Excellent video. Here is my interpretation of the results: The distance carry seems to be very consistent, considering the variance factor of the wind. One shot might have a 5mph value, while the next may be the full 7, which would account for the spread in your carry, which is a fairly tight range. On the distance left to putt, unfortunately, we only have the total distance (length and width) and not just the dispersion left to right. No way to accurately measure that with the tools given. It would be interesting to see a scatter graph that would allow for left/right dispersion, and where the mean falls. Full backspin, IMO anyway, always seems to create a more varied result in shot precision. Would like to see a comparison of flat shots, or half spun shots and see if the dispersion tightened up any. What irons are you using, and are they the most "precise" in the game? How about apparel enhancements that may/may not affect forgiveness or precision? I always argued that the ball should have a level of precision built in to it, and as a ball manufacturer, I would have been adamant about this before allowing my name on the ball. A ProV1 should be a lot more consistent than a cat ball.... In any case, there will never be 100% dead nuts consistency, otherwise 'auto dingers' would rule the game, and cheats would destroy it completely. My take is to always try to figure out where the best "miss" is and err on that side- better to putt uphill or downhill? short or long? Realize that the variance will be in play, but favor it where I can to my best advantage. Thanks for the time and work put into this. Very enlightening.
just like real life, a golfer won't be able to get exactly the same shot over and over. But possibly within a squared 10/15 yard radius. I think WGT have put this here on purpose, to make the game more realistic.
Its the shot generator, WGT calls it VEM, that is in the game. What ever percentage you hit your ball the in game generator gives you anywhere from 95% to 105% of the percentage you hit. You hit a ball 100% the in game generator gives you an actual hit anywhere between 95% and 105%. From my tests it seems the window is as follows, Driver and wood shots is 10 yards plus or minus, irons 5 yards plus or minus, wedges 3 yards plus or minus. That same generator also works with the wind aim.
I appreciate that you have put a lot of work into this video but all it proves is that the game has a certain amount of randomness built in. Just like in the real game.
Honestly I don’t see the issue you see. Unfortunately I think you’ve projected the conclusion you “wanted to see” on the results. If you properly analyze it a bit will actually see a pretty consistent pattern. Of the 32 hits there was one that was 130 yrds if you throw that one out the other 31 were all between 131 and 134 yrds. That’s a 3 yard variance which could easily be explained by the variance in wind from shot to shot not being exactly the same (5-7mph) especially considering it was an almost direct head wind. The variance left to right can also be explained by the fact that when you hit your shots further from the pin (133-134yrds & 5-6yrds long)they go offline to the right more and when you hit them closer to the pin (131-132yrds & 3-4yrds long) they stay tighter to pin. This makes sense as when you hit a shot too far or too short the shot has more variance than if you hit it closer to the pin (especially if you get a heartbeat) The shots with the longest putts were the ones furthest (long) from the pin and the ones with the shortest putts were those that were closer to the pin. In fact the shot with the shortest putt was that 130yrd one that was also the closest shot to the pin. All the shots were 3-6yrds long. I would venture to say that if you were to move that shot 4yrds back so that you’re still hitting the same club @100% (for consistency) you would get a much tighter pattern to the pin as you would now be hitting the shots with the pin much closer to the median of your shot distances variance. Where you’re currently hitting from you should really be hitting that club maybe 96-98% and with a ding you will probably get a much tighter pattern. All that being said there will always be a slight variation to all shots due to wind fluctuations and the fact that unless you hit a perfect shot (strength + aim) the game will have variance to every shot. And the further you are from that perfect shot the more variance it can/will have.
Thank you for the work you've done producing this video. Does the game possibly have more intelligence in it and the wind is a factor, wind is 5-7 on this shot? Doing calculations we would use 6 MPH, which of course you are not doing at this time for your test, and you are keeping every shot consistent. But depending on when we hit, the wind affects the shot by either being 5, 6 or 7 MPH? That's the only factor I see that could fluctuate. Just a thought, I might be giving the developers to much credit.
Well put together video that took a lot of time...but do you expect every shot hit the exact same way to land in the exact same place? For one thing, the wind speed is variable, and the direction arrow also can move.
I dont expect them all to land in the same spot, bit i do expect a TIGHTER circle for the shots. The results are too far apart and not all the shots would result in an easy birdie
Hope your repairing your pitch marks. If you want to practice go to the range man. All seriousness though great video. The only thing I can imagine is the difference between 5 and 7 wind speed. Other than that and more likely it depends on how much you spend playing this game can and will give you the edge.
The inconsistent game play makes me crazy. I can’t tell how many times I’ve hit the “ding” only to see the ball squirt to the right, or, on pitches, have the shot be a “duff”.
The game would be boring if you could mathematically work out every shot to the precise millimetre. Everything in real life is fluid; wind, temperature, sponginess of ground landing, etc. Just enjoy the game for what it is. 1saacsdad lvl 90 😁👍
In real life you can't hit the exact same shot more then once, there will always be a slight difference. In my mind this means that you won't get people mastering a certain shot and dominating the game beacause they won't be guaranteed to have the desired result which mkes the game more playable, unpredictable and therefore more realistic.
I want to know, how is he stopping his swing exactly in the middle to give him the perfect shot every single time? Every time I play this game I release my finger a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right of that line? How is he doing that perfectly every single time and don't tell me he's just timing it?
How do you hit the ding every single time you have like a cheat code or something? I’ve been playing this game for 13 years and I can’t hit it every time.
I did put a comment in the video about the dings because i was expecting questions like yours. I did not hit every ding every time. I am only human. What i did was record a very long video and use all the DING SHOTS only. With my video editing software, I removed any non-dings to eliminate variations that are caused by dinging early or late. Hope that makes sense?
@@franmorr1966 i am not sure about Mac since i have never used a Mac. There was actually a web version before where one could play the game via a web browser.
What you proved is what I been saying all along. You have to realize that the wind you were hitting in was 5 to 7mph so some shots left at 5 others 5.5 . 6, 6.5. And 7 changing your apex and influencing high and distance. Go see if you can hit shots with a launch monitor and keep the numbers identical even indoors. The shots to the left Or based on the precision on the Clubs your hitting and really how can you expect wind to be the exact angle every time over that many shots it could move a degree 1 way or the other. WGT is played outdoors not in a vacuum. Go back and check your distances based on your apex . Also spin even at 100% is. Going to vary up to 300 rpm up or down. So you actually proved WGT’s algorithm is. Actually closer to that of real golf. TecheMan
The apex of the shot will affect the distance, If you notice in your shots, the apex changes. You should list your findings by the apex of the shot or use my driving range program to log them. Yes not every shot will be the same but shots with the same apex shouldn't have a huge difference. ua-cam.com/video/fj0rN1DhgXE/v-deo.html
The apex of each of my shote should not be changing because i am using thr exact same power and backspin esch time. If the apex is changing, that is because the GAME is doing something behind the scenes. My inputs are not doing something to affect the apex.
@@deanheylen Exactly WGT is affecting the shot, It's built into the VEM. All the players deal with it the best they can. I'm not saying your inputs has anything to do with it. If you want to check how big a variance you're having, check it with the same apex.
It's pretty amazing that so many people don't understand a Random Number Generator (RNG). It's used in so much... it makes my head hurt trying to make them understand such a simple concept. It's even more comical that WGT players have their own name for it... VEM. lol.... If you even really CARE to try to understand... the 'ding' just narrows the odds of something staying within a range. There isn't one ding. There is a 'range' on the meter that will elicit a 'ding' sound. You might be just a hair before it, or a hair after it. But you hear the ding.. so you assume it's the EXACT same shot, and should land on the EXACT spot (within an acceptable range YOUR brain dictates). Rubbish. All flawed logic and expectations. You're even hitting uphill - 26 ft uphill no less! Uphill shots longer than 50 yards are KNOWN to behave a bit more randomly... how long have you played this game? WGT is not about approach shots being perfect - once you can regularly setup putts that are within about 15 feet or so. WGT is about PUTTING - which is 10k% more precise than any other shot in the game. But it's also not about 15 yard putts.. it's about putts of any length that take advantage of certain green characteristics. All of your shots ended up above the hole, which on that green from your angle, ends up a downhill putt (like -7 inches downhill!! lol...). Like uphill approach shots, downhill putts behave quite differently (especially anything over 2 or 3 inches downhill) and are arguably harder for the average player to drop. As a veteran player, you would want to drop this approach shot below pin for a slightly uphill putt. Much easier pace factor and less left or right movement. Once you master putting, approach shots are less of a critical factor. So, the final verdict in mastering this game is course management to end up with reasonable putts, and the ability to drop those putts. There is literally no way to fight the randomness in approach shots. If you watch the best at this game, they quite often end up with several putts (in any particular round) in excess of 12-15 feet. The difference is, they regularly drop these putts in. My friend, you are bent on 'proving' (lol...) that the game is either rigged against you, or just wholly unrealistic. And you are on this mission instead of the correct mission of understanding what it takes to master the game and compete at a higher level. If you want to prove how flawed the game is, you can certainly set up 100's of different scenarios with the proper bias to 'prove' your flawed argument(s). But also, if you just simply wanted to become good at this game, you could learn to 'read' the game correctly. Go with it instead of fighting it. Find what works WITH you instead of searching so hard for things that work AGAINST you. The latter is an utter waste of time... Every game played on WGT is won by putting. Every. Single. Time.
Excellent video. Here is my interpretation of the results:
The distance carry seems to be very consistent, considering the variance factor of the wind. One shot might have a 5mph value, while the next may be the full 7, which would account for the spread in your carry, which is a fairly tight range.
On the distance left to putt, unfortunately, we only have the total distance (length and width) and not just the dispersion left to right. No way to accurately measure that with the tools given. It would be interesting to see a scatter graph that would allow for left/right dispersion, and where the mean falls.
Full backspin, IMO anyway, always seems to create a more varied result in shot precision. Would like to see a comparison of flat shots, or half spun shots and see if the dispersion tightened up any.
What irons are you using, and are they the most "precise" in the game? How about apparel enhancements that may/may not affect forgiveness or precision?
I always argued that the ball should have a level of precision built in to it, and as a ball manufacturer, I would have been adamant about this before allowing my name on the ball. A ProV1 should be a lot more consistent than a cat ball....
In any case, there will never be 100% dead nuts consistency, otherwise 'auto dingers' would rule the game, and cheats would destroy it completely.
My take is to always try to figure out where the best "miss" is and err on that side- better to putt uphill or downhill? short or long? Realize that the variance will be in play, but favor it where I can to my best advantage.
Thanks for the time and work put into this. Very enlightening.
Totally agree! It would get old quick and no fun. The best way to lower your score is to become a better putter, IMHO.
just like real life, a golfer won't be able to get exactly the same shot over and over. But possibly within a squared 10/15 yard radius. I think WGT have put this here on purpose, to make the game more realistic.
Excellent vid and expresses EXACTLY what's I've been saying since they went to this format about 3 yrs ago now...
Its the shot generator, WGT calls it VEM, that is in the game. What ever percentage you hit your ball the in game generator gives you anywhere from 95% to 105% of the percentage you hit. You hit a ball 100% the in game generator gives you an actual hit anywhere between 95% and 105%. From my tests it seems the window is as follows, Driver and wood shots is 10 yards plus or minus, irons 5 yards plus or minus, wedges 3 yards plus or minus. That same generator also works with the wind aim.
Thank you Dean I have suspected this for a long time having practiced shots for many hours,and getting different results on the same shots 👍🇬🇧
I appreciate that you have put a lot of work into this video but all it proves is that the game has a certain amount of randomness built in. Just like in the real game.
Think how much easier the game would be if it was predictable and everyone was a tour champion.
Oh wow i didn't know this. Great vid by the way.
5-7kph, that 2kph difference could potentially make a difference im cool with that golfs hard
It's called VEM and i have made a video about. I have made also your same test with the same whatever results. Thank you for the video.
Honestly I don’t see the issue you see.
Unfortunately I think you’ve projected the conclusion you “wanted to see” on the results.
If you properly analyze it a bit will actually see a pretty consistent pattern.
Of the 32 hits there was one that was 130 yrds if you throw that one out the other 31 were all between 131 and 134 yrds. That’s a 3 yard variance which could easily be explained by the variance in wind from shot to shot not being exactly the same (5-7mph) especially considering it was an almost direct head wind.
The variance left to right can also be explained by the fact that when you hit your shots further from the pin (133-134yrds & 5-6yrds long)they go offline to the right more and when you hit them closer to the pin (131-132yrds & 3-4yrds long) they stay tighter to pin. This makes sense as when you hit a shot too far or too short the shot has more variance than if you hit it closer to the pin (especially if you get a heartbeat)
The shots with the longest putts were the ones furthest (long) from the pin and the ones with the shortest putts were those that were closer to the pin. In fact the shot with the shortest putt was that 130yrd one that was also the closest shot to the pin.
All the shots were 3-6yrds long. I would venture to say that if you were to move that shot 4yrds back so that you’re still hitting the same club @100% (for consistency) you would get a much tighter pattern to the pin as you would now be hitting the shots with the pin much closer to the median of your shot distances variance.
Where you’re currently hitting from you should really be hitting that club maybe 96-98% and with a ding you will probably get a much tighter pattern.
All that being said there will always be a slight variation to all shots due to wind fluctuations and the fact that unless you hit a perfect shot (strength + aim) the game will have variance to every shot. And the further you are from that perfect shot the more variance it can/will have.
8 iron is the most inconsistent club in the bag. Always has been.
I guess the same thing applies to a left/right wind having very different affects than you anticipate.
Thank you for the work you've done producing this video.
Does the game possibly have more intelligence in it and the wind is a factor, wind is 5-7 on this shot?
Doing calculations we would use 6 MPH, which of course you are not doing at this time for your test, and you are keeping every shot consistent.
But depending on when we hit, the wind affects the shot by either being 5, 6 or 7 MPH? That's the only factor I see that could fluctuate.
Just a thought, I might be giving the developers to much credit.
This is not a flaw. The game is designed to have variance. Otherwise the best players would destroy it even more.
A variance of as much as 5 yards? I dont think so. I would accept a variance of 1 or 2 yards, but not 5 yards
@@deanheylen of course it does. You just proved it.
@tony08888 Hi Tony.
How can you hit the ding so consistently? Amazing!
I wish i was that consistent. No. I hit a number of shots and removed the non-ding shots in my video editor
Now I don't feel quit so bad. I would be happy to hit the ding 25% of the time. Thanks for the video, it was very enlightening.
Well put together video that took a lot of time...but do you expect every shot hit the exact same way to land in the exact same place? For one thing, the wind speed is variable, and the direction arrow also can move.
I dont expect them all to land in the same spot, bit i do expect a TIGHTER circle for the shots. The results are too far apart and not all the shots would result in an easy birdie
Hope your repairing your pitch marks. If you want to practice go to the range man. All seriousness though great video. The only thing I can imagine is the difference between 5 and 7 wind speed. Other than that and more likely it depends on how much you spend playing this game can and will give you the edge.
The inconsistent game play makes me crazy. I can’t tell how many times I’ve hit the “ding” only to see the ball squirt to the right, or, on pitches, have the shot be a “duff”.
Well said 😁😁
The game would be boring if you could mathematically work out every shot to the precise millimetre. Everything in real life is fluid; wind, temperature, sponginess of ground landing, etc.
Just enjoy the game for what it is.
1saacsdad lvl 90 😁👍
In real life you can't hit the exact same shot more then once, there will always be a slight difference. In my mind this means that you won't get people mastering a certain shot and dominating the game beacause they won't be guaranteed to have the desired result which mkes the game more playable, unpredictable and therefore more realistic.
I want to know, how is he stopping his swing exactly in the middle to give him the perfect shot every single time? Every time I play this game I release my finger a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right of that line? How is he doing that perfectly every single time and don't tell me he's just timing it?
How do you hit the ding every single time you have like a cheat code or something? I’ve been playing this game for 13 years and I can’t hit it every time.
I did put a comment in the video about the dings because i was expecting questions like yours. I did not hit every ding every time. I am only human. What i did was record a very long video and use all the DING SHOTS only. With my video editing software, I removed any non-dings to eliminate variations that are caused by dinging early or late.
Hope that makes sense?
Standard balls are as reliable as a Yugo
I have my own series of frustrations. First of all is this the mobile version? Is there an actual web based version anymore??
Aa far as i know, the ended the web version. This video was made playing on a PC.
@@deanheylen To me the web version is a playing on a PC. I play mobile on an iPad. How do I play PC on my MacBook? Thank you, Dean.
@@franmorr1966 i am not sure about Mac since i have never used a Mac. There was actually a web version before where one could play the game via a web browser.
What you proved is what I been saying all along.
You have to realize that the wind you were hitting in was 5 to 7mph so some shots left at 5 others 5.5 . 6, 6.5. And 7 changing your apex and influencing high and distance.
Go see if you can hit shots with a launch monitor and keep the numbers identical even indoors.
The shots to the left Or based on the precision on the Clubs your hitting and really how can you expect wind to be the exact angle every time over that many shots it could move a degree 1 way or the other. WGT is played outdoors not in a vacuum.
Go back and check your distances based on your apex .
Also spin even at 100% is. Going to vary up to 300 rpm up or down.
So you actually proved WGT’s algorithm is. Actually closer to that of real golf.
TecheMan
The apex of the shot will affect the distance, If you notice in your shots, the apex changes. You should list your findings by the apex of the shot or use my driving range program to log them. Yes not every shot will be the same but shots with the same apex shouldn't have a huge difference. ua-cam.com/video/fj0rN1DhgXE/v-deo.html
The apex of each of my shote should not be changing because i am using thr exact same power and backspin esch time. If the apex is changing, that is because the GAME is doing something behind the scenes. My inputs are not doing something to affect the apex.
@@deanheylen Exactly WGT is affecting the shot, It's built into the VEM. All the players deal with it the best they can. I'm not saying your inputs has anything to do with it. If you want to check how big a variance you're having, check it with the same apex.
Great video, confirmed what I thought a long time ago. WGT is rigged and always favours the top players.
Thank you. I will be doing more videos like this one soon
Right...sure it is...get real...
It's pretty amazing that so many people don't understand a Random Number Generator (RNG). It's used in so much... it makes my head hurt trying to make them understand such a simple concept. It's even more comical that WGT players have their own name for it... VEM. lol....
If you even really CARE to try to understand... the 'ding' just narrows the odds of something staying within a range. There isn't one ding. There is a 'range' on the meter that will elicit a 'ding' sound. You might be just a hair before it, or a hair after it. But you hear the ding.. so you assume it's the EXACT same shot, and should land on the EXACT spot (within an acceptable range YOUR brain dictates). Rubbish. All flawed logic and expectations. You're even hitting uphill - 26 ft uphill no less! Uphill shots longer than 50 yards are KNOWN to behave a bit more randomly... how long have you played this game?
WGT is not about approach shots being perfect - once you can regularly setup putts that are within about 15 feet or so. WGT is about PUTTING - which is 10k% more precise than any other shot in the game. But it's also not about 15 yard putts.. it's about putts of any length that take advantage of certain green characteristics. All of your shots ended up above the hole, which on that green from your angle, ends up a downhill putt (like -7 inches downhill!! lol...). Like uphill approach shots, downhill putts behave quite differently (especially anything over 2 or 3 inches downhill) and are arguably harder for the average player to drop. As a veteran player, you would want to drop this approach shot below pin for a slightly uphill putt. Much easier pace factor and less left or right movement.
Once you master putting, approach shots are less of a critical factor. So, the final verdict in mastering this game is course management to end up with reasonable putts, and the ability to drop those putts. There is literally no way to fight the randomness in approach shots. If you watch the best at this game, they quite often end up with several putts (in any particular round) in excess of 12-15 feet. The difference is, they regularly drop these putts in.
My friend, you are bent on 'proving' (lol...) that the game is either rigged against you, or just wholly unrealistic. And you are on this mission instead of the correct mission of understanding what it takes to master the game and compete at a higher level. If you want to prove how flawed the game is, you can certainly set up 100's of different scenarios with the proper bias to 'prove' your flawed argument(s). But also, if you just simply wanted to become good at this game, you could learn to 'read' the game correctly. Go with it instead of fighting it. Find what works WITH you instead of searching so hard for things that work AGAINST you. The latter is an utter waste of time...
Every game played on WGT is won by putting. Every. Single. Time.
With all the money wgt makes, why do they screw people over?
I wish I could answer that! But I cannot.
Because they can
it's still a fun game i like it
This game is a joke unless you buy all the best clubs and balls. Spend Money or it's very inconsistent.