None of You Understood Black Panther...(2018)
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
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I have been wanting to make this video for 4 years.
00:00 Bad Takes Montage
01:05 Why I ever became a UA-camr in the First Place
07:08 A short history of Black Panther in comics
12:30 The environment leading up to the film
28:10 Breaking down the movie's themes
59:45 The film's most inexcusable flaw
01:10:03 Reconciling the good with the bad
Thank you to L.O for guest edits
Supporting edits still from @NeedlessNick
Some other content for further learning
Black leftist criticism of the first film - • Whose Black Panther? T...
An overview of Pan Africanism - • What is Pan-Africanism?
Patrice Lamumba - • Patrice Lumumba | The ...
Afro Futurism- • Afrofuturism: From Boo...
The Divine 9 - • The Legacy Of The ‘Div...
Jack Kirby was a poor Jewish kid in depression era New York City. He faced a lot of anti-semitism and that's part of why he worked to include minority characters and anti-racist messages in his work. Today some people code him as white, but he faced a lot of ugly stuff as a Jewish man. Including neo-nazi death threats. All this to say his empathy comes from a real place, and he was ahead of his time in always trying to champion and push healthy diversity in the work he did. Also when someone asked why he created Black Panther he said something like "no one was creating black characters, and black people read comics, and not even I was creating black characters, so I had to." By all accounts a super woke guy who punched nazis.
Not even death death threats from neo-nazis, he got death threats from actual 3rd reich nazis too and fought overseas
Not just neo nazi threats. Dude was a WW2 soldier doing reconnaissance
Well known story, but Kirby supposedly inspired Captain America. I've heard it told different ways, but as I remember it; some self proclaimed Nazis showed up at the Timely comics office (precursor to Marvel) trying to pick a fight with some Jews. So the reception called up and urged someone to come down and sort it out. Kirby went down, and depending on who's telling the story, the wannabe Nazi's already left, bailed when he got there, or got beat the fuck out by him.
Contextually, a lot of the original comic guys were Jewish, and prior to the US entering WW2, the level of Nazi sympathy and antisemitism was rampant. People often forget that Captain America was punching Hitler in the face in March 1941, nine months before the White House finally stopped being chickenshit and declared war. While Kirby and all those guys might not share the black experience, they share a history of ethnic/racial trauma.
Sounds like he wanted to sell comics, but go off. If he was this hero you tried to paint him as, he'd have hired black people.
Captain América literally punched Hitler on the face on the cover of his first comic.
Something that a lot of people miss in analyzing Black Panther is the character that Lupita Nyong'o plays, Nakia, and what her role in the movie had to say about the pan African liberation movement. When Nelson Mandela and other male leaders of the Anti-Apartheid movement were being imprisoned and exiled, Winnie Mandela and other women of the moment were the ones who took over leadership and continued the fight. Dr. King and the other members of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference may have been the public figureheads or the American Civil Rights Movement, but Corretta Scott King and the other women of the movement were the backbones and Coretta took up the leadership mantle after her husband's death. Nakia was making the same moral argument that Killmonger was making from the beginning of the movie, when T'Challa was seemingly defeated, she protected the Wakandan royal family, and protected the black panther legacy by stealing the heart shaped herb, and she saved T'Challa's life. To me Nakia represented the women in black liberation movements that do so much work to advance the movement forward while holding down their own, but don't get any of the recognition that male figureheads of the movement get. She is the real hero of the movie in my opinion.
Excellent point!
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist and arms trader. His evil wife was even worse.
Wasn't Winnie Mandela also a notable philanderer and later convicted of fraud charges?
Not to say that she doesn't deserve some spotlight for what she did, but at the same time I see alot of effort to uplift some women regardless of their character or backstory (while also quietly throwing some shade at similar men). And while I get it, I think it is a problematic way to approach these things.
You sound sexist and retarded! African Americans don’t give a flying f$&k about Africa. But somehow this movie is supposed to mean something to blacks. It’s just as trash as the first. The money made from this movie will not benefit the black community at all just like the first one didn’t! Lastly, black women like you taking every chance to speak down on brothers, but want black men to support your ideas! FOH
@schebobo dr.king was also a philanderer but it hasn’t tarnished his legacy…
I feel like M’Baku is a very underrated character. He is a very traditional man that he completely rejects the idea of T’challa being murdered instead he says he was defeated but when he finds T’challa on the brink of death he doesn’t hold grudges and helps him. When he realizes that killmonger is not suitable to be a king he stands with okoye and others to defeat him. I feel like his role is to represent a healthy balance between tradition and progression, he is a man who really values his culture and doesn’t take any disrespect but he doesn’t try to stop progress either which unfortunately many traditional people fail to do. He is a good man who isn’t afraid to change his mind. He was my favorite character in the movie alongside with shuri.
U may wanna read the comics first, He's nothing like how the movie made him to be
@@GTO_CAL I’m specifically talking about the movie version if that wasn’t clear plus I do read comics and I really dislike the character tbh even his name “man-ape” leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I’m not black so it isn’t my place to critique this. I just love how they were able to revive this character and give him so much nuance about tradition and progression.
This is a fly take on MBaku. He's a dreamy idealization of black men.
I actually felt like T'challa himself was kind of placed in that role, as a compromise between tradition and progress. They pretty explicitly had him alternate between supporting and rejecting tradition in accordance with his own sense of justice, and they juxtaposed it with others who sought to use tradition purely as a means to preserve the status quo of their power structure. Of course, you saying that M'baku is in the same role makes a lot of sense thematically, given that one of the first scenes of the movie sees him challenging T'challa for leadership. If you think of the characters fighting as the embodiment of their ideals, it's actually a good metaphor for T'challa's growth as a character.
Facts. But just like this vid, the narrative is being pushed that Black men have failed Black women. And it’s gonna take Black leaders to get us out of out situation. Men are the leaders. Not the women.
As an African, I can say Black Panther was the first time I saw a Hollywood film make an effort regarding various African customs. There was certain language, clothing and behaviors that are unique to certain tribes and only those who’ve experienced it will recognize the effort. I felt seen for the first time in a major Hollywood film.
As an African I too appreciated the efforts made. But the accent bothered me because it still kinda sounded like the stereotypical 'African' accent.
@kiarieray5975 that can't be the only movie, and it's fictional??? Sarafina???
@@paulgayle3582ok you got me there.
You felt seen? 😂😂😂 we don’t need to be seen please.
@hzlkelly why not? I'm asking in all earnest.
Incredibly brave of you to admit you were a fan of Nostalgia Critic
Tbh I gotta show love to Nostalgia Critic. If you pay attention you can see his influence on my content.
Nostalgia critic has lots of pros and cons but definitely one of the most influential film UA-camrs. You can see the influence especially on some right wing leaning film channels
NC essentially changed UA-cam and film criticism in general.
Doug & co. get a lot of hate (and much of it is VERY warranted) but their influence in the online film critic sphere spans far larger than most people give them credit for.
I loved the guy around 2010. The thing is, it's not 2010 anymore...
His atla review was legendary, and he had some good older work in fairness.
I love that Killmonger line when he says "the sun will never set on the Wakandan empire." Before that, in the ancestral plane, N'Jobu told him that the sunsets in Wakanda are the most beautiful in the world - presumably something he told Erik often in his stories. Obviously, the "sun will never set" line is a reference to the British Empire, and when we see London near the beginning, it's overcast and washed out, with very little color, meant to be a striking contrast to the colorful Wakanda. There's a sense that when a country engages in imperialism - when its "sun never sets" - it loses its vibrancy, becomes something soulless. Erik wants the same of Wakanda.
Throughout the film, Erik is portrayed facing away from the Wakandan sun. When he first enters Wakanda, the sun is rising behind him. When he challenges T'Challa, his back is to the sunset. Even when he visits the ancestral plane, the sky is obscured by the walls of his apartment. Only at the end, when Erik is dying and has given up on his imperialist ambitions, does he stop and actually look at the Wakandan sunset and realize just how beautiful it is, acknowledge what Wakanda would have lost if he had succeeded.
This movie has so many layers of themes and symbols that we could dig down into it for hours and not mine it all. I love it for that.
Thank you for pointing this out, I say while tears are forming in my eyes
Wow. I genuinely did not notice that. Nice catch!
The sun never sets on my empire was said by Charles V because he had colonies in Asia, America, Africa and Europe.
On that note, I love that the first scene we see him, he "liberates" vibranium, but then steals a mask that isn't wakandan, just because it looks cool. He's got the rage, but he doesn't have the empathy to apply his anticolonialism to others than himself. It's things like taht that make me go "wut" at the killmonger was right crowd. The movie is pretty good at showing that he isn't just a good revolutionary who engaged in random acts of violence: his ideology is fundamentally flawed from the start, and the movie shows it well.
But probably not well enough, since there still are people to put killmonger on a pedestal.
@@maximeteppe7627 I thought the mask was Wakandan, but just not made of Vibranium. Maybe I missed something. It has been a bit since I watched the movie.
But yeah "Killmonger was right" has never made sense to me. Maybe the idea that Wakanda shouldn't hide themselves, but not the part where he wants to conquer the planet.
This was the single handed BEST synopsis of Black Panther I’ve seen. Your channel satisfies a need for intellectual analysis of all the things I notice that I feel most people don’t!
Yes. Like he said, a lot of people were not ready for this movie. I think that most people just wanted entertainment. They didn't want to think. They wanted to see themselves without seeing their complexities. Who wants to be reminded of the plight of being black when you live it everyday. We were going through some racial trauma and tention when black panther came out. So it was nice to go to the movies and see ourselves in a better, more regal light.People wanted to take a break from their surroundings. They didn't want anything thought-provoking. And some people just didn't want to go that deep.
I'm too white to get what he's saying but goddamn was it still hilarious.
Weirdly, one of the challenges to Killmonger's goals in the movie that stuck with me was when Martin Freeman's character, one of the few significant white characters, reflected on Killmonger destroying the flowers that gave them super strength and made the comment on how he was doing what they had taught them. Like how you said, he was coming at it from a place of neo-colonization. His plan and mindset would have him repeating the same pain and issues would propagate the same cycle with new masters.
Egalitarianism in response to colonialism is a fantasy. So called democratic societies are essentially totalitarian in the sense that there is only the illusion of choice and liberty. Even the US has a pluticratic origin despite the immense propaganda to the contrary.
Kilmonger had to clean house to right the ship. In doing so he had to keep power close. Eventually governance can be established and power can be shared by the masses.
It's so wild how Killmonger using CIA destabilization tactics is just outright text and people miss it.
Yes is a beautiful potrayal of how a mind that doesn't full escape from the idea of hierarchy and colonial mentality still works for it. He wanted change but that change was just a change of power not a change of the system.
I heavily disagree that T’Challa is boring in the film or the MCU.
T’Challa is completely defined by his compassion and although he’s very serious, he’s supposed to be kingly. He carries himself with stoicism and charisma, but keeps his composure and intelligence because that’s what he was raised to do.
The people around him are allowed to be more vibrant in a way because T’Challa is their rock. He exudes both strength and kindness. Truly the best display of masculinity I’ve ever seen in a film.
Chadwick Boseman played him with such a wonderful poise and warmth that no one else could have brought. His kindness comes all the way through and I truly do believe that is important.
EXACTLY,
He was the the dorkiest character in his own movie. Cool in all the other MCU stuff.
@@theironsheik6322 What's wrong with being dorky? The part where he froze in front of Nakia when he came to get her in the beginning of the movie was dope. T'challa in his movie was unsure of himself, had just became king. Captain America and thor all had 3 movies of character development to get to the point where everyone loved their characters. Sadly, T'challa won't get that arc but that's not to say he wasn't the rock in his movie. Hence why they couldn't recast him and didn't want too.
I agree, completely. We could have the conversation about like, his place as black elite in his own society, but i think something that maaaybe FD overlooked was how t'challa and wakanda as a whole was looked at by the world (a poor, backwater african nation not worthy of respect) and that T'challa's kindness in the face of such white supremacist scorn speaks to a very particular core of character that you really dont see in cis male characters often, and certainly not with the grace and vulnerability as chadwick's t'challa.
This may be a bit of a reach, but the way you describe him reminds me of how Aragorn is characterized in the LOTR books, which is quite different from the Peter Jackson movies.
One of the aspects of Blank Panther that I think most people didn't get was the Afro-futurism. This is again, a big blockbuster Disney movie, and to see the most technologically advanced society in the world not depicted in the usual western convention of shiny chrome, labcoats and suits and ties, but instead in traditional African colors and dress was just awesome. So much of our modern conventions of how we dress or how buildings are designed or just how our society looks comes from a European sense, and it was so amazing to see Blank Panther just completely step away from that in a blockbuster movie.
Yeah I absolutely agree with you and love the look of the film
Very good point
And this is why you should be weary of anyone being dismissive w/ the “iT’s jUsT a ReGuLaR mArVeL MoVie” take.
Its such a unique aesthetic too i can't think of anything similar
@@benjaminjenkins394 agreed
When I think of this movie I still get emotional. Seeing so many different expressions and takes on black beauty really got to me. Falling in love with Nakia, literally seeing a confident man stumbling over himself in the presence of a black woman... She isn't an object or a sex symbol. She isn't quiet or submissive or pliant - she calls him on his shit and is sure of herself in a way that overshadows all his wealth and power. It was the first time I ever saw reverence for a black woman that had nothing to do with her sex appeal. It didn't feel like a stretch or someone trying to make something happen- it just was. She was right there in front of you, and she was simply the most beautiful, compelling, and interesting person you'd ever met. You wanted to please her and make her proud because her good opinion mattered to you, not because you hoped to get something from her. I believed it. I felt it, and felt connected to it in a way I didn't know was possible.
Seeing so many variations of black female beauty... It made space for all of us - it made womanhood feel like an us thing, even though that's never been a thing for me. I'm a mixed, neurodivergent, enby who has always struggled to feel like I belong, but I left with a sense that there was a place for me. I'll never forget it.
The way you explained the battles using black fraternities is absolutely brilliant
Had me dying😂 (Yo to the good Nupes who find this comment👌🏾)
So funny 😂
It was nice
This movie made me go to therapy because it made me realize how much self hatred I internalized as a Nigerian boy. I moved to Texas as a teenager and I always had this thing in me that thought there was something wrong with Africa and it was down to the people, our culture, our way of life but then after watching this movie and nearly crying without being able to explain why, I went to therapy and then spent the next year and half reading so many books about Africa and its colonial history. I’ll always recommend the first book I started with: How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney, that book was written in the 70s but it’s a must read for anyone interested in black liberation
facts💯i had a similar story grew up in DEEP south & as i got older i had 2 step back & realize jus how much shii i had internalized jus from bein around white people so long💯im gonna look in2 dat book peter idk if u read "the curse of willie lynch" but thats tha article i 1st read dat relly open my eyes 2 wats relly goin on🤔👀
You might want to look into the rapper poet writer speaker Akala, he breaks down on a ground level a lot of the misinformation around Africa
@@waff6ix I'll check out that book, thanks for the recommendation.
@@PeterEhik np bro💯its not a book its a series of essays / articles written in 1707 like 15-20 min read💯wats relly krazy 2 me is tha author was willie lynch & da shit he was sayin in 1707 (keep in mind america literally was not kreated until 1770s) is still happening in 2022😳&& it breaks down EXACTLY how white people figured out how 2 keep us slaves MENTALLY
The same. They really don't teach us any good about Africa in the US.
Hearing Killmonger's character be explained as "he's saying some facts and speaking about direct action, so you start to think maybe he's not so bad - and then you are forcefully reminded that he is from the manosphere and thus cannot be trusted" is the most hilarious, easy to get explanation about this character so many people latched onto because they were starved for interesting villains with understandable motivations.
Basically, this. Honestly, we have plenty of real-life revolutionary examples to draw from. Killmonger is a radical revolutionary from Oakland who randomly murders a woman for no reason; Huey P. Newton was a radical revolutionary Black Panther from Oakland who randomly murdered a woman for no reason. Newton killed a 17-year-old girl named Kathleen Smith for calling him "Baby," a childhood nickname he hated. Another Black Panther, Ericka Huggins, stated in 2007 that Newton raped her repeatedly and threatened to harm her children if she told anyone. So... the audience sympathizing with a Killmonger type but overlooking the ways in which he's genuinely bad are quite concerning.
just looked it up, there was no proof or trail for the death you mentioned. @@howlandcrowe9807
Maybe people aren’t informed on Newton bad history I never knew about this until your post about his past.
@@chardonnay5715 did you even look into it? Like at all
@@Charlii931603 no I was simply pointing out that people are not always informed about the wrong side of history because they rarely mention that in documentaries or books. I was mentioning that to say give people grace for the things they do not know.
Hearing you describing Black Panther brought me back to the feelings being in the theater the 1st time. The feelings I got felt like finally being home after being lost. Specifically around the challenge scene. Seeing the culture presented that way just felt right.
I gotta admit, seeing all those people doing the "Wakanda forever" salute near the beginning made me nearly tear up. It's such a simple gesture that to many can mean so much more than just a movie reference.
It's beautiful really :)
We also see the two characters, T'Challa and Killmonger striving to make their fathers proud even after those fathers were tragically taken too soon. Another bit of similitude in Killmonger and T'Challa's journeys was how both of them held their dead fathers' bodies the same way and with such devastating grief.
yes yes yes
Another great thing is the disconnect and the reject both have for their fathers as adults(for different reasons) after idolizing them in their young ages.
☝🏽😁
I legit went back to school and finished my computer science degree because of black panther. It sounds crazy but before then it felt impossible to break into tech, depsite all the black folks who already existed in it. I also was someone who started in the arts prior to becoming an engineer, so my career “love language” so to speak was different .
However, once I saw the film, it felt like a love letter to me and many others who needed to “see” a world of tech, made by black folks and built FOR black folks.
Ive since taking that inspiration and working to turning it into work you can see, hopefully some day, work you can feel and touch.
Im even going back to creating my own art inspired by afro futurism, etc.
I honestly love this so so much for you 🥺🥺🥺🥺
I'm so proud of you. That's so wonderful to hear.
Congrats to you that’s beautiful 🐐
makes me tear up, thanks for sharing. Much love to you, and good luck with your studies/career
You post your work anywhere? I'd love to see it.
Been binging all of your videos. This was a really good deconstruction and the way you reconnected things back to historical events and real structures showed me a POV I don't see much. This video taught me a lot, and I think that's your goal from what I've seen.
I don’t think i’ve ever heard another youtuber or content creator say the phrase “I appreciate you trusting me with your time” and that really meant a lot to me. It honestly reminded me of when a tattoo artist says something like “thank you for your trust.” It really shows how much you appreciate people making the choice to watch your videos and we do that because you’re fantastic at what you do, man. Thank YOU for the passion and providing education and entertainment for all of us.
I’m forever grateful that black people celebrated Black Panther the way we did.
It’s not a perfect film (no Marvel movie is) but so much about it was exceptional. The cast, the costumes, the ideologies, the politics, the character work, and just the collective black joy we got from it.
Black Panther was the definition of “You just had to be there”. We showed OUT and we knew how special it was at the time.
Ironically, that’s part of the reason why it makes me so sad when I watch it in a post-Chadwick Boseman world.
As a black writer of science fiction and fantasy, Black Panther was a strange moment for me because it made it feel like there was really a place for afrofuturism - not just aesthetically, but also politically - as a force within genre fiction. Legitimately looking at the way they brought Wakanda to light in a way that was really uncompromising was such an impactful moment. Like you said, no Marvel film is perfect (hell, no film is, with the notable exceptions of Paddington 1+2) but it was an amazing moment in film history.
I worked at a theatre when it came out-I had never before or since seen so many black people in the theatre at one time. It was apparent to ANYONE around at the time that the movie was special, even if it wasn't perfect.
@@williamedge5130 lmao no one will rememder this movie, it will be swept under the rug of time with the rest of the marvel movie trash
@@bobhill9845 okey dokey
ong it really was a "You just had to be there"
I have so many nostalgic thoughts and it wasn't even that long ago
also, I hope no one engages with the troll. Just block em
I love how the description right now is just "I been wanting to make this video for 4 years" 😅
We love you and your videos. Good to see your comment.
fr
I cried through your entire analysis. I am not even a crier ... but this is the second time your videos made me bawl. I may come back and attempt to articulate my feelings. But for now I just want to once again say THANK YOU. You are doing the lord's work
As a first generation Ghanaian American on my father's side, I cried every time Killmonger got a little loud or emotional 😂. It's true that all black people outside of the continent have a sense of longing at some point in their life but to know your parent is from there and didn't take you to that greatness is a great heartbreak. It was truly a comforting movie for the community in such a worldly way. Like a grand looking glass for the entire diaspora.
I feel you, that disconnect from the culture (like still not knowing your mother tongue etc) is painful. You dont know how to approach it, and you feel sort of disorientated emotionally. Killmonger was such a good character.
@@sunflowersamurai10 you see other people appreciate or celebrate their polish or German or Irish or Italian heritage but for most black people in the US our only heritage is slavery anything beyond that was lost to history
@@mateohodge6998 i'm lucky that i'm from uk diaspora so i still have ties to my roots, but US poc have it rough man, im not even sure how to approach that as a pan african.
Yeah, Although I am mostly black and I don't know anything about my African heritage and instead I just celebrate my partial German heritage through my Dad's side of the family because that Is the only heritage I know much about. I can relate to you because I feel a sense of longing and it bothers me that I don't know my parents African mother tongue.
I've actually never felt this sense of longing. Curiosity over where my ancestors came from on the continent? Yes. But longing...no.
I cried at multiple points during this video. Breaking down the difference in how T'Challa and Kilmonger saw the ancestral plane just broke me. It feels so true to the black American experience. And revisiting the loss of Chadwick Boseman. It's something that I don't think about often, but it truly was a wound in the community. It hurts so so bad to think about losing him. But I'm so grateful what he gave us.
I was also moved to tears at some point. The fact that it came out years ago at this point makes you sometimes forget how powerful the impact of it was. The criticisms and nitpicks you hear often dilute the richness of the initial experience. Yes, the movie had problems but my goodness did it do the things that needed to be done. It will always be my favourite movie.
for example, at the end when killmonger says 'a kid from oakland believing in fairytales'. you are the kid from oakland. there is darkness at the beginning of the film and then you open your eyes into a fairytale about wakanda. then the disneyfied version of oakland etc. you are supposed to realise that it is all a fairytale and that it is up to you now. the hard work is your job. go out and build a better world. it ends by showing how difficult that is. what is buying a few buildings in oakland going to achieve. where can you really start. but go forth and prosper is the message
I always cry when I think about how we lost Chadwick Boseman. Especially the rhetoric leading up to his death. How they kept talking about how skinny he had gotten, only for us to find out he was suffering.
@@shara5985 I'm so glad I didn't hear any of that when it was happening. I wish he hadn't either. :(
I really love the Ross commentary because I had such special affection for Serkis and Freeman themselves because they were my favorite actors as a teenager and I thought that was why they seemed so present. That interrogation was the framework of the major trailers, and even though I went into the movie theater expecting to be distracted by them I still found it a genuine challenge to ignore freeman specifically because I felt he was constantly in the frame for absolutely no reason when I was trying to watch the movie (where Serkis in contrast was disposed of the second he became unnecessary). I just thought it was something that I was noticing in particular because of personal bias, and I didn’t expect marvel to not throw some random white dude in the mix to take space on screen in the second half in the movie. Realizing it was more specific than that actually settles a lot of things for me
The pictures at the end of the funerals kids were having for Chadwick broke my heart, thanks for the informative review
"A man who taught himself to speak politely, when what he really wants is to scream." Fuck, that's a good line.
I think t'challa is the best part of the movie. As a first gen African American I love the arc he goes through from being the "golden boy" (i.e. the family pride, the one that became a doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc) to doubting the very foundation those family/familiar values are founded in. Hiis outburst to his ancestors make me cry everytime cause I've had to had that same discussion with my very traditional-conservative parents. And he let's his co stars shine! He's a reactionary character that is constantly challenged and changed by his friends/surroundings. and the benefits of that shows because look how much the cast is loved.
Yeah he really felt like he was representing us first gen kids who hold the pride of our culture and the hopes of our ancestors on our shoulders
Yeah I feel like the criticism T’Challa got was always unfair. I mean, realistically-speaking, the man never got the chance to really grieve his father (and probably never will depending on the direction Wakanda Forever takes in its story). He quickly ascended to being king and within a few minutes, he’s dealing with internal and external threats while also trying to understand his role as king and figure out how to best lead Wakanda. And to top that it all off, he discovers a long lost cousin who was abandoned and has legitimate beef with not just him, but his entire kingdom as well. I’m actually impressed T’Challa didn’t just tell Killmonger “screw it, take the whole thing - I’m done bro!” If anything, T’Challa deserves more respect than people were willing to give him imo
Thank you
Your observation is incredible, i really liked tchalla, imagine having to go through all this at the same damn time, finding out your values, your father and your ancestors were trash and wrong when you always thought you was the good guy is not easy..despite all his trash education he decided to do better, he tried to spare killmonger life and he never was selfish just misguided..he's definitively a good king in a mad kingdom..
You're spot on with what this movie is all about! Here's a quote from the animated miniseries "Black Panther" from 2010:
T'Chaka: "I understand your frustration in dealing with a Black man who can't be bought with a truck full of guns, a plane full of blondes and a Swiss bank account, but please, hold on to what little class you have!"
Not long after uttering these words, T'Chaka was assassinated.
You said something at 43:30 about confusion regarding identity that caused me to think about my black friends in high school many years ago. My school district was overwhelmingly white, a mixture of suburban and rural, and was also relatively well-funded. My two friends, just by virtue of being in the district, had to interact with a very white crowd despite sometimes having an understandable desire to seek out similar people, and this undoubtedly shaped their identities.
Here's the thing: I remember them being in this godawful sort of crossroads, and they would be teased by some people if they acted "too black" but also teased by other students if they acted "too white." Is this a common experience, this feeling of being some sort of double agent? I can't imagine the hell it would play on a person's psyche having to reconcile those competing criticisms. I think about my friends Brien and Karsten and I often regret not asking more questions to try to understand things better. Wherever they are today, I hope they're doing well.
Damn this is hey thought provoking this is what I meant by his revaluation if this movie brought a new realization and critical thinking to a lot of people who didn't have that before and I think it's awesome
amber lights by luka lesson is a spoken word poem that explores this really well
I had to go through this at school, but being mixed race, also had to go through it with a lot of my family 🫠 luckily it wasn't much of an issue with the fam on my mom's side that I'm closest with, because that aunt also married a black man and had mixed kids so we were less "alone" in that sense... but it was like a constant otherness with my dad's side of the family on the occasions we saw them. I have the most vivid memories of my baby cousins staring at my mom like she was the first white woman they ever saw 😂 and at the time it was kind of funny in a way, but all these years later it's... yeah.
I think Killmonger was the first time I became truly aware of how many people couldn't recognize the difference between dismantling the system and trying to replace who's on top. I was just so shocked that everyone was so convinced that Killmonger was the way to go. I think Readus 101 was the only youtuber I saw at the time point out what was wrong with Killmonger's ideology.
I'm glad someone else noticed, *although* there are *some* points that's killmongers was right about. But, overall I never thought of him as a hero.
I never agreed with Killmonger. I thought T'Challa's plan of outreach centers was the best way to go (but not to reveal what Wakanda has). They should have quietly reached out and brought people up and make sure they are well educated and have the tools to make a better tomorrow as a diaspora.
I think there's an important distinction most of what he says is true but, in the words matt colville "does he [killmonger] seem like he's the kind of guy who'se going to hold free elections after the revolution?"
I mean, honestly his stated plan is create a bunch of bloody revolutions and then install himself as emperors of the world "the sun will never set on the wakandan empire" and all.
No matter how bad the world is another british empire is not what we need.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin Although I didn't agree with Killmonger's methods, I do agree with his overall perspective. However, I don't agree enough to discredit T'Challa's stance either. I believe they represented extremes, but together, I feel they could have made a deeper impact.
You have a hard time finding UA-camrs you watch that disagree with genocide... Wow
I never needed this movie to be perfect.
As an African, the last time Hollywood gave us a positive representation in my lifetime was in Lion King. As actual animals.
Coogler made a product that was way superior to my personal expectations. There are things that aren't working for me at all. But we gotta start somewhere.
Edit: T'Challa can't be the worst part of this movie, because Everett Ross exists.
We're not animals though bro. So Lion King is not the best representation for Africans and Africa. It's just a nice classic but useless production honestly.
@Is Swampus did your hand gave you blue balls or what?
@Is Swampus uuh if it isnt another soft ass white man trying to show how much a man he is by talking mess to people he wouldnt try irl.
Black Panther never gave contemporary Africa a good representation. It only showed an Africa African-Americans long for. The only moment they show Africa outside of Wakanda, they instantly represent it with civil war, child soldiers, poverty and the oppression of women. This nostalgic view of Africa that is "renewed" by Afrofuturism is fuelled by the distance Black-Americans feel with what contemporary Africa is...
Side note, but the lions in Lion King are clearly white if they were humans.. lol
@@Brakke3 Oh I'm aware, and I agree. But as I said this is Hollywood. Expecting more is setting yourself up for disappointment. That machine only works with static storytelling devices, and the rare progress we can get is always closer to a happy accident than anything.
Poitier was a man ahead of his time. He was an incredible film director as well that put folks to work. Buck and the Preacher with Harry Belafonte is just one example.
I took their decision to share their technology differently. It’s noted in the film that the rest of the world is catching up. By sharing their technology, but being (almost) the only source of vibranium, they’re setting themselves up to be the main source of the resource and able to extract tremendous wealth out of that. Wait too long and there’ll be too much competing advanced tech that isn’t vibranium-based.
When I learned F.D. was a teacher it all kind of clicked for me. This fall I submitted my apps to masters of education programs in big part because I want to emulate the gifts F.D. expresses in his videos. The care, attention to detail, intellect, research skill, charisma, and precision of language on display in his videos is an inspiration. I hope to be half the teacher I imagine he was in the classroom. This video was excellent as always and unlocked new lenses through which to view not just Black Panther, but any major creative work. Cheers F.D. you're a national treasure
Edit: as I was typing this I just got accepted to my Masters lol surreal coincidence!
congratulations!!
Oh my god that's fantastic!!
Congratulations! FD would've been a dream teacher for me during any part of the education cycle. It's the passion for me- we can tell how much he cares about these topics. Good luck in your studies and educator journey!
Yo congrats!!
Congrats!🎉
The scene where Killmonger's father trys to reach out to his son, and realises what he's become. Always saddens me, because it seemed like he also realised his own failure and the cycle of anger continuing.
Best scene in the movie
Most of the people in this comment section support the circle of hate and want to kill like he did
The film was a truly enriching experience. Your analysis of it was highly educational and enlightening.
The way you used the Devine 9 to describe the story is hilarious I’m over here dying laughing because the tropes are so accurate
Killmonger's actions were definitely out of pain and PTSD. And I feel like a lot of us who didn't grow up with money felt him deeply when we realized he was deprived of so much wealth, culture and beauty due to his father's own motives
Killmonger's father was just serving his country. He didn't do anything wrong. It was T'Challa's father that screwed them.
They were also justified considering the entire nation of waconda is only propped up on monopolizing a natural resource that it uses to shape and encourage citizens to certain ways of being. For all their progress and technology advancement it still abuses authority to maintain that structure.
Shame that he died a coward, blaming his actions on others, refusing to try and live without hate, choosing to leave Alex Jones style with a quote that did not describe him. Only where he came from.
@@larkohiya Wakanda was a weird nationalist state
Yeah but he’s evil. They make it clear near the end that killmonger is a murderous sociopath who just wanted to rule
When you were comparing the Black tropes to frats, I realized that this could have benefited from a little perspective from others, both in the continent and around the diaspora. As an African (Ghanaian), I saw them as representations of stereotypes of different tribes, generations, and socio-economic classes. For example what you see as an AKA, I see as a bougie Yoruba auntie. I saw Killmonger as a symbol of the way African Americans tend to idolize Africa but, when they come, they tend to be Diet Colonizers, blending in more like white expats. (Actual colonizers in the case of Liberia). It may have made the video too long and less focused tho, because I could go on and on.
I agree. It was so disappointing seeing so many AA Marvel fans side with Killmonger when he literally wanted to colonize all of Africa, and committed cultural genocide in Wakanda. He also doesn't view women as people and worked as a mercenary for the US government. He is literally an imperialist. Having a dead dad and a sad backstory doesn't excuse you of those things. They also pretend Nakia doesn't exist in order to pretend like Killmonger was actually making a point.
I think that's an analysis you can bring to the movie. I'd love to hear that perspective!
@@amarachiisaac9420 Interesting. I'm American and I didn't sense colonialism in Killmonger so much as vengeance. He's very similar to the Namour character in that way. He wants everyone to agree with him and join his team. If they don't, he will destroy them. Both are heartless but Killmonger's motivation was different than colonialism which was a resource grab of the utmost heights. I see Killmonger no different than the typical warfare between factions.
@@BearingMySeoul Killmonger claim that he's going to save Africa by taking over the entire continent is an imperialist mindset that he probably learned from his time in the military. After he defeats T'Challa and becomes King he's already gotten his vengeance. Personally, I feel like this is what makes his character a villian rather than anti-villian. I don't think it's really up for interpretation.
@@amarachiisaac9420 Well, it *is* up for interpretation unless you wrote the movie. I can understand the argument that Killmonger was an imperialist, but I agree he's not a colonizer. He never demonstrated any intent to 'colonize' the rest of Africa. He was never after Africa's resources (cobalt, diamonds etc.), nor did he motion for Wakandans to occupy other African countries. So colonizer isn't the right word, but imperialist sure.
I'll stop writing on the 1 year old video, but it just has so much good in it. So many of your points would make me join a whole conversation. And this is really helping me find some kind of feverish peace in between careers, figuring out who it is I am and what I want. Peace! Take care and good luck in whatever you do, gonna obviously still be watching all your videos when I'm on UA-cam
Hands down the best breakdown of a movie ever. Whatever you’re earning from this is not enough. Having a brilliant mind is one thing, being able to articulate your perspective is another. Much love and respect King. Also fitting that I’d see this video at a point in my journey of acknowledging that the “good” in the manosphere is not enough for me to continue consuming. All the best to you and yours fam! ✊🏾🙅🏾♂️
As a woman in STEM since way before it was even called that, the character of Shuri in the original Black Panther spoke to me the way that T'Challa spoke to you. I spent a lot of my youth being told I couldn't do what I wanted to do because I was a girl, seeing my talents minimized (pretty smart... for a girl), and having few role models in contemporary media. Seeing a young smart woman being treated seriously and her talents recognized instead of minimized in Black Panther was just so inspiring and I'm glad that she got her moment in WF. Seeing her interacting with IronHeart actually made me tear up a bit.
My wish was for Shuri to be the next Black Panther without her legitimacy being provided by a guy but by her own talent and I got it. You guys got your wish too -- T'Challa has been recast in the form of his son.
I doubt that wholeheartedly. STEM fields are about 51% female (last time I checked). That doesn't result from a culture that oppresses women into not pursuing science.
@@zekayman Try being a woman in the 60s thru 80s with gender non-conforming interests and get back to me.
Things are better now for the younger women but I'm a senior citizen now. Not to mention, the US isn't the only place in the world. 51% of woman going into STEM isn't true worldwide.
I’m a women of color and felt the same way of Shuri. I was happy to see a lady scientist of color no less :)
@@zekayman That's kind of a misleading stat. Women make up a large portion of healthcare, but not other STEM fields. Women make up 74% of practitioners and technicians in healthcare, but only 15% of engineers and 25% in computer science. And even in health, only 38% of women are surgeons. A lot of this has increased pretty heavily over time, too, so keep in mind that while younger women might have an easier time, that wasn't as common even 10 years ago. 40% of physicists are engineers but in the 90s it was 22%. Plus the stats are different for different races and ethnicities.
All my stats came from the Pew research center, btw.
@@cararazma2407 That doesn't mean women are being barred from the rest of STEM. In fact they get the most scholarships and career opportunities nowadays.
The ancestral plane scenes are what I always point to when I talk about why I like BP. T'challa gets the plains of Africa, Kilmonger gets the block in Oakland.
It's fucking heartbreaking.
Oakland was his imagination but if you Look deep through the windows Ancestral planes were far away deep in the purple haze
45:16 Wow, that was possibly the most relatable comment to black issues I have ever heard. We aren't rich, but we live pretty well and when I see what happens in the US (I don't live there) it literally tears me apart. There is an urge to do something accompanied by a feeling of powerlessness, which leads to guilt. It feels like looking from a ship at sea while the mainland burns in the distance.
A few years ago one of my roommates was telling me about how great Black Panther was and we sat down watched it together. I'm white and my former roommate is black. I watched the movie and left feeling distinctly, I can't think of a better word than disappointed. The main thing that I couldn't get over was the movie's ending and what felt to me like an implication that all would be right in the world now with T'challa back in power. I thought it was such a simplistic ending for a movie that wasn't afraid of engaging with a real and complex problem.
Neither me nor my roommate really had the words at the time, but I think our differences may have come down to our differing experience due our respective races. As a white person, a lot of the parts of the movie which did a really good job of capturing black experience did not connect with me. I remember talling my roommate that I felt like Wakanda didn't actually have good system and wouldn't really chang things, because the resolution of the story didn't come from an systemic change which took place, but from the growth T'challa as character. It was Lord of the Rings logic (Good King, Good Country) applied to real world issues. Looking back i'm realizing I didn't give other aspects of the story enough cfredit, largely due to not recognizing them, but I still find the ending un-satisfactory.
One of the puzzling aspects of the movie, is T'Challa's collaboration with the CIA. You're right that the CIA played an integral role in the downfall of many socialist regimes in newly independent Africa such as Patrice Lumumba and Kwame Nkrumah. Thus, having the CIA as part of the movie, particularly to stop Killmonger, missed that critical piece of African history and made it difficult to embrace the movie in its entirety.
I'd say the key is that in the movie, it's the CIA that has to work for the Wakandans, not the other way around. They're even outright working against one another when they first run into each other in the casino. It's still problematic, but I can see how they tried to turn it around.
The CIA and Dept of Defense have literal script editing power if a studio wants access to them. Most mainstream films are garbage propaganda for the empire.
@@snorpenbass4196 I hear you, but I think the CIA should have been left out given its sordid history in Africa. They have always been an open enemy to the African liberation Movements and if we view and understand Killmonger as a radical representation of Black liberation, then the CIA fits well into its historical role.
@@theironsheik6322 Yup I watched a video a few years back about Marvel and military propaganda. Almost every movie of theirs since Iron Man has been made in collaboration with the US military
Not mention in most Black Panther stories Everett Ross was an expert of subverting African nations and studied the best ways to take down Wakanda. Having that character in the movie, let alone an "ally," was a shit move.
I JUST got through educating my daughter last week about the symbolism of vibranium in Wakanda to the exploitation of cobalt in Congo. Glad you’re talking about this film. Can’t wait to see the new one.
Colton!
You mean how vibranium can literally cure so many problems but wakanda keeps it to themselves and still live like fucking cavemen for some reason!
Oh i didn't even think about cobalt specifically but more so those hidden resources in Africa in general they haven't exploited yet. Whether it's precious gemstones, gold, or other precious metals and oils and Including the soul itself. But still the same theme. Of exploitation of Africa's resources and trying to capitalize on it for themselves.
@@_..D It’s about time more countries took the Botswana approach to mining. Even if it gets lambasted as “socialism” just for maintaining control over resources.
Couldn’t happen in Shell’s colony in Nigeria unfortunately.
@@wildfire9280 Wait
. Doesn't capitalism says you owns your means of production?
I just spent a semestre teaching this film at a uni in Japan. I'd done quite a bit of research about it, obviously, but I still would have liked to see this video beforehand. Not to worry, it'll come in handy next semester.
Challenging as it was (all the references the students could not have known!), it was also fascinating to see how they understood the film and how they interpreted a lot of the moral questions I'd stop to ask before we saw how they got resolved. I expected some of their views given their cultural, social, political and historical baggage but I still wasn't ready for some of their opinions and perspective.
Anyway thanks for this video and all the other ones I've been binge watching when one came on my recommended list just the other day. So happy I chose to watch it. Love the depth of your analysis and the flow, pace and logic that you use to present your thoughts and material. 🙏🏽
Early into the video you thanked us for being here, i wanna say thankyou back. Thanks for being here, for providing the perspective that you do and educating such a wide audience of people with the great stuff you put out.
The black frat and sorority references in your breakdown of the movie is pure gold 🤌🏾😂
I will be 100% real: I did not understand most of what he was calling out there, but I could not stop laughing the whole damn time.
@@submortimer lol it’s black college references, to understand it makes it 100x funnier 😂
@@ronny_ron2168 that is what I assumed, but you know what they say about assuming lol
I've watched that section multiple times because I understood every reference and it's one of the most hilarious things I've seen on UA-cam lol
I'm white, so I obviously didn't get the nuances that you talked about when I first saw Black Panther. I just knew when I saw this in the theater that there was something special about it, and it went beyond representation. That was evident just by watching my black friend and coworker in tears next to me. I asked her what made her cry after the movie, and she just said, "It's a lot. I don't know how to explain it."
Thanks so much for helping me to understand just a bit better.
Edit: typo
i feel this so much. i was also 15 when that movie came out so definitely a lot went over my head and its nice to finally have explained to me what elevates this movie from great to the "experience" that it was for a lot of black people
Ytttppl created the "nuances" thru centuries of systematic racism, resource deprivation, and socially engineering a two societies where one parasitically feeds off the other to great detriment.
I think of this all the time: that AMERIKKKA is so racist, it doesn't matter what region you go to, it's a given that the yts will have a completely different accent from blks despite being minutes apart.
I used to be really into archaeology as a kid, and I always had a very high opinion of Africa because of all of its achievements and fascinating culture. If I hadn't had those interests, I could see how our culture in America would paint a completely different picture. Anyone with African heritage should feel immense pride for it. It being called the cradle of civilization is an understatement. There is clearly something very special about folks from this region; as if they have more innate multigenerational experience with the art of being human. Their ability to engage the world with speech, art, etc. is second to none on a per capita basis. Think about how globally influential black people in America are, when their numbers are relatively so tiny. It's amazing.
i love that maybe about 20 or so minutes in, at your "most replayed" spot, and you give a play-by-play of the entire film, but entirely in code, that's above me. You just drop into lingo/jargon/code. I look forward to catching up. First video I've seen of yours, and it's so far been excellent. The black lens here is very useful to me, who often misses underlying subtext or significance in media directed outward, like the trans lens of the matrix.
I really hope you do a video on Black Panther 2. It'll be interesting to see your take on it and whether it addressed any of your concerns with the first movie. Especially if the CIA issue was done even slightly better or too subtly. Also, the consequences of T'Challa's decision gets addressed something I hadn't expected and really hope gets followed through in future installments. I really love your videos!
I know Afrofuturism only as aesthetics, but when you described it as "Black people existing in the future" it made me realize so many things about sci fi I haven't considered before and it kind of blew my mind 😅 Thanks
same, its wierd to be made aware of how unaware you were isn't it?
So what would afro cyberpunk be?
@@decidiumz175 Black people in cyberpunk
@@BeakerButch420 ooo yuh, i definitely need to read works like that
The happiest thing I ever saw was a little white boy wearing a Black Panther costume out of season in a grocery store. The kid just wanted to dress like his favorite superhero, and that the fact that they weren't the same race didn't bother him one bit. That's just so heartwarming to me.
I was basically that kid in middle school. I look back on that time fondly and I still have a framed okoye poster on my wall
If a white kid loves Black Panther he's gonna grow up to be something big to someone cause that kid has amazing taste for goeshardium.
lmao that was me as a kid wanting to be Mace Windu
@@hopekeeley2122 Christian Okoye? He was one of my idols as well
@@joshgorsky5224 okoye from black panther but I looked up your guy and he seems pretty cool too
🔥🔥🔥 I liked to think that the end credit sceen was a passive threat. Like, we're gonna open our doors, but know that we can and will flex if or better yet when yall force our hand
Man, great breakdown. I had recognized a lot of the points you discussed but you took it deeper than I realized it went.
My entire family went to the movies together to see Black panther when it came out, my sister flew from Hawaii to South Carolina to be there. It was the last movie we all saw with my aunt that passed away a few weeks before Chadwick. I'm going to be very emotional in this one.
as a south sudanese-american, i loved this movie so much for its themes. i loved killmonger and his rage, and growing up in the US made me resonate with his father. i was relentlessly bullied and hated by black americans bc of xenophobia, and my parents witnessed certain stereotypes in the workplace regarding black americans. but we always discussed that african culture was taken away from them.
in south sudan, scarification is used as a rite of passage into adulthood, but also represented classism like slavery vs elite. i liked seeing many aspects incorporated.
me and my family loved the themes it represented. it really called out the issues people of the diaspora dealt with, and the alienation africans impose.
south sudan has been the worst country in the world for almost 4 generations now, with genocide and war being prominent for decades. but africa had many resources and thrived before the scramble for africa. i imagined that africa could be wakanda if it wasn’t exploited.
one think that bothered me was seeing the xenophobic people i grew up around wearing unauthentic african wear, and people acting like wakanda existed when many countries there are dealing w famine, genocide, war, etc. i have never been to my country bc there’s a good chance i could be raped or killed, but i hope that one day it can get better so i can go back.
i love black american culture and it’s origins. it makes me respect them a lot, and want their success, like killmongers father. although there was a loss in their culture due to the diaspora, i would love for people who’s a part of it could go to africa to learn & identify with the culture there, without having to choose their specific ancestral origins.
i’m mostly love killmonger though, and how his role in the film really called out the feelings that black people all over the world felt regarding the impact of colonialism, but especially how it called out african people and their role in perpetuating division. there needs to be more respect for black americans and their issues and how they overcame and continue to grow from.
i just wish there was a wakanda that we all could go back to, and feel the pride, safety, and success we deserve. africa has many conservative traditions, but the one that is very common is the emphasis on community. we are very community oriented and hospitable, and i think that many africans would love to have more brothers, sisters, aunts, and uncles. these are terms we use to refer to everyone regardless of biological relation. id love to build our family together.
This is really beautiful sentiment. I wish one day we all can go home together. Lowkey as an African American made me want to 😢. There is so much hurt in the diaspora that I wish that we can recognize in each other... together and grow from it. I wish we can for the future generations throughout the diaspora to build a strong and independent African continent far away from the preying and exploitative hands of white supremacy and colonialism. We can finally be free... all of us together. That's a nice thought. 🤎
🇸🇸🇸🇸🇸🇸
Excellent thoughts, beautifully articulated. thank you for sharing. i have much respect for you
one day and I will do everything in my power to make that a reality
Beautifully stated and lovingly received Sis, from a southern born and raised Black woman. ❤️✊🏾
Couldn't agree more with your final conclusion. There's a concept I learned at college that perfectly describes the feeling you mention. Resignification. Despite Hollywood, and Disney of all companies making this historic movie, there were actual individuals completely compromised with telling a story that made a tremendous effort to at least tip the scales regarding the status quo, at least when it comes to black superheroes. No matter who you are, or where you come from, I believe, you should pay homage to the people who even with the barriers that were put in front of them to make the film, decided to do it to the best of their abilities. By not enjoying it, when you know you could, you're also missing out on the job of some amazing people, and they deserve to be recognized.
Bruh i have been binging all your videos, you are amazing dawg and I appreciate everything you do💪🏿
As a belgian woman, your intro taught me more about Patrice Lumumba and the Democratic Republic of the Congo than my history classes. It's really shameful how little we are taught about this so important part of our history when our colonialism lasted for so long (from the 1870s to the 1960s while our country exists since 1831, it lasted SO long)
Does the Belgian school system cover King Leopold's Belgian Congo colony at all?
@@Owesomasaurus Id doubt it, hell my teacher did an illegal technically by teaching me about the Tulsa Race Massacre circa 2013.
You should look into Leopold's barbarity in Congo if you don't know about it already.
@@Owesomasaurus Well we talked about it a little but not really as much or as in depth as we should. Now there's also the limitation of what the official program of the ministry of education tells teachers what to teach and the number of hours they have to teach everything. With limited time a lot of them prefer to take more time to talk about WWII than our dark colonial past. With the global BLM movement that happened in 2020 there's had been discussion by the minister of education to implement a real program about our history in Congo but I don't how or if that happened since I've finished school a while ago.
@@eokwuanga Oh trust me, even if they're not taught, there's some "details" that just everybody knows. But also a lot more barbaric actions I had to learn through the internet when the global BLM movement in 2020 happened.
As a Congolese person who is also a huge marvel fan, I’m just so heartened to see the great Patrice Lumumba get spotlighted in this analysis of Black Panther, I haven’t finished the video (a part of me wants to savour it) but in moments like this, I’m just so damn grateful for the bloody World Wide Web man! 😭🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
For real....
As a Zimbabwean it was a strange feeling to see the late R.G. Mugabe be referenced as essentially a cautionary tale. 😂
Yes, it brought me to near tears.
I remember watching it in theatre and I have changed a lot politically since then. At the time I just figured it was a pretty cool movie with an awesome soundtrack, now I have a much more in-depth view from looking through an African Americans perspective. Definitely going to watch sequel tonight! You really don’t disappoint bro, love the videos all the way from New Zealand!
So well thought out and put together. Much love to you brother! You’re fighting the good fight ✊🏾
Seeing WF made me realize how important and complex the original BP movie was to African Americans and Africans, I’m a mestizo, meaning half my heritage is Indigenous Mexico and although I’m white passing, something just felt different about seeing an aspect of this beautiful culture being represented in a Hollywood blockbuster with a cast of actors who are actually indigenous who are also activists back home, now that is a game changer. Even back in Mexico, you only see morenos(browns) as the help or overall poor people, Tenoch’s(Namor) biggest role prior to WF was as a drug dealer in Narcos. The only famous Indigenous actor Mexicans knew was Yalitza Aparico and she was absolutely shit on by the media with the usual woke casting bullshit.
But now, in a Hollywood blockbuster, the people who have been historically underrepresented and oppressed, are an advanced nation that can go toe to toe with another powerful kingdom and they managed to keep their native heritage after avoiding the death and disease bought by the Spanish? There are holes in the plot and motivation and the cultures weren’t kumbaya prior to European colonization but being the main character in a Hollywood blockbuster feels like such an accomplishment and historical event to a group of people that never expected to be at the center of pop culture even if it is for 15 minutes.
sorry but what is AAs ? ( english isn't my first language ) - after thought , it's probably african amercians
@@clarissat867 Double A batteries, of course.
Nothing ever changed for the better because of a Disney movie.
Well said
@@clarissat867 5 months late, but I'm assuming given the context that they were abbreviating African Americans
I saw Black Panther on premiere night at the Chinese Theatre in Hollywood and its truly a movie experience I will never forget.
The sound the audience made when the movie opened up in Oakland, the woman who shouted "you know that's right!" when Okoye lays the law down against her man, the looks people turned out in. Truly a magical movie experience.
Watching this, and all of the amazing light you shed on the black experience of the film, and then seeing those young boys memorializing the death of their superhero... that is just completely crushing to me. I am in pieces. I didn't have anyone that I looked up to like that, I didn't have a hero that I held in my heart, but right now experiencing my reaction to these images, I think a part of me wishes that I did. I so sorry for those boys... Thank you for making this video.
I haven’t watched black panther in a while, and i was planning on rewatching it soon and then watching the new one (i haven’t yet). Glad I can go into it with a fuller understanding of the themes! Thank you so much for making this video! I haven’t watched your videos in a while (been pretty busy, but i’m now in some classes where i can watch videos while working, so i’ve been watching more video essays now), but I’m currently catching back up.
As a fellow Patron of this guy, I can tell you, you are all in for a treat on this one.
I lost the info to my patreon account and I’m too lazy to go find it so I’ve accepted that I will be giving unc monthly payments with no extra benefits until I eventually get a new card lmao.
This is a fantastic analysis of Black Panther. As an African living on the continent (Ghana), the pride I had watching this movie was immense. Especially with the beautiful depiction of African culture.
Also, I really loved how you touched on the divide between Africans & African Americans. I've heard fron relatives in the States about how they were treated poorly during their early years there, not by whites, but by African Americans. It changed once they started picking up the accent and talking more like them 'cos then you wouldn't see the difference. I also experienced something similar during' The Year of Return' celebration in 2019, when a lot of African Americans came to Ghana. They smiled and laughed with us but you could see that some of them (most were cool) looked down on us from the way they talked in a condescending manner and the kind of questions they asked. I didn't really mind 'cos I know it's from a point of ignorance so I educated as much I could and also learnt from some of them.
I wish there wasn't a divide and the only way I can think of bridging the gap is encouraging more African Americans to visit the continent if they can and stop taking in what the media shows you as fact. The thing about us Ghanaians is that as long as you respect us, it'll be reciprocated and we welcome everyone.
Again, loved the video, loved Black Panther. Can't wait to watch Wakanda Forever and more power to you.
I'm sure it was fun for the Americans to find out that their ancestors had been sold by yours.
@@Lodatzor Africa is made of many nation states that existed far before Europeans came calling for human cargo. Not every nation participated in slavery and some who did, didn't sell to whites, only other African nations.
But you knew that right? You just made that comment to troll people. 😏
@@BearingMySeoul of course I knew that, although you should understand that African nations today were almost all created by Europeans. But this person said they are from Ghana, and that their friends were treated poorly when in America. I'm reminding them that pre-colonial Ghana was a massive player in the slave trade, so it shouldn't be surprising when the descendants of slaves are a little cold towards the people who sold them.
Reminding people about uncomfortable history isn't trolling. It's educating.
Think not? Then of course you should understand that white people come from many different nations, some of which purchased human cargo from Africans, some didn't, and the vast majority of them were not involved at all, so when you bring it up to them, that's trolling right? Right? You knew that right? 💋
I still like black panther it’s a good film. These reviews twisted my perspective of the film. After a rewatch I still find it good. My only real problem with the movie is the fake death of black panther… like no one ever thought he was actually dead.
@@BearingMySeoul ummm... I agree with OP that there should be more unity and I like the way he delivered his message (a lot more than Lodatz did). Lodatz wasn't wrong. There were some African tribes that did sell to the white Europeans. Their reasons might have been out of greed in the beginning, ignorance or a way to protect their own kingdoms keeping the European powers at bay, the point is some of them still took part and acknowledging that should not be seen as somehow siding with the colonizers or as a jab at Africans. I don't think blaming anyone for what our ancestors did or didn't do will change anything but we should learn and do better.
Thank you for taking the time to show Black Panther through your lens. I think it is helpful to understand this film with additional perspective since I am not viewing it from the inside.
I do remember being frustrated from some people I associated with that hyper focused on individual lines.
Summarizing Black Panther as a College Frat war is a stroke of genius. Love your work.
I'm a first-gen Pakistani American Muslim. I can't find a way to put into words all the things this video made me feel. The complex interwoven threads of commonality and distinction, knowing about cultural legacies and interchanges, thinking on my own personal experiences. I valued this video a lot. Thank you
Same as an Indigenous person
You say Okoye's role is crucial to any black movement but it's her adherence to tradition that allowed for the growth of Killmonger and undermine her whole kingdom. Allowing skin folk who aren't kin folk to enter is dangerous to any movement
This is the crucial paradox of all radical movements. You do need people like Okoye when there is an N’Jobu or Nakia front facing/leading. But it can be a long time before real life Okoye’s turn against the Killmongers that often takeover or are those who take charge as the old guard changes over/is killed/dies, if they do.
On a more immediate level, though, I saw her point. The praetorian guard cannot have a say in who is the leader, or the society will disintegrate fast. It may be the quickest way to destroy faith in leadership.
Can you imagine the utter chaos that would result if the secret service ousted any president they didn’t like?
@@Laecy LOL. Maybe not the secret service but the C.I.A. and FBI and other intelligence agencies have influenced who is chosen in US politics and the chaos isn't as life changing as people would think. But I understand what you mean. But if she had suggested a naturalization law to observe him or even him have to form a coalition to be granted position to fight as seen prior in the film or no weapons since it wasn't a formal fight ceremony but more of a backroom one or other numerous options killmonger could've been better better. But despite that the character is great and I understand why the character did that as well as it not bothering me how they did it in the film. Just an observation
Yo, when i saw the title of this video, i felt exactly like we did when we saw the original black panther trailer... "This could be good, hopefully, at least it's ok..." When you started it off with historical knowledge i should know, but didn't, already a win.
But when you turned this into a 'School Daze' interpretation of the movie...
LEGENDARY.
Walking into work laughing out loud.
Gotta find people to share this with, you have a done a work here 👏🏽
really grateful right now to have access to your knowledge and this kind of context!
Killmonger wasn't upset at the existence of the boot, just who the boot stepped on.
When education is not liberating, the goal of the oppressed is to become the oppressor.
No i don't think this is a good reading.
@Bri10 Do you mind elaborating?
becuz tha reality is whoever wear tha boot not gone take it off & walk barefoot wit us💯instead whoever got tha boot use it 2 trample their path over every1 else💯🤷🏾♂️
I would say, whether or not he was upset at the existence of the boot, he chose to wield the boot in revenge. Whether you think that's good or bad is for you individually to decide. But I think in your explanation, you lose a lot of meaning behind his actions.
Should be noted that Christopher Priest himself admits that he created Ross' character as a self insert for white audiences, it's something I remember every time he's on the screen in the movie. Also there's a pretty memorable scene from beginning of his run of the comic where T'Challa is in New York and a lot of black members of the community gather up when they realize who he is and there's a speech he gives to the tune of '"I'm not YOUR king". Considering he talked with Coogler in production I think these are important details to how the character in the movie is analyzed, but you pretty much nailed it without all that.
It was disgusting to recognize that Ross was supposed to be a self insert character for people with my lack of melanin (not me, per se, thanks to disability).
Honestly, I hated how hard they stripped Wakanda's xenophobia in this movie, it's such a defining characteristic and one that makes it such a nuanced fiction country and people. They watered down T'Challa and Wakanda a lot in general tbh.
@@gummyboots It's a movie with limited screen time, they were already tackling a couple of subplots. Xenophobia doesn't seem like something that will be a major plot point of the first movie in a marvel franchise, hopefully they do tackle it down the line but expecting them to do so in the first movie is dumb af imo
@@Demi-ec2fw Personally, I read it in the subtext. You can't be hardcore isolationist and not be xenophobic. Just because most of our character are somehow "some of the good ones" in that respect, doesn't mean it doesn't come through. personally I read Daniel kaluyah's character as motivated by xenophobia.
@@maximeteppe7627 it could be pro-me (wakanda) without being anti-them (non-wakanda) and be purely isolationist and nonxenophobic but that would be rare. It would have been interesting to have had at least one character be more purely xenophobic as inevitably in a population some one or a group of people would fit within that cohort (thinking of Jonathon Haidt's the righteous mind). Fear, surprise, anger, sadness, and happiness get portrayed so why not disgust as well?
Being so hyped or passionate about media, no matter how much time passes, often makes me fumble my words or outright say too many things I don't even mean. You have wonderful control for explaining nuances of why this movie slaps, while having contagious enthusiasm for what you're analysing.
Thank you, young sage! This visual essay was brilliant!
I loved everything you said. I truly appreciate the tribute at the end, to our beloved Chadwick Boseman.
For me, this movie was and still is EVERYTHING! Yet, this breakdown enhances my past and future experiences with watching it. I’ve shared it over and over!
The comparison between the Greek pledges and the characters caught me by surprise! Although I did feel the “Q” in M’Baku, I hadn’t identified the other frats. This was a genuinely thoughtful video!
So proud of your generation! ❤✊🏽❤️
I think part of the reason Ross was presented as a benevolent CIA agent was because the production needed military funding (which is a common occurrence with these Marvel movies) and in order to do that they needed the CIA to be represented positively. I feel the movie was nuetered. That UN speech was icky. T'challa should have pulled up and told the UN that he's gonna help Africa become independent from the European and American hegemony and if y'all gotta problem we can go. But of course, that would have been too thematically consistent.
The Mouse would've burned Ryan Coogler's house down😂
@@fangal12 with him in it
There is no censorship in America.
*A light goes around you.
There is no censorship in America.
They haven’t had military funding since iron man 2 I think I know for avengers 1 they lost it because it was critical of the military with the shadow government etc and since then they use national guard
Ross was also supposed to be a mirror image of claw. While Claw was racist and exploited Africans and face it probably anyone else who wasn’t white. Ross while a government agent didn’t want to exploit people he was just the ambassador to Wakanda
"Yeah, the CIA spends a lot of money trying to hide the fact that they have a long history of overthrowing brutal capitalist dictators and supporting democratically elected Communist governments" -D. Trump and Q from Qanon
Being black and living in Japan, seeing this movie was a real experience in so many ways. One side was personal where the topics of the plot really resonated and pulled at me. The others were from a third party perspective. Seeing it with a friend who is from New Zealand, but Indian and could resonate with so many of the themes as well was a huge bonding moment for us. Then seeing the "I didn't get it" reaction from so many of our white friends from Australia or USA really, REALLY drove it home how some people just can't connect to stuff if it doesn't explicitly target them.
Even my Japanese girlfriend at the time could catch a lot of the heavy tones related to the movie and pro-Africanisms portrayed...
White folks never get it unless it's 12 years a slave type of movie. It has to be visceral suffering and they can go into their white man's burden role.
I think there's just some things white people can't get. I got some, but not all, as a white Aussie. And the bits I did relate to (like the radicalism vs status quo, or the respectability of elitism themes) only really came through because I'm a minority in other ways. That being said, even if I didn't relate to all of it personally, I'm still educated enough to understand its importance. That's the really depressing thing that came to light I think- white people may not be able to relate, but they still should be educated enough to see the themes and why they're important. But it's very clear that many aren't. It's not taught.
White people in the US just don't have the historical understanding of everything from slavery, to Jim Crow, to black liberation, to the Panthers, to the decline of the Panthers, to colonialism; this all might as well not exist to many white people. Of course this movie would whiff for them. The movie (while deeply flawed, obviously) addresses all of those things. Black history is erased in the US and it's disgusting and embarrassing.
@@katherinemorelle7115 I wouldn't generalize an entire group of people like that.
@@shizzledink she literally said that some white people are able to relate, at least partly, because of being marginalised in other ways or because of being informed on the topic. She's white herself and said she got parts of it. A straight person would not pick up or relate fully to a text exploring the gay experience, but if they were otherwise marginalised (e.g. Black, trans) they would be like, "Ah, yes, I've seen that in my life to an extent as well."
I can't wait to hear your overview of Wakanda Forever. Me and my wife are both white but we lived a long time in Tennessee and saw the poverty and inequality. I've studied colonialism and various liberation ideologies/movements and I definitely understood those themes in the film. Both films resonated deeply with us and your insights on the first film are very eye opening. It is much appreciated, thanks!
I nice slap in the face sure does sting don’t it?☺️
I haven't watched the movie but your analysis made me highly emotional and now I'm looking forward to watching it. Thank you for everything that you do.
I think it's important to note that yes Black Panther was invented by white men but they were white Jewish men who fought in WW2. Their relation to whiteness, especially in the era must've been very different compared to how we think about it now.
+2 i was going to say something similar-the creators of marvel comics being descendants of anti-semitism and the holocaust is meaningful!
prob is they’re more racist than your average white person lol
jews aren’t white
Jack Kirby didn’t fight in WW2
@@kaydgaming you can literally just google it and see
I tell this story every time I'm in a conversation about this movie, but for me, as a white person living in the US, it was the moment I really, TRULY understood what this movie meant to y'all. It was my second time seeing the movie, this time with my girlfriend. We were exiting the theater after the post-movie bathroom trip and got approached by this Black couple. Apparently my girlfriend had met the woman in the bathroom, but I didn't know this at the time. "Hey," she said, "can you take our picture?" We were standing right in front of the huge like 5 foot cardboard standee, the one with the logo and all the cast and everyone. My girlfriend said yes, of course, so the two stood in front of the standee and then couldn't remember exactly how the Wakandan salute went, which arm went on top or something, so I helped them since I had seen the movie twice now. The smiles on their faces as they stood there saluting in front of that cardboard were fucking beautiful. I'm literally tearing up a little bit just remembering the moment lmao.
No the movie wasn't perfect and yes it was a piece of Hollywood media, but I also choose to remember the joy it brought to so many people. We can quibble all day over the bad CGI but it just doesn't matter compared to those two happy Black people in that theater.
Thanks for helping me, and I’m sure many, to fully understand the themes within this film. I’d seen it a handful of times before. But now I really get it, and can appreciate the positives much more
Wow this was super dense and impactful. Thank you for the video! Would also love a video diving into the Sydney Portier trope as I grew up watching his movies with my mom 😅
I've felt a little envy, but absolutely no resentment, just a little sadness that almost physically hurts that I can't really be a part of my African culture.
As a Puerto Rican raised in mainland America I know how you feel
This is the best way I've seen it said. It hurts. It hurts so much.
I'm Mexican American. My great-grandma on my mom's side was an American with Mexican ancestry. She set the chain of my family's Americanization. She grew up in the early 20th century and became a freewheeling flapper. I can't imagine the discrimination she probably faced. While my dad, who is from Mexico, was never really there for me. Never took the time to teach me Spanish. It's like 'yeah I could learn more about my ancestry' but that anger and sadness you mention doesn't make it so easy.
Moooood ❤
I’m of South Asian (Pakistani) heritage, but I’ve been born and raised in the UK, and I often feel like I’m in this weird liminal space where I’m either “too brown” according to society, or “too western” according to family.
So now I’m just… here, I guess. Feeling like I lack any sort of identity or culture beyond just being a brown trans woman living in a society that doesn’t want to make space for me
@@Dinahhh I’m really sorry to hear about your struggles and for what it’s worth this random stranger on the internet accepts you ❤️🏳️⚧️
watching this movie in Africa( lagos nigeria) was an experience people dressed up in their best ankara, face paint, coral beads, bright colours and gold, edo people were going crazy because they showed the benin artefacts i didn’t matter if you watched marvel movies it was such a fun and memorable time
I found you from More Perfect Union, I'm a white guy in England this was really enlightening and gave me a lot to think about, you're a great host. When I watched Black Panther I was amazed by Killmonger, he's written like a hero, he's got the heroes backstory, I talked to a friend of a friend about it and he just dismissed it, I should point him to this.
You’ve mostly covered all the things that drew me to this movie from the first viewing to the latest (so many views, so many different angles). The Black Greek walkthrough was GENIUS.
I get the vibe that, similar to Chadwick, Michael B Jordan also understood the impact his role had, and the way it would resonate with so many people. Ironically, I think he would have made an amazing successor to the role of Black Panther.
Killmonger was a racist sociopath but ok
I remember going to see it in cinemas. I went to an international school, and my class was majority Asian (mostly Indian and Korean). All of us enjoyed it (although the Korean dialogue got a huge laugh from the Koreans!), but there was one kid in my year from Ethiopia who I don't think had ever seen anywhere in Africa depicted that way on screen. He was over the moon about it, I don't think he ever went to another costume event without cosplaying as T'Challa, (hell, he made his own excuses a few times!).
I was just happy to see a new take on a sci-fi world, but I con't imagine what it meant for him.
that is so adorable
My professor used this movie to cap off the semester of his History of Black Film class. We started out the semester with Within Our Gates, and jumped all over else to much of Sidney Poiter's films, some Tyler Perry, even Bamboozled to highlight our discussion of minstrelsy and stereotype.
Having seen this movie after several months of being in this class... It hit way different. The fact that even today people refuse to engage with it on a political and historical level is legit heartbreaking. I'm very glad to have found this channel and taken that class, because now not only am I able to engage with these films as politics and history, but I'm better able to apply that to ALL media.
Thanks, FD.
I would love to see a part 2 about the 2nd movie. I think the level of complexity would be amazing to explore, especially with the new characters and their dynamics.