The Finnish forest is not in Finland! our little Vermont-based trio plays some of these pieces and refer to the rhythm as "stretchy" (more 7/8 in feel), but I like your more precise way of breaking this down. This definitely demands more study. You will be hearing from me! Thank you very much.
Hi Emelie. As a teacher of fiddle, I really appreciate your comment about intonation and vibrato. I try to avoid vibrato for quite some time when playing examples for my students. I’m sure you do, too.
Absolutely ! I do not teach vibrato until the student has a steady-enough intonation ! Some students really want to learn it and try to get it by themselves but I'm really strict about that. Glad to hear I'm not the only teacher thinking this way ^^
Super interesting topic! I love finnskogspols and I'm probably really bad at getting the rythm right. So thank you for this lesson, it was very informative! I have also heard how different musicians play it very differently. Some really do play just straight Calypso while others have that funny rythm that is so interesting and SOOO hard to imitate. I've been a little confused about it to be honest. But this made it a bit clearer for me! PS: Finnskogen finns föga att återfinna i Finland, fastän Finland fortgående förblir fullt utav fullkomligt förträfflig finsk skog. 😉
Ghihihi det var en bra en ^^ YES, different musicians vary the rhythm a lot and in different places in a tune you can find the rhythm slightly different, even played by the same musician ! And as said, some pros do play a bar or two of "calypso" here and there but the difficulty is to be able to NOT play calypso at will - which is the hard thing to get in the beginning. I hope you can manage to do this at will you too =)
Hi Emilie! I just found this nice channel, love your "geeking"😊Interesting topics.I am a fiddle player myself and i has not to much of the music theori so by looking at some of your videos i learned alot more! I play mostly Røros music, but im very into Dalarna too🎶🎵🎻Greetings from Røros.
I can definitely see how just a slight shift in rhythm will give you calypso. The dotted variation you played definitely had a Caribbean feel to it more so than the straight.
I had a long discussion with a music teacher friend about the rhythmic variations of Springar in Norway. He wanted to say that the variations were the same kind as Balkan additive rhythms, you just need to find the number of small values to «fill out» each beat in an additive way. I strongly disagreed with that, the beats are stretched, not added to. A better comparison would be the Viennese waltz, which is a 3/4 rhythm but the beats are unequal.
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland! Thank you for your excellent and crystal-clear instruction here - and your willingness to not shy away from important detail :-)
The Finnish forest is not in Finland. The Finnish forest is not in Finland. The Finnish forest is not in Finland. I did it! YAY!!! 😁 That tune sounds amazing. I took a human geography class in college as a filler. It turns out that it was one of the most interesting college classes that I have ever taken. He used an overhead projector and a kodak slide projector to teach the class. It was my classmates cell phone going off reminded me that I was no longer living back in the 80's. The history that you described of the people fell in line with what I learned in that class. I really love how you add in the history of the music and where it came from and how it evolved as well as how it is played. Well done.
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland. Your videos are very interesting, relaxing and meticulous. You do an amazing job for traditional music! Greetings from Poland.
I keep feeling this rhythm as (3+3+2)/8 where the first grouping of 3 is played as a pair of dotted 8th notes. It’s kind of bizarre to think of it as an additive rhythm and a divisive rhythm at the same time, where the length of each pulse can be described as 3:3:2, but the long pulses are divided in 2 not 3.
Exactly, that's why it's not fully correct to write it as 3+3+2 - because the long beats (especially the 1) are divided in two, not three. But thinking 3+3+2 can help to understand the length of each beat. Just remember that sometimes the first beat is actually slightly longer than the second one, too ;)
@@EmelieWaldken I have also heard tunes in which is short beat is divided into 3 equal parts! One of my favorite tunes to play is Polska Efter Anders Olsson from Mats Berglund’s trio record. The short beat is divided into 2 on each phrase except for the last one where it is played as 8th note triplets. So the beat with a duration of “3” is actually two notes and the beat with a duration of “2” is actually 3 notes. Adam Neely did a video about the concept of “nested tuplets,” and sometimes it is easier for me to think of it that way.
After living in a culture that does a waltz as 123. Songs and reels as 1234 it took a bit to do Jigs right with back up guitar for fiddle. Slip gigs I still avoid. Not sure at all how one would do a guitar back up for those kind of tunes. I think I’d need a live fiddler in front of me going slow at first. Very interesting!
Ghihi I can imagine. We also do waltzes as 123 and reels as 1234 here (although reels aren't common anymore), but we also like our uneven rhythms very dearly ! I'm not sure about the guitar either. In any case not doing polyrhythmic, nope, really not. But perhaps the "ta-ki-ta-kita" can be a start.
Hi ! Thanks for the video, it's awesome ! I was wondering why you were talking about a 5/8 as similar to those pols, when for me, it's much closer to an 8. Care to explain? I don't see it close to 5 at all. However it is very similar to an 8 divided in 3-3-2. Thanks a lot !
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland. Nice one! I really love your videos: very entertaininng and informative. Thanks a lot for introducing me to this weird, crooked type of polska! 🥰 You say it is a fiddle-only tune: I wonder how (and most of all if) it would work on my English concertina. Buttons and bellows are quite opposite to strings and bow😅
Thank you ! Yeah no idea for how to adapt to concertina, the bellow isn't that far from a bow in how it can give energy to the music, but the blue notes don't work...
I am planning to try this (new to me) rythm. Currently taking up the fiddle again (without vibrato). And I did get to the "Finnish" but found that I was not in Finland (;
I first game across Finskogspols a few months ago on a compilation of Norwegian folk music (which makes sense given the location where this song is from) so cool to find your explanation! Made my day! Here is the link for the other Norwegian folk music ua-cam.com/video/BihYMeir2YM/v-deo.html
Thank you for this explanation of the Finnskogpols. Are you familiar with "Finnskogpolser" on CNS's (Chateau Neuf Spelemannslag) CD Curing Norwegian Stiffness? Given they are professional musicians I gather their interpretation of the rhythm is correct.
I didn't know either that spelmannslag nor the album, just listened to the tune in question... and it's quite a mess. The playing is really clean and the rhythm seems to be into place when played by the fiddles and flutes, but completely dotted by the trumpets ! Basically the style is too jazzy to be a good example of finnskogspols.
Listened to a few more tunes on the album, basically they're... not getting the traditional rhythms at all. They flatten a lot of stuff to fit into a more swing/jazz style. It's interesting arrangements and versions but it's very far from a good example of trad music.
@@EmelieWaldken It's a group that doesn't seem too active anymore, but composed of professional Norwegian musicians. Yes, it appears to be geared toward the "big band" and jazz band style. It was one of the first non-Finnish bands I discovered in my journey into Nordic folk music 2 decades ago. My main passion is the Finnish side of folk music (both the fiddle-based pelimanni music of the west, with its origins in Sweden, and the Finno-Ugric more vocal-oriented music from the east, with its more unusual (to western ears) harmonies and rhythms. I can hear from there the difference between the traditional fiddling and playing for dancing, and all the other modernisations of folk music. Personally I like the modern developments as I am not surrounded by the folk dance culture and I appreciate all (or most) of the ideas and creativity that go into the modern developments, but also understand the need to keep the traditions alive.
@@pagophilus I still have so much to explore and learn about folk music from Finland ! And I totally join you about enjoying modern developments of folk music actually, I like many modern stuff mashed with traditional tunes and styles, no problem ! I just underline what is a good example of finnskogspols playing or not when the video is about learning the tradition ;)
Very interesting. The rhythm is really amazing. Thanks Emelie
It definitely is =)
The Finnish forest is not in Finland! our little Vermont-based trio plays some of these pieces and refer to the rhythm as "stretchy" (more 7/8 in feel), but I like your more precise way of breaking this down. This definitely demands more study. You will be hearing from me! Thank you very much.
Hi Emelie. As a teacher of fiddle, I really appreciate your comment about intonation and vibrato. I try to avoid vibrato for quite some time when playing examples for my students. I’m sure you do, too.
Absolutely ! I do not teach vibrato until the student has a steady-enough intonation ! Some students really want to learn it and try to get it by themselves but I'm really strict about that. Glad to hear I'm not the only teacher thinking this way ^^
Super interesting topic! I love finnskogspols and I'm probably really bad at getting the rythm right. So thank you for this lesson, it was very informative!
I have also heard how different musicians play it very differently. Some really do play just straight Calypso while others have that funny rythm that is so interesting and SOOO hard to imitate. I've been a little confused about it to be honest. But this made it a bit clearer for me!
PS: Finnskogen finns föga att återfinna i Finland, fastän Finland fortgående förblir fullt utav fullkomligt förträfflig finsk skog.
😉
Ghihihi det var en bra en ^^
YES, different musicians vary the rhythm a lot and in different places in a tune you can find the rhythm slightly different, even played by the same musician ! And as said, some pros do play a bar or two of "calypso" here and there but the difficulty is to be able to NOT play calypso at will - which is the hard thing to get in the beginning. I hope you can manage to do this at will you too =)
That's a good philosophy to strive for - being able to play both and able to choose when to do which.
Thank you! I'm sure I'll get there in the end. 😊
Wow! Really really great introduction! Thank you so much for putting this together and making it so informative :)
Hi Emilie! I just found this nice channel, love your "geeking"😊Interesting topics.I am a fiddle player myself and i has not to much of the music theori so by looking at some of your videos i learned alot more! I play mostly Røros music, but im very into Dalarna too🎶🎵🎻Greetings from Røros.
Haaa Røros repertoire is one of my favourites !! Tack för ditt fina meddelande =)
I can definitely see how just a slight shift in rhythm will give you calypso. The dotted variation you played definitely had a Caribbean feel to it more so than the straight.
That's exactly it ! As soon as one dots the 2-2-1 rhythm, it's possible to clap a straight overhead pulse on top and it gets latino/Caribbean ^^
I had a long discussion with a music teacher friend about the rhythmic variations of Springar in Norway. He wanted to say that the variations were the same kind as Balkan additive rhythms, you just need to find the number of small values to «fill out» each beat in an additive way. I strongly disagreed with that, the beats are stretched, not added to. A better comparison would be the Viennese waltz, which is a 3/4 rhythm but the beats are unequal.
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland!
Thank you for your excellent and crystal-clear instruction here - and your willingness to not shy away from important detail :-)
I'm glad you found it clear, it's not easy at all to explain (I feel I've used the word "straight" about many different things in this video ahem).
Just got home, and new Scandi Folk! 🕰️❤️
Yup, I try every Sunday evening (for Europe time zones at least) but some weeks I don't manage.
@@EmelieWaldken It was perfect timing. At least for me.
The finnish forest is not in Finland !
Thanks for covering that topic, I've learned some but it's hard to keep the beat correctly through the tune
It's definitely difficult ! I personally focus entirely on the "1-and-2" and then a little bounce.
Love it. Det svänger så gött, mina trakters takter. Tack för en bra video på den !
The Finnish forest is not in Finland. The Finnish forest is not in Finland. The Finnish forest is not in Finland. I did it! YAY!!! 😁
That tune sounds amazing. I took a human geography class in college as a filler. It turns out that it was one of the most interesting college classes that I have ever taken. He used an overhead projector and a kodak slide projector to teach the class. It was my classmates cell phone going off reminded me that I was no longer living back in the 80's. The history that you described of the people fell in line with what I learned in that class. I really love how you add in the history of the music and where it came from and how it evolved as well as how it is played. Well done.
Thanks a lot ! And nope, the Finnish Forest is not in Finland.
Listened to it three times?
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland. Your videos are very interesting, relaxing and meticulous. You do an amazing job for traditional music! Greetings from Poland.
I keep feeling this rhythm as (3+3+2)/8 where the first grouping of 3 is played as a pair of dotted 8th notes. It’s kind of bizarre to think of it as an additive rhythm and a divisive rhythm at the same time, where the length of each pulse can be described as 3:3:2, but the long pulses are divided in 2 not 3.
Exactly, that's why it's not fully correct to write it as 3+3+2 - because the long beats (especially the 1) are divided in two, not three.
But thinking 3+3+2 can help to understand the length of each beat. Just remember that sometimes the first beat is actually slightly longer than the second one, too ;)
@@EmelieWaldken I have also heard tunes in which is short beat is divided into 3 equal parts! One of my favorite tunes to play is Polska Efter Anders Olsson from Mats Berglund’s trio record. The short beat is divided into 2 on each phrase except for the last one where it is played as 8th note triplets. So the beat with a duration of “3” is actually two notes and the beat with a duration of “2” is actually 3 notes. Adam Neely did a video about the concept of “nested tuplets,” and sometimes it is easier for me to think of it that way.
The Finnish forest is not in Finland 😄, thanks a million for all the advices and explanations !
Haha you're welcome =)
Very instructive! Thanks Emelie!
It is very interesting, thank you !
After living in a culture that does a waltz as 123. Songs and reels as 1234 it took a bit to do Jigs right with back up guitar for fiddle. Slip gigs I still avoid. Not sure at all how one would do a guitar back up for those kind of tunes. I think I’d need a live fiddler in front of me going slow at first. Very interesting!
Ghihi I can imagine. We also do waltzes as 123 and reels as 1234 here (although reels aren't common anymore), but we also like our uneven rhythms very dearly !
I'm not sure about the guitar either. In any case not doing polyrhythmic, nope, really not. But perhaps the "ta-ki-ta-kita" can be a start.
Hi ! Thanks for the video, it's awesome !
I was wondering why you were talking about a 5/8 as similar to those pols, when for me, it's much closer to an 8. Care to explain? I don't see it close to 5 at all. However it is very similar to an 8 divided in 3-3-2. Thanks a lot !
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland. Nice one! I really love your videos: very entertaininng and informative. Thanks a lot for introducing me to this weird, crooked type of polska! 🥰 You say it is a fiddle-only tune: I wonder how (and most of all if) it would work on my English concertina. Buttons and bellows are quite opposite to strings and bow😅
Thank you ! Yeah no idea for how to adapt to concertina, the bellow isn't that far from a bow in how it can give energy to the music, but the blue notes don't work...
@@EmelieWaldken You're almost as fast in answering as you are clear in explaining 🤣🤣🤣
@@alexardov If I'm on UA-cam when one posts a comment, then yep ;)
"Music of the devil." So it's the original ℌ𝔢𝔞𝔳𝔶 𝔐𝔢𝔱𝔞𝔩! * air guitar riff! * 🤘🤘
DEFINITELY
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland! Thank you for this remarkable lesson in finnskogspols.
Yes, one can note that it's not Finska skogen - The Finnish forest, but Finnskogen - the Finn Forest. 🇫🇮🇸🇪
I am planning to try this (new to me) rythm. Currently taking up the fiddle again (without vibrato). And I did get to the "Finnish" but found that I was not in Finland (;
I first game across Finskogspols a few months ago on a compilation of Norwegian folk music (which makes sense given the location where this song is from) so cool to find your explanation! Made my day! Here is the link for the other Norwegian folk music ua-cam.com/video/BihYMeir2YM/v-deo.html
Thank you for this explanation of the Finnskogpols. Are you familiar with "Finnskogpolser" on CNS's (Chateau Neuf Spelemannslag) CD Curing Norwegian Stiffness? Given they are professional musicians I gather their interpretation of the rhythm is correct.
I didn't know either that spelmannslag nor the album, just listened to the tune in question... and it's quite a mess. The playing is really clean and the rhythm seems to be into place when played by the fiddles and flutes, but completely dotted by the trumpets ! Basically the style is too jazzy to be a good example of finnskogspols.
Listened to a few more tunes on the album, basically they're... not getting the traditional rhythms at all. They flatten a lot of stuff to fit into a more swing/jazz style. It's interesting arrangements and versions but it's very far from a good example of trad music.
@@EmelieWaldken It's a group that doesn't seem too active anymore, but composed of professional Norwegian musicians. Yes, it appears to be geared toward the "big band" and jazz band style. It was one of the first non-Finnish bands I discovered in my journey into Nordic folk music 2 decades ago.
My main passion is the Finnish side of folk music (both the fiddle-based pelimanni music of the west, with its origins in Sweden, and the Finno-Ugric more vocal-oriented music from the east, with its more unusual (to western ears) harmonies and rhythms. I can hear from there the difference between the traditional fiddling and playing for dancing, and all the other modernisations of folk music. Personally I like the modern developments as I am not surrounded by the folk dance culture and I appreciate all (or most) of the ideas and creativity that go into the modern developments, but also understand the need to keep the traditions alive.
@@pagophilus I still have so much to explore and learn about folk music from Finland ! And I totally join you about enjoying modern developments of folk music actually, I like many modern stuff mashed with traditional tunes and styles, no problem ! I just underline what is a good example of finnskogspols playing or not when the video is about learning the tradition ;)
Finnskogspols has a fancy rhytm.
That it definitely does =)
Jättebra lektioner men mera musikvideor hade varit trevligt!
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland! Love your videos, I find them soothing--I play guitar!
Where's that bass drum sound coming from? It kind of hurts my ears...
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland! Brilliant video thank you
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland.
Super interesting!
I know Emelie is a pro, but isn't she wonderful?
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland!
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland. Thanks so much for this video.
I'm a simple English musician - I'm confused!
^^ By the unusual words, by the complex geographical/historical things or by the rhythm ?
@@EmelieWaldken All of the above but mostly the rhythm.
It _kind of_ sounds like a syncopated 4/4 sometimes
The finnish forest is not in finland ! Thank you!!! Merci !
The Finnish forest is not in Finland
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland. 👹
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland ❤
The finnish forest aint in Finland
The Finnish Forest is not it Finland👍
The Finnish Forest is not in Finland!