all they had to do was say that Data left his emotion chip on the Enterprise in the end of Nemesis , and we already know the chip can contain memories . so they could have used that to explain that Data's memories had a backup instead of the "single neuron" b.s . this was a problem in Nemesis as well because by saying he copied his brain to B4 early in the movie made the ending very predictable. so I'm actually glad they didn't resurrect Data inside of B4 since that was too obvious and predictable . but they could have said they restored his consciousness from the emotion chip instead of the single neuron line . Soji should have had the consciousness of Lal which was stored inside Data. also Lore should have popped up as a villain since he was only dismantled and not destroyed but the writers totally forgot about him. and the story should have ended with Data becoming organic , fulfilling his life long ambition to be human , and stay on the planet of Androids as their leader to help educate them so that they don't become like Lore
they cant restore his conciousness though. he's dead. if they could restore him from his emotion chip or from the data in b4 then whatever they create from that is not data. because they could do all that while data is still alive, his conciousness would still be in data, not in a copy of his. same with picard. theyre both now dead.
Graeme Evans It’s more convoluted than that. As Major G says, you could wonder whether anyone is “real” after a transport, (making the movie The Prestige a Trek transporter story...). But then you have the question of whether a person can be genuinely copied, much less transferred from a body to another body, or even a machine. When Riker became 2 people, we are to find them fairly equivalent, not one soulless and the other genuine. However if you can reduce what Data would call his “self” into information, (a much more reasonable proposition than tackling the cosmic nature of an organic being’s possible “soul”), then there may be no meaningful distinction between 2 Datas, and no reason to discern different levels of authenticity. I’d ask: is there anything of substance which we cannot measure, a “soul”? Do all beings posses this quality? Do artificial beings have the capacity to have such a thing? Where does it reside? Can it be transferred, copied,divided, or altered? Does a person lose themselves in becoming non organic? Can an artificial intelligence lose inherent value by transferring from one shell to another, or even becoming organic? Robot to robot, AI to AI, seems like the most plausible way to maintain value and substance.
Like most things in this show, the cloning positrons BS was just a means to an end. In this case, giving Picard a valid reason to go galavanting around the galaxy chasing a synth. Sadly, no more thought went into the details than that. Even poor writers would at least attempt to make something halfway plausible, but not here. It was simply a case of them deciding "That will do". Well.... that didn't do, along with most of the other boneheaded contrivances they came up with.
Well not really. You have to understand vwhat a fractal is. Basically the information is the same small as it is big. So if there was a neuron that had fractal information, it would still be there. Look up fractals and chaos theory. That's what they were going for.
@@TheRealJuseBeats memory, especially neuron based memory, does not work on fractal pattern. Each memory triggers different pattern of neurons, And the pattern is different for every brain for the same memory. We can play the same song in our head but the neuron pattern will be totally different. So no
We've lost two epic franchises( Star Wars and Star Trek ) to producers and directors that don't want to respect source material or the fans that want to preserve it. So painful!
Dr Who and Terminator are gone too. Killed by the same means. The people in charge now clearly didn't actually watch the show and terminator appears to have been heavily influenced by other peoples view of what the francaise "should" be. With James Cameron it was thought he would save and bring back his vision. But instead it just threw another pile of shit in the mix New Dr. Who writer Chris Chibnal is literally Whos version of Kurtzman. Throwing the legacy, story, respect and cultural influence of an almost 60 year old show out the window for what they see as outdated dribble. Chris Chibnal literally appeared once on a tv show in the 90s saying how he though Dr Who was crap and he would change things to suit how he thought it should be (some kids questionnaire show I dunno) Granted when the show got the reboot it was a new writing staff but it was written by fans (I.e the legend of the franchise Russel T Davies) they were fans who have followed along the shows progression since it started in the 60s (or maybe jumped on in the 70s who knows). Basically Dr who got the kind of writer for the reboot star trek fans truly wanted. The show was lucky for that fact in 2005. But now the New new writer has come in and torn it all down. Done a full 180 degree turn and nobody is allowed to complain about it for the same reasons you're not allowed to think Discovery is bad. The times we live in basically
Graduates of Kurtzman University can confirm that if you take a single human heart cell, and clone it, you will get a new human with all the memories of the original.
WRO I think a closer analogy would be if you took a single brain neuron, and heck, I’ll be generous and say a neuron cluster from someone’s brain and then say: clone it and we will get a new human with some of the same memories. Regardless, it’s stupid on face value.
"The content of their logs and journals were transferred into my memory cells" I bet that Kurtzman saw that and thought that "memory cells" to an android computer are akin to the brain neuron cells... just like a cell phone is a phone that uses a human eardrum cell, a fuel cell is a biological cell that is fuel tank, a solar cell is a cell shaped like the sun, the cello is a cell made of Jell-o and a prison cell is a tiny microscopic prison.
Data copied himself onto B4. Sure, it didn't "take" but as far as raw data goes it should all be there. Why couldn't they just use that method? It's all right there.
That would require knowledge of TNG. A fair portion of Data was uploaded to B4, but not everything. Piecing it together from 50% of Data isn't that far fetched. Reconstructing Data from 1 bit of information is silly.
if you take a single cell from a classic series, like the name, you can create a whole series of "descendants" that bear no resemblance to the original. Where as the original was intelligent and progressive, these descendants could be mean, depressing and mirroring their deplorable creators.
Better explanation - Geordi La Forge was overprotective of his friend Data and he recorded the raw data during the transfer from Data to B4. Just before Data was destroyed ergo "late Data". I think that there would be a hundred even better explanations. To quote the classic "their heads empty, their hearts dark"
Yes, exactly. There are a MILLION better ways to work this out that would actually make sense within the universe. Data was plugged into the Enterprise computer enough times that there could be dozens of backup copies of him in the computer cores. Geordi was always tinkering with him, and of course the transfer to B4 could have left backups behind also, either deliberately or accidentally. They could go on some kind of adventure to find the original Enterprise computer cores to track down the memories -- something which might include tracking down the salvaged Enterprise itself, and that might actually be enjoyable for the fans. But NAHHHH... this has to be one big middle finger to fans and also make no sense whatsoever.
@@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg Some really good ideas here. Starfleet would probably have kept the Enterprise D's main computer in a lab due to all the wacky stuff that happened to it (assuming it survived with the saucer section in Generations). Things like the incident with the Bynars, the sentient Moriarty, Barclay merging with it, and the event of the episode "Emergence" to name but a few. In amongst all that, it's conceivable that Data's consciousness could survive there, and be restored in holographic form. Then you could give him a mobile emitter and recast him (sorry Brent).
I was complaining about this and someone honestly said "Are you a biologist?" To which I responded, "I'm a Computer Scientist and I don't need to be one to know the difference between an SSD and a neuron!"
It's like today's 1 TB hard disk maximum capacity is only 1 KB because the 1 KB is copyed 1 billion times on the hard disk. Dumbest hard disk concept ever. What is that? RAID-1000000000 Mode?
Let me tear off a piece of paper at its corner and clone its neutronapositropancake particles and *ding*, I just cloned my whole encyclopedia! This show is one facepalm after another... you need 20x the amount of subscribers...
I'll cut him some slack. Not in order: he's had his head severed *and* reattached 500 yrs later. Been infected by a half million year old CPU virus _twice_ (Iconia & Masaka). Been taken over by Wes' nanites and a 22nd century Starfleet ghost. And downloaded his deceased daughter's consciousness.
800 quadrillion bits is about 100 Peta bytes, which really is remarkable as it would make sense to have sentient like artificial lifeforms that would fit into this much memory and still have left enough to make memories for centuries to come. Of course this is not what Data was limited to till the end as he was and has redesigned and progressed his technology throughout the series. I really like this Pinocchio inspired character, as he developes really interesting character arcs, hits borders of his own limitations and also surprises again and again how his own flaws work for him being sometimes more human than some human themselves.
Aparently there's 2.5 quintillion bytes of data generated each day currently. You'd think 300 years in the future 100 Peta bytes would be akin to 1 MB of memory lol
@@1invag there was an episode of Knight Rider where they something like doubled KITT's memory by adding a 4 megabit (512KB) memory module, in the early 1980s that ammount of memory was considered science fiction, today my desktop computer has about 64,000,000 times that much memory, and about 20,000,000,000 that much storage. With the speed computer memory, storage (and most other things) increase, within the next 15-20 years petabytes of storage will be affordable , and in 30-40 years that ammount of computer memory should be plausable.
but the brain does not store data in binary way, and is not able to recall everything clearly and sharply. in fact we still find out information about how connections in the brain work, as it seems even the strength of the connection plays a role in the memory process, so we cannot even quantify the amount of data in there. 100 peta bytes is not enough storage for what data is saying. this was already part of debunks way before picard brought up the homeopathicly diluted memory cell.
The writers created a new measurement "gigaquad" because they knew the numbers being tossed around just weren't big enough. I think Ronald D Moore had something to do with it. Measure of a Man was season 2 and Ron didn't join until season 3.
In any other franchise some hothead would go "in ENGLISH, please??" Wow, genius writing. What a subtle way to give a simplified explanation to the audience.
I knew things were going to be rough when they used a throwaway line of positronic neurons to bring back Data. No mentions of Lore, Lal or Juliana Taynor. *sigh*
If anything it just goes to show that Star Trek has always relied on pseudo-science techno-babble. Dress up the dialogue with words that sound smart and hope the audience is just as clueless as the writers as to what any of it actually means. Heck, there's also a blatant scene of failure to even maintain internal consistence when we see ostensibly the same emotion chip installed in two entirely different compartments. Scientific accuracy has never really been the point of Star Trek, it's all just window dressing for telling stories.
This video inspired me to concoct a theory that positronic brains must have a giant working memory which slowly integrates into actual memory over a very long time, possibly days (for comparison, humans require only about 20 seconds). So "wiping memory processors" could mean deleting this working memory, discarding up to several days of memories (they did this after "refining his programming," possibly to prevent some kind of error?).
Our brains store data by strengthening/weakening the connections between neurons, not by modifying the neurons themselves. Synapses are also responsible for our ability to process abstract data in novel ways. Positronic brains can be imagined to be the same, with modifiable circuits altering the way inputs are processed. Therefore a positronic processor could be wiped, meaning all the synapses that were not hard-coded are reset. You can look into FPGAs for a real world analog: they can be programmed, with code effectively altering their logic circuits.
All this show did for me was make me feel embarrassed watching some of my favorite Star Trek actors trying to act their way through nonsense dialogue. I mean, Trek always had technobabble, but usually that was just used to enrich the feeling of immersion of a sci-fi world and not to retcon the plot for convenience with throwaway lines.
Even if they could rebuild his consciousness from one cell, where did they get it from? oh yeah Maddox had some sure. It bothers me they left him in the Computer instead of giving him a body and then Picard just agrees to kill him without thinking why he wanted to die, he'd been alone in a pc for years, I would want death too unless you could offer me an exit.
TNG: "Commander, what is the capacity of your memory?" "I have an ultimate storage capacity of 800 Quadrillion Bits." Picard: ""Commander, what is the capacity of your memory?" "I am very very smart. Huh ha."
he was imitating the behavior of humans . it could have been an interesting storyline if they actually did something with it. they introduce all kinds of things that could have been good but they dropped every single one of them so it's all pointless filler
@@MajorGrin i thought about it, and it would have made sense if he saw someone else smile before smiling himself. But he smiled without any external input, meaning he must have known that was a joke, don't you think?
@@RealHogweed We're not totally sure how long those units were in operation. I felt they portraying the day-to-day operations, this is the way it's been for a while, and the synths' programming allows them to pick up on little behaviors and mimic them so as to fit in. After a while, I imagine they're a bit better than Google's predictive text as figuring out what you most likely expect. Also. somewhere I saw something that implied Maddox sorta rushed them for mass production and they weren't ever meant to be as complete or "soul searching" as Data.
In just a minute my brother seems to have saved what could've been. Just have this mysterious Alton Soong reveal himself to be none other than Lore, and everything he's done up to this point has been a lie and deception.
800 Quadrillion Bits is 100 Petabytes. Last I knew, the estimated storage capacity for the Human Brain was about 4.5 Petabytes. That means Data's Memory Capacity is over 22 Times Greater then a Human... Far More Efficient too, as he has control over what is lost and what is kept. And the memory is always Crystal clear. No fragmentation.
Such a shame when so much effort is put in from all the other teams (acting, cinematography, production), only to be let down by the writers ignoring the established canon of the universe.
The copy&paste Starfleet was the last straw for me. The ships have been a big part of Star Trek since forever. People have been buying ship models in every form for years! Meanwhile I've seen absolutely nothing memorable about any of the STP ships. What does Rios' ship even look like? I couldn't even tell you, it's just generic looking and modern quick-cut editing makes it so we never get to see it for longer than 2.5 seconds at a time.
So, data's memory capacity is one hundred thousand terabytes in size. I love the fact that they did not make up some random name for large data sizes here and kept it to bits, it's future proofed the dialogue and at 100 thousand terabytes, it's far in excess of human capacity estimated at from 1 to 100 terabytes.
I'm hardly an expert but I've been playing around with my own neural network implementations and being able to recreate a network from a single neuron makes no sense. Neuron weights are trained over time and knowing the properties of a single neuron wouldn't help you deduce the rest. I know "positronic" neurons wouldn't necessarily work the same way as artificial digital neurons but it seems reasonable that the same basic framework of a network of unique neurons communicating with each other is there. If you can deduce the other neurons using a single one then why were there even other neurons at all?
Maybe a lone positronic neuron can be used to recover Data's memories, but cannot be used to reverse engineer a whole new positronic brain. For example, it takes about 20 seconds for humans to upload new information into our memory banks so we use a "working memory" in the meantime, maybe a positronic android is similar and cannot remember things effectively without such a mechanism.
....exactly! and whatever particles might have been left by it, they would have drifted away because of the momentum of the shockwave in just a few days.
I had forgotten that Lal's memories were saved in Data's mind. So when he backed up his memories in B4 he also backed up Lal's. Maybe if they didn't use B4 for his obvious purpose of bringing Data back to life, they could have hinted at that but had it be a red herring to actually using his backups to resurrect Lal as Soji or something. Instead of the positronic neuron just say they tried to bring back Data from B4 but it didn't work, but the big secret is that Lal lived on.
They changed later because the technology had evolved and created the "Quad" in season 6 of TNG (taken over by VOY), so we can imagine that Data would talk more about Quad (which would be more logical). The first two seasons had sometimes retcon to rectify this kind of things.
Your videos are awesome. You need to know that your videos and how you do them is very therapeutic to real star trek fans. It validates our anger and disappointment in how star trek has been treated. ..... The writers and producers have no respect for continuity lore or Canon caring for nothing other than pushing their personal political agendas and beliefs. Thanks for the videos, keep them coming. .... Rest in peace star trek. We will miss you
Headcanon: "Altan Inigo Soong" is an alias assumed by Lore, after Lore developed a sense of ethics. It's the only explanation for why: 1. Soong never had a biological son until "Star Trek: Picard", and why 2. If Soong _had_ had a biological son, his biological son should not have been _absolutely identical to him,_ both visually and in voice, and 3. Should have been much, _much_ older than he appears in "Star Trek: Picard." So why would "Altan Inigo Soong" have been constructing an organic synth "golem" body at all, then? Because it would have provided the perfect disguise-slash-"new start." As Lore, we saw what he tended to inflict on everybody he encountered. He probably had a _lot_ of enemies. Enemies who, he expected, would have tracked him down eventually. With a synthetic _organic_ body, he'd have passed for biological, and then? "Oh. Look at these readings, chums. That's not an android, that's not him."
This is why I never watched the new Picard Series, it was evident from the beginning it was going to be trash. No matter the technology you have a limit on information stored because of PHYSICS, it would be IMPOSSIBLE even in the year 1000000 to reconstruct more unique memory capacity than the object can maximally be capable of storing because of the constraints of matter itself. I don't consider Picard part of Star Trek.
800 quadrillion bits is 100 quadrillion bytes, which is 100 petabytes or 100,000 terabytes. This is actually a pretty realistic number if Data can store everything he sees 24 / 7. There are definitely systems today with that kind of storage capability, but it takes up several racks of server space. Back in 1989 when Measure of a Man aired it was an extremely unreachable amount of storage. At that time the largest HDD you could get, 340 MB, cost $1,795 dollars (in 1989 money), and it would require almost 300 million of those HDDs to store 100 petabytes.
They changed later because the technology had evolved and created the "Quad" in season 6 of TNG (taken over by VOY), so we can imagine that Data would talk more about Quad (which would be more logical). The first two seasons had sometimes retcon to rectify this kind of things.
800 quadrillion bits is equal to 100 petabytes. Data can hold the entire internet together if you count unique information without countless copies of it. According to estimates, the sum total of data held by all the big online storage and service companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Facebook is at least 1,200 petabytes.
I’m just gonna say that technology from the Discovery/SNW timeline found its way to the prime timeline in 2380 and altered the post nemesis future where nothing makes sense
I feel a memory of reading this exact post, not long ago, from some other thread a/o channel. If not from you, the opinion you have seems to exist as a reality other people hold as important.
One minute before that Data says they got the memories from B4. The whole neuron and engram thing is something else, likely the structure of those memories. That explains why they could rebuild a reasonable facsimile of Data's consciousness, because the memories or structure alone wouldn't have been enough and fits with B4 not becoming a Data clone, but also not becoming more complex like Data.
Given how technology has advanced in our lifetime over the past 30 years, especially once we started with IT, during the IT bubble 20 years ago, why is it hard to imagine that they couldn't have done the same in Star Trek? I mean, Picard takes place in 2399, 20 years after Data died and 35 years before the start of the show. The growth in the federation era would exponentially faster than in our time. And even Data pointed out that he thought Maddox was close, but not close enough to allow him to perform his experiment on himself at the time. Not to mention the knowledge Altan Soong brought with him (who was obviously retconed into existence). Noonien Soong made the Juliana Soong robot, which was even more advanced than Data, she even had the memories and personality of the real Juliana (exactly how "Golem Picard" now is..... The "real" Picard is dead, but Golem is a mental clone.).
Surprising that they slipped up and used current measurements there. Usually Trek would avoid that and use things like 'quads' to avoid having Data be no more advanced than a tablet 20 years later, for example. Granted 100,000TB is still a lot of information.
Could've easily been made way more plausible by instead of saying "a single neuron", they said the extrapolated his neural matrix from several clusters of neurons using holocomputing algorithms or some similar technobabble.
@Kent Arnold as many others have mentioned Data's memory was backed up into B4, but it didn't work out. All they had to do was say that the "data" (pun intended) was still there and after many years of research they were able to develop away retrieve it and getting a new data running. They could have also used this to explain away any inconsistencies with his character by saying some information was lost permanently.
Or just say that Starfleet had begun backing his memory up in incremental amounts through a rogue program that he could not detect. Throw in some Section 31 elements to make it more plausible. Geordi could then be introduced as an agent of S31 all along.
I could be wrong but for some reason thought he had his chip at end of nemesis. Like capt picard was like data you should turn off your emotion chip but I could be mixing up movies.
So... how did they get ANY of Data's Neurons... if he was in the middle of the Scimitar when it exploded, how did they get any remnant of his neurons? Did he leave his chip behind? Or are they saying they extrapolated what little was put into B4?
You missed a fundemental point. He has a positronic Brain, you know what that is. Think of the Chips as something that programs the positronic brain and helps it learn, along with potentially additonal information/storage. Also, might I suggest you look up something called halographic memory.
I had interpreted it as his memories being in positronic neural cells were not the main memory format of data but had been stored into the neural cells as an unforeseen consequence. I mean if his positronic neural cells were the main format for memory storage then why the hell was his emotion chip (which has memories within it) an isolinear chip and not a biomechanical fluid like that of Voyager's bio-neural gel pack based computer system?
Finally person how is in right ball park on this thread. Technically Data has a Positronic Brain. Now, if I recall you never actually see Datas positronic brain, but the outer parts that connect to it.
Why a flash drive is different from a hard drive? (I know, I know, SSD now is basicaly a flash memory, but still, there are different types of hard drives). My point - you can store the same data on different types of media. Isochip is just a flash drive for Data.
I had to do a google search on how much 800 quadrillion bits would equate to, which is 100 petabytes for anybody interested. 1 Petabyte is equal to 1024 Terabytes.
I'm surprised by how future proof his memory capacity was in TNG. As long as he only logs barebone data (only text, no images or sounds unless simple human readable data) his capacity of 100 000 TB should be enough to record most meaningful things that happened in his life.
i'm sure compression algorithms will be much better in the future as well, and only because he can remember every single moment of his life, doesn't mean that he decides to keep all of it forever. Lets say he keeps the last 10 years, mostly uncompressed, the next 20 years he compresses heavily and anything older than 30 years gets automatically curated and if deemed insignificant, deleted or transcripted into a text file... you don't need full video and audio recordings of an 8 hour night shift with 2 course corrections, a text file stating the time and details will do in the unlikely case that it may be relevant some day. Kinda like Ariem in STD was shown to selectively delete memories (in the one episode where we are suddenly expected to give a crap about this nothing background character), just as a way more advanced, automated and passive subconcious background process. Like Windows 10 does Defrag on an automated schedule while you are not on the keyboard, you never notice it, but it still happens (i know, not on SSD! blah...).
@@ZeroB4NG I seriously doubt compression algorithms will get any better, it's not something we can just discover, unless our whole computer science is rebuilt from the ground up with a completely different approach. I'm talking true science fiction here, like discovering new materials that conduct electricity more efficiently that also requires a different approach on the maths side. There is still room for hardware to progress, but as far as mathematics are concerned we've pretty much hit the ceiling. If anything, data will only get bigger ; as we improve the quality of our media we also have to expend on the amount of information to be processed, this takes place. "you don't need full video and audio recordings of an 8 hour night shift with 2 course corrections, a text file stating the time and details will do in the unlikely case that it may be relevant some day." Yes, this is what I was talking about when I said "simple human readable data" PS : no SSD here either. I didn't put my computers through the ordeal of dealing with win10 though.
Couple things; first we don't know if a bit or byte is the same in 300 years. Second; his data compression would be far superior. Third, the writers introduced the term "gigaquad" to avoid this kind of mess. I think around season 3, when Ronald D Moore joined the writing staff.
@@Paulafan5 Why/how would bits change? The whole logic behind them is to define a binary state (yes/no, activated/deactivated). As for data compression, then again, we'd need a whole new way to do maths to get any better, which is science fiction. Ironically, the pill would be easier to swallow if the show was throwing that quantum bullshit around like candies. Even then quantum physics measured using vectors, which are made of bits anyway. uwaterloo.ca/institute-for-quantum-computing/sites/ca.institute-for-quantum-computing/files/uploads/files/mathematics_qm_v21.pdf This is really pushing more towards the fiction part of science-fiction. If you want to elaborate more on why it's more fiction than science : www.ams.org/publicoutreach/feature-column/fcarc-quantum-one Bytes now, you do pretty much whatever you want with them, as long as it's no less than two bits.
So I have found a way to deal with Star Trek. Quantum Realities. We know from TNG they can be very similar yet slightly different. As such there are two Quantum Realities currently in Star Trek. There is the Rodenberry-Meyer Reality which contains everything before 2009. Then there is the Abrams-Kurtzman Reality which contains everything since 2009. In the Rodenberry-Meyer Reality there are two primary timelines. Pre and Post First Contact. ST:Enterprise exists in the post First Contact Timeline as does Insurrection and Nemesis While DS9 and Voyager exist both pre and post this event. Now what happens to voyager Pre First Contact after Season 3... I like to think the Borg are still a real threat and they all assimilated for being so dumb as to travelling through Borg space in an semi organic ship. That is a digression though. In the Abrams-Kurtzman Reality there are two timelines as well. There is their Prime timeline and the Kelvin Timeline. Discovery and Picard take place in the Prime Kelvin Timeline while the Abrams Movie takes place in the modified version of that. This separates both without the reboot word being used and solves all but the wtf Klingons that some idiot came up with for Discovery.
@@MonkeyJedi99 basically. It is a different reality where spock has a half sister who is human and Klingons aren't klingons and humans are evil psychopaths and section 31 operates totally out in the open.
it's so dumb that they have so much plausible existing things that they could have called on and expanded on. like B4/Lore/memory engrams and the emotion chip to explain datas memory hanging around, but they felt the need to try and be clever and invent something new and stupid for literally no reason. =P
Please fucking no. I get the joke but... We got enough issues in game design. Last thing we need is Kurtzman as some fucking software designer to give us more issues. I wouldnt fucking entrust Kurtzman as my freaking mailman. Just... give him a million dollars and put him on an island and keep him there where he can do no harm. Forever.
@@jamessalvatore7054 Don't worry, Kurtzman isn't the kind who'd actually *do* something. he's the guy bossing you around to do stupid unpractical shit that doesn't work and would you dare use your talents to actually make something that works, would fire you because he wasn't capable of coming up with it himself, then take credit for it. You know "that guy". We all know that one project manager.
@@jamessalvatore7054 He could work at Microsoft and cause them legal trouble because of the theft of code from open source projects. He always takes things from other people's work, as if it were his own. CBS has already been sued for stealing video game ideas, thanks to Kurtzman. He has a great potential in ruining big monopolies. Just trying to find something useful for him to do. Kurtzman the Destroyer.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe a "positronic neuron" is a thing. It's either a positron (positive charge) or a neuron (neutral charge). It can't be both. How can it have positive, neutral charge?
>800 Quadrillion bits Most of which (apparently) go to calculating things using the smallest fucking measurements... "hey data, can you come here a sec?" Of course, Geordi. I shall be there in approximately one quintillion attoseconds (there are one quintillion attoseconds in a second.).
This is like Cell growing back from one cell and retaining his every memory and ability. So essentially Star Trek Picard is copying Dragon ball Z. Even though DBZ manga explained it better
This is what happens when writers who don't watch or even like star trek are forced to write a script for people that have never seen star trek. They pepper in star trek references and cameos for the older viewers that have seen the original show, however it doesn't follow the existing lore. STTNG actually had consultants and such to make sure that the future tech they had, while fake, sorta made sense theoretically. Star Trek Picard obviously didn't. I am really tired of reboots/sequels that use the name of a big property but it's in name only and they get a show runner/director that just makes it their own thumbprint of whatever they want it to be about and not a continuation of the story. It's just vanity.
To a point your correct. But you made a simple falicy that everyone has made. You forgot Data has a Positronic Brain, and you forgot what a Positronic brain is.
@@primitivestudio1 Sorry, going to have to ask for some receipts here. Here's mine: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronic_brain I've read pretty much every Asimov book about robots with positronic brains...not to mention I've seen every episode of STTNG. Asimov is the author who came up with the idea...so unless there is something unique about positrons you can explain... like quantum entanglement or some such... Yea, you can't just say "you don't know what you are talking about" and leave it at that. I can say the same to you but at least I offered up a reason why you are the one who doesn't understand. You may understand some key factor here that I missed but you didn't offer it. It's tiresome that on the internet "you don't know what you are talking about" with no evidence or "reciepts" is such a common trope. It's a fallacy itself. What is this "you forget what a positronic brain is" business about anyway? I didn't even bring up that subject, but apparently it's something you considered bringing in to this topic and something you you feel you know a lot about, so feel free to enlighten me as to the part I forgot about. But you aren't are you? Is this some retort you are go about replying to any comment you dislike about Star Trek Picard? Is this the one thing you think people don't understand so that makes it a good comeback? The fact that you even say anyone that watched the show could "forget" that Data has a Positronic brain is utterly ridiculous anyway. They bring it up dozens if not hundreds of times. Data is constantly talking about his android status and there are numerous episodes about about his brain's workings specifically. But yea, I don't expect a reply. I know you don't have a response to this. You might come and tell me off though. That's what I'd expect actually. A civil reply explaining what I you think I missed with details and references would honestly shock me to my core.
I know that future compression algorithms may be better than what we have now but cut to hank hill saying "do I look like I know what a Jpeg is" data sitting in a corner babbling with a blurry voice to cover up the lack of information in his memories
Data has the memories of the colonists - this doesn't make them alive, so how can someone say Andro-Picard is alive if he consists of the memories of only one person
A scientist, who uploaded himself into Data, then uploaded himself into the ship's computer, but it was just 1's and 0's and his essence was lost. Picard's essence would be lost.
800 qudarillion bits may seem like a lot, but let's put that into perspective. That translates into 1000 Terabytes. we'll have hard drives that big long before the end of the century,
all they had to do was say that Data left his emotion chip on the Enterprise in the end of Nemesis , and we already know the chip can contain memories . so they could have used that to explain that Data's memories had a backup instead of the "single neuron" b.s .
this was a problem in Nemesis as well because by saying he copied his brain to B4 early in the movie made the ending very predictable. so I'm actually glad they didn't resurrect Data inside of B4 since that was too obvious and predictable . but they could have said they restored his consciousness from the emotion chip instead of the single neuron line .
Soji should have had the consciousness of Lal which was stored inside Data.
also Lore should have popped up as a villain since he was only dismantled and not destroyed but the writers totally forgot about him.
and the story should have ended with Data becoming organic , fulfilling his life long ambition to be human , and stay on the planet of Androids as their leader to help educate them so that they don't become like Lore
and you should be considered and hired as script/story consultant at every future Star Trek show.
they cant restore his conciousness though. he's dead.
if they could restore him from his emotion chip or from the data in b4 then whatever they create from that is not data. because they could do all that while data is still alive, his conciousness would still be in data, not in a copy of his. same with picard. theyre both now dead.
@@ge2719 technically whenever they were transported they died and them a copy of them is created
Graeme Evans It’s more convoluted than that. As Major G says, you could wonder whether anyone is “real” after a transport, (making the movie The Prestige a Trek transporter story...). But then you have the question of whether a person can be genuinely copied, much less transferred from a body to another body, or even a machine. When Riker became 2 people, we are to find them fairly equivalent, not one soulless and the other genuine. However if you can reduce what Data would call his “self” into information, (a much more reasonable proposition than tackling the cosmic nature of an organic being’s possible “soul”), then there may be no meaningful distinction between 2 Datas, and no reason to discern different levels of authenticity.
I’d ask: is there anything of substance which we cannot measure, a “soul”? Do all beings posses this quality? Do artificial beings have the capacity to have such a thing? Where does it reside? Can it be transferred, copied,divided, or altered? Does a person lose themselves in becoming non organic? Can an artificial intelligence lose inherent value by transferring from one shell to another, or even becoming organic?
Robot to robot, AI to AI, seems like the most plausible way to maintain value and substance.
Like most things in this show, the cloning positrons BS was just a means to an end. In this case, giving Picard a valid reason to go galavanting around the galaxy chasing a synth. Sadly, no more thought went into the details than that. Even poor writers would at least attempt to make something halfway plausible, but not here. It was simply a case of them deciding "That will do".
Well.... that didn't do, along with most of the other boneheaded contrivances they came up with.
What she's saying is like "I can recreate the whole wikipedia from one letter."
It's like you can extract an entire catalogue of music using a knackered old speaker.
Well not really. You have to understand vwhat a fractal is. Basically the information is the same small as it is big. So if there was a neuron that had fractal information, it would still be there. Look up fractals and chaos theory. That's what they were going for.
JuseBeats Kurtzman is that you?
@@TheRealJuseBeats memory, especially neuron based memory, does not work on fractal pattern. Each memory triggers different pattern of neurons, And the pattern is different for every brain for the same memory. We can play the same song in our head but the neuron pattern will be totally different.
So no
I don't think I've downloaded enough RAM.
A better question is how the writers' memory works in Star Trek Picard, because it clearly doesn't.
their brains only have 1 functioning neuron
@@MajorGrin Dang! No clones of those writers then... Oh wait- nah, we're good.
Their memory is fine (maybe), they just cannot remember what they've never seen.
they wanted to make a Game of Thrones out of Star Trek! they dont care about lore at any time they lied to us.
@Paul brilliant!
Out of all the creepy things Lore did, flipping back his fingernail is the creepiest.
every time I see that I get tingles and I swear I can feel it in my finger lol
Omg yes
That affected me when I was a kid. I was bothered for days.
What a horrible storage bin
We've lost two epic franchises( Star Wars and Star Trek ) to producers and directors that don't want to respect source material or the fans that want to preserve it. So painful!
I mean what makes it worse is Hollywood let the same man destroy both.
Thankfully Star Wars television is in the good hands of Dave Filoni. If only Star Trek had its own Filoni.
@@Decipher13 Best we have is Seath McFarlen knocking it out of the park with The Orville.
@@Decipher13 while filoni is better than disney, he still messed up star wars heavily with tcw, lots of stuff was changed or forgotten with that show
Dr Who and Terminator are gone too. Killed by the same means. The people in charge now clearly didn't actually watch the show and terminator appears to have been heavily influenced by other peoples view of what the francaise "should" be. With James Cameron it was thought he would save and bring back his vision. But instead it just threw another pile of shit in the mix
New Dr. Who writer Chris Chibnal is literally Whos version of Kurtzman. Throwing the legacy, story, respect and cultural influence of an almost 60 year old show out the window for what they see as outdated dribble. Chris Chibnal literally appeared once on a tv show in the 90s saying how he though Dr Who was crap and he would change things to suit how he thought it should be (some kids questionnaire show I dunno)
Granted when the show got the reboot it was a new writing staff but it was written by fans (I.e the legend of the franchise Russel T Davies) they were fans who have followed along the shows progression since it started in the 60s (or maybe jumped on in the 70s who knows). Basically Dr who got the kind of writer for the reboot star trek fans truly wanted. The show was lucky for that fact in 2005. But now the New new writer has come in and torn it all down. Done a full 180 degree turn and nobody is allowed to complain about it for the same reasons you're not allowed to think Discovery is bad. The times we live in basically
Graduates of Kurtzman University can confirm that if you take a single human heart cell, and clone it, you will get a new human with all the memories of the original.
WRO I think a closer analogy would be if you took a single brain neuron, and heck, I’ll be generous and say a neuron cluster from someone’s brain and then say: clone it and we will get a new human with some of the same memories.
Regardless, it’s stupid on face value.
@@Icearchon clone a single bit from my hard drive and you'll get my whole computer including the bread crumbs in the keyboard
If you cloned Kurtzman's entire DNA, you'd only end up with an arsehole.
Michael Chabon probably thought up the single neuron bullshit and Kurtzman just said "very cool" "very cool" "We'll go with that" Fukin noobs..
Now you're getting into Dune Ghola shit right there.
Geordi and Data’s friendship was my favorite relationship on TNG.
"The content of their logs and journals were transferred into my memory cells"
I bet that Kurtzman saw that and thought that "memory cells" to an android computer are akin to the brain neuron cells... just like a cell phone is a phone that uses a human eardrum cell, a fuel cell is a biological cell that is fuel tank, a solar cell is a cell shaped like the sun, the cello is a cell made of Jell-o and a prison cell is a tiny microscopic prison.
The cello had me lol.
A microscopic prison, lol.
except that would mean he actually watched an episode of TNG. I bet he just had an assistant make some notes about the show.
Best comment by far !
"I bet that Kurtzman saw that "
Bold of you.
If current writers had seen any TNG episodes maybe just MAYBE continuity could actually be maintained! What a crazy thought.
Nah, the goal was to offend the fans, so continuity wasn't an issue.
it would also depend on which episode
@@beayn Expecting Continuity is a form of privilege. We need more Pew Pew Pew.
I don't even care about continuity. This show is just generally bad with or without it.
You’ll find the only thing continuity about Star Trek, is the un-continuity of Star Trek.
Data copied himself onto B4. Sure, it didn't "take" but as far as raw data goes it should all be there. Why couldn't they just use that method? It's all right there.
That would require knowledge of TNG. A fair portion of Data was uploaded to B4, but not everything. Piecing it together from 50% of Data isn't that far fetched. Reconstructing Data from 1 bit of information is silly.
hell here is a better theory data convinced B4 to wear his body and sacrifice himself on the thelorn device mean while datas head was on b4
Because we are talking about positronic brain duh
if you take a single cell from a classic series, like the name, you can create a whole series of "descendants" that bear no resemblance to the original. Where as the original was intelligent and progressive, these descendants could be mean, depressing and mirroring their deplorable creators.
New Trek seems a lot like a real life version of "All Good Things". An anomaly is created that retroactively tries to destroy something good.
Nice
If only we were all dreaming this terrible nightmare
Simply don't watch it!
As Inception was teaching us, there is no true reality in fiction. Our reality in a fictional word is what we choose it to be.
Go hug your Spock plushie. It will all be ok.
There is only FOUR series!
Entertainment sucks now.
Better explanation - Geordi La Forge was overprotective of his friend Data and he recorded the raw data during the transfer from Data to B4. Just before Data was destroyed ergo "late Data". I think that there would be a hundred even better explanations. To quote the classic "their heads empty, their hearts dark"
Kurtzman: La Farge? Is he that blind guy who wears the headband on his face?
Yes, exactly. There are a MILLION better ways to work this out that would actually make sense within the universe. Data was plugged into the Enterprise computer enough times that there could be dozens of backup copies of him in the computer cores. Geordi was always tinkering with him, and of course the transfer to B4 could have left backups behind also, either deliberately or accidentally. They could go on some kind of adventure to find the original Enterprise computer cores to track down the memories -- something which might include tracking down the salvaged Enterprise itself, and that might actually be enjoyable for the fans. But NAHHHH... this has to be one big middle finger to fans and also make no sense whatsoever.
@@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg Some really good ideas here. Starfleet would probably have kept the Enterprise D's main computer in a lab due to all the wacky stuff that happened to it (assuming it survived with the saucer section in Generations). Things like the incident with the Bynars, the sentient Moriarty, Barclay merging with it, and the event of the episode "Emergence" to name but a few. In amongst all that, it's conceivable that Data's consciousness could survive there, and be restored in holographic form. Then you could give him a mobile emitter and recast him (sorry Brent).
That would be better, though would a 23rd century external hard drive have enough space/memory for that?
Their knees weak, their arms heavy
I was complaining about this and someone honestly said "Are you a biologist?" To which I responded, "I'm a Computer Scientist and I don't need to be one to know the difference between an SSD and a neuron!"
“Positronic neuron” my god
"heisenberg compensator"
Homeopathic Data.
Ah, yes. The water of memory, delicious.
@@brian_sipe nice
It's like today's 1 TB hard disk maximum capacity is only 1 KB because the 1 KB is copyed 1 billion times on the hard disk.
Dumbest hard disk concept ever. What is that? RAID-1000000000 Mode?
No... its connected to the cloud ... an apple cloud
Let me tear off a piece of paper at its corner and clone its neutronapositropancake particles and *ding*, I just cloned my whole encyclopedia! This show is one facepalm after another... you need 20x the amount of subscribers...
I'll cut him some slack. Not in order: he's had his head severed *and* reattached 500 yrs later. Been infected by a half million year old CPU virus _twice_ (Iconia & Masaka). Been taken over by Wes' nanites and a 22nd century Starfleet ghost. And downloaded his deceased daughter's consciousness.
800 quadrillion bits is about 100 Peta bytes, which really is remarkable as it would make sense to have sentient like artificial lifeforms that would fit into this much memory and still have left enough to make memories for centuries to come.
Of course this is not what Data was limited to till the end as he was and has redesigned and progressed his technology throughout the series.
I really like this Pinocchio inspired character, as he developes really interesting character arcs, hits borders of his own limitations and also surprises again and again how his own flaws work for him being sometimes more human than some human themselves.
Aparently there's 2.5 quintillion bytes of data generated each day currently. You'd think 300 years in the future 100 Peta bytes would be akin to 1 MB of memory lol
@@1invag
I mean. Its 50x the theoretical capacity of the brain. And far more efficient at storing that data.
More than that's just overkill.
@@1invag there was an episode of Knight Rider where they something like doubled KITT's memory by adding a 4 megabit (512KB) memory module, in the early 1980s that ammount of memory was considered science fiction, today my desktop computer has about 64,000,000 times that much memory, and about 20,000,000,000 that much storage.
With the speed computer memory, storage (and most other things) increase, within the next 15-20 years petabytes of storage will be affordable , and in 30-40 years that ammount of computer memory should be plausable.
but the brain does not store data in binary way, and is not able to recall everything clearly and sharply. in fact we still find out information about how connections in the brain work, as it seems even the strength of the connection plays a role in the memory process, so we cannot even quantify the amount of data in there. 100 peta bytes is not enough storage for what data is saying. this was already part of debunks way before picard brought up the homeopathicly diluted memory cell.
The writers created a new measurement "gigaquad" because they knew the numbers being tossed around just weren't big enough. I think Ronald D Moore had something to do with it. Measure of a Man was season 2 and Ron didn't join until season 3.
Let's be honest, Star Trek Picard is probably one of Picard's irumodic syndrome induced delusions.
In any other franchise some hothead would go "in ENGLISH, please??" Wow, genius writing. What a subtle way to give a simplified explanation to the audience.
I knew things were going to be rough when they used a throwaway line of positronic neurons to bring back Data. No mentions of Lore, Lal or Juliana Taynor. *sigh*
I cannot help what the writers do with me.
1:02 "we wiped your processors" - err, what? Processors have nothing to do with memory storage.
If anything it just goes to show that Star Trek has always relied on pseudo-science techno-babble. Dress up the dialogue with words that sound smart and hope the audience is just as clueless as the writers as to what any of it actually means. Heck, there's also a blatant scene of failure to even maintain internal consistence when we see ostensibly the same emotion chip installed in two entirely different compartments.
Scientific accuracy has never really been the point of Star Trek, it's all just window dressing for telling stories.
Processors do have Cache. It's still extremely silly though.
they do in a positronic brain ....apparently.
This video inspired me to concoct a theory that positronic brains must have a giant working memory which slowly integrates into actual memory over a very long time, possibly days (for comparison, humans require only about 20 seconds). So "wiping memory processors" could mean deleting this working memory, discarding up to several days of memories (they did this after "refining his programming," possibly to prevent some kind of error?).
Our brains store data by strengthening/weakening the connections between neurons, not by modifying the neurons themselves. Synapses are also responsible for our ability to process abstract data in novel ways.
Positronic brains can be imagined to be the same, with modifiable circuits altering the way inputs are processed. Therefore a positronic processor could be wiped, meaning all the synapses that were not hard-coded are reset.
You can look into FPGAs for a real world analog: they can be programmed, with code effectively altering their logic circuits.
All this show did for me was make me feel embarrassed watching some of my favorite Star Trek actors trying to act their way through nonsense dialogue. I mean, Trek always had technobabble, but usually that was just used to enrich the feeling of immersion of a sci-fi world and not to retcon the plot for convenience with throwaway lines.
"A new organic-synthetic" uh huh
Most importantly, they will never be able to touch my memories of Data
"I appear to be missing several memory engrams..." *Jordie holds out a handful of poker chips* "Ah. There they are."
Even if they could rebuild his consciousness from one cell, where did they get it from? oh yeah Maddox had some sure. It bothers me they left him in the Computer instead of giving him a body and then Picard just agrees to kill him without thinking why he wanted to die, he'd been alone in a pc for years, I would want death too unless you could offer me an exit.
TNG: "Commander, what is the capacity of your memory?" "I have an ultimate storage capacity of 800 Quadrillion Bits." Picard: ""Commander, what is the capacity of your memory?" "I am very very smart. Huh ha."
About humor, the sinth on mars can't grasp it, but he smiles after a joke, then denies having gotten it.
he was imitating the behavior of humans . it could have been an interesting storyline if they actually did something with it. they introduce all kinds of things that could have been good but they dropped every single one of them so it's all pointless filler
@@MajorGrin i thought about it, and it would have made sense if he saw someone else smile before smiling himself. But he smiled without any external input, meaning he must have known that was a joke, don't you think?
@@RealHogweed he realized it was a joke and knew he's supposed to smile at it , but didn't really understand the joke or why its funny
@@RealHogweed I haven't seen the show. Did anyone explain to the synth that what he was just told was a joke before, or after he smiled?
@@RealHogweed We're not totally sure how long those units were in operation. I felt they portraying the day-to-day operations, this is the way it's been for a while, and the synths' programming allows them to pick up on little behaviors and mimic them so as to fit in. After a while, I imagine they're a bit better than Google's predictive text as figuring out what you most likely expect. Also. somewhere I saw something that implied Maddox sorta rushed them for mass production and they weren't ever meant to be as complete or "soul searching" as Data.
In just a minute my brother seems to have saved what could've been. Just have this mysterious Alton Soong reveal himself to be none other than Lore, and everything he's done up to this point has been a lie and deception.
800 Quadrillion Bits is 100 Petabytes. Last I knew, the estimated storage capacity for the Human Brain was about 4.5 Petabytes. That means Data's Memory Capacity is over 22 Times Greater then a Human... Far More Efficient too, as he has control over what is lost and what is kept. And the memory is always Crystal clear. No fragmentation.
@@cataclystp I didn't. The article I read that from did. And it was only an Estimate. Last, how do you know you can't do that??
My kind of Android :)
Let's just agree that Picard is a stupid an dumb tv show and is not part of star trek canon.
Anything made by the new ST team is a dumb tv show that isn't a part of Star Trek canon.
Agreed, engage!
As far as I am concerned, anything that happened after Nemesis is just fanfiction.
Such a shame when so much effort is put in from all the other teams (acting, cinematography, production), only to be let down by the writers ignoring the established canon of the universe.
The copy&paste Starfleet was the last straw for me. The ships have been a big part of Star Trek since forever. People have been buying ship models in every form for years! Meanwhile I've seen absolutely nothing memorable about any of the STP ships. What does Rios' ship even look like? I couldn't even tell you, it's just generic looking and modern quick-cut editing makes it so we never get to see it for longer than 2.5 seconds at a time.
I can replicate a whole pizza from one pepperoni
So, data's memory capacity is one hundred thousand terabytes in size. I love the fact that they did not make up some random name for large data sizes here and kept it to bits, it's future proofed the dialogue and at 100 thousand terabytes, it's far in excess of human capacity estimated at from 1 to 100 terabytes.
Not to mention whatever kind of crazy compression that has been devised by that time.
I'm hardly an expert but I've been playing around with my own neural network implementations and being able to recreate a network from a single neuron makes no sense. Neuron weights are trained over time and knowing the properties of a single neuron wouldn't help you deduce the rest. I know "positronic" neurons wouldn't necessarily work the same way as artificial digital neurons but it seems reasonable that the same basic framework of a network of unique neurons communicating with each other is there. If you can deduce the other neurons using a single one then why were there even other neurons at all?
Because the show is written by idiots.
Maybe a lone positronic neuron can be used to recover Data's memories, but cannot be used to reverse engineer a whole new positronic brain. For example, it takes about 20 seconds for humans to upload new information into our memory banks so we use a "working memory" in the meantime, maybe a positronic android is similar and cannot remember things effectively without such a mechanism.
How did Maddox salvage a positronic neuron anyway? Data was blown to BITS when the Scimitar exploded.
....exactly!
and whatever particles might have been left by it, they would have drifted away because of the momentum of the shockwave in just a few days.
@@ZeroB4NG But we know now from TLJ that stuff without fuel in space gets slower!!1! You can just go there years later and pick the neurons! xD
Because.....plot.
800 quadrillion bits
The last quote sums it up nicely.
I had forgotten that Lal's memories were saved in Data's mind. So when he backed up his memories in B4 he also backed up Lal's. Maybe if they didn't use B4 for his obvious purpose of bringing Data back to life, they could have hinted at that but had it be a red herring to actually using his backups to resurrect Lal as Soji or something. Instead of the positronic neuron just say they tried to bring back Data from B4 but it didn't work, but the big secret is that Lal lived on.
They changed later because the technology had evolved and created the "Quad" in season 6 of TNG (taken over by VOY), so we can imagine that Data would talk more about Quad (which would be more logical). The first two seasons had sometimes retcon to rectify this kind of things.
Your videos are awesome. You need to know that your videos and how you do them is very therapeutic to real star trek fans. It validates our anger and disappointment in how star trek has been treated.
.....
The writers and producers have no respect for continuity lore or Canon caring for nothing other than pushing their personal political agendas and beliefs.
Thanks for the videos, keep them coming.
....
Rest in peace star trek. We will miss you
Headcanon: "Altan Inigo Soong" is an alias assumed by Lore, after Lore developed a sense of ethics. It's the only explanation for why:
1. Soong never had a biological son until "Star Trek: Picard", and why
2. If Soong _had_ had a biological son, his biological son should not have been _absolutely identical to him,_ both visually and in voice, and
3. Should have been much, _much_ older than he appears in "Star Trek: Picard."
So why would "Altan Inigo Soong" have been constructing an organic synth "golem" body at all, then?
Because it would have provided the perfect disguise-slash-"new start." As Lore, we saw what he tended to inflict on everybody he encountered. He probably had a _lot_ of enemies. Enemies who, he expected, would have tracked him down eventually. With a synthetic _organic_ body, he'd have passed for biological, and then?
"Oh. Look at these readings, chums. That's not an android, that's not him."
Oh Alex... Thanks, we really needed your genius on this one.
This is why I never watched the new Picard Series, it was evident from the beginning it was going to be trash. No matter the technology you have a limit on information stored because of PHYSICS, it would be IMPOSSIBLE even in the year 1000000 to reconstruct more unique memory capacity than the object can maximally be capable of storing because of the constraints of matter itself. I don't consider Picard part of Star Trek.
Ah, yes that beard the producers didn’t like.
so, Data's memory capacity is 89 Petabytes, you would think it would be larger than that considering TNG takes place 300 years from now
By 2037 a 100 petabyte hard drive will cost $50.
@@starseed96 100 terabyte maybe. Even then probably not.
@@starseed96 I'm just leaving a comment here to come back to in 2037
Any way to get the episode list of scenes? Great work! The writers obviously haven't watched enough TNG or perform basic research on his ports!
800 quadrillion bits is 100 quadrillion bytes, which is 100 petabytes or 100,000 terabytes. This is actually a pretty realistic number if Data can store everything he sees 24 / 7. There are definitely systems today with that kind of storage capability, but it takes up several racks of server space. Back in 1989 when Measure of a Man aired it was an extremely unreachable amount of storage. At that time the largest HDD you could get, 340 MB, cost $1,795 dollars (in 1989 money), and it would require almost 300 million of those HDDs to store 100 petabytes.
They changed later because the technology had evolved and created the "Quad" in season 6 of TNG (taken over by VOY), so we can imagine that Data would talk more about Quad (which would be more logical). The first two seasons had sometimes retcon to rectify this kind of things.
800 quadrillion bits is equal to 100 petabytes. Data can hold the entire internet together if you count unique information without countless copies of it. According to estimates, the sum total of data held by all the big online storage and service companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Facebook is at least 1,200 petabytes.
I’m just gonna say that technology from the Discovery/SNW timeline found its way to the prime timeline in 2380 and altered the post nemesis future where nothing makes sense
I feel a memory of reading this exact post, not long ago,
from some other thread a/o channel.
If not from you, the opinion you have seems to exist as
a reality other people hold as important.
They want us to remove our emotion chips.
And thinking, any thinking.
00:02 "Why is he telling me all that. I know that already. That's the whole point."
One minute before that Data says they got the memories from B4. The whole neuron and engram thing is something else, likely the structure of those memories.
That explains why they could rebuild a reasonable facsimile of Data's consciousness, because the memories or structure alone wouldn't have been enough and fits with B4 not becoming a Data clone, but also not becoming more complex like Data.
Picard's age shows notice the dent in the middle of the thumb print of his right thumb . 3:52
"800 quadrillion bits"
AMATEUR
How much space in memoryis 800 quadrillion bits? (is that 1,000,000+ TB?)
100,000 terabytes or 100 petabytes
lol 3:35, for some reason I thought of Dr. Hannibal Lecter ;D
I'm waiting for Picard being atomized by Me Plinkett in his review.
Damn. No wonder data is so smart. Check out all that RGB!
Given how technology has advanced in our lifetime over the past 30 years, especially once we started with IT, during the IT bubble 20 years ago, why is it hard to imagine that they couldn't have done the same in Star Trek? I mean, Picard takes place in 2399, 20 years after Data died and 35 years before the start of the show. The growth in the federation era would exponentially faster than in our time.
And even Data pointed out that he thought Maddox was close, but not close enough to allow him to perform his experiment on himself at the time. Not to mention the knowledge Altan Soong brought with him (who was obviously retconed into existence). Noonien Soong made the Juliana Soong robot, which was even more advanced than Data, she even had the memories and personality of the real Juliana (exactly how "Golem Picard" now is..... The "real" Picard is dead, but Golem is a mental clone.).
The emotion chip seem to be 4:29 growing. Went from tiny enough to hold it with tweezers to the size of dice.
Surprising that they slipped up and used current measurements there. Usually Trek would avoid that and use things like 'quads' to avoid having Data be no more advanced than a tablet 20 years later, for example. Granted 100,000TB is still a lot of information.
Anyone else always thought the chip -on a piece of cotton thread- in an anti-gravity field wobbles about too much?
Isn't 800 quadrillion bits or 100 petabytes a bit low for DATA's memory ?
The show was written 30 years ago!
Could the emotion chip be hidden in the painting titled "Daughter"?. 3:57
Could've easily been made way more plausible by instead of saying "a single neuron", they said the extrapolated his neural matrix from several clusters of neurons using holocomputing algorithms or some similar technobabble.
@Kent Arnold as many others have mentioned Data's memory was backed up into B4, but it didn't work out. All they had to do was say that the "data" (pun intended) was still there and after many years of research they were able to develop away retrieve it and getting a new data running. They could have also used this to explain away any inconsistencies with his character by saying some information was lost permanently.
Or just say that Starfleet had begun backing his memory up in incremental amounts through a rogue program that he could not detect. Throw in some Section 31 elements to make it more plausible. Geordi could then be introduced as an agent of S31 all along.
"We can create an entire new brain just from a single sperm."
"Eww! Patriarchy!"
I could be wrong but for some reason thought he had his chip at end of nemesis. Like capt picard was like data you should turn off your emotion chip but I could be mixing up movies.
It's real simple. Star Trek Picard writers don't like Star Trek, or Captain Picard.
It's like having Michael More do the sequel to Top Gun.
Which episode is the clip of Data and Geordi walking together come from?
It is like building whole being from a single cell with a dna info. Sounds about right
So... how did they get ANY of Data's Neurons... if he was in the middle of the Scimitar when it exploded, how did they get any remnant of his neurons? Did he leave his chip behind? Or are they saying they extrapolated what little was put into B4?
You missed a fundemental point. He has a positronic Brain, you know what that is. Think of the Chips as something that programs the positronic brain and helps it learn, along with potentially additonal information/storage. Also, might I suggest you look up something called halographic memory.
I had interpreted it as his memories being in positronic neural cells were not the main memory format of data but had been stored into the neural cells as an unforeseen consequence. I mean if his positronic neural cells were the main format for memory storage then why the hell was his emotion chip (which has memories within it) an isolinear chip and not a biomechanical fluid like that of Voyager's bio-neural gel pack based computer system?
Finally person how is in right ball park on this thread. Technically Data has a Positronic Brain. Now, if I recall you never actually see Datas positronic brain, but the outer parts that connect to it.
Why a flash drive is different from a hard drive? (I know, I know, SSD now is basicaly a flash memory, but still, there are different types of hard drives).
My point - you can store the same data on different types of media. Isochip is just a flash drive for Data.
I had to do a google search on how much 800 quadrillion bits would equate to, which is 100 petabytes for anybody interested. 1 Petabyte is equal to 1024 Terabytes.
PICARD IS A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE FROM THE NEXT GEN!!!
800 quadrillion bits huh? So Data has 100,000 Terabytes of storage. Well that sure puts my 5 TB drive to shame XD
I'm surprised by how future proof his memory capacity was in TNG. As long as he only logs barebone data (only text, no images or sounds unless simple human readable data) his capacity of 100 000 TB should be enough to record most meaningful things that happened in his life.
i'm sure compression algorithms will be much better in the future as well, and only because he can remember every single moment of his life, doesn't mean that he decides to keep all of it forever. Lets say he keeps the last 10 years, mostly uncompressed, the next 20 years he compresses heavily and anything older than 30 years gets automatically curated and if deemed insignificant, deleted or transcripted into a text file... you don't need full video and audio recordings of an 8 hour night shift with 2 course corrections, a text file stating the time and details will do in the unlikely case that it may be relevant some day.
Kinda like Ariem in STD was shown to selectively delete memories (in the one episode where we are suddenly expected to give a crap about this nothing background character), just as a way more advanced, automated and passive subconcious background process. Like Windows 10 does Defrag on an automated schedule while you are not on the keyboard, you never notice it, but it still happens (i know, not on SSD! blah...).
@@ZeroB4NG I seriously doubt compression algorithms will get any better, it's not something we can just discover, unless our whole computer science is rebuilt from the ground up with a completely different approach. I'm talking true science fiction here, like discovering new materials that conduct electricity more efficiently that also requires a different approach on the maths side. There is still room for hardware to progress, but as far as mathematics are concerned we've pretty much hit the ceiling.
If anything, data will only get bigger ; as we improve the quality of our media we also have to expend on the amount of information to be processed, this takes place.
"you don't need full video and audio recordings of an 8 hour night shift with 2 course corrections, a text file stating the time and details will do in the unlikely case that it may be relevant some day."
Yes, this is what I was talking about when I said "simple human readable data"
PS : no SSD here either. I didn't put my computers through the ordeal of dealing with win10 though.
Couple things; first we don't know if a bit or byte is the same in 300 years. Second; his data compression would be far superior. Third, the writers introduced the term "gigaquad" to avoid this kind of mess. I think around season 3, when Ronald D Moore joined the writing staff.
@@Paulafan5 Why/how would bits change? The whole logic behind them is to define a binary state (yes/no, activated/deactivated). As for data compression, then again, we'd need a whole new way to do maths to get any better, which is science fiction. Ironically, the pill would be easier to swallow if the show was throwing that quantum bullshit around like candies. Even then quantum physics measured using vectors, which are made of bits anyway.
uwaterloo.ca/institute-for-quantum-computing/sites/ca.institute-for-quantum-computing/files/uploads/files/mathematics_qm_v21.pdf
This is really pushing more towards the fiction part of science-fiction. If you want to elaborate more on why it's more fiction than science : www.ams.org/publicoutreach/feature-column/fcarc-quantum-one
Bytes now, you do pretty much whatever you want with them, as long as it's no less than two bits.
Does Data require a Torx screwdriver?
Fun fact: 800 quadrillion bits is about 88.8 petabytes, or ~90,950 terabytes
Are Data's eyes a brighter yellow in Picard or is it me?
So I have found a way to deal with Star Trek.
Quantum Realities. We know from TNG they can be very similar yet slightly different.
As such there are two Quantum Realities currently in Star Trek.
There is the Rodenberry-Meyer Reality which contains everything before 2009. Then there is the Abrams-Kurtzman Reality which contains everything since 2009.
In the Rodenberry-Meyer Reality there are two primary timelines. Pre and Post First Contact. ST:Enterprise exists in the post First Contact Timeline as does Insurrection and Nemesis While DS9 and Voyager exist both pre and post this event. Now what happens to voyager Pre First Contact after Season 3... I like to think the Borg are still a real threat and they all assimilated for being so dumb as to travelling through Borg space in an semi organic ship. That is a digression though.
In the Abrams-Kurtzman Reality there are two timelines as well. There is their Prime timeline and the Kelvin Timeline. Discovery and Picard take place in the Prime Kelvin Timeline while the Abrams Movie takes place in the modified version of that.
This separates both without the reboot word being used and solves all but the wtf Klingons that some idiot came up with for Discovery.
And in the new quantum realities, nobody can write good Trek?
@@MonkeyJedi99 basically. It is a different reality where spock has a half sister who is human and Klingons aren't klingons and humans are evil psychopaths and section 31 operates totally out in the open.
it's so dumb that they have so much plausible existing things that they could have called on and expanded on. like B4/Lore/memory engrams and the emotion chip to explain datas memory hanging around, but they felt the need to try and be clever and invent something new and stupid for literally no reason. =P
Learn to code, Mr. Alex Kurtzman. 😂
Please fucking no. I get the joke but... We got enough issues in game design. Last thing we need is Kurtzman as some fucking software designer to give us more issues. I wouldnt fucking entrust Kurtzman as my freaking mailman. Just... give him a million dollars and put him on an island and keep him there where he can do no harm. Forever.
@@jamessalvatore7054 Don't worry, Kurtzman isn't the kind who'd actually *do* something. he's the guy bossing you around to do stupid unpractical shit that doesn't work and would you dare use your talents to actually make something that works, would fire you because he wasn't capable of coming up with it himself, then take credit for it.
You know "that guy". We all know that one project manager.
@@jamessalvatore7054 He could work at Microsoft and cause them legal trouble because of the theft of code from open source projects. He always takes things from other people's work, as if it were his own. CBS has already been sued for stealing video game ideas, thanks to Kurtzman. He has a great potential in ruining big monopolies. Just trying to find something useful for him to do. Kurtzman the Destroyer.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe a "positronic neuron" is a thing. It's either a positron (positive charge) or a neuron (neutral charge). It can't be both. How can it have positive, neutral charge?
A neuron is a cell in the nervous system. It's not a neutron.
@@sadmagicalsenpai3728 Yes, you're right. I figured I was missing something.
Let me tell you a story about a man named Alex Kurtzman, LOL
>800 Quadrillion bits
Most of which (apparently) go to calculating things using the smallest fucking measurements...
"hey data, can you come here a sec?"
Of course, Geordi. I shall be there in approximately one quintillion attoseconds (there are one quintillion attoseconds in a second.).
This is like Cell growing back from one cell and retaining his every memory and ability. So essentially Star Trek Picard is copying Dragon ball Z.
Even though DBZ manga explained it better
".... ah there they are..." LOL
Wow, and during all this time, the Romulans were planning to destroy him, I guess.
nothing Goes Over my head, Im to fast , id Reach up and Grab it !
This is what happens when writers who don't watch or even like star trek are forced to write a script for people that have never seen star trek. They pepper in star trek references and cameos for the older viewers that have seen the original show, however it doesn't follow the existing lore. STTNG actually had consultants and such to make sure that the future tech they had, while fake, sorta made sense theoretically. Star Trek Picard obviously didn't. I am really tired of reboots/sequels that use the name of a big property but it's in name only and they get a show runner/director that just makes it their own thumbprint of whatever they want it to be about and not a continuation of the story. It's just vanity.
To a point your correct. But you made a simple falicy that everyone has made. You forgot Data has a Positronic Brain, and you forgot what a Positronic brain is.
@@primitivestudio1 Sorry, going to have to ask for some receipts here. Here's mine: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronic_brain I've read pretty much every Asimov book about robots with positronic brains...not to mention I've seen every episode of STTNG. Asimov is the author who came up with the idea...so unless there is something unique about positrons you can explain... like quantum entanglement or some such... Yea, you can't just say "you don't know what you are talking about" and leave it at that. I can say the same to you but at least I offered up a reason why you are the one who doesn't understand. You may understand some key factor here that I missed but you didn't offer it. It's tiresome that on the internet "you don't know what you are talking about" with no evidence or "reciepts" is such a common trope. It's a fallacy itself. What is this "you forget what a positronic brain is" business about anyway? I didn't even bring up that subject, but apparently it's something you considered bringing in to this topic and something you you feel you know a lot about, so feel free to enlighten me as to the part I forgot about. But you aren't are you? Is this some retort you are go about replying to any comment you dislike about Star Trek Picard? Is this the one thing you think people don't understand so that makes it a good comeback? The fact that you even say anyone that watched the show could "forget" that Data has a Positronic brain is utterly ridiculous anyway. They bring it up dozens if not hundreds of times. Data is constantly talking about his android status and there are numerous episodes about about his brain's workings specifically. But yea, I don't expect a reply. I know you don't have a response to this. You might come and tell me off though. That's what I'd expect actually. A civil reply explaining what I you think I missed with details and references would honestly shock me to my core.
I know that future compression algorithms may be better than what we have now
but cut to hank hill saying "do I look like I know what a Jpeg is"
data sitting in a corner babbling with a blurry voice to cover up the lack of information in his memories
there are 31,557,600 seconds in a year, 3.1557 Billion in a century. Even if you used 100 Megabytes for each day...would use 59 Trillion bits.
STP is like someone wrote a loveletter to TNG fans… then tore it up, urinated all over it, and burned it. A total insult to the show's legacy.
We don't care how it was, this is how it now is. - STP writers
Data has the memories of the colonists - this doesn't make them alive, so how can someone say Andro-Picard is alive if he consists of the memories of only one person
A scientist, who uploaded himself into Data, then uploaded himself into the ship's computer, but it was just 1's and 0's and his essence was lost. Picard's essence would be lost.
Data has a maximum storage of 88 PB... we'll be able to beat that in a container half his size in 30 years
You're assuming bits are the same in 300 years. A bit in 300 years could be a gigabyte.
800 qudarillion bits may seem like a lot, but let's put that into perspective. That translates into 1000 Terabytes. we'll have hard drives that big long before the end of the century,
It is actually 100,000 terabytes.
@@WizelBalan *Checks the math again* huh.