. Where as the original its feels like the statue is naturallly creaky.
The smoothed up version looks like I’m watching a news report of a school play. Older movies (and new ones) work so much better at the slower frame rates. Modern TV’s that adjust the rate like this for “better” sports viewing make most films unwatchable. I always turn the “smoothing / frame rate feature off” no film should look like a live news reel.
Agreed.
Thank you for showing me what I've wondered for over 20 years
Ray Harryhausen was a legend. This movies art direction was really cool.
I think this is important to know: The jerkiness of the original animation is not caused by low framerate; after all the framerate of the animation is the same as of the live action footage. It is actually caused by lack of motion blurr - it's just series of photographs of static objects. So if you want the animation to appear smoother and more lifelike, what you need is to add a little bit of motion blurr, appropriate to te speed of depicted movements. This is, afaik, what they did way later in Ghostbusters, when they were able to actually move the animated objects a little bit during the time of exposure of each frame.
ED-209 in RoboCop used some motion blur as well.
@@j0anr0ch That was the first time I ever noticed them trying to add motion blur to stop motion. Wasn't perfect, but still looked really good
It sounds similar to the smears in 2D animation
Alien³ was animated in Go-motion, but everyone confused it for shitty CGI.
The animation is NOT the same framerate. Look at the shot in the boat and go frame by frame, you can see that they're different framerates. The reason it still looks like it does is because it interpolated between frames that look the same. So still every 2nd frame or whatever is mostly the same as the one before.
I think the jerkiness adds something of the uncanny valley to them. It makes them scarier and is more atmospheric. This film is so good
Absolutely true
Oh enough of this stupid god damn word. 'Atmosphere' this and atmoshit that, it's honestly grating. Come up with a different word for fucks sake.
Jason and the Argonauts is a masterpiece. Along with Seventh Voyage of Sinbad and Clash of the Titans it’s one of Harryhausen’s best films.
For me, it is the higher frame rate that makes them seem uncanny. That’s the case for me with all media with a higher frame rate that aren’t UA-cam videos of modern people talking about random stuff. I think my eyes are too used to the old frame rate.
I first saw Jason and the Argonaunts when I was 3. Was fascinated about ancient civilizations, legends, and history ever since. I'm 35 now.
I must say the original looks fantastic and the feeling of dread it projects is genuine.
One of the greatest movies ever made and the reason so many got involved in Special Effects in the first place.
There's a certain charm to these stop animation effects that hold up well to this day. Must have been mind-blowing to see this in the cinema back in the day.
Yeah. They outdid even CGI up until fairly recently.
It was.
Yep, it was (:
I'll add another "it was". Really scary!
It's mind blowing seeing it today
It's interesting how much the "smoothing" takes away from that sense of weight in the original. Goes to show how much effort and intention went into making those effects feel like they belonged in the world.
Agreed, the original is better.
Yeah just smoothing something doesn't make it better. It would need extra keyframes to actually look good in 60fps.
no it doesnt dawg 😭 bro js saying stuff
@@Kaaos_ I mean, obviously it's subjective, but I stand by my original comment.
I think it really helps in some scenes like the skeletons fighting. The others make it really obvious how out of place the effects are, by taking the jarring stop motion out. You can tell how "cutout" the creatures are when it's so smooth like that and when the creatures have that very jittery movement its hard to focus on them. If you could play with the interpolation to make it less smooth during the really "cutout" moments it would look great. I still think the skeleton fighting scene looks MUCH better with this smoothing.
Omg! Childhood dream come true! Thank you so much! I wish we had visual effects like these nowadays...
If you're wondering, the statue is making the same move, but the video was altered to be on a high frame rate
I don’t know why, but by making it smoother, it almost makes it like one of those cheesy 3D animation attempts that fails to make it realistic.
It's a prime example of the Uncanny Valley.
As a whole we all got used to shitty 24 fps for "cinematic reasons of immersion" when the human eye is so much better.. even cheap walmart TVs are 120hz. Movie business is lazy
Something about the harpies made me think of those old '90s-era FMV light-gun arcade games. I guess it's the same idea of them trying to get live actors to react to animated monsters they're planning to add in later.
Whatever the reason, a bullet counter on the side of the screen and a score tally at the top would fit right in.
You have to give Harryhausen his due... he was damn talented!
And he did all of that without a computer.
@@Skelly5962 Incredible really
Yes - total legend.
@@Skelly5962 oh look someone complaining about CGI , there's a surprise. Can't we just have both?
The Shiva statue in Sinbad I consider his most epic creation...
The greatness of Ray Harryhausen's work is that he did it himself, by hand, frame by painstaking frame. His creations act, emote, become characters. That is why they work so well. That will never stop people from thinking they can "improve" his animation. Leave Ray alone.
The original has a place in my heart. The smoother version seams wrong. Like the magic is to good ❤😂
For a movie made 58 years ago ,the effects are awesome
58 (.ish). either that or I'm younger than I thought I was.
It came out in 1963.
Honestly looks better than most CG crap today
@@martinzwaan2721 yes you are correct
@@AA-db9cb uhm, no. Lmao
Very interesting how the original versions feel somewhat heavier, more impressive, threatening, strong, dynamic, and even more natural!
Even the live action feels better at 24fps, curious
That's because motion smoothing technology is not creating frames as if it were shot at a higher framerate--it is artificially smoothing the lower framerate. Motion smoothing is hideous.
@@prancey227 How does it do that if not by inserting transitional frames?
maybe on the statues, but as for the gorgoyles and skeletons it is much smoother (the feeling too).
Nope, they feel worse.
I bet this blew peoples minds back in the 60s. It actually holds up pretty well I think
Wow that looks amazing.
Look closely at the skeleton sword fight -- the sword swings are perfectly synced with the swings of the actors. What they accomplished in this one shot back in 1963 with no computers, CGI, roto-scoping, etc is mind blowing.
In an interview Ray H explained that the actors and scene had already been filmed and he had to match the motion of the actors. In most films it was done in reverse because of the long lead time needed for the stop motion effects.
@@glenchapman3899 That's still how it's done today, even with CGI. Any kind of special effect, whether it be stop motion or CG, is done "in post." That is, post-filming of actors, scenery, etc.
The main reason of course is that FX artists can use the footage for reference when setting up their own shots. It would be virtually impossible to shoot the effects first and then try to shoot an actor syncing to the effects, because neither party has anything to go on.
My OP was referring to how, in a time when compositing tools consisted largely of, "OK how do we do this?," the FX shots were overlayed on the actor footage in perfect sync.
@@sixstanger00 Though it was more common to not integrate the footage with stop motion. The times it was tried it usually looked all wrong. With exception of RH. Even Willis Obrien, who taught RH the trade preferred to back project the stop motion for that reason.
I remember watching this movie as a kid. A fantastic memory! ✔
Me too....
I had nightmares as a child after seeing the statue scene.
i watch this in class highschool mid 90s
Jason and the Argonauts, Clash of the Titans... Great stuff.
I agree 👍☺️❤️
Really good idea. Cool results.
The sound when the statue turns it's head is pretty scary and proper. At first it sounds like a SFX but then it turns into a menacing melody.
This gives me so much respect for the people who accomplished this back then.
Person, it was one man that did the special effects, Mr. Ray Harryhausen.
You should see the effects in The Thing, the original. Not the prequel. Or check out The Fly with Jeff Goldblum. Really good practical effects and some stop motion here and there.
It looks amazing smoother. Really can appreciate how ahead of its time this was. Reminds me of certain portraits hanging in the gallery. Some of them are so sharp and clear, they look like photographs 😳
Totally agree. I wish I could fight skeletons and stuff.
@@Deadma6 I'm used to the original, but can appreciate innovation and change. If we saw these things in real life they would all move smooth 🤷🏿♂️.
It’s amazing how they were able to do this all before CGI. There’s something really special about stop motion
Though even old CGI has its charm, seeing the brilliance and ingenuity that has to go into the tricks used to pull off what they did back in the day.
LOTR developer diaries is certainly an interesting watch in that subject.
The fact that someone stood there and put heart and soul into manually moving the figures in a way that felt right to their eye for every single frame is whole different thing to scripting some movements in a piece of software and wandering off for a frappucino while it renders.
It was _amazing_ special effects for that time! I watched this when I was about five and was so terrified by the skeletons fighting, especially, that I remember it clearly today.
I haven’t seen it since, so I’ll have to watch it with my husband now, fifty years later, to see how it compares to my memory!
The low frames make it look more scary, somehow
@@PutItAway101 Animations on software can also be hand moved to each individual frame. That’s not with motion capture or scripting.
It's fun for me to get into the mindset of seeing the animations as cutting edge visual effects that barely existed at the time, even though they look wonky relative to what movies we're used to seeing today.
Remember my grade 7 teacher showing us this movie. I thought it was so coolest thing. Then that Christmas The LoTR came out and it changed my life forever lol.
Can we just appreciate how minimal the change is with the skeletons when it’s 8x smoother, that hard work really shows in this 60 years later!!!ray harryhausen was a legend
I really can barely tell a difference.
I was going to say the same. The original is still impressive. The amount of detail in the movement you almost forget it’s stop motion.
666th upvote. Hail Satan.
ALWAYS original over these socalled improvements.
Just look at how the first 3 Star wars movies were 'improved'. 🤣🤣🤣
I watched both the original and x8 and I thought I was still watching the original and they just reused a scene, it really shows how good it is
That moment when Talos turns his head to look at Hercules is one of cinemas great sphincter-loosening moments at any frame rate.
Indeed it is. It terrified me as ask kid and it didn't change to much viewing it now
Wow, they did an awesome job with this movie back in the day!
I still get goosebumps from that original bronze statue when it turns around and looks at the man. You can't improve on that.
If you make fantasy too real, I think, it loses the quality of a nightmare.. of a dream
-Ray Harryhausen
just what came to mind when I was watching, Ray was never going after make believe, but rather creating a fantasy
I'm convinced a lot of modern film makers are just repeating techniques they like, but don't understand why they like them or how/why the techniques work.
I know that was a quote, but you just put into words the jumble of impressions and feelings I have inside me about ultra realistic imagery on screen. I could never arrange it into communicable terms. Thanks for sharing this quote.
That’s just justifying crappy sfx.
My god that is a perfect sentence to create suspension of disbelief.
Can we take a moment to respect the hard work that went in to these old special effects? Can you imagine seeing it in the theater and watching a GIANT STATUE come to life? Must have been amazing.
Oh it was! Talos stayed in my brain for a LONG time after seeing it as a kid in the theater. I can still always call up the screech of metal in my mind when I think of the scene. Brilliantly done. His ankle leaking and him falling over was burned into my brain.
Terrifying. For my five year old self it was utterly terrifying. I screamed in the theater and then had nightmares for weeks after. So, I guess that means the special effects were quite effective and my folks were idiots.
Still is. Practical effects and physical objects look better than CGI to me, and I'm not knocking the talent required to make good CGI. I just prefer practical effects.
It was amazing indeed!; I was 9 years old when my father left me ALONE at the cinema while he was at the pool salon and bar with his friends; it was in 73, at a small-town theater where they exhibited double features of older movies or new b movies, many times one of them was a kung fu and the other a Hollywood produced one; that night I had to sleep with my older sister because that damn statue scared the soul out of my body! lolol. I watched, as a child, alone, movies like Dog Day Afternoon, Westworld, Planet of the Apes, The Crimson Pirate, with Burt Lancaster (one of my favorite movies ever, I have it in DVD!), Seven Samurai, The Way of the Dragon, Fist of Fury and many more. You can NOT leave a child one minute alone these days...those were the times!!!
@@luishernandez5732 Indeed they were! All those terrific Saturday matinee movies!
The brief reassuring silence followed by the shrill groan of metal is perfect.
Those skeletons in the original scene where absolutely fantastic i was not expecting that
Can you imagine moving the doll a thousand times to create a 10 second scene?! These guys were gods!
yes, thats how stopmotion works
*All hail Robot Chicken!*
I hear you. Lots of tedious effort to make these movies happen.
@@zacharyrollick6169 Exactly my thought
10 seconds that we still watch 50 years later.
And it's actually better than some CGI now.
The old one looks more like it’s breaking the laws of space and time to come after you, and therefore more scary.
Agreed, the "jerkiness" was part off the character. It added to the magic.
@@TinTeddyVideos I find it is quite the opposite. Give me CG any day
Yes!
CG isn't real, these Harryhausen originals were actual real solid things. The difference is lost on these modern days. I'll keep the handcraft, personally.
@@MSTL144 real doesn't mean better. Just keep that in mind? Sure everyone may want practical effects but if it looks terrible or low budget than what's the point? Time and effort wasted with no pay off. Same goes for cg
One of my all time fave stop motion films!
Now with the 8x smoother it looks like a actual actor trying to act as a bronze statue
The smoother ones fall too much into “uncanny valley” territory
I was thinking the same thing.
I think it's a fricking disaster. Motion-smoothing Harryhausen is as stupid as colorizing a classic B&W Hollywood movie.
Smoothing the Colossus worked nicely, it adds to the sense if size and mass, but the others didn't seem to help a great deal, and the harpies suddenly looked like they were CGI on a separate plate floating above the action. Terrible! Even the skeletons looked slightly less "real" after treatment, their background fringing and colouration not quite matching the film frame. :-(
Additionally when the smoothing overlaps camera movement instead of just the animation. The natural tracking of the camera designed to accentuate action and energy is lost.
I thought uncanny valley had to do with cgi and humans. Doesn't really work the same with statues and Harpy's does it?
Ray Harryhausen was a legend. He'd go off for months at a time and hide himself in a room to animate all of this stuff. The dedication is almost supernatural.
They wanted them to do
Jurassic Park
and wouldn't even think about making a "how to" YT video for views and sponsorship...
He would even unplug his phone so he wouldn't be disturbed. Can't say as I blame him, some of these sequences are very complex and gotta be done right the first time.
IT IS SUPERNATURAL!! He used Alchemy to bring the clay to LIFE!!! ……..the best!!!!!
One of the greatest films. The effects were outstanding.
when i was very young all the bad movies effects were scaring me so much. Most creepy being stop motion , and weird incrustrations.
Choppy slow motion isn’t always bad, sometime it helps make something feel eerie and inhuman. (Evil dead and evil dead 2 are main examples)
Shop Smart..
Shop S MART.
YOU GOT THAT!
Man I really miss movies like this. They had such an epic feel to them.
Why do you miss them? Can't you just watch them any time?
@@fighthighlights2201 Sure if you can find them. For me though movies nowadays just don't have the same quality to them.
@@fighthighlights2201 I think that what he means is that there should be more of them.
Dune 2021 had some of that epic feel to it, though movie making has changed to more close-ups and less long hold wide angle shots like the older epics like Ben Hur, Zulu, or Jason and the Argonauts. Back then, they'd stay on those shots of large groups of people doing exciting things for a long time, which makes the scope seem much larger in scale, but nowadays it's a quick wide angle to set the scene then straight in to quick edit close-ups of the overpaid actors - the studios want to get their money's worth by using the actors in as many close and detailed shots as they can.
@@justinkashtock333 That was a very good acessment of what's happening.
Thank you, well done.
This movie looks awesome. Totally gonna watch it later.
This smoothing effect always give me this uncanny feeling. There is something wrong in the way it smooths the frames - makes things too even, and gets lost on key frames.
Yeah it's interpolation, so it's trying to automatically create or "paint" in-between frames that don't exist. Guessing what would be there. That's why it'll often feel even worse than material natively made in 60fps, like video games.
It's just that just are not used to see it. Especially if you were shown the original right before it will feel out of place.
@@christopherstein2024 Not at all.
Look at the fragments Akira or Little Mermaid which were animated in 60fps and they lack this uncanny feel. Look at most modern video games where at least 60fps is standard.
That is the issue with frame interpolation being applied across the board - it kills the momentum, evens the tempo of animation even in places where it is not needed, because it is incapable of distinguishing between key frames.
I haven't seen the original, and I thought the animation for the statues was a massive improvement. I know others are complimenting the charm of the jerkiness, but for me, without having the context of the full movie, it just seemed as a downside that was improved upon by the smooth FPS. Perhaps I'd appreciate it more having seen the movie, but I speak as somebody who hasn't seen this film. Is it 100% Perfect? No, but I view it less janky and jerky than the original.
I noticed it on the flying creatures, I don’t know much about the technology used but it looked like they cgi them. Something was just wrong about the way it looked.
When he turns his head it, still gives me chills! This movie was a classic.
Years ago a building I used to visit had an elevator that used to make weird scrapping noises when you went up. Every time I heard that scrap, my mind jumped straight to this very scene.
Well if it was a classic that implies it no longer is a classic so I would say that it is a classic.
@@notinterested8452 I stand corrected.
It was terrifying as a kid.
I agree Jason , and hope you find your Argonauts.
The origin of, "Must have been the wind."
I don't see enough of a noticeable difference to even pick this up if I were watching it in the movie back to back.
Ok but it's wild how good ray harryhousens animation was to begin with
Agreed the best never to be forgotten
It's because he was an artist, with the eye to see how things could be, should be and would be, and then made it happen. He was supposed to be bastard to work for in his exactness, but when it was all finished everyone felt the joy and pride of doing something that has held up to this day.
He was the absolute master.
@@eyellgeteven9928 Anyone who wanted to be a animation master, studied his movies. Like that is some punishment, "Thank you sir, may I have another movie.".
@@bobh.6108 Haha, no doubt.
My Dad was a cinematography prof for a while, and he loved Harryhausen. He took me to see Jason sometime in the early 70's, and at one point he set up a primitive stop motion animation studio for my sister and I to use. Also taught us ho to edit / splice film.
Ray was the best.
nice
Is your Father still alive? I always wondered what the creator of such special effects opinion of AI/Neural Network enhanced Framerates would be. Do they approve? If they had the tools back then, would they have done a better job? And if possible some kind of Frame by Frame analysis describing the original fottage and its errors/limitations and what the enhanced version fixed/made worse.
I would appreciate anyones input ofc!
@@G4m3G3ni3 Inserting my personal opinion as someone in the industry today (for what it's worth), I imagine they would've absolutely loved it if it was indeed available to them. They were basically just people trying to get by with the tools and techniques they had on hand at the time. (That said, I would love to hear their own insights and perspectives on it.)
I loved my dad, who of course was the best dad ever. That said, your old man sounds awesome.
Awesome. One of the best. Steve 👍
Blows my mind how well done stop motion can still look "better",more interesting/ visually engaging, than alot of the cg we get today.
It’s because the special effects in movies are overdone. When you need to rely on real models, you have an easier time staying in the story and convincing yourself that what your seeing is real. Even the dinosaurs in the original Jurassic Park movie, because they didn’t often fill the screen with digitized dinosaurs, the movie could trick your mind into thinking there was really a dinosaur there. When you load the screen up with too much digitization, your mind, whether it’s in story mode or not, starts to call BS.
@@frederickdefeo3768 I agree 100%
@@frederickdefeo3768 exactly, thats why the original lotr trilogy looked way better since it was made 95% with real props, except for the balrog and gollum. The hobbit looked just unreal and bullshitty cgi, except maybe for smaug.
There's a fundamental concept in filmmaking & storytelling in general that took me forrrrever to properly appreciate which is also likely **beyond** antiquated to the status quo of film production sensibilities: LESS IS MORE!!! It's not some fix-all Golden Rule or something, but the fact that you reeeeeally have to keep your eyes peeled now for examples of films that make use of the inherent virtues that idea has in abundance which can easily be the difference between a goodgreatmasterpiece-level film/filmmaker....
I agree. Stop-motion and 120 fps looks real than cgi
I like the Stop-Motion effect it somehow makes the monsters more creepy/scary.
Same here. These effects are yet better for the living dead
dude they still make me tremble with fear
I prefer the "jerkiness" of the original. It reinforces the fact that these objects are not "alive", but merely animated, like a marionette. In the movie, the Talas statue does not become a living being, but a magically animated supernatural object.
@@ritparent7239oath, plus the jaggering and juttering make them quick and unpredictable- which is terrifying
A timeless prodigy that CGI of today can' beat. Art cinema in capitals.
super smooth!!
I think the original animation should be kept for just the statue. It's made entirely out of metal with no actual moving parts like joints or hinges, the jerkiness makes sense for it.
Defo. I also think the jerkiness also conveys the sense of sheer weight.
@@moviearchaeologist9655 I think the mass should lend to it being less jerky, due to conservation of momentum and all.
The stuttering animation makes it look more real and more outworldly at the same time.
I know it’s a paradox but that’s how I feel it !
It’s called strobing.
It gives a horror vibe while the smoother one a more friendly impression/more sane character.
Maybe the last one works better for children programs/friendly scenes
I agree. I really liked the strobing as a kid, before I had the vocabulary to describe what I was seeing. It's "unreal" as opposed to "less real".
@@roddmatsui3554
Thank you for the precision (english is not my first language 😅) !
easy to say with nostalgia glasses
That looks dope
I have produced a couple of TV commercials that have included stop-motion animation. It took us a week to get 7 seconds of film. So it never fails when I see this Harryhausen masterpiece I am in total awe. I bow down to the master of the technique! 🎬🧡
This and the original Clash of the Titans are two if my all time favorite films. Love Ray Harryhousen movies.
Old school stop motion is not for the faint hearted. The creators of South Park found that out as they made the first pilot ep from construction paper.
The way Harryhausen was able to blend his miniature work with the live action footage is genius. It is perfect as is.
He perfected the art of Dynamation, it's why I loved studying his work on University! He was a revolutionary animator!