Outstanding, as always. Just so you guys know, you have a tremendous fan base that loves and appreciates what you guys do. You owe us nothing, and if you just need to take a break, do so. The fans will still be here when you get back.
Congratulations to the new Eagle Scout! The smaller vessels assigned to the picket stations had another, very important task. That was to rescue and provide refuge to survivors. The presenters are very busy. I had something to share that I felt would be appreciated. The first attempt got no response. I tried again, emphasizing the nature of the message, and it ended up being passed along to the person who would most appreciate it. Bill send me a very nice note thanking me for sharing. They do read their mail!
Best WWII history podcast out there. I love the balance of presenting individual stories with how it fits into the bigger picture. I also love it when you say things like “suck it up“ because this is a hobby and not a breadwinning effort for you guys. As someone else commented, we will be here whenever you guys are able to get the content out. It is very important and excellent in its presentation. Please keep up the good work. I have learned so much.
@waynesmith8431 I set the alarm for 0500 and...nothing. Lol. Made my coffee and checked 15 mins later and there it was with a comment 11 mins before mine. Needless to say I was devastated.
Superior explanation of the whole situation on a given subject. No annoying repetition, No fake drama. I have learned 10 times as much from you guys as compared to the history channel, or any network produced history video
My father served on the USS South Dakota during WW 2 and he would rarely talk about the war. Most of what I learned as a kid about the war I learned from an older cousin. Since I found your channel I've learned so much and also found the reason Dad wouldn't talk too much about his experiences. Thanks so much for what you provide.
Congrats and outstanding, Sully!!!........Bill, while you were in the Academy, i was in DLI, Monterey, learning Korean, prior to the second phase of sigint training, and was reading the same books about Japanese military culture. i needed to, because i was of the opinion to be effective in discharge of intel duties, i can no longer "think " like an American, therefore i have to run my own training (secondary) program by deep diving back into Japanese/Korean martial history, and culture, and then i understood, and on a lighter note, while at DLI, i would take lunch at the best mess in the USN, at Naval Post Grad "down the hill"...i miss the mission, the DPRK is THE "black swan, imho. prayerfully yours. love you guys
Back in the 1970's when I was growing up I used to play war games by SPI with cardboard counters and maps with friends. In one game, War in the Pacific, they had a rule that by late 1943 no Japanese conventional attack with aircraft was possible in the game anymore. I always wondered as a kid about that being accurate and historical. Later in my history studies and in watching some videos later in life I was informed that some Japanese Judy fighters did penetrate the U.S. Fleet defenses for successful attacks. However, those were lone fighters doing solo attacks. So again I wondered up to now whether a Japanese attack coming in low below radar detection could have succeeded in a concentrated mass attack, popping up at the last minute to do their dive bombing. Seeing your AAA slides, with the throw weight through the war graphically displayed, has dispelled finally for me any theory on alternate ways the Japanese could have succeeded in any form of mass attack. Even if they somehow got under the radar envelope to approach the heart of a task force, the pickets destroyers and outlying ships would have visually seen them an alerted the fleet. With all that AAA awaiting them at the heart of the task force there would have been no way they could have succeeded. I'm a believer now you might say. 🙂 One last thing. I remember watching the War at Sea series. They had one great line on a show about the Kamikaze that it was a battle between "Anti-aircraft gunners fighting to live versus Kamikaze pilots fighting to die."
To Seth. Bill, and Jon: thanks for ANOTHER, Stellar, episode, delivered on time, while I was sleeping. It can't get better than that, surely. Thank you all again. I was thinking at about the halfway point that I would need to repeat the class ASAP. There's so much here. I recall after the episode on Philippine Sea, I thought the Japanese Admiral ?(Toyoda?) who had watched much of the battle thinking all of the time that his men were doing well, must have had the seminal thoughts that generated the Divine Wind doctrine. THAT was the end of the road for two year's work to rebuild the IJN carrier air arm? Well. What now?
Congratulations on the new Eagle Scout! To have all three fathers have sons that are all Eagles is amazing! Thank you for putting these on U Tube and congratulations once again!
Guys, its the history, the inexplicable behaviors, the emotions and unbelievable bravery that you present in such truth that allows your audience to emotionally and intellectually understand the full breadth of insanity involved in all out war. The detailed understanding of the war machines involved by yourselves and your guests are simply unparalleled in any medium. Thank you for dispelling the myths and misunderstanding of this war.
Jon Parshall opening statement at the national WW2 museum podcast "I am going to give you a crash course on the kamikaze phenom" which is why I find Jon entertaining.
Twenty -five years ago on the Columbia River at Vancouver, WA was moored an LCI. A tour opened to raise funds for the restoration of the ship. Whilst touring the bridge, I met a former USNR Ensign who was off Okinawa when a Kamikaze struck his ship. It was such an emotional moment, I turned off my camcorder in deference and respect for this Old sailer. He went on in life to assume the helm of Goodwill Industries, turning the financially poor and ineptly operated non profit to what it is today. I wish I had saved his name. Somewhere I have a very short video interview. They were indeed, the Greatest Generation. Revere them NEVER forget their sacrifice.
That LCI is still there! Or at least a very similar one, it's now on the nearby Willamette River. LCI 713 is the only LCI that's being restored to its WW 2 appearance, and is one of the very few surviving ones period. They don't have much money so the restorers rely largely on volunteers to do the painstaking work. When I visited a decade ago, a WW 2 vet was hanging around and had many great stories. He talked about how very thin the walls of an LCI were. I don't think he served in the Pacific, his war stories were about D-Day. His LCI's captain took the ship too close to another ship, which had a protruding boom or section that crashed right through the hull of the LCI, into the radio room. The radio operator was somehow unhurt, but that LCI was out of action that day and had to go back to England. ETA the relevant link: www.amphibiousforces.org/lci713page/LCI713.htm
My Grandfather Patrick Beverly was on a tincan picket during the Okinawa campaign. I remember him describing a kamikaze attack. There was a ring of fighters that dove on them one after another. He said if they had attacked all at once they would have been sunk but coming in one at a time like that they were able to shoot each one down. At nine years old I didn't get just how terrifying that must have been.
Outstanding work as usual, it really is. I had a reasonably good understanding of the Pacific war before I discovered you guys. Almost from the start I was gripped, and the storytelling has made it easy to enjoy the details and the opinions of such experts. I'm watching in the UK, and I didn't know anyone involved or even a distant relative and my country wasn't directly threatened. But I am so eternally grateful for the sacrifice of those brave people and all who played their part in defending freedom and democracy. Thank you my American cousins. 👏
My question is this. When are you gentlemen going to start your own shirt line? As a preorder I need an untucked short sleeve with safety marking on it, but in a tastefull Hawaiian wallpaper print.
I’ve read these statistics before about lbs/second of AA fire steel that the Big Blue Fleet was capable of putting in the air against Japanese aircraft, in ‘41 vs ‘44. It’s astounding to consider that the nominal rate increased by more than 1000% (which is an increase of 10-fold). If you actually follow through with these stats, though, the outcomes are astonishing- whereas in 1941 if 100 planes were sent out, 70 or 80 would come back to land in their carriers, by 1944 for every 100 planes that took off about 60 would make it through the CAP, 20 would make it through the AA fire, they would score about 1/7 hits so that’s only about 2 hits on target, a further 10 or 15 would be taken out by the CAP on the way out, and only 5 or so planes would return. Obviously a 95% attrition rate is wholly unsustainable. Stupefying. From this perspective it’s really not that hard to understand why the Japanese admiralty decided to adopt the “Special Attack Units”, as they were cynically called.
Uncommon value is a common virtue of each episode. Thank you. BTW: My grandfather almost certainly helped building the Laffey here in Bath, Maine. Also, enjoying the Feng Shui caused by Mr. Parshall's shirt and wallpaper.
I was never interested in naval activities until coming across y'all's podcast and realized the awesome power of garbage can sized shells getting launched the same distance as my round trip commute to work. But not just the cool kit, but also the diaries, novels, personal anecdotes, and interviews that tell the story of the Pacific conflict that seemingly gets glossed over in a lot of media.
Just got through binge watching the entire series the past couple of months. Excellent content gentlemen! I have always been fascinated by WWII history, but the ETO was universally the focus of the attention. I knew of the major events of the PTO but your content has brought to light the grit and reality of the horrors of that conflict. I am also enjoying devouring several of the books you gentlemen have recommending, finishing up With the Old Breed this week. Keep up the great work as this history needs to be remembered lest we forget the lessons learned. On a side note to Capt Toti, my father was a 20 year navy veteran from the mid-70's to the mid-90's and spent much of his service at Sub Base San Diego building the Mk. 48 torpedos (and other versions). Perhaps some of his ordinance was on your sub. Thanks for the great work!
I was reading an article recently about the Navajo Code Talkers. Admittedly,I dont know much about them, but I'm curious if there's enough historical "meat on the bone" there for an episode? If there is, Im sure you guys would knock it out of the park. As always, great episode, thank you!
Thanks Seth! (And Bill and Jon) I appreciate your going back and filling in these "historical" gaps that often end up considered almost "secondary" actions. It's understood and appreciated that this was the first "sanctioned" Kamikaze event(s) in the Pacific. Our sailors' initial confusion is completely understandable.
My last trip to Japan I had the pleasure of meeting a gentleman was the nephew of a kamikaze pilot. What is interesting is that his grandparents had migrated to the Oregon (where their three children were born) but came back before the war. So his uncle was not only a kamikaze pilot but a US Citizen as well.
Again, Bravo Zulu the podcast guys. I do recall reading that Commodore Burke recommended the radar picket stations be deployed as divisions, not individual ships because the defensive effectiveness was much higher (proportional to the square of the number of ships, perhaps?) than individual ships. Never the less, your podcasts add immensely to my understanding. Thanks.
Maybe worth noting that Santee and Suwanee were both Sangamon-class escort carriers, that were based on the Cimarron-class fleet oiler hull (itself derived from MARAG T3) and displaced 25,000 t at full load. They were burly ships that could absorb a decent amount of damage despite their "jeep carrier" designation. The wikipedia page for Santee itself is wrong btw, the class page has more accurate information about these ships. In contrast St Lo was a Casablanca-class "Kaiser coffin" displacing only 11,000 t at full load, and therefore had a lot less sheer bunk with which to absorb damage. I think that explains at least some of the disparity of outcome between the 3 ships.
You guys are always on point, but this one in particular was awesome. The discussion of the move/counter-move and the physics of why the kamikazes did better against late war US AA envelopes was particularly well done. Cheers guys. Thanks for your work.
loving this, seth and jons input is wonderfull but bill's knowledge of how everything works just helps visualise the reality of navy day to day life. Thanks for all you guys do.
I really like Seth and Bill. But I have yet to see any episode, conversation, roundtable, Drydock and whatever, not being improved by Jon being on. He is a great historian and expert in his field, but also just a great guy.
Fabulous work as always! I didn't see anyone comment on the most eye-popping statistic in Inoguchi, Nakajima, and Pineau's book "The Divine Wind": about 40% of kamikaze pilots survived their missions. The book gives no explanation, I've always assumed that these were pilots who couldn't find a ship to attack, so they returned to base? Or does the book have incorrect figures?
I enjoy watching these videos every taco Tuesday! I was in the Navy from 70-78. My best duty station (gave me the most knowledge & trust) was the USS ORION (AS-18) where I had the opportunity to interface with everyone in our squadron, from the squadron commander to the E-3's, every day. I would interface with almost every officer on every boat in the squadron. Occasionally I would deal with other boats, not in our squadron, for "special" jobs. Once had to welcome Admiral Rickover aboard (scared the shit outta me! 😮) and had a rear Admiral (who's name escapes me, I paid more attention to his Dolpins and SEAL team insignia, (what do they call it?)) Anyways, to my point. With all due respect, Captain Toti, I think you should prepare better, so as to appear more contemporaneous in your delivery. Seth & John seems to be able to speak more from their knowledge of the subject and so speak in a much more relaxed, conversational. Look at the camera more, you are talking to us, not the camera. You're a "ring knocker", I would think that you had this drilled into you at the academy! Just a friendly suggestion ! Much respect for your service, much respect for your contributions to this, very informative series! All of you!
I read a book titles "I Was a Kamikazi" by Ryuji Nagatsuka. That book was a real eye opener. Nagatsuka explained in very simple language why Japan's Kamikazis did what they did. I thought I would pass this recommendation along for anyone who wants to learn a first person explaination as to how this happened. Ryuji Nagatsuka obviously survived the war. Thank you gentlemen for shining more light on this ugly aspect of World War Two in the Pacific.
I bought that book for my dad. He was a combat veteran of the Pacific war. He read it and had much to say about it, But ultimately he came away with a greater understanding of the war..
Guys. As usual great. I have been listening from day . This episode is one of the most thoroughly researched episodes. Do you do this all yourselves or does staff assist you. Either. Job extremely well done. Happy Thanksgiving
Excellent presentation Gentlemen. I enjoy these episodes however bitter sweet in knowing you're winding the series down. What superb work you've done. Thanks, you're appreciated.
Another 1.5hr plus of my favorite naval historian - well tied with Norman Friedman - I'm in. Always love hearing from Parshall and the boys, and can even take the homey wallpaper. 🙈
Woke up this morning and saw you guy’s podcast dropped…heard some of the names and went digging in my library for my copy of “The Divine Wind” - going to re-read it with the new info gained from your FANTASTIC episode!!!! You gentlemen rock!! 👍🏾❤️🫡🇺🇸⚓️
Congrats Sully. If he wants to try a different climate, there are scouts in Sisimiut - Greenland, who I am sure would welcome a visit. I have lived there, and few people are nicer. No matching shirts today? 😢 How do you deal with the heat and humidity Sth? And not least your beautiful and sweet dog?
Wow, those slides were amazing Jon. I knew flying into a carrier formation was hard because of the AA but my god, that is suicidal. I’ve known why they went to the divine wind but again I’ve never seen it displayed in that way. Great job.
Really puts it into perspective how suicidal American task forces were to approach for conventional air attacks by late 1944. If you watched any footage from 1944/45 about American AA, the sky is almost covered with flak bursts. As always, outstanding to have you guys talk every Tuesday.
My day job is in data science / data analytics (help Fortune 500 companies improve manufacturing operations and risk management) and so love when you guys nerd out on stats like AA ordnance throw weight/unit time and mean-time to repair, and defensive approaches that were first developed in response that are the basis of modern layered air defense approaches for anti-ship guided missiles. No where else to get such well thought out and entertaining historical analysis combined with great storytelling. THANK YOU for all of your ongoing hard work to put these together and happy Thanksgiving! P.s. when are you guys taking your show on the road - would love to see your banter with a live audience someday.
It is rare to see popular historians take an operations research approach to studying historic events. Documentary filmmaker Errol Morris didn't either, but in his great documentary "The Fog of War" he does show Robert S. McNamara talking about how impressed he was when he met Curtis LeMay. Whereas other Air Force/Army Air Corp generals focused on how many sorties were flown, how many pounds of bombs were dropped, how many enemy airplanes were shot down, etc. LeMay focused on what McNamara said were the two numbers that mattered the most: how much damage is being done to the target? And how many bombers and crew are we losing on these missions? If you can accomplish your target goals while suffering acceptable losses, you're winning that air campaign.
Those anti aircraft numbers a freaking nuts. You always hear that American anti aircraft was incredible, but those numbers really provide some perspective. 5 to 10x increases in firepower is insane
Good program, thank you! A subject I'd dearly love hearing about would be the service of Navy Corpsmen and Army Medics, a highly overlooked subject. I have always suspected that the combat experience of these men constituted numerous acts of bravery worthy of the Medal of Honer. But yet, the WWII history of this topic lies largely untold. Thanks again and I look forward to your next program.
Great show again guys. Guessing the nasty email may not improve the response time to him :) Jon think I would have preferred you wear a black shirt in honor of the sailors we lost. I'm sure we had a good idea where all these airstrips were in Japan--do you think we could have reduced Navy losses by turning Gen LeMay's B-29s loose on them with firebombs? Just curious. I always look forward to spending Tuesday with you guys. Thanks for all your hard work on these episodes Seth, Bill, and Jon--appreciate it!
Great episode as always! The story about the pilots sleeping in lean-tos the night before the missions and crying themselves to sleep reminds me of a History Channel episode I saw about 20 years ago; it was hosted by Arthur Kent, the CNN reporter who became famous during the 1991 Gulf War. At the end of the episode he claimed there were radio transcripts from kamikaze missions that had been found and translated. Many of them, according to Kent, contained "hot mic" messages from the pilots as they went into their final dives. Most of them, right before impact, cried out "I want my mother!" Have not researched this; maybe someone has. Sad and interesting story though.
Having listened to several of these podcasts, it is clear to me these guys read the same books I did back in the 1980s. Brings back memories of those books easily found in the school libraries in elementary, middle, and high. I wonder what they have in those libraries now.
My friend "Torpedo-man Bill" served on DD 690, the Norman Scott. To underscore the boys comments about up-gunning every ship repaired in port, he never fired a torpedo, and ended up being a 40 mm Bofors loader. Now I know why his forearms were so big.
As I am starting to watch this, I'm reminded of a recollection by a Korean pilot who was a member of the kamikaze units. Yes, there were Koreans in the Japanese force, as conscripted or volunteered into officer level. Anyhow, he recalled seeing a Japanese Kamikaze pilot who drank the cup of sake of farewell. However, his legs gave out, from fear/sadness/etc. He could not walk. Other men carried him into the plane he was to fly. Not sure if this was a Zero or a Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka, etc. He was not forcibly carried into the Kamikaze plane obviously. But his legs gave out and others had to him carried into the cockpit.
Regarding comments near the end of the video... When the enemy realizes he cannot win a conventional fight, he has three options: 1. surrender, a possibility the Japanese loathed 2. develop new conventional tactics and/or technology to level the field, which the Japanese could not 3. engage in asymmetric warfare, which the Japanese chose because it was the only practical option they had Overwhelming force invites guerrilla warfare and/or terrorism. It was true in Vietnam. It has been true for 30+ years in the Middle East. It will be true of other opponents in the future.
Ugaki’s diary in his analysis of Philippines Sea (24 June 44 Point 2(g)) makes reference to “suicide attacks by fighter-bomber squadrons”, that they were intercepted about 20 miles short of the enemy and surmises that “about 10 seemed to succeed in crashing on the enemy”. This hints that the kamikaze was somewhat larger, if there were squadrons. I had the impression that the attacks by the Japanese in the Philippines Sea were from IJN carriers, which if Ugaki is correct would put these squadrons on carriers.
My grandmother's brother served aboard a cargo ship during WW2. He told me six cargo ships were lost to Kamikazes at Okinawa, and he knew all they ship's names decades later. I think he must have had PTSD. He stayed in the merchant marine until retirement, then lived with family members. His recreation was going for daily long walks by himself. He never dated, married, or looked for other work. He was a very quiet and kind man.
I wonder how significant American CAP and AA was in the pilots' decisions as well as their leaders. Especially for those who had seen what they were up against, knowing there was no "rotation home" policy, it must have been obvious that they were never going to make it, one way or another. Under such desperate circumstances, the veneration of kamikaze in Japanese culture may have offered a sort of catharsis. I think it was Military History Visualised who did some stats work on kamikaze success: given the number of non-returning aircraft needed to get a single hit, kamikaze were sufficiently more efficient that they become rational, especially if you already have no hope of survival.
Few points: 1. HMAS Australia could be considered the ship that was Kamikazed on 21st October 1944. Undamaged plane crashed into the bridge. 2. There were 200 planes not 25 in the Philippines most were in and around Cebu which is where Air Group 201 and Seki were based. Carrier Air Groups also reinforced them with 50 plus planes on 14th October. Also had 4th Air Army based around 2nd Air and 4th Air Divisions in the middle and southern Philippines. Even saying 25 at Manila is doubtful 3. Rear Admiral Arima Masafumi, former captain of Shokaku at Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz, CO of the 26th Air Flotilla at the time you were talking about, he was an advocate of body crashing, hence his sacrifice 4. Inoguchi's brother was CO of Musashi, sunk in Sibuyan Sea 5. US propaganda / news media didn't mention the Kamikazr tactics until after the war at the time. US had no response to it. The US general public were fed the propaganda that war was tough and campaign hard but never any stage that US suffered any setbacks. 6. AA defence and shooting down. AA had to shoot down the string of planes. USA would focus on the 1st plane until it was shot down which meant the next plane to attack had less fire directed at it, then the 3rd had less again and down the line and eventually some kamikaze had none at all.
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I guess because a ton of general information about Kamikaze has been presented to me and the general public over and over during much of my 85 year. My general mindset was "ain"t nothing new to be learned" . WRONG----thanks again for the new information.
I read a quote once, I think it came from Saburo Sakai, that when they lined up the young men asking for volunteers for the Kamikaze missions, they knew that if they did not volunteer they were going anyway. Tragic !
In James Fahey's book "Pacific War Diary", he described the scene of crew members scraping body parts off the deck after a kamikaze struck his ship, the light cruiser USS Montpelier.
My dad was aboard the USS Montpelier as well. I don't know if he knew James Fahey, but I did read his book and it's fantastic. My Dad used to wake up screaming in the night about that Kamikaze attack that occurred off Okinawa. She was hit on the stern and three other kamikazes came in one at a time and they were able to shoot them out of the sky whereas had they come in all at once the ship would have been sunk for sure. Strange coincidence seeing your comment brought back a lot of memories of my Dad and some of the things that he had told me of his time aboard the Montpelier. He was 17 years old. He told me he saw far too much action than what he had bargained for, especially at that young age. Rest in peace, Dad. You did your job, and you did it well! Anchors away!🇺🇸⚓️🙏💯👍💖
@@Jakal-pw8yq IMO, the Cleveland-class light cruisers were the best ships in the US Navy. They all went through hell, but gave out far better than they received. Many, like the Montpelier, were involved in some of the heaviest action of the war nearly from day 1. I first read "Pacific War Diary" in junior high school ca, 1964. It was an eye-opener. The Benner was a new Gearing-class destroyer. My dad was a member of her crew at commissioning. He turned 19 somewhere between Pearl and Japan, joining the fleet on 25 July 1945. Fifteen days later the second atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. The kamikaze attack that struck Borie occurred about hours later. Japanese leadership knew that the war was lost in 1944 but kept fighting, sacrificing uncounted lives. For what? A lot of good people needlessly lost their lives because of their stubbornness (callousness?). My dad never talked about his service until about the last 10 years of his life. He considered his time on the Benner to be the most important of his life.
I think the latest Godzilla movie is a cultural psychological reckoning of the Japanese with the militarism that haunted them and drove those young men to do this. Maybe finally they are owning their history.
Outstanding, as always. Just so you guys know, you have a tremendous fan base that loves and appreciates what you guys do. You owe us nothing, and if you just need to take a break, do so. The fans will still be here when you get back.
Yep, I'll wait.
My thoughts exactly. Bravo!❤
Those AA throw weight slides were amazing, Jon.
💯
Very interesting
Congratulations to the new Eagle Scout!
The smaller vessels assigned to the picket stations had another, very important task. That was to rescue and provide refuge to survivors.
The presenters are very busy. I had something to share that I felt would be appreciated. The first attempt got no response. I tried again, emphasizing the nature of the message, and it ended up being passed along to the person who would most appreciate it. Bill send me a very nice note thanking me for sharing. They do read their mail!
Best WWII history podcast out there. I love the balance of presenting individual stories with how it fits into the bigger picture. I also love it when you say things like “suck it up“ because this is a hobby and not a breadwinning effort for you guys. As someone else commented, we will be here whenever you guys are able to get the content out. It is very important and excellent in its presentation. Please keep up the good work. I have learned so much.
Cup a black coffee and the fellas....it's a good morning.
I was, as usual, up at 0600 and downloading the pod asap!
@waynesmith8431 I set the alarm for 0500 and...nothing. Lol. Made my coffee and checked 15 mins later and there it was with a comment 11 mins before mine. Needless to say I was devastated.
Superior explanation of the whole situation on a given subject. No annoying repetition, No fake drama. I have learned 10 times as much from you guys as compared to the history channel, or any network produced history video
My father served on the USS South Dakota during WW 2 and he would rarely talk about the war. Most of what I learned as a kid about the war I learned from an older cousin. Since I found your channel I've learned so much and also found the reason Dad wouldn't talk too much about his experiences. Thanks so much for what you provide.
Congrats and outstanding, Sully!!!........Bill, while you were in the Academy, i was in DLI, Monterey, learning Korean, prior to the second phase of sigint training, and was reading the same books about Japanese military culture. i needed to, because i was of the opinion to be effective in discharge of intel duties, i can no longer "think " like an American, therefore i have to run my own training (secondary) program by deep diving back into Japanese/Korean martial history, and culture, and then i understood, and on a lighter note, while at DLI, i would take lunch at the best mess in the USN, at Naval Post Grad "down the hill"...i miss the mission, the DPRK is THE "black swan, imho. prayerfully yours. love you guys
Back in the 1970's when I was growing up I used to play war games by SPI with cardboard counters and maps with friends. In one game, War in the Pacific, they had a rule that by late 1943 no Japanese conventional attack with aircraft was possible in the game anymore. I always wondered as a kid about that being accurate and historical. Later in my history studies and in watching some videos later in life I was informed that some Japanese Judy fighters did penetrate the U.S. Fleet defenses for successful attacks. However, those were lone fighters doing solo attacks. So again I wondered up to now whether a Japanese attack coming in low below radar detection could have succeeded in a concentrated mass attack, popping up at the last minute to do their dive bombing.
Seeing your AAA slides, with the throw weight through the war graphically displayed, has dispelled finally for me any theory on alternate ways the Japanese could have succeeded in any form of mass attack. Even if they somehow got under the radar envelope to approach the heart of a task force, the pickets destroyers and outlying ships would have visually seen them an alerted the fleet. With all that AAA awaiting them at the heart of the task force there would have been no way they could have succeeded. I'm a believer now you might say. 🙂
One last thing. I remember watching the War at Sea series. They had one great line on a show about the Kamikaze that it was a battle between "Anti-aircraft gunners fighting to live versus Kamikaze pilots fighting to die."
To Seth. Bill, and Jon: thanks for ANOTHER, Stellar, episode, delivered on time, while I was sleeping. It can't get better than that, surely. Thank you all again.
I was thinking at about the halfway point that I would need to repeat the class ASAP. There's so much here. I recall after the episode on Philippine Sea, I thought the Japanese Admiral ?(Toyoda?) who had watched much of the battle thinking all of the time that his men were doing
well, must have had the seminal thoughts that generated the Divine Wind doctrine. THAT was the end of the road for two year's work to rebuild the IJN carrier air arm?
Well. What now?
Congratulations on the new Eagle Scout!
To have all three fathers have sons that are all Eagles is amazing!
Thank you for putting these on U Tube and congratulations once again!
Jon Parshall's visual presentations are works of art in military history.
Guys, its the history, the inexplicable behaviors, the emotions and unbelievable bravery that you present in such truth that allows your audience to emotionally and intellectually understand the full breadth of insanity involved in all out war. The detailed understanding of the war machines involved by yourselves and your guests are simply unparalleled in any medium. Thank you for dispelling the myths and misunderstanding of this war.
Jon Parshall opening statement at the national WW2 museum podcast "I am going to give you a crash course on the kamikaze phenom" which is why I find Jon entertaining.
I watched that and laughed out loud. My wife heard me laughing from the upstairs bedroom.
Just got done watching that lol
That was a good line! Jon needed a good 60 minutes to his presentation, it's that good!
I think post-mission debrief might have a been a bit challenging for that crowd.
Fantastic show. Jon always brings his “A game”. Thanks Seth and Captain Toti for bringing top notch shows!
Twenty -five years ago on the Columbia River at Vancouver, WA was moored an LCI. A tour opened to raise funds for the restoration of the ship. Whilst touring the bridge, I met a former USNR Ensign who was off Okinawa when a Kamikaze struck his ship. It was such an emotional moment, I turned off my camcorder in deference and respect for this Old sailer.
He went on in life to assume the helm of Goodwill Industries, turning the financially poor and ineptly operated non profit to what it is today. I wish I had saved his name. Somewhere I have a very short video interview. They were indeed, the Greatest Generation. Revere them NEVER forget their sacrifice.
That LCI is still there! Or at least a very similar one, it's now on the nearby Willamette River. LCI 713 is the only LCI that's being restored to its WW 2 appearance, and is one of the very few surviving ones period. They don't have much money so the restorers rely largely on volunteers to do the painstaking work.
When I visited a decade ago, a WW 2 vet was hanging around and had many great stories. He talked about how very thin the walls of an LCI were. I don't think he served in the Pacific, his war stories were about D-Day. His LCI's captain took the ship too close to another ship, which had a protruding boom or section that crashed right through the hull of the LCI, into the radio room. The radio operator was somehow unhurt, but that LCI was out of action that day and had to go back to England.
ETA the relevant link: www.amphibiousforces.org/lci713page/LCI713.htm
Thanks for another fascinating episode, Gents.
My Grandfather Patrick Beverly was on a tincan picket during the Okinawa campaign. I remember him describing a kamikaze attack. There was a ring of fighters that dove on them one after another. He said if they had attacked all at once they would have been sunk but coming in one at a time like that they were able to shoot each one down. At nine years old I didn't get just how terrifying that must have been.
Which ship?
Thanks for all your time and effort gentlemen. Great episode.
Outstanding work as usual, it really is. I had a reasonably good understanding of the Pacific war before I discovered you guys. Almost from the start I was gripped, and the storytelling has made it easy to enjoy the details and the opinions of such experts. I'm watching in the UK, and I didn't know anyone involved or even a distant relative and my country wasn't directly threatened. But I am so eternally grateful for the sacrifice of those brave people and all who played their part in defending freedom and democracy. Thank you my American cousins. 👏
My question is this.
When are you gentlemen going to start your own shirt line?
As a preorder I need an untucked short sleeve with safety marking on it, but in a tastefull Hawaiian wallpaper print.
THIS!
Great question!
My personal choice would be Jon's today pattern in Hi-Viz orange with reflective bands to highways or railtrack spec, long sleeve preferred.
I’ve read these statistics before about lbs/second of AA fire steel that the Big Blue Fleet was capable of putting in the air against Japanese aircraft, in ‘41 vs ‘44. It’s astounding to consider that the nominal rate increased by more than 1000% (which is an increase of 10-fold). If you actually follow through with these stats, though, the outcomes are astonishing- whereas in 1941 if 100 planes were sent out, 70 or 80 would come back to land in their carriers, by 1944 for every 100 planes that took off about 60 would make it through the CAP, 20 would make it through the AA fire, they would score about 1/7 hits so that’s only about 2 hits on target, a further 10 or 15 would be taken out by the CAP on the way out, and only 5 or so planes would return. Obviously a 95% attrition rate is wholly unsustainable. Stupefying. From this perspective it’s really not that hard to understand why the Japanese admiralty decided to adopt the “Special Attack Units”, as they were cynically called.
Congrats from a fellow Eagle Scout!
Uncommon value is a common virtue of each episode. Thank you. BTW: My grandfather almost certainly helped building the Laffey here in Bath, Maine. Also, enjoying the Feng Shui caused by Mr. Parshall's shirt and wallpaper.
Another EXCEPTIONAL episode by three brilliant historians all wearing great shirts! Congratulations to your newly minted Eagle Scout son Seth!
I was never interested in naval activities until coming across y'all's podcast and realized the awesome power of garbage can sized shells getting launched the same distance as my round trip commute to work.
But not just the cool kit, but also the diaries, novels, personal anecdotes, and interviews that tell the story of the Pacific conflict that seemingly gets glossed over in a lot of media.
Listening to you gentlemen is one of the finest things civilization has to offer. Thank you.
Just got through binge watching the entire series the past couple of months. Excellent content gentlemen! I have always been fascinated by WWII history, but the ETO was universally the focus of the attention. I knew of the major events of the PTO but your content has brought to light the grit and reality of the horrors of that conflict. I am also enjoying devouring several of the books you gentlemen have recommending, finishing up With the Old Breed this week. Keep up the great work as this history needs to be remembered lest we forget the lessons learned.
On a side note to Capt Toti, my father was a 20 year navy veteran from the mid-70's to the mid-90's and spent much of his service at Sub Base San Diego building the Mk. 48 torpedos (and other versions). Perhaps some of his ordinance was on your sub.
Thanks for the great work!
Seth thanks for sharing you sons success becoming an eagle scout I enjoy hearing about success
The Eagle Scout Association convenes here Right after the show!
Agree if you guys need to take a break Please do. Enjoy your time off and come back when you can
I was reading an article recently about the Navajo Code Talkers. Admittedly,I dont know much about them, but I'm curious if there's enough historical "meat on the bone" there for an episode? If there is, Im sure you guys would knock it out of the park.
As always, great episode, thank you!
They've already covered them
@@bughunter1766 Do you know which episode that was?
@@xboxie1 I believe it was during their coverage of the Guadalcanal campaign. They didn't do a full episode but they covered them in some detail.
Thanks Seth! (And Bill and Jon) I appreciate your going back and filling in these "historical" gaps that often end up considered almost "secondary" actions. It's understood and appreciated that this was the first "sanctioned" Kamikaze event(s) in the Pacific. Our sailors' initial confusion is completely understandable.
Excellent, as always!
My last trip to Japan I had the pleasure of meeting a gentleman was the nephew of a kamikaze pilot. What is interesting is that his grandparents had migrated to the Oregon (where their three children were born) but came back before the war. So his uncle was not only a kamikaze pilot but a US Citizen as well.
Yes it was, thanks again Guys 😊
Again, Bravo Zulu the podcast guys.
I do recall reading that Commodore Burke recommended the radar picket stations be deployed as divisions, not individual ships because the defensive effectiveness was much higher (proportional to the square of the number of ships, perhaps?) than individual ships.
Never the less, your podcasts add immensely to my understanding. Thanks.
Congratulations to your son Sully, Seth!!! Welcome to the club.
Maybe worth noting that Santee and Suwanee were both Sangamon-class escort carriers, that were based on the Cimarron-class fleet oiler hull (itself derived from MARAG T3) and displaced 25,000 t at full load. They were burly ships that could absorb a decent amount of damage despite their "jeep carrier" designation. The wikipedia page for Santee itself is wrong btw, the class page has more accurate information about these ships.
In contrast St Lo was a Casablanca-class "Kaiser coffin" displacing only 11,000 t at full load, and therefore had a lot less sheer bunk with which to absorb damage. I think that explains at least some of the disparity of outcome between the 3 ships.
Great episode as always. I always anticipate Tuesdays waiting for the new to be on line. Thanks Men.
Another brilliant episode, thank you
You guys are always on point, but this one in particular was awesome. The discussion of the move/counter-move and the physics of why the kamikazes did better against late war US AA envelopes was particularly well done. Cheers guys. Thanks for your work.
loving this, seth and jons input is wonderfull but bill's knowledge of how everything works just helps visualise the reality of navy day to day life. Thanks for all you guys do.
I am always delighted to see the name Jon Parshall in the episode. Though I am only at episode 220 or so so gotta do some catching up :D
I really like Seth and Bill. But I have yet to see any episode, conversation, roundtable, Drydock and whatever, not being improved by Jon being on. He is a great historian and expert in his field, but also just a great guy.
Bill thanks for that 1:37:14 observation by a Pearl Harbor survivor!! Thank you for your service and bravery.
I have seen most of your programs, I have enjoyed them all, but this one is the best so far! Thank you Gentlemen.
Fabulous work as always! I didn't see anyone comment on the most eye-popping statistic in Inoguchi, Nakajima, and Pineau's book "The Divine Wind": about 40% of kamikaze pilots survived their missions. The book gives no explanation, I've always assumed that these were pilots who couldn't find a ship to attack, so they returned to base? Or does the book have incorrect figures?
I always start my Tuesday morning with my favorite podcast and a cup of coffee, life’s good
I enjoy watching these videos every taco Tuesday!
I was in the Navy from 70-78. My best duty station (gave me the most knowledge & trust) was the USS ORION (AS-18) where I had the opportunity to interface with everyone in our squadron, from the squadron commander to the E-3's, every day. I would interface with almost every officer on every boat in the squadron. Occasionally I would deal with other boats, not in our squadron, for "special" jobs.
Once had to welcome Admiral Rickover aboard (scared the shit outta me! 😮) and had a rear Admiral (who's name escapes me, I paid more attention to his Dolpins and SEAL team insignia, (what do they call it?))
Anyways, to my point. With all due respect, Captain Toti, I think you should prepare better, so as to appear more contemporaneous in your delivery. Seth & John seems to be able to speak more from their knowledge of the subject and so speak in a much more relaxed, conversational. Look at the camera more, you are talking to us, not the camera.
You're a "ring knocker", I would think that you had this drilled into you at the academy!
Just a friendly suggestion !
Much respect for your service, much respect for your contributions to this, very informative series! All of you!
I read a book titles "I Was a Kamikazi" by Ryuji Nagatsuka. That book was a real eye opener. Nagatsuka explained in very simple language why Japan's Kamikazis did what they did. I thought I would pass this recommendation along for anyone who wants to learn a first person explaination as to how this happened. Ryuji Nagatsuka obviously survived the war.
Thank you gentlemen for shining more light on this ugly aspect of World War Two in the Pacific.
I bought that book for my dad. He was a combat veteran of the Pacific war. He read it and had much to say about it, But ultimately he came away with a greater understanding of the war..
Right on Eagle Scout. You guys rock. Cool shirt. More maps. Thak You
6:12am and i got just enough time to listen to this. Perfect. Thanks gents.
Guys. As usual great. I have been listening from day . This episode is one of the most thoroughly researched episodes. Do you do this all yourselves or does staff assist you. Either. Job extremely well done. Happy Thanksgiving
We don’t have a staff. Every bit of research is done by those you see and hear on screen.
Which makes this endeavor more impresssive. And to think this effort has been done for over 3 ( I think) years. This must be a labor of love.
I very much appreciate your hobby. Thank you all.
Excellent presentation Gentlemen. I enjoy these episodes however bitter sweet in knowing you're winding the series down. What superb work you've done. Thanks, you're appreciated.
Another 1.5hr plus of my favorite naval historian - well tied with Norman Friedman - I'm in. Always love hearing from Parshall and the boys, and can even take the homey wallpaper. 🙈
Where do I find his work?
to paraphrase Oddball - love it - great movie by the way
Congratulations on your new Eagle Scout - great to hear!
Woke up this morning and saw you guy’s podcast dropped…heard some of the names and went digging in my library for my copy of “The Divine Wind” - going to re-read it with the new info gained from your FANTASTIC episode!!!! You gentlemen rock!!
👍🏾❤️🫡🇺🇸⚓️
Congrats Sully. If he wants to try a different climate, there are scouts in Sisimiut - Greenland, who I am sure would welcome a visit. I have lived there, and few people are nicer.
No matching shirts today? 😢
How do you deal with the heat and humidity Sth? And not least your beautiful and sweet dog?
Thanks!
Wow, those slides were amazing Jon. I knew flying into a carrier formation was hard because of the AA but my god, that is suicidal. I’ve known why they went to the divine wind but again I’ve never seen it displayed in that way. Great job.
If your going to do a episode on the destroyer USS Laffey (DD724) you should also mention the ending of USS William D. Porter (DD-579).
And the U.S.S. Emmons
Really puts it into perspective how suicidal American task forces were to approach for conventional air attacks by late 1944. If you watched any footage from 1944/45 about American AA, the sky is almost covered with flak bursts. As always, outstanding to have you guys talk every Tuesday.
I remember the Cheech and Chong bit about the kamikazes where the one pilot asks "Are you out of your f%cking mind?"
Your videos have been fantastic to listen to. Thank you and keep up the good work.
My day job is in data science / data analytics (help Fortune 500 companies improve manufacturing operations and risk management) and so love when you guys nerd out on stats like AA ordnance throw weight/unit time and mean-time to repair, and defensive approaches that were first developed in response that are the basis of modern layered air defense approaches for anti-ship guided missiles. No where else to get such well thought out and entertaining historical analysis combined with great storytelling. THANK YOU for all of your ongoing hard work to put these together and happy Thanksgiving! P.s. when are you guys taking your show on the road - would love to see your banter with a live audience someday.
It is rare to see popular historians take an operations research approach to studying historic events. Documentary filmmaker Errol Morris didn't either, but in his great documentary "The Fog of War" he does show Robert S. McNamara talking about how impressed he was when he met Curtis LeMay. Whereas other Air Force/Army Air Corp generals focused on how many sorties were flown, how many pounds of bombs were dropped, how many enemy airplanes were shot down, etc. LeMay focused on what McNamara said were the two numbers that mattered the most: how much damage is being done to the target? And how many bombers and crew are we losing on these missions? If you can accomplish your target goals while suffering acceptable losses, you're winning that air campaign.
Thank you Bill Seth and Jon.
From England, I have really enjoyed your series.
The RN Pacific Fleet will be featured soon. The Right Jab to USN Left Uppercut.
I'm guessing Drach will join Bill and Seth. Stay tuned...
@@richardbennett1856no it will not be featured soon. Didn’t know you had my topic list at hand.
Those anti aircraft numbers a freaking nuts.
You always hear that American anti aircraft was incredible, but those numbers really provide some perspective. 5 to 10x increases in firepower is insane
Congratulations to Seth's son. Earning Eagle rank is considerable work!
Congratulations on the upcoming 40K achievement.
Good program, thank you! A subject I'd dearly love hearing about would be the service of Navy Corpsmen and Army Medics, a highly overlooked subject. I have always suspected that the combat experience of these men constituted numerous acts of bravery worthy of the Medal of Honer. But yet, the WWII history of this topic lies largely untold. Thanks again and I look forward to your next program.
Desmond Doss, Medal of Honor recipient, Oscar winning film, Hacksaw Ridge
Seth, Bill, John and the he 4th unsung contributor, John’s Shirts.
Truly unappreciated in our time, but definitely putting in work
You really dug deep into a difficult subject. Well done (as always).
Great show again guys. Guessing the nasty email may not improve the response time to him :) Jon think I would have preferred you wear a black shirt in honor of the sailors we lost. I'm sure we had a good idea where all these airstrips were in Japan--do you think we could have reduced Navy losses by turning Gen LeMay's B-29s loose on them with firebombs? Just curious. I always look forward to spending Tuesday with you guys. Thanks for all your hard work on these episodes Seth, Bill, and Jon--appreciate it!
Great episode as always! The story about the pilots sleeping in lean-tos the night before the missions and crying themselves to sleep reminds me of a History Channel episode I saw about 20 years ago; it was hosted by Arthur Kent, the CNN reporter who became famous during the 1991 Gulf War. At the end of the episode he claimed there were radio transcripts from kamikaze missions that had been found and translated. Many of them, according to Kent, contained "hot mic" messages from the pilots as they went into their final dives. Most of them, right before impact, cried out "I want my mother!" Have not researched this; maybe someone has. Sad and interesting story though.
Morning from Arizona.
Heads up since I haven’t seen a comment on it. The audio during the intro is screwed up.
Having listened to several of these podcasts, it is clear to me these guys read the same books I did back in the 1980s. Brings back memories of those books easily found in the school libraries in elementary, middle, and high. I wonder what they have in those libraries now.
Excellent and informative as always.
Congratulations to the new Eagle Scout in your family.
My friend "Torpedo-man Bill" served on DD 690, the Norman Scott. To underscore the boys comments about up-gunning every ship repaired in port, he never fired a torpedo, and ended up being a 40 mm Bofors loader. Now I know why his forearms were so big.
As I am starting to watch this, I'm reminded of a recollection by a Korean pilot who was a member of the kamikaze units. Yes, there were Koreans in the Japanese force, as conscripted or volunteered into officer level.
Anyhow, he recalled seeing a Japanese Kamikaze pilot who drank the cup of sake of farewell. However, his legs gave out, from fear/sadness/etc. He could not walk. Other men carried him into the plane he was to fly. Not sure if this was a Zero or a Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka, etc. He was not forcibly carried into the Kamikaze plane obviously. But his legs gave out and others had to him carried into the cockpit.
Regarding comments near the end of the video...
When the enemy realizes he cannot win a conventional fight, he has three options:
1. surrender, a possibility the Japanese loathed
2. develop new conventional tactics and/or technology to level the field, which the Japanese could not
3. engage in asymmetric warfare, which the Japanese chose because it was the only practical option they had
Overwhelming force invites guerrilla warfare and/or terrorism. It was true in Vietnam. It has been true for 30+ years in the Middle East. It will be true of other opponents in the future.
Great video, thanks guys.
Great show. Keep john on the show
Ugaki’s diary in his analysis of Philippines Sea (24 June 44 Point 2(g)) makes reference to “suicide attacks by fighter-bomber squadrons”, that they were intercepted about 20 miles short of the enemy and surmises that “about 10 seemed to succeed in crashing on the enemy”.
This hints that the kamikaze was somewhat larger, if there were squadrons. I had the impression that the attacks by the Japanese in the Philippines Sea were from IJN carriers, which if Ugaki is correct would put these squadrons on carriers.
My grandmother's brother served aboard a cargo ship during WW2. He told me six cargo ships were lost to Kamikazes at Okinawa, and he knew all they ship's names decades later. I think he must have had PTSD. He stayed in the merchant marine until retirement, then lived with family members. His recreation was going for daily long walks by himself. He never dated, married, or looked for other work. He was a very quiet and kind man.
Good morning from SC!
Eagle scout here 1966...
Good morning
It certainly is with another podcast with Mr Parshall!
Pacific tuesday.
Yeah, Arizona doesn’t play the Daylight Saving Time thing- you guys are an hour later now!
It took me this long to figure all this out- HELLO McFly!
I wonder how significant American CAP and AA was in the pilots' decisions as well as their leaders. Especially for those who had seen what they were up against, knowing there was no "rotation home" policy, it must have been obvious that they were never going to make it, one way or another. Under such desperate circumstances, the veneration of kamikaze in Japanese culture may have offered a sort of catharsis.
I think it was Military History Visualised who did some stats work on kamikaze success: given the number of non-returning aircraft needed to get a single hit, kamikaze were sufficiently more efficient that they become rational, especially if you already have no hope of survival.
Few points:
1. HMAS Australia could be considered the ship that was Kamikazed on 21st October 1944. Undamaged plane crashed into the bridge.
2. There were 200 planes not 25 in the Philippines most were in and around Cebu which is where Air Group 201 and Seki were based. Carrier Air Groups also reinforced them with 50 plus planes on 14th October. Also had 4th Air Army based around 2nd Air and 4th Air Divisions in the middle and southern Philippines. Even saying 25 at Manila is doubtful
3. Rear Admiral Arima Masafumi, former captain of Shokaku at Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz, CO of the 26th Air Flotilla at the time you were talking about, he was an advocate of body crashing, hence his sacrifice
4. Inoguchi's brother was CO of Musashi, sunk in Sibuyan Sea
5. US propaganda / news media didn't mention the Kamikazr tactics until after the war at the time. US had no response to it. The US general public were fed the propaganda that war was tough and campaign hard but never any stage that US suffered any setbacks.
6. AA defence and shooting down. AA had to shoot down the string of planes. USA would focus on the 1st plane until it was shot down which meant the next plane to attack had less fire directed at it, then the 3rd had less again and down the line and eventually some kamikaze had none at all.
Another outstanding show, Seth, Capt. Bill, and John !!
Excellent detail, as usual.
I almost had decided not to watch but glad I watched. Very informational. Thanks.
Just curious, why wouldn’t you have watched?
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar I guess because a ton of general information about Kamikaze has been presented to me and the general public over and over during much of my 85 year. My general mindset was "ain"t nothing new to be learned" . WRONG----thanks again for the new information.
I read a quote once, I think it came from Saburo Sakai, that when they lined up the young men asking for volunteers for the Kamikaze missions, they knew that if they did not volunteer they were going anyway. Tragic !
In James Fahey's book "Pacific War Diary", he described the scene of crew members scraping body parts off the deck after a kamikaze struck his ship, the light cruiser USS Montpelier.
My dad was aboard the USS Montpelier as well. I don't know if he knew James Fahey, but I did read his book and it's fantastic. My Dad used to wake up screaming in the night about that Kamikaze attack that occurred off Okinawa. She was hit on the stern and three other kamikazes came in one at a time and they were able to shoot them out of the sky whereas had they come in all at once the ship would have been sunk for sure. Strange coincidence seeing your comment brought back a lot of memories of my Dad and some of the things that he had told me of his time aboard the Montpelier. He was 17 years old. He told me he saw far too much action than what he had bargained for, especially at that young age. Rest in peace, Dad. You did your job, and you did it well! Anchors away!🇺🇸⚓️🙏💯👍💖
@@Jakal-pw8yq IMO, the Cleveland-class light cruisers were the best ships in the US Navy. They all went through hell, but gave out far better than they received. Many, like the Montpelier, were involved in some of the heaviest action of the war nearly from day 1. I first read "Pacific War Diary" in junior high school ca, 1964. It was an eye-opener.
The Benner was a new Gearing-class destroyer. My dad was a member of her crew at commissioning. He turned 19 somewhere between Pearl and Japan, joining the fleet on 25 July 1945. Fifteen days later the second atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. The kamikaze attack that struck Borie occurred about hours later.
Japanese leadership knew that the war was lost in 1944 but kept fighting, sacrificing uncounted lives. For what? A lot of good people needlessly lost their lives because of their stubbornness (callousness?).
My dad never talked about his service until about the last 10 years of his life. He considered his time on the Benner to be the most important of his life.
Great show gentlemen.
I think the latest Godzilla movie is a cultural psychological reckoning of the Japanese with the militarism that haunted them and drove those young men to do this. Maybe finally they are owning their history.