@@marcosdheleno Getting one-shot regularly will be a massive quit moment for a lot of casual players though. That vision may not be great for player retention
@@NourianPetersExactly. People may not mind if enemies do a lot of damage but some people want tank builds, although they'll do substantially less damage
@@marcosdheleno i dont mind one shot mechanic, especially when i am soloing a boss. but this mechanic is a big problem when 50 mobs rush my face and 5 of the different one shot mob are hiding among them with a boss with multiple buff mix in too.
Woke GGG and their forced feminization and always making female-presenting characters the strongest in the meta 😤 next pinnacle boss is going to attack with pronouns and all the reasons my wife left me
@@eXileris it feels more depressing in poe2 because finally, after nearly a decade, poe1 few months ago finally cracked the code with melee and it was actually playable they gave us a LOT of rage nodes on the tree, dmg reduction via endurance charges (generally melee but can be used by anyone) and the best of all, overwhelm/pdr ignore. the last one being very similar to armour break except that it takes way less points to max out AND doesnt steal attack/phys dmg nodes on the tree warrior feels like what melee used to be before legion league. a literal meme class
Its funny because D4 had this exact same problem but with resistances, but the reaction from some people is vastly different. Kripp is a real one at least
Yep, Pretty much that. From the start ,even before these vid's came out, i invested in the ES nodes on my skill tree. I'm happy i did. Normally, like in other games (even old ones) armor based characters/classes should be more 'tanky' then staff/wand wielding robe mages and the likes. I remember the term "paper mage" and just as the name implied, they hit hard but were soooo squishy that only investing in HP could make them survivable. The ES based system is pretty good ( as a new PoE player), but armor should have the same function : mitigate damage. And in that, it sucks here. And bosses sholdn't be able to just 1-shot you if you heavily invested in either armor or ES.
This game is a joke. They are making their own fanbase pay to test it for them, but there's too much wrong for it to be ready in 6 months. The shop prices are nuts as well. I'd rather just pay for a game and earn cool looking items in the game, rather than pay $40-75 for an armor appearance.
@@prettycool_guy3516 I doubt it, they've been really good at listening. Kripp especially talking about it is going to help, with his involvement in PoE and knowledge of the game and genre in general.
I knew what I was getting in to when GGG said "we fixed melee in PoE2" - I just feel bad for all the new players who started with Warrior then went to a random deadeye or gemling stream and were like "... wait, they can do WHAT?"
I'm new, and started with warrior. I have played the others too, they are definitely easier in some aspects.. but I still like a classic warrior, even if I have to be WAYYY over levelled and geared to survive.. but it could be why after many hours I'm still on act 3 :D I'm having fun, but definitely there are some very annoying aspects of warrior.
I dunno, I've been pumping on my warrior watching demons die as I yell in their face. Super fun. I'm doing T11s and T12s pretty easily, but I'm sure I'm about to hit a wall with my defenses.
I could see if there were two strength scores, one for 'can wear' and one for 'no ms penalty' with a sliding scale in between as you approach the no penality value. I could see armor without a MS penalty having some other penalty instead (Not sure what to equate it to though, MS is really goddamn desirable from both a defense and utility perspective. Maybe Cooldown rate?)
@@Sorain1 Full Plate Armor should give penalty like "slower movement speed" for characters with less str. In the vision of POE 2 it punishes characters with high str just for an unknown reason.
Armor does not and SHOULD NOT require multiple subsystems in PoE2 to function. Evasion characters just want a bunch of evasion, and the Acrobatics keystone. Done. Simple. ES characters want high ES and the ludicrously overpowered Grim Feast. Easy. Armor characters should not need armor, two auras, a temporary buff, some specific unique, and like four other mechanics just to function on the same level. That is total bullshit. We're already heavily penalized by pure armor chests granting a more severe move speed penalty than any other chest armor type (and the same goes for pure armor shields). Really I'm just mind blown enough devs at GGG genuinely though ES was weak and needed a cheap aura giving you double ES at all times just for killing mobs in a map, but thought armor was so broken it needed to be made significantly worse than it already was. The gap between armor and ES/evasion is just absurd. ES chars can tank slams. Evasion characters can just RNG nullify their damage. Armor characters die 100% of the time. Real fair system there. Delete all sources of armor break and overwhelm from enemies too. If you're not giving enemies "Attacks cannot be dodged" or "Deals quintuple damage to ES" then this isn't even remotely fair. Why does armor get so screwed but other defenses don't?
i said this before, im not against multiple systems dealing with the same issue, so long its not mandatory to have all/most of them to make it viable. they should be there for build diversitym prefered flavor, or simply as alternatives for specific build types.
I don't understand why armour isn't just "oh you have 75% armour, thats 75% less phys damage taken, kthxbye". No it has to be this insane formula. Just require more armour to hit high % dmg reductions and its done.
@@termosica666 The theory behind armour is good, it works better in PoE 1, but the practice is highly contextual, because armour is designed to be defensive against a swarm of enemies implying you'd take their hits, but you still have to be mindful of big foes, unlike evasion where a swarm of enemies would eventually chip away your life but a strong hit would rarely hit you, it's the opposite effect. But the problem is context, how enemies are and behave, how much damage they do and how many of them there are, that makes armour inconsitent especially in PoE 2 because there are less enemies with more damage, in PoE 1 we had waves and waves of enemies, the game had a huge dynamic shift and still armour is contextualized around PoE 1's enemy design
Realistically it should be their 10+ years of experience that wouldn't even let it release in this state. Early access is being used as a term to somehow forget that GGG are not new to making games and there are core things that just shouldn't not of got through how they are.
lets be real they should be capeable of figuring this out beforehand. they've actively not put in all other defences that usually accompany armor and then even made the armor formula worse. these are active decisions that were made. not simple oversights
Let me help you understand the armour formula. So, A/(A+12*D). Look at these two terms in the denominator, "A" and "12*D". If they are equal to each other, then the damage reduction is exactly 1/2, or 50%. You can verify this by yourself by doing A=12*D, then substitute and reach the 1/2. Now keep this relationship in mind. It means that your armour has to be 12 times the damage you take so that you reduce the damage taken by 1/2. So imagine you have 2.5k life and the boss hits you with a poweful blow of 5k damage, you would need at least 60k armour to not die instantly. That's insane. It is much more afordable to get at least 5k energy shield and take the full blow to the face, instead of investing all in armour to reach fucking 60k armour.
I vividly recall Jonathan or Neon explaining in an interview that in poe2 armour will be streamlined and won't be as obfuscated/confusing/complicated as in poe1. He explained that whatever %% phys dmg reduction from armour is shown in character sheet that much will work the same on trash mobs and bosses, kind of like a physical resistance, to make it more intuitive and understandable to new players. I guess they changed their mind? Or forgot? Weird.
I've been playing pen&paper for 30 years and I don't understand why a system is made so infinitely complicated? Since parts of my old group worked for various publishers, I must have tested 40-50 systems as a playtester. When I look at my character sheet and it says that 50% of physical damage is reduced, I expect that it doesn't matter if an insignificant zombie or the general of the undead army gives me a right straight, that the damage is reduced by 50%. Why are we being lied to at this point? If bosses are supposed to deal more damage, regardless of armor, that should be displayed on the boss bar, just like the elemental resistances.
its made obscure so people cant "solve" it. Grinding Gear Games has never liked sharing exact stats to players because players will find a way to break it. So, they will lay a carrot on a stick and make them always guess. Same reason why there never will be damage numbers in POE 1. They arent sharing mathematical formulas for the same reason.
@@HookahOtaku Ja gut, aber darum sollte man diesen Wert angeben, wenn er keinerlei Aussagekraft hat oder eine falsche Erwartung weckt? In diesem Fall kann man ihn doch direkt weglassen?
And meanwhile resistances are absolutely terribly designed in the opposite way. Every 1% is way more effective than the last. Armor gets she shittiest diminishing on returns ever while elemental resists are a stat that you either max or you die which is just as much anti-buildcrafting. Other games have fixed both of these issues and GGG are living in their own little bubble where no videogames were ever made after the original Diablo.
How shocking that GGG still does not understand or care about armored melee. Not only do we take forever to actually proc our skills, not only do we bump into mobs and get stuck, but we are also wearing a t-shirt. GJ GGG, GJ. We are a blind John Wick that takes 30 seconds to reload his gun, while wearing a wifebeater.
@@lifeloverNorris Probably just hard to see the grand scheme of things in limited testing environments. Glad they did the early access to iron this all out for full launch.
@@ThellUndeadll nah tbh they totally neglect melee, as they did in poe1 and that is biased on their playstyle. int and dex characters got so much more complexity and mechanics to play and combine with, it's ridiculous...
not to be defending or whatever, but we're missing some classes like duelist which is probably full of life leech and all that shit that makes melee feels good again. We don't know the other side that devs have access to and thats why they probably said in interview that melee is good. But yeah
@@Se7en7upp Didn't they talk about melee then in the context of Warrior and Monk? Since it's all they've been showing since before the release, idk, I hope melee will be good on others, but they really need to fix melee for Warrior, cause omg, maces suck sooo much.
>be me >pick warrior because strong and to play tanky class >get 10k armour, max res, 2k health lvl 77 >get a t6 map and max it with exalts >go in >get frozen from a mob just spawned and still hasnt loaded visuals >die in 1.5s while spamming health flash that has 20% instant apply >regret >repeat
I'm running t14s at lvl 78. Something's wrong with your set up bro. Not saying this to talk 💩 just saying it can be done. And no I'm not running a build guide.
How is the character sheet so fucking garbage it makes no sense...and having to open your weapon skill up to see attack speed and everything else SUCKS.
No phys dmg reduction from endurance charges, no fortify, no aura to reduce damage in close range, and even with all that lacking they made armor worse, what?! I know its an early access but come on, you are basically forced to go giants blood to equip a shield and max block chance to even feel "tanky"
@@DasAngryGermanto be honest most of the skill nodes are. Or they give something decent while also taking something decent away and makes it redundant AF 😢
GGG does not realize that there are a lot of players that want to play classic hack&slash melee character and not cast sparks of electricity out of their asses
its not about the hack and slash, some of us simply want to be able to stand there and facetank everything while swinging the skills around in a moshpit of enemies... feeling invincible but still being in the thick of things intentionally
1:57 - After that long preamble about being wrong, I wasn't expecting the mistake to be that you were actually too nice about armor in PoE 2. Fucking lol
Its hillarious how GGG left strength part of skill tree with a single +3% to max health node and intelligence part with nodes like 60% increased ES or 40%.I feel bad for warrior players
wheres the promise of the many situations skills builds? i dont see them. this whole game is badly thought through and they just slapped poe1 on top of it in the end game to further bastardize it into early game souls and late game zoom if you're NOT a warrior. thanks guys, really cashed in on that promise. that's why they needed the whole propaganda tour around the globe. for cute graphics and a promise they cant keep...
It's been a horrible experience as a melee doing maps. Before I saw this video, i often thought the devs didn't even play a melee character when designing combat because of how terrible the one-shot mechanics have been. Now it seems that's truly the case. Don't want to hear early access excuses, bcos you can't put out something so severely lacking for melee classes while the range characters are pretty good. Thanks for the info.
@@HookahOtaku oh piss off. annoying s''#ts like u are the reason why these companies keep putting out trash like this. If i knew how bad it would have been, i would not have bought this game.
@@jtc2445 yeah, another sucker coming to defend trash mechanics. Maybe u should also ask the devs why they put out an under-cooked class in their EARLY ACCESS game and asked for money. Nonsense. Keep coming here to talk your crap and i'll keep going. Annoying people who just can't stand criticism of anything they like. Trash game. Get out of my comments if u don't like my opinion.
Armor seems to suck in maps too when bosses can do armor breaks on you and map modifiers that penalize your armor. There are no such penalties against energy shield as far as I can see.
@@CatacombD chaos damage never removed 2x energy shield in poe1 ... and yes it DOES do that in poe2 ... we also have reduced energy shield recovery rate mods to screw over ES ... the problem is grim feast makes anything related to the ES mechanic irrelivant because it doubles as a pseudo leech
I was running iron reflexes and respected after watching both videos into evasion nodes and I already feel better in maps. Thanks for providing good videos to educate the masses
I'm playing warrior since day one and I really have no complaints about damage dealing. But it feels overwhelmingly squishy sometimes. For role playing alone, you'd expect that a huge guy clad in metal armor would be able to withstand a LOT more ass kicking! I hope they come up with something to balance that a little more for the warriors.
I wish they'd remove the minimum attack speed of melee abilities. Idk if u knew but you could have 3000% attack speed and sunder would still take like 1.5 seconds. U can make warrior not squishy but u still just clear so slow and none of the big aoe slams that feel like they should be good for clearing are good for clearing they're only good for ST and it's kinda weird and clunky to me. Like they want u to feel like ur using a giant hammer in dark souls or smth. Meanwhile ur homie is clearing screens with gas arrow flamewall and if anything can even get near them they have 20k es...
yo dude, if you feeling squish, you should try to get max block (if you are doing Giants blood atleast), and there are 2 nodes that give 1% damage per block chance which equals out to 150% extra damage when 75%
It's just insane to me that they made a MASSIVE deal about 'fixing' melee in PoE 2. Just to make it worse than PoE 1. Right after PoE1 had an expansion dedicated to fixing issues with melee LOL.
@@jprec5174 To be fair we dont have other weapons yet. I doubt they will let it exist like this with the attention the game has. Opening EA with mace only was just such a weird choice imo
You can definitely discuss what the tooltip should say in effort to make it more realistic, but good luck balancing bosses and defensive options if 48% just meant a flat 48% in every circumstance.
The problem is, how can you make armour work differently than evasion if that'd be the case? what's the difference between -50% dmg vs 50% evasion? People would always choose the option that's most consistent. You'd need a justification to make armour gear different than evasion gear if this logic were to be removed. Armour being strong against swarms and bad against big hits has the opposite effect of evasion being bad against swarms and strong against big hits, but the problem is balancing, it's just too complicated, and much much worse in PoE 2 than 1 because enemies just hit much harder across the board unlike PoE 1.
gsczo with how many one shots there are in the game, this answer is easy: if an attack has damage equal to your health, 50% damage reduction means it always takes two hits to die. 50% evasion means you will die in one hit half the time. When an attack deals damage equal to twice your health, you will always die with 50% damage reduction but you'll survive half the time with evasion.
@@kekker_ I see your point, but most builds would eventually be skewed towards armour and life, and the moment you take a hit you drink a flask, and to compensante they would just keep adding more and more insane one-shots everywhere, and at that point it'd be frustrating for everyone, so far most of the one-shots are because armours just isn't doing anything, and because there are hard access to life and some of them are big boss abilities meant to force an escape from the player, SOME of them are ok, the whole game balanced around 1-shots is just something I wish never happens.
Yeah it's pretty nuts. My titan has 78% and I still have moments spamming dodge roll and life flask just to survive. Tbh his best defense is killing stuff fast
@@cizzymac If anyone is interested in a really good warrior totem build, check out PoE Guy's recent build guide. He's legit and makes great, budget friendly builds!
Thanks for pointing it out. It's so frustrating to play the game currently, never felt so fragile as a warrior... I guess this formula explains a lot of things. Hopefully they will change it and make it more meaningful.
@@Xyzzy91 My attack range is so big that i evaporate the whole screen further than enemy can detect me, but when i blink to the place where i deleted the screen sometimes i can teleport to death effect and IT'S DEALING damage to me, though im not dying but like 2k hp left, for me it's danger zone.
Imagin making a game and going: We are going to make the melee class ,that desperately needs to be tanky ,the least tanky class lmao. And we are gona make int based classes (Mages) the most tanky classes. Like brother in christ thats some stupid shit right there.
Yeah the devs are Diablo 2 fanboys. Their whole thing is just ripping off Diablo 2 and acting like they came up with it. The classes and balance might as well just be copy paste.
@@zam1007 you can watch any of their interviews or streams where they act like these are new systems all the time. I’m guessing you already knew UA-cam doesn’t allow for links.
Yes .Commiting to lots of armor nodes with downsides when wearing armor (move speed) should reward at least a little vs heavy phys hits. Some of the nice things in Last Epoch is that it shows the formula of most of the stats. Make the same in PoE 2 in regards of armor and show how much it reduces but with some example numbers so it's more clear to understand.
@@xxxxdddddss You don't have to stick to witch line of skill tree you can make your way down to warrior part of tree. :) That said it would take a while to make it down and you sacrifice other things for that in skill tree.
I don't understand why this game can't have an armor/resist system similar to like most MMOs or other RPGs. Why is so going from 0% to 10% resistance almost 3x as effective as going from 65% to 75% resistance? Your "effective health" like grows EXPONENTIALLY int his game. The more imbalanced things become, the more a handful of builds will only be viable, the more they balance the game around those builds, and screw 99% of all other builds.
I saw all those recoup nodes and wanted to try it out once templar/druid were in the game. I was going to use Wandering Reliquary but I guess Cloak of Flame is just better since you actually have to survive a hit to heal from it lol
I'll add another thing, Chaos damage is extremely painful to armour stackers because none of it is mitigated and it's literally impossible to stack enough HP to tank them. In PoE1 you could get TONS of life+regen+recoup so it was feasible to eventually do it, but not in PoE2. There's a mob in Mire (jungle huts with LONG connecting bridges) that has a bow attack that INSTANTLY hits you with physical damage with a really high crit chance (easy to tell because your character flinches) and leave a trail of explosive purple flowers in the ground. If the first hit crits, you are screwed, and if you are in the bridge, you are dead because the explosive flowers leave a looooooooong trail that goes even behind you so you literally cannot escape. It's particularly bad because some times those mobs are inside buildings and you cannot even see them coming from a bridge but they can shoot you. Bring back endurance charges dmg mitigation or make it so every physical skill that slows you down grants you damage reduction. I really cannot imagine how "duelists" are going to be built because the only reason Merc is playable is that you can shoot far before the enemies reach you. Also, they HAVE to pick their melee nodes in the STR section of the tree, so reaching for good EV nodes it's going to be suuuper painful.
@@henus123 I think it's okay to not be smashing everything as long as you're having fun and can survive, the problem is investing in warrior is such a high cost for a horrible experience until you get that peak.
I think armor should be simplified into a basic logarithmic curve that approaches 90% physical resistance at its limit (infinity). So the % physical reduction on stat screen is what you see is what you get, but have diminishing returns as more armor is added. It would be easy to balance the formula to adjust the curve, without any weird mechanics
But this means you no longer get 1 shot by bosses and everyone would run armor. The only way to get armor to work is to cap it at a true 50% maybe with some rare overcap mechanics as chase affixes on gear (like 2% overcap armor mitigation). The problem with this is that if getting 50% is easy then this allows str side of the tree to branch out into other forms of mitigation or go glass cannony. I don't think this is a problem imo, melee should do the most damage in the game because it's at most risk. And at 50% mitigation you're better off investing in regen and life flask charges.
Evade+ armor is probably the worst armor combination. I'd sooner go Evade/ES. If you get hit or put evade. If you don't evade and get hit hard you mitigate as much as you would have if you were pure armor.
@ yes agreed the armor comes from a passive node based off my evasion rate, so currently the state of the game makes builds like mine, pretty garbage for anything above a T13
They definitely need to fix armour before they add the druid, templar, marauder, and duellist. Or rebalance end game famage and tone down es. That would work too.
It also doesn't help that enemies have either similar, or higher stats than PoE1 (according to PoEEdb/Poe2db). Meaning defense has been reduced, while enemies hit for the same damage, or more.
Why do melees have to care about accuracy? Why isn't that something only a projectile-based build would care about? Not only we need to stay and tank all hits directly and still have less overall AoEs, why do we still keep missing attacks and hit for nothing? Investing on accuracy stat and dex is so brutally annoying especially if you're a heavy str character, I always get the "your hits can't miss but has no critical" keystone because otherwise it becomes very annoying to play, I used to have the same issue in PoE 1 when making my juggernouts. Melees should have at least some innate advantage, literally something, ranged characters can't just do better at everything, for example the innate advantage of a ranged character is... range, wow, shocking, but they still benefit from defenses, AoEs, and all the game has to offer, now why can't a melee get something that is clearly advantageous for them? They should be ones with more accessible AoEs, they should be the ones not having to care about accuracy (how can you even miss a slam), and so on. This game should also have a stamina bar, and no, I'm not joking, maybe a default of 30 and players spend 10 for a dodge roll, that way anyone willing to invest more on stamina can dodge roll more often, and even make dodge rolls slightly better and push skeletons away please. That way the whole game should be balanced around not everyone using dodge roll for everything, it should be a niche of gameplay that you can invest and make builds around, like the current shield, which is an awesome tool to have for players who wish to use that more often than others. I know they tried to run away from Dark Souls, but the truth is that even Dark Souls had stamina for a f**king reason. Stamina in PoE would just encourage more strafing and less need to make the game super punishing if you don't dodge roll constantly, even though I LOVE dodge rolls in PoE 2, I just don't think that forcing the whole game to be balanced around that will make most people game happy in the long run, if you wanna make your melees betters at dodge rolls, you do that, if you don't, then enjoy those 3 dodge rolls before a recovery period, it's that simple, and no cooldowns obviously.
Stamina might be a pretty good idea for poe2. As for innate melee advantages I agree there should be more. I feel like it already has some, for example much better AoE. Maybe sorc spark and witch firewall+srs fills the screen but it doesn't do as much burst damage as a warrior boneshatter. Those combo hits are insane, if a bit inconsistent.
POE 2 will always revolve dodge rolls. Get with the program, its not gonna go away. This is fundamental. Your choice is to reroll to range, quit, or POE 1. They will obviously address the big concerns but they are not moving away from forcing you to dodge roll to avoid one shots. Ever. Kripp will never truly get that you will never be able to just stand there and tank all the boss damage and also blow up said boss.
@@HookahOtaku I like dodge rolls, it's well implemented and feels good, my concern is tying the game's difficulty around it too much, it'd be like asking every single build to carry a shield in order to survive, but no, if shields exist to serve a specific purpose to be invested on builds, I wish the same for dodge rolls. The stamina bar just limits the frequency, so that the overall enemy aggression can reduced and players willing to have more be rewarded for doing so. It's just a random throwaway suggestion that I've been feeling from playing the game a lot.
Yeah logic wise doesn't make sense a giant barbarian with a giant club missing a zombie in front of him. Miss mechanics in every game should be a range thing, not Melee.
I was running almost 40k armor while in map on my Titan (with the node that gives increased armor for rage and scavanged plating) and even that amount wasn't really doing it. Going for more maximum life with an item like Morior Invictus and going for very high max resists (i have 83% max res on elemental damage) and like 10k armor (20k while in the flow of the map) makes me feel like i'm immortal in the map compared to the 40k armor setup (and this is without a shield, I can still add block if I feel like it). There is almost zero difference in the highest maps between 40k and 10k armor, and for bosses you want % reduced phys anyway (mainly from the shield and from the unique helmet, it's just better than any kind of armor stack you can attempt).
ya i tried high armor, my end route on my warrior was 3.8k hp, 13k armor, 75% block, sadly only 75% all res (work in progress). my 89 slam titan clears 15s fairly easily.
To think that a single and simple game mechanic (dodge roll) is having such a huge impact, to the point of armor being useless against high damage. I suppose it makes sense as (as stated by many and by krip) the game truly is balanced around the roll. The question is, do the devs buff armor to the point of dodge rolling not mattering as much, or will it somewhat stay like this? I can see armor staying weak against high boss damage.
There is literally a node for warriors to increase stun threshold and remove the ability to dodge roll... They obviously intended warriors to be able to play without dodge roll, yet warriors need to dodge the most since they can't even do damage without a 3 second wind up or going directly in the face of all enemies.
@@Lolatyou332and yet if you str stack you can take the 3 stun threshold pr str then the threshold% based on rage and never have to worry about stun again
Getting attacked by a grouip of ranged while charging up a sunder sometimes already kills me or atleast brings me to the point I pop a mandatory flask when I see the projectiles come at me.. it's ridiculous, even the leap jump ability has a small buildup where you sometimes already can take quite some damage either by jumping out, or in. The mobs have a much higher range of vision so just running around and carefully exploring is already a dodgefest by itself. Tower maps you cant even see what mobs are inside until you're right atthe door.. yea try that with a warrior and you get iceblasted instakilled by a group of icemonks. The only way for me to do those is to peek and run back and lure them to actually get the enemies in vision, this doesn't feel very warrior to me, but if I don't high change I just get instashot by all the crap coming at you.
That explains so well why I'm getting gibbed by the Chaos Trial bosses despite having huge armor mitigation, I had no idea. I get that they want you to keep dodging the really big hits and not just facetank literally everything, but armor doing LESS against massive hits, which is probably the mean reason you're stacking it in the first place, just feels bad. Let's hope GGG does address this in a decent way. At the very least the mitigation drop-off should be less extreme the higher the incoming damage compared to your armor.
I doubt they do anything about this with how backwards PoE 2 feels on certain aspects but thanks for the breakdown i will need to figure out how to fix my defense now
Thanks for your series of videos on this, I was one of those new players who assumed I was getting 65% physical damage reduction then wondering why I was getting oneshot by every physical attack i took... switched to a MOM build and I only get oneshot 75% of the time now :)
The way this game plays and these systems work is as if they haven't even tested these obvious things that players came across in a week of gameplay during 5+ years of development :D D4 Bad but PoE 2 bad as well apparently, i see no difference really, they failed with even the most core mechanics after a decade of developing the first game. Only the biggest glazers will disagree.
@@DoctorStrange01 My man the game is in EA and has been out two weeks. Years of development does not equal years of gameplay and testing. I would also assume they are using EA to test out their knowledge and let other players fine tune it and see what needs to be changed. As for the core gameplay, graphics, art, music and content the game is on top tier level already, so just imagine what release will be like. Still to come that they also worked on for 5 years is 6 other classes, 3 acts, more endgame content etc.
@@bowtieism3 "My man the game is in EA and has been out two weeks. Years of development does not equal years of gameplay and testing." No you are right and things will naturally change. But how can the devs even miss something like this, its the exact same thing as with drop rate, it was atrocious on release and they've changed it. It wouldn't have taken "years" of testing to figure out something is wrong with both armor and droprate
So I decided to try out the dress.. I literally dropped by health to 2.3k from 3k, maxed out fire to 90%, armor went from 20k to 10k. Now I'm tankier with less health and I can completely ignore fire damage such as magna barrier, exploding corspes, meteorites, fire orbs (the ones that rares generate). armor is trash, better to just drop armor entirely and switch to evasion, there is even an evasion node on the tree near the warrior side that gives 8% increased chance to evade.
Didn't need a chart to tell this, every single person even with their own eyes can tell that Warrior takes as much damage as any other class without armor. That's the sad part, you need need a excel sheet to tell people it's worthless.
How to solve this? There are a couple ways to do it : 1. Add %max life to all of armor nodes, so armor and life is interconnected, as they are actually connected in mechanic 2. Add Notable or Keystone near melee characters that give % phys taken as non chaos element. We have one near merc/huntress. GGG should add another. 3. Change how armour calculate. This is harder but i think, having armour effectiveness reduce each time you level up is dumb as fuck. Make it like resistance : you have specific time and value it reduce when you reach map 4. Make melee skills has additional PDR or Less damage taken when cast. We have stun immune support for that, and it is shit. You are trading 10-20% additional for defense that doesn't matter at all. 5. Add back concept such as fortify and the latest endurance charge. I kinda understand on endurance charge and why it do not give inherent buff, but the buff can be applied to another way (support gems, passive, ascendancy etc). Titan and warbringer has shit ascendancy anyway (do you see encased in jade? Shit passive. That body armor node on titan? Nobody takes that.
Point 3 is irrelevant. Armour isn't based on level it's based on damage. The number showing on the character sheet is just an estimate of what it protects from same level enemies. The percent on the character sheet is not used in any formula, it's just an estimate.
Point 5: I think armour should be a factor in stun resist too. Natively without points. Energy shield should have to spec into stub resist, but it should come with armour.
@@justinwhite2725 fair point, but then they should iterate that better. When you reduce the number on the stat sheet every time you level, people will wonder why you are being punished when you level up. Resistance don't do that, why armor do?
I am sorry but I am glad that you are not a game designer.. I had to stop reading at your 2. point. You are trying to heal symptoms with weird mechanics instead of fixing the core issue which is armor calculation itself.
@@denny7477 i agree with your take. But sometimes, game devs give the player band aid fix while fixing the core issues behind closed doors, because fixing the core issues will take longer. Making a node of damage taken as near the melee centric class cluster is much faster and easier than fixing the melee. It will reduce the noises of the complaints for some time, while fixing the actual issues behind doors. Or they can just fix the core issue while we are stuck with shitty mechanics for much longer. It is an option either way
Serious question; Being that of the 6 available character archetypes available currently, only 1/5 is pure melee/close ranged. What the sweet baby-jesus on a bicycle is going to happen when they bring in the Duelist, Murauder & Huntress? Presumably all going to be melee based? Are we going to all just go evade + energy sheild, unless using an actual sheild? I just do not understand why every arpg struggles with the armor issue, as just like every iteration of Diablo; there is Armor (damage reduction) + resistances. Also ranged physical attacks should still be mitigated by armor or anything that gives a d/r value to the physical. (Unless the ranged attack is purely elemental.) Anyway, it always seems that unless there is a way to actually get invulnerability, or the % armor value should be a 1:1 d/r against physical value, which should scale to any difficulty, however have it cap @ 90-95%, and make the difference up with total health. There are solutions to this. However it is generally shocking that Blizzard & GGG are still struggling with this concept literally decades later. SMH. 😅 Anyway, Thanks for the post. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! 🎉
Not to mention endurance charges was a huge huge increase to Armour mitigation in Poe1. Losing that in Poe2 makes that even weaker. Its almost a quarter of what it is in POE1, while also harder to get a bigger amount of Armour.
12 for the denominator constant is messed up lol. In PoE1, for a long time the constant was 10, until I think it was around the time they made determination better or added spell suppression the constant became 5.
@@NeverLucky-ys5yy nah, all that node does is put your armor and evasion together to get your armor value. it's like iron reflexes, except without taking all your evasion away. it's a shit node atm.
@@ultra4167 cuts your evasion but 40%, then copies amount of ev remaining and applies it to invisible armour, giving you 0 armour but %PDR based on the copied evasion.
@@BigBruceSpruce it's bad, because armor is bad. it's fine if you get it early but by the time anything above a t3 map rolls around it's bad. basically because it takes an insane amount of armor to reduce the damage of these hits, the armor + evasion together is still not enough to warrant using. it does not give you a static global PDR amount, it 1:1 makes your evasion function as armor while still functioning as evasion. because armor is shit, the node is shit.
I think the problem is energy shield and that it just needs all recovery options gutted. This way it will have it's own theme and not be a straight up equivalent to life but more of it. It should be kinda like a guard skill so like armour and evasion they are all useful but none should be reliable enough to make you immune to all damage.
What isnt a joke in this game? It seriously feels like they forgot everything they leanred in 10+ of years in PoE because pretty much every balance/development problem PoE 2 currently has, PoE had in the past as well.
>Me reading the thumbnail and thinking maybe armor is actually good and usable, thus this 2nd video is redeeming arc >TURNS OUT IT'S ACTUALLY WORSE >waddafak is dis
I was stacking armor and evasion on my Merc and getting 1 shot in t15 level 90. I have SO much armor i didn't get why. I switched to the sorcery ward shield and it helped allot.
If sorcery ward helped that much then it wouldn’t matter how much armour you had Armour only mitigate physical dmg , sorcery ward absorb only elemental dmg
The most important step for GGG to fix the function of damage reduction for armour is to include more than one parameter. They apply a sigmoid function. Include exponents to adjust the curvature.
I Beg of you. 10:43 hit so hard cause I not only thought I could make a heroic warrior, I thought I could also relive my Diablo 2 fantasies of using 2h weapons on each hand. I found out, thanks to you, that armor is broken around the same day i realized dual wielding is completely, and I mean COMPLETETLY BROKEN! All skills except the Basic Attack, Armour Breaker and Rolling Magma interact negatively with dual wielding - Despite the claims of "both weapons hit with -30% damage", every single attack only counts as 1 hit. Therefore you just get every skill to hit for far less damage with no benefit whatsoever! That with the fact attack speed does NOTHING to increase the skill's speed just outright broken most building options, specially the one I always wanted to revisit! I even got images and a whole character built around to prove this and I am considering making a video just to bring this to everyone's attention since no one seems to realize it yet.
I feel you man, but from my poe 1 experience I knew unless you are playing dual strike ancestry, sword and board always better. Pity they don't have any good recovery on block on poe2 either no effective infinite HP.
About the dual wielding two handed, it does actually work you need to times 2 the dps you see on the tool top because both hammers do hit together... But the loss of attack speed not worth it. I use it with hammer of the gods and also add +6 from each mace and it does huge damage. Just the tool tip lies to you
Attack speed does work for most melee abilities but it still feels bad a bad a shield feels necessary on higher content unless you like spamming health potions midair
I had the feeling for serveral days now and transitioned my Witch from ES/Armor to pure ES. GGG has so much work to do next year, so many things are really unfinished right now.
It’s funny, now that this comes to light, looking back it makes sense. I out a lot of skill points into armor on my warrior specifically to help with boss survival. I felt like it always did absolutely nothing to help. I would still have to completely rely on the dodge roll mechanic to stay alive.
that's the issue with ggg, they are pushing into researches just because some mechanics sucks and eventually it's getting prooved. They just don't play in what they create, they don't care and think they know better than players.
@@maskettaman1488 I got 6k energy shield and that still happens around t12 if you’re not paying attention. Freezing is by far the worst though because that’s just a guaranteed death sentence
Thanks for the vid I can confirm, I was stacking mostly armor on my Merc...was going good till tier 5 maps, then seemingly random one shooting started. After mostly changing over to an evasion build so far things are already feeling better, this video explained exactly why. 🙏
Thanks for this, would be interesting to see a similar deep dive on stun threshold as with our current life pools this might be an equally useless defensive stat
My beautiful legend of arpg gaming Kripp. This video literally fixed my Titan. I was getting demolished in tier 9s and 10s with 89%physical damage reduction and the lord only knows how much armor to get there. And I was peeved man. Took your advice had a cloak of flame sitting around. Then specced into 25% of armor applies to fire damage and was talking in t13s like I was yesterday in 7s. Not even an exageration. The ele convert is like ASTRONMOCIALLY better than armor. Still think they should fix armor because they literally killed ele convert in poe1 because it was to good but its literally the only legit option to deal with late game phys damage in poe2. Anyways thanks for these videos brother kept me pushing into higher tier maps
I've already abandoned the game until season 1. Even if everything gets fixed the economy is completely tanked and the only people that can afford anything are the ones abusing 300%+ magic find.
If they haven't learned how to fix this in *over a decade through PoE1* and not only that, *they made it even **_worse_* -- do you *actually* think they'll suddenly make it good?
always hated it when someone in a bathrobe is more tanky than one in full metal top to toe.
i mean, its their design, they want you to get constantly one-shot on every mistake. so yeah. this actually fits their vision more.
@@marcosdheleno Getting one-shot regularly will be a massive quit moment for a lot of casual players though. That vision may not be great for player retention
@@NourianPetersExactly. People may not mind if enemies do a lot of damage but some people want tank builds, although they'll do substantially less damage
@@marcosdheleno i dont mind one shot mechanic, especially when i am soloing a boss.
but this mechanic is a big problem when 50 mobs rush my face and 5 of the different one shot mob are hiding among them with a boss with multiple buff mix in too.
Get good
Turns out in true GGG tradition the best form of Defence for a melee character is to put on a dress
Woke GGG and their forced feminization and always making female-presenting characters the strongest in the meta 😤 next pinnacle boss is going to attack with pronouns and all the reasons my wife left me
Do not fret Exile! Devs love to do these things in other games as well.
40k Darktide: Best Weapons are toothpicks and shivs! Not giant weapons lol
@@eXileris it feels more depressing in poe2 because finally, after nearly a decade, poe1 few months ago finally cracked the code with melee and it was actually playable
they gave us a LOT of rage nodes on the tree, dmg reduction via endurance charges (generally melee but can be used by anyone) and the best of all, overwhelm/pdr ignore. the last one being very similar to armour break except that it takes way less points to max out AND doesnt steal attack/phys dmg nodes on the tree
warrior feels like what melee used to be before legion league. a literal meme class
@@eXilerisfacts 😂
Its funny because D4 had this exact same problem but with resistances, but the reaction from some people is vastly different.
Kripp is a real one at least
I had hope and then Kripp said: "Its much worse" ah shit
Bro. This is so real 😭
Yep, Pretty much that. From the start ,even before these vid's came out, i invested in the ES nodes on my skill tree. I'm happy i did. Normally, like in other games (even old ones) armor based characters/classes should be more 'tanky' then staff/wand wielding robe mages and the likes. I remember the term "paper mage" and just as the name implied, they hit hard but were soooo squishy that only investing in HP could make them survivable.
The ES based system is pretty good ( as a new PoE player), but armor should have the same function : mitigate damage. And in that, it sucks here. And bosses sholdn't be able to just 1-shot you if you heavily invested in either armor or ES.
This game is a joke. They are making their own fanbase pay to test it for them, but there's too much wrong for it to be ready in 6 months. The shop prices are nuts as well. I'd rather just pay for a game and earn cool looking items in the game, rather than pay $40-75 for an armor appearance.
Just use cloak of flame & stack armor from there.
@@schreursalain2968what is ES?? Evasion?
This "not as we intended" is going to hit so hard.
the funny thing is, this is EXACTLY as they intended.
in before Cloak of Flame nerf with armor staying as is
@@earvin4602 this is the likely outcome lol
@@prettycool_guy3516 I doubt it, they've been really good at listening. Kripp especially talking about it is going to help, with his involvement in PoE and knowledge of the game and genre in general.
@@marcosdheleno Y THE DEVS R TRASH
I knew what I was getting in to when GGG said "we fixed melee in PoE2" - I just feel bad for all the new players who started with Warrior then went to a random deadeye or gemling stream and were like "... wait, they can do WHAT?"
Rolled a Warrior day 1. Rerolled to Witch approximately 30 minutes later. Never looked back.
@@Woolie at this point give us totem buffs back lol. Poe 1 slams > Poe2 slams
I'm new, and started with warrior. I have played the others too, they are definitely easier in some aspects.. but I still like a classic warrior, even if I have to be WAYYY over levelled and geared to survive.. but it could be why after many hours I'm still on act 3 :D I'm having fun, but definitely there are some very annoying aspects of warrior.
I dunno, I've been pumping on my warrior watching demons die as I yell in their face. Super fun. I'm doing T11s and T12s pretty easily, but I'm sure I'm about to hit a wall with my defenses.
Exactly what happened to me, switched to deadeye and game became much more enjoyable
Why does armor give you ms penalty when you are already required strength to wear it? Why would a strong character be slowed down by armor?
I could see if there were two strength scores, one for 'can wear' and one for 'no ms penalty' with a sliding scale in between as you approach the no penality value. I could see armor without a MS penalty having some other penalty instead (Not sure what to equate it to though, MS is really goddamn desirable from both a defense and utility perspective. Maybe Cooldown rate?)
@@Sorain1 Full Plate Armor should give penalty like "slower movement speed" for characters with less str. In the vision of POE 2 it punishes characters with high str just for an unknown reason.
Armor does not and SHOULD NOT require multiple subsystems in PoE2 to function.
Evasion characters just want a bunch of evasion, and the Acrobatics keystone. Done. Simple. ES characters want high ES and the ludicrously overpowered Grim Feast. Easy.
Armor characters should not need armor, two auras, a temporary buff, some specific unique, and like four other mechanics just to function on the same level. That is total bullshit. We're already heavily penalized by pure armor chests granting a more severe move speed penalty than any other chest armor type (and the same goes for pure armor shields). Really I'm just mind blown enough devs at GGG genuinely though ES was weak and needed a cheap aura giving you double ES at all times just for killing mobs in a map, but thought armor was so broken it needed to be made significantly worse than it already was.
The gap between armor and ES/evasion is just absurd. ES chars can tank slams. Evasion characters can just RNG nullify their damage. Armor characters die 100% of the time. Real fair system there.
Delete all sources of armor break and overwhelm from enemies too. If you're not giving enemies "Attacks cannot be dodged" or "Deals quintuple damage to ES" then this isn't even remotely fair. Why does armor get so screwed but other defenses don't?
Many attacks can't be dodged... Until you take acrobatics.
Sounds like armour just needs a keystone to make it shine.
i mean evasion chars use 2 auras to get strong ... and ES/ev hybrid uses 3 sooooo ... it wouldnt be far out of the loop for armour to need 2 too
i said this before, im not against multiple systems dealing with the same issue, so long its not mandatory to have all/most of them to make it viable. they should be there for build diversitym prefered flavor, or simply as alternatives for specific build types.
I don't understand why armour isn't just "oh you have 75% armour, thats 75% less phys damage taken, kthxbye". No it has to be this insane formula. Just require more armour to hit high % dmg reductions and its done.
@@termosica666 The theory behind armour is good, it works better in PoE 1, but the practice is highly contextual, because armour is designed to be defensive against a swarm of enemies implying you'd take their hits, but you still have to be mindful of big foes, unlike evasion where a swarm of enemies would eventually chip away your life but a strong hit would rarely hit you, it's the opposite effect. But the problem is context, how enemies are and behave, how much damage they do and how many of them there are, that makes armour inconsitent especially in PoE 2 because there are less enemies with more damage, in PoE 1 we had waves and waves of enemies, the game had a huge dynamic shift and still armour is contextualized around PoE 1's enemy design
Thanks for the clarification. I hope the Devs listen and adjust this… it’s what this early access phase should be about.
Paying 30$ to alpha test an utterly broken moneygrab, fakk that
Boy do they have alot to address and fix.
Realistically it should be their 10+ years of experience that wouldn't even let it release in this state. Early access is being used as a term to somehow forget that GGG are not new to making games and there are core things that just shouldn't not of got through how they are.
I highly doubt that, this is obviously design choice not bug
lets be real they should be capeable of figuring this out beforehand. they've actively not put in all other defences that usually accompany armor and then even made the armor formula worse. these are active decisions that were made. not simple oversights
Let me help you understand the armour formula. So, A/(A+12*D). Look at these two terms in the denominator, "A" and "12*D". If they are equal to each other, then the damage reduction is exactly 1/2, or 50%. You can verify this by yourself by doing A=12*D, then substitute and reach the 1/2. Now keep this relationship in mind. It means that your armour has to be 12 times the damage you take so that you reduce the damage taken by 1/2. So imagine you have 2.5k life and the boss hits you with a poweful blow of 5k damage, you would need at least 60k armour to not die instantly. That's insane. It is much more afordable to get at least 5k energy shield and take the full blow to the face, instead of investing all in armour to reach fucking 60k armour.
just dodge lol
You have grasped the *vision,* but I see you still do not understand it!
@@lukaurovic1761but dodge doesnt have i-frames afaik.
@@MrFroggster it doesnt.
@@MrFroggsterno shit but you can literally dodge the fucking attack.
No wonder it feels better to pair high evasion with a big pool of Energy Shield. Those numbers are abysmal.
It does
trickster not even here, imagine when that shit comes
As a melee all I'm hearing is I don't need armour I can just run around bare chested.
You could also wear pretty dresses for that sweet energy shield to, finally, become the tank your Karui ancestors want you to be
True Soulslike mode.
Waiting for the day they add a node that says "your resistances are increased when you don't have a chestpiece equipped"
True warriors wear beautiful silk dresses and flower-beaded circlets
Not really, armor is still good while maping, while almost useless against one-shots, therefore bosses and juiced up rares. I watched the video.
I vividly recall Jonathan or Neon explaining in an interview that in poe2 armour will be streamlined and won't be as obfuscated/confusing/complicated as in poe1. He explained that whatever %% phys dmg reduction from armour is shown in character sheet that much will work the same on trash mobs and bosses, kind of like a physical resistance, to make it more intuitive and understandable to new players. I guess they changed their mind? Or forgot? Weird.
Or simply wasn't ready for EA and just copy-pasted everything from PoE1
@@erick_ac Yeah, this seems to be a common theme :(
Jonathan is a con man
I've been playing pen&paper for 30 years and I don't understand why a system is made so infinitely complicated? Since parts of my old group worked for various publishers, I must have tested 40-50 systems as a playtester. When I look at my character sheet and it says that 50% of physical damage is reduced, I expect that it doesn't matter if an insignificant zombie or the general of the undead army gives me a right straight, that the damage is reduced by 50%. Why are we being lied to at this point?
If bosses are supposed to deal more damage, regardless of armor, that should be displayed on the boss bar, just like the elemental resistances.
If you think armor is convoluted in PoE 2 you should see the leech mechanics in PoE 1.
its made obscure so people cant "solve" it. Grinding Gear Games has never liked sharing exact stats to players because players will find a way to break it. So, they will lay a carrot on a stick and make them always guess. Same reason why there never will be damage numbers in POE 1. They arent sharing mathematical formulas for the same reason.
@@HookahOtaku Ja gut, aber darum sollte man diesen Wert angeben, wenn er keinerlei Aussagekraft hat oder eine falsche Erwartung weckt? In diesem Fall kann man ihn doch direkt weglassen?
@@DocKotoganaja, wenigstens sagen sie estimated phys dmg reduction, können sich so ja schön rausreden. Schande dass ich dafür geld ausgegeben habe
And meanwhile resistances are absolutely terribly designed in the opposite way. Every 1% is way more effective than the last. Armor gets she shittiest diminishing on returns ever while elemental resists are a stat that you either max or you die which is just as much anti-buildcrafting. Other games have fixed both of these issues and GGG are living in their own little bubble where no videogames were ever made after the original Diablo.
How shocking that GGG still does not understand or care about armored melee. Not only do we take forever to actually proc our skills, not only do we bump into mobs and get stuck, but we are also wearing a t-shirt. GJ GGG, GJ. We are a blind John Wick that takes 30 seconds to reload his gun, while wearing a wifebeater.
between armor and the complete lack of Life nodes on the tree compared to fucking ES. its actually throwing to play any armour base life character
ES also got grim feast which is very strong for mapping, and only 30 spirit. GGG balance team cooked hard in the wrong way.
@@lifeloverNorris Probably just hard to see the grand scheme of things in limited testing environments. Glad they did the early access to iron this all out for full launch.
@@lifeloverNorris its early access anyway, they just test things
@@ThellUndeadll nah tbh they totally neglect melee, as they did in poe1 and that is biased on their playstyle. int and dex characters got so much more complexity and mechanics to play and combine with, it's ridiculous...
“We love melee in POE 2, trust us” - GGG
not to be defending or whatever, but we're missing some classes like duelist which is probably full of life leech and all that shit that makes melee feels good again. We don't know the other side that devs have access to and thats why they probably said in interview that melee is good. But yeah
Doesnt mean that other melee like classes / skills just feels dog.@@Se7en7upp
@@Se7en7upp Didn't they talk about melee then in the context of Warrior and Monk? Since it's all they've been showing since before the release, idk, I hope melee will be good on others, but they really need to fix melee for Warrior, cause omg, maces suck sooo much.
"It's an early access subject to change, our players are smart enough to understand that." - Also GGG
Early access isn't beta testing. It should only be final pass fine tuning and testing infrastructure.
>be me
>pick warrior because strong and to play tanky class
>get 10k armour, max res, 2k health lvl 77
>get a t6 map and max it with exalts
>go in
>get frozen from a mob just spawned and still hasnt loaded visuals
>die in 1.5s while spamming health flash that has 20% instant apply
>regret
>repeat
Accurate. I made it to 73.
I'm running t14s at lvl 78. Something's wrong with your set up bro. Not saying this to talk 💩 just saying it can be done. And no I'm not running a build guide.
@@Valverde713 pics or didn't happen
Just a heads up: get more health, 2k is not even close enough. You need something like 3.5k to start with.
Or go True Titan with 7-9k hp
End of the day, players need more information on stats, the current state is severely lacking.
yeah people could have instantly identified that armor is useless if they were just given the formula. it's not exactly rocket science
I feel like they hide the stats so the players cannot find out how bad the system is.
@@mcb6331 sounds like BDO
How is the character sheet so fucking garbage it makes no sense...and having to open your weapon skill up to see attack speed and everything else SUCKS.
They dont even show u stun threshold 🤣
No phys dmg reduction from endurance charges, no fortify, no aura to reduce damage in close range, and even with all that lacking they made armor worse, what?! I know its an early access but come on, you are basically forced to go giants blood to equip a shield and max block chance to even feel "tanky"
Yea i thought armor was working, but it turns out it was just my 75% block chance lmao
Damn, this also explains why I was getting so little regen at 10k armour from that recoup node. Less damage prevented, less regen
Recoup is also just completely ass.
@@DasAngryGermanto be honest most of the skill nodes are. Or they give something decent while also taking something decent away and makes it redundant AF 😢
@@DasAngryGermanPretty sure recoup is mega broken , just not for armor classes
When you can do stuff like use mind over matter to use your mana as your hp and then recoup any mana damage back into mana
That is also because recoup in poe2 is over 8 seconds whereas its 4 seconds in poe1 if im not mistaken
GGG does not realize that there are a lot of players that want to play classic hack&slash melee character and not cast sparks of electricity out of their asses
its not about the hack and slash, some of us simply want to be able to stand there and facetank everything while swinging the skills around in a moshpit of enemies... feeling invincible but still being in the thick of things intentionally
@@felixmustermann790 GGG does not want any class facetanking the entire game. Dodge was added intentionally to counter that mindset.
@@HookahOtaku It is very sad that "GGG wants" and "GGG does not want" makes the game significantly worse for the average player
@@HookahOtaku
Cool, then they can see their player base fall 🤣
but we fixed melee, its OP now
lol
1:57 - After that long preamble about being wrong, I wasn't expecting the mistake to be that you were actually too nice about armor in PoE 2.
Fucking lol
Its hillarious how GGG left strength part of skill tree with a single +3% to max health node and intelligence part with nodes like 60% increased ES or 40%.I feel bad for warrior players
Slightly different considering int doesn’t give ES while str gives life.
@@Frostshokula 🤓
@@Frostshokula 5 int give 1% es what are u talking about
@UbiVankanobi ur wrong, delete ur poe1 knowledge.
@@missingdays1someone’s seeking attention
Bro i can listen to krip talk about poe2 for hours. What a legend. Appreciate the feedback
Pretty sure you made this exact video in 2013.
same
not looking good for ggg. this is it, they have to fix armor or melee will just feel bad for future melee classes as well
Kripp doesn't actually age, so could be the same video
@@metaminerxit’s early access. It’s okay to complain bye you’re dramatic.
@@metaminerx Bro go outside, drama queen e-doomer. EA game out less than 3 weeks lmaooo
Life used to be bad compared to CI, 10 Years ago, same mistakes again
GGG "We made POE2 to fix melee"
ME "But I got no armour"
GGG "We didn't say we'd fix armour"
Feels more like:
GGG "We made POE2 to fix melee"
ME "But I got no armor"
GGG "We didn't say we'd make melee better."
@@Sorain1 GGG "We fix melee but we didn't want you to play it at all"
@@Sorain1Melee is OP, just use evasion+blind support, become untouchable
wheres the promise of the many situations skills builds? i dont see them. this whole game is badly thought through and they just slapped poe1 on top of it in the end game to further bastardize it into early game souls and late game zoom if you're NOT a warrior. thanks guys, really cashed in on that promise. that's why they needed the whole propaganda tour around the globe. for cute graphics and a promise they cant keep...
@@Topp1ns But I don't want to, I want to play Armour build, Armour shouldn't be pointless, but atm it totally is.
It's been a horrible experience as a melee doing maps. Before I saw this video, i often thought the devs didn't even play a melee character when designing combat because of how terrible the one-shot mechanics have been. Now it seems that's truly the case. Don't want to hear early access excuses, bcos you can't put out something so severely lacking for melee classes while the range characters are pretty good. Thanks for the info.
And when you say melee what do you mean? Cause ive tried most classes, warrior was tough but man monk has to be the easiest so far.
reroll or dont play, its that simple. EA is EA, imagine.
@@HookahOtaku oh piss off. annoying s''#ts like u are the reason why these companies keep putting out trash like this. If i knew how bad it would have been, i would not have bought this game.
@@Hak.Z You could have also waited 6-12 months for 1.0 release.. where it'll be free. No one made you pay for EARLY ACCESS.
@@jtc2445 yeah, another sucker coming to defend trash mechanics. Maybe u should also ask the devs why they put out an under-cooked class in their EARLY ACCESS game and asked for money. Nonsense. Keep coming here to talk your crap and i'll keep going. Annoying people who just can't stand criticism of anything they like. Trash game. Get out of my comments if u don't like my opinion.
Armor seems to suck in maps too when bosses can do armor breaks on you and map modifiers that penalize your armor. There are no such penalties against energy shield as far as I can see.
I believe there's a debuff to energy shield replenish rate but I could be mistaken
@@AnonSeacat Did the remove the "chaos damage removes 2x the amount of energy shield" thing that was in PoE 1?
This actually kind of explains why I didn't feel that much squishier from HAVING my armour broken
@@CatacombD chaos damage never removed 2x energy shield in poe1 ... and yes it DOES do that in poe2 ... we also have reduced energy shield recovery rate mods to screw over ES ... the problem is grim feast makes anything related to the ES mechanic irrelivant because it doubles as a pseudo leech
Homer: there's no penalty for energy shield "yet".
I was running iron reflexes and respected after watching both videos into evasion nodes and I already feel better in maps. Thanks for providing good videos to educate the masses
Same ngl except my build doesn't allow me to take evasion without bricking so i respected all in offense
I'm playing warrior since day one and I really have no complaints about damage dealing. But it feels overwhelmingly squishy sometimes. For role playing alone, you'd expect that a huge guy clad in metal armor would be able to withstand a LOT more ass kicking! I hope they come up with something to balance that a little more for the warriors.
I wish they'd remove the minimum attack speed of melee abilities. Idk if u knew but you could have 3000% attack speed and sunder would still take like 1.5 seconds. U can make warrior not squishy but u still just clear so slow and none of the big aoe slams that feel like they should be good for clearing are good for clearing they're only good for ST and it's kinda weird and clunky to me. Like they want u to feel like ur using a giant hammer in dark souls or smth. Meanwhile ur homie is clearing screens with gas arrow flamewall and if anything can even get near them they have 20k es...
yo dude, if you feeling squish, you should try to get max block (if you are doing Giants blood atleast), and there are 2 nodes that give 1% damage per block chance which equals out to 150% extra damage when 75%
It's just insane to me that they made a MASSIVE deal about 'fixing' melee in PoE 2. Just to make it worse than PoE 1. Right after PoE1 had an expansion dedicated to fixing issues with melee LOL.
it's a little markting trick called "lying"
Imo poe2 is already dead. These devs are so pig-headed they will never balance melee the way they did in poe1
@@jprec5174 Yes, poe 2 is dead 2 weeks after their one year early access period... dramatic much? lol
@@jprec5174 To be fair we dont have other weapons yet. I doubt they will let it exist like this with the attention the game has. Opening EA with mace only was just such a weird choice imo
@@jprec5174 There are 500k players on stream alone playing...thats def not dead lol
I don’t like how the tooltip lies. If it says 48% damage reduction, just do that, don’t make it complicated.
You can definitely discuss what the tooltip should say in effort to make it more realistic, but good luck balancing bosses and defensive options if 48% just meant a flat 48% in every circumstance.
The problem is, how can you make armour work differently than evasion if that'd be the case? what's the difference between -50% dmg vs 50% evasion? People would always choose the option that's most consistent. You'd need a justification to make armour gear different than evasion gear if this logic were to be removed. Armour being strong against swarms and bad against big hits has the opposite effect of evasion being bad against swarms and strong against big hits, but the problem is balancing, it's just too complicated, and much much worse in PoE 2 than 1 because enemies just hit much harder across the board unlike PoE 1.
gsczo with how many one shots there are in the game, this answer is easy: if an attack has damage equal to your health, 50% damage reduction means it always takes two hits to die. 50% evasion means you will die in one hit half the time.
When an attack deals damage equal to twice your health, you will always die with 50% damage reduction but you'll survive half the time with evasion.
@@kekker_ I see your point, but most builds would eventually be skewed towards armour and life, and the moment you take a hit you drink a flask, and to compensante they would just keep adding more and more insane one-shots everywhere, and at that point it'd be frustrating for everyone, so far most of the one-shots are because armours just isn't doing anything, and because there are hard access to life and some of them are big boss abilities meant to force an escape from the player, SOME of them are ok, the whole game balanced around 1-shots is just something I wish never happens.
No one is going to path towards armor nodes if they're not going for strength or fire damage. This is not an issue at all.
And here i thought my 18% damage reduction from armour meant it reduced damage by 18%.. crazy that it doesnt work like that.
Yeah it's pretty nuts. My titan has 78% and I still have moments spamming dodge roll and life flask just to survive. Tbh his best defense is killing stuff fast
@@armtdawg99 which it can't because it takes 10,000 years to wind up a skill
@@Ascension88 Totems are the only viable solution, which defeats the purpose of playing a melee character lol
@@cizzymac If anyone is interested in a really good warrior totem build, check out PoE Guy's recent build guide. He's legit and makes great, budget friendly builds!
Exactly what I'm playing now, place totems and roll, what a valiant knight in heavy armor.
Thanks for pointing it out. It's so frustrating to play the game currently, never felt so fragile as a warrior... I guess this formula explains a lot of things. Hopefully they will change it and make it more meaningful.
I have 5k health and 500es with partial mom, I FEEL FRAGILE.
@gentlehilt9750 yeah always on your toe expecting anything to one shot you :')
@@Xyzzy91 My attack range is so big that i evaporate the whole screen further than enemy can detect me, but when i blink to the place where i deleted the screen sometimes i can teleport to death effect and IT'S DEALING damage to me, though im not dying but like 2k hp left, for me it's danger zone.
@@gentlehilt9750 yep always wait few seconds before looting, you never know. Rule of thumb, at least 3 seconds lol
Yep they will do something alright. More nerfs incoming to warriors. All attacks will add 1 seconds to animation 😅
Imagin making a game and going: We are going to make the melee class ,that desperately needs to be tanky ,the least tanky class lmao.
And we are gona make int based classes (Mages) the most tanky classes.
Like brother in christ thats some stupid shit right there.
Laughs in 16k ES
Tho I also really hope they BUFF life and other defences
just like Guild Wars 2
Yeah the devs are Diablo 2 fanboys. Their whole thing is just ripping off Diablo 2 and acting like they came up with it. The classes and balance might as well just be copy paste.
@@malygos9301 can you please point out where they are 'acting like they came up with it'?
@@zam1007 you can watch any of their interviews or streams where they act like these are new systems all the time. I’m guessing you already knew UA-cam doesn’t allow for links.
Yes .Commiting to lots of armor nodes with downsides when wearing armor (move speed) should reward at least a little vs heavy phys hits.
Some of the nice things in Last Epoch is that it shows the formula of most of the stats.
Make the same in PoE 2 in regards of armor and show how much it reduces but with some example numbers so it's more clear to understand.
GGG has achived it's goal:
0% warriors and 100% players playing deadeye and sorc/minions
What they were even thinking when planning how armour would prevent damage. They even test their game?
lets be honest here. the devs probably played till yellow maps tops.
@@NousagiBrat And only with certain classes.
And nobody played ascension trials 😂
"testing before release? Nah, exiles are our lab rats" - someone at GGG
You could stack armour and life as a witch. Maybe get 3000 HP, 15k armour.
Or... just get 10k energy shield and double that with grim feast.
nah you wont get 15k armor on witch she has no armor at all in skill tree
@@xxxxdddddss You don't have to stick to witch line of skill tree you can make your way down to warrior part of tree. :) That said it would take a while to make it down and you sacrifice other things for that in skill tree.
@@xxxxdddddss bro its poe
@@shawnkroll3950 unless youre playing melee witch theres no way ur pathing there
@@xxxxdddddss =] Why can't this be his idea? is poe2 , people like to get fucked up. It's their freedom.
I don't understand why this game can't have an armor/resist system similar to like most MMOs or other RPGs. Why is so going from 0% to 10% resistance almost 3x as effective as going from 65% to 75% resistance? Your "effective health" like grows EXPONENTIALLY int his game. The more imbalanced things become, the more a handful of builds will only be viable, the more they balance the game around those builds, and screw 99% of all other builds.
Welp... let's hope they fix that before the release of the next strength class.
Next strength class is going to be an es class, so no problem lol
Me, with 75% recoup, hearing that recoup is worthless: 👁👄👁
We’ll just imagine all the extra damage you can get from rerolling those worthless node. Pretty nice silver lining if you ask me
Even 100% recoupe with chronomancer is useless
Taking the recoup nodes during the campaign as witch was all my sustain and very strong, it just falls off later
@@hangenderdon't tell me that, I am halfway through leveling a chronomancer
I saw all those recoup nodes and wanted to try it out once templar/druid were in the game. I was going to use Wandering Reliquary but I guess Cloak of Flame is just better since you actually have to survive a hit to heal from it lol
I'll add another thing, Chaos damage is extremely painful to armour stackers because none of it is mitigated and it's literally impossible to stack enough HP to tank them. In PoE1 you could get TONS of life+regen+recoup so it was feasible to eventually do it, but not in PoE2.
There's a mob in Mire (jungle huts with LONG connecting bridges) that has a bow attack that INSTANTLY hits you with physical damage with a really high crit chance (easy to tell because your character flinches) and leave a trail of explosive purple flowers in the ground. If the first hit crits, you are screwed, and if you are in the bridge, you are dead because the explosive flowers leave a looooooooong trail that goes even behind you so you literally cannot escape. It's particularly bad because some times those mobs are inside buildings and you cannot even see them coming from a bridge but they can shoot you.
Bring back endurance charges dmg mitigation or make it so every physical skill that slows you down grants you damage reduction.
I really cannot imagine how "duelists" are going to be built because the only reason Merc is playable is that you can shoot far before the enemies reach you. Also, they HAVE to pick their melee nodes in the STR section of the tree, so reaching for good EV nodes it's going to be suuuper painful.
i just went all in on int and energy shield as a frost sorc and breezed through the game. all in energy shield all in damage.
currently sorc is equal to warrior in clear/bossing which is very fuckin bad.
@@henus123 I think it's okay to not be smashing everything as long as you're having fun and can survive, the problem is investing in warrior is such a high cost for a horrible experience until you get that peak.
Uh, no..@@henus123
Hate how nit clearing a boss in less than 10 seconds is bad for ya'll @@henus123
Zoom zoom @bayron
Why does GGG hate armor so much?
I seem to recall this exact scene playing out in early PoE1. MoM CI builds and all.
I have a MoM CI armor stacking titan minion build :D
they dont hate armor, they hate 1 layer no brain defense.
if you have armor +some ES +shield +some conversion - you will be fine
Melee literally fucking feels pre legion poe1 melee. this is nothing like settlers poe1 that happened only a few months ago
I think armor should be simplified into a basic logarithmic curve that approaches 90% physical resistance at its limit (infinity). So the % physical reduction on stat screen is what you see is what you get, but have diminishing returns as more armor is added. It would be easy to balance the formula to adjust the curve, without any weird mechanics
But this means you no longer get 1 shot by bosses and everyone would run armor. The only way to get armor to work is to cap it at a true 50% maybe with some rare overcap mechanics as chase affixes on gear (like 2% overcap armor mitigation).
The problem with this is that if getting 50% is easy then this allows str side of the tree to branch out into other forms of mitigation or go glass cannony. I don't think this is a problem imo, melee should do the most damage in the game because it's at most risk. And at 50% mitigation you're better off investing in regen and life flask charges.
Running T10-15 maps with my lvl 69 infernalist feels less squishy than my 89 evade/armour monk.
Evade+ armor is probably the worst armor combination. I'd sooner go Evade/ES. If you get hit or put evade.
If you don't evade and get hit hard you mitigate as much as you would have if you were pure armor.
@ yes agreed the armor comes from a passive node based off my evasion rate, so currently the state of the game makes builds like mine, pretty garbage for anything above a T13
I went evade ES kn my monk.
@ yes I need to spend a few divines and swap my gear over, but he’s a great T10 rarity farmer at the moment 🤷♂️
armour monk, wat?
They definitely need to fix armour before they add the druid, templar, marauder, and duellist.
Or rebalance end game famage and tone down es. That would work too.
well tonign down ES would just make ES also feel bad and everyone going evasion lol
It also doesn't help that enemies have either similar, or higher stats than PoE1 (according to PoEEdb/Poe2db).
Meaning defense has been reduced, while enemies hit for the same damage, or more.
Lol, glad to see this go full circle. I ended up doing the testing and math partially because I was curious about the numbers after your initial video
great work!
Thx bluechad
I feel like that unique that gives you 50% chance to not die from hits is more effective than armor.
Why do melees have to care about accuracy? Why isn't that something only a projectile-based build would care about? Not only we need to stay and tank all hits directly and still have less overall AoEs, why do we still keep missing attacks and hit for nothing? Investing on accuracy stat and dex is so brutally annoying especially if you're a heavy str character, I always get the "your hits can't miss but has no critical" keystone because otherwise it becomes very annoying to play, I used to have the same issue in PoE 1 when making my juggernouts.
Melees should have at least some innate advantage, literally something, ranged characters can't just do better at everything, for example the innate advantage of a ranged character is... range, wow, shocking, but they still benefit from defenses, AoEs, and all the game has to offer, now why can't a melee get something that is clearly advantageous for them? They should be ones with more accessible AoEs, they should be the ones not having to care about accuracy (how can you even miss a slam), and so on.
This game should also have a stamina bar, and no, I'm not joking, maybe a default of 30 and players spend 10 for a dodge roll, that way anyone willing to invest more on stamina can dodge roll more often, and even make dodge rolls slightly better and push skeletons away please. That way the whole game should be balanced around not everyone using dodge roll for everything, it should be a niche of gameplay that you can invest and make builds around, like the current shield, which is an awesome tool to have for players who wish to use that more often than others. I know they tried to run away from Dark Souls, but the truth is that even Dark Souls had stamina for a f**king reason. Stamina in PoE would just encourage more strafing and less need to make the game super punishing if you don't dodge roll constantly, even though I LOVE dodge rolls in PoE 2, I just don't think that forcing the whole game to be balanced around that will make most people game happy in the long run, if you wanna make your melees betters at dodge rolls, you do that, if you don't, then enjoy those 3 dodge rolls before a recovery period, it's that simple, and no cooldowns obviously.
Stamina might be a pretty good idea for poe2. As for innate melee advantages I agree there should be more. I feel like it already has some, for example much better AoE. Maybe sorc spark and witch firewall+srs fills the screen but it doesn't do as much burst damage as a warrior boneshatter. Those combo hits are insane, if a bit inconsistent.
POE 2 will always revolve dodge rolls. Get with the program, its not gonna go away. This is fundamental. Your choice is to reroll to range, quit, or POE 1. They will obviously address the big concerns but they are not moving away from forcing you to dodge roll to avoid one shots. Ever. Kripp will never truly get that you will never be able to just stand there and tank all the boss damage and also blow up said boss.
@@HookahOtaku I like dodge rolls, it's well implemented and feels good, my concern is tying the game's difficulty around it too much, it'd be like asking every single build to carry a shield in order to survive, but no, if shields exist to serve a specific purpose to be invested on builds, I wish the same for dodge rolls. The stamina bar just limits the frequency, so that the overall enemy aggression can reduced and players willing to have more be rewarded for doing so. It's just a random throwaway suggestion that I've been feeling from playing the game a lot.
@@HookahOtaku you say that sorcs doesnt even have dodge roll (theyre using blink) and kill bosses as they spawn.
Yeah logic wise doesn't make sense a giant barbarian with a giant club missing a zombie in front of him. Miss mechanics in every game should be a range thing, not Melee.
I was running almost 40k armor while in map on my Titan (with the node that gives increased armor for rage and scavanged plating) and even that amount wasn't really doing it. Going for more maximum life with an item like Morior Invictus and going for very high max resists (i have 83% max res on elemental damage) and like 10k armor (20k while in the flow of the map) makes me feel like i'm immortal in the map compared to the 40k armor setup (and this is without a shield, I can still add block if I feel like it).
There is almost zero difference in the highest maps between 40k and 10k armor, and for bosses you want % reduced phys anyway (mainly from the shield and from the unique helmet, it's just better than any kind of armor stack you can attempt).
ya i tried high armor, my end route on my warrior was 3.8k hp, 13k armor, 75% block, sadly only 75% all res (work in progress). my 89 slam titan clears 15s fairly easily.
To think that a single and simple game mechanic (dodge roll) is having such a huge impact, to the point of armor being useless against high damage. I suppose it makes sense as (as stated by many and by krip) the game truly is balanced around the roll. The question is, do the devs buff armor to the point of dodge rolling not mattering as much, or will it somewhat stay like this? I can see armor staying weak against high boss damage.
There is literally a node for warriors to increase stun threshold and remove the ability to dodge roll... They obviously intended warriors to be able to play without dodge roll, yet warriors need to dodge the most since they can't even do damage without a 3 second wind up or going directly in the face of all enemies.
@Lolatyou332 they must have forgot hah. Then again its E.A. Its cool to have these options and hope for balance no?
And yet heavy armor reduces your movement speed by 10% (this slows your dodge speed too)
@@Lolatyou332and yet if you str stack you can take the 3 stun threshold pr str then the threshold% based on rage and never have to worry about stun again
Getting attacked by a grouip of ranged while charging up a sunder sometimes already kills me or atleast brings me to the point I pop a mandatory flask when I see the projectiles come at me.. it's ridiculous, even the leap jump ability has a small buildup where you sometimes already can take quite some damage either by jumping out, or in. The mobs have a much higher range of vision so just running around and carefully exploring is already a dodgefest by itself. Tower maps you cant even see what mobs are inside until you're right atthe door.. yea try that with a warrior and you get iceblasted instakilled by a group of icemonks. The only way for me to do those is to peek and run back and lure them to actually get the enemies in vision, this doesn't feel very warrior to me, but if I don't high change I just get instashot by all the crap coming at you.
That explains so well why I'm getting gibbed by the Chaos Trial bosses despite having huge armor mitigation, I had no idea. I get that they want you to keep dodging the really big hits and not just facetank literally everything, but armor doing LESS against massive hits, which is probably the mean reason you're stacking it in the first place, just feels bad.
Let's hope GGG does address this in a decent way. At the very least the mitigation drop-off should be less extreme the higher the incoming damage compared to your armor.
Next patch: Cloak of Flame nerfed to encourage armour builds. This is a buff.
xd
Can you see a new Meta melee builds with a topics "Cloak of Flame required" ? This is the direction, this is the vision, this is the future of POE 2.
Armor in PoE1 aswell as PoE2 is but a fragment of the overall GGG's melee negligence.
I CAN’T WAIT FOR PART 3!! 😝 That’ll complete my box set of the Kripp’s PoE2 Armour Problems trilogy
Thanks Kripp. Can always rely on you to make nuanced videos with data based analysis.
I doubt they do anything about this with how backwards PoE 2 feels on certain aspects but thanks for the breakdown i will need to figure out how to fix my defense now
I knew warriors were going to be shit the moment i read a titan node that gives you extra inventory space. Lol
Thanks for your series of videos on this, I was one of those new players who assumed I was getting 65% physical damage reduction then wondering why I was getting oneshot by every physical attack i took... switched to a MOM build and I only get oneshot 75% of the time now :)
What was the more useless stat. D4 release resistance or PoE 2 release armor?
still gotta be d4 resistance, it actually did nothing at all. armor does work in poe 2 just really, really, really badly.
D4 Resist. soaking smaller hits (that rarely matter) is better than nothing.
A single tear falls from Quin69's face after hearing this information.
And there is no streamer to ask the devs about it?
It's christmas bro.
It’s hilarious when a tank character still has to rely completely on dodge roll the same as a fckin ranger…
The way this game plays and these systems work is as if they haven't even tested these obvious things that players came across in a week of gameplay during 5+ years of development :D D4 Bad but PoE 2 bad as well apparently, i see no difference really, they failed with even the most core mechanics after a decade of developing the first game. Only the biggest glazers will disagree.
Well they both have no cd on it
@@DoctorStrange01 My man the game is in EA and has been out two weeks. Years of development does not equal years of gameplay and testing. I would also assume they are using EA to test out their knowledge and let other players fine tune it and see what needs to be changed.
As for the core gameplay, graphics, art, music and content the game is on top tier level already, so just imagine what release will be like.
Still to come that they also worked on for 5 years is 6 other classes, 3 acts, more endgame content etc.
@@bowtieism3 "My man the game is in EA and has been out two weeks. Years of development does not equal years of gameplay and testing." No you are right and things will naturally change. But how can the devs even miss something like this, its the exact same thing as with drop rate, it was atrocious on release and they've changed it. It wouldn't have taken "years" of testing to figure out something is wrong with both armor and droprate
block?
Flamecloak with sorcery ward is insane levels of tank for literally no investment
...and impossible if playing warrior...
@@Salty_Cyclist melee merc is super op
@@harrymathieson1578 how so?
So I decided to try out the dress..
I literally dropped by health to 2.3k from 3k, maxed out fire to 90%, armor went from 20k to 10k. Now I'm tankier with less health and I can completely ignore fire damage such as magna barrier, exploding corspes, meteorites, fire orbs (the ones that rares generate).
armor is trash, better to just drop armor entirely and switch to evasion, there is even an evasion node on the tree near the warrior side that gives 8% increased chance to evade.
Didn't need a chart to tell this, every single person even with their own eyes can tell that Warrior takes as much damage as any other class without armor. That's the sad part, you need need a excel sheet to tell people it's worthless.
How to solve this? There are a couple ways to do it :
1. Add %max life to all of armor nodes, so armor and life is interconnected, as they are actually connected in mechanic
2. Add Notable or Keystone near melee characters that give % phys taken as non chaos element. We have one near merc/huntress. GGG should add another.
3. Change how armour calculate. This is harder but i think, having armour effectiveness reduce each time you level up is dumb as fuck. Make it like resistance : you have specific time and value it reduce when you reach map
4. Make melee skills has additional PDR or Less damage taken when cast. We have stun immune support for that, and it is shit. You are trading 10-20% additional for defense that doesn't matter at all.
5. Add back concept such as fortify and the latest endurance charge. I kinda understand on endurance charge and why it do not give inherent buff, but the buff can be applied to another way (support gems, passive, ascendancy etc). Titan and warbringer has shit ascendancy anyway (do you see encased in jade? Shit passive. That body armor node on titan? Nobody takes that.
Point 3 is irrelevant. Armour isn't based on level it's based on damage. The number showing on the character sheet is just an estimate of what it protects from same level enemies.
The percent on the character sheet is not used in any formula, it's just an estimate.
Point 5: I think armour should be a factor in stun resist too. Natively without points.
Energy shield should have to spec into stub resist, but it should come with armour.
@@justinwhite2725 fair point, but then they should iterate that better. When you reduce the number on the stat sheet every time you level, people will wonder why you are being punished when you level up. Resistance don't do that, why armor do?
I am sorry but I am glad that you are not a game designer.. I had to stop reading at your 2. point. You are trying to heal symptoms with weird mechanics instead of fixing the core issue which is armor calculation itself.
@@denny7477 i agree with your take. But sometimes, game devs give the player band aid fix while fixing the core issues behind closed doors, because fixing the core issues will take longer. Making a node of damage taken as near the melee centric class cluster is much faster and easier than fixing the melee.
It will reduce the noises of the complaints for some time, while fixing the actual issues behind doors.
Or they can just fix the core issue while we are stuck with shitty mechanics for much longer.
It is an option either way
Serious question;
Being that of the 6 available character archetypes available currently, only 1/5 is pure melee/close ranged.
What the sweet baby-jesus on a bicycle is going to happen when they bring in the Duelist, Murauder & Huntress? Presumably all going to be melee based?
Are we going to all just go evade + energy sheild, unless using an actual sheild?
I just do not understand why every arpg struggles with the armor issue, as just like every iteration of Diablo; there is Armor (damage reduction) + resistances. Also ranged physical attacks should still be mitigated by armor or anything that gives a d/r value to the physical. (Unless the ranged attack is purely elemental.)
Anyway, it always seems that unless there is a way to actually get invulnerability, or the % armor value should be a 1:1 d/r against physical value, which should scale to any difficulty, however have it cap @ 90-95%, and make the difference up with total health.
There are solutions to this. However it is generally shocking that Blizzard & GGG are still struggling with this concept literally decades later. SMH. 😅
Anyway, Thanks for the post. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! 🎉
Not to mention endurance charges was a huge huge increase to Armour mitigation in Poe1.
Losing that in Poe2 makes that even weaker. Its almost a quarter of what it is in POE1, while also harder to get a bigger amount of Armour.
12 for the denominator constant is messed up lol. In PoE1, for a long time the constant was 10, until I think it was around the time they made determination better or added spell suppression the constant became 5.
I love the shield defence nodes written in such a way that they doesn't buff shield's attack damage.
Monk armour ascendancy node looking pretty mid now
Is it just a flat forty no matter how much armor you have?
@@NeverLucky-ys5yy nah, all that node does is put your armor and evasion together to get your armor value. it's like iron reflexes, except without taking all your evasion away.
it's a shit node atm.
@@ultra4167 cuts your evasion but 40%, then copies amount of ev remaining and applies it to invisible armour, giving you 0 armour but %PDR based on the copied evasion.
So is the node good or bad with @Kripparrian information
@@BigBruceSpruce it's bad, because armor is bad. it's fine if you get it early but by the time anything above a t3 map rolls around it's bad.
basically because it takes an insane amount of armor to reduce the damage of these hits, the armor + evasion together is still not enough to warrant using.
it does not give you a static global PDR amount, it 1:1 makes your evasion function as armor while still functioning as evasion. because armor is shit, the node is shit.
I think the problem is energy shield and that it just needs all recovery options gutted. This way it will have it's own theme and not be a straight up equivalent to life but more of it. It should be kinda like a guard skill so like armour and evasion they are all useful but none should be reliable enough to make you immune to all damage.
What isnt a joke in this game? It seriously feels like they forgot everything they leanred in 10+ of years in PoE because pretty much every balance/development problem PoE 2 currently has, PoE had in the past as well.
There is a simple explanation for this. Different teams.
>Me reading the thumbnail and thinking maybe armor is actually good and usable, thus this 2nd video is redeeming arc
>TURNS OUT IT'S ACTUALLY WORSE
>waddafak is dis
I have like 10k on my monk thanks to the passive ascendancy node i did wonder how i still get one shot in tier 2 maps 💀
Super helpful thank you very much for putting these videos out
I was stacking armor and evasion on my Merc and getting 1 shot in t15 level 90. I have SO much armor i didn't get why. I switched to the sorcery ward shield and it helped allot.
If sorcery ward helped that much then it wouldn’t matter how much armour you had
Armour only mitigate physical dmg , sorcery ward absorb only elemental dmg
Then your Elm.Res. was lacking.
The most important step for GGG to fix the function of damage reduction for armour is to include more than one parameter. They apply a sigmoid function. Include exponents to adjust the curvature.
I Beg of you. 10:43 hit so hard cause I not only thought I could make a heroic warrior, I thought I could also relive my Diablo 2 fantasies of using 2h weapons on each hand.
I found out, thanks to you, that armor is broken around the same day i realized dual wielding is completely, and I mean COMPLETETLY BROKEN!
All skills except the Basic Attack, Armour Breaker and Rolling Magma interact negatively with dual wielding - Despite the claims of "both weapons hit with -30% damage", every single attack only counts as 1 hit. Therefore you just get every skill to hit for far less damage with no benefit whatsoever! That with the fact attack speed does NOTHING to increase the skill's speed just outright broken most building options, specially the one I always wanted to revisit!
I even got images and a whole character built around to prove this and I am considering making a video just to bring this to everyone's attention since no one seems to realize it yet.
build variety is an illusion, exile...
I feel you man, but from my poe 1 experience I knew unless you are playing dual strike ancestry, sword and board always better. Pity they don't have any good recovery on block on poe2 either no effective infinite HP.
What if you have plus 6 to melee skills on offhand?
About the dual wielding two handed, it does actually work you need to times 2 the dps you see on the tool top because both hammers do hit together... But the loss of attack speed not worth it. I use it with hammer of the gods and also add +6 from each mace and it does huge damage. Just the tool tip lies to you
Attack speed does work for most melee abilities but it still feels bad a bad a shield feels necessary on higher content unless you like spamming health potions midair
I had the feeling for serveral days now and transitioned my Witch from ES/Armor to pure ES. GGG has so much work to do next year, so many things are really unfinished right now.
The main problem for me is that a tanky warrior wearing a bathrobe is just so lame. It's not how i imagine a warrior should be.
But it is a part of "vision"
It’s funny, now that this comes to light, looking back it makes sense. I out a lot of skill points into armor on my warrior specifically to help with boss survival. I felt like it always did absolutely nothing to help. I would still have to completely rely on the dodge roll mechanic to stay alive.
Devs better be taking notes right now while they're chuggin' their egg nogs.
that's the issue with ggg, they are pushing into researches just because some mechanics sucks and eventually it's getting prooved. They just don't play in what they create, they don't care and think they know better than players.
I’ve stopped playing until full release.
I stopped after 2 days
@ the game is sick, just needs more time to fine tune.
When I type energy shield on the tree.. the whole top part lights up
5:26 i mean, its not like people are getting oneshotted by white mobs in maps, right?
like those snakes waiting for you to walk through a door. you get a volley, get pinned and die.
@@Diogenes_von_Sinopeugh this snakes are rough…
Some white mobs in T10+ can 1-shot at 3k life and capped res
@@maskettaman1488 I got 6k energy shield and that still happens around t12 if you’re not paying attention. Freezing is by far the worst though because that’s just a guaranteed death sentence
@@ThatMemeGaryjust use the freezing charm.. it's the only good one
Thanks for the vid I can confirm, I was stacking mostly armor on my Merc...was going good till tier 5 maps, then seemingly random one shooting started.
After mostly changing over to an evasion build so far things are already feeling better, this video explained exactly why. 🙏
Changing endurance charges was also bad idea .
Only because we have very little use for it at this moment. I reckon further down the line they will be more useful.
From where they sit on the tree I assume sword skill gems will interact with endurance charges in a more meaningful way.
I noticed that also. Endurance charges seems useless. Only i like is the rage
Thanks for this, would be interesting to see a similar deep dive on stun threshold as with our current life pools this might be an equally useless defensive stat
The issues stick out hard in the endgame. Ruined what was otherwise a good game so far, for me.
My beautiful legend of arpg gaming Kripp. This video literally fixed my Titan. I was getting demolished in tier 9s and 10s with 89%physical damage reduction and the lord only knows how much armor to get there. And I was peeved man. Took your advice had a cloak of flame sitting around. Then specced into 25% of armor applies to fire damage and was talking in t13s like I was yesterday in 7s. Not even an exageration. The ele convert is like ASTRONMOCIALLY better than armor. Still think they should fix armor because they literally killed ele convert in poe1 because it was to good but its literally the only legit option to deal with late game phys damage in poe2. Anyways thanks for these videos brother kept me pushing into higher tier maps
I've already abandoned the game until season 1. Even if everything gets fixed the economy is completely tanked and the only people that can afford anything are the ones abusing 300%+ magic find.
c ya
@@HookahOtaku bro's such a delusional fanboy he's commenting on half the comments, that's funny af
He got us in the first half: "I was wrong... IT IS WORSE!!"
Part 3, how GGG should fix the armor and Part 4 would be guide how to build for fixed armor 🤞
If they haven't learned how to fix this in *over a decade through PoE1* and not only that, *they made it even **_worse_* -- do you *actually* think they'll suddenly make it good?
Thank you for the part 2, this was an important follow up!