I seem to remember that the angles should be the same. As in, if the transfer output centerline is 10 degrees down then the pinion should be 10 degrees up. the only exception to this is a double joint on one end will let you have that end at half the angle. or if you use a cv joint it also changes it. If you point the pinion at the transfer output they won't be the same. And your going to have vibration and slip yoke wear.
Awesome. Thanks so much for making this video. Really hope you have opportunity to video the re-gearing of the axle. Love that North Face jacket by the way.
Another shade tree double check would be to run string lines parallel with the rear rotors to indicate against the front end (probably rotors also). Yes, those new rear brakes look very good.
Great video. An old guy told me once...to do exactly what you did and then divide the number you get in half. That way both yokes have the same angle in them. But in opposite directions. This will help eliminate any vibration you get rolling down the road at normal driving speeds. So...in case he was correct (he was most of the time) and you find yourself getting vibrations...that's why. :-)
+Matt Love That is absolutely true if you don't run a double cardan joint on the drive shaft. You want the angles to cancel each other out or one of the U-joints will turn at a different velocity than the other...that's bad... With a double Cardan, you eliminate this problem and can just point the shaft directly at the T-case.
We have A ZJ with about a 3-1/2 to 4 inch lift we are installing we are using Rough country lower control arms and stock upper arms, and we moved the front springs to the rear. Do you think we should change the upper arms to raise the pinion shaft angle? I see that you set yours at about 10 degree. How much lift does your jeep have?
just curious why is the axle on top of the springs instead of spring over? doesn't that loose you some height due to the leave being lower then axle height?
Do you need limiting straps or something that will limit downward travel? Seeing as you had to lift the axle to attach the shocks, it seems like it would be possible for you to unload the springs enough that all the weight would be hanging on the shocks, which could be bad for the shocks.
I am led to believe that if you pitch the diff back much more than 5 degrees you will starve the pinion bearing of oil, yes the crown wheel does throw some oil at the pinion but not enough to prevent a pinion bearing failure. You already said the diff is laying back 10 degrees. I hope all goes well, love the break conversion. cheers
So I'll let the youtubers tell me that I'm wrong, but I believe you made a mistake in setting the pinion angle. You mentioned pointing the pinion directly at the output shaft of the transfer case. With a leaf spring rearend, I was taught years ago to make sure that the rearend pinion and the output shaft on the case should be the same angle. Using a digital angle finder (or equivalent), install a yoke on both the pinion and the output shaft, find a machined flat and take your angle reading. These two should be as close as possible. To your defense, you did mention a slip yoke eliminator. This will allow your set up to work, however, you still could have premature u-joint wear.
Humm..how did he come to the 10degree angle🤔. He used a piece of board for a straight edge. No board is that accurate. What should the Angle be? And were both left and right side measured before welding perches on. Hopefully it was squared.🤔
Don't you want it to be off by 2 to 3 degrees so that the ujoints will actually roll? You might end up there after you install your slip joint eliminator.
Yes, I will be installing an SYE. I think I mention that in the vid, but you guys are right- if you aren't putting in the SYE, you want the angles to match at the axle and the transfer case. This effectively "cancels out" the angles and eliminates vibration. I may do another video more specific to drive line angles and clarify. Thanks guys!
I am too old to be into 4X4 anymore. But I learn a lot from these videos. I am slooowly working on adapting a GMC 4 bag air ride suspension system to medium duty truck application. It is much bigger and heavier than rock crawlers but the dynamic geometry is the same. And because it is bigger and heavier I want to get it right the first time, which alas, is unlikely. By right I mean correct pinion angle and no drive line vibration. Torque, load, and long hill pulls (on-highway) is what I'm going for.
would have been nice to see where you pulled your angles from .. .. Did you go flat on the pinion gear and the face of the output shaft .. 150 ft lbs u bolt torque speck ( at last on my dakota .... Check the torque spec's ... ...
i dont get it man why go leaf under when your doing a custom axle and spring set up? leaf over and all you have is the u bolt and axle tube sticking down thats the bear minimal to get snagged on rocks look at the top of your axle and think if it was upside down all that ground clearance ud gain the down side is it will lift the truck and change the shock location but normal shock get re set up anyway just my thoughts grate job tho
+gremlinkiller I agree, and if I was making this build as a crawler, I'd definitely go for the spring over. This is going to be a daily driver and get used a lot on the farm. I want to keep it as low as possible and still clear the tires. I also don't want problems with axle wrap, etc. Seams like everything's a compromise when you need to keep decent road manners on a 4x4...
Heyliked your video but I have a question: (might be outing myself as a total jeep/Dana outsider) Why is your axle mounted above the leafsprings? I've only ever seen this done on a lowrider conversion. Don't you lose groundclearance especially where your bottommost leaf sticks out etc??
hi Tyler, i was told that using a axle from a ford explorer will bolt on a jeep tj , what do you think as i'm all new to this, as my future project Richard
Why are you welding like that? You're getting ZERO penetration. You have to hold the trigger down the entire time. The heat from your weld needs to stay hot to penetrate. If you are stacking tacks you get a very weak weld.
7:30. I literally just made that mistake in my 78 bronco. I put some new leafs in it, got everything tightened down and good to go. well, about a month goes by and just this morning I was pulling out of my driveway and I heard the driveshaft drop out and was like "what in the f*ck" look underneath and the axle rotated damn near 90 degrees. it broke the slip yoke and the tore the ujoint in half. makes me wonder if I sheared the block pins as well :/ anyways, like he said. dont fuck around, make sure you retighten those ubolts or you'll pay for it later down the road. (or off the road) I got lucky and wasn't on the trail but I doubt anyone else is gonna get that lucky.
Keyboard warrior Hitman actually he didn’t torque them to begin with, he tightened them as tight as he could get them... Torquing them and then checking torque down the road a piece is proper procedure. Each ubolt diameter has a specific torque as they are almost 100% of the time a single-use torque-to-yield part.
If you go check out my intro video to project tetanus, I explain why I decided to stay spring-under on this build, but basically I'm building this truck as a daily driver so I wanted to stay as low as possible and still fit 33" tires. The spring over nets 5-6" of lift which was more than I wanted for this truck.
Wrong. Pinion angle can only be set when the vehicle is sitting in normal position, and the output shaft and the pinion input shaft must be in the same plane, parallel, unless using a double cardan universal joint and then you can point the pinion at the output shaft. Never set pinion angle when the vehicle is jacked up, especially if the front jack stand is not under the front axle. Close enough should never be good enough.
This is not the way to go about this. You don’t even know the degree of you pinion angle. Last thing you want is the pinion pointing directly at the out put of the t case. Hello vibration like crazy!
I understand your thought but that would only apply to a standard 1 piece shaft with 2 single/standard u-joints. If, however, anyone plans to use a double-cardan joint (total of 3 u-joints on the shaft) at the t case (as is common with SYE's) then this is the proper procedure.
I was told the pinion angle was set up by making the rear end output parallel with the transmission output.
Congratulations on getting this far. It is looking really well. Great piece of workmanship. Well done.
I seem to remember that the angles should be the same. As in, if the transfer output centerline is 10 degrees down then the pinion should be 10 degrees up. the only exception to this is a double joint on one end will let you have that end at half the angle. or if you use a cv joint it also changes it. If you point the pinion at the transfer output they won't be the same. And your going to have vibration and slip yoke wear.
Awesome. Thanks so much for making this video. Really hope you have opportunity to video the re-gearing of the axle. Love that North Face jacket by the way.
Another shade tree double check would be to run string lines parallel with the rear rotors to indicate against the front end (probably rotors also).
Yes, those new rear brakes look very good.
Great video. An old guy told me once...to do exactly what you did and then divide the number you get in half. That way both yokes have the same angle in them. But in opposite directions. This will help eliminate any vibration you get rolling down the road at normal driving speeds. So...in case he was correct (he was most of the time) and you find yourself getting vibrations...that's why. :-)
+Matt Love That is absolutely true if you don't run a double cardan joint on the drive shaft. You want the angles to cancel each other out or one of the U-joints will turn at a different velocity than the other...that's bad... With a double Cardan, you eliminate this problem and can just point the shaft directly at the T-case.
im hoping to do some very similar work on a yj this summer, nice video👍
It was nice of you to make a video for your friend Tyler.
We have A ZJ with about a 3-1/2 to 4 inch lift we are installing we are using Rough country lower control arms and stock upper arms, and we moved the front springs to the rear. Do you think we should change the upper arms to raise the pinion shaft angle? I see that you set yours at about 10 degree. How much lift does your jeep have?
Finally got a guy who who explained pinion angle setup so I could understand it
He is wrong.
Really he barely mentioned it at all. No angle finder no mention of axle wrap. Put everything on with an impact.
just curious why is the axle on top of the springs instead of spring over? doesn't that loose you some height due to the leave being lower then axle height?
Do you need limiting straps or something that will limit downward travel? Seeing as you had to lift the axle to attach the shocks, it seems like it would be possible for you to unload the springs enough that all the weight would be hanging on the shocks, which could be bad for the shocks.
monstermafias no because the tires will take up the extra space
I agree. At full droop, it’ll be all on the shocks.
That's normally how it's done by manufacturers.
The limit is set by shock length.
Would you want your shock longer than the axel drop?
I am led to believe that if you pitch the diff back much more than 5 degrees you will starve the pinion bearing of oil, yes the crown wheel does throw some oil at the pinion but not enough to prevent a pinion bearing failure. You already said the diff is laying back 10 degrees. I hope all goes well, love the break conversion. cheers
You'r right
Lot of work! Im ready for a nap now!
How did you move the rearend to the correct pinion angle with the floor Jack under pumpkin keeping pressure on it?
I liked seeing your Wrangler stuff, but this was a good video
+Spearfisher1970 stay tuned, there's more Wrangler videos coming!
Adams driveshaft say generally pinion angle is at least between 2 to 8 degrees...?
So I'll let the youtubers tell me that I'm wrong, but I believe you made a mistake in setting the pinion angle. You mentioned pointing the pinion directly at the output shaft of the transfer case. With a leaf spring rearend, I was taught years ago to make sure that the rearend pinion and the output shaft on the case should be the same angle. Using a digital angle finder (or equivalent), install a yoke on both the pinion and the output shaft, find a machined flat and take your angle reading. These two should be as close as possible. To your defense, you did mention a slip yoke eliminator. This will allow your set up to work, however, you still could have premature u-joint wear.
Humm..how did he come to the 10degree angle🤔. He used a piece of board for a straight edge. No board is that accurate. What should the Angle be? And were both left and right side measured before welding perches on. Hopefully it was squared.🤔
Don't you want it to be off by 2 to 3 degrees so that the ujoints will actually roll? You might end up there after you install your slip joint eliminator.
+Kevin Hornbuckle I wondered that as well. Hoping that he does an SYE so that that won't be needed.
Yes, I will be installing an SYE. I think I mention that in the vid, but you guys are right- if you aren't putting in the SYE, you want the angles to match at the axle and the transfer case. This effectively "cancels out" the angles and eliminates vibration. I may do another video more specific to drive line angles and clarify. Thanks guys!
I am too old to be into 4X4 anymore. But I learn a lot from these videos. I am slooowly working on adapting a GMC 4 bag air ride suspension system to medium duty truck application. It is much bigger and heavier than rock crawlers but the dynamic geometry is the same. And because it is bigger and heavier I want to get it right the first time, which alas, is unlikely. By right I mean correct pinion angle and no drive line vibration. Torque, load, and long hill pulls (on-highway) is what I'm going for.
@@tylerbleepinjeep606 Ever make that video?
would have been nice to see where you pulled your angles from .. .. Did you go flat on the pinion gear and the face of the output shaft .. 150 ft lbs u bolt torque speck ( at last on my dakota .... Check the torque spec's ...
...
So since your pointing your rear pinion at the tc...i take it your going to run a cv rear driveshaft?
+Al Al I'll be running an SYE with a double cardan joint on the drive shaft.
@@tylerbleepinjeep606
Do you have a build on this MJ?
i dont get it man why go leaf under when your doing a custom axle and spring set up?
leaf over and all you have is the u bolt and axle tube sticking down thats the bear minimal to get snagged on rocks
look at the top of your axle and think if it was upside down all that ground clearance ud gain the down side is it will lift the truck and change the shock location but normal shock get re set up anyway
just my thoughts grate job tho
+gremlinkiller I agree, and if I was making this build as a crawler, I'd definitely go for the spring over. This is going to be a daily driver and get used a lot on the farm. I want to keep it as low as possible and still clear the tires. I also don't want problems with axle wrap, etc. Seams like everything's a compromise when you need to keep decent road manners on a 4x4...
Nothing wrong with spring under.
Heyliked your video but I have a question: (might be outing myself as a total jeep/Dana outsider) Why is your axle mounted above the leafsprings? I've only ever seen this done on a lowrider conversion. Don't you lose groundclearance especially where your bottommost leaf sticks out etc??
with a spring under configuration it helps reduce axle wrap.
hi Tyler, i was told that using a axle from a ford explorer will bolt on a jeep tj , what do you think as i'm all new to this, as my future project
Richard
Why are you welding like that? You're getting ZERO penetration. You have to hold the trigger down the entire time. The heat from your weld needs to stay hot to penetrate. If you are stacking tacks you get a very weak weld.
A solid weld may warp the tube.
It never ceases to amaze me all the know how and knowledge people exercise. Then they bust out with the Rough Country parts. SMH
why not relocate the springs on top the axle for more clearance? too much lift then maybe?
Hi,so where did you buy the perches? Are they 3"?
I thought you were going to do a spring over conversion.
nice i just got my shims ill be doing this weekend, its looking good man!
7:30. I literally just made that mistake in my 78 bronco.
I put some new leafs in it, got everything tightened down and good to go.
well, about a month goes by and just this morning I was pulling out of my driveway and I heard the driveshaft drop out and was like "what in the f*ck"
look underneath and the axle rotated damn near 90 degrees. it broke the slip yoke and the tore the ujoint in half.
makes me wonder if I sheared the block pins as well :/
anyways, like he said. dont fuck around, make sure you retighten those ubolts or you'll pay for it later down the road. (or off the road)
I got lucky and wasn't on the trail but I doubt anyone else is gonna get that lucky.
Love the video and love the hat. Great place
why not go SOA????
A D44 with disks. Right on brother.
Is this an aluminum d44?
great vid man. i love those trucks
YES. RETOURQUE OF UBOLTS IS A MUST !!!!!!!.
Keyboard warrior Hitman actually he didn’t torque them to begin with, he tightened them as tight as he could get them...
Torquing them and then checking torque down the road a piece is proper procedure. Each ubolt diameter has a specific torque as they are almost 100% of the time a single-use torque-to-yield part.
Wrong. U-bolts don't stretch after torquing. The guy who lost his axle, probably didn't install his u-bolts correctly, or forgot to torque them.
Why wouldn't you convert it into a spring over while you were under it?
If you go check out my intro video to project tetanus, I explain why I decided to stay spring-under on this build, but basically I'm building this truck as a daily driver so I wanted to stay as low as possible and still fit 33" tires. The spring over nets 5-6" of lift which was more than I wanted for this truck.
Ah, i didnt remember you saying that thanks.
what's the rear disc breaks from?
+greg boyt check out this vid for all the info: ua-cam.com/video/CahvEN-bNYE/v-deo.html
your doing a great job!... keep it up
Wrong. Pinion angle can only be set when the vehicle is sitting in normal position, and the output shaft and the pinion input shaft must be in the same plane, parallel, unless using a double cardan universal joint and then you can point the pinion at the output shaft. Never set pinion angle when the vehicle is jacked up, especially if the front jack stand is not under the front axle. Close enough should never be good enough.
why spring under???
+lukefaceman see above.
+Tyler Bleepinjeep are you referring to your warning paragraph?
+lukefaceman No, there were a couple other comments on why I didn't go spring over. Just wanted to refer you to those.
trigger welding the perches, eh...
+Zach Tarbell "stack of tacks"Hopefully it kept the housing a bit cooler
Dude sounds like Lester from GTAV.
laser..
First comment
Damn you. I always make the mistake of starting to enjoy the vid before my comment. Blast my cap and bmp
Feels good to pop them 🍒
This is not the way to go about this. You don’t even know the degree of you pinion angle. Last thing you want is the pinion pointing directly at the out put of the t case. Hello vibration like crazy!
I understand your thought but that would only apply to a standard 1 piece shaft with 2 single/standard u-joints. If, however, anyone plans to use a double-cardan joint (total of 3 u-joints on the shaft) at the t case (as is common with SYE's) then this is the proper procedure.