On Religion
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- In which John talks about religion and nihilism. Let's continue this conversation in your pants: www.yourpants.org
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Nerdfighteria
effyeahnerdfigh...
effyeahnerdfigh...
/ nerdfighters
nerdfighteria.i...
A Bunny
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"I have this massive parallel processing unit that I could use to... puzzle through quantum mechanics". I first watched this video years ago but it really stuck with me. It's one of the reasons I've finally started making videos about quantum mechanics. Thank you John from the past. Your words of wisdom have gotten me to at least try and do something with my life.
And you’re still doing it! That’s crazy! Keep at it, I’m glad John helped motivate you to do so!
Keep doing it queen
Oh dang! I know your channel! You make great stuff, cool to see your perspective
If the invisible voice ever tells you to START fires rather than flee from them, at that point please stop to ask it some clarifying questions first.
Duely noted.
Too bad it's people who say that, not invisible voices.
threetwozeronine othername never met a schitzo?
threetwozeronine othername tell that to my pyromania
If and invisible voice starts telling you that we DIDN'T start the fire you probably have a decent taste in music
Question dodge level over 90.000.
My thoughts exactly
OnePieceNation hahaha!!
Over 90?
+jackissocrazy Given the context it was 90,000 using the european notation of reversing commas and decimal points in numbers.
+Nathan Lee *continental
"My religion is kindness" - The Dalai Lama
I choose to sit somewhere on the boarder of agnostic and christian... I believe that I don't know if I'm right, but I choose to put faith in kindness and compassion. I don't know that by repenting I will go to some form of afterlife, but if I'm wrong, at least I was a good guy, right?.
If people don't agree with me, it doesn't anger me. Beliefs are a personal decision, so I don't try to enforce my world view on others, because I know that many would do the same to me.
I do as a singular exception also happen to believe that a separation of church and state is necessary for western society to function fairly.
I don't like abortions, but that is MY world view, and it shouldn't be forced on people as a law, nor do I want to judge people if they want one.
As an extension to that part about separation of church and state, religion should not be taught in public schools, unless under an objective basis for cultural examination in Social Studies or History.
I had a christian teacher who continually brought up creationism in science class, and an atheist teacher who tended to slander Christianity and Islamic faith in Social Studies class...
Why can't we all just get along?
If you want to hate on me, I won't hate you back, because in the end I would rather have been that guy who was kind and accepting, rather than as that guy who pushed his world view on others.
do you believe the bible?
Revelation 3:16 "
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth"
Tj McFarland
Revelation is poorly sourced... Its a guy who had a dream, then declared it was prophetic.
I personally am quite on the rocks about whether it is true or not :\
I do however believe in the kindness and forgiveness Jesus taught. I believe that I as a human being am sinful by nature, but can be forgiven by laying my sins down before me in reverence, and asking for the privilege.
In knowing this I do not go and seek to sin without consequence, and I try to be a good person as best I can.
Even if I'm wrong, at least I'll have been a good person ^w^
Also, one does not have to believe in the bible to be christian, the Bible was invented by the catholic church after everyone who has even met Jesus and the apostles had already died of old age.
*****
Sooooooooooomeone didn't understand what I was saaaying :)
*****
Essentially I was saying, that if I am wrong about the existence of the Christian god, I will personally have still been the better for my belief.
Also, you seem un-informed. In all my reading on the new testament I've never found a good valid well sourced wholesome section where god himself appears out of the clouds and says something to the effect of
"If you don't believe I exist, and then bow to me, you will be punished"
If you want to look at my prior comments you'll see how I place my perspective of Revelations, and how I state my belief in the validity of non-historical details within the bible, due to it being assembled by a power corrupt group of people who could be easily compared to the Pharisees.
Now I'm not here trying to say you're wrong, by far I'm not trying to crap on anyone's personal beliefs, I'm merely stating the premise of mine in hopes that others choose to also not judge me based on my beliefs.
And for the record, if I am a good person who has helped others when I die, and I go to hell to wander in nothing for eternity, then at least I was still a good person for the years I lived, and I'll spend those endless years in peace with the knowledge that my life was worth living, or if I cease to exist in that nothingness, at least the people I knew who did get an afterlife will remember me fondly. ;D
John did not really address whether or to what extent he was religious. This entire video actually manages to tip-toe around the subject with impressive finesse.
Note: considering the topic and the online environment, I do not blame him for doing so.
Definitely. He was so cautious and essentially avoided the main question. Shame really, because people will continue to ask until they get a clear answer.
In his video "On Religion (Redux)" he says "to my fellow Christians."
The title wasn't "On My Religious Views," it was just "On Religion." You can't tip-toe around a subject you're not addressing...
He's one of the good Christians!
@@TechMiser0001 There's a difference between being a Christian and being religious. I, for instance, am an atheist. I do not believe that supernatural beings or deities of any kind exist. But there's no denying that I've been raised in terms of Christian values. Therefore, I am a Christian.
Just saying you can be an atheist and still be about kindness and forgiveness.
Well, duh. I mean, literally the only quality that all atheists have is disbelief in a god/gods. Within that structure, you can basically be as kind or as nasty as you want (hopefully picking kind).
OhWellWhatTheHell1 I'm pointing it out as a lot of comments were saying "I'm religious because I want to be kind and forgiving in my life. If I'm wrong, then so what?", as if you're required to be religious to be kind and forgiving. (Won't even mention the issue with willful ignorance).
Pinkie Pie Pinkie Pie smacks down some truth again. The pastel equines do not disappoint.
Stuntddude I usually get pissy when people bring up ponies due to how they do it, but for some reason the fact you said "pastel equines" instead of usual crap made me laugh a bit.
***** Except you have no evidence to prove that. Prove morals come from a god before you claim they do.
And you wouldn't kill your tribe because you still need them to survive. Humans evolved as a social species. On top of the fact that, recently, babies became inable to survive on their own, forcing 'relationships' between two parents (like birds), we rarely are able to survive on our own, or even in groups of two.
Tribes /don't/ slow you down, because they do multiple jobs. Searching for plants known to be edible, searching for animal tracks and finding the direction they went, hunting them, raising children, making children, building huts, et cetera.
The reason you don't kill your tribe is because you would die if you did.
Whenever a species existed that often killed its own tribe and species, the species quickly ended.
To try again, please insert twenty-five cents up your ass.
EDIT: Also, we often did kill old people. Often tribes fed their elderly, when they reached a very specific age, large amounts of...rice wine I believe? Until they were so drunk they would be passed out for several days. Then they dragged their body into the woods to feed to the packs of wolves.
I learned that specific bit from high-school level sociology. What the fuck education do you have if you don't even know that? Apparently not much, and, as such, you should stop trying to debate things out of your league.
I'm an atheist but don't tolerate people bashing on other's religions
Megan Gilmore me too
Megan Gilmore same
Frickfrack Shack as a person who is part of a religion I would like to thank you for being tolerant of my beliefs
Frickfrack Shack I would also like to say that I am tolerant of your beliefs as well
Frickfrack Shack I think we should bash destructive beliefs but we should never bash the people themselves.
I really think you guys should make a Crash Course on Theology. I think it would go a long way to improving the quality of religious discourse on the internet.
someone make this happen
Then everyone who clames to not like it and says they don't want to see it are the only ones who comment
Are you saying that such a series would get nothing but negative comments, or that the existing comments make you believe no one wants it?
*****
Yes, and I've seen all of those. But (at least in the first one on Christianity) they said specifically that they wanted to examine religion as a historical phenomenon. What I have in mind is something more like an in-depth look at various religions' philosophical tenants and theological beliefs. Their second Islam episode is actually pretty close to what I have in mind. I'm pretty sure I posted this comment before that video was up.
And then they did it.
I watched a documentary called "Cave of Forgotten Dreams", it showed the oldest cave paintings that we know of. They believed that the cave was used for rituals. And it made me wonder how and why humans evolved into spiritual people. Not everyone is "religious", but spirituality takes place in everyone in some shape or form. Just having reverence for something grander than you, or that feeling that the universe is cosmic. Humans are spiritual. And of course people are atheist, but religion has played an important part in every culture for as far as we can see human history. It's just strange, and mysterious, and cosmic. I don't really understand it, but that's fine. I like wondering about it though.
hey there sexy.
Nope
@@miguel_aquatico Yup
There's a book called "The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright that discusses this in an evolutionary biological and sociological context, like why societies might develop religions and how religions evolve with societies. Theres plenty of other books and theories on it too. And there's a growing field of study called neurotheology which seeks to explain religious experiences with neuroscience and what causes spirituality. I don't know any books to recommend for that though.
My dad remembers John as a chaplin/chaplon (however you spell it) at Nationwide Childrens hospital in Columbus, Ohio. He said he was a very nice guy :)
Damn, you were right John. The quality of debate in the themes of religion in UA-cam is awful. All I see is a bunch of people arguing over which one is better and how the other one is awful, like a bunch of sports fans. Let me tell you that if you argue that the other one is worse, you are not much better.
Religion and your philosophy to live by is not about having strong opinions and stances, is about having your own opinion and also being open to the changes inside your reasoning. Having strong opinions, which you want to impose to others only leads to intolerance. And we don't need that in the world. Religion (or atheism) hasn't ruined tolerance, intolerance has ruined tolerance. There has been mas murderers by atheists too, Stalin and Mao are some of the people who devoted to the idea of atheism by force. Religion or lack there of are not naturally good or evil, is how you use it what defines it. And evil man will use his own philosophy to harm others, good and evil, always finds a way.
Ch1Frequency Very well said. Intolerance and ignorance are the real dangers and they know no faith.
btw if you treat obvious evils with indifference, then you aren't tolerant, you're just a coward.
Isabel Greene You summed up my views about this very well.
Isabel Greene so your point is what, that one person can do evil but as soon as its a group they suddenly become perfect and flawless? You can and Should say it when a religion promote's evils, atheism cannot promote an evil because it is NOT a belief system (there are no rules or theology).
0:01 "Is John Green gay?" "Is John Green Batman?" Lol
davidgafo But is john green batman?
Nah it suggests 'is hank green batman'.
John green is okay being awesome
me: what religion do you believe in?
John: How are we going to bring meaning to human life?
John's neighbour doesn't understand how many people would love to be John's neighbour regardless of whether his lawn is cut or not 😂
One of my parents is soon to be a minister and a Catholic priest and I am afraid that they hate me because I am not religious. I respect religion, and do not judge anybody based on their religion, as long as they're not using it as an excuse for hate, but I simply cant walk into church three or four days a week and pretend. I simply do not believe in God. It's not an active decision I made, I've always been this way; and while I kind of want to believe in something, I cant convince myself, and so I've stopped trying. But, almost all of my immediate family where I live is religious, and some seem mad at me, or treat me different, and they think I hate them in turn, but I love them and respect their beliefs! Sorry for the random comment, I know nobody cares, but for some reason it felt good to say.
+Hanneli Seirrah You can't have parents and a priest as one of those parents sorry to burst your fake bubble. You can't even be married once to be a priest I believe
Well, obviously you can because I do. And my parents are even divorced.
Most of my family is in the branch of Anglicanism and it is a less 'strict' branch of Christiantiy, so sorry for the wrong terminology but I'n not being 'fake' or lying, I was genuinely looking for someone to help me out.
+Hanneli Seirrah
sorry that you are in that difficult position. for my own part I used to be a believer and then stopped when I understood where ancient Judaism and Christianity came from. kind of hard to put the genie back in the bottle at that point so I've been an atheist for a few years now. I try to empathize with people who believe in the supernatural and to not criticize them because I don't want to be rude or make them feel uncomfortable -- but where I'm at now I consider the idea of souls, an afterlife, god/s etc etc to be extremely ridiculous. of course I don't go around telling people this because I don't want to burst their bubble but the idea of a supernatural dimension is ridiculous to me. I feel ashamed of the fact that for most of my life I thought the world was 6000 years old and that when I was having an unusually difficult day that the devil or demons were messing with me. I was so pathetically ignorant, and when I think back to those times I cringe.
there's not much you can do as long as you live with your parents. if they have conversations trying to convince you, maybe you can ask them questions about the origins of the bible and use it as an opportunity to educate them. I recommend yale courses old testament course here on UA-cam, the professor is quite the orator and she really breaks down where ancient Judaism came from. but it's unlikely that this will be enough to change their mind. if it at least makes them more accepting of your position, that could be enough for you for now. just remember to be gentle about it and don't give them any opportunity to call you a firebrand atheist because that would just give them more ammo to use against you. Goodluck man
+Hanneli Seirrah Stay strong, Hanneli! There are more and more of us who don't fall prey to religion every year... Fairly soon many people will find the truth. They just have to do it on their own... Have an awesome 2016!
I am an agnostic but when I see anyone shitting on someone else's religion, I don't tolerate it. We all have our beliefs and ways to subjectively explain our own meaning of life so we shouldn't impose our own ideology in our religious or non-religious lives onto others.
+
hear, hear!
+
The truth is, if a religion is causing harm directly or indirectly, it calls to be shit on. Blasphemy law should be out of the free world and I can freely shit on any idea I like - political, economic or religious.
This is a comment from four years ago, get a life.
You could believe in a giant doughnut creating life on earth as long as you aren't a jerk about it.
I know; I'm fine with other people who believe different things than me, but those who are disrespectful to others and their faith just anger me beyond what is rational.
What if what they believe directly and aggressively contradicts your belief.
Nathan Flack Doesn't matter. As long as they don't force it on others. For example, you can think being gay is a sin and unnatural as long as you don't hate people under the rainbow and act like the Russian gov't.
You can't prove there isn't a giant doughnut creating life on earth. Why don't you just leave this country if you're not going to let people believe what they want? That's it I've lost my patience already I declare war on you non believers.
modern philosopher thank you mr philosopher sir, you've literally just summed up my perspective on religion perfectly.
I was born into a semi secular family, my mom was raised Christian of some kind, probably Catholic, and my dad was raised by a Finnish immigrant who fled the Soviets, and a Native American. I grew up without much concern about theism of any kind, then went to a Catholic highschool because it's where my brother went. I was Catholic for a while, then became one of your typical jaded teenagers and was all "atheism is the way to go". Then I grew up and started thinking more critically, and did my own research on a lot of things, and came to the conclusion that Islam holds the same values I do, so I converted to Sufism. Depending on the approach to religion, and the context it's taken in, it could be as good of a thing as it is conceived to be bad.
I really don't get why we can't just coexist. A few weeks ago, my friend was selling lemonade to raise money for her church. Not only did I buy a cup, I stayed for several hours in the heat, helping them out with the lemonade stand. I have never been to church a day in my life. It was that easy.
Much love
hehehehe dandy lions hehehe
lol
When I was a little kid I never thought about religion. Because of that, I believed everything I was taught in Sunday school, such as the seven days. When I learned to read I started reading a lot about science. I learned about the theory of planet formation and evolution. Then I started to doubt the church because of the lies they taught me.
i can understand your skepticism and sense of betrayal, but many christian religions (not sure which one you're referring to) believe the 7 days stories, the creation of man, and such to be myth stories. Stories that teach religious truth rather than historical fact. For example the 7 day story taught that God created everything to be good and man to watch over the world (as a religious belief) but did not specify that a "day" was 24 hours or how it all came to be, just that it "was". Many MANY religious people believe in the theory of evolution. i'm sorry if your church was one that thought the earth was 4000 years old and made you a non-believer as a result
I wish that religions (Christianity in particular) actually tried to convince you that you should believe in them not just brain-wash you into never critically thinking about religion and your place in the world. I say this because my story is very similar.
Cailin McGuire .... That's a little defeatist. I think a lot of people hate war, and although we recognize that it may sometimes be necessary; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try get rid of it.
Same with religion. It may be that one can never convince everyone to stop thinking faith without evidence is a good thing, but for every person who starts to think critically the world will hopefully get a little bit better.
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
-Albert Einstein
thatLegoguy "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
- Albert Einstein
Read your quotes in context.
For me, I treat religion as a bed-time story, told to the "child" that was the human-race at the time. Much like most children, they were naive, asking questions that had no answers, or were simply pointless. Humanity in its current state, is more akin to a typical teenager. Not remarkably smart, but not stupid. Unfortunately, even as we have become more mature in asking questions, we still cling to old bed-time stories, fearing what might be in the dark, and acting accordingly.
It really is a bit of a shame.
Dude, calling my religion childish..... maybe you could at least respect the many people who follow these religions, instead of calling them childish by extension.
Nihilist, atheist and I love helping people.
+Chickenp00nage2 Cool. It's pretty awesome to have brain wiring that does that, huh? ^.^
Did you put any effort into setting it up that way? =D
+Chickenp00nage2 That wouldn't make you a nihilist in the strictest sense of the term though.
Bob Shatner If Nihilist didn't enjoy anything it would make life shorter.
SerpentStare If I put nihilist after atheist it might give the impression that it was connected to atheism.
Chickenp00nage2 Nothing wrong with it, and glad that you love helping people, just that very few people are truly nihilistic. :) But i do get what you mean.
Decided I'd throw my two-cents about religion in.
I grew up as a christian but realized that is not my religion. I identify as a deist, meaning that I believe there is a God or some type of higher power that created us and gave us free will, but doesn't intervene in our lives. I believe God gave us the freedom to make our own choices so we could live life how we want to. In short, I believe in God but not in religion. :)
"I identify as a deist, meaning that I believe there is a God or some type of higher power that created us and gave us free will, but doesn't intervene in our lives."
There's no evidence of that whatsoever. You may as well stop kidding yourself and take the final step to Atheism.
You see, I would do that, but... I'm kind of comfortable with the religion I identify with. I mean, it took me like 2 years to find. I could completely change my viewpoint on my beliefs by one UA-cam comment, but... why would I?
In all honesty, I know there isn't proof, but who knows? Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't. At the end of the day, all we have are our own beliefs and what we choose to do with them. :)
He has a point, besides if you join us in the Atheist camp then you can have all the devils food cakes without feeling guilty! You'll still feel guilty! but not for religious reasons!
I believe in religion. I'm just not a part of any of it.
We're in the same boat. I look at the universe and all its marvels and I think there is some higher order to it (which I call God), but I reject any claim to exclusive divine revelation. To paraphrase what Thomas Paine wrote in The Age of Reason, the Word of God is the Universe, which cannot be counterfeited.
If you want avoid answering a question, just say "I don't want to talk about it". It'd take 2 seconds rather than 3.5 minuets.
Personally I don't believe in any gods nor do I really have a religion, although I am still growing up and am only 15, however, just because I don't believe in God does not mean I will criticize people who do. I personally think everyone should be able to respect other people's opinions, not only because it's the polite and reasonable thing to do, but also because it is their life and they can do whatever they desire with their own life. Their choices normally never have an impact on you unless they choose to lead a war or something of those sorts. Basically, everyone please respect other people's opinions.
I agree. I am also 15 but I am rather religious. I believe there is a god somewhere. I also believe that people are entitled to believe what they want to believe. Who knows. My religion may be wrong, it may be spot on. I accept that and I think that everyone should too. Fighting over the Internet saying "I'm right and you're wrong" is completely inefficient and honestly doesn't affect anyone. Your comment on a UA-cam video isn't going to convert anyone, and the comment is probably going to get lots of hate. It's just the way it is. Nobody knows for sure whether there is a god out there, but that's why it's called Faith You have Faith that God is there somewhere even though you can't see Him (for lack of a better pronoun). And that is my two cents (is that the correct phrase lol?) on the ongoing argument on religion.
serenityrenity
Both you and Katrina have truly beautiful posts
Thank you for sharing them.
serenityrenity As I am non-religious, I am curious as to whether you plan to teach your future child (if you have one) of your religion.
+rthqwaik (I hope I spelt that right haha) I do plan to teach them about my beliefs. My family is not terribly religious (we do not go to the temple every day or pray together every night and whatnot) but we do celebrate all the holidays the same way my parents did in their families growing up and I want to use those same rituals with my family in the future as I do now.
I totally agree. I'm your age too, but have the most bizarre religious background: Brought up Christian, converted to Atheist, and then I went to study many other religions. In the end, I made my own religion. I fully know that I might not be right, but it doesn't matter whether or not I am, because it's how I like to view the world. And with this understanding, I know that it is important for us all to respect how others wish to view their world.
The one thing we can all agree on is
that life is beautiful. Can't we all just appreciate living?
Not clinically depressed people.
According to the Internet, No.
I desperately want to make a joke saying, "All life except your mom!" but I won't.
+
yattmale no we cabt
I am a born Jew, but not a practicing one. My religion is doing good deeds and being an overall good person. Personally, I do not see the point in following a book that was written thousands of years ago.
No one is born being a particular religion.
icampos89 To be Jewish is more than to believe the religion, it is passed down maternally, so if your mother was Jewish you are considered Jewish too, if you are a woman then your kids will be too, you may choose not to practice the religion but you are still Jewish, (this is because there is never any doubt as to wether your mother is your mother or not, therefor if your mother was Jewish you know for certain you are from the Jewish line as well) it is a culture as well as a religion and has historic roots, so yes while no one is born being a particular religion you can be born Jewish
Laura Stewart that helps allot, there was this thing in the Quran I didn't quite understand, but now I do ! :D thanks ! oh and you're free to follow whatever belief you have
Is it not fallacious to use the age of the text as an argument against its truth? If an encyclopedia written in 2014 is 100 years old in 2114, does that make it less true? Indeed it doesn't. It may have some truths that were not relevant to the text or hadn't been discovered yet but it doesn't mean the text is less truthful.
Daniel Mackay Why don't you take the book "Natural History." It was written in Roman times, and although showed an interest in explaining the natural world, and Pliny was pretty great at it; he showed many fields of sciences, he was also very wrong. It was a great book, the template of modern encyclopedias, but also wrong. At the time, it was considered truth. So it does mean the text was less truthful, because of context. What if in 2114, someone proves Einstein wrong? It would then be less truthful than it is now. As time goes on, people learn more about the earth.
Yes! Thank you for making this video. Nihilism has actually been a major topic on my mind recently, so that's awesome to come across your talk here. You're absolutely right that the bigger question we need to be confronting is how to continue bringing meaning into our lives. Humans have stepped into a whole new era, and those traditions of old can't help but change in meaning. But either way, each one of us has to reckon with our own "revelations," as you say. Right on. Good video.
Atheist Flame war fighter reporting for duty.
+Steven Contreras yeah I thought John was an atheist. Hopefully Hank is, he's more science-oriented anyways
+Jeeto I'm sorry but honestly why do you guys care at all about what we believe. bc let's for a sec say that y'all are right about relegion. still what does it hurt to believe in God?
+Asa Render Our rights are trampled for not believing in him, and we're alienated. That's what hurts.
Nordic Fox I'll be honest, I can see how Christians could offend you buy making unkind and unneeded comments but even while living in Alabama I don't see that much either. While people might not be supportive of it and make offending actions I don't really see any trampling of rights even while living in Alabama which as u know is super conservative
+Asa Render Start openly saying you're an atheist... You'll see how many jobs, friends, and other opportunities disappear.
Mostly... I think people are entitled to their own beliefs, and I don't trample people's beliefs until they force them on me.
And currently, we live in a country that has equal rights, but "moreso equal" if you happen to be a Christian. "In God We Trust" is on our money, on our CIA building, and since the 1950's it was no longer "one nation, indivisible" because Christians felt you had to be a communist if you didn't believe in God.
It's tribalism, and I refuse to respect it. I respect religious people, but just as they expect me to not stand outside a church with a megaphone, I expect them to have the common decency to keep their imaginary friend out of schools, courthouses et cetera. IF they could agree that public land is NEUTRAL, I'd be happy as a clam.
I get where you're coming from, and I don't like being rude to people... But where I live, you can't go anywhere now without Christians handing out pamphlets, putting up Jesus billboards, wearing huge crosses, handing out Bibles, etc. On public land no less!
So it may be different from state to state.... But I don't intend on being quiet... Not while people assume it's okay to trample on what I think. If the religious shut up, I too will shut up.
"Live and let be" would be an awesome policy... But it's going to be a while before that truly happens. It's getting there... But there is resistance to equality everywhere.
I go to friends' houses and see pictures of Jesus, the Virgin Mary, and huge crosses everywhere... And I never say anything, because it's their home.
But I've lost friends just by wearing atheist t-shirts in MY OWN HOME. In High School I was told it was 'offensive' to wear a shirt that simply said "this is what an atheist looks like"... But other kids were free to walk around wearing 'Jesus loves you' on everything.
Equality, brother. Funny how sometimes it plays favorites, ain't it?
We often forget that religion (and nihilism, and even science) is a thing that people do and not a force unto itself. It cannot be divorced from humanity and it doesn't make sense to judge it as such. Instead of saying, "religion is good because it does x" or "religion is bad because it does y," we should say "people can use religion to do z."
This is speaking from a non-believer of god's point of view: Religion doesn't kill.
Religion is merely a concept, whether you choose to belive it or not, it is your personal choice.
What kills are the humans who use religion as a lethal weapon.
It is exactly the same concept as 'Bullets do not kill people, the gunner who pulled the trigger did'.
I met good Christians and I love them. I met good Muslims and I love them. I met good Catholics and I love them.
Stop spreading the hate.
[angrily stated, misinformed opinion about religion]
[Extremely offensive comment in which a really bad explanation that is easily disproven is given]
William Pratt [Totaly irrelevant side stepping correction of your gramar, while makin three spelling errors myself]
[angrily disses feminism for no particular reason]
[insert your mom joke here]
ellabooxo
[Thinly veiled insecurity. A non-apology for my ingrained misogynistic views.]
I just realized- Hank never breathes, and John never blinks xD
To be one in 7.2 billion people I feel so insignificant
Everyone is worth something in the eyes of God. The comment before this was an atheist's standpoint. Wouldn't you much rather have my Christian standpoint. Christ bless you, and have a wonderful life.
What I really care about is not if others notice me, but humans (7.2 billion, and still counting) destroying the earth, its environment, its history, its culture
No. Nothing great about that. I actually have the same given name as Bush.. I hate that man, and his father too. George HW Bush said about atheists in 1987 interview was disgusting.
Sad news for everyone: population has jumped to 7.3 billion!
It's so fast...
Lost it at "dandy lions"
I'm so glad I found this channel.
Here's my opinion on the whole "meaning of life" thing. The meaning of everyone's life is to do something they enjoy that also benefits society. For example, entertainers like musicians, actors, youtubers and Hollywood directors (usually) enjoy their jobs and the general public gets entertainment out of it. This basic concept can be applied to law enforcement, culinary arts, computer technicians, inventors and just about anything else people decide to do with their lives. This is just my personal opinion, agree with it or not.
"Religion is a response to revelation."
You are my new best friend.
Religion ain't never done hurt nobody, never!
True, it's religious people that has done considerable hurt.
I ain't understand you's highfalutin gobbledygook. Talk simple-like.
Religious people live longer. The average christian in America is more likely to say that he or she has lived a happy live than an average american atheist. Most intellectuals, which usually implies intelligent persons, do not believe in god. Most crusades were lead to the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation's eastern border to fight against heathens there and to take their lands for the crown and for the militant religious orders like the Knight's Templars, which greatly increased those organisations power. Hitler used religious appeal as a voting technique. You are more likely to become an elected government official if you claim to be religious in almost all countries in the world. Religious power and authority allowed catholic priests to rape and molest hundreds of little boys, without fear of retribution.
MY conclusion out of these facts is that religion does good for individual believers, but is a too powerful tool to gain power, that can be used for incredible evil. It has this power, because religion directly touches your emotions. This can heal and help people who need a emotional connection or need to feel that they are important. It also gives anyone trying to manipulate for whatever reason you a highway to your higher reasoning.
David Markus links? proof? Where do you get your statistics from?
David Markus guitardaddy6 Y'alls ain't makin' no sense. Religion be the nectar of the Almighty! No one's can says otherwise.
I loved this, John. As usual, you have put into words what I have working out in my head for several years now. One of your best!
This is a great video! I like how he points out what religion really is. I never understood why people are so uncomfortable with talking about religion and why people fight over it. I'm wiccan but that doesn't mean you have to be. Just because peoples religions are different doesn't mean we need to fight about it. Coexist, meaning, you do your thing, I'll do mine, let's be friends. Let's just all like each other
He's so humble I love him
I grew up knowing that whatever I decide to believe in is fine as long as it does not corrupt me. I don't understand why people have to argue about religion. There is no way of knowing who is right and who is not, so why waste all that energy trying to convince someone of something they just don't believe? Why should I let the fact that someone does not share my perception of the world have a negative impact on my well-being? I honestly don't get it.
If everyone behaved like that, there would be no pioint arguing about religion. Unfortunately, there are people who take their religion and make it hurt people. The anti vaccination movements, refusing blood transfusions, campaigning against abortions and condoms, etc.
The majority who don't behave this way do often get tarred with the same brush as the violent crazy minority, and thats unfair. The people we argue against, you'd argue against too.
If everyone had as enlightened an opinion on the matter as you, the world would be a better place. But to get there, we first have to marginalise and/or convince the extremists on both sides of the issue.
James Bennett It's too bad that most of the arguments by atheists are usually just against the normal majority. It's the fact that people generalize as groups and not individuals in these arguments that make atheists seem like dicks to a lot of theists. Although most atheists aren't dicks but it can just come across that way if you use the internet as a basis for what you think atheists are like.
Drew Gaughan Unfortunately, that's true. Discussions about theology usually collapse into ad hominem abuse pretty quickly, when either the atheist says the religious person is ignorant or the theist says that the atheist is a willful sinner and will burn in Hell forever. One or other or both gets offended and/or defensive.
I imagine it's because it's such a sensitive topic.
You're right. A lot of arguments made, particularly on the topic of morality, are stereotypes. It's not always so though, as many are based on the morality espoused in the Bible, or the seeming lack of an objective morality if there is no God.
I would just point out that that door swings both ways. For every argument about the immorality of the Catholic Church, or the hatred of gays, I'll hear one about how this dictator was an atheist or that atheists are statistically more likely to kill themselves.
If atheists are maligned by their internet presence, theists are too.
Personally, I don't get too bothered by these stereotyping arguments. I just try to point out that you can't judge the actions of the whole by the actions of a fraction, so it's a flawed argument. If that doesn't work, I either agree to disagree or just drop the discussion.
I think the fact that we both just agreed on the problem is proof that those arguments aren't good examples of the majority of people. This just proved that most people, theist or atheist, are perfectly kind. :)
Drew Gaughan Yes. The problem is that the vocal, horrible minority have inordinate amounts of power and influence. And that is the only reason the whole argument about religion has any purpose.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you and YES, John.
classic vlogbrothers at its finest!
I don't understand John's definition of nihilism. Nihilism entails we believe that we do nothing and believe nothing and value nothing. Plus, I think he may be referring to egoism, which is easily confused with nihilism. In particular, Mr. Green could be referring to Nietzsche's version of egoism in which is an extreme individualist position in that we should follow our desires and reason in order to pursue our goals. Now I wonder how John could explain the conflict between self-sufficiency and responsibility to others as that comes into conflict at all time in Kantian ethics.
***** There's a joke in the Big Lebowski where a guy who claims he's a nihilist complains about his situation. Case in point, if one is a nihilist, they would not give a single care about failure, or success or do a single thing. Also you go about saying that there are no moral values and we should do whatever we want, the latter statement is in contradiction with nothing as it entails desire, and from desire that is stating a value.
***** Okay then a traditional thought experiment.
Imagine a teacher hands you back a paper you wrote on nihilism. You find that you got an "F" on the paper, no matter how well written it is. Your reaction is that you don't deserve that "F" at all. However the teacher explains that if you believed if you believed nothing, you would not react to the ramifications of the given grade.
+CosmoShidan That theory doesn't work though because that F does have a tangible impact on that person's life. Nihilist may believe that life has no meaning or higher purpose, a notion that I myself subscribe to, but that doesn't mean they are excluded from life itself. Just because you're a nihilist doesn't mean that you don't care about what happens to you or to other people because everyone wants to have a good and happy life, for me the whole point of Nihilism is to make the most of the life you're currently living because that's all you have. I believe that there isn't a plan for you, there is nothing waiting for you when you die, and that there isn't a reason that you're alive. That fact that there isn't a reason for being alive is what makes it so remarkable to me, the idea that there's nothing waiting for me when I die is what makes me want to live my life to the fullest and to be as happy as I can possibly be while I'm alive and try to help others do the same, the belief that there isn't a plan or a higher purpose to my birth is what inspires me to give it one myself. I know that everything I do, everything I achieve, everyone I help I did because I wanted to, not because I was made to do it. And I have no idea if any of this is true, I'm no more certain about my world view than the most devout religious person is about theirs because no one can be 100% sure about the nature of the world we live in, all we can do is follow the path that makes us the happiest and feel the most secure about our spot in the world.
Lincoln E "That theory doesn't work though because that F does have a tangible impact on that person's life. Nihilist may believe that life has no meaning or higher purpose, a notion that I myself subscribe to, but that doesn't mean they are excluded from life itself. Just because you're a nihilist doesn't mean that you don't care about what happens to you or to other people because everyone wants to have a good and happy life, for me the whole point of Nihilism is to make the most of the life you're currently living because that's all you have."
However, you've now made a paradox by creating a value, in this case your life. Nihilism entails that there are no intrinsic values or any meaning to life at all. And to suddenly show that you give any care to what happens to oneself of all places, all times and all people is inapplicable, insofar as nihilism entails absolutely nothing.
"That fact that there isn't a reason for being alive is what makes it so remarkable to me, the idea that there's nothing waiting for me when I die is what makes me want to live my life to the fullest and to be as happy as I can possibly be while I'm alive and try to help others do the same, the belief that there isn't a plan or a higher purpose to my birth is what inspires me to give it one myself. I know that everything I do, everything I achieve, everyone I help I did because I wanted to, not because I was made to do it."
Unfortunately, because you suggested life is an intrinsic value, and now happiness, that entails that you aren't even a nihilist at all. What you are doing is answering the the Euthyphro Dilemma. The Euthyphro Dilemma is the question "are things good and bad because God says they are? Or are things good and bad because God recognizes them?". The first premise entails that if God says they are good and bad because he says they are good and bad, it means that good and bad are but His word of mouth. And that his word is law since he is more powerful than mortal humans. Hence this is a consequentialist view in the tradition of might makes right. The second premise on the other hand, God recognizing good and bad entails that he knows what those concepts are. Thereby he need not tell us what is good and bad, and that morality comes from all human beings since we have moral intuitions. That is to we have moral intuitions naturally, thus making them as objective as mathematical facts. In the case of nihilism, there are no objective facts.
"And I have no idea if any of this is true, I'm no more certain about my world view than the most devout religious person is about theirs because no one can be 100% sure about the nature of the world we live in, all we can do is follow the path that makes us the happiest and feel the most secure about our spot in the world."
What you described throughout your statements is not nihilism, but objective morality. Because we value life and happiness, and we do not want either of these things to be trampled on by others, it is what makes morality objective since all human beings desire not to be harmed in the first place. Though the word you are missing is autonomy. That is the ability to make decisions intimidated. To be able to have self-governance over yourself as well as dignity or self-respect. It is a means with fulfilling one's duty onto themselves and others and to give meaning to life and happiness. For nihilism, none of these things apply, for there is no room for values in it. Especially as nihilism does not believe in values at all, making it unlivable.
CosmoShidan I guess you have a point and it's extremely apparent to me that you know a lot more about the topic than I do so I'm not going to try and argue about it. What I will say is that your definition of Nihilism seems like taking its principles to the absolute extremes and that there are very few people if any who follow any ideology to its absolute zenith. I would still consider myself having nihilistic tendencies even accepting your definition, it's just that I would apply them to more spiritual and intangible areas rather than my own physical life. I think that life and morality have absolutely no meanings besides what we as individuals give it, and that meaning that we give it is what drives us to be happy in life. So maybe it's not a pure Nihilist view on the world but I think it definitely has elements of it. I don't think anyone could truely go through life being that dead to the world around them that they could call themselves a Nihilist and actually follow every tenant it purposes.
That was the single most skillful avoidance of any topic I have ever seen and I bow to you sir.
DANDY LIONS I'M DYING.
Atheist here. My religious father once asked me how I could make moral decisions if God's judgment was not motivating me to do so.
I told him it terrified me that his only motivation for morality was the fear of God.
We haven't really talked about religion since.
When you talk about everyone wanting their life to matter, it basically means we all fear oblivion.
Dear John & Hank,
Thank you for being so cautious on this subject. I love all of your guys videos, but I was really reluctant to watch videos on your religious view points. I didn't want to spoil any thoughts of how much I liked you guys if you were smashing other peoples thoughts on religion. You handled it really well, and I would like to thank you. DFTBA!!! -Rachel
I live in portland oregon. a place devoid of understanding and respect for other people's belief
john and hank are awesome-ists
I, as an atheist/agnostic type, see religion as mostly just another way for people to disagree with one another. A massive amount of the wars throughout history started either because of religion directly or when religion was used as a scapegoat. I personally don't think that I have ever in my life felt any kind of spirituality, even though I was raised Catholic. I decided I was an atheist the second I learned the definition of the word atheist. I was still forced to go to Catholic school though, which sucked. But recently I've become more agnostic, mostly because I've come to the understanding that although organized religion definitely does still seem to be a total waste of time that's often just another way for ignorant people to spew hate, it seems even more ignorant for someone who is just a tiny spec in the grand scheme of things to be the one deciding whether or not something greater than her could exist.
I came to this conclusion by asking myself "How the fuck would any of us know if it didn't want us to? It's very existence would be defined by the fact that is would be more powerful than us, so why the fuck do we think that we should get to make decisions based on what we think it is?" I mentioned earlier that I don't like organized religion, and that's mostly because organized religions tend to make broad generalizations of the beliefs of every person who might practice the religion. Broad generalizations tend to marginalize people who deviate from them. No one practices religion exactly the same as someone else, because religion is an highly personal thing that has to do with how much you feel connect to something larger than you.
I got into a small debate about this recently in an art class with two friends of mine; a guy who is an atheist and a girl who is a Muslim. We were talking about it because we had just hear the news about Christopher Hitchens's death, and the topic came up because of the nature of Hitchens's book "The God Delusion" which I do kind of agree with on a lot of things. But the stubbornness to believe anything the other was saying from both my atheist friend and my Muslim friend were astonishing. I had thought that they might see how similarly they were acting and come to a conclusion based on it. They did not.
+Jennie King it s richard dawkins book maybe you were talking about " god is not great " , so anyway , as a muslim who gets against his will on many religious debates , your assertions really seems to be just stereotypes based on personal experience , of course religion can be used by idiots to spread hatred and control the masses , but everything that has such a powerful impact can , science is a really powerful tool which can be used for wrong things too , and scientific progress led to many wars and destruction , politics too , and of course atheism , i never get that argument , we just don t have control over these things so we should eradicate them ? i don t get the point i mean unfortunatly today idiots have the loudest voices and they enforce our thinking with such stereotyped and biased idelogies and i think we should understand that humans are the problem and the solution to all this , not religion , atheism , politics , .....etc
i guess we should learn to accept others and understand their difference instead of trying to impose our thinking into , i discovered great things in atheism ( that s hard to admit but in islam perspective i should say that ) , accepting that the notion of difference is what makes us humans , if we delete that from our brains soon enough we ll be : robots , ( or communists euh...no robots )
I feel rather the same way. I'm an atheist because I know that none of the gods humanity has conceived can be real, but I'm an AGNOSTIC atheist because I recognize that some sort of deistic god which we are completely unable to comprehend could exist. I simply don't believe in it.
I'm impressed and delighted at the enlightened and civil tone of the comments. Nerdfighters, are AWSOME!!!
Religion was not created to cause arguments nor wars, religion was meant to bring together a group of people so that they could show their love towards whatever god they believe in. I am not religious however in saying that I have seen or am familiar with many different types of religions (in real life or through text) which is truly intriguing to see the other cultures and diversity but I can say that there are cases where they exclude people because of a certain quality about them (for example being gay) or think that their religion is superior to another religion. I personally don't agree with forcing your religious opinions on others (unless you are asked) because I'd rather get to know you before knowing your religion. In summary, religion isn't something that should be an argument, religion is a personal belief that you should use to connect with the others who have the same religious views and learn about others religions with respect (like in Pi the book and movie where he learns about hinduism, Christianity and islamic views). Without religion this world would suffer a great loss of literature, myths, history and culture but religion shouldn't be the reason you have a prejudice towards someone for being gay etc. Sorry this is long winded but I assume you get the gist of it
I love how people always assume I'm atheist because I'm not Christian.
If you are not a theist or an atheist, then are you an agnostic? At which point on the scale are you? You can't really be neither of these
EnidoxMusic I wish we could dispose of the term agnostic. A theist has some sort of religion / faith an athiest does not. Someone who claims to be agnostic is either a thiest who has a hard time explaining what it is they have faith in or and athiest who is open to some sort of religious or faith based inspiration. All this being said, many people make the assumption that people will be Christian, and if they are not that they simply are not religious. It is an uncomfortable truth that other religious practices are often not understood and forgotten.
I think of it as no religion and just not disproving of a god and not
Proving of one either. That's what I prefer to belive is neither I don't like to get into religion to be honest.
You know those religious debates you were talking about? The ones in which you don't participate? They're heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-eeeeeeere.
I think it is actually is a useful debate because of the things John says. I have spent twenty years of my life trying to get rid of the teachings I got when I was a child. My 'lens' was turned shut and had to be replaced mid-filming... I'm really sad that I didn't get to enjoy the wonders of the universe, the enthusiasm for life and the power of critical thought when I was younger. I was basically told: this is how narrow the world is, now just accept it and live by it.
John Green you are amazing
John didn't answer the question that this video sought to answer...
The title of the video is "On Religion" doesn't sound like a question per se, to me.
Andrew Welsh Science, as a belief, is equal to religion. It confuses me when people say they don't 'believe' in science, though, so I understand what you mean. Regardless, that symbol is there because people who 'believe in science' deserve the same respect as every religion out there...Read through the comments, you'll notice many people being told they're 'wrong' for "BELIEVING in science" or being Atheistic...you don't think they deserve the same respect on their beliefs as people who believe in a greater deity do? I fail to see how that's fair.
Andrew Welsh I understand that, as I stated...lol.
***** Exactly, why pick and choose?
*****
They are figuring things out with carbon dating. Another guy actually measures erosions and how long it takes within a year to happen. Erosions on rocks doesn't happen overnight. It takes a year to at least erode rock down to an inch, which is stretching. You can try to figure out the height of the grand canyon and figure out the math for that and get your answer. That's how they are doing it. And why not Big Bang and Evolution? It sounds just as plausible as a Being that we cannot see or hear don't you think? They are very real possibilities.
Honestly, John, I think you would make a great pastor. Not saying you should, but if you decided to do that, that would be cool.
0:02 Lol "is Hank green batman?"
Whenever a religious person brings up purpose, they always say something along the lines of "getting into heaven and bringing as many others with them a possible". I always follow up with a scenario: would you rather go out with your friends on a Friday, or would you spread the word of God. The answer is quite clear. We like the idea of a purpose, but we don't really act upon it. My nihilism is just acceptance of what we all already do.
"A woman was seen running through the streets of her hometown carrying a torch in one hand and a bucket of water. When asked what she was doing, she answered, "I am going to burn down the gates of heaven and douse the fires of hell so that people will love God not for want of heaven or fear of hell, but because he is God."
I feel like that's really the best way to live if you want to get into heaven because God apparently knows your every thought and motivation. If you're sucking up to him for selfish reasons, he'll know and not reward you. Live genuinely and your life will be the better for it, both here on Earth and in heaven (if you believe in heaven, which you don't have to to believe in God).
Katie Hochstetler Shirk: This raises the question of why god created heaven or hell in the first place.
+StateoftheNihil Or why God created ANYTHING in the first place. A perfect being would not have desires or needs, no motivation to do anything. So if the universe was created by a perfect being, how? It can't have been.
No matter how you spin it, no matter how you try to justify human experience as something important, when you remove anthropomorphic bias, saving human lives or trying to cure cancer or any of that in no way is "absolute". I cannot fathom the concept that people can expect to consistently believe that there is some arbitrary meaning to life that is somehow innate to the universe. Nihilism literally the only non-arbitrary choice. Everything else is based on our biases as humans, Christians, Muslims, secular humanists.
Life is innately meaningless. Thus, to the universe, it doesn't matter what we do or what occurs. That being said, nearly every human has feelings, and the vast majority have a deeply rooted sense of empathy. This will drive many people to do things in response to attempt to appease that empathy. I myself am "victim" to these evolutionary pressures to do certain things.
So the question ultimately comes down to, "Why do try to make the world more constructive, more peaceful, more cooperative, and just a more hospitable place for humans and other types of nature in general?"
The answer is not, "Because we should," it's because, "We want to". There is no "right" or "wrong" in it beyond what we arbitrarily define based off of these desires. However, it is inevitable that I will try to stop murder. This is not because I believe it is absolutely wrong, it is because it will bring suffering into my life that I wish to avoid, and thus I define it to be subjectively wrong.
Actually john most Muslims DO follow all five pillars...the ones that don't get called out a lot...
Of course this begs the question: "Why should we do anything?" If I don't see any reason in benefiting the human race, why should it be defined by society as being wrong? The main problem with not coming to an understanding about WHY our lives have meaning is that we could make up any meaning we want to DO anything we want, even if it means HARMING the human race as a whole. An interesting point that you make is that we all seem to have an inner desire to help those around us. This begs the question of where this innate desire came from in the first place and why it is innate to people. Of course there are those who do not desire to do good - also begs the question of what good universally is - and that there must be a reason for the deviation from the desire. Interesting way of looking into the issue and I appreciate your insights.
An observation based on surveying the comments of this video. There are three types of commentators on UA-cam.
1. Those who like hearing themselves talk
2. Those who are intellectually insecure
3. Those who want to contribute to a discussion
(Feel free to add to my list)
I don't believe that #3 exists on the Internet.
Real life? Yes. Internet? No.
Those who like to watch the world burn
I'm a #3. I just can't find any polite discussions.
Erich Holthaus your comment just sounded like the start to a discussion. .
Erich Holthaus
Real life people and internet people are one and the same though.
We should all just go with I don't care. As long as you aren't throwing a hand grenade threw my window for what I believe in you're fine. Why insult each other when we can just get on with our lives and acknowledge the fact that we're all human beings.
Because that would make to much sense.
When I listen to atheists, I hear people who were hurt by religion. Being bitter and labeling everything you see, is not going to make your experience happy in this world. I think people who agree to disagree are generally content people who are happy with their life. Those who engage in bitter arguments are sad, hurt and are revolutionaries by nature who are looking for a cause to flight and they may have found one.
RC Pilot Multirotor If you were hurt by religion, you didn't go looking to get hurt. The religion went looking to hurt you. Religions teach people to fight. Religions bear the main responsibility on both counts.
I love his view on religion, it's so elegant! Way to be diplomatic John!
Fishing for compliments John? You do have an amazing body, ask the yeti.
Jessica Olson he says he has a "massive parallel processing unit" that sits on top of his head that he "could use to like contribute to cancer research or write a novel or puzzle through quantum mechanics." But he is writing a novel, so what's he complaining about? Also, yeah, i agree, he has a very amazing body ;-)
i'm inspired by this
As a nihilist, I honestly feel attacked right now.
But, you're nihilist, so there's no point in caring. :)
What's a Nihilist?
A kind of atheist, the ones who at least admit without the belief in God there's no point to life, and that death nor life means anything.
How many types of Atheists are there? And I've never thought a belief existed.
Well, that's an extreme more truthful atheism, of course I don't believe that, but come on, if we're here by chance, nihilists are right, it's all pointless... So, there's really only one form of atheism, there are just those who are more honest than others.
Notice that a common theme of John Green's is that people want to matter.
But don't you have to get people to put aside their religious beliefs in order to even have that discussion in the first place? All religions claim to have all the answers, or at least to take their own doctrinal claims as the axiomatic foundation on which to build the answers. You simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with someone who prizes faith over reason.
i dont do that, everytime i hear something strange about my religon i look for even the slightest of proof
What about your core beliefs? And are you really looking for evidence, or just rationalization?
FirstRisingSouI evidence, i dont just use religon too comfort me, im just saying, i think its the most logical explanation at this point
and i know you have different opinions, well guess what, i have my own opinions WOW how incredible
Fair enough. Just making sure.
Is John Green a banana? lol
Go read some Christopher Hitchens.
Why?
It's an interesting critique of religion and it's very well wrote.
I'm sure there are many such writings. Did you mean to imply that Christopher Hitchens' view is along the same line as John Green's?
Oh hell no! That's why I'm suggesting it, John didn't really establish a strong stance on religion, Hitchen's does.
And there are a lot of books like his but Hitchens are the best.
This is one of the most beautiful dancing around this question that I have ever seen
Personally, I do not believe in God and all that. But I do not judge people if you believe in that and are not hurting anyone. But I feel that the Catholic and Christian church are too judgmental. But, just me
The Vulcan Superhero The catholic church is just true to its history my whole country is catholic with no prejudice and we get along fine.
All the debates in the comments feature the same things about where morality comes from. I would argue that on a fundamental level, morality is already known and defined by all religions, but with atheism there can't be anything but subjective morality that prevents human unity....now why would I say that? Atheism is the "belief" in nothing. If you can bring yourself to merely believe in nothing for lack of evidence then you can subjectively justify anything. Therefore, I'd say the only ones with a truly good argument on morality would be agnostics. Any non-religion believing thinker/scientist must be an agnostic, else he/she has no objective beliefs...my opinion with a little fact thrown in.
Everyone is agnostic.
And atheism is not a belief in nothing, It's a belief that there is no god. Specifically no god.
They can believe in anything else, but if they believe in a deity of any kind they are not atheists.
EpicRAWRRR Well...is that not just semantics? Seems like a belief in nothing to me as you can't disprove something higher than the physical boundaries of our universe.
It's not the belief in nothing. That's not semantics, it's fact.
You can believe murdering is bad, you can believe in reincarnation, you can believe in a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere in between mars and earth, but if you believe in a god you are not an atheist you are a theist.
Morals don't come from religion they come from social agreement.
EpicRAWRRR Did I say 'anything' about Theism? I did not. I only talked about atheism which you just so wonderfully made my point with. If we are going to follow logic, you said "but if you believe in a god you are not an atheist you are a theist" ....therefore if you do not "BELIEVE" in a god you are an atheist...making it a belief, and bringing us back to my very first comment.
Ok you hae this all twisted. Atheism is not a belief in nothing, which is what seems to be the opinion of all religions. Atheism is the belief that there is no evidence of God. In most cases Atheists just find that there is no benefit of being religious and worshiping a God. Personally I really don't care much for either because how badly each group represent themselves. You also talk about how morality comes from religion if i'm not mistaken. This is not true at all because morality in most cases is based on suffering which is actually being studied by neurologists. I just think that it is really stupid how almost every religious person I talk to on the UA-cam comments talks about some evidence for God when there isn't real evidence. That's why they are called "faith bases" religions.
Very interesting opinion, but just brushing aside the whole religion debate is naive at best, when the influence of religious dogma is so pervasive in our society, and so damaging.
being that he's a Christian he probably wouldn't agree that it's damaging, which it isn't
CaptainComposte
Pretty sure the homosexuals would disagree with you there. The only reason homosexualism is viewed poorly by some is due to religion.
Pretty sure the religious homosexuals would disagree with you there. They're mad at people who persecute them which includes some religions, but not all. One doesn't necessitate the other. I suggest you stop generalizing, it shows how uneducated and narrow minded you are.
CaptainComposte
Here's the deal, all three major monotheistic religions persecute homosexuals at their core. Sure, there are some branches and individuals that do not see a problem with them, but their central dogma is not favorable towards homosexuals.
Galtran
I hate to burst Capt's bubble but Christianity is pseudo-monotheism, the Trinity is 3 different persons and 3 different gods by human logic. until someone shows me any other kind of logic it's polytheism, neither is the trinity mentioned in the Old testament.
I'm impressed how you talked three and a half minutes about religion without saying whether or not you're religious. That's quite something.
He is. He mentions it in old videos.
Ex-Muslim here 🌹😀
Sorry to hear it
Why
Religion brings more suffering to the world, just because you are bible cherry picker and say what harm religion does, you still give moral support to those who actually follow the bible.
AAAAAnd you missed the point of the video.
More? More...more suffering? More. More. But your grudge offers nothing.
circusOFprecision it offerers coming out with my opinion, letting other know, that not everyone is brainwashed idiot, that they are not alone, and its ok to come out from atheist closet. but.. but.. youre supporting most stupid and evil thing in the world, just because you want there to be answers to everything, and that to you is just.. god did it, also you cant take it, that there aint afterlife, and you never going to see your dead loved ones again, so you have to make up fairy tales, to comfort yourself, jeez grow up and be an adult.
Janne Flinck
Dude, I get how you think. I think it's retarded, but I already get it.
Let me add something for your benefit. I don't care what you think, and no one is oppressing you. But what's weird is that you seem to know ALL of my thoughts on religious topics as if I exist in a box. It's not like that, at all. But you, you're all too predictable.
Janne Flinck Also who is to say that god not existing is actually a logical conclusion.I believe there is more evidence for the to be a god than not.
The universe has a beginning (the big bang) where all the matter and energy in the universe spontaneously poped in to existence. since thing dont normally pop in to existence we can infer that something outside of the universe created it.
I disagree. The basic purpose of religion is to keep the populous under control.
I seriously doubt it applies to EVERY religion.
Neocasko Maybe, you could be right. It's just how I see organized religion functioning since its earliest inception.
I would assume religion isn't purposely to keep the populous under control, religion is simply (kind of) like science in the way they were only trying to explain questions that no one really had the answer to (eg where did we come from?) however now mordern science has taken over that job, I think it is to keep alive hope in the afterlife and the unknown or maybe a way to keep a small reminder of the hardship their ancestors suffered through religion. I don't know I'm just guessing here.
charlotte cameron
That does make sense. I think religion was for a long time to explain things that were unexplainable. It certainlly makes more sense to me that mainly to keep a population under control. I think religion has its place in society and will simply not go away just because some atheists call them dumb for their beliefs. Especially since we still don't know everything. I personally find both fundamentalism and atheism too "limiting" as ideas to stick to either so VERY basically, my mindset is, "anything is possible so observe what happens".
charlotte cameron I agree with you; i think that religion was originally to explain the unexplainable, but it also conveniently does wonders to keep the populous under control. Why do people have ethics and morals that keep them from chaos and anarchy and evil? Because no matter what they call themselves, everyone has a set of beliefs and values that cause them t not indulge in evil in every way possible. And religion just helps to give a face, a definition to these sets of beliefs about good and bad in the world.
People need to just respect, not nessasarily agree, peoples love, laughter and company is more relevant to a person then religion
The fact is religion is important. You can pretend noone is blided by it, you can pretend that scientific sckepticism does not apply to God, you can pretend that having an imaginary friend as an adult is not insane, but that does not erradicate the problem, as long as we keep believing the lie that faith is a valid reason for anything we would have extremist and fundamentalists.
Religion is an important part of history, but it's silly!
pls take my wallet lord gaben
Shut the fuck up and give us HL3!
I saw a comment by you similar to this comment on a different video. Do you seriously just sit down at the computer and criticize religious people for fun?
Chrnan6710
Yeah, in case you haven't heard, this is called "communication". It's a more modern version of the gibberish that priests yell at you on a weekly basis.
Chrnan6710 Yes. If you are stupid, you deserve to be ridiculed.
I love this answer. Thanks.
I myself have been raised to be a relatively devout Catholic and after 10 years of catholic education I have come to see that Catholicism, although having some not-so-great aspects, is a beautiful religion with great people in its history. I also have high respect for other religions because after many world religion and world history classes I have come to know that religion is, in it's most basic definition, a way to unite people, and thats what makes it beautiful.
From what I've read, it's the realisation the life itself is inherently purposeless, and realising humanity is free, in that sense.
Existentialist nihilism is not only that, but the giving of purpose to life outside of its naturally developed purpose (Trees and photosynthesis, or something. Not much of a scientist) Like, the night-sky being beautiful and the ability for us to comprehend its awe-inspiring boundaries. Or the mainstream ones, like 'a child's laughter.' etc.
that is the most logical and lovly thing i have heard on utube in a long time, thanks for that amico ^^
I love this channel even though I don't care about religion you still made it interested you didn't forget to be awesome.
Old video, but the thumbnail alone already warranted a thumbs up.
I am an atheist because the idea of god is an unfalsifiable hypothesis, I despise organized religion because simply thinking for yourself makes us one of the most discriminated against groups in existence.
Life will reveal truth, Participating creates meaning. We will file as we go. All resourced things are done so as a means to an end. I'm learning about God, myself ,Love, and life. For longer than my time here.
THAT... Was a damn fine video. One of the most well thought out and spoken videos I've ever seen on here. So a typical vlogbrothers vid indeed
"The lense [through which we attempt to answer the question i.e. through a religion] does not interest me as much as the questions [i.e. how do we balance striving for meaning and a pleasurable life]"
This seems like a contradictory statement. Does John only find the question interesting but not the answers or the discussions it prompts? No, that can't be right. So he must instead only be interested in exploring the questions without "lenses".
The only problem with this is that questions that rest on valuing one thing over another require some kind of "lense" to be answered. Take John's own example of the kind of question he means: how are we gonna satisfy our urge to be more than nihilists with the need to blunt the sharpness of consciousness? If we approach this with a hedonist lense, get the opposite answer from that concluded from a Nietzschean lense.
John's problem is that he assumes an objective morality or value system in order to claim that we should not be arguing over which value system we should hold. The issue is that there are many different ideas for an "objective" reality, some relying on God, others on the inherent value of knowledge or whatever.
We need to construct value systems (or lenses) in order to approach answering the questions John is so interested in. And that's why the small matter of whether God exists is actually fundementally relevent to these questions and why discussing and (constructively) arguing over which belief system we should follow is so important, useful, and (when regulated) productive.
You may believe in an objective value system, John, and have one that you think we should use to answer questions, but that is far from decided.