Some people can live a minimalist lifestyle and be happy, others can’t. There are people who work a job they don’t like to support their overextended lifestyle until they’re 65 only to die of disease shortly into their retirement. FIRE brings purpose and independence while learning to live one’s best life without luxury, a very underrated concept in todays world.
Most of these big name F.I.R.E. movement people on UA-cam are NOT retired. They simply changed careers or are in business for themselves. If the UA-cam ads money and sponsorships dry up, they will be crawling back to their previous employer.
Go to South east Asia. You will meet plenty of retired, happy people from the western countries. Also, they are not millionaires. They just lived below their means for their whole working life and now they enjoy the early retirement @@TIB1973
Right now I live on about 12k/year, renting a studio apartment, eating well. It's all good, buying stuff doesn't make you happy. Investing for your future does.
Right on. Sounds like you have a sensible path toward prosperity! Since you are a living example, would you care to share your approach for the community?
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees thank you for your reply. The reality is that I have never seen so wealth being accumulated in my behalf since my financial independence movement!
He seems to equate the FIRE movement with extreme frugality. While some seeking FIRE do practice frugality, others do not. The movement's basic premise is to have an investment portfolio that can support your lifestyle. It's a personal choice what lifestyle that is. Of course those with high incomes but modest lifestyles can reach FIRE earlier than their more spendthrift or lower in income. Saying FIRE requires saving 60 to 80% of your income is an oversimplification. Those percentages might be possible for someone with a high enough income, but even those with modest incomes can work towards a FIRE goal. It will likely take them longer just as it will take those who don't adopt frugality longer. Anyone can meet their retirement goals sooner if the do the sensible things FIRE seekers tend to do. Avoid debt, save & invest, and live within your means. That's good advice for everyone! Saying it's "dumb" just shows his ignorance of what the movement really is.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and being a part of the community! I equate it to extreme frugality because that is how the movement began which I point out in the full length video. And a significant amount of FIRE enthusiasts follow that template. And thus, the potential problems I point out. You can check out the entire video here => ua-cam.com/video/DGZscyViNu8/v-deo.html. Good, solid retirement planning of living within your means, saving and investing to create a retirement portfolio that can support a reasonable length of retirement is not IMO FIRE. It sounds to me, that you are practicing good, sound retirement planning and that is outstanding. My goal with the video and the shorts is to help people really think about all aspects and trade-offs of practicing FIRE as it was originally developed. Cheers!
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees Thanks for the reply. I'll watch the video you linked. If you think that age 65 is the traditional North American retirement age, then intentionally achieving a retirement younger than that can be considered FIRE. Its on a spectrum where very few working towards FIRE could be featured on the TV show 'Extreme Cheapskates'. I'd suggest most in the movement are just doing what financial planners recommend we all do. That is, they're the ones who actively do what most clients of financial planners fail to fully implement.
To me FIRE is about what you value more:Not being a slave to your boss,/job, freedom, not worrying about money, debt, working till you die, having time to live and explore, retiring at a healthy age buy something you want with cash. ORRR do you value impulse spending, outward show to impress others, having the latest gimmick, are these things worth more than your freedom and piece of mind. you earn money either way but its what you spend it on that matters.
Here is my only push back on your comment which I mostly agree with. The assumption here is that the money spent instead of saving it is spent on impulse spending, or outward show to impress others, or the latest gimmick. What if instead, you really value skiing all over the world while you are in great shape and healthy and you would rather spend your money doing that. Or, if you really value helping your children train for various sports and you want to spend that money by "investing" in them. Or, you may really enjoy spear fishing off the California coast, or you want to travel around the country following your favorite band as they tour. Or you love playing tennis, so you would like to spend money on a tennis club where you meet other tennis lovers and enjoy your time with them. Or you love grilling quality meat for friends and family, so you pay up for the Green Egg and enjoy prime cuts of beef because it brings you enjoyment. To me, and this is only my opinion, what everyone "values" is different. Live a life of balance, live within your means. Work doing what you enjoy (mostly if possible). Save, and invest and don't borrow for consumptive/materialistic goods. Love to hear more of your thoughts!
You may be right for some people. Working my shit job until I'm 65 if I even live that long sounds a lot worse than living cheap for a third of that time.
Similar boat, still married but my expenses went up $25k/year after two kids and we lost my wife's income. The corporate executives will have me by the balls for many more years now.
I use fire as a bridge to time freedom to pursue things I want to pursue, like my own business. It gives a financial back stop if something were to go wrong. Time freedom from a job is my main motivator and actually raising my kids. Not someone else
For once, a financial short I can agree with lol. The frugal living thing, at least in terms of physical health, can wreck you. Bad sleeping conditions to start: if you don't sleep right your brain is not going to function properly enough to even do those stock trades in the first place.
Frugal living isn't as depressing as it's depicted here. Just having hobbies that are productive or at least free instead of costing a lot of money makes a big difference in on the bank but not in the heart.
There are several things to consider that may determine how effective FIRE will be for you: - Are you surrounding yourself with people of a similar frugal mentality? - Can you find ways to have positive life experiences that don’t require much money? - Can you save the necessary amount of money without being an unnecessary burden on others? - Do you have a plan of what to do after retirement that will give you purpose?
Actually, the dumbest plan is to follow the traditional legacy system and work until you die. Then you'll never. You'll really be miserable then trading your time for money like a hamster slave on a wheel. Jeez
There are a lot of people in America who actually love their work, which gives them additional purpose. Whether they own a business or work for someone else, amazingly, a large portion of America loves their work. If you feel like you are on a hamster wheel, it's possible you should look at another line of work...
Not really as this concept can be tweaked. Not everyone want to work full time until they retire. Some people, such as myself, only wants to work one day a week or only part of a year. Stay out of debt, pay cash for your home and save as much as possible. VT247
Actually it’s very empowering. And you don’t have to save 80%, 30-40% works just fine. Nothing More frustrating, looking back over 20 hard working years with nothing to show for it. Small sacrifices over a few years is well worth it
Teaching Americans which is the biggest consumer based economy in the world that reckless spending isn’t good and saving/investing is better than being a YOLO dweeb is actually a good idea
FIRE doesn't have to be achieved in a decade. We're shooting for 50. That's still early, but very doable. Maybe we'll not stop working but just reduce hours by what feels right. Sometimes, life throws you a curve ball and I'm happy that I'm flexible enough to go with the flow.
Correct, this "nonsense" is my opinion based on factual stories reported in interviews and over 20 years of experience working with real, live humans. Not to say there aren't success stories, because there definitely are. But the extreme versions of FIRE have many financial and emotional casualties as well.
@seetheforestthroughthetrees My main point of contention is the narrow mischaracterization of this strategy. Math works in both directions after all. The most sustainable (and common) strategy is to drastically raise income while keeping expenses flat. Another option for DINKs is to live solely off of one partner's income while investing the other's. The penny pinching and eating ramen approach is unrealistic and inefficient, yet that was the central focus of your argument against FIRE. People with low incomes don't have a money problem. They have a skill problem. The highest and fastest ROI on a person's time is upskilling. If people are smart enough to implement FIRE, they're definitely smart enough to come to that realization fairly early on in the journey.
I disagree. Not able to save and invest, living above the means and having to do the job you hate to pay your avoidable bills cause depression, anxiety, apathy and divorce.
HaHa. Great comment. It's interesting that the exact thing that is enticing to try FIRE can end up causing someone to leave FIRE. There are numerous stories of people who quit extreme saving because of the emotional toll it took.
@@seetheforestthroughthetreesI see fire as a lifestyle, not a diet. People who jump in this and go extreme right off the bat will usually fail. Which is similar to a diet imo. Some people cut back on spending just a little bit to fire and some go more extreme. I think it comes down to income, goals, time frame, and many more variables. I like learning about the way other people live out the fire lifestyle. I learn things I want to incorporate and things I want to do. Plus the extreme habits I find entertaining as well.
@@seetheforestthroughthetreessounds like they were treating it like a fad diet. It's a lifestyle choice. People that adopt the fire movement oftentimes we're already practicing many of its principles
Bro.. you clearly don’t understand FIRE or met anyone that has actually achieved it This is like saying: if you go for your dreams you will be unhappy so settle for avg small things that make you feel good lol
Bro is spreading lies. The movement is about saving any amount to retire early. This is the spectrum: 10% takes 40 years to retire 20% takes 30 30% takes 24 40% takes 19 50% takes 15 60% takes 12 70% takes 9 You can do any of those depending on how extreme you wanna be. Yeah you don't wanna live off your friends and be a freeloader but also you can def retire early especially if earn anywhere near 6 figures. It might take a few months but buy a trailer outright. I live in Columbus and every month or two there are a couple going for 20k or so. All of a sudden you only pay lot rent of like 300, include all of your other bills and you might be paying 1500 a month. Add a roommate and now you pay 750 give or take. If you make 1500 a week after taxes theoretically you could save 5250 of that 6k a month, or 87.5 percent. No it won't work out that way. You will go out to eat, movies, unforseen expenses, etc etc but yes you can most definitely save over 50% of your income especially when you make over 70-80k a year. Another thing i would like to point out is if you fail you still succeed. Nobody will say "oh no i ONLY saved 35 percent this year" and you dont have to do this plan forever. 5-6 years and you have a substantial nestegg. Going back to 1500 a week, if you only save 50% that is 39,000 saved in a year, give it 5 years and you saved 200,000 plus interest on investments. In just 5 years you created about 260k in wealth. If you do that for 10 years it's about 600k+ coz interest compounds, do that for 15 years and you have well over a million dollars. And that's just at 50% for someone that makes about 100k a year before taxes. Edit: a more realistic expectation if you make less. Lets say you get 40k a year after taxes. You can only save 30% which is on the lower end of FIRE. That is still over 12k a year. 10 years down the road and you have invested 120k and after compounding should be around 200k. We aren't even talking about raises, spliting bills with roomates/significant others, extra money you didn't see coming in or side hustles but while the fire movement is meant for people making more money anybody can try to save.
Some people can live a minimalist lifestyle and be happy, others can’t. There are people who work a job they don’t like to support their overextended lifestyle until they’re 65 only to die of disease shortly into their retirement. FIRE brings purpose and independence while learning to live one’s best life without luxury, a very underrated concept in todays world.
10 years of mild sacrifice and 30 years of freedom, is better than 40 years of wishing you had money while working lol
That's not what fire movement is about. It's about cutting things that don't make you happy. Don't spread misinformation dude
show me an old happy FIRE person.
@@TIB1973Plenty are out there.
Most of these big name F.I.R.E. movement people on UA-cam are NOT retired. They simply changed careers or are in business for themselves. If the UA-cam ads money and sponsorships dry up, they will be crawling back to their previous employer.
Go to South east Asia. You will meet plenty of retired, happy people from the western countries. Also, they are not millionaires. They just lived below their means for their whole working life and now they enjoy the early retirement @@TIB1973
Right now I live on about 12k/year, renting a studio apartment, eating well. It's all good, buying stuff doesn't make you happy. Investing for your future does.
Your lucky, my rent alone is 24k a year and if I’m lucky I’m able to live on around 32k a year. I try to invest the rest of my money.
Where are you doing that? I live in the Midwest where housing is cheap and my studio apartment alone is 12k/year.
Fire movement is great! It all depends on how you go about it! I am living example that!
Right on. Sounds like you have a sensible path toward prosperity! Since you are a living example, would you care to share your approach for the community?
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees thank you for your reply. The reality is that I have never seen so wealth being accumulated in my behalf since my financial independence movement!
He seems to equate the FIRE movement with extreme frugality. While some seeking FIRE do practice frugality, others do not. The movement's basic premise is to have an investment portfolio that can support your lifestyle. It's a personal choice what lifestyle that is. Of course those with high incomes but modest lifestyles can reach FIRE earlier than their more spendthrift or lower in income. Saying FIRE requires saving 60 to 80% of your income is an oversimplification. Those percentages might be possible for someone with a high enough income, but even those with modest incomes can work towards a FIRE goal. It will likely take them longer just as it will take those who don't adopt frugality longer. Anyone can meet their retirement goals sooner if the do the sensible things FIRE seekers tend to do. Avoid debt, save & invest, and live within your means. That's good advice for everyone! Saying it's "dumb" just shows his ignorance of what the movement really is.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and being a part of the community!
I equate it to extreme frugality because that is how the movement began which I point out in the full length video. And a significant amount of FIRE enthusiasts follow that template. And thus, the potential problems I point out. You can check out the entire video here => ua-cam.com/video/DGZscyViNu8/v-deo.html.
Good, solid retirement planning of living within your means, saving and investing to create a retirement portfolio that can support a reasonable length of retirement is not IMO FIRE. It sounds to me, that you are practicing good, sound retirement planning and that is outstanding. My goal with the video and the shorts is to help people really think about all aspects and trade-offs of practicing FIRE as it was originally developed. Cheers!
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees Thanks for the reply. I'll watch the video you linked. If you think that age 65 is the traditional North American retirement age, then intentionally achieving a retirement younger than that can be considered FIRE. Its on a spectrum where very few working towards FIRE could be featured on the TV show 'Extreme Cheapskates'. I'd suggest most in the movement are just doing what financial planners recommend we all do. That is, they're the ones who actively do what most clients of financial planners fail to fully implement.
To me FIRE is about what you value more:Not being a slave to your boss,/job, freedom, not worrying about money, debt, working till you die, having time to live and explore, retiring at a healthy age buy something you want with cash. ORRR do you value impulse spending, outward show to impress others, having the latest gimmick, are these things worth more than your freedom and piece of mind. you earn money either way but its what you spend it on that matters.
Here is my only push back on your comment which I mostly agree with. The assumption here is that the money spent instead of saving it is spent on impulse spending, or outward show to impress others, or the latest gimmick. What if instead, you really value skiing all over the world while you are in great shape and healthy and you would rather spend your money doing that. Or, if you really value helping your children train for various sports and you want to spend that money by "investing" in them. Or, you may really enjoy spear fishing off the California coast, or you want to travel around the country following your favorite band as they tour. Or you love playing tennis, so you would like to spend money on a tennis club where you meet other tennis lovers and enjoy your time with them. Or you love grilling quality meat for friends and family, so you pay up for the Green Egg and enjoy prime cuts of beef because it brings you enjoyment.
To me, and this is only my opinion, what everyone "values" is different. Live a life of balance, live within your means. Work doing what you enjoy (mostly if possible). Save, and invest and don't borrow for consumptive/materialistic goods. Love to hear more of your thoughts!
Also don't forget a goalless life. We might complain about work but often it is what keeps us going.
You may be right for some people. Working my shit job until I'm 65 if I even live that long sounds a lot worse than living cheap for a third of that time.
an early divorce and large child support payments left me no alternative. now in retirement i have a great time
Similar boat, still married but my expenses went up $25k/year after two kids and we lost my wife's income. The corporate executives will have me by the balls for many more years now.
I use fire as a bridge to time freedom to pursue things I want to pursue, like my own business. It gives a financial back stop if something were to go wrong. Time freedom from a job is my main motivator and actually raising my kids. Not someone else
For once, a financial short I can agree with lol.
The frugal living thing, at least in terms of physical health, can wreck you. Bad sleeping conditions to start: if you don't sleep right your brain is not going to function properly enough to even do those stock trades in the first place.
Lol
Frugal living isn't as depressing as it's depicted here. Just having hobbies that are productive or at least free instead of costing a lot of money makes a big difference in on the bank but not in the heart.
There are several things to consider that may determine how effective FIRE will be for you:
- Are you surrounding yourself with people of a similar frugal mentality?
- Can you find ways to have positive life experiences that don’t require much money?
- Can you save the necessary amount of money without being an unnecessary burden on others?
- Do you have a plan of what to do after retirement that will give you purpose?
Actually, the dumbest plan is to follow the traditional legacy system and work until you die. Then you'll never. You'll really be miserable then trading your time for money like a hamster slave on a wheel. Jeez
There are a lot of people in America who actually love their work, which gives them additional purpose. Whether they own a business or work for someone else, amazingly, a large portion of America loves their work. If you feel like you are on a hamster wheel, it's possible you should look at another line of work...
Sometimes it might not involve as much sacrifice, as much as it does creative thinking.
That is an outstanding way to think about it.
Not really as this concept can be tweaked. Not everyone want to work full time until they retire. Some people, such as myself, only wants to work one day a week or only part of a year. Stay out of debt, pay cash for your home and save as much as possible.
VT247
I'm living 6 pack to 6 pack in an old refrigerator box.
Actually it’s very empowering. And you don’t have to save 80%, 30-40% works just fine. Nothing More frustrating, looking back over 20 hard working years with nothing to show for it. Small sacrifices over a few years is well worth it
Teaching Americans which is the biggest consumer based economy in the world that reckless spending isn’t good and saving/investing is better than being a YOLO dweeb is actually a good idea
FIRE doesn't have to be achieved in a decade. We're shooting for 50. That's still early, but very doable. Maybe we'll not stop working but just reduce hours by what feels right. Sometimes, life throws you a curve ball and I'm happy that I'm flexible enough to go with the flow.
Do only what you love, and never retire .. is also a valid option
So true @steveoc64
To be fair, he prefaced this nonsense with the phrase "in my opinion"
Correct, this "nonsense" is my opinion based on factual stories reported in interviews and over 20 years of experience working with real, live humans. Not to say there aren't success stories, because there definitely are. But the extreme versions of FIRE have many financial and emotional casualties as well.
@seetheforestthroughthetrees My main point of contention is the narrow mischaracterization of this strategy.
Math works in both directions after all. The most sustainable (and common) strategy is to drastically raise income while keeping expenses flat.
Another option for DINKs is to live solely off of one partner's income while investing the other's.
The penny pinching and eating ramen approach is unrealistic and inefficient, yet that was the central focus of your argument against FIRE.
People with low incomes don't have a money problem. They have a skill problem.
The highest and fastest ROI on a person's time is upskilling.
If people are smart enough to implement FIRE, they're definitely smart enough to come to that realization fairly early on in the journey.
I like the FI, and Retired Rich. Not retired too early, wasted all the talents to do nothing.
I disagree. Not able to save and invest, living above the means and having to do the job you hate to pay your avoidable bills cause depression, anxiety, apathy and divorce.
Your comment is correct as well. It's possible to have two conclusions that are both correct at the same time.
Its not that bad worth it long term and you beat keeping up with the Jones by not playing the game 😊
You have it exactly backwards.
HaHa. Great comment. It's interesting that the exact thing that is enticing to try FIRE can end up causing someone to leave FIRE. There are numerous stories of people who quit extreme saving because of the emotional toll it took.
@@seetheforestthroughthetreesI see fire as a lifestyle, not a diet. People who jump in this and go extreme right off the bat will usually fail. Which is similar to a diet imo. Some people cut back on spending just a little bit to fire and some go more extreme.
I think it comes down to income, goals, time frame, and many more variables.
I like learning about the way other people live out the fire lifestyle. I learn things I want to incorporate and things I want to do. Plus the extreme habits I find entertaining as well.
@@seetheforestthroughthetreessounds like they were treating it like a fad diet. It's a lifestyle choice. People that adopt the fire movement oftentimes we're already practicing many of its principles
Works for those who get a thrill from saving
Nothing wrong with it if you stick to your guns 10 years is nothing
Wrong Buddy
Bro.. you clearly don’t understand FIRE or met anyone that has actually achieved it
This is like saying: if you go for your dreams you will be unhappy so settle for avg small things that make you feel good lol
Clearly.
concern trolling noted
It is for sure one of the dumbest money trends ever.
Couldn’t agree more!
Fake news. 🤬
Bro is spreading lies. The movement is about saving any amount to retire early. This is the spectrum:
10% takes 40 years to retire
20% takes 30
30% takes 24
40% takes 19
50% takes 15
60% takes 12
70% takes 9
You can do any of those depending on how extreme you wanna be. Yeah you don't wanna live off your friends and be a freeloader but also you can def retire early especially if earn anywhere near 6 figures.
It might take a few months but buy a trailer outright. I live in Columbus and every month or two there are a couple going for 20k or so. All of a sudden you only pay lot rent of like 300, include all of your other bills and you might be paying 1500 a month. Add a roommate and now you pay 750 give or take. If you make 1500 a week after taxes theoretically you could save 5250 of that 6k a month, or 87.5 percent. No it won't work out that way. You will go out to eat, movies, unforseen expenses, etc etc but yes you can most definitely save over 50% of your income especially when you make over 70-80k a year.
Another thing i would like to point out is if you fail you still succeed. Nobody will say "oh no i ONLY saved 35 percent this year" and you dont have to do this plan forever. 5-6 years and you have a substantial nestegg. Going back to 1500 a week, if you only save 50% that is 39,000 saved in a year, give it 5 years and you saved 200,000 plus interest on investments. In just 5 years you created about 260k in wealth. If you do that for 10 years it's about 600k+ coz interest compounds, do that for 15 years and you have well over a million dollars. And that's just at 50% for someone that makes about 100k a year before taxes.
Edit: a more realistic expectation if you make less. Lets say you get 40k a year after taxes. You can only save 30% which is on the lower end of FIRE. That is still over 12k a year. 10 years down the road and you have invested 120k and after compounding should be around 200k. We aren't even talking about raises, spliting bills with roomates/significant others, extra money you didn't see coming in or side hustles but while the fire movement is meant for people making more money anybody can try to save.