This is great stuff, Ryan. Believe it or not, we never got instructed in competitive tennis, even at D1, only "coached" and drilled. It's great kids have access to much better actual instruction and training, plus UA-cam videos are an amazing resource, especially when presented so clearly.
This is one of the best explanations of the differences between flat and slice. Only suggestion would be to compare flat serve wide to slice serve wide instead of flat serve T to slice serve wide. That way, we are comparing apples to apples... If we do that, I am thinking that at instant of contact, there will be no difference in where racquet is pointing (because the ball always goes to where racquet is pointing at that brief 3 milliseconds). The difference will be in the path of the racquet after contact (in this video example it was shown to be 16 degrees versus 60 degrees). Would expect similar angles on flat serve wide and slice serve wide.
Thanks coach Ryan. It's amazing the small details you're able to spot and use that to teach us with clear explanation. You're amazing. Wish you a Happy New Year.
Great analysis Coach. I had been struggling the past two or three days when practicing, where even when I was trying to hit a flat serve, it would come out as a spin serve. From your analysis, its because I am either/both 1. rotating too much on my flat serve 2. Being too much on edge at contact on the flat serve.
Great analysis! Very well articulated. Couple questions - is the placement of the hand on the grip the same for both serves, also any way you can show us mechanically the most difficult serve by far to hit, the American twist or kick serve?
Thanks so much Gary. Good ? about the grip. Taylor actually uses “every-so-slightly” different grips on his flat and slice serves. I don’t recommend that. Simply use a continental for both and stay on edge longer for the slice. As for the hardest serve to hit, it’s the kick serve where for a right hander it kicks to the right. For full disclosure, I can only hit that well about 1 out 5 times I try it. Thanks!!
@@2MinuteTennis I actually hit my flat serves eastern like Boris Becker, and slice serve continental to get more rotation. Eastern gives me more pace and placement control.
Great analysis on the detailed differences of the two serves! Especially the body rotation and the arm swing path. BTW, the slice serve you show in here is more for pro, i.e., pronation involved. However, the slice serve of many recreational players is more like a cut of the right side of the ball, a sort of supination, not pronation. Maybe some pros also use that way. Could you please make a video on that kind of slice serve ? Thanks coach and Happy New Year
Though many people “swear up and down” that they supinated when hitting a slice serve its impossible. Film yourself hitting what you feel is a supinating slide serve and you’ll see that it actually doesn’t happen.
@@2MinuteTennis I actually had a feeling recently I was only doing that supination, i.e. cutting the ball when serving, not hitting forward. But it was literally impossible to do that with the same speed I was hitting the ball, it would be extremely painful and destroy your arm, because your elbow would stretch out with full speed.
It’s only possible if you already open your racket strings going towards the ball. If the racket head edge is leading to the ball and you supinate you’ll miss the ball or hit it on the wrong side of the strings, geometrically.
Also want to see a video of giving directions to the serve from the ad side. I wonder how to hit a cross serve from the ad side, if I consider that the phase of the racquet gives the direction of the ball.
I got this. The phase of the racquet will decide the direction of the ball. Giving directions to the serve is well understood. Do you think it is possible to hit a flat serve which can go to the cross corner of the service box?
Hi Ryan, thanks for the excellent analysis! Just a question about the different body positions. It seems like the racquet swing path are more or less the same between two serves. And the major difference is in the direction of the racquet face at impact, i.e. flat: more squared up, slice: more angled. I see McEnron had some extreme coil for his slice serve. But Federer has virtually the same body motion for his slice and flat serves. Just wondering why the more coiled body position can help slice serve. Thanks!
Ryan, there is a slight camera angle difference between the two serves. The flat serve camera is closer to the T. The slight angle difference can account for some of your observations. In general, most pros will try to disguise their serve intentions and not give it away with the body position. Where I think most pros will differ is during the swing path where there is more supination for the flat serve and that's what you pointed out but not in that term. But that's fine because there is just little time to use that information even if you can see the difference. Also, you can serve slice down the T on the deuce side but that really doesn't accomplish anything because the ball will spin toward your opponent, giving him an easier ball to hit. I've never seen an ATP pro do this but it's used by WTA players who have no kick serve. And it's also rare to see a flat serve hit wide on the deuce side as that also doesn't accomplish that much. In general, all ATP players can handle a flat serve on the forehand so I haven't seen it used there but I think I've seen it on the WTA. However, for amateurs it might be good if your opponent has problems handling fast balls on the forehand side.
You try to measure an angle on a flat serve down the T, and claim that the angle would be the same on a flat serve wide to the deuce court or to the body in the deuce court, but show no supporting evidence. Then you show a wide slice to the deuce court and claim the angle would be the same with body or T slices - again w/o evidence. And for the ad side?
This is great stuff, Ryan. Believe it or not, we never got instructed in competitive tennis, even at D1, only "coached" and drilled. It's great kids have access to much better actual instruction and training, plus UA-cam videos are an amazing resource, especially when presented so clearly.
Glad you like the videos and I appreciate the kind words.
This is one of the best explanations of the differences between flat and slice. Only suggestion would be to compare flat serve wide to slice serve wide instead of flat serve T to slice serve wide. That way, we are comparing apples to apples... If we do that, I am thinking that at instant of contact, there will be no difference in where racquet is pointing (because the ball always goes to where racquet is pointing at that brief 3 milliseconds). The difference will be in the path of the racquet after contact (in this video example it was shown to be 16 degrees versus 60 degrees). Would expect similar angles on flat serve wide and slice serve wide.
Thanks coach Ryan. It's amazing the small details you're able to spot and use that to teach us with clear explanation. You're amazing. Wish you a Happy New Year.
Fantastic dissection of the two clips. Thank you.
Great analysis Coach. I had been struggling the past two or three days when practicing, where even when I was trying to hit a flat serve, it would come out as a spin serve. From your analysis, its because I am either/both 1. rotating too much on my flat serve 2. Being too much on edge at contact on the flat serve.
Awesome analysis and demonstration!!!
Another fantastic video. Thank you Ryan.
Awesome Ryan!
Very nice. It would be great to see a flat vs slice serve both to the T. However I think it would still look very similar to this incredible analysis.
Great analysis! Very well articulated. Couple questions - is the placement of the hand on the grip the same for both serves, also any way you can show us mechanically the most difficult serve by far to hit, the American twist or kick serve?
Thanks so much Gary. Good ? about the grip. Taylor actually uses “every-so-slightly” different grips on his flat and slice serves. I don’t recommend that. Simply use a continental for both and stay on edge longer for the slice. As for the hardest serve to hit, it’s the kick serve where for a right hander it kicks to the right. For full disclosure, I can only hit that well about 1 out 5 times I try it. Thanks!!
@@2MinuteTennis I actually hit my flat serves eastern like Boris Becker, and slice serve continental to get more rotation. Eastern gives me more pace and placement control.
Great video, Ryan. By any chance, could you do the same sort of analysis with a flat vs kick (topspin) serve?
Great analysis on the detailed differences of the two serves! Especially the body rotation and the arm swing path. BTW, the slice serve you show in here is more for pro, i.e., pronation involved. However, the slice serve of many recreational players is more like a cut of the right side of the ball, a sort of supination, not pronation. Maybe some pros also use that way. Could you please make a video on that kind of slice serve ? Thanks coach and Happy New Year
Though many people “swear up and down” that they supinated when hitting a slice serve its impossible. Film yourself hitting what you feel is a supinating slide serve and you’ll see that it actually doesn’t happen.
@@2MinuteTennis I actually had a feeling recently I was only doing that supination, i.e. cutting the ball when serving, not hitting forward. But it was literally impossible to do that with the same speed I was hitting the ball, it would be extremely painful and destroy your arm, because your elbow would stretch out with full speed.
It’s only possible if you already open your racket strings going towards the ball. If the racket head edge is leading to the ball and you supinate you’ll miss the ball or hit it on the wrong side of the strings, geometrically.
Also want to see a video of giving directions to the serve from the ad side. I wonder how to hit a cross serve from the ad side, if I consider that the phase of the racquet gives the direction of the ball.
Also nice to see in both serves: the leg drive starts early and he gets out of the knee bend even before reaching the trophy position.
Yes. Opelka, dimitrov, and roddick do that as well.
I got this. The phase of the racquet will decide the direction of the ball. Giving directions to the serve is well understood. Do you think it is possible to hit a flat serve which can go to the cross corner of the service box?
love ur vids. You might wanna rename to 6 to 9 min tennis
Haha I think I’ll keep it. Facebook isn’t a “book of faces” and they did pretty well. Thanks for watching!!!
Hi Ryan, thanks for the excellent analysis! Just a question about the different body positions. It seems like the racquet swing path are more or less the same between two serves. And the major difference is in the direction of the racquet face at impact, i.e. flat: more squared up, slice: more angled. I see McEnron had some extreme coil for his slice serve. But Federer has virtually the same body motion for his slice and flat serves. Just wondering why the more coiled body position can help slice serve. Thanks!
Great question. The more coiled position helps keep your body sideways which is critical to swinging more to the right.
Ryan, there is a slight camera angle difference between the two serves. The flat serve camera is closer to the T. The slight angle difference can account for some of your observations. In general, most pros will try to disguise their serve intentions and not give it away with the body position. Where I think most pros will differ is during the swing path where there is more supination for the flat serve and that's what you pointed out but not in that term. But that's fine because there is just little time to use that information even if you can see the difference. Also, you can serve slice down the T on the deuce side but that really doesn't accomplish anything because the ball will spin toward your opponent, giving him an easier ball to hit. I've never seen an ATP pro do this but it's used by WTA players who have no kick serve. And it's also rare to see a flat serve hit wide on the deuce side as that also doesn't accomplish that much. In general, all ATP players can handle a flat serve on the forehand so I haven't seen it used there but I think I've seen it on the WTA. However, for amateurs it might be good if your opponent has problems handling fast balls on the forehand side.
You try to measure an angle on a flat serve down the T, and claim that the angle would be the same on a flat serve wide to the deuce court or to the body in the deuce court, but show no supporting evidence. Then you show a wide slice to the deuce court and claim the angle would be the same with body or T slices - again w/o evidence. And for the ad side?
Thanks for watching!
Sorry. Waaaay too technical. Nobody watching has this much racquet control.
Me