I went shopping for a house, I told the realtor that I didn't want a HOA. The first house that they showed was in a HOA. I fired the realtor right there.
This is actually a good way to determine if your real estate agent is competent and listening to what you want to buy rather than what they have to sell.
Could you fire the real estate agent though if you signed a written agreement? I thought buyer's agency agreements are required now. Though absolutely, if your agent sucks, you should be able to get rid of them and get a new one. As for HOAs, I learned about them when I moved from a condo in Germany to a house in the Deep South. Figured I make the best of the heat and humidity by planting a watermelon garden. Was told that even digging a hole in the ground was against the rules, which was quite shocking really, with all that empty land around all the houses.
@@MeowImageswhat area are you in? When my sister was shopping around she didn’t sign anything but basic papers to cover the agency’s ass. She wasn’t bound to them and could go somewhere else whenever she wanted, she only couldn’t use a different realtor at the same time.
@@MeowImages , if you need to sign one of those just to see some properties, find another realtor. Seller pays the commission for the listing and both agents split it (generally 6% but the seller can negotiate). Our last one kept trying to get us to sign one to add an additional 10% paid by us as their additional broker commission *after we were under contract*-lucky to not have been fired on the spot (after I told them to stop sending it to me for signature with the other paperwork), never again. Amount of work done, a few house showings, lol. Rule of thumb, realtors are worse than used car salesmen, by and large; read every disclosure twice including the ones at closing and be wary of any changes.
You are under no obligation to sign any paper work. Don’t sign anything. They will sneak into the fine print that they are owed a commission in whatever time period whether you find the house through them or not. Just tell them that only the houses that they show you will they get the commission, if the seller agrees.
Neighbor puts beat up trucks in his front yard on cinderblocks, then builds five apartment units in his backyard, the units overlooking your backyard. THEN you will want an HOA.
@TurdFerguson149 are you saying that my property, 2800 square foot main house, 900 square foot guest house, 30X30 barn, set on 6 3/4 acres 2 miles from a major lake is valued less than a 1500 square foot house on a 1/2 acre because it's in an HOA?
My cousin lives in a neighborhood with an HOA. He wanted to put a storage shed in the backyard to store his lawn equipment and asked for permission. HOA said no and to refer to the bylaws. He did and they clearly stated prior permission is required for (among other things) any exterior structure EXCEPT for playhouses. He stores his lawn equipment in his playhouse now.
@@Strideo1 probably, it's a "playhouse" if used for "play", and it's a "shed" if used for equipment storage. I wouldn't go around boasting if I were the cousin.
Yeah yeah yeah. The reality is there are 2 percent difficult hoa offices and 90 percent difficult people as neighbors. It’s far worse to have an infestation driving your property value down but yes, it can be a mafia so watch out. Like anything else it can help you or kill you in different doses.
we live in a condo and actually had a board member call my doctor's office and ask if i "really need a service dog" (i have a progressive neuro condition and am in a power wheelchair since 2016). this sort of overreaching behavior shouldn't be tolerated of ANY group.
that same person then contacted the breeder of the service dog organization to see if my dog was really from them. Then suggested I don't REALLY need a service dog, because they had seen my spouse walking the dog alone without me. the breeder actually had to explain that disabled people might need help taking care of their service animal. it just blows my mind how nosy and controlling people on a board or HOA can be.
@@colorbugoriginals4457 there are also HIPPA regulations that say someone's medical information can be shared. The doctor and trainer should have said nothing.
Thats because the only people who run for HOA boards are incredibly bored with nothing else going on in their life so they need to meddle in the lives of others and be involved in everyone else's business. Start a stamp collection and leave the rest of us the hell alone.
All condos would be under some sort of HOA. You are not going to be able to buy a condo, apartment in a building without some sort of HOA. Even if the name is called something else it is the same as a HOA.
@300zxturbo Forcing people to accept a HOA in order to have housing is an affront to liberty. Just like union participation needs to be optional, HOA participation needs to be optional.
@@lilsheba1 Because it's cheaper than renting, especially if you buy at the bottom of the market. I live in a beach town and lots of condo owners here pay their mortgage, condo fees, and all other costs for the whole year by renting it out for three or four months in the winter.
@@TBagr this is not a privacy issue. This is about her modifying the exterior of her door, which is common property. She can install cameras on the inside facing out with no problem. The expectation of privacy is irrelevant here.
I live in a condo as a renter and had a crazy neighbor who was a board member vandalizing and stealing from me. Cops told me to put up a camera. When I did, crazy neighbor tried to challenge me. I lobbied all the other board members and they kicked crazy off the board and wrote me a special letter allowing my camera to stay.
That's the former hoa near me. I own and live on 50 acre of land 2 acres has my home and fields then rest I left as woods. Well an hoa sprung up and wanted me to join I said no. I let them rent my private road with the rules of I'm not joining and pis me off and you loss all rights to use my road thill they got thers up which never did ans will come to play later. Had my lawyer draw it up to make it leagal and to have it in legalese say that. Well I'm at work they have a tree company cut down all my trees and we're in the process of splitting it up into lots. Note both crews were there at the same time. I locked my fience since I didnt call them called the my lawyer and cops. The hoa said it's there land but couldn't provide the land boundaries which I had. Before we had our court date they offered to by the land and road. Just note since they never made another road the people who love there and the tree guys stuff is still on my land since it was criminal amount of money value of damages well past a million usd just in lumber since 75% of the trees were old growth hard wood some of which over 30 feet high a 3 feet thick. At court they kept saying they bought the land I was a member etc but they didn't even bring any documents with the tree guys siding with them with there contract to clear cut. Since it was admint they screwed up and go bankrupt or try and save face and hope they won so don't have to go bankrupt. Well the hoa and tree people have to put the land back as it was. But since they can't they have to pay an arborist to take care of the few surviving trees and to plant and take care the rest. The hoa and tree guys are now bankrupt. With the hoa and members can't sell there homes or get there belongings since my road is only road and I made it crystal clear trespassers will get shot (I checked on my local defend your castle laws where I live and I have it posted which is all I have to do)
*When I bought a brand-new home near Lake Pleasant, AZ, that was built from the ground up after choosing a model, there was no such thing as an HOA. These were wealthy homes priced from $350,000 to multimillions. I remember that after half of the homes were finished (it took about six months to build our 3,100 sq ft home with front and back yards), someone from an HOA went around passing out flyers, asking if we wanted an HOA in our community. Nearly every single neighbor said NO! (There were about 100 homes at that time in what was to be a 200-home community). Because they couldn't get enough votes, they weren't allowed to set up camp in our community. I'm glad I was living among smart neighbors.*
@@azarml *I don't know what the percentage was but I'm just so glad that my neighbors were like minded. Because my father-in-law was having issue with his HOA where he lived. Like they told him he couldn't put a SAT dish on the front corner of the roof of his 2-story house, which was the Optima location for it, etc...*
The neighborhood next to me didn't have an HOA for almost 30 years and as of last year it does now and they forced my friend in there to join it so you never know.
@@CHMichael *Where I live, the local parks have tennis courts and top-of-the-nation schools and high schools. I could put a full-size tennis court and pool in my backyard with room to spare if I wanted. It's big enough.*
I know a neighbor who was pissed about a ring doorbell camera across the hall from their unit, until someone broke into their front door and assaulted their child and it was all caught on camera by the neighbors ring and they found the suspect. HOA's and condo's are some of the worst creations of the modern era.
@@jfbeam what's the difference between that and "owning" your home? It's property you don't own, can't change, and can easily be thrown out of. You don't own it because you're paying rent for it. Changing the name from "rent" to "property tax" doesn't change the fact that it's still rent payments. You can change little things, but change anything without permission and code enforcement will be on your porch. Stop paying your "property tax/rent" and see just how easily they'll throw you out of the home you "own"!
@@MountainOfTruth HOA rules are contract law. It's not great, but it IS a definite reason to avoid HOAs if at all possible. Second reason: Early HOAs were meant to help keep black people out.
But people expect a level of privacy entering or leaving their home. When someone sets up a camera to record beyond their property then posts to UA-cam to make fun of neighbor is why HOA’s have this rule. If she requested approval and had the camera adjusted to not see other neighbors then it most likely would have been approved. Most HOA’s aren’t unreasonable you only hear about the crazy ones. Remember HOA’s are made up of the owners who elect a board to oversee the rules. If the majority of homeowners don’t like the rules, they can be amended.
@@JustMe-pn6xw I agree. I’ve been stalked on a few occasions (that I’m aware of). Once by a neighbor who tried repeatedly to break into my apt in the middle of the night. He was stalking other girls too and eventually broke into one of their apts while they were in the shower. Fortunately she made it out unscathed as her dog alerted her and she was able to lock/barricade herself in a bedroom as she called the police. It’s insane to me that people are ok with their neighbors recording their coming and going from their own homes because one of them might intend to do nefarious things with that knowledge. Some apts and condos are set up so your front door is directly across from your neighbors. This would give a perp with a cam spacial navigation foreknowledge and whether or not you’re alone 😳
this is not a case about your rights being trampled. you do not have the right to violate the privacy of others. in THIS case, it sounds like a good HOA, not wanting to charge if they complied. There are multiple ways she could have gained the security without involving neighbors. Please note that Amazon controls the camera, records and retains the footage, not the homeowner. and Amazon has been caught sharing videos that people thought were private.
We voted against an HOA 30 years ago. Almost wish we had one. After waiting 25 years for the county to agree to maintain our roads, the current homeowners voted against it. Those of us paying out of pocket to fix the roads just stopped. The streets are a disaster now. Wondering how long begore the same people start asking for an HOA.
@@dave-in-nj9393 there's no expectations of privacy outside your residence... If this is a front door pointing outside your in plain view... As I said above If I owned a house across from the condos I'd out uo huge quite visible cameras pointing towards the condos... Im happy to play...
If you don’t want to be recorded, don’t go outside. People can stand on a public sidewalk and record your house and everything outside all they want, even inside your house if you don’t have your blinds or curtains covering them. There is no expectation of privacy in public. All hoas, and the like, are stupid.
Good luck finding a house in Colorado. BTW …. Every neighborhood that didn’t have an HOA in Colorado (and there weren’t many) when we were looking looked like no one cared about where they lived. The yards were all a wreck.
@@auggiedoggiesmommy1734 Also in CO (Springs) pretty much ALL the town-home/carriage-house communities have HOA fees...there is NO way around it. Even some communities of duplexes and single-family/detached homes have HOA fees (I'm thinking of the newer neighborhoods in the Banning-Lewis Ranch and maybe Wolf Ranch developments). Lots of people can't afford a single-family/detached house but can afford a smaller town-home/carriage-house, and I don't know of even ONE of those communities that does NOT have a HOA fee. So people buying those properties -- generally smaller/less-expensive homes/starter-homes -- it's not their choice to have an HOA fee or not because they get one regardless. -- BR
If it's more important to you that your home/neighborhood look uniform and be regulated than it is that you be able to freely change your property, an HOA is a perfectly fine choice. I lived in an HOA community before, and while I probably won't do it again, knowing that the neighbor's grass would always be the same height as mine, and that my neighbor wasn't suddenly going to paint his house orange, or park a disused 1977 Peterbilt on his lawn was nice.
Thank God Virginia limits HOA/COA fines for continuing violation to $10 per day for a max of 90 days and construes their rule-making powers narrowly IAW the by-laws. This prevents most heavy-handed nonsense.
& HOA'S can literally get a crapload of fines themselves, especially for code violations, illegal towing, fire violations & criminal charges for stealing the electricity & criminal enterprise, like a HOA had to deal with after illegally towing my vehicle & others ,they in the hole 🕳 for hundreds of thousands dollars & in the pokie for the criminal charges
Yup the law limits their rules to common areas and other such areas reserved to the HOA and not someone else but it doesnt stop a board from coloring outside the lines and placing a lien on your home -- I've seen that in Fairfax.
If you leave your home, the supreme court held, you don't have any reasonable expectations of privacy. Plain view. So she definitely needs a better attorney
You absolutely do have a reasonable expectation of privacy from people who voluntarily promised and signed, in writing, to respect your privacy. The Supreme Court is only referring to random strangers who owe you nothing and have not waived anything, not people with specific contractual restrictive agreements with you that they agreed to.
Over time, if someone or group repeatedly forfeit those rights by acting against that ruling, eventually that ruling can be overturned. In the case of an HOA, if they have documents that clearly state what can add can't be done, and the opposition signed off on that, the SC won't touch it and leave it to lower courts. This one is pretty clear cut.
@@gavinjenkins899I wouldn’t think that language is in the bylaws of the HOA/CA but what is the words common area, in this situation if their are guest parking spots or exterior control of color, style or trim or anything in view of the camera would be reasonable. So Teslas should be banned or any vehicle with car cameras or police cams should also be banned. Her lawyer sucked and she should file an appeal.
Had a well meaning but decidedly deranged lady attempt to get an HOA started in our rural neighborhood. I found our about it through my neighbor who has lived there for time out of mind. Couple days go by and miss crazy called on us. We stood on the porch and chatted for a few minutes. She finally broached the interest in forming an HOA for our little neighborhood. I listened politely for a few minutes then after she wound down, I asked her if she thought that someone like me who bought 15 acres of land in a rural farming community to get away from exterior influences like HOA's, Apartment management etc was a likely candidate for promoting an HOA to the rest of the neighborhood? I then invited her to leave post haste and seek some counseling. She never darkened my doorstep again. She moved out three months later.
If the issue ever comes up in my 60 house rural neighborhood, I will go house to house and get legal shots from every angle and write each neighbor fines with a summary of infractions, and make some up that they have to prove where they aren't breaking those rules. A second paper noting that this is an examples of how it will be years down the road when the original board members move or pass and get replaced by new people. I think most everyone will vote against the HOA except that neighbor with the golf course lawn and has a company come out to maintain the appearance of the house when needed.
@@indykurt They cannot force houses to join. It is good to warn your neighbors so they don't fall for it, but you do not need to ever join just because other neighbors do. I don't understand what a rural HOA would even be doing. If you needed to hire your own trash collection, you don't need an HOA for that.
@@_PatrickO Point taken, thanks. I was in the wrong mindset thinking you can be forced into something. I bet they have ways to trick you into it but in the end, I bought the house without an HOA, I should legally be able to stay that way.
She was not a well-meaning lady; she was a female person looking to tell others what they can do with their own private property. There's nothing at all well-meaning about a female person who would do something like that.
Why would you brag on the internet about being a rude and immature person to your neighbors by insulting their mental health for simply having different proposals than you?
Hey, it keeps the low life from putting broken down cars in the front yard, and it makes people cut the grass and maintain their homes. It is worth it, especially for keeping your property value higher, Most HOA are not that bad.
@@fredbarnes196 Hey, I've live in non-HOA neighborhoods for 10 years. Guess what? No broken down cars, people cut their grass and take care of their stuff, put up signs if they want to support something or another. With every HOA prior, there's been some a-hole on a power trip claiming this and that without even looking at the property.
When I decided to buy a home, my number 1 rule to the realtor was "NO HOA" and my number 2 rule was "READ RULE NUMBER 1!". I live in a home without an HOA and am so relieved.
yep, until you get the kind of neighbor an hoa would have protected you from. not all hoas are bad and not all are great. blanket dismissal is ignorant.
Same here. There is absolutely no upside to an HOA. The fees are so high that they negate any theoretical property value preservation which HOA's claim to be an advantage. Better to put the 200 to 300 a month toward paying off principal or simply buying a bigger home. By the way, some HOA's are expired as legal entity and may not exist in reality.
I'm not in an HOA. My neighbor has committed crimes against my family. Assault, stalking, property damage. We have taken them to court only to find out it is a waste of time and money. I put up 20 security cameras. 8 Of them are on 2- 30ft high poles in the center of my lot. The point in all directions and capture almost every square inch of my property and every other thing those cameras over-sg=hoot. Including this neighbor's entire property. They tried to force me to remove them. The judge told them that as long as those cameras are not aimed directly at their windows, that they are completely legal and that they could plant trees to block the camera view. If I then raise the cameras above the trees that then I could "possibly " get into some trouble. 4 years later...no more BS from them and they have even tried to get our footage to help convict a relative that was attacking one of them on their property. I told them of course to go crap into a hat. What they don't know is that most of the cameras are fake, and that only 5 actually record anything.
@@venom5809 Yes, and then the new owner is in the HOA. Let me re-phrase the statement - it's easier to get out of the Mafia than it is to get a piece of property out of an HOA.
@@timothylawrence707 good point and what some charge. There is a condo complex where I live the condo can be bought from 25,000 to 50,000 but the HOA per month is 400.00 Same price as some lot rent for mobile homes. I would never agree to those terms I don't care it has tennis courts that have cracks and a pool that no one wants to swim in. And a dinky club house. You don't put basket ball hoops on a tennis court. Talk about causing neighbors homes devaluing. One thing I left out the HOA was asking around if other neighbors wanted to join the condo's HOA my parents had better sense we already had a pool. 73
Tell that to your city/state government. There's plenty of laws that prevent you from doing certain things on your property. And if you don't do certain things, like keep your lawn below 6 inches, they will cite and fine you for it. I've been dealing with the abject insanity of code enforcement for 20 years in my area, it's been eyeopening as to the restrictions and requirements of home ownership.
The federal, state, county, city/township already tell you what to do with "your" property and charge you money for the privilege. HOA is simply a fifth level of government. Which is about 4 too many...
They literally do pay your bills though, you often save money by pooling resources for common area insurance for example, and leverage in negotiations with utilities, etc.
This is a great example of one of the SENSIBLE benefits of an HOA. Not having to put up with creepy stalker neighbors spying on me 24/7 is amazing. That's a plus one point in favor of that neighborhood. Not sure about the HOA's other rules, but that's one's dope.
Because your protected first amendment right allows you to film anything in public, from public. Your home is not public property, so it is not covered by the first amendment.
Also the 1st amendment only applies to the government. I.e. cops cannot stop you from speaking. Private business owners, private clubs etc can. Same as how facebook can ban you from their platform if you break the rules you agreed to follow.
What Sane people, would say "The Company/Group has the RIGHT to dictate what you can do with your home, that is NOT visual. The camera is NOT visible to others, no one else can see it." A Jury somehow agreed that the HOA can Dictate your SAFETY, and Dictate your SECURITY.
Yes. Not sure why she did not move. The fact that the HOA was willing to waive the fees means she could have proposed moving in exchange. What is her end game?
I have a good friend who's father and him lived ibn a house within an HOA. They went on a trip for several days and when they returned, a pipe had broken and the house was flooded. The floor had even collapsed into the basement. They contacted their insurance company who sent the money for repairs - to the HOA. The HOA sat on the money for almost a year while they had to live in a hotel until their money ran out. They then had to move back into the house which was legally declared UNLIVABLE. The HOA still refused to pay for repairs! The story does have a happy ending though. My friend is legally certified as disabled and an adult child with his father as his guardian. My friend told his social worker about the problem and the FEDS stepped in under the disabilities act. The HOA was forced to pay for repairs and is currently under investigation for attempted grand theft of the money. 🤣 But the moral of my story is: Never EVER live where there is a HOA!!!
My parents had a house built in 1959, I was 7 at the time. There was a HOA for the subdivision, with a president, secretary, treasurer, etc. I grew up there, and after my mom died in 2018, sold the property. In all those years, the HOA never overreached in anyone’s personal affairs. They arranged for subdivision garage sales, negotiated trash pickup at a reasonable rate, had Easter egg hunts, even successfully went to court against the county sewer department to get an upgrade. I never remember any complaints from the neighbors about the association. That’s what they should be doing, not monitoring in the minutia of people’s lives.
We live in an HOA community and they take care of the pool, the entry gates, and the lawns in the common area.. The rules of the neighborhood as far as homeowners is the same as the city laws are and the HOA has no authority over a homeowner other than for nonpayment of dues, and even then, all they can do is file a lien on the property. It's important to review what the HOA covenants say before purchasing a property in an HOA community, though, and especially in condo complexes where they usually still more or less own the outside because they do all the maintenance of it.
it only takes 1 election of 1 bad actor to change all that, and before you know it, you can't leave your garage door closed, or open, or park in your driveway, or not park in your driveway or whatever insane thing they decide. 1 election.
@@garybelew7813 Do you actually understand what a lien is? It means if a person (with a lien) goes to sell the house, the sale can't go through until the lien is paid off in FULL. Did you notice that the HOA in this video are asking the judge to make this woman pay their attorney's fees? Or that the HOA very easily ran up $100,000 in legal fees? It's a condo. More than likely her profit will not be anywhere close to $100,,000. Her choices would be 1. to live there until she dies (her estate would still owe the money to the HOA) 2. Declare bankruptcy and walk away from the property (although the HOA still has the right to sue her for any outstanding $$$ and garnish her wages until they are paid in full) . So the, "all they can do is put a lien on your property" is actually a very big deal. Also, a lien will immediately go on a person's credit history report and it DESTROYS a person's credit rating. A lien is NOT a joke
@@kchunter7389 I know exactly what a lien is, and if a person can't pay their HOA dues, they should know that well before it gets to the point you talk about. Our dues in my place are $350 a year, and they split it into two payments. I also said that people need to watch condos, because HOA dues often cover a lot of other things such as all outside maintenence and even electric and cable in many places. I have looked at complexes that the HOA dues are more than $1200 a month and they go up all the time. As for my case, even if a homeowner was 10 years behind, it would be a $3500 charge against the value of the home, and our homes are worth far more than that.
Most new developments come with one baked in So you either have to find a plot without one (which could result in not being in the town you want) or buy an older (pre 1970) home which comes with it's own issues.
ha... back in the day, i was president of my hoa (272 units, 27 acres, 2 pools, club houses, rv storage... etc), they're great starter homes or for persons that are never at home, or for retirees.... BUT for every day persons and families, they are the worst... the issues that i dealt with were insane, neighbor's cat "stalking" the other neighbor's little dog, kids playing basketball on the basketball court or climbing trees or riding bicycles, vehicles parked in visitor parking too long... needless to say, now i live in a hollar out past the last briar patch in nowhere usa...
Your neighbor's behavior can effect your home's value. HOA's exist primarily to maintain property values and to keep someone from parking a wreak in their driveway across the street, making it impossible for you to sell your home because no one wants to live next to a junk yard.
You only hear about the HOAs that are bad actors; there are over 370,000 HOAs in the U.S. Most are just doing their jobs, and when homeowners stay involved (attend HOA meetings, review annual financial statements, work with their neighbors to oust bad actors on the board, etc.) they work well. It is inarguable that SOME HOAs have been bad actors (frivolous rules, poor financial management, trying to impose HOA rules on non-HOA properties, etc.). But the majority are doing exactly what they're created for - maintaining shared/public use facilities. Don't get me wrong. I moved from my last property (part of an HOA) because I wasn't a fan of the HOA. I just don't think we should paint all HOAs with the same brush, without suggesting an alternate arrangement that distributes the cost of maintenance equitably among property owners. I'm still waiting to hear a suggestion for this ;-)
@@michaelelliott8350 not true at all, most if not all people don't post stuff online or have the means or will to fight. The "doing their jobs" is such BS. I've known people in hoas that would do all kinds of crap and change rules that wasn't positive but only what a small group wanted.
This happened in Charlotte. The Condo was more like a hotel in that the doors are facing into a communal hallway. As such the association stated that to maintain privacy of all residents they did not want the camera. Additionally, none of this enters into a public space. The hallway is interior to the condo, as such is considered private property of the Association.
Of course the HOA has no high resolution camera coverage in that hallway. And thieves absolutely will enter into that hallway even if it’s locked and such. And if something major happens like a break-in, the people living there will love the footage from a doorbell camera that is at the right level to identify people. So the HOA has to either invest in good camera coverage in that hallway - not cheap, or they are undermining the security posture of the residents.
Thanks for the context, does explain things a little. Still, poor lady just wants a sense of security after going through such trauma, hope she moves into a secure environment that allows her cameras oof
Starting July 1, 2024, Florida thankfully enacted new legislation that limits HOAs power. HOAs members now have to go through mandatory training to better understand the limitations of HOA authority. Too many HOA members let their position swell their egos into thinking they are almighty.
there are some good things about hoas but only when they are properly regulated and restricted in actions they can take in michigan hoas are severely restricted and regulated
HOA concept is OK, you don't want people doing crazy things to their property that brings down value of everyone else's property. The property is that they've been given way too much power
I'm glad that at a young age I learned about how petty a HOA can when I rented a condo with a couple other people. As everyone says, forget about it. No HOA.
The no hotel rule? That is not being petty, that is a common rule to protect owner occupiers from their property being turned into a flop house. Condos are supposed to be occupied by owners, but normally there is a hardship rule that allows a certain percertage to be rented out temporarily until the units can be sold. Having multiple unrelated individuals move into one of those units is NOT what the rest of the residents want or allow.
With all crazy stuff that some HOA are doing, this is actually very reasonable case. Justice is served, she is wrong, and HOA is right here. Amount of people in comments dumping on this HOA is maddening,
That would requier a hole drilled into the door. That may be a violation (modifying the exterior). But if allowed, then it would absolutely be no different than the ring camera. Same video of the same area.
@@idrathernot_2IF the peephole is there. If the peephole is not there, drilling is required. Either way, I would bet there is some provision for requesting a waiver to install a peephole, but using a camera instead.
Some years ago I was working in a court wherein we heard HOA cases every Thursday afternoon. This was a weekly scheduled calendar event. The cases were incredibly weird and varied greatly. There was no shortage of complaints from both the HOA and the residents. I made up my mind that I would NEVER own a piece of property subject to HOA rules. Fees go up and issues increase....
She was offered a settlement and she refused hoping that there would be 12 reasonable citizens in her state on the jury. She must not have been out of her house for the past ten years.
The unfortunate thing is she had options to get out of this but didn't take it (you can get less visible peekhole camera that simply replace the view hole of your door and install cameras inside and outside in consealed location if possible ) I agree it wasn't worth the 170k risk
Interpreting the law as a juror isn't always about just using your common sense to do what u feel is right. It's about understanding contract law, precedent, etc.
They sound reasonable. The rules said no camera pointing certain ways. The HOA also gave her a fair offer of taking it down and no fee. She refused. If I sign a contract with you and I do something that clearly breaks that contract and there are fees for that, shouldn't I have to pay you? I hate HOAs far more than most people but she agreed to the HOA. The 12 jurors based on everything we heard sounds fair.
@@SpeedDeamon95 Unfortunately, it's not about siding with anyone. It about the contract that she entered into by joining the HOA. I hope people become more aware of them before becoming bedazzled by the dwelling of interest.
All it takes is the judge to say "you must follow the letter of the law" and they do it. Most people have no idea that they can vote "not guilty" for any reason they please, but most people are sheeple.
" In the United States, laws regarding filming people in public can vary by state and federal law, and depend on the specific situation. Generally, it's legal to film someone in public if they don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy. This expectation can depend on where, who, and why the filming is taking place. For example, it's not illegal to film someone in a public place if they are visible and audible, especially if they don't seem to expect privacy. However, recording someone in a private setting, like a bathroom or changing area, without their knowledge is illegal. " If the argument was made on the fact that the neighbors didn't like that they were being recorded while in a public space and not the fact that the ring camera was somehow violating a provision listed in the bylaws it seems like an unreasonable verdict the jury arrived at.
@@justsumnameIf she bought a new place somewhere else, she could have construction done to make it feel safe if no HOA is involved. Cameras, barred windows, a steel door, etc.
If I had the money I would own the entire neighborhood and make sure I owned the street too. No HOA, no HOA Karens, no HOA Nazis, no people parking in front of my house, no kids, no barking dogs, no noise, no houses painted butt ugly colors.
She absolutely deserved to lose here, and justice was served just fine. She agreed to respect neighbors' privacy, in writing, then reneged on her promise and spied on them anyway. She's a liar, and a fraudster. And even then was given multiple opportunities to compromise and stuck to being a liar and a fraudster.
@@mundanestuff Obviously you agreeing to it itself CREATED the expectation. There's no DEFAULT expectation, but there is a clear expectation of XYZ now that you signed a document saying that XYZ would be respected by you. There's no DEFAULT expectation of me randomly giving you $100 for no reason, but if I'm your employer and entered a contract with you where you worked enough hours for that pay, then I am now obligated to pay you $100.
My family once put a peep hole camera on my mom’s apartment’s door, so she could see on the screen inside who was at the door and record if needed. When she moved out we reinstalled the old unit. This might be a more appropriate solution to this story for anyone else facing this issue.
I have 16 cameras in my rented apartment, inside and out, total. In my last apartment, same owner, I only had 4 outside because the layout was different and that was all I needed. I caught several burglary attempts and car break-ins. The landlord never complained. In our lake house, we had about 40 total, inside and out. We demolished that house so we don't still have it (have the property) but I'm a firm believer in good surveillance of my property. Of course a mask defeats all that so combine it with a couple good dogs.
This seems like the best solution. No one would really be aware of a peephole camera, unless they got a bit too close to it, or she started publicly releasing the footage.
Yep that's all she had to do is change it for a peep hole camera and replace the doorbell button that's compatible with it Not that I am siding with the apprtment complex she had a choice to take the option to pay nothing and remove the run doorbell and now she has won a 170k prize for her trouble (she taken the HOA to court not the HOA they didn't want to goto court) could have installed a peephole cam and would have saved her 170k
How can a person be charged $100.00 a day. That in itself is a crime. There should be a small maximum fine to an owner and must go through small claims court to collect.
I could understand, if it was second or third offense type thing. For example, dog poop not being cleaned up at an apartment place. I think with the full details, it's understandable the jury awarded in favor of the HOA, because the person was warned, possibly they even explained she could keep the camera if she mounted it differently. She refused, and continuously refused to take down the camera after numerous complaints by neighbors. I think in this situation the owner of the camera was clearly shown to just be a snoop or jerk at trial, and that's why they ruled against her.
@@bartdrennon1764 , not all contracts are valid! Just like when a cop tells you about an ordinance created by their office to arrest you doesn't make it a law! In many cases these ordinances are illegal!
@@I__Love_Lamp Brick do you really love the lamp or are you just looking around the room and saying you love things you see? Completely agree with you. Love the username
They did not say she could not have cameras, they said she could not have cameras to spy on the neighbors. They specifically said she COULD have cameras, just so long as they did not overlook the neighbors, so the HOA was being reasonable and looking after everyones interests. In a community your neighbors have rights too, not just you. This case has nothing to do with security, and it probably is a privacy issue combined with bad behaviour.
What "shady stuff" do you think an HOA board is doing in the HALLWAY between two condo units?🤣You people are such paranoid weirdos. I imagine you huddled behind your door in a vietnam olive drab fatigues and helmet wringing your hands all day about what the boogeymen are out to do to you. As Steve covered in the video, the point of the rule in this HOA was neighbors didn't want other neighbors spying on them all the time and logging every moment they come and go from their units, which is completely reasonable to agree to communally. Ring cameras right across the hall from your front door are creepy as heck.
You have to wonder what kind of sociopaths wouldn’t want a single woman have a ring camera outside her door…and what judge would say it’s ok. What are people doing in the hallway that they need privacy
I was a single woman when I moved into a condo and I put alarms on my door and cameras inside, because seeing who is on my steps is not going to help me at 2:00 am sleeping in bed. So their alternative suggestion is legitimate.
@@johng4093 The law is no expectation of privacy in a public space, inside of a private condo is not a public space. I personally would have no issue with her Ring camera but the people in the building cheating on their spouses probably do. LOL
There is supposed to be no expectation of privacy when out in public. Really do not understand the Jury going along with the HOA and nailing this woman for what's going to be over 100k in bogus damages.
@@Tedybear315 it's not a public space. She had an audio/video/motion sensor monitoring a private, locked, hallway that is used by many residents to access their unit.
In other places you can have your four inches of concrete ordered cut by the city. 4 years is nothing, my neighbour with whom we are discussing new fence just said that the current fence cuts one foot of her property and putting new fence would be a good moment to correct it. And we lived side by side for 10 years, and I lived with that fence for 24. And you know, she is actually correct.
I have a difficult neighbor, and a good slice of my driveway is on his property but fence line is incorrectly located so he doesn't know it. I keep forgetting to mention it to him. 😊
@@johng4093 Do NOT mention that to him or anyone else. He could legally and very easily make you tear up that part of the drive way that's on his property.
I've lived in condos like that and I totally get the desire for consistency across units. It's a trade-off and sometimes it kinda sucks not to paint your door whatever color you want, but that is also part of the appeal. And I have served on an HOA board. There were times we had to tell people to knock something off, but we never fined them. If anything, we would most likely cut off access to certain shared services until they were in compliance (think of something like a community pool), but NOTHING like $100 PER DAY. That is *grossly excessive* and unwarranted. Best case in this scenario, in my opinion, would be for the HOA board to first understand that this is not only a perfectly reasonable and legitimate request-it would be even if she had never been assaulted before, but *especially* if she had-but it is a request that more and more residents will want over time, so they should just go ahead and decide on it now. They could look at different cameras on the market and pick one or two models that meet their requirements. If it is cosmetic, then there are models of various shapes and sizes and surely one or two would fit the vibe they want. If it is neighbor privacy, then they could require models that allow you to reduce the field of depth and mandate that they be on settings of ten feet or less rather than twenty or thirty feet. Etc. Or they could approve them only at certain angles, like more of a top down view as opposed to horizontal. Then they let everyone know that these are the new rules for this new, completely reasonable tech. That's how it should have been handled. Just act ****ing human towards one another. It's not hard.
Who makes up the hoa? That’s right, the homeowners! If this Karen didn’t like the rules, she shouldn’t have agreed to them! All of you bums need to grow up!
Well, probably because she knew the rules and blatantly violated them, even after she was told she was breaking the rules. The HOA offered to settle with her, and the HOA offered her further guidance of what she could do to stay within the rules and still have cameras up. Instead she sued them
I live in an HOA, and we have no rules about cameras. I have them all around my home, front, back, and sides. I went individually to all my neighbors within camera range and told them about the cameras and asked if they were okay with them. At least half my neighbors are seasonal residents and all of them plus year-round residents were supportive of my cameras. The HOA also knows about my cameras, and they encourage them because we get occasional break-ins.
@@davidtaylor4053 > At least half my neighbors are seasonal residents and *all of them plus year-round residents* were supportive of my cameras. I don't think you know how to read.
They make ring cameras that fit inside your door peephole and are undetectable from the outside. She probably put a box outside the door. That's where she messed up. The peephole insert wouldn't have required approval because the HOA would never know about it.
They also make ring cameras that aren't doorbells at all but normal security cameras that can be placed anywhere. It could have been a fancy 360 degree camera hanging off the corner of the building. We don't know, but a jury determined she was wrong.
@@gavinjenkins899 And having previously rented a condo, I can assure you that one day a person or persons that live in this condo complex will eventually look through her peephole to see if she does have a camera or just to see if they can see inside her condo (in the hopes they can find something to turn her into the HOA about).
Never buy a house in a HOA... I'm a grown ass man, I'm not letting some stranger tell me what color I can paint, what I can modify, or where I can park, or who can come over and when... imagine being a grown ass adult and having some lifeless babysitter telling you what you can and can't do at your own house that you paid for.
As a longtime HOA director who handles legal matters for our association of over 600 homes, I am firmly convinced the HOA was unreasonable when it denied the doorbell camera request. It is a well-established fact that exterior lighting and security cameras enhance neighborhood security. While the HOA has concerns about privacy, the fact is the HOA is not operating the camera, and any litigation regarding privacy would be against the owner who installed the camera, not the HOA. Stated another way, the HOA's privacy concerns are unfounded, and I would argue further they have no standing in that matter. The residents in our HOA have over a hundred exterior cameras mounted throughout the community, and the crime rate is a fraction of what it is in neighboring areas. We have never denied an application for security cameras a resident installs on their property for the purpose of monitoring their own property, and I expect we never will.
Many condos are basically apartment buildings. Her camera may be pointed at the door across the hall. In any event, HOAs and Condo Assns are extremely different. In a condo you only own the interior, everything outside your four walls belongs to the Association. They decide when exterior maintenance is done and every other imaginable thing outside your interior space. And when they decide, you pay. Whether you like it or not.
HOA is similar except what yours is more extended and what is common is more limited. And indeed, in multistory building you practically cannot avoid some condo structure, while in private house there is an option to buy one without HOA.
Yes absolute Hell. God forbid you have to actually mow your lawn, pull weeds, and can't play loud music until 3 am. It's crazy how people are kidnapped and forced to build in an HOA and are never given the rules before they sign!
@@xhandhele Thats true. I was assuming by the wording she got drugged at a bar and followed home. but who knows? I dont fault you for questioning a random woman just because shes a self labeled victim? Ive known plenty who would kill a man to get that victim label for whatever reason.
How do we know she was assaulted. Anybody can claim that. She could have just used that as an argument. Also, the HOA isn't a protective arm. They are not of police. They are not security. Your argument here is essentially that there would never be any crime in an HOA. That's ridiculous.
@@Ka_Gg From my personal experience the cops arent allowed to come in the gated community unless invited in. So with those rules yes they would have at least a neighborhood watch. The neighbors notice a tiny ring doorbell but not a strange man, sure. and thats if it was at the home, we dunno.
I would argue that the HOA should be required to show damages of $100 or greater per day for this to be enforceable. If remedy is as simple as removal, then that should be what limits their costs.
@@Joe4USMC under the constution unjust penalties are illegal as well, to bad that provision is never enforced. This is the equivlant to saying, oh look we have an agreement which you have little or no say in, and we get to take as much money as we want from you if there is an disagreement. HOA's are an abomination, they impose rules in such a where indivisual rights are never considered. They have rights which no person should have, e.g. the right to pass new bylaws with little or in some cases no advance notice and impose penalties as such. They can make rules which make no sense, and impose sevear inconvenience or expense on those under their rule. There are cases where HOA's have signed in neighborhoods via bullying tactics. Or where they have purchased neighboring property, or included not connected property that they own in a community in order to get a majority vote. Thus allowing them to pass whatever bylaws they want. This isn't just a case of not being fair. This is a case of why are they allowed to do this in the first place?
@@mrmotofy you're right, but you'd be surprised to learn that contracts are not above the law. If laws get passed limiting what HOA's can do. Then there is litterly nothing they can do about it. Just because someone puts something in a contract doesn't mean its right, legal, or absolute. Oh top of that HOA bylaws are a completely diffrent subject. So, it can be changed with enough support from the people. Which is the very point of my comment.
Shocked Lehto is not siding with the victim here. As another commenter pointed out, there is no reasonable expectation or right of privacy in public. She, however, has a legitimate interest in placing a door cam. And he appears clearly unaware of the whole widespread reality of door cams to begin with.
HOA’s. Fun. That poor woman was victimized multiple times. On the other hand there’s some issues with privacy because people have had their camera footage given to police of them or their neighbors without even a warrant
She was given options. Normally HOA stories are very different but they tried to work with her. Even after she escalated things they gave her an option to settle. She passed. This time she is the one who made the situation worse for herself not the HOA.
I don't think that'll bother the HOA. They already offered to settle and waive the fees if she took the camera down. They don't care about the money or attorney's fees. They just wanted the camera taken down.
You're acting like the HoA wanted the money. . . They did not, and she sued them, not the other way around. She violated her contract for 5 whole years. I can clearly see the party that's at fault here.
Let me posit a hypothetical, IF she had been attacked, or her home broken into, and the camera had captured an identifiable picture of the perpetrator, would the HOA,' still have won' the lawsuit? Rules forbidding a homeowner from protecting his/her own home, even through the use of NON-lethal force, would seem to violate the principle of "ones home is his castle". Instances like this is what makes the study of law so interesting, in that it makes YOU think.
She'd have to sell and find a new place, that meets her requirements. It's not like a 2K fee for breaking a lease and moving into a new apt down the street.
@@windowshasyou5561 there's virtually no choice where I am in a metro area. It's new construction, historical homes, ghettos and a handful of decent neighborhoods that no one wants to move out of. Houses can be under contract/sale pending within 24hrs of listing anymore. Fckn ridiculous.
@@andrewvirtue5048 you can actually. If you agree not to talk about something as part of a nondisclosure agreement, your 1st amd rights are limited. If you agree to have no firearms on your property as part of an agreement, your 2nd amendment rights are limited. You can waive pretty much any right you have in private matters. Some exceptions apply via case law.
She was using it for her own self defense. Under that arguement, that Ring Camera falls under the Second Amendment, it is a ARMS she is using for her self defense, and constitutionally protected. And you can't sign away your rights. If you can, they are NOT a Right anymore.
I have a friend that lives in a HOA controlled environment, he put up cameras outside of his house and was told that it was not allowed but his lawyer informed him that if he was forced to take them down and his house got broken into the HOA was responsible for anything stolen or damaged. He informed the HOA of this and they told him to just paint them the same color as his garage and front fascia to his house and he can leave them up.
Depends on the exact rule in the HOA, which he didn't specify word for word. It might simply refer to recording the neighborhood, not specify exclusively ring cameras.
Laws vary from state to state, but in Texas, if your camera points into private space, such as a bathroom or bedroom, then your in the wrong. Public spaces can technically be considered 'private' such as a swimming pool. HOA's, community agreements, ect, can limit what you can record. I have no idea what the agreements are where she lives, nor do I know what the camera was pointed at, but a key point is that she lost in front of a JURY. So there's something going on here we don't have the details to.
Expectation of privacy has nothing to do with this. This is a simple contract situation. She agreed to be bound by the hoa. And refused to take the camera down.
That's simply not true. You can take any HOA dispute to court and have a judge decide, not the HOA board, if you're convinced they're wrong. In fact this exact story in the video is of that exact thing happening. If you're not a fan of judges interpreting rules, then I'm afraid you'll have to move the Mars, because that's true of every human society on earth.
I am old. I raised my family in a neighborhood for 17 years. Loved it there. Then the HOA decided to stop enforcing rules. They kept taking my money though. The neighborhood went to crap. We moved. Everyone moved. It is now a dump. So lesson one, an HOA that does nothing is worthless. Might as well not have one. So then we moved to a neighboring county and the HOA was very strict and they enforced everything and anything. My neighbor was a lawyer and tried to thwart them. They backed her right down. She was wrong and was forced to admit it. Rules are rules. However, the HOA took things too far on another matter and they were the ones who were forced to back down. They had a duty to upkeep a pond damn. It was clearly in the old documents. They tried to pawn it off on some home owners adjoining the pond. The problem was ultimately solved, but they should not have tried to do something like that. I then moved again and this time we had the perfect HOA. It was a smaller neighborhood. Everyone knew each other. Stuff was enforced but it was nothing unreasonable. Great times. NOW I live in a new neighborhood where the builder controls the HOA not the people, and once again, I am in a situation where they take my money and enforce nothing. So there is a moral to the story here. Have an HOA for general stuff and enforce the rules.
I don't know about other cameras, but the Ring camera lets you set the detection area. I've used one which gave too many false alerts because it detected people out on the sidewalk in front of my home. When I excluded the walk and reduced the detection area to the area in front of my door, it stopped recording the activity on the sidewalk. Note: The camera can still see what is happening all the way across the street, but it does not activate the record function unless the person (more frequently, the neighbor's cat) is on my porch and moving in front of the actual door.
HOAs exist because municipalities don't want to pay for the infrastructure for a developer to build a neighborhood. Not just the initial cost to build the roads and such, but the ongoing cost to maintain all those common areas. Therefore, if you want to buy a newly built home, your options are to buy inside an HOA or purchase buildable land outside of an existing HOA and hire your own homebuilding crew (architects, engineers, general contractor, and individual contractors).
In almost any metro area any home built in the 1970s or later is going to be in an association. By limiting selections to "no HOA" finding a home becomes difficult to impossible because such properties are rarely available inventory..
Or buy elsewhere that's better in every way. So you're paying taxes for nothing, then paying HOA people to scam you and get rich (yes, that's all they do).
Some observations: 1) $100/day is excessive. 2) The same hallway the ring camera was mounted was probably video monitored and recorded. 3) Privacy is a moot point if you are in a common space. What expectation of privacy is being violated? It's only an issue if the shares that data, 4) The function of the issue is safety. The HOA has an obligation to facilitate safety issues. The matter MUST be looked at from all aspects and not just one "rule". What did the HOA do to facilitate safety? 5) What liability did the HOA have for allowing her to leave the camera up? 6) How is the privacy issue any different if there is a camera on the other side of a door peephole? The door did have a peephole, right?
It won't work, she has no case. In any event, you can't appeal simply because you don't like the outcome, there has to have been a technical failing in the trial itself otherwise the finding is final.
@@Tugela60 My guess is a lawyer who specializes in appeals could find a reason to appeal it. It's her property, and her safety. Common sense does occasionally win in the end. She could also go to more local and national news outlets, to generate support, perhaps even financial support, for her cause.
Where I live we have a POA - Property Owners Assoc. It's a rural area, and the association takes care of all the empty lot mowing, animal abatement, the common mailbox area (mowing, maintenance) and the parks. They are not, however, intrusive on my house, other than the typical stuff - roof, fencing, etc. This is the most lax POA I've ever had to deal with for an existing house, but it's nice that they take care of the area. HOA's can be a positive, it all depends on WHICH HOA, definitely worth doing research before moving - but mostly they are a blessing when you need them, and a curse when you are wronged by them...
@@thattinawoman5119 exactly. I live in a non HOA area. Had a family move in next door, and they are exactly the kind of people an HOA was designed to keep away. These people was trashy and vile. They had 4 kids and multiple dogs, the parents was in their 30s and was capable, but lazy, and nasty. Their yard eventually turned into their own trash dumping area. And then comes the roaches and rats. Their kids was just as lazy, nasty and vile as the parents. Then I started finding their trash into my yard. Their trash piled onto my fence, tell them about it and they would try to fight you, and sometimes take it out onto your property. People just do not understand unless it happens to them. They say mind your own business, BUT when what someone does effects you, then it becomes your business.
@@thattinawoman5119 Same with us. We live on a small branch of a state road with 12-14 houses. However our HOA does have a few previsions that prevent someone from making radical changes to their property. So your are now allowed to paint your house blue for instance. We also manage the HOA for ourselves, meaning there is no incentive to fine someone...
My grandmother lived in an HOA. A couple of the residents had issues with the HOA. They won seats on the board and got to add what they wanted. I made sure when I was not in an HOA when I bought my home.
Unfortunately this case is dealing with an HOA in a civil matter for violation of bylaws, and not a criminal matter against the federal, state, or local governments, and so First Amendment rights don't apply.
It's not in public. The camera is not recording outside. The camera is recording inside the private hallway of the condominium building. The hallway is accessible only through a locked entrance door. It is not a public area, it's a private shared (amongst the other owners) area. First amendment protections for recording in public aren't relevant to recording inside a private space.
@@andrewalexander9492 - we are not entirely sure about that. When he read the snippets of the lawsuit to us, it said "across the street", not "across the hallway". There is no indication from this video that we are dealing with the enclosed areas of the building.
@@Starhawke_Gaming " we are not entirely sure about that. " Yes, we are sure about that. the bit about "across the street" is Steve talking out of his ass. I have seen the news video of this done by the TV station local to the situation. They interviewed here at her apartment. They showed her door. There is no "outside" involved in any way, it is all inside an interior hallway. The only thing Steve said which was correct was at 0:28 when he said "So I don't know if she was living in a Townhouse, or a separate unit ..." Yeah, he didn't know. It's an apartment style condominium building where all the units open onto an interior hallway.
I went shopping for a house, I told the realtor that I didn't want a HOA. The first house that they showed was in a HOA. I fired the realtor right there.
This is actually a good way to determine if your real estate agent is competent and listening to what you want to buy rather than what they have to sell.
Could you fire the real estate agent though if you signed a written agreement? I thought buyer's agency agreements are required now.
Though absolutely, if your agent sucks, you should be able to get rid of them and get a new one.
As for HOAs, I learned about them when I moved from a condo in Germany to a house in the Deep South. Figured I make the best of the heat and humidity by planting a watermelon garden. Was told that even digging a hole in the ground was against the rules, which was quite shocking really, with all that empty land around all the houses.
@@MeowImageswhat area are you in? When my sister was shopping around she didn’t sign anything but basic papers to cover the agency’s ass. She wasn’t bound to them and could go somewhere else whenever she wanted, she only couldn’t use a different realtor at the same time.
@@MeowImages , if you need to sign one of those just to see some properties, find another realtor. Seller pays the commission for the listing and both agents split it (generally 6% but the seller can negotiate).
Our last one kept trying to get us to sign one to add an additional 10% paid by us as their additional broker commission *after we were under contract*-lucky to not have been fired on the spot (after I told them to stop sending it to me for signature with the other paperwork), never again. Amount of work done, a few house showings, lol.
Rule of thumb, realtors are worse than used car salesmen, by and large; read every disclosure twice including the ones at closing and be wary of any changes.
You are under no obligation to sign any paper work. Don’t sign anything. They will sneak into the fine print that they are owed a commission in whatever time period whether you find the house through them or not. Just tell them that only the houses that they show you will they get the commission, if the seller agrees.
FIRST rule of home shopping..NO HOA....period..
Yes
It's in my immediate veto list.
Neighbor puts beat up trucks in his front yard on cinderblocks, then builds five apartment units in his backyard, the units overlooking your backyard. THEN you will want an HOA.
Yes that is number one!
@TurdFerguson149 are you saying that my property, 2800 square foot main house, 900 square foot guest house, 30X30 barn, set on 6 3/4 acres 2 miles from a major lake is valued less than a 1500 square foot house on a 1/2 acre because it's in an HOA?
My cousin lives in a neighborhood with an HOA. He wanted to put a storage shed in the backyard to store his lawn equipment and asked for permission. HOA said no and to refer to the bylaws. He did and they clearly stated prior permission is required for (among other things) any exterior structure EXCEPT for playhouses. He stores his lawn equipment in his playhouse now.
Hahaha. I can tell without meeting your cousin, I like him.
I'd put up a dozen playhouses in my yard
I luv it😅😊
How do they differentiate between a shed and a playhouse?
@@Strideo1 probably, it's a "playhouse" if used for "play", and it's a "shed" if used for equipment storage. I wouldn't go around boasting if I were the cousin.
People need to be made more aware of the horrors of HOA's. Thanks for posting this.
All people need to do is READ the covenant, and understand the rules. If you can't live with it. don't buy.
@@joeL-m7q5m No person with a sane mind has time to read 200 pages of this BS.
An HOA is Prostitution in Reverse.
Both parties here were idiots.
Yeah yeah yeah. The reality is there are 2 percent difficult hoa offices and 90 percent difficult people as neighbors.
It’s far worse to have an infestation driving your property value down but yes, it can be a mafia so watch out.
Like anything else it can help you or kill you in different doses.
we live in a condo and actually had a board member call my doctor's office and ask if i "really need a service dog" (i have a progressive neuro condition and am in a power wheelchair since 2016). this sort of overreaching behavior shouldn't be tolerated of ANY group.
that same person then contacted the breeder of the service dog organization to see if my dog was really from them. Then suggested I don't REALLY need a service dog, because they had seen my spouse walking the dog alone without me. the breeder actually had to explain that disabled people might need help taking care of their service animal. it just blows my mind how nosy and controlling people on a board or HOA can be.
@@colorbugoriginals4457 there are also HIPPA regulations that say someone's medical information can be shared. The doctor and trainer should have said nothing.
Thats because the only people who run for HOA boards are incredibly bored with nothing else going on in their life so they need to meddle in the lives of others and be involved in everyone else's business. Start a stamp collection and leave the rest of us the hell alone.
@@annieb1794 the doctor did say nothing, fortunately. i think the breeder was trying to deescalate since it was a bizarre claim.
@@Norm-R i always say that too, that they need new hobbies!
I saw a story where a guy built a bat shelter in his backyard to get back at the HOA. It's illegal to take it down under state law.
Illegally constructed allows for it's removal.
@@jfbeamNot if protected bats have moved into the structure. Protecting the wildlife takes priority.
@@jfbeamNo, it is a federal crime to interfere with protected species.
@@jfbeam Depends on the laws in the jurisdiction that the land is in and the shelter was built. This state will have different laws than that one.
@@jfbeam HOAs don't get to overrule Civic, County, State or the Federal government.
This is why you never purchase a condo or a property inside an HOA.
All condos would be under some sort of HOA. You are not going to be able to buy a condo, apartment in a building without some sort of HOA. Even if the name is called something else it is the same as a HOA.
@@kameljoe21 buying a condo is absolutely pointless. Why buy a small apartment? It's ridiculous.
I can't understand how someone would want to buy a home that comes with rules. The reason I would buy a home is to get away from a landlords rules.
@300zxturbo Forcing people to accept a HOA in order to have housing is an affront to liberty. Just like union participation needs to be optional, HOA participation needs to be optional.
@@lilsheba1 Because it's cheaper than renting, especially if you buy at the bottom of the market. I live in a beach town and lots of condo owners here pay their mortgage, condo fees, and all other costs for the whole year by renting it out for three or four months in the winter.
HOA didn’t want any recording but the HOA takes photos and videos of “violations”.
There’s no privacy in public.
Unfortunately, the condo association owns the land. Therefore it’s privately owned not public…
@@MartinNelson-m4f the rule is not who own the land, but it the subject recorded was or not on plain sight.
Its not public
@@whynot8082Plain view doctrine and outside means no expectation of privacy
@@TBagr this is not a privacy issue. This is about her modifying the exterior of her door, which is common property. She can install cameras on the inside facing out with no problem. The expectation of privacy is irrelevant here.
I live in a condo as a renter and had a crazy neighbor who was a board member vandalizing and stealing from me. Cops told me to put up a camera. When I did, crazy neighbor tried to challenge me. I lobbied all the other board members and they kicked crazy off the board and wrote me a special letter allowing my camera to stay.
That's the former hoa near me. I own and live on 50 acre of land 2 acres has my home and fields then rest I left as woods. Well an hoa sprung up and wanted me to join I said no. I let them rent my private road with the rules of I'm not joining and pis me off and you loss all rights to use my road thill they got thers up which never did ans will come to play later. Had my lawyer draw it up to make it leagal and to have it in legalese say that. Well I'm at work they have a tree company cut down all my trees and we're in the process of splitting it up into lots. Note both crews were there at the same time. I locked my fience since I didnt call them called the my lawyer and cops. The hoa said it's there land but couldn't provide the land boundaries which I had. Before we had our court date they offered to by the land and road. Just note since they never made another road the people who love there and the tree guys stuff is still on my land since it was criminal amount of money value of damages well past a million usd just in lumber since 75% of the trees were old growth hard wood some of which over 30 feet high a 3 feet thick. At court they kept saying they bought the land I was a member etc but they didn't even bring any documents with the tree guys siding with them with there contract to clear cut. Since it was admint they screwed up and go bankrupt or try and save face and hope they won so don't have to go bankrupt. Well the hoa and tree people have to put the land back as it was. But since they can't they have to pay an arborist to take care of the few surviving trees and to plant and take care the rest. The hoa and tree guys are now bankrupt. With the hoa and members can't sell there homes or get there belongings since my road is only road and I made it crystal clear trespassers will get shot (I checked on my local defend your castle laws where I live and I have it posted which is all I have to do)
@@LoveShayslocogeeze, i'm glad they sided with you in the end but what a nightmare, those trees can never be replaced. blessing your sanity, friend ❤😊
@@LoveShayslocosorry about your beautiful trees. I’m glad you won in court!
@LoveShaysloco you have me cancer.
The problem is the other board members were still in on it, they just got scared. Don't trust them. :)
*When I bought a brand-new home near Lake Pleasant, AZ, that was built from the ground up after choosing a model, there was no such thing as an HOA. These were wealthy homes priced from $350,000 to multimillions. I remember that after half of the homes were finished (it took about six months to build our 3,100 sq ft home with front and back yards), someone from an HOA went around passing out flyers, asking if we wanted an HOA in our community. Nearly every single neighbor said NO! (There were about 100 homes at that time in what was to be a 200-home community). Because they couldn't get enough votes, they weren't allowed to set up camp in our community. I'm glad I was living among smart neighbors.*
Someone did that in my neighborhood too. There had been an HOA that became defunct. No one wanted to resurrect it. I think it required 100% approval.
@@azarml *I don't know what the percentage was but I'm just so glad that my neighbors were like minded. Because my father-in-law was having issue with his HOA where he lived. Like they told him he couldn't put a SAT dish on the front corner of the roof of his 2-story house, which was the Optima location for it, etc...*
@radicalrick9587 so there is no communal property? Tennis, extra green space, etc?
The neighborhood next to me didn't have an HOA for almost 30 years and as of last year it does now and they forced my friend in there to join it so you never know.
@@CHMichael *Where I live, the local parks have tennis courts and top-of-the-nation schools and high schools. I could put a full-size tennis court and pool in my backyard with room to spare if I wanted. It's big enough.*
I know a neighbor who was pissed about a ring doorbell camera across the hall from their unit, until someone broke into their front door and assaulted their child and it was all caught on camera by the neighbors ring and they found the suspect. HOA's and condo's are some of the worst creations of the modern era.
You should include apartments in your ranting... property you don't own, can't change, and they throw your ass out with minimal effort.
Busy bodies with a cause…
@@jfbeamRenting does make a lot of sense in the right situations.
@@jfbeam what's the difference between that and "owning" your home?
It's property you don't own, can't change, and can easily be thrown out of.
You don't own it because you're paying rent for it. Changing the name from "rent" to "property tax" doesn't change the fact that it's still rent payments.
You can change little things, but change anything without permission and code enforcement will be on your porch.
Stop paying your "property tax/rent" and see just how easily they'll throw you out of the home you "own"!
I don't understand how somebody could be that upset about it unless they were drug dealing or something out of their house.
The HOA’s position seems ridiculous because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy when you are in public.
Exactly. Shocked Lehto is not siding with the victim here. And he appears clearly unaware of the whole widespread reality of door cams.
@@MountainOfTruth HOA rules are contract law. It's not great, but it IS a definite reason to avoid HOAs if at all possible. Second reason: Early HOAs were meant to help keep black people out.
@@noyb7920 Thanks for that insight, I'd never heard that before.
But people expect a level of privacy entering or leaving their home. When someone sets up a camera to record beyond their property then posts to UA-cam to make fun of neighbor is why HOA’s have this rule. If she requested approval and had the camera adjusted to not see other neighbors then it most likely would have been approved. Most HOA’s aren’t unreasonable you only hear about the crazy ones. Remember HOA’s are made up of the owners who elect a board to oversee the rules. If the majority of homeowners don’t like the rules, they can be amended.
@@JustMe-pn6xw I agree. I’ve been stalked on a few occasions (that I’m aware of). Once by a neighbor who tried repeatedly to break into my apt in the middle of the night. He was stalking other girls too and eventually broke into one of their apts while they were in the shower. Fortunately she made it out unscathed as her dog alerted her and she was able to lock/barricade herself in a bedroom as she called the police. It’s insane to me that people are ok with their neighbors recording their coming and going from their own homes because one of them might intend to do nefarious things with that knowledge. Some apts and condos are set up so your front door is directly across from your neighbors. This would give a perp with a cam spacial navigation foreknowledge and whether or not you’re alone 😳
Nothing like signing your rights away when you agree to a HOA...
Boggles my mind why fools get into these....
this is not a case about your rights being trampled. you do not have the right to violate the privacy of others. in THIS case, it sounds like a good HOA, not wanting to charge if they complied. There are multiple ways she could have gained the security without involving neighbors.
Please note that Amazon controls the camera, records and retains the footage, not the homeowner. and Amazon has been caught sharing videos that people thought were private.
We voted against an HOA 30 years ago. Almost wish we had one. After waiting 25 years for the county to agree to maintain our roads, the current homeowners voted against it. Those of us paying out of pocket to fix the roads just stopped. The streets are a disaster now. Wondering how long begore the same people start asking for an HOA.
@@dave-in-nj9393 there's no expectations of privacy outside your residence... If this is a front door pointing outside your in plain view... As I said above If I owned a house across from the condos I'd out uo huge quite visible cameras pointing towards the condos... Im happy to play...
If you don’t want to be recorded, don’t go outside. People can stand on a public sidewalk and record your house and everything outside all they want, even inside your house if you don’t have your blinds or curtains covering them. There is no expectation of privacy in public. All hoas, and the like, are stupid.
Never, EVER move into an HOA situation. Ever.
Good luck finding a house in Colorado. BTW …. Every neighborhood that didn’t have an HOA in Colorado (and there weren’t many) when we were looking looked like no one cared about where they lived. The yards were all a wreck.
@@auggiedoggiesmommy1734 Also in CO (Springs) pretty much ALL the town-home/carriage-house communities have HOA fees...there is NO way around it. Even some communities of duplexes and single-family/detached homes have HOA fees (I'm thinking of the newer neighborhoods in the Banning-Lewis Ranch and maybe Wolf Ranch developments).
Lots of people can't afford a single-family/detached house but can afford a smaller town-home/carriage-house, and I don't know of even ONE of those communities that does NOT have a HOA fee.
So people buying those properties -- generally smaller/less-expensive homes/starter-homes -- it's not their choice to have an HOA fee or not because they get one regardless.
-- BR
I don’t understand why anyone would willing move into a
Hostages Only Association..?!
If it's more important to you that your home/neighborhood look uniform and be regulated than it is that you be able to freely change your property, an HOA is a perfectly fine choice. I lived in an HOA community before, and while I probably won't do it again, knowing that the neighbor's grass would always be the same height as mine, and that my neighbor wasn't suddenly going to paint his house orange, or park a disused 1977 Peterbilt on his lawn was nice.
@@earhornjones To me, that approach is a 1984-like guarantee that everyone is going to behave according to regulations.
Thank God Virginia limits HOA/COA fines for continuing violation to $10 per day for a max of 90 days and construes their rule-making powers narrowly IAW the by-laws. This prevents most heavy-handed nonsense.
& HOA'S can literally get a crapload of fines themselves, especially for code violations, illegal towing, fire violations & criminal charges for stealing the electricity & criminal enterprise, like a HOA had to deal with after illegally towing my vehicle & others ,they in the hole 🕳 for hundreds of thousands dollars & in the pokie for the criminal charges
This is the way.
There are some places where $10 a day wouldn’t even be a blip on their radar and the homeowner would do whatever they want.
Yup the law limits their rules to common areas and other such areas reserved to the HOA and not someone else but it doesnt stop a board from coloring outside the lines and placing a lien on your home -- I've seen that in Fairfax.
Exactly I would pay that extra $10/day and break every rule I could find just out of spite.
If you leave your home, the supreme court held, you don't have any reasonable expectations of privacy. Plain view. So she definitely needs a better attorney
My thoughts exactly.
You absolutely do have a reasonable expectation of privacy from people who voluntarily promised and signed, in writing, to respect your privacy. The Supreme Court is only referring to random strangers who owe you nothing and have not waived anything, not people with specific contractual restrictive agreements with you that they agreed to.
They also said if they smell pot coming from your house police can bust in and seize it for forfeiture.
Over time, if someone or group repeatedly forfeit those rights by acting against that ruling, eventually that ruling can be overturned. In the case of an HOA, if they have documents that clearly state what can add can't be done, and the opposition signed off on that, the SC won't touch it and leave it to lower courts. This one is pretty clear cut.
@@gavinjenkins899I wouldn’t think that language is in the bylaws of the HOA/CA but what is the words common area, in this situation if their are guest parking spots or exterior control of color, style or trim or anything in view of the camera would be reasonable. So Teslas should be banned or any vehicle with car cameras or police cams should also be banned. Her lawyer sucked and she should file an appeal.
Had a well meaning but decidedly deranged lady attempt to get an HOA started in our rural neighborhood. I found our about it through my neighbor who has lived there for time out of mind. Couple days go by and miss crazy called on us. We stood on the porch and chatted for a few minutes. She finally broached the interest in forming an HOA for our little neighborhood. I listened politely for a few minutes then after she wound down, I asked her if she thought that someone like me who bought 15 acres of land in a rural farming community to get away from exterior influences like HOA's, Apartment management etc was a likely candidate for promoting an HOA to the rest of the neighborhood? I then invited her to leave post haste and seek some counseling. She never darkened my doorstep again. She moved out three months later.
If the issue ever comes up in my 60 house rural neighborhood, I will go house to house and get legal shots from every angle and write each neighbor fines with a summary of infractions, and make some up that they have to prove where they aren't breaking those rules. A second paper noting that this is an examples of how it will be years down the road when the original board members move or pass and get replaced by new people. I think most everyone will vote against the HOA except that neighbor with the golf course lawn and has a company come out to maintain the appearance of the house when needed.
@@indykurt They cannot force houses to join. It is good to warn your neighbors so they don't fall for it, but you do not need to ever join just because other neighbors do. I don't understand what a rural HOA would even be doing. If you needed to hire your own trash collection, you don't need an HOA for that.
@@_PatrickO Point taken, thanks. I was in the wrong mindset thinking you can be forced into something. I bet they have ways to trick you into it but in the end, I bought the house without an HOA, I should legally be able to stay that way.
She was not a well-meaning lady; she was a female person looking to tell others what they can do with their own private property. There's nothing at all well-meaning about a female person who would do something like that.
Why would you brag on the internet about being a rude and immature person to your neighbors by insulting their mental health for simply having different proposals than you?
NEVER LIVE IN A HOA.
Hey, it keeps the low life from putting broken down cars in the front yard, and it makes people cut the grass and maintain their homes. It is worth it, especially for keeping your property value higher, Most HOA are not that bad.
@@fredbarnes196 Hey, I've live in non-HOA neighborhoods for 10 years. Guess what? No broken down cars, people cut their grass and take care of their stuff, put up signs if they want to support something or another. With every HOA prior, there's been some a-hole on a power trip claiming this and that without even looking at the property.
@@fredbarnes196 WRONG. Local/city ordnances keep broken down cars out of the front yard.
When I decided to buy a home, my number 1 rule to the realtor was "NO HOA" and my number 2 rule was "READ RULE NUMBER 1!". I live in a home without an HOA and am so relieved.
yep, until you get the kind of neighbor an hoa would have protected you from. not all hoas are bad and not all are great. blanket dismissal is ignorant.
@@TDC5 Hey, you can't have those color flowers in your flower pots. Nah, all HOA's are ridiculous.
@@TDC5 Blanket dismissal is often a safer bet against HOAs than any hopeful trust could be.
Same here. There is absolutely no upside to an HOA. The fees are so high that they negate any theoretical property value preservation which HOA's claim to be an advantage. Better to put the 200 to 300 a month toward paying off principal or simply buying a bigger home. By the way, some HOA's are expired as legal entity and may not exist in reality.
All the neighbors you need protection from LIVE in HOAs.
I'm not in an HOA. My neighbor has committed crimes against my family. Assault, stalking, property damage. We have taken them to court only to find out it is a waste of time and money. I put up 20 security cameras. 8 Of them are on 2- 30ft high poles in the center of my lot. The point in all directions and capture almost every square inch of my property and every other thing those cameras over-sg=hoot. Including this neighbor's entire property.
They tried to force me to remove them. The judge told them that as long as those cameras are not aimed directly at their windows, that they are completely legal and that they could plant trees to block the camera view. If I then raise the cameras above the trees that then I could "possibly " get into some trouble. 4 years later...no more BS from them and they have even tried to get our footage to help convict a relative that was attacking one of them on their property. I told them of course to go crap into a hat. What they don't know is that most of the cameras are fake, and that only 5 actually record anything.
It's easier to get out of the Mafia than an HOA.
You can sell the condo/house.
WTF are you talking about, you just sell your property. 🤦♂
@@venom5809 Yes, and then the new owner is in the HOA. Let me re-phrase the statement - it's easier to get out of the Mafia than it is to get a piece of property out of an HOA.
@@timothylawrence707 good point and what some charge. There is a condo complex where I live the condo can be bought from 25,000 to 50,000 but the HOA per month is 400.00 Same price as some lot rent for mobile homes. I would never agree to those terms I don't care it has tennis courts that have cracks and a pool that no one wants to swim in. And a dinky club house. You don't put basket ball hoops on a tennis court. Talk about causing neighbors homes devaluing. One thing I left out the HOA was asking around if other neighbors wanted to join the condo's HOA my parents had better sense we already had a pool. 73
You shouldn't have to sell your house though. HOA's have absurd legal power to kick you out of the house you own. Something about this isn't right
Thank God I don't live in a HOA. Ain't no way I'm letting someone who doesn't pay my bills tell me what I can do on my property.
Tell that to your city/state government.
There's plenty of laws that prevent you from doing certain things on your property.
And if you don't do certain things, like keep your lawn below 6 inches, they will cite and fine you for it.
I've been dealing with the abject insanity of code enforcement for 20 years in my area, it's been eyeopening as to the restrictions and requirements of home ownership.
Not only do they not pay your bills, they charge you huge fees for the honor of “joining”!
The federal, state, county, city/township already tell you what to do with "your" property and charge you money for the privilege. HOA is simply a fifth level of government. Which is about 4 too many...
Not only do they tell you what to do, but they make you pay for the privilege
They literally do pay your bills though, you often save money by pooling resources for common area insurance for example, and leverage in negotiations with utilities, etc.
Apparently the sole purpose of an HOA is to try to prove that citizens don't already have enough rules governing them.
I think it’s to grant power to psychologically unwell people who need to control others, and to bilk money out of them.
@@AprilFriday-de6vm you nailed it , the board naturally attracts sociopath types
And then the board members selectively bend/ignore the rules, to suit themselves
Control. Like any other public office.
This is a great example of one of the SENSIBLE benefits of an HOA. Not having to put up with creepy stalker neighbors spying on me 24/7 is amazing. That's a plus one point in favor of that neighborhood. Not sure about the HOA's other rules, but that's one's dope.
How can an HOA override your 1st amendment right to video anything in view of public. This needs an appeal
Because you sign them away when you buy a home in a HOA development. People willing do this are fools!
Private property is not public.
Because your protected first amendment right allows you to film anything in public, from public. Your home is not public property, so it is not covered by the first amendment.
You don't have a 1st amendment right to speak when you contractually agreed not to speak.
Also the 1st amendment only applies to the government. I.e. cops cannot stop you from speaking. Private business owners, private clubs etc can. Same as how facebook can ban you from their platform if you break the rules you agreed to follow.
What sane person pays a group of people that you have to ask permission to do something to something you own? Wild
What Sane people, would say "The Company/Group has the RIGHT to dictate what you can do with your home, that is NOT visual. The camera is NOT visible to others, no one else can see it." A Jury somehow agreed that the HOA can Dictate your SAFETY, and Dictate your SECURITY.
If you I've in a city you do to.
Listen, there are so many stupid people it's hard to think about.
My mom. She constantly bitches about her HOA. And as soon as I criticize it and her choice to live there, she's immediately defending it.
@@davidtaylor4053Yep. All that bureaucracy, codes, laws, and fines that feed that same bureaucracy. What could go wrong? Lolx2
When they said no, she should’ve said to herself these people are nuts and I’m moving to a different location….
This
Yes. Not sure why she did not move. The fact that the HOA was willing to waive the fees means she could have proposed moving in exchange. What is her end game?
peephole cameras are also a thing. what the condo association doesn't know doesn't hurt them.
probably would have been cheaper
I wonder if cars can be parked in the driveway. If so, I would have just gotten a dashcam. I’d see their pettiness and raise it.
I have a good friend who's father and him lived ibn a house within an HOA. They went on a trip for several days and when they returned, a pipe had broken and the house was flooded. The floor had even collapsed into the basement.
They contacted their insurance company who sent the money for repairs - to the HOA. The HOA sat on the money for almost a year while they had to live in a hotel until their money ran out. They then had to move back into the house which was legally declared UNLIVABLE. The HOA still refused to pay for repairs!
The story does have a happy ending though. My friend is legally certified as disabled and an adult child with his father as his guardian. My friend told his social worker about the problem and the FEDS stepped in under the disabilities act. The HOA was forced to pay for repairs and is currently under investigation for attempted grand theft of the money. 🤣
But the moral of my story is: Never EVER live where there is a HOA!!!
My parents had a house built in 1959, I was 7 at the time. There was a HOA for the subdivision, with a president, secretary, treasurer, etc. I grew up there, and after my mom died in 2018, sold the property. In all those years, the HOA never overreached in anyone’s personal affairs. They arranged for subdivision garage sales, negotiated trash pickup at a reasonable rate, had Easter egg hunts, even successfully went to court against the county sewer department to get an upgrade. I never remember any complaints from the neighbors about the association. That’s what they should be doing, not monitoring in the minutia of people’s lives.
We live in an HOA community and they take care of the pool, the entry gates, and the lawns in the common area.. The rules of the neighborhood as far as homeowners is the same as the city laws are and the HOA has no authority over a homeowner other than for nonpayment of dues, and even then, all they can do is file a lien on the property. It's important to review what the HOA covenants say before purchasing a property in an HOA community, though, and especially in condo complexes where they usually still more or less own the outside because they do all the maintenance of it.
it only takes 1 election of 1 bad actor to change all that, and before you know it, you can't leave your garage door closed, or open, or park in your driveway, or not park in your driveway or whatever insane thing they decide. 1 election.
@@garybelew7813 Do you actually understand what a lien is? It means if a person (with a lien) goes to sell the house, the sale can't go through until the lien is paid off in FULL. Did you notice that the HOA in this video are asking the judge to make this woman pay their attorney's fees? Or that the HOA very easily ran up $100,000 in legal fees? It's a condo. More than likely her profit will not be anywhere close to $100,,000. Her choices would be 1. to live there until she dies (her estate would still owe the money to the HOA) 2. Declare bankruptcy and walk away from the property (although the HOA still has the right to sue her for any outstanding $$$ and garnish her wages until they are paid in full) . So the, "all they can do is put a lien on your property" is actually a very big deal. Also, a lien will immediately go on a person's credit history report and it DESTROYS a person's credit rating. A lien is NOT a joke
@@kchunter7389 I know exactly what a lien is, and if a person can't pay their HOA dues, they should know that well before it gets to the point you talk about. Our dues in my place are $350 a year, and they split it into two payments. I also said that people need to watch condos, because HOA dues often cover a lot of other things such as all outside maintenence and even electric and cable in many places. I have looked at complexes that the HOA dues are more than $1200 a month and they go up all the time. As for my case, even if a homeowner was 10 years behind, it would be a $3500 charge against the value of the home, and our homes are worth far more than that.
the concept of an HOA did not change, the people did.
I don't understand why anybody would want to live under HOA
Most new developments come with one baked in
So you either have to find a plot without one (which could result in not being in the town you want) or buy an older (pre 1970) home which comes with it's own issues.
@@rankothefiremage new builds aren't very good quality
ha... back in the day, i was president of my hoa (272 units, 27 acres, 2 pools, club houses, rv storage... etc), they're great starter homes or for persons that are never at home, or for retirees.... BUT for every day persons and families, they are the worst... the issues that i dealt with were insane, neighbor's cat "stalking" the other neighbor's little dog, kids playing basketball on the basketball court or climbing trees or riding bicycles, vehicles parked in visitor parking too long... needless to say, now i live in a hollar out past the last briar patch in nowhere usa...
@@superman9772starter home is boomer bullshit and why we have so many living on the streets.
Your neighbor's behavior can effect your home's value. HOA's exist primarily to maintain property values and to keep someone from parking a wreak in their driveway across the street, making it impossible for you to sell your home because no one wants to live next to a junk yard.
When has an HOA ever NOT screwed over owners.
In this case, the jury really screwed the home owner unfortunately. My number one rule, never rule in favor of institutions.
You only hear the stories where the HOA screws things up.
Hoa's should be illigal.
You only hear about the HOAs that are bad actors; there are over 370,000 HOAs in the U.S. Most are just doing their jobs, and when homeowners stay involved (attend HOA meetings, review annual financial statements, work with their neighbors to oust bad actors on the board, etc.) they work well.
It is inarguable that SOME HOAs have been bad actors (frivolous rules, poor financial management, trying to impose HOA rules on non-HOA properties, etc.). But the majority are doing exactly what they're created for - maintaining shared/public use facilities.
Don't get me wrong. I moved from my last property (part of an HOA) because I wasn't a fan of the HOA. I just don't think we should paint all HOAs with the same brush, without suggesting an alternate arrangement that distributes the cost of maintenance equitably among property owners. I'm still waiting to hear a suggestion for this ;-)
@@michaelelliott8350 not true at all, most if not all people don't post stuff online or have the means or will to fight. The "doing their jobs" is such BS. I've known people in hoas that would do all kinds of crap and change rules that wasn't positive but only what a small group wanted.
This happened in Charlotte. The Condo was more like a hotel in that the doors are facing into a communal hallway. As such the association stated that to maintain privacy of all residents they did not want the camera. Additionally, none of this enters into a public space. The hallway is interior to the condo, as such is considered private property of the Association.
Thanks, that adds a lot of missing context.
Of course the HOA has no high resolution camera coverage in that hallway. And thieves absolutely will enter into that hallway even if it’s locked and such. And if something major happens like a break-in, the people living there will love the footage from a doorbell camera that is at the right level to identify people. So the HOA has to either invest in good camera coverage in that hallway - not cheap, or they are undermining the security posture of the residents.
Thanks for the context, does explain things a little. Still, poor lady just wants a sense of security after going through such trauma, hope she moves into a secure environment that allows her cameras oof
Thanks, I was picturing it across a public street and was confused as you can legally record anything in public.
Ring cameras also record audio. That would be essentially bugging the hallway. I could see people having a major problem with it.
Starting July 1, 2024, Florida thankfully enacted new legislation that limits HOAs power. HOAs members now have to go through mandatory training to better understand the limitations of HOA authority. Too many HOA members let their position swell their egos into thinking they are almighty.
There’s nothing good about HOA’s
I tend to side with the ones protecting the privacy of residents.
But I’m still a fan of living in a free country. I understand I’m in the minority on this these days.
Cletus, Billy Bob, Bobby Lee, and a dog named Boone.
there are some good things about hoas but only when they are properly regulated and restricted in actions they can take in michigan hoas are severely restricted and regulated
HOA concept is OK, you don't want people doing crazy things to their property that brings down value of everyone else's property. The property is that they've been given way too much power
I'm glad that at a young age I learned about how petty a HOA can when I rented a condo with a couple other people. As everyone says, forget about it. No HOA.
The no hotel rule? That is not being petty, that is a common rule to protect owner occupiers from their property being turned into a flop house. Condos are supposed to be occupied by owners, but normally there is a hardship rule that allows a certain percertage to be rented out temporarily until the units can be sold. Having multiple unrelated individuals move into one of those units is NOT what the rest of the residents want or allow.
@@Tugela60 It had nothing to do with us renting. It was allowed.
With all crazy stuff that some HOA are doing, this is actually very reasonable case. Justice is served, she is wrong, and HOA is right here. Amount of people in comments dumping on this HOA is maddening,
THIS is why someone invented the "peephole camera" that replaces the ubiquitous door peek hole...
That would requier a hole drilled into the door. That may be a violation (modifying the exterior). But if allowed, then it would absolutely be no different than the ring camera. Same video of the same area.
@@danburch9989ring makes a camera that slides through the peep hole camera, no drilling required.
@@idrathernot_2IF the peephole is there. If the peephole is not there, drilling is required.
Either way, I would bet there is some provision for requesting a waiver to install a peephole, but using a camera instead.
They also make a video camera that looks through that hole and looks invisible from the outside.
@@danburch9989 The peephole has been a standard part of exterior doors for decades.
Some years ago I was working in a court wherein we heard HOA cases every Thursday afternoon. This was a weekly scheduled calendar event. The cases were incredibly weird and varied greatly. There was no shortage of complaints from both the HOA and the residents. I made up my mind that I would NEVER own a piece of property subject to HOA rules. Fees go up and issues increase....
She was offered a settlement and she refused hoping that there would be 12 reasonable citizens in her state on the jury. She must not have been out of her house for the past ten years.
Finding 12 reasonable citizens in this day and age for anything is nigh impossible.
The unfortunate thing is she had options to get out of this but didn't take it (you can get less visible peekhole camera that simply replace the view hole of your door and install cameras inside and outside in consealed location if possible ) I agree it wasn't worth the 170k risk
😂
Interpreting the law as a juror isn't always about just using your common sense to do what u feel is right. It's about understanding contract law, precedent, etc.
They sound reasonable. The rules said no camera pointing certain ways. The HOA also gave her a fair offer of taking it down and no fee. She refused.
If I sign a contract with you and I do something that clearly breaks that contract and there are fees for that, shouldn't I have to pay you?
I hate HOAs far more than most people but she agreed to the HOA.
The 12 jurors based on everything we heard sounds fair.
Well.. what do you expect... it's an HOA...
I don't see how anyone on a jury would side with an HOA.
The jury voted to protect the criminals especially the kind that SA women
Some people think Big Brother cares about them too! 😂🤣😂🤣
@@SpeedDeamon95 Unfortunately, it's not about siding with anyone. It about the contract that she entered into by joining the HOA. I hope people become more aware of them before becoming bedazzled by the dwelling of interest.
All it takes is the judge to say "you must follow the letter of the law" and they do it. Most people have no idea that they can vote "not guilty" for any reason they please, but most people are sheeple.
On this I certainly would. She signed a contract. End of Discussion.
" In the United States, laws regarding filming people in public can vary by state and federal law, and depend on the specific situation. Generally, it's legal to film someone in public if they don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy. This expectation can depend on where, who, and why the filming is taking place. For example, it's not illegal to film someone in a public place if they are visible and audible, especially if they don't seem to expect privacy. However, recording someone in a private setting, like a bathroom or changing area, without their knowledge is illegal. "
If the argument was made on the fact that the neighbors didn't like that they were being recorded while in a public space and not the fact that the ring camera was somehow violating a provision listed in the bylaws it seems like an unreasonable verdict the jury arrived at.
If she had just taken the camera down, she could have used the money she saved to buy a place without an HOA.
Good one
But she wouldn't have felt safe. Ya know, the number one issue women vote for.
no house in the US is $173,000
@@justsumnameIf she bought a new place somewhere else, she could have construction done to make it feel safe if no HOA is involved. Cameras, barred windows, a steel door, etc.
@@MrSimondaniel3there are houses for that much. Just not livable houses.
only a fool would buy property with a HOA.
And they keep doing it.
I have bought in neighborhoods with HOAs and glad of it. I don't want neighbors who leave broken washing machines in the front yard.
Agreed, will never buy anything with a HOA
@@briandeaton3550Don't amend your property to better suit your needs. Dictate what others can do on their nearby properties instead.
The problem is you cannot buy new and not have an HOA.
I am SO GLAD I don't have to deal with a stinking HOA.
If I had the money I would own the entire neighborhood and make sure I owned the street too. No HOA, no HOA Karens, no HOA Nazis, no people parking in front of my house, no kids, no barking dogs, no noise, no houses painted butt ugly colors.
I would appeal.
There is no expectation of privacy in public, if the camera is pointing outside.
Two lessons to learn here. Never buy into an HOA and make your own Justice. That's the only way you'll ever get it.
She absolutely deserved to lose here, and justice was served just fine. She agreed to respect neighbors' privacy, in writing, then reneged on her promise and spied on them anyway. She's a liar, and a fraudster. And even then was given multiple opportunities to compromise and stuck to being a liar and a fraudster.
@@gavinjenkins899 Bingo!
@@gavinjenkins899 there is no expectation of privacy in public spaces, you can't agree to something that's wrong
@@mundanestuff Obviously you agreeing to it itself CREATED the expectation. There's no DEFAULT expectation, but there is a clear expectation of XYZ now that you signed a document saying that XYZ would be respected by you. There's no DEFAULT expectation of me randomly giving you $100 for no reason, but if I'm your employer and entered a contract with you where you worked enough hours for that pay, then I am now obligated to pay you $100.
My family once put a peep hole camera on my mom’s apartment’s door, so she could see on the screen inside who was at the door and record if needed. When she moved out we reinstalled the old unit. This might be a more appropriate solution to this story for anyone else facing this issue.
I have 16 cameras in my rented apartment, inside and out, total. In my last apartment, same owner, I only had 4 outside because the layout was different and that was all I needed. I caught several burglary attempts and car break-ins. The landlord never complained. In our lake house, we had about 40 total, inside and out. We demolished that house so we don't still have it (have the property) but I'm a firm believer in good surveillance of my property. Of course a mask defeats all that so combine it with a couple good dogs.
This seems like the best solution. No one would really be aware of a peephole camera, unless they got a bit too close to it, or she started publicly releasing the footage.
Yep that's all she had to do is change it for a peep hole camera and replace the doorbell button that's compatible with it
Not that I am siding with the apprtment complex she had a choice to take the option to pay nothing and remove the run doorbell and now she has won a 170k prize for her trouble (she taken the HOA to court not the HOA they didn't want to goto court) could have installed a peephole cam and would have saved her 170k
Concerning her ring camera recording her neighbors, what ever happened to no expectation of privacy in public?
How can a person be charged $100.00 a day. That in itself is a crime. There should be a small maximum fine to an owner and must go through small claims court to collect.
I could understand, if it was second or third offense type thing. For example, dog poop not being cleaned up at an apartment place. I think with the full details, it's understandable the jury awarded in favor of the HOA, because the person was warned, possibly they even explained she could keep the camera if she mounted it differently. She refused, and continuously refused to take down the camera after numerous complaints by neighbors.
I think in this situation the owner of the camera was clearly shown to just be a snoop or jerk at trial, and that's why they ruled against her.
The contract she signed allowed it.
It can all be fixed fairly easily if you throw all morals out the window.
@@bartdrennon1764 , not all contracts are valid! Just like when a cop tells you about an ordinance created by their office to arrest you doesn't make it a law! In many cases these ordinances are illegal!
@@I__Love_Lamp Brick do you really love the lamp or are you just looking around the room and saying you love things you see?
Completely agree with you. Love the username
this is why i would NEVER live in a community like this.
NEVER EVER!
Wow!! This should be shown to anyone considering purchasing within an H.O.A.
I was paid by an HOA to patrol the comminty of high end single family homes at 2am and cite anyone that parked in their own driveway.
Comical.
If a condo and have security, sue them for not protecting her against the assault.
If you sue your HOA and win a judgment. Then the money will come out of all of your neighbors, including yourself, even though you filed that lawsuit.
It's unclear WHERE the assault occurred. It may have happened at another location.
@@DaveP-uv1ml , that's what it's for isn't it?
@@DaveP-uv1ml Mostly the insurance will cover.
They did not say she could not have cameras, they said she could not have cameras to spy on the neighbors.
They specifically said she COULD have cameras, just so long as they did not overlook the neighbors, so the HOA was being reasonable and looking after everyones interests. In a community your neighbors have rights too, not just you.
This case has nothing to do with security, and it probably is a privacy issue combined with bad behaviour.
So basically the HOA want's no record of doing shady stuff.
Sounds like the current WH.
Jumping over a privacy fence to measure your neighbors grass. 😂
What "shady stuff" do you think an HOA board is doing in the HALLWAY between two condo units?🤣You people are such paranoid weirdos. I imagine you huddled behind your door in a vietnam olive drab fatigues and helmet wringing your hands all day about what the boogeymen are out to do to you. As Steve covered in the video, the point of the rule in this HOA was neighbors didn't want other neighbors spying on them all the time and logging every moment they come and go from their units, which is completely reasonable to agree to communally. Ring cameras right across the hall from your front door are creepy as heck.
You have to wonder what kind of sociopaths wouldn’t want a single woman have a ring camera outside her door…and what judge would say it’s ok. What are people doing in the hallway that they need privacy
So you're a "rules for thee and not for me" kind've person?
I was a single woman when I moved into a condo and I put alarms on my door and cameras inside, because seeing who is on my steps is not going to help me at 2:00 am sleeping in bed. So their alternative suggestion is legitimate.
Exterior video cams help solve crimes, and you have no right to expect privacy when outside your home.
@@johng4093 The law is no expectation of privacy in a public space, inside of a private condo is not a public space. I personally would have no issue with her Ring camera but the people in the building cheating on their spouses probably do. LOL
A single woman can do no wrong. She is a helpless flower, whatever she feels is true and needs protection at everybody's else expense.
There is supposed to be no expectation of privacy when out in public.
Really do not understand the Jury going along with the HOA and nailing this woman for what's going to be over 100k in bogus damages.
@@Tedybear315 it's not a public space. She had an audio/video/motion sensor monitoring a private, locked, hallway that is used by many residents to access their unit.
the camera was not in public, it was in a communal space that she was only part owner of.
@@senorelroboto2 If the condo association says it's not public then she should sue them for allowing the rapist into their secured area.
@@senorelroboto2 But isn't a street public area?
HOA's can be a GATED community in which case there COULD be an expectation of privacy.
A friend had to have four inches of concrete cut from his driveway because the HOA said it was too wide. He had lived there for four years by then.
In other places you can have your four inches of concrete ordered cut by the city. 4 years is nothing, my neighbour with whom we are discussing new fence just said that the current fence cuts one foot of her property and putting new fence would be a good moment to correct it. And we lived side by side for 10 years, and I lived with that fence for 24. And you know, she is actually correct.
I have a difficult neighbor, and a good slice of my driveway is on his property but fence line is incorrectly located so he doesn't know it. I keep forgetting to mention it to him. 😊
@@johng4093 Do NOT mention that to him or anyone else. He could legally and very easily make you tear up that part of the drive way that's on his property.
HOA - Hell On Americans
I've lived in condos like that and I totally get the desire for consistency across units. It's a trade-off and sometimes it kinda sucks not to paint your door whatever color you want, but that is also part of the appeal.
And I have served on an HOA board. There were times we had to tell people to knock something off, but we never fined them. If anything, we would most likely cut off access to certain shared services until they were in compliance (think of something like a community pool), but NOTHING like $100 PER DAY. That is *grossly excessive* and unwarranted.
Best case in this scenario, in my opinion, would be for the HOA board to first understand that this is not only a perfectly reasonable and legitimate request-it would be even if she had never been assaulted before, but *especially* if she had-but it is a request that more and more residents will want over time, so they should just go ahead and decide on it now.
They could look at different cameras on the market and pick one or two models that meet their requirements. If it is cosmetic, then there are models of various shapes and sizes and surely one or two would fit the vibe they want. If it is neighbor privacy, then they could require models that allow you to reduce the field of depth and mandate that they be on settings of ten feet or less rather than twenty or thirty feet. Etc. Or they could approve them only at certain angles, like more of a top down view as opposed to horizontal. Then they let everyone know that these are the new rules for this new, completely reasonable tech.
That's how it should have been handled. Just act ****ing human towards one another. It's not hard.
How any jury could side with an HOA is beyond me. It must’ve been a jury of despicable people
All Karens
HOA people on the Jury
Did you not watch the video at all?
Who makes up the hoa? That’s right, the homeowners! If this Karen didn’t like the rules, she shouldn’t have agreed to them! All of you bums need to grow up!
Well, probably because she knew the rules and blatantly violated them, even after she was told she was breaking the rules. The HOA offered to settle with her, and the HOA offered her further guidance of what she could do to stay within the rules and still have cameras up. Instead she sued them
I live in an HOA, and we have no rules about cameras. I have them all around my home, front, back, and sides. I went individually to all my neighbors within camera range and told them about the cameras and asked if they were okay with them. At least half my neighbors are seasonal residents and all of them plus year-round residents were supportive of my cameras. The HOA also knows about my cameras, and they encourage them because we get occasional break-ins.
Why ask if you just ignore half the people!!!!!!
@@davidtaylor4053
> At least half my neighbors are seasonal residents and *all of them plus year-round residents* were supportive of my cameras.
I don't think you know how to read.
Hoa rules can change....
HOA=problems
Communist.
Exactly why I go to lengths NOT to live in a neighborhood with an HOA!
Buying a house with an HOA is like buying a pet with an incurable disease.
They make ring cameras that fit inside your door peephole and are undetectable from the outside. She probably put a box outside the door. That's where she messed up. The peephole insert wouldn't have required approval because the HOA would never know about it.
Until one day they somehow find out and retroactively fine her $100 per day going back 17 years.
They also make ring cameras that aren't doorbells at all but normal security cameras that can be placed anywhere. It could have been a fancy 360 degree camera hanging off the corner of the building. We don't know, but a jury determined she was wrong.
You could definitely find out if a peephole has a camera in it if you were specifically looking to check that exact fact and had the right equipment.
@@gavinjenkins899 And having previously rented a condo, I can assure you that one day a person or persons that live in this condo complex will eventually look through her peephole to see if she does have a camera or just to see if they can see inside her condo (in the hopes they can find something to turn her into the HOA about).
Never buy a house in a HOA... I'm a grown ass man, I'm not letting some stranger tell me what color I can paint, what I can modify, or where I can park, or who can come over and when... imagine being a grown ass adult and having some lifeless babysitter telling you what you can and can't do at your own house that you paid for.
100k for attorney fees is extortion
100k fees i would be askink if they paid the jury off
As a longtime HOA director who handles legal matters for our association of over 600 homes, I am firmly convinced the HOA was unreasonable when it denied the doorbell camera request. It is a well-established fact that exterior lighting and security cameras enhance neighborhood security. While the HOA has concerns about privacy, the fact is the HOA is not operating the camera, and any litigation regarding privacy would be against the owner who installed the camera, not the HOA. Stated another way, the HOA's privacy concerns are unfounded, and I would argue further they have no standing in that matter.
The residents in our HOA have over a hundred exterior cameras mounted throughout the community, and the crime rate is a fraction of what it is in neighboring areas. We have never denied an application for security cameras a resident installs on their property for the purpose of monitoring their own property, and I expect we never will.
Well, she certainly showed the HOA that they picked the right person to mess with.
Many condos are basically apartment buildings. Her camera may be pointed at the door across the hall.
In any event, HOAs and Condo Assns are extremely different. In a condo you only own the interior, everything outside your four walls belongs to the Association. They decide when exterior maintenance is done and every other imaginable thing outside your interior space. And when they decide, you pay. Whether you like it or not.
HOA is similar except what yours is more extended and what is common is more limited. And indeed, in multistory building you practically cannot avoid some condo structure, while in private house there is an option to buy one without HOA.
One more reason never to own a condo.
@@NoneOfYerBidnizYeah, because everybody can afford to buy a detached house. 🙄
Living under the HOA is it's own special kind of hell
Yes absolute Hell. God forbid you have to actually mow your lawn, pull weeds, and can't play loud music until 3 am. It's crazy how people are kidnapped and forced to build in an HOA and are never given the rules before they sign!
This is outrageous! People should be able to protect themselves especially women.
This poor lady, If the HOA did their job she probably wouldnt have been assaulted in the first place.
Nothing was said about WHERE she was assaulted which i find curious, but I do agree with her feeling safe in her own home.
@@xhandhele Thats true. I was assuming by the wording she got drugged at a bar and followed home. but who knows? I dont fault you for questioning a random woman just because shes a self labeled victim? Ive known plenty who would kill a man to get that victim label for whatever reason.
@@nwerd7584 I was wondering how that happens multiple times.
How do we know she was assaulted. Anybody can claim that. She could have just used that as an argument.
Also, the HOA isn't a protective arm. They are not of police. They are not security. Your argument here is essentially that there would never be any crime in an HOA. That's ridiculous.
@@Ka_Gg From my personal experience the cops arent allowed to come in the gated community unless invited in. So with those rules yes they would have at least a neighborhood watch. The neighbors notice a tiny ring doorbell but not a strange man, sure. and thats if it was at the home, we dunno.
I would argue that the HOA should be required to show damages of $100 or greater per day for this to be enforceable.
If remedy is as simple as removal, then that should be what limits their costs.
It's a penalty for noncompliance; it has nothing to do with damage.
It's contract law
@@Joe4USMC under the constution unjust penalties are illegal as well, to bad that provision is never enforced.
This is the equivlant to saying, oh look we have an agreement which you have little or no say in, and we get to take as much money as we want from you if there is an disagreement.
HOA's are an abomination, they impose rules in such a where indivisual rights are never considered. They have rights which no person should have, e.g. the right to pass new bylaws with little or in some cases no advance notice and impose penalties as such. They can make rules which make no sense, and impose sevear inconvenience or expense on those under their rule. There are cases where HOA's have signed in neighborhoods via bullying tactics. Or where they have purchased neighboring property, or included not connected property that they own in a community in order to get a majority vote. Thus allowing them to pass whatever bylaws they want.
This isn't just a case of not being fair. This is a case of why are they allowed to do this in the first place?
@@mrmotofy you're right, but you'd be surprised to learn that contracts are not above the law. If laws get passed limiting what HOA's can do. Then there is litterly nothing they can do about it.
Just because someone puts something in a contract doesn't mean its right, legal, or absolute. Oh top of that HOA bylaws are a completely diffrent subject.
So, it can be changed with enough support from the people. Which is the very point of my comment.
You could argue that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the fee.
You are just moving the goalposts
Set up cameras INSIDE the condo for her safty.? The idea is to keep criminals out by knowing it's not safe to open the door.
💯💯
Yeah...I couldn't believe he said that.
Shocked Lehto is not siding with the victim here. As another commenter pointed out, there is no reasonable expectation or right of privacy in public. She, however, has a legitimate interest in placing a door cam. And he appears clearly unaware of the whole widespread reality of door cams to begin with.
Never ever buy in a HOA
Words to live by! 👍🏽
HOA’s. Fun. That poor woman was victimized multiple times.
On the other hand there’s some issues with privacy because people have had their camera footage given to police of them or their neighbors without even a warrant
She was given options. Normally HOA stories are very different but they tried to work with her. Even after she escalated things they gave her an option to settle. She passed. This time she is the one who made the situation worse for herself not the HOA.
Or the HOA/COA board doesn't want to get caught snooping.....
Tough luck, you can record anything in public in the front of your house is public saying that they can record your house without your consent.
@@Snake-yx1dqthey were reasonable
@@admiraladama5877 that's what I said
Wait for the judgment then file bankruptcy
In many places, there are a lot of things that don't get included in bankruptcy and I believe court ordered payments are often one of them.
@@patrickbuick5459 that's for the bankruptcy attorney to figure out
Yup, I dont care if I lost that suit I still wouldnt pay them JACK.
I don't think that'll bother the HOA. They already offered to settle and waive the fees if she took the camera down. They don't care about the money or attorney's fees. They just wanted the camera taken down.
You're acting like the HoA wanted the money. . . They did not, and she sued them, not the other way around. She violated her contract for 5 whole years. I can clearly see the party that's at fault here.
Let me posit a hypothetical, IF she had been attacked, or her home broken into, and the camera had captured an identifiable picture of the perpetrator, would the HOA,' still have won' the lawsuit?
Rules forbidding a homeowner from protecting his/her own home, even through the use of NON-lethal force, would seem to violate the principle of "ones home is his castle".
Instances like this is what makes the study of law so interesting, in that it makes YOU think.
Never Buy into an HOA property
She should have just moved out! She never stopped to think God may have telling her to GTFO?
She'd have to sell and find a new place, that meets her requirements. It's not like a 2K fee for breaking a lease and moving into a new apt down the street.
She believes in imaginary made up fictional gods arguably was dumber than buying a place with an HOA.
@@andiward7068 I would have walked away and let the bank or whomever take it. Its not like HOA housing is in demand. At least where I live it isn't.
@@windowshasyou5561 there's virtually no choice where I am in a metro area. It's new construction, historical homes, ghettos and a handful of decent neighborhoods that no one wants to move out of. Houses can be under contract/sale pending within 24hrs of listing anymore. Fckn ridiculous.
@@windowshasyou5561That would destroy your credit.
Bullshit. Supreme court says one can record anything one see from public or own home.
Unless a contract is signed.
@@jonahzablow2132 can't waive your civil rights. They are immutable.
@@andrewvirtue5048 you can actually. If you agree not to talk about something as part of a nondisclosure agreement, your 1st amd rights are limited.
If you agree to have no firearms on your property as part of an agreement, your 2nd amendment rights are limited.
You can waive pretty much any right you have in private matters. Some exceptions apply via case law.
She was using it for her own self defense. Under that arguement, that Ring Camera falls under the Second Amendment, it is a ARMS she is using for her self defense, and constitutionally protected. And you can't sign away your rights. If you can, they are NOT a Right anymore.
@@andrewvirtue5048You absolutely can. Never heard of an NDA for instance?
I have a friend that lives in a HOA controlled environment, he put up cameras outside of his house and was told that it was not allowed but his lawyer informed him that if he was forced to take them down and his house got broken into the HOA was responsible for anything stolen or damaged. He informed the HOA of this and they told him to just paint them the same color as his garage and front fascia to his house and he can leave them up.
I'd have taken down the Ring doorbell and setup live streaming cameras in every single window of the unit.
would have been much smarter than keeping the ring and racking up $100/day.
CONDO. Think apartment building. There are no windows in an interior hallway.
The problem is they don’t work at night because the infrared light reflects off the windows.
@@johnnywang206 Exactly, they don’t work at night trying to record the outside from behind glass.
Depends on the exact rule in the HOA, which he didn't specify word for word. It might simply refer to recording the neighborhood, not specify exclusively ring cameras.
Laws vary from state to state, but in Texas, if your camera points into private space, such as a bathroom or bedroom, then your in the wrong. Public spaces can technically be considered 'private' such as a swimming pool. HOA's, community agreements, ect, can limit what you can record. I have no idea what the agreements are where she lives, nor do I know what the camera was pointed at, but a key point is that she lost in front of a JURY. So there's something going on here we don't have the details to.
Expectation of privacy has nothing to do with this. This is a simple contract situation. She agreed to be bound by the hoa. And refused to take the camera down.
Covenants are far from a "simple contract situation". They bring in many of the same issues as indenture.
I looked up the place. Her camera would have been recording an interior shared hallway.
@@senorelroboto2 Both video and audio.
@@Troy_Built yep, and since it's a confined interior hallway the sounds coming from other units would be much more clear and understandable.
Vague rules interpretable on the fly by whoever is in charge at the moment. That's a big NOPE.
That's simply not true. You can take any HOA dispute to court and have a judge decide, not the HOA board, if you're convinced they're wrong. In fact this exact story in the video is of that exact thing happening. If you're not a fan of judges interpreting rules, then I'm afraid you'll have to move the Mars, because that's true of every human society on earth.
Who are these people that would rule against her? I find it hard to believe there is not something more to this....
That jury totally sucks. F HOAs
The crime is the amount charged /day by the HOA and the fact they let it accumulate.
Rule #1 Never join an HOA under no circumstances
Rule #2 Remember Rule #1
I am old. I raised my family in a neighborhood for 17 years. Loved it there. Then the HOA decided to stop enforcing rules. They kept taking my money though. The neighborhood went to crap. We moved. Everyone moved. It is now a dump. So lesson one, an HOA that does nothing is worthless. Might as well not have one. So then we moved to a neighboring county and the HOA was very strict and they enforced everything and anything. My neighbor was a lawyer and tried to thwart them. They backed her right down. She was wrong and was forced to admit it. Rules are rules. However, the HOA took things too far on another matter and they were the ones who were forced to back down. They had a duty to upkeep a pond damn. It was clearly in the old documents. They tried to pawn it off on some home owners adjoining the pond. The problem was ultimately solved, but they should not have tried to do something like that. I then moved again and this time we had the perfect HOA. It was a smaller neighborhood. Everyone knew each other. Stuff was enforced but it was nothing unreasonable. Great times. NOW I live in a new neighborhood where the builder controls the HOA not the people, and once again, I am in a situation where they take my money and enforce nothing. So there is a moral to the story here. Have an HOA for general stuff and enforce the rules.
I don't know about other cameras, but the Ring camera lets you set the detection area. I've used one which gave too many false alerts because it detected people out on the sidewalk in front of my home. When I excluded the walk and reduced the detection area to the area in front of my door, it stopped recording the activity on the sidewalk. Note: The camera can still see what is happening all the way across the street, but it does not activate the record function unless the person (more frequently, the neighbor's cat) is on my porch and moving in front of the actual door.
This one was about an interior hallway it sounds like.
HOAs exist because municipalities don't want to pay for the infrastructure for a developer to build a neighborhood. Not just the initial cost to build the roads and such, but the ongoing cost to maintain all those common areas. Therefore, if you want to buy a newly built home, your options are to buy inside an HOA or purchase buildable land outside of an existing HOA and hire your own homebuilding crew (architects, engineers, general contractor, and individual contractors).
In almost any metro area any home built in the 1970s or later is going to be in an association. By limiting selections to "no HOA" finding a home becomes difficult to impossible because such properties are rarely available inventory..
Or buy elsewhere that's better in every way. So you're paying taxes for nothing, then paying HOA people to scam you and get rich (yes, that's all they do).
ONE'S Again, another reason i will never ever live in a HOA!
Some observations:
1) $100/day is excessive.
2) The same hallway the ring camera was mounted was probably video monitored and recorded.
3) Privacy is a moot point if you are in a common space. What expectation of privacy is being violated? It's only an issue if the shares that data,
4) The function of the issue is safety. The HOA has an obligation to facilitate safety issues. The matter MUST be looked at from all aspects and not just one "rule". What did the HOA do to facilitate safety?
5) What liability did the HOA have for allowing her to leave the camera up?
6) How is the privacy issue any different if there is a camera on the other side of a door peephole? The door did have a peephole, right?
say no to HOA's
She should consider appealing that decision.
It won't work, she has no case.
In any event, you can't appeal simply because you don't like the outcome, there has to have been a technical failing in the trial itself otherwise the finding is final.
@@Tugela60 My guess is a lawyer who specializes in appeals could find a reason to appeal it. It's her property, and her safety. Common sense does occasionally win in the end. She could also go to more local and national news outlets, to generate support, perhaps even financial support, for her cause.
She should also consider appealing to state legislators to change the laws, similar to what Florida did recently, to reign in HOA's.
Who wants to live under an HOA?
Someone who wants their common property to be taken care of. Like pool, maybe roof of the condo.
Where I live we have a POA - Property Owners Assoc. It's a rural area, and the association takes care of all the empty lot mowing, animal abatement, the common mailbox area (mowing, maintenance) and the parks. They are not, however, intrusive on my house, other than the typical stuff - roof, fencing, etc. This is the most lax POA I've ever had to deal with for an existing house, but it's nice that they take care of the area. HOA's can be a positive, it all depends on WHICH HOA, definitely worth doing research before moving - but mostly they are a blessing when you need them, and a curse when you are wronged by them...
Insecure people who think HOAs "preserve property value." What that usually means is keeping out "people not like us" by financial means.
@@thattinawoman5119 exactly. I live in a non HOA area. Had a family move in next door, and they are exactly the kind of people an HOA was designed to keep away. These people was trashy and vile. They had 4 kids and multiple dogs, the parents was in their 30s and was capable, but lazy, and nasty. Their yard eventually turned into their own trash dumping area. And then comes the roaches and rats. Their kids was just as lazy, nasty and vile as the parents. Then I started finding their trash into my yard. Their trash piled onto my fence, tell them about it and they would try to fight you, and sometimes take it out onto your property.
People just do not understand unless it happens to them. They say mind your own business, BUT when what someone does effects you, then it becomes your business.
@@thattinawoman5119 Same with us. We live on a small branch of a state road with 12-14 houses. However our HOA does have a few previsions that prevent someone from making radical changes to their property. So your are now allowed to paint your house blue for instance. We also manage the HOA for ourselves, meaning there is no incentive to fine someone...
My grandmother lived in an HOA. A couple of the residents had issues with the HOA. They won seats on the board and got to add what they wanted. I made sure when I was not in an HOA when I bought my home.
United States v. Moore-Bush: No Reasonable Expectation of Privacy Around the Home Another case, "no expectation of privacy in public."
Unfortunately this case is dealing with an HOA in a civil matter for violation of bylaws, and not a criminal matter against the federal, state, or local governments, and so First Amendment rights don't apply.
Too true, but that ruling applies to government. When she bought the house she bought the HOA BS.
It's not in public. The camera is not recording outside. The camera is recording inside the private hallway of the condominium building. The hallway is accessible only through a locked entrance door. It is not a public area, it's a private shared (amongst the other owners) area. First amendment protections for recording in public aren't relevant to recording inside a private space.
@@andrewalexander9492 - we are not entirely sure about that. When he read the snippets of the lawsuit to us, it said "across the street", not "across the hallway".
There is no indication from this video that we are dealing with the enclosed areas of the building.
@@Starhawke_Gaming " we are not entirely sure about that. " Yes, we are sure about that. the bit about "across the street" is Steve talking out of his ass. I have seen the news video of this done by the TV station local to the situation. They interviewed here at her apartment. They showed her door. There is no "outside" involved in any way, it is all inside an interior hallway. The only thing Steve said which was correct was at 0:28 when he said "So I don't know if she was living in a Townhouse, or a separate unit ..." Yeah, he didn't know. It's an apartment style condominium building where all the units open onto an interior hallway.
This is why I retired on an acreage. My nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away.
Yeah but most people can't do that. Have you seen recent home prices?
Shaddup, you're not better than other people just because you have some land.
@@thatjeff7550I ended up on 14 acres in the woods because I COULDN'T afford a place in town.I considered settling rather than upgrading.
@@thatjeff7550go out in the country just say 50 acres with house 8n KY for 250K and 3 springs... How much is your privacy worth...
@@patrickdurham8393Can rent out an acre.