So this means that my Malazan journey is coming to an end - at least for now. I want to thank the Malazan community for all the helpful and supportive comments as I have tried to get myself immersed in this series. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for me, but I will never forget all the lovely comments I received from many of you! Thank you all :)
First and foremost, no one is stupid for not enjoying a book or a series. It's a big world with lots of stories to enjoy, so let's all just be kind or at least practice a minimal level of courtesy (yes, even online) by accepting that people are different and experience stories differently. I wish you much fulfillment and enjoyment with your reading, Johan!
I absolutely agree! It has been wonderful to see how kind and helpful Malazan readers have been as I have been trying to get myself immersed in this series. Unfortunately, it has to be a temporary DNF for now but who knows - I might give this series another try someday! Thank you for everything you've done for the Malazan community. I know it is greatly appreciated!
Malazan is all about going with the flow. It's all about not caring if you understand or not, bank the information and try and figure it out later on. Absolute masterpiece. Book 1I looked up how warrens worked and then from there I carried on and never really had to look up much else. WHAT A JOURNEY. I genuinely can't believe that you can' t carry on with it but respect you as a reader so fair enough. Please maybe give it another go.
There's nothing wrong with not enjoying it. If it's not for you then it's not for you. Malazan for me helped me through the darkest time in my life, and I absolutely love the scope and storytelling of the series along with the characters.
It’s absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, it’s just taste. I read Malazan and loved it, found it way, way less difficult than others seem to have found it. No additional resource just read and enjoyed the book. I’m a huge fantasy reader but I DNF’d ASOIAF at A feast for crows, just not for me. Everyone’s different, don’t read what you don’t enjoy you will never read everything you want to in life so if it’s not for you, move on and have no guilt.
i found the series much easier to follow once i stopped worrying about missing bits of it. it shouldn't feel like studying. it can make someone feel stupid if you expect to understand everything, but if you just know you're not going to, you can go along for the ride. even if you don't understand everything the epic parts will still be epic. i find that the payoff usually starts to hit at about the 70% mark in most of the books in the series.
I'm so glad you mentioned this, even if you did so a year ago. I read it, took it on faith that I'd figure it out, and didn't worry about what was going on. Everything came together and was more satisfying than I could have ever hoped for. I read it before ever having heard about it and I think half the problem is that people go into it expecting it to be overwhelming and burdensome. It can be, sure, but if you just keep going it's like pulling on a string that unravels itself. Too many people start reading knowing it is all knotted up and stress over trying to untangle it all.
I take my hat off to you for being honest with this series. I agree, one shouldn't have to work too hard to enjoy a story - no matter how big. But to read ten thousand pages only to have to reread them to finally understand the what's going on is, as you say, too much like hard work. Love your channel, by the way.
Thank you for the encouragement, Leslie! It is always nerve-wracking to post critical thoughts! I do appreciate many thousands of readers adore Eriksen prose and plot structure but unfortunately it isn't for me.
It has been fun to go through this journey simultaneously as you have been reading through Malazan. It is unfortunate it didn't end up working for both of us. I saw you DNFed Memories of Ice recently and really appreciated your review/vlog. You were able to articulate my feelings very well!
I can't describe how much I appreciate this video. I also wanted to be a part of the fandom because of how loved it is by it's fans. I made it to the end of Deadhouse Gates and stopped the series. The work versus reward just ended up being to much. Some of the scenes in both books were phenomenal but in the end not worth everything leading up to them. I commend the author, but there were just so many more books on my TBR that I couldn't dedicate any more time to Malazan. I won't say it's completely DNF, but definitely deeply shelved for now
For Malazan, the payoffs are always worthwhile, and part of the point the series pushes is how to feel empathy for characters who are unlikeable. That said the only way to enjoy the series is to be comfortable asking questions more than getting answers. You don’t find out what the series is “about” until quite late, but you can make it to Memories of Ice you’ll see the first puzzle pieces fitting together. Still, it’s OK not to like the series.
The nicest thing in books is that everybody can have its own opinion about them. The most important thing is, not to categorize readers by things they read, and not insult each other, when the book we love, somebody hates because of something. Respect each other, that's the thing.
I HATE the advice that listening to podcasts, reading chapter summaries, or viewing powerpoints is required for enjoying the books! If readers are naturally curious and want to use those resources, more power to them! It’s wonderful that those things are available, but they are not required. There was a large Malazan fandom before those resources existed. All that said, having some knowledge that this series is doing something different than other fantasy can help readers relax into the experience. It sounds like you understood those differences and still didn’t feel a connection, which is totally okay. There is no shame or apology needed for DNFing a series that’s not for you. Happy reading!
I agree with you and really appreciate the help you've provided. There is no doubt that Steven Erikson is an absolute genius and has really brought something new to the genre. However, while I appreciate this work I also have to acknowledge that it isn't working for me. Thank you for the kind comment!
I've read through Gardens of the Moon recently, and it has left me with the need to read everything else from this series. It encompasses pretty much everything I enjoy about fantasy and the fact that we never really bridge the gap between reader and character is just awesome, you don't understand necessarily understand these people from the depth of their intimacy, learning their vulnerabilities, insecurities... That doesn't matter that much when they are, ultimately, history-shapers, world-movers, legends, leaders. That's what matters about them, and that's straight up awesome. Erikson understands extremely well how history, culture and power really happen and interact with each other, better than almost any other author I've read. Paranoia makes a whole lot of sense when you're thrust in the middle of some of the most powerful people in the world and their power hangs above them like the sword of damocles. All I can say is, after just reading the first book, I'm hooked.
Man, I can't recommend taking breaks enough. I got a ton of pushback and accusations of "why not just admit you're quitting" when I said I was taking a break over a year ago. But it's good for your sanity. Going back in August (Toll the Hounds).
Malazan is my favorite series, and possibly my favorite story, of all time. I recognize and know its not for everyone, and I will not judge anyone for not enjoying it, or for DNFing it. You gave the first two books two solid tries, and I'd say that's enough to know whether you'll enjoy it. I've had similar experiences with several series and TV shows, including the Sopranos, widely considered one of the best television shows ever created. Its just not for me. Good luck, hope you find another series you enjoy in the very near future!!
yo can we talk ? cuz i have started reading gardens of the moon and rn i'm reading chapter 11. im really enjoying the book.but there many things i dont understand either, so if u can help me it would have been better
This is one of my favorite series, but it’s not for everyone. You tried it, and then tried again. Kudos to you. Also, long time lurker. Love your videos, man, keep up the good work ☺️
I like when books start small and slowly builds the world. When you throw me in the middle and send me haphazardly every which way I lose interest it makes the book a chore to read. Add to that the fact that most storylines have no follow through in the next book makes this series unenjoyable for most.
Honestly in my personal experience and opinion, the best way to read these books is to just let it all soak in without questioning anything, just pure experience in the process of being just as lost and confused as the characters themselves. Stop trying to understand til you’ve had the totality of the story left it’s impression on you. If you try to pick it apart before you reach the next chapter you more than likely will find yourself looking for a handout with solid grounding rather than your imagination to fill in the blanks and use prescience to see how events might unfold. Nothing less than pure immersion as if you were experiencing it all alongside every group is required. Bias out the window 🎉experience is the best hands on learning experience. Your approach to reading is fundamentally challenged in these books.
As a booktuber when dealing with lengthy series I think it is wise to apply the sunk cost fallacy- it is difficult to read ten books In a series if it doesn't click with you - so most people who do get all the way to the end are going to be people who like it and some of them are going to be people who didn't really like it but need to defend the time they have invested in the series. There are probably a far greater number of people who have abandoned this series than is readily apparent and one thing I like about your channel is the honesty with which you approach your reads and how it is always a matter of enjoyment first and foremost. Don't read it if it isn't clicking and consider coming back to it sometime later in life of you feel like it - or don't. Life is too short to read books you aren't enjoying and to read out of pure peer pressure
A few things you mentioned, RE needing resources, re-reading pages and/or chapters: it comes down to what level you are reading it at I think. There are levels of understanding happening that allow one to read and enjoy the general story, and then further levels beyond where certain things are happening behind the scenes that don't add up. But that's life and I think that's the approach if I'm honest. Allow the general story to hold your attention but not forget the details that left you baffled, they may make sense and give you an aha moment. The re-reading gets interesting when, as you have more knowledge, and then pick up on what's actually happening. I think the hype and the talk of sources take away from an individual's own journey through this series. And that's where for me it was a life changing series. My thoughts man, good luck on your journey.
I listened to most of the series on audiobooks (while reading along) and i found it a lot easier to follow along with the story and know what was going on. I know a lot of people not being able to read along with audiobooks but it works for me.
The bit with Steven Erikson and you with an open mouth was so funny for some reason. I laughed so hard, lol. Thank you. I need to make the same with my face now.
I'm currently reading it without additional material and really have to sit down and make a mind map to get everything. For me personally its really fun to dig through all the information, but it takes a lot of time. When a book isnt fun to read then you shouldnt read it. Still impressed, how long you tried. Shows, that you really wanted to like it.
As I said in a previous comment I’ve jumped to Malazan without knowing what I’m up to lol ,half the book I was like there’s too much going and I have to slow my reading and concentrate more I restarted from the beginning and then it was much easier and enjoyable , tackling the second book wish me luck lol
Super good video, I think it's quite admirable that you have just come to the conclusion that this is not the series for you. And that is okay! I have a sneaking suspicion that I will have a similar experience, but I am still just going to go in with an open mind whenever I finally get the courage to pick it up, haha. Thanks for sharing your honest opinion/experience :)
I was reading The Bonehunters when you uploaded your last video about Malazan. I am currently almost done with Reapers Gale. Somehow, despite the frustrations, I am able to power through it. I listen to certain repetitive ambience music to help me get through these books. There is this youtube channel called Gaming Ambience and his Dragon Age: Origins 1 Hour of Music playlist has helped me in keeping focus with these books. My favorite is Lake Calenhad Docks. Although when I first started this series back in late December of 2022, I was listening to Elder Scrolls ost as I was reading. I rarely use guides and most of the eternal guides I search for was for early in the series. I am surprised that most of the suggestions for reading Malazan is the usage of guides rather than suggestions on how to smooth out the actual reading experience.
Cheers 🤩🙏🏻🎖 to you for giving the series so many chances. I think your experience is good to share as it illustrates to others that they should read what they want for the REASONS THEY CHOOSE and not feel obligated or pressured to read something that other people rave about. Taste is subjective. As a die-hard Malazan fan, I am saddened you will not be joining our tribe, but that's OK. Who knows, maybe years down the road you'll give it another try and you might find your tastes have shifted and the series will be more "up your alley".
What really helped for me what listening to the first 2 audiobooks.. it really helped me to sort passively through the first time. gaining some knowledge & understanding of the general plot, key players and places. Reading then allows you to go back and really fill in any holes. The Audiobooks helped give everyone a voice to. Ralph Listen did such a good job on those first 2 books.. book 3 is a little weird becuase he shifts around the voices he was using for most character in the first book. This is going to be my method going forward.. first listen and then read
Valid points. This is why I never bothered starting with it. Life is too short, very little time and so many other books to read. I don't want to spend my time reading something that I am told I will probably not understand and have to work hard so I can understand it. Though I am curious due to all the hype around it, I am not going to even try.
I really hope one day you want to read it again without the pressure of making a video. Wanting to get it "right" is simply not the way. This is an ocean for you to dive into, to be ready to know nothing except that the waters make no sense to those arriving. You will discover things, the same way any diver does. The water is black, it's deep, there are currents, and reading about them can never prepare you for their pull. You can only trust that you have a strong enough swimming ability to survive, and that humans have been swimming for Millenia.
I was up to the middle of the 6th book then I put it down to go read Tolkien. By the time I came back I couldn't remember enough to jump back in so I started over with audiobooks and I'm enjoying it again, and this time it makes more sense.
I'd definitely say it's just not for you. It does seem to be a series that is more popular with an older crowd, so I think it definitely has a lot to do with taste. If you *REALLY* want to love Malazan, just don't give up on it. Every few years when looking for something to read, try them again, and maybe one day it will click. I was hooked from the start, like prologue, chapter 1, chapter 2, on and on, devoured them. I did the opposite to most people though when starting. I read a chapter summary first, which really helps give you a frame of reference going in, and it kind of is a cheat code to skipping to new game+, because when I read the chapter it just let me absorb the details without trying to hard to manage names, I knew who was important, what roughly happens, and it let me relax and soak it in. I didn't have access to this powerpoint (although I would have probably used it) but I did also use the global map, you can find it online, and its even on a 3d globe. using that really helped me keep a frame of reference to whats going on, I'd look where everything was at the start of a chapter. All in all, these little things didn't take long. maybe 2 or 3 minutes to read, and 30 seconds on a map. However, I came into the series starving for something with the depth and scale of ASOIAF, with theory's and deep lore to dig in to, and an entire world to understand. And I wasn't interested in *reading* , I was interested in *Malazan* , and that changes things. I think it comes down to getting the bug for the world, getting such a craving to learn more about something in the world or you find a character really interesting, and you just want to know more. When I think of reading Malazan, it feels more like playing a game than it does just getting a nice story. Your trying to look deeper into whats happening, why, whos working for who, and how did they do it. It's very different and unique in the genre, and honestly one of the few comparisons I can think of is House of Leaves, which is a WILDLY different story, I know, but invokes a similar feeling of interacting with the story like a detective. I think that's why people recommend the podcasts so much, because it's interactive. And its fun to come together in groups and share/hear theory's, beliefs, and thoughts on the story. I will say that at the start of book 3 i stopped using summaries, and im not sure when, maybe book 6, I hardly ever looked at a map.
You gave it a proper go! I was half expecting you to lob the book over your shoulder at any moment 😆Bizarrely I am rather tempted to take up the challenge, but I have SO MANY other books I want to read 🤦♂️
Well, as someone that just finished the 5th book of the series, i can somewhat relate with the confusion part. The books, no doubt about it, have a very convoluted sequence and timeline but i'm still likeing them as a all. I would say that you Sr. just got caught by the hype and got betraid by it. i just read the books for what they were and the stories that they presented, and after some time i just undestood that this books are just about connecting the dots and trying to construct the fantasy world piece by piece, detail after detail and time to time try to figure out where this story relates to the others that i read before or if theres any connections. To be fair i dont really get the part where you mention that this series is too much work or requirering extra work to read. For me its just about being ok not undestanding everything that happens immediately. I'm just trusting that in the end everything will make more or less sense and stuff will be explained. Being in the middle of the books, i'm more and more incline to believe that Malazan Book of the Fallen is not a book series, but like the name says, a single BOOK with 10 chapters that for being too big each chapter was separeted in its own book. Excited to see where this leads. Hope the spark to read this book again comes to you and i hope that you end up enjoying.
I'm with you on all of these points. I personally am a slower reader and I see so much praise for this series but if it takes that long to get good i.m not sure I can get through it. Plus I'm not a fan of SA in any media form. So that's kind of a nail in the coffin for me...
Love that you're honest with yourself, I felt that way by book 1 and knew already it wouldn't be for me. I just hate the idea of being confused by the very content of dialogues and who's talking to whom. Absolutely exhausting. I don't understand how people have the energy or will to push through that, but I clearly don't (and I do think I'm decently intelligent). An acquaintance of mine who's currently reading the books back to back (how?!) now finished Midnight Tides (book #5) and when I asked her "when did it start to click for you?" she told me it only started making more sense while reading that fifth book. What drove her to continue was her love of the characters and the fascinating world-building. Just like you, when it comes to Fantasy, if I don't connect to the characters (I don't even have to relate all that much to them, I just need them to be interesting to follow), I struggle a lot to pick up a book. I think Petrik Leo said he only started caring about the characters by book #3 and he's also a character-driven reader. Like you said, that's a lot of work, and most of these people have reread that whole series by now because they only got the big picture by book #10. That sounds frustrating to me, but to each their own. 🤷
Keep it up to book 3! That usually changes everything! 👏 (if you are not like me and Merphy Napier who we loved at once. He overreacted here. A lot loved it immediately and had no issues… basically do not try to understand everything just read have fun and that’s it. Do not expect a linear solution or main hero or such you will be a witness of things think like that. That’s all…
I hangmen a tip for you… Listen to the books instead or reading ! Audible and others have it and is sooo much enjoyable. This serie is so exhausting both mentally and emotionally… I needed months brake between each book especially the first 4 ones I was numb and hollow. I would say that Malazan is a experience worth of your time!
I struggled in the first couple of books, the number of characters, and a completely foreign magic system. It was almost too much, but there was enough in it for me to stick with it. I think about the third book, I started understanding it, and I am so glad that I did
Wanting to be part of a "fandom" is a strange motivation that I cannot understand. Trust me, the Malazan fandom mostly lame -- like every other fandom. That said, Malazan is the best fantasy series but it is also unlike pretty much every other fantasy series. It is "everything for someone, not something for everyone." In my opinion, if a reader doesn't feel like it was made for people like himself within the first few chapters of GotM, he should not bother with this series. It's too long and too hardcore. Also, people also get too worked up in their minds about it being "so complex" and "difficult to read" need to just go with the flow more. When you think you're supposed to understand things better, you actually are not.
I think it's just not for everyone. Clearly there are books/authors I don't get and that's okay. I am on book four. I haven't used many other resources since reading GotM, where I did read some chapter summaries. I have noticed that the further into the series I get, the more earlier events become clearer to me as they are referenced. Also the way a lot of things are not overtly explained, but in conversations between characters or just events in the plot things start to click...that is really appealing to me. I like how it seems almost like a big mystery that slowly reveals itself. But I can definitely see how that could be annoying for others.
“Sometimes a mage would just up and hug him, then walk away. Once, a wizard he was talking to just started crying. That had frightened Beak.” ― Steven Erikson, The Complete Malazan Book of the Fallen
I haven't started Malazan yet but I am excited to begin sometime next year. But I do understand the frustration that comes from an underwhelming fantasy series. I had to DNF Mistborn after the second book and I have no inclination to jump into the Stormlight Archive as the entire time it felt I was reading an RPG adventure for middle grade audience with cardboard characters (except perhaps OreSeur) and total checkpoint based plot. Such a disappointment.🙄
I’m of those who thinks the series is a masterwork. I’ve only read until Book 4, thought the third to be one of the best fantasy books I’ve ever read. But I have to read chapter summaries after finishing each one and, as you say, it is so much work. Sometimes I ask myself: “Is having to do this even right?”
This is fair. I would say this. I think people saying you have to be smart to "get" malazan are not really correct. I will say that the series is for people who dont mind re-reading or flipping back. Some of the lore comes through that digging and you get out of it what you give it. Now, if every series i read was done in that style, i wouldnt read many books. I would burn out. It is a style i have adored the experience with, but it is not always what i want to get out of books. I generally want to kick back and enjoy, something that took a while for me to really end up doing with the series. I dont go to summaries or the powerpoints and feel ok, but for the first 2 books i definately did a fair bit of that and it did take away from some of my enjoyment. But now it is full throttle. Thanks for giving the books a go. You may find an itch sometime in the future to give it a go, at whick i would say just try book 3, as that is the one where people usually click.
Hey there!! So I kinda doubt that I will be able to really convince you to dive back into it, especially if you not enjoying it right now, but I want to offer you one more opinion. I have to tell you, I suspended my need for understanding until I got partway through the third book. At that point, I realized that I was building an understanding of the world slowly by existing in it. That said, I have experienced that drag, I think I'm on book 7 right now and had to pause for a few months, but after getting through the third book I had decided it was in one of my favorite series of all time. You will always be learning new things about the world, but after book three the world starts to solidify a bit as you are starting to have a picture in your mind of the geopolitical landscape over the past like hundred thousand years on the planet(with big gaps of course), and the magic system. Just like growing to understand the world we live in, and to grow a picture in your head about what life is like, so too will you start to have a grip on the world of Malazan. I'm on tonight because after a conversation with a friend I decided to dive back in tonight and finish the series but wanted to find some recaps on the way home. If you can ever dive back in to it, just know that you will experience some of the most emotional, heartbreaking, hilarious, badass, horrifying, and triumphant moments ever to be written down on paper. It honestly is sitting in fighting range within my internal ranking from the Cosmere, And that is only because I feel this sense of hope, even when all is lost deepset into that universe, Malazan has a colder view, I can only hope myself that things will turn out okay in that series, things are on shakey ground just like real life. That truly is why I do love it to, just as with our world, it could all crumble, as many civilizations have in the past, and that past has shaped us. Similarly in Malazan, you will end up seeing the history of the world from long before humans even walked the planet. Anywho thanks for sharing your love of books with us! Seeing your leatherbounds tickles my soul, I'll throw you a sub just for that and check out some more videos sometime. xD If a small part of you ever wonders if it's worth it to get even a little farther, I hope you remember something of this message and it gives you that last kick you need to do it. I promise you, there are characters you will love
I personally enjoy the book by not engaging with any summaries at all and just rolling with it (not understanding every detail the first time is fine). Half the fun is rereading books a couple of times and catching new connections and bits every time. I get it is not for everyone, but I really enjoy this almost exploration-like experience. Every time you have a moment where a puzzle piece falls into place it just feels amazing. It is a very unique reading experience, but I keep coming back to it again and again. ^^
“Kruppe is generous enough this morning to disregard dubious observation regarding his eating habits and the habits of his orifices.” ― Steven Erikson, The Complete Malazan Book of the Fallen
Sounds like it just didn't click with you, but as someone who loves characters (Robin Hobb and GRRM are favs) I also am like 7 books into Malazan and while I'm not sure I "enjoy" it the same way, I respect it quite a bit. I do think (for me) I had to approach it in a totally different way than I read books. I also bounced off book 1 the first time I read it as I had no idea what was going on. But I think what carried me through the second time was a different attitude. I had to just kind of accept that I wasn't going to get everything, and that's ok. I moved from trying to "follow" it, to more of like... a sense of wonder and mystery, embracing that this is a weird world I don't understand, and the joy comes in the spectacle, of slowly unfolding the layers of the onion, of learning about this world with like a 10,000 year old history and how everything works. It's like watching Lost or one of those TV shows where everything is a mystery. Eventually you might get your answer (or you might not), but just sinking into the world that kept throwing new stuff and layers at me over and over was what kept me going. It's complex, but that's not bad. Coffee and fine wines don't taste good at first, whereas wine coolers do, but they are acquired tastes for a reason, and people who enjoy them learn to appreciate the complexity, even if it's not as immediately approachable. But it's also totally fine to taste one of those and just be like, "This is too sour for me, no thanks!".
I definitely understand. I read the books and loved them, but the first read was sometimes hard. What I can recommend are the audio book version. They are fantastic. I‘m listening to Midnight Tides at the moment and I love every minute. Maybe give that a try!
I like the malazan book especially because there is this „you can read other sources (malazan fandom/wiki) to understand“-thing, because of that you get deeper into the lore but i understand if this isn’t an enjoyment for everyone. But there is no need to read this „other sources to understand“ time after time it gets better and then you‘ll understand
I appreciate that you are honest about this series. It doesn’t sound like it would be good for me either. I read to enjoy myself or to learn not to work. Malazan seems like more worst than it’s worth.
Thank you! I always try to be honest! It is an epic series but it is certainly not for everyone. It is still worth a giving a try - you might end up loving it!
Recently I finished Gardens of the Moon and I love it for me is a 5 out of 5 Best reading for 2024 so far. I would like very much reading the second book but unfortunately it doesn't release in my native language 😢
“Young? He’d hear his own harsh, pained laugh. Oh, no, not this lass. She’s old. She walked under a blood-red moon in the dawn of time, did this one. Her face is the face of all that cannot be fathomed, and she’s looking you in the eye, Whiskeyjack, and you’ll never know what she’s thinking.” ― Steven Erikson, The Complete Malazan Book of the Fallen
You make some very good points. My biggest issue with the series is that it is definitely not sequential, at least through book 6 where I'm currently sitting. I will fall on my completionism sword to a fault so I will definitely push through, but I can't disagree with anything you said. Some books are just not for people. Some of my favorite characters aren't really in the main story until book 4 or 5. I salute you in attempting the series and being honest. Booktube should be a place with different tastes and different opinions and be celebrated for that. Can't wait to see what you're reading (or have read) next!
Thank you for this video! I'm having basically the same experience as you, though you're farther along than I am. Normally, when I read on my days off, I can't help but to burn through hundreds of pages; however, with Malazan, I have to force myself to read even ten pages. It's such a chore. I don't need things to be spoonfed to me, but Erikson doesn't seem to respect his reader's time. By most accounts, he puts in great effort creating his world, but he seems so lazy in actually presenting the story.
I just bought Deadhouse Gates. Haven’t read Gardens, but the store didn’t have it and I was just itching to jump in. So I read the prologue. Amazing. But also, a lot. I followed along and made all the connections, but all the delivery was so… oblique? I’m left wondering what I might have missed. It was cool, but I get the impression that if this is the execution, then those missing pieces will add up quickly. But I will press on.
I know exactly how you feel 😢 I adore extremely long and very dense stories, and was so looking forward to reading this extremely popular book series. I struggled. Erikson has has a beautiful style, absolute wordsmith, I just didn’t care about any of the characters or anything that was going to happen to them 🥺 I tried both formats, I have read, and then I would listen to the same chapter…. I finished the first book, and I can’t make myself continue 😩 If you ever discover what is it we are missing, please share I so want to love these 🙏❤️
New mindset. You still too used to the same books. As simple as that. And this is intentional to be not like them. Why? Bc they use the same things over and over again. Are they bad? No. Could they better? Here is the example. For what? One : Wheel of Time - good vs evil trope. Here there is no such a thing as : clear evil/good. No main hero. No linear plot. No explanation for the magic system in full. No gender issues. No stupid characters just to bend for the story. Immortal characters here are really have dense and distinct differences from a human, you can’t just return to life without very! serious consequences. Humanity is a thing. Here it is portrayed perfectly. Compassion as well as betrayal. This book is a reflection to our life’s struggles and humanity. From a distance bc the author leaves it to you!!! to evaluate and decide the moral lessons it won’t give you what’s the answer from all the events you witnessed. You may hear what a person say yet it’s not the full picture you can take away. It’s usually one side of it. You can decide if he/she is wrong or not, is it worth it or not, and so on. It’s not putting it to your hand as usual.
This makes me sad, but i can acknowledge that malazan isnt for everyone. I absolutely LOVE this series, i hope you find something that works better for you, maybe some day youll come back and try again and it will work for you, i hope so, but if not, i hope you keep finding more series thst you love
I'm at the same point as you. Read Gardens of the moon last year, I had no idea what was going on. Now I started Deadhouse Gates and it's no better. I will plunder through at least to the book 3, but seriously I'm doubting all the praise about Malazan. If anything, it proves Fantasy reader are the most tolerant and patient readers out there.
I read through main series and I'm now onto the Kharkanas Trilogy. Halfway through Deadhouse gates I realized that I needed to not look things up. Throughout the 10,000 pages in this series the little bread crumbs add up. As you read just accept that there is so much you don't know and enjoy the little morsels of details. Accept that you have been thrown off into the deepend and that as you follow the main story you will get little insights into the greater world. Many of which will show up multiple books later. I can't say this enough. Don't read chapter summaries or try peeking in. There is too much depth. Accept the current and just watch the world slowly crawl by.
I’m on book 5 and haven’t had to have other sources outside of wiki just for looking up races and what not and occasionally a character. I’ve found reading them like an anthology that ties together at times is much easier atleast for first 5 books so far
I really like the feeling of just general confusion, as I think it's pretty much the feeling all the (fun) characters have (for me it's the malazan soldiers) as they also never have any clue as to what's happening and why or by whom. So I think it's mostly about a certain mindset of just laughing and seeing where you will end up.
Not sure if anyone has suggested it or if you care for them, but the audio books are great. I've never read the books, just listened to the audio twice over.
I have never read a book as complicated as that, so for me, I really can't understand what reading it could be like. Makes me want to pick it up and see what reading it is actually like.
I'm pretty much in the same situation as you. I read GotM 4-5 years ago, didn't finished and started it again this January. I finished it, didn't understand some things in the ending but that's ok. Now I am around page 450 of Deadhouse Gates and while this is more clear, I still find the magic and ascendants somehow confusing. I will finish it, but I really do hope that this "ending" is as impressive as it's praised :). My 2 cents is that you shouldn't feel pressed to finish any book. This is not a competition and there are no such things as "must reads". However, if you really "want to be part of this fandom" you could try reading 10-15 pages every few days till you finish this book. Then you would have experienced this famous ending and will be able to decide if it's worth investing any more time in Malazan.
Sorry to hear that, I love DG, the characters and the story and worldbuilding, sad to hear that it isn't working for you and that it became chore to read. I hope you pick up a book you enjoy next!
I just used the wiki to figure out at least a baseline what this race is or who this person is. The proper way to read it is just accept you don't know what's happening just like the characters but as long as you don't mind some spoilers it made it a much easier read that didn't demand a reread immediately
All art is subjective, if a creator 's work does not connect with you don't force it. The role of the audience or reader in this case is sacred. Your enjoyment is your soul telling you what art to follow.
I've never read Malazan but borrowing an idea I've seen elsewhere, what if you read a book you live for a chapter, then read a Malazan chapter, and then read a chapter from another book you love. I believe it's a similar concept as what Charles Duhigg mentioned in The Power of Habit. He said radio stations played Outkast's song Hey Ya but it was unpopular until they played the song after playing other songs that listeners were familiar with. The idea is that Hey Ya was a unique song and when it was played first it was too jarring for the audience but playing it after several other popular songs helped it better connect to its audience.
Not every series is for everyone as some said in those comments you read. Malazan is one of the most epic stories ever written and has the best world building in the genre. But it can definitely be a chore to read. It took me over 8 months to get through the main 10 books. I almost gave up a few times myself, lol. I feel like you have to be in the right mindset for something as huge and complicated as Malazan is; maybe later in life it will appeal to you more.
I jumped to Malazan without knowing anything about it I was totally lost I was telling my self to just wait and everything will come together , half the book and still lost I stopped ,started from the beginning and reading had been easy throughout all the book , but then second book it’s like a new one lol
I kind of know how you feel, I really liked the first 7 books in the series, but the last 3 were definitely a struggle for me. For a lot of people books 8 and 10 were amazing, but they just weren't for me. I read and liked the first two Esslemont books!
If you do feel the itch to try it again, skip the first 2 books and jump into Memories of Ice. It is a more engaging book for most people. Thats where most people seen to really begin to get the Malazan hooks. That being said, sometimes tastes just don't align. In many ways, I relate with not loving the characters. Until the ending of Deadhouse, they were still quite bland to me as well. But that is when it all changed. Thats why we tell people to get to the end. Now it is my favorite, though only being halfway.
It took me until part way into book 8 before I realized I was only really enjoying the discussions on booktube but wasn’t really enjoying the books themselves. I genuinely enjoyed books 1-3 and 5 but it was way too much work trying to keep all of the information clear. Personally, I don’t think these books needed to be so obfuscated to be dense and rewarding. So I’m done too. Too much else to enjoy and do.
I think the criticism of extra reading material is a bit much. Most books/pieces of media have a ton of different sources for chapter summaries, TLDR's and podcasts. Fandoms would point you to them if you found their select piece of media confusing (and Malazan is notoriously confusing to people). I don't think anyone would say 'You should do this along with reading the book' they would only suggest these things if you are into the series already or want to figure some specific thing out. I don't think it is any more normalized in this community than any other community is all.
ya that really rubs me the wrong way. he asked the fans for help, the fans answered by providing various supplemental materials, and his response is "It's weird how normalised it is to have all this help available"...wtf?
I tried reading the first book twice, got through about half of it both times, and gave up. A friend of mine, who loves the series, told me that everything ties together well and it all makes sense when you finish book 10. That's when I realized that it wasn't for me.
To add to your point, its not just that the first three Malazan books are 3,000 pages- its 905,235 words long! Thats A LOT to read, especially if you dislike it.
Man I’m going to regret saying this. But I felt a similar way about Lord of the Rings. I was bored by the sheer amount of environmental explanation. I felt like I really needed illustrations or something to immerse myself because it was so much. It also felt like a huge drag in the plot. But I wanted to love the series as much as everyone else does, so I pushed through. I actually did enjoy RotK quite a bit at least. Ultimately, I understand where you’re coming from. Reading should never be a chore.
Malazan is an acquired taste. I am currently on book 3, Memories of Ice, and I agree with many other readers that it is one of the best series I have ever read. It is also not for everyone.
Ive read the first 4 MBotF books and enjoy them a lot, altho not as much as everyone else seems to (they are a lot of work). I definitely understand how you feel If you're not enjoying it even after the halfway point, you probably wont find the ending all that amazing because you likely wouldn't have connected to any of the characters or the story. Dont push yourself to read something you're not enjoying, too many other books out there to be spending so much time on one youre not enjoying Happy reading!
If you ever happen to wanna try again, you could skip Deadhouse for the moment and go straight to Memories of Ice. Follows more of the cast from Gardens, felt like an easier and more enjoyable read ro me, and has minimal spoilers for DG (maybe skip the epilogue). But as always, no pressure on ever returning to Malazan. Your patience in getting as far as you did is still amazing and commendable, and there's too many books out there to not read what you enjoy.
If you aren't feeling it then don't proceed. What is the point of reading when you are not having fun. It is one of those series where you really need to be at a certain mindset for you to get through it. I do not regret powering through the series without a guide of any sort. Overthinking about having to totally understand every aspect of it would ruin your enjoyment. I just powered through the book and me getting all the main plots of the story was enough and it sinks in the more you proceed. You will suddenly realise that person x, y , and z were actually people you already knew from the previous books and now you are seeing how their stories progress and tie together in the future books and that is when you truly appreciate how good Erikson is with his writing.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on The Dragonbone Chair. It seems to stir up some controversy, albeit for different reasons than Malazan. I'm having trouble deciding whether I should give it a shot or not.
I just recently finished it, it was a challenge to begin with but when the story starts to unfold it picks up the pace. DNFd it twice before around page 150-200 due to the slow start but kept at it this time around and it was rewarding imo. Even the beginning was brilliant once used to his style of writing. 4,5/5
Lol I tried Malazan and even started a readalong for it! It just was NOT for me unfortunately 😅 I will try later in life when I have the time to spend on it … maybe…😂.
I don't understand what people find so confusing and difficult about Malazan. I've read Deadhouse Gates in around 3 weeks and I work a 45 hours job. If I can do it anybody can. Never needed summaries or explanations for anything.
So this means that my Malazan journey is coming to an end - at least for now. I want to thank the Malazan community for all the helpful and supportive comments as I have tried to get myself immersed in this series. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for me, but I will never forget all the lovely comments I received from many of you! Thank you all :)
First and foremost, no one is stupid for not enjoying a book or a series. It's a big world with lots of stories to enjoy, so let's all just be kind or at least practice a minimal level of courtesy (yes, even online) by accepting that people are different and experience stories differently. I wish you much fulfillment and enjoyment with your reading, Johan!
I absolutely agree! It has been wonderful to see how kind and helpful Malazan readers have been as I have been trying to get myself immersed in this series. Unfortunately, it has to be a temporary DNF for now but who knows - I might give this series another try someday!
Thank you for everything you've done for the Malazan community. I know it is greatly appreciated!
But how are you supposed to make yourself feel superior if you can't belittle people with different taste from yours? /s
Well said
@@SJ-GodofGnomes21 Cheers, Si!
One thing that turned me on to start Malazan was constantly seeing how wholesome Malazan fans are on UA-cam.
Malazan is all about going with the flow. It's all about not caring if you understand or not, bank the information and try and figure it out later on. Absolute masterpiece. Book 1I looked up how warrens worked and then from there I carried on and never really had to look up much else. WHAT A JOURNEY. I genuinely can't believe that you can' t carry on with it but respect you as a reader so fair enough. Please maybe give it another go.
There's nothing wrong with not enjoying it. If it's not for you then it's not for you.
Malazan for me helped me through the darkest time in my life, and I absolutely love the scope and storytelling of the series along with the characters.
It’s absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, it’s just taste. I read Malazan and loved it, found it way, way less difficult than others seem to have found it. No additional resource just read and enjoyed the book. I’m a huge fantasy reader but I DNF’d ASOIAF at A feast for crows, just not for me. Everyone’s different, don’t read what you don’t enjoy you will never read everything you want to in life so if it’s not for you, move on and have no guilt.
Even the author of ASOIAF DNF his series 😂
@@Demyk7 And Rothfuss didn´t even write his "series" :D
i found the series much easier to follow once i stopped worrying about missing bits of it. it shouldn't feel like studying. it can make someone feel stupid if you expect to understand everything, but if you just know you're not going to, you can go along for the ride. even if you don't understand everything the epic parts will still be epic. i find that the payoff usually starts to hit at about the 70% mark in most of the books in the series.
I'm so glad you mentioned this, even if you did so a year ago. I read it, took it on faith that I'd figure it out, and didn't worry about what was going on. Everything came together and was more satisfying than I could have ever hoped for. I read it before ever having heard about it and I think half the problem is that people go into it expecting it to be overwhelming and burdensome. It can be, sure, but if you just keep going it's like pulling on a string that unravels itself. Too many people start reading knowing it is all knotted up and stress over trying to untangle it all.
I take my hat off to you for being honest with this series. I agree, one shouldn't have to work too hard to enjoy a story - no matter how big. But to read ten thousand pages only to have to reread them to finally understand the what's going on is, as you say, too much like hard work. Love your channel, by the way.
Thank you for the encouragement, Leslie! It is always nerve-wracking to post critical thoughts! I do appreciate many thousands of readers adore Eriksen prose and plot structure but unfortunately it isn't for me.
We both wanted to be part of this fandom and join this community, but it looks like we're both tapped out! I hope you pick up some great books soon!
It has been fun to go through this journey simultaneously as you have been reading through Malazan. It is unfortunate it didn't end up working for both of us. I saw you DNFed Memories of Ice recently and really appreciated your review/vlog. You were able to articulate my feelings very well!
I can't describe how much I appreciate this video. I also wanted to be a part of the fandom because of how loved it is by it's fans. I made it to the end of Deadhouse Gates and stopped the series. The work versus reward just ended up being to much. Some of the scenes in both books were phenomenal but in the end not worth everything leading up to them. I commend the author, but there were just so many more books on my TBR that I couldn't dedicate any more time to Malazan. I won't say it's completely DNF, but definitely deeply shelved for now
For Malazan, the payoffs are always worthwhile, and part of the point the series pushes is how to feel empathy for characters who are unlikeable. That said the only way to enjoy the series is to be comfortable asking questions more than getting answers. You don’t find out what the series is “about” until quite late, but you can make it to Memories of Ice you’ll see the first puzzle pieces fitting together. Still, it’s OK not to like the series.
The nicest thing in books is that everybody can have its own opinion about them. The most important thing is, not to categorize readers by things they read, and not insult each other, when the book we love, somebody hates because of something. Respect each other, that's the thing.
I absolutely agree 💯
I HATE the advice that listening to podcasts, reading chapter summaries, or viewing powerpoints is required for enjoying the books! If readers are naturally curious and want to use those resources, more power to them! It’s wonderful that those things are available, but they are not required. There was a large Malazan fandom before those resources existed.
All that said, having some knowledge that this series is doing something different than other fantasy can help readers relax into the experience. It sounds like you understood those differences and still didn’t feel a connection, which is totally okay. There is no shame or apology needed for DNFing a series that’s not for you. Happy reading!
I agree with you and really appreciate the help you've provided. There is no doubt that Steven Erikson is an absolute genius and has really brought something new to the genre. However, while I appreciate this work I also have to acknowledge that it isn't working for me. Thank you for the kind comment!
I've read through Gardens of the Moon recently, and it has left me with the need to read everything else from this series. It encompasses pretty much everything I enjoy about fantasy and the fact that we never really bridge the gap between reader and character is just awesome, you don't understand necessarily understand these people from the depth of their intimacy, learning their vulnerabilities, insecurities... That doesn't matter that much when they are, ultimately, history-shapers, world-movers, legends, leaders. That's what matters about them, and that's straight up awesome.
Erikson understands extremely well how history, culture and power really happen and interact with each other, better than almost any other author I've read. Paranoia makes a whole lot of sense when you're thrust in the middle of some of the most powerful people in the world and their power hangs above them like the sword of damocles.
All I can say is, after just reading the first book, I'm hooked.
Man, I can't recommend taking breaks enough. I got a ton of pushback and accusations of "why not just admit you're quitting" when I said I was taking a break over a year ago. But it's good for your sanity. Going back in August (Toll the Hounds).
Malazan is my favorite series, and possibly my favorite story, of all time.
I recognize and know its not for everyone, and I will not judge anyone for not enjoying it, or for DNFing it. You gave the first two books two solid tries, and I'd say that's enough to know whether you'll enjoy it. I've had similar experiences with several series and TV shows, including the Sopranos, widely considered one of the best television shows ever created. Its just not for me.
Good luck, hope you find another series you enjoy in the very near future!!
yo can we talk ? cuz i have started reading gardens of the moon and rn i'm reading chapter 11. im really enjoying the book.but there many things i dont understand either, so if u can help me it would have been better
This is one of my favorite series, but it’s not for everyone. You tried it, and then tried again. Kudos to you. Also, long time lurker. Love your videos, man, keep up the good work ☺️
Thanks, Sebastian!
I like when books start small and slowly builds the world. When you throw me in the middle and send me haphazardly every which way I lose interest it makes the book a chore to read. Add to that the fact that most storylines have no follow through in the next book makes this series unenjoyable for most.
Honestly in my personal experience and opinion, the best way to read these books is to just let it all soak in without questioning anything, just pure experience in the process of being just as lost and confused as the characters themselves. Stop trying to understand til you’ve had the totality of the story left it’s impression on you. If you try to pick it apart before you reach the next chapter you more than likely will find yourself looking for a handout with solid grounding rather than your imagination to fill in the blanks and use prescience to see how events might unfold. Nothing less than pure immersion as if you were experiencing it all alongside every group is required. Bias out the window 🎉experience is the best hands on learning experience. Your approach to reading is fundamentally challenged in these books.
As a booktuber when dealing with lengthy series I think it is wise to apply the sunk cost fallacy- it is difficult to read ten books In a series if it doesn't click with you - so most people who do get all the way to the end are going to be people who like it and some of them are going to be people who didn't really like it but need to defend the time they have invested in the series. There are probably a far greater number of people who have abandoned this series than is readily apparent and one thing I like about your channel is the honesty with which you approach your reads and how it is always a matter of enjoyment first and foremost. Don't read it if it isn't clicking and consider coming back to it sometime later in life of you feel like it - or don't. Life is too short to read books you aren't enjoying and to read out of pure peer pressure
A few things you mentioned, RE needing resources, re-reading pages and/or chapters: it comes down to what level you are reading it at I think. There are levels of understanding happening that allow one to read and enjoy the general story, and then further levels beyond where certain things are happening behind the scenes that don't add up. But that's life and I think that's the approach if I'm honest. Allow the general story to hold your attention but not forget the details that left you baffled, they may make sense and give you an aha moment. The re-reading gets interesting when, as you have more knowledge, and then pick up on what's actually happening. I think the hype and the talk of sources take away from an individual's own journey through this series. And that's where for me it was a life changing series. My thoughts man, good luck on your journey.
I listened to most of the series on audiobooks (while reading along) and i found it a lot easier to follow along with the story and know what was going on.
I know a lot of people not being able to read along with audiobooks but it works for me.
The bit with Steven Erikson and you with an open mouth was so funny for some reason. I laughed so hard, lol. Thank you. I need to make the same with my face now.
I'm currently reading it without additional material and really have to sit down and make a mind map to get everything. For me personally its really fun to dig through all the information, but it takes a lot of time.
When a book isnt fun to read then you shouldnt read it. Still impressed, how long you tried. Shows, that you really wanted to like it.
As I said in a previous comment I’ve jumped to Malazan without knowing what I’m up to lol ,half the book I was like there’s too much going and I have to slow my reading and concentrate more I restarted from the beginning and then it was much easier and enjoyable , tackling the second book wish me luck lol
Super good video, I think it's quite admirable that you have just come to the conclusion that this is not the series for you. And that is okay!
I have a sneaking suspicion that I will have a similar experience, but I am still just going to go in with an open mind whenever I finally get the courage to pick it up, haha.
Thanks for sharing your honest opinion/experience :)
I think you’re making the right decision. I have read 8 of the books and it never seems to get any easier. I’m probably not going to finish it.
I was reading The Bonehunters when you uploaded your last video about Malazan.
I am currently almost done with Reapers Gale.
Somehow, despite the frustrations, I am able to power through it.
I listen to certain repetitive ambience music to help me get through these books.
There is this youtube channel called Gaming Ambience and his Dragon Age: Origins 1 Hour of Music playlist has helped me in keeping focus with these books. My favorite is Lake Calenhad Docks.
Although when I first started this series back in late December of 2022, I was listening to Elder Scrolls ost as I was reading.
I rarely use guides and most of the eternal guides I search for was for early in the series.
I am surprised that most of the suggestions for reading Malazan is the usage of guides rather than suggestions on how to smooth out the actual reading experience.
Keep powering through. It is worth it. I am on my first reread and hoo boy is it a vastly different and more enjoyable experience.
Cheers 🤩🙏🏻🎖 to you for giving the series so many chances. I think your experience is good to share as it illustrates to others that they should read what they want for the REASONS THEY CHOOSE and not feel obligated or pressured to read something that other people rave about. Taste is subjective.
As a die-hard Malazan fan, I am saddened you will not be joining our tribe, but that's OK. Who knows, maybe years down the road you'll give it another try and you might find your tastes have shifted and the series will be more "up your alley".
What really helped for me what listening to the first 2 audiobooks.. it really helped me to sort passively through the first time. gaining some knowledge & understanding of the general plot, key players and places. Reading then allows you to go back and really fill in any holes. The Audiobooks helped give everyone a voice to. Ralph Listen did such a good job on those first 2 books.. book 3 is a little weird becuase he shifts around the voices he was using for most character in the first book. This is going to be my method going forward.. first listen and then read
Valid points. This is why I never bothered starting with it. Life is too short, very little time and so many other books to read. I don't want to spend my time reading something that I am told I will probably not understand and have to work hard so I can understand it. Though I am curious due to all the hype around it, I am not going to even try.
I really hope one day you want to read it again without the pressure of making a video. Wanting to get it "right" is simply not the way. This is an ocean for you to dive into, to be ready to know nothing except that the waters make no sense to those arriving. You will discover things, the same way any diver does. The water is black, it's deep, there are currents, and reading about them can never prepare you for their pull. You can only trust that you have a strong enough swimming ability to survive, and that humans have been swimming for Millenia.
I was up to the middle of the 6th book then I put it down to go read Tolkien. By the time I came back I couldn't remember enough to jump back in so I started over with audiobooks and I'm enjoying it again, and this time it makes more sense.
I'd definitely say it's just not for you. It does seem to be a series that is more popular with an older crowd, so I think it definitely has a lot to do with taste. If you *REALLY* want to love Malazan, just don't give up on it. Every few years when looking for something to read, try them again, and maybe one day it will click. I was hooked from the start, like prologue, chapter 1, chapter 2, on and on, devoured them. I did the opposite to most people though when starting. I read a chapter summary first, which really helps give you a frame of reference going in, and it kind of is a cheat code to skipping to new game+, because when I read the chapter it just let me absorb the details without trying to hard to manage names, I knew who was important, what roughly happens, and it let me relax and soak it in. I didn't have access to this powerpoint (although I would have probably used it) but I did also use the global map, you can find it online, and its even on a 3d globe. using that really helped me keep a frame of reference to whats going on, I'd look where everything was at the start of a chapter. All in all, these little things didn't take long. maybe 2 or 3 minutes to read, and 30 seconds on a map.
However, I came into the series starving for something with the depth and scale of ASOIAF, with theory's and deep lore to dig in to, and an entire world to understand. And I wasn't interested in *reading* , I was interested in *Malazan* , and that changes things. I think it comes down to getting the bug for the world, getting such a craving to learn more about something in the world or you find a character really interesting, and you just want to know more. When I think of reading Malazan, it feels more like playing a game than it does just getting a nice story. Your trying to look deeper into whats happening, why, whos working for who, and how did they do it. It's very different and unique in the genre, and honestly one of the few comparisons I can think of is House of Leaves, which is a WILDLY different story, I know, but invokes a similar feeling of interacting with the story like a detective. I think that's why people recommend the podcasts so much, because it's interactive. And its fun to come together in groups and share/hear theory's, beliefs, and thoughts on the story.
I will say that at the start of book 3 i stopped using summaries, and im not sure when, maybe book 6, I hardly ever looked at a map.
You gave it a proper go! I was half expecting you to lob the book over your shoulder at any moment 😆Bizarrely I am rather tempted to take up the challenge, but I have SO MANY other books I want to read 🤦♂️
I read all 10 and still 100% agree with you. It doesn't get easier or better as you read on. Hard DNF it if you're feeling that way.
Well, as someone that just finished the 5th book of the series, i can somewhat relate with the confusion part.
The books, no doubt about it, have a very convoluted sequence and timeline but i'm still likeing them as a all.
I would say that you Sr. just got caught by the hype and got betraid by it.
i just read the books for what they were and the stories that they presented, and after some time i just undestood that this books are just about connecting the dots and trying to construct the fantasy world piece by piece, detail after detail and time to time try to figure out where this story relates to the others that i read before or if theres any connections.
To be fair i dont really get the part where you mention that this series is too much work or requirering extra work to read. For me its just about being ok not undestanding everything that happens immediately. I'm just trusting that in the end everything will make more or less sense and stuff will be explained.
Being in the middle of the books, i'm more and more incline to believe that Malazan Book of the Fallen is not a book series, but like the name says, a single BOOK with 10 chapters that for being too big each chapter was separeted in its own book.
Excited to see where this leads.
Hope the spark to read this book again comes to you and i hope that you end up enjoying.
I'm with you on all of these points. I personally am a slower reader and I see so much praise for this series but if it takes that long to get good i.m not sure I can get through it. Plus I'm not a fan of SA in any media form. So that's kind of a nail in the coffin for me...
Love that you're honest with yourself, I felt that way by book 1 and knew already it wouldn't be for me. I just hate the idea of being confused by the very content of dialogues and who's talking to whom. Absolutely exhausting. I don't understand how people have the energy or will to push through that, but I clearly don't (and I do think I'm decently intelligent). An acquaintance of mine who's currently reading the books back to back (how?!) now finished Midnight Tides (book #5) and when I asked her "when did it start to click for you?" she told me it only started making more sense while reading that fifth book. What drove her to continue was her love of the characters and the fascinating world-building. Just like you, when it comes to Fantasy, if I don't connect to the characters (I don't even have to relate all that much to them, I just need them to be interesting to follow), I struggle a lot to pick up a book. I think Petrik Leo said he only started caring about the characters by book #3 and he's also a character-driven reader. Like you said, that's a lot of work, and most of these people have reread that whole series by now because they only got the big picture by book #10. That sounds frustrating to me, but to each their own. 🤷
Thank you for being so honest! I'm very curious to read the first book and see what my impression is 👀
Thank you for the encouragement!Definitely let me know your thoughts if you pick it up 👀
Keep it up to book 3! That usually changes everything! 👏 (if you are not like me and Merphy Napier who we loved at once. He overreacted here. A lot loved it immediately and had no issues… basically do not try to understand everything just read have fun and that’s it. Do not expect a linear solution or main hero or such you will be a witness of things think like that. That’s all…
I hangmen a tip for you… Listen to the books instead or reading ! Audible and others have it and is sooo much enjoyable. This serie is so exhausting both mentally and emotionally… I needed months brake between each book especially the first 4 ones I was numb and hollow. I would say that Malazan is a experience worth of your time!
I struggled in the first couple of books, the number of characters, and a completely foreign magic system. It was almost too much, but there was enough in it for me to stick with it. I think about the third book, I started understanding it, and I am so glad that I did
I am glad you found it worthwhile!
Wanting to be part of a "fandom" is a strange motivation that I cannot understand. Trust me, the Malazan fandom mostly lame -- like every other fandom. That said, Malazan is the best fantasy series but it is also unlike pretty much every other fantasy series. It is "everything for someone, not something for everyone." In my opinion, if a reader doesn't feel like it was made for people like himself within the first few chapters of GotM, he should not bother with this series. It's too long and too hardcore. Also, people also get too worked up in their minds about it being "so complex" and "difficult to read" need to just go with the flow more. When you think you're supposed to understand things better, you actually are not.
I think it's just not for everyone. Clearly there are books/authors I don't get and that's okay. I am on book four. I haven't used many other resources since reading GotM, where I did read some chapter summaries. I have noticed that the further into the series I get, the more earlier events become clearer to me as they are referenced. Also the way a lot of things are not overtly explained, but in conversations between characters or just events in the plot things start to click...that is really appealing to me. I like how it seems almost like a big mystery that slowly reveals itself. But I can definitely see how that could be annoying for others.
Sad, I started the series because of you and now I'm hooked
“Sometimes a mage would just up and hug him, then walk away. Once, a wizard he was talking to just started crying. That had frightened Beak.”
― Steven Erikson, The Complete Malazan Book of the Fallen
Dang i day definitely give it another try later on. I juat finished book 8 and it was amazing. Just start with book 1 and go for it.
I haven't started Malazan yet but I am excited to begin sometime next year. But I do understand the frustration that comes from an underwhelming fantasy series. I had to DNF Mistborn after the second book and I have no inclination to jump into the Stormlight Archive as the entire time it felt I was reading an RPG adventure for middle grade audience with cardboard characters (except perhaps OreSeur) and total checkpoint based plot. Such a disappointment.🙄
I’m of those who thinks the series is a masterwork. I’ve only read until Book 4, thought the third to be one of the best fantasy books I’ve ever read. But I have to read chapter summaries after finishing each one and, as you say, it is so much work. Sometimes I ask myself: “Is having to do this even right?”
This is fair. I would say this. I think people saying you have to be smart to "get" malazan are not really correct. I will say that the series is for people who dont mind re-reading or flipping back. Some of the lore comes through that digging and you get out of it what you give it.
Now, if every series i read was done in that style, i wouldnt read many books. I would burn out. It is a style i have adored the experience with, but it is not always what i want to get out of books. I generally want to kick back and enjoy, something that took a while for me to really end up doing with the series. I dont go to summaries or the powerpoints and feel ok, but for the first 2 books i definately did a fair bit of that and it did take away from some of my enjoyment. But now it is full throttle.
Thanks for giving the books a go. You may find an itch sometime in the future to give it a go, at whick i would say just try book 3, as that is the one where people usually click.
It's a tough one! Maybe the toughest in the business. It calls readers back ...
Hey there!!
So I kinda doubt that I will be able to really convince you to dive back into it, especially if you not enjoying it right now, but I want to offer you one more opinion.
I have to tell you, I suspended my need for understanding until I got partway through the third book.
At that point, I realized that I was building an understanding of the world slowly by existing in it.
That said, I have experienced that drag, I think I'm on book 7 right now and had to pause for a few months, but after getting through the third book I had decided it was in one of my favorite series of all time.
You will always be learning new things about the world, but after book three the world starts to solidify a bit as you are starting to have a picture in your mind of the geopolitical landscape over the past like hundred thousand years on the planet(with big gaps of course), and the magic system.
Just like growing to understand the world we live in, and to grow a picture in your head about what life is like, so too will you start to have a grip on the world of Malazan.
I'm on tonight because after a conversation with a friend I decided to dive back in tonight and finish the series but wanted to find some recaps on the way home.
If you can ever dive back in to it, just know that you will experience some of the most emotional, heartbreaking, hilarious, badass, horrifying, and triumphant moments ever to be written down on paper.
It honestly is sitting in fighting range within my internal ranking from the Cosmere,
And that is only because I feel this sense of hope, even when all is lost deepset into that universe,
Malazan has a colder view, I can only hope myself that things will turn out okay in that series, things are on shakey ground just like real life.
That truly is why I do love it to, just as with our world, it could all crumble, as many civilizations have in the past, and that past has shaped us. Similarly in Malazan, you will end up seeing the history of the world from long before humans even walked the planet.
Anywho thanks for sharing your love of books with us!
Seeing your leatherbounds tickles my soul, I'll throw you a sub just for that and check out some more videos sometime. xD
If a small part of you ever wonders if it's worth it to get even a little farther, I hope you remember something of this message and it gives you that last kick you need to do it.
I promise you, there are characters you will love
I personally enjoy the book by not engaging with any summaries at all and just rolling with it (not understanding every detail the first time is fine). Half the fun is rereading books a couple of times and catching new connections and bits every time. I get it is not for everyone, but I really enjoy this almost exploration-like experience. Every time you have a moment where a puzzle piece falls into place it just feels amazing. It is a very unique reading experience, but I keep coming back to it again and again. ^^
“Kruppe is generous enough this morning to disregard dubious observation regarding his eating habits and the habits of his orifices.”
― Steven Erikson, The Complete Malazan Book of the Fallen
I just bought the entire series and can't wait to read it! I have heard mixed reviews but I have to read it to see for myself
I hope you will enjoy it! Happy reading!
Sounds like it just didn't click with you, but as someone who loves characters (Robin Hobb and GRRM are favs) I also am like 7 books into Malazan and while I'm not sure I "enjoy" it the same way, I respect it quite a bit. I do think (for me) I had to approach it in a totally different way than I read books. I also bounced off book 1 the first time I read it as I had no idea what was going on. But I think what carried me through the second time was a different attitude. I had to just kind of accept that I wasn't going to get everything, and that's ok. I moved from trying to "follow" it, to more of like... a sense of wonder and mystery, embracing that this is a weird world I don't understand, and the joy comes in the spectacle, of slowly unfolding the layers of the onion, of learning about this world with like a 10,000 year old history and how everything works. It's like watching Lost or one of those TV shows where everything is a mystery. Eventually you might get your answer (or you might not), but just sinking into the world that kept throwing new stuff and layers at me over and over was what kept me going. It's complex, but that's not bad. Coffee and fine wines don't taste good at first, whereas wine coolers do, but they are acquired tastes for a reason, and people who enjoy them learn to appreciate the complexity, even if it's not as immediately approachable. But it's also totally fine to taste one of those and just be like, "This is too sour for me, no thanks!".
I definitely understand. I read the books and loved them, but the first read was sometimes hard. What I can recommend are the audio book version. They are fantastic. I‘m listening to Midnight Tides at the moment and I love every minute. Maybe give that a try!
I like the malazan book especially because there is this „you can read other sources (malazan fandom/wiki) to understand“-thing, because of that you get deeper into the lore but i understand if this isn’t an enjoyment for everyone. But there is no need to read this „other sources to understand“ time after time it gets better and then you‘ll understand
I appreciate that you are honest about this series. It doesn’t sound like it would be good for me either. I read to enjoy myself or to learn not to work. Malazan seems like more worst than it’s worth.
Thank you! I always try to be honest! It is an epic series but it is certainly not for everyone. It is still worth a giving a try - you might end up loving it!
Recently I finished Gardens of the Moon and I love it for me is a 5 out of 5
Best reading for 2024 so far.
I would like very much reading the second book but unfortunately it doesn't release in my native language 😢
“Young? He’d hear his own harsh, pained laugh. Oh, no, not this lass. She’s old. She walked under a blood-red moon in the dawn of time, did this one. Her face is the face of all that cannot be fathomed, and she’s looking you in the eye, Whiskeyjack, and you’ll never know what she’s thinking.”
― Steven Erikson, The Complete Malazan Book of the Fallen
You make some very good points. My biggest issue with the series is that it is definitely not sequential, at least through book 6 where I'm currently sitting. I will fall on my completionism sword to a fault so I will definitely push through, but I can't disagree with anything you said. Some books are just not for people. Some of my favorite characters aren't really in the main story until book 4 or 5. I salute you in attempting the series and being honest. Booktube should be a place with different tastes and different opinions and be celebrated for that. Can't wait to see what you're reading (or have read) next!
Thank you for this video! I'm having basically the same experience as you, though you're farther along than I am.
Normally, when I read on my days off, I can't help but to burn through hundreds of pages; however, with Malazan, I have to force myself to read even ten pages. It's such a chore. I don't need things to be spoonfed to me, but Erikson doesn't seem to respect his reader's time. By most accounts, he puts in great effort creating his world, but he seems so lazy in actually presenting the story.
I just bought Deadhouse Gates. Haven’t read Gardens, but the store didn’t have it and I was just itching to jump in. So I read the prologue. Amazing. But also, a lot. I followed along and made all the connections, but all the delivery was so… oblique? I’m left wondering what I might have missed. It was cool, but I get the impression that if this is the execution, then those missing pieces will add up quickly. But I will press on.
Sounds like a book series that needs a TV series or animation series to open that 3rd eye of imagination
I know exactly how you feel 😢 I adore extremely long and very dense stories, and was so looking forward to reading this extremely popular book series. I struggled. Erikson has has a beautiful style, absolute wordsmith, I just didn’t care about any of the characters or anything that was going to happen to them 🥺 I tried both formats, I have read, and then I would listen to the same chapter…. I finished the first book, and I can’t make myself continue 😩 If you ever discover what is it we are missing, please share I so want to love these 🙏❤️
New mindset. You still too used to the same books. As simple as that. And this is intentional to be not like them. Why? Bc they use the same things over and over again. Are they bad? No. Could they better? Here is the example. For what? One : Wheel of Time - good vs evil trope. Here there is no such a thing as : clear evil/good. No main hero. No linear plot. No explanation for the magic system in full. No gender issues. No stupid characters just to bend for the story. Immortal characters here are really have dense and distinct differences from a human, you can’t just return to life without very! serious consequences. Humanity is a thing. Here it is portrayed perfectly. Compassion as well as betrayal. This book is a reflection to our life’s struggles and humanity. From a distance bc the author leaves it to you!!! to evaluate and decide the moral lessons it won’t give you what’s the answer from all the events you witnessed. You may hear what a person say yet it’s not the full picture you can take away. It’s usually one side of it. You can decide if he/she is wrong or not, is it worth it or not, and so on. It’s not putting it to your hand as usual.
What I love about the series is all the confusion and unknowns eventually getting answers further down the line that feel like a bomb was dropped.
This makes me sad, but i can acknowledge that malazan isnt for everyone. I absolutely LOVE this series, i hope you find something that works better for you, maybe some day youll come back and try again and it will work for you, i hope so, but if not, i hope you keep finding more series thst you love
After gardens of the moon read Esslemont Night of knives. It made reading and understanding way easier.
I'm at the same point as you. Read Gardens of the moon last year, I had no idea what was going on. Now I started Deadhouse Gates and it's no better. I will plunder through at least to the book 3, but seriously I'm doubting all the praise about Malazan. If anything, it proves Fantasy reader are the most tolerant and patient readers out there.
If you do, and read book 3 you will change your opinion.
@@nazimelmardi That's all I'm hoping for. I really want to like Malazan, but so far I don't get what is going on.
I read through main series and I'm now onto the Kharkanas Trilogy. Halfway through Deadhouse gates I realized that I needed to not look things up. Throughout the 10,000 pages in this series the little bread crumbs add up. As you read just accept that there is so much you don't know and enjoy the little morsels of details. Accept that you have been thrown off into the deepend and that as you follow the main story you will get little insights into the greater world. Many of which will show up multiple books later. I can't say this enough. Don't read chapter summaries or try peeking in. There is too much depth. Accept the current and just watch the world slowly crawl by.
I’m on book 5 and haven’t had to have other sources outside of wiki just for looking up races and what not and occasionally a character. I’ve found reading them like an anthology that ties together at times is much easier atleast for first 5 books so far
I really like the feeling of just general confusion, as I think it's pretty much the feeling all the (fun) characters have (for me it's the malazan soldiers) as they also never have any clue as to what's happening and why or by whom. So I think it's mostly about a certain mindset of just laughing and seeing where you will end up.
Not sure if anyone has suggested it or if you care for them, but the audio books are great. I've never read the books, just listened to the audio twice over.
I have never read a book as complicated as that, so for me, I really can't understand what reading it could be like. Makes me want to pick it up and see what reading it is actually like.
I'm pretty much in the same situation as you. I read GotM 4-5 years ago, didn't finished and started it again this January. I finished it, didn't understand some things in the ending but that's ok. Now I am around page 450 of Deadhouse Gates and while this is more clear, I still find the magic and ascendants somehow confusing. I will finish it, but I really do hope that this "ending" is as impressive as it's praised :).
My 2 cents is that you shouldn't feel pressed to finish any book. This is not a competition and there are no such things as "must reads".
However, if you really "want to be part of this fandom" you could try reading 10-15 pages every few days till you finish this book. Then you would have experienced this famous ending and will be able to decide if it's worth investing any more time in Malazan.
Sorry to hear that, I love DG, the characters and the story and worldbuilding, sad to hear that it isn't working for you and that it became chore to read. I hope you pick up a book you enjoy next!
I just used the wiki to figure out at least a baseline what this race is or who this person is. The proper way to read it is just accept you don't know what's happening just like the characters but as long as you don't mind some spoilers it made it a much easier read that didn't demand a reread immediately
All art is subjective, if a creator 's work does not connect with you don't force it. The role of the audience or reader in this case is sacred. Your enjoyment is your soul telling you what art to follow.
I've never read Malazan but borrowing an idea I've seen elsewhere, what if you read a book you live for a chapter, then read a Malazan chapter, and then read a chapter from another book you love.
I believe it's a similar concept as what Charles Duhigg mentioned in The Power of Habit. He said radio stations played Outkast's song Hey Ya but it was unpopular until they played the song after playing other songs that listeners were familiar with. The idea is that Hey Ya was a unique song and when it was played first it was too jarring for the audience but playing it after several other popular songs helped it better connect to its audience.
A book you love*
Not every series is for everyone as some said in those comments you read.
Malazan is one of the most epic stories ever written and has the best world building in the genre. But it can definitely be a chore to read. It took me over 8 months to get through the main 10 books. I almost gave up a few times myself, lol. I feel like you have to be in the right mindset for something as huge and complicated as Malazan is; maybe later in life it will appeal to you more.
To me Malazan is the only fantasy series that work for me. It fits my brain and my imagination.
I jumped to Malazan without knowing anything about it I was totally lost I was telling my self to just wait and everything will come together , half the book and still lost I stopped ,started from the beginning and reading had been easy throughout all the book , but then second book it’s like a new one lol
I am planning on reading this series, but I'm probably going to have to switch to the audiobook version for book 2.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who couldn't get through this series. I DNFed in the middle of Book 3.
I kind of know how you feel, I really liked the first 7 books in the series, but the last 3 were definitely a struggle for me. For a lot of people books 8 and 10 were amazing, but they just weren't for me. I read and liked the first two Esslemont books!
I remember when I first started reading the Malazan, I was told you either get used to his style of writing early or you never do
If you do feel the itch to try it again, skip the first 2 books and jump into Memories of Ice. It is a more engaging book for most people. Thats where most people seen to really begin to get the Malazan hooks. That being said, sometimes tastes just don't align.
In many ways, I relate with not loving the characters. Until the ending of Deadhouse, they were still quite bland to me as well. But that is when it all changed. Thats why we tell people to get to the end. Now it is my favorite, though only being halfway.
It took me until part way into book 8 before I realized I was only really enjoying the discussions on booktube but wasn’t really enjoying the books themselves. I genuinely enjoyed books 1-3 and 5 but it was way too much work trying to keep all of the information clear. Personally, I don’t think these books needed to be so obfuscated to be dense and rewarding. So I’m done too. Too much else to enjoy and do.
I think the criticism of extra reading material is a bit much. Most books/pieces of media have a ton of different sources for chapter summaries, TLDR's and podcasts. Fandoms would point you to them if you found their select piece of media confusing (and Malazan is notoriously confusing to people). I don't think anyone would say 'You should do this along with reading the book' they would only suggest these things if you are into the series already or want to figure some specific thing out. I don't think it is any more normalized in this community than any other community is all.
ya that really rubs me the wrong way. he asked the fans for help, the fans answered by providing various supplemental materials, and his response is "It's weird how normalised it is to have all this help available"...wtf?
I tried reading the first book twice, got through about half of it both times, and gave up. A friend of mine, who loves the series, told me that everything ties together well and it all makes sense when you finish book 10. That's when I realized that it wasn't for me.
To add to your point, its not just that the first three Malazan books are 3,000 pages- its 905,235 words long! Thats A LOT to read, especially if you dislike it.
Man I’m going to regret saying this. But I felt a similar way about Lord of the Rings. I was bored by the sheer amount of environmental explanation. I felt like I really needed illustrations or something to immerse myself because it was so much. It also felt like a huge drag in the plot. But I wanted to love the series as much as everyone else does, so I pushed through. I actually did enjoy RotK quite a bit at least. Ultimately, I understand where you’re coming from. Reading should never be a chore.
Malazan is an acquired taste. I am currently on book 3, Memories of Ice, and I agree with many other readers that it is one of the best series I have ever read. It is also not for everyone.
Ive read the first 4 MBotF books and enjoy them a lot, altho not as much as everyone else seems to (they are a lot of work). I definitely understand how you feel
If you're not enjoying it even after the halfway point, you probably wont find the ending all that amazing because you likely wouldn't have connected to any of the characters or the story.
Dont push yourself to read something you're not enjoying, too many other books out there to be spending so much time on one youre not enjoying
Happy reading!
If you ever happen to wanna try again, you could skip Deadhouse for the moment and go straight to Memories of Ice. Follows more of the cast from Gardens, felt like an easier and more enjoyable read ro me, and has minimal spoilers for DG (maybe skip the epilogue).
But as always, no pressure on ever returning to Malazan. Your patience in getting as far as you did is still amazing and commendable, and there's too many books out there to not read what you enjoy.
Ha my comment made your video 🎉
Can I ask, did you ever read Gene Wolf’s book of the new sun and if so what were your thoughts ?
If you aren't feeling it then don't proceed. What is the point of reading when you are not having fun. It is one of those series where you really need to be at a certain mindset for you to get through it. I do not regret powering through the series without a guide of any sort. Overthinking about having to totally understand every aspect of it would ruin your enjoyment. I just powered through the book and me getting all the main plots of the story was enough and it sinks in the more you proceed. You will suddenly realise that person x, y , and z were actually people you already knew from the previous books and now you are seeing how their stories progress and tie together in the future books and that is when you truly appreciate how good Erikson is with his writing.
It's comforting to know that at least somewhere, in someone's head, he's still alive.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on The Dragonbone Chair. It seems to stir up some controversy, albeit for different reasons than Malazan. I'm having trouble deciding whether I should give it a shot or not.
It is on my tbr! I hope to get to it this year!
I just recently finished it, it was a challenge to begin with but when the story starts to unfold it picks up the pace. DNFd it twice before around page 150-200 due to the slow start but kept at it this time around and it was rewarding imo. Even the beginning was brilliant once used to his style of writing. 4,5/5
Lol I tried Malazan and even started a readalong for it! It just was NOT for me unfortunately 😅 I will try later in life when I have the time to spend on it … maybe…😂.
I don't understand what people find so confusing and difficult about Malazan. I've read Deadhouse Gates in around 3 weeks and I work a 45 hours job. If I can do it anybody can. Never needed summaries or explanations for anything.