As long as you have full spectrum and a PAR meter to measure light, you should be good. High end LED lights like Luxx are very good. But as far as thc and terpine production, alot of factors come into place. But really if you do proper plant work, and have your nutrient and humidity levels in your medium balanced, you will get a quality harvest. But that does not end there. You can have a perfect grow and harvest with the highest quality outcome, but if you make a mistake during the drying AND curing process, you end up with less than desirable quality. I love your videos, Debacco! Keep them coming!
I've grown with hps for 40 yrs and will continue as i use the heat generated in wintertime to maintain temps. Have tried leds and spent plenty of money on them but they just dont satisfy my needs. I'd rather replace a bulb than an led fixture. Much cheaper, longer lasting and better quality herbs with hps for me and my indoor growing environment. And i didnt notice any energy savings when using leds.
Alot of long time growers share the same sentiment as you. I mean we've been able to access high quality cannabis for decades now, so HPS isn't some obsolete technology that doesn't work, its just about efficiency. The math shows that you break even at the 1.5 to 2 year mark, and after that you begin to save money when using an LED fixture. Most large brands offer a 5-year warranty on their lights, so if anything goes wrong in that time frame, you should be covered. Of course this doesn't account for ease-of-replacement if a fixture failure happens mid-grow though.
I found a happy medium with led and hps lighting together that the plants respond nicely to .seems after many harvest vests the combination of led and hps causes tighter bud node spacing and more dense buds from the blues coming from the led
Thats what im doing bro. I still love hps idc what people say lol. Specially for flower. I like using hps during winter cause i grow in my shed helps keep the heat up but yeah a mix of both works great.
Actually if you aren't getting better results from Led than hps, it's just a problem with you or the grower. Not the fixture. The depends that you're talking about actually should say depends on if the grower knows how to properly use LED fixtures because you can't just take the hid down and stick the LED up and walk away thinking your job is done and it will now go to plan.
@@demsandlibsareswinecancer4667 well yes of course. But I'm generalizing as to why people think one over the other. Because most do not think of all the variables. They think of doing what they know works and that it works better with one light over the other without diving into why that is. Even large scale growers make this mistake. Not everyone who grows wants to know the "why" and "how" to everything and so that causes issues when things change because they are not understanding the impact that change has on other variables in the room and what needs to be changed to compensate for that change being made. So I agree with you but again I'm just give a general reason as to why. If everyone thought as you do then yhe growing space as a while would be more advanced. And I'm all for it.
@@TriStateTrichomes In terms of energy efficiency LED is objectively better, but if you have to cover a large area (greenhouse?) it gets expensive very quickly so it might still be interesting to consider HPS, especially if you "need" the heat anyway like in Canada. You also have secondary benefits like having seeing true color much more easily under LEDs which helps when steering your grow, finding pests etc.
@@DeBaccoUniversity I use hps in the winter. I use outside air to cool the grow. Id actually have to use a heater to use led in the winter. I use led in the summer as its more cost effective to cool an led room than an hos. I love both of them. I do think hps leaves more room for operator errors. This just works for me.
I went out on a limb,and purchased an LED light for the purpose vegetative stage growth and I will never use H.ID.for vegetative growth again.However for generative stage I am staying with H.I D.Thank you for information on your channel,I appreciate it,as there is so much garbage useless information pertaining to cannabis cultivation.
I disagree. The method of growing with LED is not the same as hps. It's more than just taking the old light down and putting the new light up. If they are new, they need to just start with whatever they're going to finish with. If you know how to do it it is actually much easier growing under LED than it is hps.
LED are better for overall use due to their ability to ride lower WATTS while producing less heat while getting closer to the plant with the same amount of labor... It's overall a better choice cost wise.
Just be aware of the total coverage area of the LED lights as sometimes more a required and growers must balance a more efficient fixture vs need more of them, what is the net benefit.
@@DeBaccoUniversity absolutely! The par from an LED may only cover a small area when closer to the canopy. Luxx lights make single bar 400watt full spectrum LEDs for this purpose. These specific lights are pricey though
And with an improper environment, week lighting, a crappy nutrient regimen and s***** water, you can really F those genetics up can't you? Or you can have a proper environment, quality light with a full spectrum, and you can make sure your water is aerated and pH is spot on and drag every single last terpene and cannabinoid that is possible out of that genetic. Things are only so simple to stupid people. But will forgive you this time.
@Debacco University Hey your videos are great Thank you !!! 3 questions: 1) How you determine the right leaf temp ? How they determined that in that study? (if LED create less heat so we might need to increase overall room temperature to maximize leaf temp for photosynthesis ? 2) what was the difference between the LED spectrum and the hps spectrum ? 3)This question, from different video you had, about nitrogen fertilizer. you said that in Canada, they had study that you can go as high as 200 l/b per acre, how you convert this for practical hydroponic quantity applications ?
Thanks for your interest answers provided below... 1.) This in part can depend on the VPD, but typically 80-75F is a good starting point. 2.) You would have to compare the spectrum provided by each manufacture 3.) This link to conversion factors should help... www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_022760.pdf
Thank you so much for the answer!!! when you said in question 1)“ 75-80 degree”, do you refer to the leaf temperature or the room temp ? Thanks keep it up, very interesting chanel.
In winter, the additional heat of HPS can be desirable. In summer months, that same heat is a curse! Even w/vented hood, environmental demands lead me back to LEDs.
I also can't stress enough that your enviorment is also KEY to success in a quality harvest. You need tio make sure you have good intake and out take airflow. You need to have something cooling down the enviorment and keeping it cool at that WITH proper humidity and co2 levels.
I know that the cost of led fixtures are high, specially when growers has to buy a few, the savings is on electricity,. Way less heat wich it means, the grower doesn't have to run big ac nor often. So a grower will save so much on electricity. Also, led fixtures run on less watts and produce the same or more intensity as hps. Leds you save, it pays it self at the end
@@Priller007 it's not cap, cause it become more cost-effective. I'll give u an example; let's say u got a 10x10 room and u run 4 to 5 1k watts, each hps pulls 5 amps each,that's a total 25amps. Now u get leds, u can run either 400watts or 600 watts led in that room, and get the same or more light output and more coverage on each led fixture. Which the more light the more yields and. Also,, it's been proven that with leds the harvest time periods are shorter by 1 week or more that hps. That means u can add 1 extra grow in the yr. Also u can put 3 to 4 leds per each 1k hps the lights produce less heat, meaning u don't have to run the ac as much, out of hps u might get 2 to 3 good harvest before u have to buy new bulbs, the led chips/diodes last from 5yrs and better, so that's another area of saving. With digital ballast u have to get hps and mh bulbs for each fixture. That's how led are more cost-effective
i think this video should have gone more into the topic on who are these lights for. hobby indoor growers with a 1x1m growing space for exapmle: 400-600w hps would be needed for that space imo. now, if u want quality components you should get a dimmable psu, nice reflector with air ventilation (because without, temps will get out of control, if you havent got a air conditioner) and a good hps bulb. add that up and you will come out at around 200-350 dollars. for that kind of money would will get 300w lm301 fixtures. i would say, LED is the homegrowers choice and hps is good for big commercial grows. but still, wasting energy is always bad so lets transition to led.
I have been using a 125w CFL light for vegging and must switch to LED, my question is which wattage LED do i need to be near equivalent to my 125w CFL (Compact Fluorescent Light bulb).
as always great videos, but after more than a decade of testing different types of lamps starting with MH-hps then induction plasma, then every type of LED and even LEP, we should discuss more in depth some aspects of these researches and tests that are found online, to be correct the tests should take into consideration the best possible setup for each type of lighting technology, if for LEDs it is enough to hang the lamp, for HPS it is not like that, the best setup for a MH-HPS system is composed not only of the lamp but also of a "cooltube" system and an adequate reflector (adjust-a-wing like), with a setup like that the heat, primary problem of HPS, is almost completely missing. That said, no longer having the problem of temperature you can bring the plants closer to the lamp even more than with LEDs, producing the same if not more ppfd than the corresponding LEDs at the same wattage! Then I would add that with a cooltube system the hot air produced by the lamp is immediately expelled from the growroom practically not increasing the overall temperature of the room, on the contrary the LEDs, which do not have systems like the cooltube, but still produce heat, heat that instead of being immediately extracted from the room will remain in the same causing the general temperature to increase! Making a trivial example, it is not possible to use co2 with the sealed room with LEDs and without AC precisely for this aspect, while with an HPS and coolbute that use an independent ventilation system it can be done, saving a lot of electricity! Now I would like to see a comparative study between a top range LED 600watt against a HPS600watt but with cooltube and refector! Obviously very few people talk about this, and certainly no lamp manufacturer, given that you pay 250 euros for a complete HPS kit, while to have the corresponding LED one you have to shell out from 800 to over 2000 euros, it is certainly better for them to focus on LED technology given the enormous difference in price between the 2 technologies...
Flower should have the greatest PAR, but max intensity may result in plant burning, as distance from plant to light needs to be taken into consideration.
When it is a Seedling or clone no more than 200 ppf. When you are in veg it should start at about 300 and finish around 500 to 600 ppf. Flower should start there and by the last few weeks you should be ramped up to maximum output and be hovering around 900 to 1,000 ppf. Unless your genetics and plants tell you otherwise with tacoing leaves or some other response that says too much light.
Can I ask Professor Debacco that if I let 3 plants (12-12) into flower phase from plant age 1 month / 2 month /3 month photoperiodic hemp. Are there any impact (quality) in cannabinol ( thc or cbd ) by every age of plant. Best regards.
As long as the plants are in good health the THC and CBD produce should be a fairly consistent percentage, however what will be different will be the total biomass which will have an impact on total yield.
what says science about yield in terms of efficiency? I am used to know both technologies but when i compare yield from 600w hps to 600w led the case is more than clear in my opinion. of course there are higher investemt costs, but when i sum up future additional cashflows caused by additional yields by led i always recommend to go with led if circumstances allow to do.
i have a question , i am a novice grower i have ended up with 2 cupboards and 2 600w lights, i have been starting plants under one light then transferring to the other cupboard for flowering.. as i have 2 TS600s should i put the 2 together in one tent and just grow plants from start to finish under 2 600w, or is that overkill ?
i still use my HPS 250 watt i got a OSRAM bulb for it use's less heat. it works pretty good but i guess i also have a 200 watt CLW COB light and i guess that 1 works a little bit better but i added a far red light to it so with out the far red light the HPS would be just as good as the COB i think but it use's so much energy damn, it use's more then 250 watts, so thats a bad thing and i only use it when it's winter time now also but i must say in a tent the HPS is pretty nice you just have to get a good distance from the plant so it doesn't stretch to much the HPS also works grate with my MIGRO UVB light, that add's over 3% THC anyways, and you can't buy that light in USA anymore also haha.
Overall 250 watt and under lights have a limited coverage area so be sure to consider how your set-up could be applied to a larger set-up. However, thanks for sharing and hope you continue to get good yields.
Come on doc we all know that HPS lights are hotter use more energy they have to be changed every year just to name a few things LEDs are superior to HPS I used to grow with them but after trying LEDs my temps were cooler my light bill was smaller and my buds were spectacular it seems that the old guys just won't let the HPS go well I'm 50 and I got tired of my tip baking like an oven and my light bill being high as hell with no control over the Spectrum I want it's a no-brainer
First off... lol. Let's not say HPS, Let's say HID. Next, a garden done proper with HPS staggered side by side with hortilux true blue MH with full spec and UV. This set up crushes LED. Diodes are not better than chemistry when you aren't just using one bulb, but getting the full reds from the hps intermingled with the full spec and UV of the MH is fairly untouchable. Don't use the DE's, it's a 600 hps with a 400 MH, but they don't use the full spec MH with UV, AND they aren't vented, so your AC has to overcompensate and drives your bill up, I'm on the fence on rather or not Luxx knew this and pushed them just so they could compare the energy usage between HID and LED and make it look worse so they could sell more LED, as the profit per light is astronomical in comparison. Everything told you is an industry lie to sell you more bulls$%t, and everyone seems to have drank the coolaid. Led will probably get there someday, and when they do, it's gonna be them hyping the new orange red spectrum they just figured out how to create with diodes, that we've had access to via hps the entire flippin time, watch and see.
MH and HPS and CMH are all HID, the goal is to be specific in the comparison which is why the HPS term was used. Your comment also speaks in very general terms... which HPS light, which LED light? Details are provided in the study and should be provided in the comment as well.
@@DeBaccoUniversity oh, sorry I thought I said Hortilux. Though, there are many good performing HPS bulbs, some arguably better. The main idea is that the BLUE Hortilux MH with full spec and UV (I believe it's the only one on the market that can claim that.) Staggered in a garden with the red eye hps gets you the bulk from the traditional hps, while also the powdery mildew resistance and other benefits of UV from the MH, along with being a very full spectrum bulb. My problem with a lot of studies like this is that they compare just a single hps bulb with an led, but thats not what a lot of experienced growers are running, rather a mix of the red and blue hid combined. In my over 15 years experience in a professional garden, this set up slays everything else. I'm not some hortilux fan boy or paid promo guy, just sharing my hands on experience.
First off just saying hid covers three different fixtures with three different Spectrum capabilities. Second If This Were True commercial Growers would not be switching from this combination as quickly as they can to led. If those are the results that you get, it just proves you don't know how to grow with LED. It's not an issue with the fixtures. It always blows my mind when an entire industry finally figure something out and then some Grandpa who's scared to step out of his comfort zone pretends that his old way is still the best.
@@musicisblood2636 I hope you don't use any hoods with glass because say goodbye to your UV if that's the case. And there are UVB bulbs and fixtures available some included with and some as extra fixtures. UVA is just glorified blue. So it's not something only available with hid bulbs.
@@demsandlibsareswinecancer4667 Na. I actually have a UV tester, and plenty comes through glass. I'd heard the same thing so tested it myself proving it false, at least with my hoods. Also, real UV isn't just , "glorified" blue lol, it's actually noticeably damaging to the plant cells if it's too close. I have the UV indicator card from hortilux, and it reads low to moderate UV through the glass, even moderate is damaging if you get it too close, I keep it low.
@@DeBaccoUniversity yes but the max thc is 35% so 35% is like 100% so a 5% thc increase above 20% thc is gigantic the difference between potency of weed at 20% thc and 30% thc is not 10%, it's 50%. a weed who is 30% thc is 50% stronger than a weed who is 20% thc. hps are dead, they are not efficient, and theyre spectrum can be reproduced with leds the only avantage hps had was infrared, now it's gone
HPS isn't viable anywhere where it's hot in the summer On the other hand it's absolutely amazing if you life somewhere like Finland where it's always cold
@@DeBaccoUniversity noted but it is a necessary subject in the future in my opinion. Cmh is a lot cheaper then led and early evidence suggests it's better yet its not hyped up like LED's that get promoted the whole time despite their high prices by people looking to make a buck... I'm moving over from HID to the new double ended 1000w cmh lights in my flower rooms later this year. Busy testing a 1000w cmh light and I'm very impressed, LED's don't offer uvb and the ones that do break quickly because the light destroys the fixture which puts the cmh at an advantage not to mention 1/3 the price....
@@phillipjacobs9147 Indeed cmh are great. The only problem I encountered with them was heat control. They do heat up a lot, even with ventilated hoods. (great for cold winters for heating the house)! If you can keep your VPD dialed in, you have a Ferrari in your hands. I agree about LED cost vs double ended. I bought cheap 100W COBs X 9 for 4x4 three years ago and I like the versatility of canopy coverage and quality of the fruits!. Cheers!
@@telnek problem with ventilated hoods is that the glass from the reflectors will block the uvb from hitting the plants. If you normally grow in rooms with AC and open DE fixtures and not tents with ventilated hoods the CMH produce pretty much the same amount of heat then the hps. Generally you need about 3500 BTU of ac for every 1000w fixture where it'll be around 2800 or so for a 720w LED so they don't use a lot less electricity like some people would like us to believe. I guess it comes down to what someone's goals are, if someone is a homegrower who just wants to grow enough for himself at a reasonable cost led or cob is definitely the way to go but if the goal is to produce boutique quality flower for market the CMH lights kick LED's ass in my opinion. Cheaper then led, better spectrum and the Uvb they give off is just magic. Happy growing man, it's awesome that people are starting to grow their own
"good" led diodes are too expensive, cheaper ones burn out, I think led is a con still till better price for quality are available, I use cmh 315 veg 630 flower, it is the best spectrum, anything close to sunlight is the best.
well that could have many causes. what medium do you grow in? how do you feed? what light? how much of it? other parameters?(temp,humidity) and what genetics do you grow?
This is in part what makes LED lights so efficient, no "wasted" energy to heat, but form a plant perspective the sun comes with IR (heat) energy in addition to the visible light spectrum.
@@DeBaccoUniversity I tired multiple grows with LED and I eventually had to run both humidifiers/dehumidifiers and AC to get the proper VPD, which actually negated the savings. LED grows also require more nutrients, like 30% -40% more vs HPS. The lack of leaf transpiration with LED's requires the grow room to be 4 to 5 degrees higher vs HPS, and Imo that is where LED loses potency. Don't get me wrong, LED grows look phenomenal and yields are definitely higher than HPS per/watt, but the smell, potency and smoke quality is nowhere close to HPS imo. Last thing, all of my LED grown bud never burned to white ash like HPS grown bud.. it was always burned to a black, greasy ash. My theory behind this is that LED's lack of IR does not allow the chlorophyll to degrade as rapidly as with HPS. I also think the insane amounts of Magnesium LED's plants need contributes to the black ash. Again, its just a theory and I am way to dumb to know for sure lol.
Sanlight sagt 200w Led ersetzt 400w NDL, aber hängt dann in seinen Videos 2(!!) Evo 5 120 á 265w Power auf nen m².. also da muss ich doch irgendwie drüber schmunzeln😂😂
@@DeBaccoUniversity well its a fact sungrown cannabis has more cannibinoids and unique terpenes long cures produce better weed and that was the norm in 1980s california many of todays growers suck same nutrients imdoor grows poorly flushed theres dozens of articles on how they ruined skunk. For example The skunks we had back then smelled a mile away and i scored the same weed from the same source 2 years ago and it still blew away anything in a shop skunk that sticks to the wall when u throw it
"At the suggested distance from bulb to canopy in the HPS versus LED comparison (6 inches for LEDs and 4 ft for HPS), carbon assimilation rates displayed a 142% percent increase in plants grown under LED vs. HPS with average photon flux densities of 795 and 298 µmol∙m−2∙s−1 for LED and HPS, respectively." What is "suggested distance"... they subjectively chose an arbitrary height that doomed the HPS from the start. I own two SpydrXPlus and love them but this is just bad science. Osram funded this or something. I would have compared the different spectrums at heights that had matching PPFD.
Many times scientific studies use "manufacture recommendations" which is what should be followed since the manufacturer should know their product the best. Sometimes to achieve the same light intensity with HPS the heat may result in leaf damage due to heat so this is why the manufacture suggestions are followed.
@@DeBaccoUniversity That's a very sterile way of admitting that they twisted the manufacturer's recommendation out of context to get dramatic results. Height recommendations change per application. All this study shows is that Fluence chose to recommend a more intense hanging height than ePapillion. You could also get into why they chose to compare a 650w LED to a 1000w HPS. It's bizarre that they did that without finding a common point to compare them from (PPFD). The manufacturer recommendation for height is totally irrelevant in my opinion. We're interested in the performance on plants, not the performance of a companies marketing. The difference between 25% and 20% thc was due to the more than double amount of photons that the LED was allowed to give vs the HPS. You didn't address that at all in the results.
Is it safe to say LED lights have taken over now in 2024 ? I just purchased a mars hydro fc3000 for £196 . 😊 I also have the spider farmer se 7000 . In the past I purchased a Dimlux DE light for over £500. Today nobody will pay £50 for it on ebay .😢
As long as you have full spectrum and a PAR meter to measure light, you should be good. High end LED lights like Luxx are very good. But as far as thc and terpine production, alot of factors come into place. But really if you do proper plant work, and have your nutrient and humidity levels in your medium balanced, you will get a quality harvest. But that does not end there. You can have a perfect grow and harvest with the highest quality outcome, but if you make a mistake during the drying AND curing process, you end up with less than desirable quality. I love your videos, Debacco! Keep them coming!
You bring up an interesting point, the video can at least try and provide some help with one part of the bigger puzzle you mention;-)
I always liked HPS until I got an electric sky ES300 LED. My electric bill is much lower as well.
@@WildBill496 Hows your yield?
@@drobro4396 lower i guess
@@drobro4396 HLG LED. HLG 600R. These are top of the the line I guarantee you success.
I've grown with hps for 40 yrs and will continue as i use the heat generated in wintertime to maintain temps. Have tried leds and spent plenty of money on them but they just dont satisfy my needs.
I'd rather replace a bulb than an led fixture. Much cheaper, longer lasting and better quality herbs with hps for me and my indoor growing environment.
And i didnt notice any energy savings when using leds.
Many would agree with you.
Seems like the thc in weed grown under the sun or HPS bulbs are more potent than the stuff grown under LED.
Alot of long time growers share the same sentiment as you. I mean we've been able to access high quality cannabis for decades now, so HPS isn't some obsolete technology that doesn't work, its just about efficiency. The math shows that you break even at the 1.5 to 2 year mark, and after that you begin to save money when using an LED fixture. Most large brands offer a 5-year warranty on their lights, so if anything goes wrong in that time frame, you should be covered. Of course this doesn't account for ease-of-replacement if a fixture failure happens mid-grow though.
I found a happy medium with led and hps lighting together that the plants respond nicely to .seems after many harvest vests the combination of led and hps causes tighter bud node spacing and more dense buds from the blues coming from the led
Thats what im doing bro. I still love hps idc what people say lol. Specially for flower. I like using hps during winter cause i grow in my shed helps keep the heat up but yeah a mix of both works great.
HPS still have use can have proven effective as you have found out.
Learn how to work with those leds. Make sure that your leaf temperature is 5° cooler than your room temp. Run them warm and run that co2 .
Can't confirm this. But the place I bought my led told me a hps will cancel out the led light as it messes with the spectrum with the two combined.
@@dtw6485 Bro Science my friend
Everyone wants to take a side and the answer more often then not is... IT DEPENDS. Another great video.
Just trying to provide data so people can make informed decisions.
We appreciate it! 👍
Actually if you aren't getting better results from Led than hps, it's just a problem with you or the grower. Not the fixture. The depends that you're talking about actually should say depends on if the grower knows how to properly use LED fixtures because you can't just take the hid down and stick the LED up and walk away thinking your job is done and it will now go to plan.
@@demsandlibsareswinecancer4667 well yes of course. But I'm generalizing as to why people think one over the other. Because most do not think of all the variables. They think of doing what they know works and that it works better with one light over the other without diving into why that is. Even large scale growers make this mistake. Not everyone who grows wants to know the "why" and "how" to everything and so that causes issues when things change because they are not understanding the impact that change has on other variables in the room and what needs to be changed to compensate for that change being made. So I agree with you but again I'm just give a general reason as to why. If everyone thought as you do then yhe growing space as a while would be more advanced. And I'm all for it.
@@TriStateTrichomes In terms of energy efficiency LED is objectively better, but if you have to cover a large area (greenhouse?) it gets expensive very quickly so it might still be interesting to consider HPS, especially if you "need" the heat anyway like in Canada. You also have secondary benefits like having seeing true color much more easily under LEDs which helps when steering your grow, finding pests etc.
You are the best man! I love watching every single one of your videos and you have made me 10 times the grower I was before your video.
Thanks for sharing that is great to hear!
Hes right i currently use leds with hps my thc and terpenes are up there no joke..i get strong cannabis..
Thanks for confirming the information presented with your own experience.
@@DeBaccoUniversity Yeah!!!no problem your welcome i learned a lot feom watching you professor...
This was awesome! Thank you for providing peer reviewed articles.
It takes time to find, review, generate content and record/post, but great to know the time was worth it;-)
@@DeBaccoUniversity It's definitely worth it. Thank you sir.
I use both, Hps in winter. Led during summer
Why the change based on season?
@@DeBaccoUniversity I use hps in the winter. I use outside air to cool the grow. Id actually have to use a heater to use led in the winter. I use led in the summer as its more cost effective to cool an led room than an hos. I love both of them. I do think hps leaves more room for operator errors. This just works for me.
I went out on a limb,and purchased an LED light for the purpose vegetative stage growth and I will never use H.ID.for vegetative growth again.However for generative stage I am staying with H.I D.Thank you for information on your channel,I appreciate it,as there is so much garbage useless information pertaining to cannabis cultivation.
Thanks for sharing and glad you found the channel and appreciate the quality information provided, be sure to share it with others!
for newbs, run some cycles under the hps as a hedge to offset 10x cost of led. then add the costly Led to the mix and save electricity.
Great suggestion!
I disagree. The method of growing with LED is not the same as hps. It's more than just taking the old light down and putting the new light up. If they are new, they need to just start with whatever they're going to finish with. If you know how to do it it is actually much easier growing under LED than it is hps.
Always good to hear really anything you have to say.
It is nice to be heard;-)
i love my leds but if it comes to quality i had the best with HPS+MH mix 2:1 or even 50:50.
Spectrum and leaf temperature play a role in the final product.
Got so much advice education and help from professor
My 4 plants are looks so good so far
Hope your plants continue to look good and glad to hear the information on this channel has been helpful!
I bought a couple of HLG 550's a year or so ago, pretty happy with them. I still use HPS too tho
Sounds like you might be getting the best of both.
Have to used led my scrawny arms can't lift hid
LED are better for overall use due to their ability to ride lower WATTS while producing less heat while getting closer to the plant with the same amount of labor... It's overall a better choice cost wise.
Just be aware of the total coverage area of the LED lights as sometimes more a required and growers must balance a more efficient fixture vs need more of them, what is the net benefit.
@@DeBaccoUniversity absolutely! The par from an LED may only cover a small area when closer to the canopy. Luxx lights make single bar 400watt full spectrum LEDs for this purpose. These specific lights are pricey though
Another excellent video. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. I feel cultivated! lol
Always happy to provide that cultivated feeling!
Thankyou 🙏 for this science based approach to this subject.
That is the goal of the channel!
Potency comes down to genetics
and genetics can be maximized with the proper environment.
And with an improper environment, week lighting, a crappy nutrient regimen and s***** water, you can really F those genetics up can't you? Or you can have a proper environment, quality light with a full spectrum, and you can make sure your water is aerated and pH is spot on and drag every single last terpene and cannabinoid that is possible out of that genetic. Things are only so simple to stupid people. But will forgive you this time.
@Debacco University
Hey your videos are great Thank you !!!
3 questions:
1) How you determine the right leaf temp ? How they determined that in that study? (if LED create less heat so we might need to increase overall room temperature to maximize leaf temp for photosynthesis ?
2) what was the difference between the LED spectrum and the hps spectrum ?
3)This question, from different video you had, about nitrogen fertilizer. you said that in Canada, they had study that you can go as high as 200 l/b per acre, how you convert this for practical hydroponic quantity applications ?
Thanks for your interest answers provided below...
1.) This in part can depend on the VPD, but typically 80-75F is a good starting point.
2.) You would have to compare the spectrum provided by each manufacture
3.) This link to conversion factors should help... www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs142p2_022760.pdf
Thank you so much for the answer!!!
when you said in question 1)“ 75-80 degree”, do you refer to the leaf temperature or the room temp ?
Thanks keep it up, very interesting chanel.
In winter, the additional heat of HPS can be desirable. In summer months, that same heat is a curse! Even w/vented hood, environmental demands lead me back to LEDs.
You are correct, in some areas (and times of year) excess heat can be a good thing.
Should a new grower start with LED and should HPS users switch as they replace old lights?
What ever they can afford as both can produce quality yields.
I also can't stress enough that your enviorment is also KEY to success in a quality harvest. You need tio make sure you have good intake and out take airflow. You need to have something cooling down the enviorment and keeping it cool at that WITH proper humidity and co2 levels.
Many factors to consider, only one presented here.
I know that the cost of led fixtures are high, specially when growers has to buy a few, the savings is on electricity,. Way less heat wich it means, the grower doesn't have to run big ac nor often. So a grower will save so much on electricity. Also, led fixtures run on less watts and produce the same or more intensity as hps. Leds you save, it pays it self at the end
Growers need to do some of this rough math and determine how long it will take to break even so they can make an informed selection.
@@Priller007 it's not cap, cause it become more cost-effective. I'll give u an example; let's say u got a 10x10 room and u run 4 to 5 1k watts, each hps pulls 5 amps each,that's a total 25amps. Now u get leds, u can run either 400watts or 600 watts led in that room, and get the same or more light output and more coverage on each led fixture. Which the more light the more yields and. Also,, it's been proven that with leds the harvest time periods are shorter by 1 week or more that hps. That means u can add 1 extra grow in the yr. Also u can put 3 to 4 leds per each 1k hps the lights produce less heat, meaning u don't have to run the ac as much, out of hps u might get 2 to 3 good harvest before u have to buy new bulbs, the led chips/diodes last from 5yrs and better, so that's another area of saving. With digital ballast u have to get hps and mh bulbs for each fixture. That's how led are more cost-effective
Thanks for everything you do 🤝
I appreciate your comment!
Always enjoy your informative content.
Glad to hear it thanks for sharing and watching.
i think this video should have gone more into the topic on who are these lights for. hobby indoor growers with a 1x1m growing space for exapmle:
400-600w hps would be needed for that space imo. now, if u want quality components you should get a dimmable psu, nice reflector with air ventilation (because without, temps will get out of control, if you havent got a air conditioner) and a good hps bulb. add that up and you will come out at around 200-350 dollars.
for that kind of money would will get 300w lm301 fixtures. i would say, LED is the homegrowers choice and hps is good for big commercial grows.
but still, wasting energy is always bad so lets transition to led.
HPS can still be used in small operations and should be at lest considered to determine if it is a potential good fit for an operation.
@@DeBaccoUniversity why exactly?
Thank you for these videos!
Thanks for taking the time to comment and be sure to share the channel with others!
I have been using a 125w CFL light for vegging and must switch to LED, my question is which wattage LED do i need to be near equivalent to my 125w CFL (Compact Fluorescent Light bulb).
PAR meter would help and to get more area stick with the same wattage and you will have a larger growing area with most LED lights.
as always great videos, but after more than a decade of testing different types of lamps starting with MH-hps then induction plasma, then every type of LED and even LEP, we should discuss more in depth some aspects of these researches and tests that are found online, to be correct the tests should take into consideration the best possible setup for each type of lighting technology, if for LEDs it is enough to hang the lamp, for HPS it is not like that, the best setup for a MH-HPS system is composed not only of the lamp but also of a "cooltube" system and an adequate reflector (adjust-a-wing like), with a setup like that the heat, primary problem of HPS, is almost completely missing.
That said, no longer having the problem of temperature you can bring the plants closer to the lamp even more than with LEDs, producing the same if not more ppfd than the corresponding LEDs at the same wattage!
Then I would add that with a cooltube system the hot air produced by the lamp is immediately expelled from the growroom practically not increasing the overall temperature of the room, on the contrary the LEDs, which do not have systems like the cooltube, but still produce heat, heat that instead of being immediately extracted from the room will remain in the same causing the general temperature to increase!
Making a trivial example, it is not possible to use co2 with the sealed room with LEDs and without AC precisely for this aspect, while with an HPS and coolbute that use an independent ventilation system it can be done, saving a lot of electricity!
Now I would like to see a comparative study between a top range LED 600watt against a HPS600watt but with cooltube and refector!
Obviously very few people talk about this, and certainly no lamp manufacturer, given that you pay 250 euros for a complete HPS kit, while to have the corresponding LED one you have to shell out from 800 to over 2000 euros, it is certainly better for them to focus on LED technology given the enormous difference in price between the 2 technologies...
Thanks for your suggestion and while it seems easy it can be a challenge to develop a good comparative study.
Led are cheaper if you consider electricity cost over 1 or 2 years. HPS usually require more power for heat dissipation. LED are also dimmable
Growers need to consider all costs of options both short and long term to make an educated decision for their operation.
Should I turn my led light to the max for intensity ? While in veg and flower stage ?
Flower should have the greatest PAR, but max intensity may result in plant burning, as distance from plant to light needs to be taken into consideration.
@@DeBaccoUniversity thanks
When it is a Seedling or clone no more than 200 ppf. When you are in veg it should start at about 300 and finish around 500 to 600 ppf. Flower should start there and by the last few weeks you should be ramped up to maximum output and be hovering around 900 to 1,000 ppf. Unless your genetics and plants tell you otherwise with tacoing leaves or some other response that says too much light.
Blurple tech is by far the best.
This is overall spectrum limited and also reduces a growers ability to detect potential plant issues early.
@@DeBaccoUniversity thanks for the reply! I was being sarcastic 🥴
I enjoy the results of full spectrum blurple but not blurple only.
Good presentation. 👍. For us nerds could of gone full lecture on the implications and spectrum analysis.
The goal is to present the main points and reference for those that want more;-)
I don't know I think power consumption is a huge thing because remember we're growing every day over a long period of time forget the high HIDs
Many other considerations... ua-cam.com/video/5CV9XlHais0/v-deo.html
Can I ask Professor Debacco that if I let 3 plants (12-12) into flower phase from plant age 1 month / 2 month /3 month photoperiodic hemp. Are there any impact (quality) in cannabinol ( thc or cbd ) by every age of plant. Best regards.
As long as the plants are in good health the THC and CBD produce should be a fairly consistent percentage, however what will be different will be the total biomass which will have an impact on total yield.
what says science about yield in terms of efficiency? I am used to know both technologies but when i compare yield from 600w hps to 600w led the case is more than clear in my opinion. of course there are higher investemt costs, but when i sum up future additional cashflows caused by additional yields by led i always recommend to go with led if circumstances allow to do.
Inputs and returns on investment is an important calculation for growers to make.
Correct. A decent grower can usually meet or exceed yield expectations using approximately 30 to 40% less power.
i have a question , i am a novice grower i have ended up with 2 cupboards and 2 600w lights,
i have been starting plants under one light then transferring to the other cupboard for flowering..
as i have 2 TS600s should i put the 2 together in one tent and just grow plants from start to finish under 2 600w, or is that overkill ?
All depends on the size of the cupboards. 600watt light is probably good for about 0.6meters x 1.25 meters or 2ft x 4ft.
I run both. Hps for my outdoor setup and led for the inside setup, both produce great results 👍
The goal is great results so it sounds like mission accomplished!
Well done, well put, be well; and good job ^^ 👍✌️🤟
Thank you for this comment and glad you liked the video content.
Thank you.
You are welcome.
i still use my HPS 250 watt i got a OSRAM bulb for it use's less heat. it works pretty good but i guess i also have a 200 watt CLW COB light and i guess that 1 works a little bit better but i added a far red light to it so with out the far red light the HPS would be just as good as the COB i think but it use's so much energy damn, it use's more then 250 watts, so thats a bad thing and i only use it when it's winter time now also but i must say in a tent the HPS is pretty nice you just have to get a good distance from the plant so it doesn't stretch to much the HPS also works grate with my MIGRO UVB light, that add's over 3% THC anyways, and you can't buy that light in USA anymore also haha.
Overall 250 watt and under lights have a limited coverage area so be sure to consider how your set-up could be applied to a larger set-up. However, thanks for sharing and hope you continue to get good yields.
@@DeBaccoUniversity I forgot to mention I added 2 LED bar lights to reflect more light around the tent also so its about 273 watts overall
CMH in the mix would be nice?
You are correct, but this study did not include CMH's.
Come on doc we all know that HPS lights are hotter use more energy they have to be changed every year just to name a few things LEDs are superior to HPS I used to grow with them but after trying LEDs my temps were cooler my light bill was smaller and my buds were spectacular it seems that the old guys just won't let the HPS go well I'm 50 and I got tired of my tip baking like an oven and my light bill being high as hell with no control over the Spectrum I want it's a no-brainer
There is something to be said for leaf temperature, and HPS is not dead, even in commercial applications.
Thank you
You are welcome!
We've all had some excellent crops with HPS but I think the end product grown under LEDs produce a better quality bud! 🌿🔥🇬🇧
The debate continues.... ;-)
@@DeBaccoUniversity I may end up hooking up my HPS at some point in time?? I will use again I think 🤔
I love your videos
Love your comment!
When factoring the cost i wish he would have factored in how long LED lights last (5-10yrs) compared to HPS lights (1yr)..
HPS ballast should be lasting more than 1 year, bulbs may be a different story.
Un anno la hps? ahahahah ahahahahah salutami le ventole delle luci a led che si rompono sempre 😉👋👋
First off... lol. Let's not say HPS, Let's say HID. Next, a garden done proper with HPS staggered side by side with hortilux true blue MH with full spec and UV. This set up crushes LED. Diodes are not better than chemistry when you aren't just using one bulb, but getting the full reds from the hps intermingled with the full spec and UV of the MH is fairly untouchable. Don't use the DE's, it's a 600 hps with a 400 MH, but they don't use the full spec MH with UV, AND they aren't vented, so your AC has to overcompensate and drives your bill up, I'm on the fence on rather or not Luxx knew this and pushed them just so they could compare the energy usage between HID and LED and make it look worse so they could sell more LED, as the profit per light is astronomical in comparison. Everything told you is an industry lie to sell you more bulls$%t, and everyone seems to have drank the coolaid. Led will probably get there someday, and when they do, it's gonna be them hyping the new orange red spectrum they just figured out how to create with diodes, that we've had access to via hps the entire flippin time, watch and see.
MH and HPS and CMH are all HID, the goal is to be specific in the comparison which is why the HPS term was used. Your comment also speaks in very general terms... which HPS light, which LED light? Details are provided in the study and should be provided in the comment as well.
@@DeBaccoUniversity oh, sorry I thought I said Hortilux. Though, there are many good performing HPS bulbs, some arguably better. The main idea is that the BLUE Hortilux MH with full spec and UV (I believe it's the only one on the market that can claim that.) Staggered in a garden with the red eye hps gets you the bulk from the traditional hps, while also the powdery mildew resistance and other benefits of UV from the MH, along with being a very full spectrum bulb. My problem with a lot of studies like this is that they compare just a single hps bulb with an led, but thats not what a lot of experienced growers are running, rather a mix of the red and blue hid combined. In my over 15 years experience in a professional garden, this set up slays everything else. I'm not some hortilux fan boy or paid promo guy, just sharing my hands on experience.
First off just saying hid covers three different fixtures with three different Spectrum capabilities. Second If This Were True commercial Growers would not be switching from this combination as quickly as they can to led. If those are the results that you get, it just proves you don't know how to grow with LED. It's not an issue with the fixtures. It always blows my mind when an entire industry finally figure something out and then some Grandpa who's scared to step out of his comfort zone pretends that his old way is still the best.
@@musicisblood2636 I hope you don't use any hoods with glass because say goodbye to your UV if that's the case. And there are UVB bulbs and fixtures available some included with and some as extra fixtures. UVA is just glorified blue. So it's not something only available with hid bulbs.
@@demsandlibsareswinecancer4667 Na. I actually have a UV tester, and plenty comes through glass. I'd heard the same thing so tested it myself proving it false, at least with my hoods. Also, real UV isn't just , "glorified" blue lol, it's actually noticeably damaging to the plant cells if it's too close. I have the UV indicator card from hortilux, and it reads low to moderate UV through the glass, even moderate is damaging if you get it too close, I keep it low.
19,36 to 25,6 is almost 25% increase of thc under led, it's really big.
See 2:27... as it is only a 5.39% increase.
@@DeBaccoUniversity yes but the max thc is 35%
so 35% is like 100%
so a 5% thc increase above 20% thc is gigantic
the difference between potency of weed at 20% thc and 30% thc is not 10%, it's 50%.
a weed who is 30% thc is 50% stronger than a weed who is 20% thc.
hps are dead, they are not efficient, and theyre spectrum can be reproduced with leds
the only avantage hps had was infrared, now it's gone
HAF off led homegrown, have used hps.
Led cost more, changing ginormous hps bulbs sucks. I prefer led bar lights with white light, uv, 630 and ir.
Good to know your options so you can make an informed decision.
HPS > LED
There is some data to support your math.
Good 👍
Thanks!
HPS isn't viable anywhere where it's hot in the summer
On the other hand it's absolutely amazing if you life somewhere like Finland where it's always cold
Maybe this is why Gavita is located in the Netherlands?
What about Cmh? Color is the closest to sunlight you'll ever find and contains uvb...
CMH lights are great, but not part of this study.
@@DeBaccoUniversity noted but it is a necessary subject in the future in my opinion. Cmh is a lot cheaper then led and early evidence suggests it's better yet its not hyped up like LED's that get promoted the whole time despite their high prices by people looking to make a buck... I'm moving over from HID to the new double ended 1000w cmh lights in my flower rooms later this year. Busy testing a 1000w cmh light and I'm very impressed, LED's don't offer uvb and the ones that do break quickly because the light destroys the fixture which puts the cmh at an advantage not to mention 1/3 the price....
Interesting concept and look forward to hearing your results. Not sure how to contact you but is possible it would be interesting to learn more.
@@phillipjacobs9147 Indeed cmh are great. The only problem I encountered with them was heat control. They do heat up a lot, even with ventilated hoods. (great for cold winters for heating the house)! If you can keep your VPD dialed in, you have a Ferrari in your hands. I agree about LED cost vs double ended. I bought cheap 100W COBs X 9 for 4x4 three years ago and I like the versatility of canopy coverage and quality of the fruits!. Cheers!
@@telnek problem with ventilated hoods is that the glass from the reflectors will block the uvb from hitting the plants. If you normally grow in rooms with AC and open DE fixtures and not tents with ventilated hoods the CMH produce pretty much the same amount of heat then the hps. Generally you need about 3500 BTU of ac for every 1000w fixture where it'll be around 2800 or so for a 720w LED so they don't use a lot less electricity like some people would like us to believe. I guess it comes down to what someone's goals are, if someone is a homegrower who just wants to grow enough for himself at a reasonable cost led or cob is definitely the way to go but if the goal is to produce boutique quality flower for market the CMH lights kick LED's ass in my opinion. Cheaper then led, better spectrum and the Uvb they give off is just magic.
Happy growing man, it's awesome that people are starting to grow their own
"good" led diodes are too expensive, cheaper ones burn out, I think led is a con still till better price for quality are available, I use cmh 315 veg 630 flower, it is the best spectrum, anything close to sunlight is the best.
Many agree with you;-)
Hey why my cannabis plant is so small 😭😭😭😭 and how to improve growing
well that could have many causes.
what medium do you grow in? how do you feed? what light? how much of it?
other parameters?(temp,humidity)
and what genetics do you grow?
More information needed.....
I feel due to higher thc, the terps may be lower.
The plant can only produce so much.
And then their was the electric bill!
Always seems to be on the rise;-)
A grow operation on solar would be amazing
LED lights lack IR.. most of you don't know the significance of that because sponsored ads leave this out.
This is in part what makes LED lights so efficient, no "wasted" energy to heat, but form a plant perspective the sun comes with IR (heat) energy in addition to the visible light spectrum.
@@DeBaccoUniversity I tired multiple grows with LED and I eventually had to run both humidifiers/dehumidifiers and AC to get the proper VPD, which actually negated the savings. LED grows also require more nutrients, like 30% -40% more vs HPS. The lack of leaf transpiration with LED's requires the grow room to be 4 to 5 degrees higher vs HPS, and Imo that is where LED loses potency. Don't get me wrong, LED grows look phenomenal and yields are definitely higher than HPS per/watt, but the smell, potency and smoke quality is nowhere close to HPS imo. Last thing, all of my LED grown bud never burned to white ash like HPS grown bud.. it was always burned to a black, greasy ash. My theory behind this is that LED's lack of IR does not allow the chlorophyll to degrade as rapidly as with HPS. I also think the insane amounts of Magnesium LED's plants need contributes to the black ash. Again, its just a theory and I am way to dumb to know for sure lol.
High don't put my TP roll on a holder.
they have one that holds vertically and shoots sheets up with air like tornado looks cool
Sounds like problem solved!
Sanlight sagt 200w Led ersetzt 400w NDL, aber hängt dann in seinen Videos 2(!!) Evo 5 120 á 265w Power auf nen m².. also da muss ich doch irgendwie drüber schmunzeln😂😂
Algorithm
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B
The great toilet paper roll debate lol in or out
Where do you stand... in or out?
@@DeBaccoUniversity in between..half in and half out. Pros and cons to both
the toilet paper in the corner 😂
It is another issue that is often debated;-) Try to toss a little humor in addition to the education.
@@DeBaccoUniversity humor works for me Professor. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, you're healing the world. 🙏
Pot today isnt as good as the good bud from the 90s crap taste
Sometimes memories are better than the actual event.
@@DeBaccoUniversity well its a fact sungrown cannabis has more cannibinoids and unique terpenes long cures produce better weed and that was the norm in 1980s california many of todays growers suck same nutrients imdoor grows poorly flushed theres dozens of articles on how they ruined skunk. For example The skunks we had back then smelled a mile away and i scored the same weed from the same source 2 years ago and it still blew away anything in a shop skunk that sticks to the wall when u throw it
@@DeBaccoUniversity plants are living things not machines
"At the suggested distance from bulb to canopy in the HPS versus LED comparison (6 inches for LEDs and 4 ft for HPS), carbon assimilation rates displayed a 142% percent increase in plants grown under LED vs. HPS with average photon flux densities of 795 and 298 µmol∙m−2∙s−1 for LED and HPS, respectively."
What is "suggested distance"... they subjectively chose an arbitrary height that doomed the HPS from the start. I own two SpydrXPlus and love them but this is just bad science. Osram funded this or something. I would have compared the different spectrums at heights that had matching PPFD.
Many times scientific studies use "manufacture recommendations" which is what should be followed since the manufacturer should know their product the best. Sometimes to achieve the same light intensity with HPS the heat may result in leaf damage due to heat so this is why the manufacture suggestions are followed.
@@DeBaccoUniversity That's a very sterile way of admitting that they twisted the manufacturer's recommendation out of context to get dramatic results. Height recommendations change per application. All this study shows is that Fluence chose to recommend a more intense hanging height than ePapillion. You could also get into why they chose to compare a 650w LED to a 1000w HPS. It's bizarre that they did that without finding a common point to compare them from (PPFD). The manufacturer recommendation for height is totally irrelevant in my opinion. We're interested in the performance on plants, not the performance of a companies marketing. The difference between 25% and 20% thc was due to the more than double amount of photons that the LED was allowed to give vs the HPS. You didn't address that at all in the results.
Taught me nothing. Sorry but this was a waste of my time.
Many others feel differently, but maybe one of the other 1,000+ videos on the channel you will like.
Hps will burn your house down
Knowing your electrical circuit is key.
Is it safe to say LED lights have taken over now in 2024 ?
I just purchased a mars hydro fc3000 for £196 . 😊
I also have the spider farmer se 7000 .
In the past I purchased a Dimlux DE light for over £500.
Today nobody will pay £50 for it on ebay .😢
HPS and CMH lights still have a place in the growing process.