I feel like he knew a bit more than he let on because the first attack power he saw listed was 100, and the next was 1500/2000 which he didn't even flinch at. He didn't even ask the life total which is important because if max life was 1000 this card would have been pretty good.
Yeah, his analysis was awesome! With Morganite I was screaming at the monitor yelling "like Vintage, there isn't that many turns! It's not worth it man!"
@@iikomaa2389 I wouldn't say that everyone knows that, since most [people who know the game but don't play it] know it from the anime, where 4000LP is common.
Taylor around the office: "How do you do so well on the magic channel?" Carl: "Well sometimes when we run low on ideas, I ask Mengu if he..." Taylor: "Say no more!"
The problem with MTG/Yugioh crossovers is that the Yugioh person will say "3 turns and it's over!" and the MTG person will think "okay that's very fast but still reasonable" but what they don't know is that the Yugioh player means 3 turns TOTAL, not 3 turns for each player 😅
@@gasasmk "What do you mean you're not trying to win on my first upkeep before a full turn cycle has completed? Were you looking for the Legacy players maybe?"
I've had to explain this in reverse to people who've only played YGO. Their game is so degen they count turns different from every other card game lol.
I agree. Hell, until the Link era (well, technically when Mekk Knights came out) the importance of even having a playmat wasn't a thing because it didn't matter what zone anything was played in (since pendulums had their own zones back then)
Omg finally someone mentioned Faerie Macabre, Magic's closest analogue to a Yugioh hand trap. It's a tad obscure so I understand it not coming up often or most players not even being aware it exists though, it'd take someone playing for quite a long time with experience in multiple formats like Andrea probably. The difficulty spike from the Rhynos to the Morganite and later cards was massive, fun episode.
@@yusheitslv100sure but faerie macabe is *so* close to a standard yugioh hand trap: the only cost is discarding the creature from your hand to exile 2 cards from a GY
It was even banned TWICE for about 6 months each time around Goat/Reaper format. This was during a time when Konami seemed to want removal to be either 1 for 1 or symmetrical board wipes, rather than opponent-only.
@@Gaming_Groove I feel like such a boomer lol. I quit soon after when the Cyberstein OTK and Yata-lock came out. I remember having the near perfect classic beatdown deck with the 1900 attack normal archfiends, and first edition holo Raigeki, Mirror Force, Jinzo, Dark Hole, Monster Reborn, Change of Heart, Giant Trunade, Harpy's Feather Duster, Imperial Order, Magic Cylinder, Book of Moon, Ring of Destruction, etc. Yes, for all these, I had the rarest versions from the packs, not the starter deck versions. Idk where my cards are now, but wonder how much it would be worth these days. I'd guess first edition MRD Mirror Force and first edition PSV Jinzo would be worth quite a bit? Also, remember when Magic Card rather than Spell Card used to be printed on the cards and the shade of green was slightly different? And when Mechanical Chaser used to be worth hundreds of dollars because it was the only 1850 beat stick among all the 1800s until Gemini Elf came out? After the power creep got to 1900 beat sticks as commons and the original anime ended, I lost interest in the game.
Pretty normal for long-standing games tbh. Some Magic cards that were Modern and Extended powerhouses back in the day wouldn't even pass the benchmark for Standard nowadays.
@@juanquntos7123 i still have my cards that say “magic” instead. Made me happy to see a yugioh boomer like me watching shit like this. I quit the second that they launched pendulums. I still have access to my old dueling network account and have all my old fun decks there. I went straight to magic where the games lasted longer than 2 passes back and forth.
@@MrMarnelmagic has quite a few old powerhouses that are still powerhouses though. I feel like a card like mirror force falling off so hard shows how far Yu-Gi-Oh has fallen as a card game. It has basically become solitaire, with both players just going full combo on their turn 1.
ones which don't care about the drawback, play longer games, and can survive losing a card at the start of the game. The card's been too specific to see play in a higher-tiered deck, though it might someday.
@@sponsoredbymusic Modern paleo builds do as well, at least a fair amount of the time (there's room for debate on the best advantage engines for that deck, but Morganite seems to be one of the better ones).
So it doesn't see play in the top decks of the format, which is some form of Fiendsmith. But it did see play in a few the latest Austin NAWCQ that was 4 days ago, mostly in stun decks like Runick and Barrier Statue. So yes, Time-Tearing Morganite is *technically* a staple, since it is a card to keep in mind if you are playing a longer game and will have a searcher for in a future set so it could become even better. Only time will tell
Another part of what makes Masquerena so strong is that she can link away monsters that have already used their powerful effects like spent once-per-turn negates, so there's very little downside to using the extra monster as material since it has already served its purpose.
So glad Staple or Stinker is back with a vengeance!! Also super happy to see the Yu-Gi-Oh channel back up! Lets goooo. Never stop making these videos. They’ll never go out of style.
Pot of Prosperity is also a good example of how differently the two games phrase certain effects/restrictions. If I remember how the last restriction functions, in Magic's templating, it's effect would read something like: "Cast this spell only if you have not drawn cards this turn except the first card you draw during each of your draw steps. Choose 3 or 6, then exile that many cards from outside the game. Reveal that many cards from the top of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. Until end of turn, you can't draw cards. If a source would deal damage to an opponent this turn, it deals half that damage, rounded down, to that player instead."
The activation criteria is very unclear. I assumed it meant you cant draw additional cards after the effect resolved. Retroactive effects obviously being impossible and the condition no beimg part of the activation criteria before the semicolon.
Time Tearing Morganite isn't really a stinker. It might not be a meta card, but there are a couple of (stun-)decks that can make use of it and it has seen competitive play. I guess you could compare it to Pot Of Extravagance.
Mirror Force slapped in my 2011 7th-grade after-school Duels. I love these kinds of videos as a past Yu-Gi-Oh player and a current Magic player. Thanks!
Great video! I’m a Magic player who played yugioh back in the day, and it’s wild to me that Mirror Force is a “Stinker”. I would love to see some retro format yugioh content; modern yugioh is way over my head, but I’ve recently rediscovered the game via the retro format stuff.
It's only in super modern YGO that it's become outclassed, like half a decade or so, and that's more-so because traps period are nearly useless, and negates are SO prevalent that even if you get to the point where you could activate it, it's probably going to get negated anyway. Plus it's just more useful to have active response. Negates and mid-turn targeted destroys/banishes are WAY more useful. Negates and destroys/banishes can stop a combo which can prevent your opponent from drawing cards into their hand. And a negated effect is essentially a dead card, while a destroyed card may just be graveyard fodder for summoning a secondary line in MP2. I feel like an upgraded mirror force that banished everything might actually be played, but since monsters being sent to the graveyard just... isn't really an issue for most decks... Plus there's just better traps these days to play if you're trying to bait the opponent into caring about backrow, or trying to punish them for targeting backrow blindly. But really, if you're going to play mirror force, you might as well just play Nibiru instead, and if you're already playing all legal copies of nibiru and still have to care about defensive board wipe capabilities... I honestly just really don't know what to say at that point.
Unfortunately not every deck can play it. That what defines a staple: a card that can basically be thrown in almost every deck. Niche cards like time-tearing only benefit certain decks like stun.
When they define "stinker", they are referring to cards that are powerful enough to see general widespread play. Sure, Morgannite does see some fringe play on very specific Decks, but that's not enough to justify it as the "staple" group.
It's also the best card in Paleo, which is a very fair control deck. That deck plays 7+ turns, and this card solo generates a ton of advantage. Morganite is also getting another spell that can search it, so all in all, in a few months, we might be talking about how powerful it is in decks that used to need hand traps
@@DaemonRayge More decks are currently running Morganite than Crow right now because stun strats are unfortunately decently strong and because Paleo decks are running it, meanwhile 1-for-1 GY hate isn't as impactful with Tearlament out of the meta, at this point Crow is just Transaction Rollback hate and at that point you're better off just siding something like Necrovalley or Imperial Iron Wall if you're really struggling against some Lab player at locals...
Pot of Prosperity is comparable to a card called once upon a time in MTG, which is banned in 2 formats. Card is 2 mana but if it is your first spell of the game its free
Great Format. Also good explanation. But Mirror force was a very long time a staple in Yugioh. I think for the first 15 years or so. So his way of thinks was good in this point. A question. I like the Jazz songs in the Background. Do you have the names of it?
Staple or stinker always a great video. Made even better when you have cross play with other games. Now then lets have andrea he doesnt need to play but at least sit in on a game and just have him react to the craziness that is yugioh.
A good way of comparing pot is to once upon a time. Free effect that gives you what you need and "thins" the deck during deckbuilding. The drawback is noticeable but you are not gonna use your whole extra deck, so losing part of it does nothing
Not going to use your whole extra deck for most decks* - There's definitely a few competitive/meta decks that DID/DO use pretty much their whole extra deck in a single duel, or heavily relied on having access to the whole extra deck depending on which cards they had in their starting hand and what part of which combo got negated, like dragon link for example. I've literally gone through over 10 extra deck cards in a single turn with it before under specific circumstances. (going second with a long uninterrupted chain but lots of targets on the field to deal with, so having to abuse recurrence to get multiple link 3-4s on the field.)
It's always fun to hear pro players analyse cards from a different game, but what especially impressive here is how quick he came to his conclussions. Tbf, he basically got Pot right, it's just that he kinda meta gamed himself out of it, so I'd call it a half miss. Very cool video!
Magic player here: I got 5/6 right. I got mirror force wrong because I forgot that yugioh had effects that could destroy traps, which completely changes my evaluation of the card lol. before that i was thinking of settle the wreckage as a comparison, a mtg card that actually saw a decent bit of play, albeit not in legacy or vintage.
Right, it's always been a factor in this game that most instants spend some time in a state equivalent to a non-creature permanent. The ones with the highest potential like Mirror Force were played early on out of lack of other defensive options, which in turn made it common to play a lot of "disenchants." Then there was a period of favoring ones that did less but had more freedom by not being a "when x", like "return target monster to the hand" could be played in response to an attempt to destroy it. Now it's mostly from the hand effects only because the speed is so high that it matters that these can be played before you've taken any turns.
They extra deck still trips people up. Is it a Command Zone? Is it a Wish Board? I've started going with "a separate 15 card hand" in the same way the graveyard is another hand.
Morganite is a staple in particularly annoying floodgate heavy decks, so he was kind of right on that one. Those decks don't care if they handtrap you as they probably already have a TCBOO or Skill Drain that is more important than a single handtrap. I've also seen Sky Strikers use it recently for good effect due to it being a spell and the fact that they don't care about using handtraps
I agree, sometimes those classifications are quite subjective and depend on the deck in which a card is played. For example: I used Morganite in Master Duel in a (more or less) pure Runick Mill deck. I don't use hand trap monsters in that deck, so the downside doesn't matter. Plus: With Runick Fountain (up to 3 extra draws per turn) as well as other cards such as "Card Destruction" and "One Day Of Peace", there is quite a lot of draw power, making sure that I'll draw at least one Morganite most of the time.
unmentioned interaction with I:P Masquerena: if you have Underworld Goddess of the Closed World you can use an opponent's monster as link material despite Masquerena saying only monsters you control
Well, in Underworld Goddess text you can use your opponent's monster. Same goes for I:P+Micro Coder. This happens because sometimes text is there just to describe regular procedures. This is totally that case because I:P effect is to start a regular link summon which is why you can't trigger cards that would trigger when sent to the GY by card effect. This is clarified by the "Immediately after this effect resolves..." The effect already happened and "using materials you control" is just what you do normally when Link summoning. Yu-Gi-Oh is for kids btw :P
I absolutely disagree with Time-Tearing Morganite being a stinker. It is played in Stun (love it or hate it, I don't care) but Stun has been putting up results.
Synchro Zone is also played in Runick Stun and topped many events, I still would not consider it a staple. All that despite Paleo with Morganite being my favorite deck right now 😂 -Johnny
how can a magic player see pot of prosperity mention vintage and legacy and doesn't think of dig through time one of the most broken card in all of magic because it just gives so much card selection
Morganite is a stinker if you playing a combo deck with handtraps. Its a staple in Stun decks since you are grinding the opponent away slowly. So its a bit of both depending on what deck it is and isnt being used in.
Pot of Prosperity is probably more comparable to Once Upon a Time. Both have a reduced cost on the first turn. Once Upon a Time not costing mana on the first turn and Pot of Prosperity's damage reduction not being applicable on the first turn.
I don't think it's correct to say that Morganite is a "stinker". That makes it sound like nobody plays it, but last I checked, it's pretty common in Stun decks. It's certainly not a completely unplayed card like Rampaging Rhynos.
Not only is it a stinker but theres 6 elemental variations of it that also all see no play, with the water one particularly being notable since it shuffles all attacking monsters back.
for me mirror force should be consider a staple, today is not a relevant card but we have to remember that in the early days of the game it was always been played and limited and it is at 3 only since 2014. a nice idea to identify if a card should be if any time during the game history there was a meta where that card was included in some high competitive like deck taht won tournament at that time.
I do think talking about the historical power of the cards is important. Yes now mirror force is a stinker, but it lived most of its life as a boogieman and banned/limited.
As someone that played YuGiOh back in 2004, see Mirror Force as a stinker it hurts a lot. That card was extremely rare and expensive. Everyone in a tournament use that card.
I think some of these need a little bit more context. Mirror force was a staple for like 10 years, so saying that it is a stinker because it hasn't been good in a while doesn't really give the full scope of how good that card used to be. That's like saying that kalia is a bad commander because she's been power crept.
8:00 Time-Tearing Morgante is a powerful card. Its effect that disables the use of card effects from the hand is often meaningless if you build your deck right. And no. Excluding hand traps is NOT one of those ways. Time-Tearing Morgante is not a quick spell and there's good chance it will not ever be in your hand. So why in the hell would you exclude cards in the event this card activates? Having more than one normal summon is insanely powerful. As is drawing two cards per draw phase. If TTM is not active, then your hand traps are armed. If TTM is active, then good thing your hand traps double as something useful to you. What that something is, is for you to figure out.
Tbh I think the explanation why Morganite isnt a staple is another. Of course you cant use hand effects for the rest of the turn, which includes hand traps but it also includes summoning effects and other hand related effects as well and the most important point why it is bad is that it only generates advantage over time. You even go only neutral next turn and the double summon is to inconsistent to build your deck around or can give you advantage. It is in fact a card which only gets good when you live multiple turns but at start does nearly nothing and gives you a restriction.
Morganite only stops you from activating monster effects from the hand. It doesn't stop inherent Summons (so you can still use Fenrir, Diabellstar, even Cyber Dragon with Clockwork Night...) and doesn't stop the trap "hand traps" i.e. Imperm and Red Reboot. Stun is actually relatively good in the current meta, all things considered, and with Paleo lists topping regionals thanks to renewed interest in the archetype, it's a staple in that deck. It's also worth noting a lot of meta decks can now play through 3 hand traps and most hand trap design is 1 for 1, while a stun or control strategy that's aiming for high card value (either a floodgate blowout, or something like abusing Transaction Rollback) will snowball advantage if they live past turn 2. So you're just wrong, the card is objectively good, but niche.
I used to play Yugioh back at the end of the 00s, but the powercreep in the game now sounds so insane. How is it fun, when everybody can win in basically 2 turns?
Tbf, in the current meta pot of prosperity doesn't see play. The extra deck is just too tight at the moment for basically all top decks. So he was kinda right.
I'd say the only way to use that. Spell card the time, Terry, whatever would be after you're done using all your abilities from your hand it's a pot of greed at the end and I don't know and honestly I would just use it at towards the end of my play. OK, I've done all the nonsense. I wanna do all the shenanigans from my hand and that's like say the last card. I can play whatever else there might be in my hand I don't wanna play yet. I play providing.There's nothing in my hand that I might want to play during my opponent's term which means once my turn begins again.And I get to pretty much potted green.Yeah it is not that good of a card But it's not the worst
I feel like mirror force is maligned, sure it's a stinker now, but when yugioh first started and combat was the only way to win outside of exodia, it was good, good enough to be restricted!
I liked Andrea comparing Yu-GiOh to legacy. Often Magic players are a bit dismissive of Yu-Gi-Oh so it was nice to see someone pointing out the similarities.
Check out the competitive power of I:P Masquerena in this recent NAWCQ decklist by winner Aditya Dharap: bit.ly/3zn67ZP
"The older you get the more the graveyard is relevant" is so accidentally dark and I love it
Andrea had such great sense to compare Yugioh to vintage MTG to evaluate card quality. I hope he gets another chance to show off his great analysis
I feel like he knew a bit more than he let on because the first attack power he saw listed was 100, and the next was 1500/2000 which he didn't even flinch at. He didn't even ask the life total which is important because if max life was 1000 this card would have been pretty good.
Yeah, his analysis was awesome! With Morganite I was screaming at the monitor yelling "like Vintage, there isn't that many turns! It's not worth it man!"
@@fredwin Imo nearly everyone knows that you have 8000LP in Yugioh. I dont play yugioh and know that. I guess Andreah will know this too
@@iikomaa2389 Yeah exactly, except he said he didn't know, which is my point. He clearly knows.
@@iikomaa2389 I wouldn't say that everyone knows that, since most [people who know the game but don't play it] know it from the anime, where 4000LP is common.
Staple or Stinker will always be a staple!
We're always happy to provide you with all of your office supply needs!
-Taylor
Always a Staple… Never a Stinker.
Andrea Mengucci will always be a stapler!
Taylor around the office: "How do you do so well on the magic channel?"
Carl: "Well sometimes when we run low on ideas, I ask Mengu if he..."
Taylor: "Say no more!"
@@2LettersSho "And sometimes I pull out my special hat!"
And I'll do it again, too! 😎
-Taylor
Yeah, Mengu is a staple in the Cardmarket meta lol
2:05 "this is a bit of a newer card" shows dd crow, a card from 2007,
technically correct because Mirror force is from 2002.
Old is still newer than ancient, after all! 😎
-Taylor
and it can make a card „fizzle“ 😮 Anyways, keep up the good and consistent work ❤
@@silastopolejudges all around the world want to have a word with you
The problem with MTG/Yugioh crossovers is that the Yugioh person will say "3 turns and it's over!" and the MTG person will think "okay that's very fast but still reasonable" but what they don't know is that the Yugioh player means 3 turns TOTAL, not 3 turns for each player 😅
Modern players will think that's reasonable. Vintage player will ask what takes them so long 🤣
@@gasasmk "What do you mean you're not trying to win on my first upkeep before a full turn cycle has completed? Were you looking for the Legacy players maybe?"
Meanwhile me in draft: has 10 lands out
I've had to explain this in reverse to people who've only played YGO. Their game is so degen they count turns different from every other card game lol.
@@FalseHerald I don't play the paper game but it seems like Pokemon TCG Pocket at least also counts them the Yugioh way
You should have a yugioh playmat for the cards to show zones
Right
I agree. Hell, until the Link era (well, technically when Mekk Knights came out) the importance of even having a playmat wasn't a thing because it didn't matter what zone anything was played in (since pendulums had their own zones back then)
Omg finally someone mentioned Faerie Macabre, Magic's closest analogue to a Yugioh hand trap. It's a tad obscure so I understand it not coming up often or most players not even being aware it exists though, it'd take someone playing for quite a long time with experience in multiple formats like Andrea probably.
The difficulty spike from the Rhynos to the Morganite and later cards was massive, fun episode.
In mtg, most countermagic are hand traps because they're in hand
@@yusheitslv100sure but faerie macabe is *so* close to a standard yugioh hand trap: the only cost is discarding the creature from your hand to exile 2 cards from a GY
"I think you gave me a thumbnail" is the coldest youtube insult lmao
Insane that Mirror Force is a stinker now. It used to be a huge staple back in the day and was even limited
It was even banned TWICE for about 6 months each time around Goat/Reaper format. This was during a time when Konami seemed to want removal to be either 1 for 1 or symmetrical board wipes, rather than opponent-only.
@@Gaming_Groove I feel like such a boomer lol. I quit soon after when the Cyberstein OTK and Yata-lock came out. I remember having the near perfect classic beatdown deck with the 1900 attack normal archfiends, and first edition holo Raigeki, Mirror Force, Jinzo, Dark Hole, Monster Reborn, Change of Heart, Giant Trunade, Harpy's Feather Duster, Imperial Order, Magic Cylinder, Book of Moon, Ring of Destruction, etc. Yes, for all these, I had the rarest versions from the packs, not the starter deck versions. Idk where my cards are now, but wonder how much it would be worth these days. I'd guess first edition MRD Mirror Force and first edition PSV Jinzo would be worth quite a bit?
Also, remember when Magic Card rather than Spell Card used to be printed on the cards and the shade of green was slightly different? And when Mechanical Chaser used to be worth hundreds of dollars because it was the only 1850 beat stick among all the 1800s until Gemini Elf came out? After the power creep got to 1900 beat sticks as commons and the original anime ended, I lost interest in the game.
Pretty normal for long-standing games tbh. Some Magic cards that were Modern and Extended powerhouses back in the day wouldn't even pass the benchmark for Standard nowadays.
@@juanquntos7123 i still have my cards that say “magic” instead. Made me happy to see a yugioh boomer like me watching shit like this. I quit the second that they launched pendulums. I still have access to my old dueling network account and have all my old fun decks there. I went straight to magic where the games lasted longer than 2 passes back and forth.
@@MrMarnelmagic has quite a few old powerhouses that are still powerhouses though. I feel like a card like mirror force falling off so hard shows how far Yu-Gi-Oh has fallen as a card game. It has basically become solitaire, with both players just going full combo on their turn 1.
Nice to see Andrea's game sense having some carry over to entirely different mechanics, very astute obsevations.
He was actually pretty spot-on for Time-Tearing Morganite in that it is a staple in decks that don't care too much about the drawback
ones which don't care about the drawback, play longer games, and can survive losing a card at the start of the game. The card's been too specific to see play in a higher-tiered deck, though it might someday.
yeah, but those decks are ass
The only deck I've seen that plays Morganite with relative results is Stun, but that's about it, as far as I can remember 😅
@@sponsoredbymusic Modern paleo builds do as well, at least a fair amount of the time (there's room for debate on the best advantage engines for that deck, but Morganite seems to be one of the better ones).
So it doesn't see play in the top decks of the format, which is some form of Fiendsmith. But it did see play in a few the latest Austin NAWCQ that was 4 days ago, mostly in stun decks like Runick and Barrier Statue.
So yes, Time-Tearing Morganite is *technically* a staple, since it is a card to keep in mind if you are playing a longer game and will have a searcher for in a future set so it could become even better.
Only time will tell
Another part of what makes Masquerena so strong is that she can link away monsters that have already used their powerful effects like spent once-per-turn negates, so there's very little downside to using the extra monster as material since it has already served its purpose.
Tbh, Taylor has been doing a great job!
Just thinking the same thing. I find he’s a lot more comfortable than when he started. He’s gonna bring the channel back!
I agree, I like him so far
Thanks for the love! I'm very excited to be here and have lots of plans for the future of the channel! 😄
-Taylor
This format needs a third option for situational cards tbh. He was spot on on the analysis for morganite.
So glad Staple or Stinker is back with a vengeance!! Also super happy to see the Yu-Gi-Oh channel back up! Lets goooo. Never stop making these videos. They’ll never go out of style.
Pot of Prosperity is also a good example of how differently the two games phrase certain effects/restrictions.
If I remember how the last restriction functions, in Magic's templating, it's effect would read something like:
"Cast this spell only if you have not drawn cards this turn except the first card you draw during each of your draw steps.
Choose 3 or 6, then exile that many cards from outside the game. Reveal that many cards from the top of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. Until end of turn, you can't draw cards.
If a source would deal damage to an opponent this turn, it deals half that damage, rounded down, to that player instead."
The activation criteria is very unclear. I assumed it meant you cant draw additional cards after the effect resolved. Retroactive effects obviously being impossible and the condition no beimg part of the activation criteria before the semicolon.
Time Tearing Morganite isn't really a stinker. It might not be a meta card, but there are a couple of (stun-)decks that can make use of it and it has seen competitive play. I guess you could compare it to Pot Of Extravagance.
Mirror Force slapped in my 2011 7th-grade after-school Duels.
I love these kinds of videos as a past Yu-Gi-Oh player and a current Magic player.
Thanks!
Ah, now I see why this channel was revived. So you had more videos to put Mengu in.
I always love these types of vids whether its a magic player, a yugioh player, a ptcg player, anything. Its just fun seeing their thought process 😀
these are always very fun to watch! Do more of them
Im a simple man i see mengu i klick on the video.
Modern Yu-Gi-Oh, such a fun game, turn 1 combo and it's over. Plus the gigantic learning curve, very very fun
Bro gets it.
Amazing series.
Great video! I’m a Magic player who played yugioh back in the day, and it’s wild to me that Mirror Force is a “Stinker”.
I would love to see some retro format yugioh content; modern yugioh is way over my head, but I’ve recently rediscovered the game via the retro format stuff.
It's only in super modern YGO that it's become outclassed, like half a decade or so, and that's more-so because traps period are nearly useless, and negates are SO prevalent that even if you get to the point where you could activate it, it's probably going to get negated anyway.
Plus it's just more useful to have active response. Negates and mid-turn targeted destroys/banishes are WAY more useful. Negates and destroys/banishes can stop a combo which can prevent your opponent from drawing cards into their hand. And a negated effect is essentially a dead card, while a destroyed card may just be graveyard fodder for summoning a secondary line in MP2.
I feel like an upgraded mirror force that banished everything might actually be played, but since monsters being sent to the graveyard just... isn't really an issue for most decks...
Plus there's just better traps these days to play if you're trying to bait the opponent into caring about backrow, or trying to punish them for targeting backrow blindly.
But really, if you're going to play mirror force, you might as well just play Nibiru instead, and if you're already playing all legal copies of nibiru and still have to care about defensive board wipe capabilities... I honestly just really don't know what to say at that point.
Time-Tearing Morganite is seeing some combo play in specific decks, so I don't think its a complete stinker.
In stun decks, so yes it is a stinker lol
Unfortunately not every deck can play it. That what defines a staple: a card that can basically be thrown in almost every deck. Niche cards like time-tearing only benefit certain decks like stun.
When they define "stinker", they are referring to cards that are powerful enough to see general widespread play.
Sure, Morgannite does see some fringe play on very specific Decks, but that's not enough to justify it as the "staple" group.
It's also the best card in Paleo, which is a very fair control deck. That deck plays 7+ turns, and this card solo generates a ton of advantage. Morganite is also getting another spell that can search it, so all in all, in a few months, we might be talking about how powerful it is in decks that used to need hand traps
@@DaemonRayge More decks are currently running Morganite than Crow right now because stun strats are unfortunately decently strong and because Paleo decks are running it, meanwhile 1-for-1 GY hate isn't as impactful with Tearlament out of the meta, at this point Crow is just Transaction Rollback hate and at that point you're better off just siding something like Necrovalley or Imperial Iron Wall if you're really struggling against some Lab player at locals...
Pot of Prosperity is comparable to a card called once upon a time in MTG, which is banned in 2 formats. Card is 2 mana but if it is your first spell of the game its free
Great Format. Also good explanation. But Mirror force was a very long time a staple in Yugioh. I think for the first 15 years or so. So his way of thinks was good in this point.
A question. I like the Jazz songs in the Background. Do you have the names of it?
He has one of the best voices and he always seems nervous yet excited its awsome
A lot of people do these types of videos, but I Taylor's the best because of the cards he selects for his quizes
I think the closest comparison for "pot of prosperity" is "once upon a time"
Always love to see Staple or Stinker! I'd love if you ever did one of these for Flesh and Blood!
I love how Andrea manages to talk so much about Magic on the YuGiOh channel
I mean, he probbly only knows Pot of Greed, DM, Blue Eyes, and Exodia.
Staple or stinker always a great video. Made even better when you have cross play with other games.
Now then lets have andrea he doesnt need to play but at least sit in on a game and just have him react to the craziness that is yugioh.
I like that you showed a handtrap before showing morganite.
A good way of comparing pot is to once upon a time. Free effect that gives you what you need and "thins" the deck during deckbuilding. The drawback is noticeable but you are not gonna use your whole extra deck, so losing part of it does nothing
Not going to use your whole extra deck for most decks* - There's definitely a few competitive/meta decks that DID/DO use pretty much their whole extra deck in a single duel, or heavily relied on having access to the whole extra deck depending on which cards they had in their starting hand and what part of which combo got negated, like dragon link for example. I've literally gone through over 10 extra deck cards in a single turn with it before under specific circumstances. (going second with a long uninterrupted chain but lots of targets on the field to deal with, so having to abuse recurrence to get multiple link 3-4s on the field.)
Never played Yu-Gi-Oh. Still nailed all six. Hey, maybe I should check this game out.
Y’all are great! I would love to see Tay really try to stump Mengu.
Glad to see this series is back. Also, the production seems to have improved too
It's always fun to hear pro players analyse cards from a different game, but what especially impressive here is how quick he came to his conclussions. Tbf, he basically got Pot right, it's just that he kinda meta gamed himself out of it, so I'd call it a half miss. Very cool video!
"Pot of Win the Game" lmaoo I used to run it in a deck that barely cared about the extra deck. So efficient
Always love Staple or Stinker! I'd love to see some players tackle Pokemon TCG (or those players tackling Yu-Gi-Oh/Magic)
Magic player here: I got 5/6 right. I got mirror force wrong because I forgot that yugioh had effects that could destroy traps, which completely changes my evaluation of the card lol. before that i was thinking of settle the wreckage as a comparison, a mtg card that actually saw a decent bit of play, albeit not in legacy or vintage.
Right, it's always been a factor in this game that most instants spend some time in a state equivalent to a non-creature permanent. The ones with the highest potential like Mirror Force were played early on out of lack of other defensive options, which in turn made it common to play a lot of "disenchants." Then there was a period of favoring ones that did less but had more freedom by not being a "when x", like "return target monster to the hand" could be played in response to an attempt to destroy it. Now it's mostly from the hand effects only because the speed is so high that it matters that these can be played before you've taken any turns.
They extra deck still trips people up. Is it a Command Zone? Is it a Wish Board? I've started going with "a separate 15 card hand" in the same way the graveyard is another hand.
Morganite is a staple in particularly annoying floodgate heavy decks, so he was kind of right on that one. Those decks don't care if they handtrap you as they probably already have a TCBOO or Skill Drain that is more important than a single handtrap. I've also seen Sky Strikers use it recently for good effect due to it being a spell and the fact that they don't care about using handtraps
I agree, sometimes those classifications are quite subjective and depend on the deck in which a card is played.
For example: I used Morganite in Master Duel in a (more or less) pure Runick Mill deck.
I don't use hand trap monsters in that deck, so the downside doesn't matter.
Plus: With Runick Fountain (up to 3 extra draws per turn) as well as other cards such as "Card Destruction" and "One Day Of Peace", there is quite a lot of draw power, making sure that I'll draw at least one Morganite most of the time.
Time tearing morganite has been used in stun decks. Also some decks have killed through prosperity.
unmentioned interaction with I:P Masquerena: if you have Underworld Goddess of the Closed World you can use an opponent's monster as link material despite Masquerena saying only monsters you control
Well, in Underworld Goddess text you can use your opponent's monster. Same goes for I:P+Micro Coder. This happens because sometimes text is there just to describe regular procedures. This is totally that case because I:P effect is to start a regular link summon which is why you can't trigger cards that would trigger when sent to the GY by card effect. This is clarified by the "Immediately after this effect resolves..." The effect already happened and "using materials you control" is just what you do normally when Link summoning. Yu-Gi-Oh is for kids btw :P
I absolutely disagree with Time-Tearing Morganite being a stinker. It is played in Stun (love it or hate it, I don't care) but Stun has been putting up results.
Synchro Zone is also played in Runick Stun and topped many events, I still would not consider it a staple. All that despite Paleo with Morganite being my favorite deck right now 😂
-Johnny
I miss the days where mirror force was limited to 1 because it was the BEST TRAP CARD OF ALL YU-GI-OH
Another well done staple or stinker video. Good explanations on the cards and why they're good/bad this time around =D
how can a magic player see pot of prosperity mention vintage and legacy and doesn't think of dig through time one of the most broken card in all of magic because it just gives so much card selection
Morganite is a stinker if you playing a combo deck with handtraps. Its a staple in Stun decks since you are grinding the opponent away slowly.
So its a bit of both depending on what deck it is and isnt being used in.
Taylor I just wanted you to know, you're a great host and we're glad to have you!
Omg :o a new Andrea mengucci veedeo
I used to play Yugi before Magic when Mirror Force was a must-have staple, this hurts so baaad! Anyway, Mengu obv a staple❤🐐🇮🇹
Pot of Prosperity is probably more comparable to Once Upon a Time. Both have a reduced cost on the first turn. Once Upon a Time not costing mana on the first turn and Pot of Prosperity's damage reduction not being applicable on the first turn.
I don't think it's correct to say that Morganite is a "stinker". That makes it sound like nobody plays it, but last I checked, it's pretty common in Stun decks.
It's certainly not a completely unplayed card like Rampaging Rhynos.
Don't know anything at all about yugi-oh, but this was still a fun watch.
As a first gen yugioh kid, I cant believe that Mirror Force is a Stinker now. Thar shit was so broken back in the day
Not only is it a stinker but theres 6 elemental variations of it that also all see no play, with the water one particularly being notable since it shuffles all attacking monsters back.
for me mirror force should be consider a staple, today is not a relevant card but we have to remember that in the early days of the game it was always been played and limited and it is at 3 only since 2014. a nice idea to identify if a card should be if any time during the game history there was a meta where that card was included in some high competitive like deck taht won tournament at that time.
love the content keep it up!
12/10 Mengu is always a staple
We love the veedeos out here
For the Morganite, Mengu should have identified it as "you can't play instants or sorceries this game" which is auto stinker alert.
I do think talking about the historical power of the cards is important. Yes now mirror force is a stinker, but it lived most of its life as a boogieman and banned/limited.
I will say, both Drowning Mirror Force and Storming Mirror Force still see play due to their alternate effects that both don't target nor destroy.
As someone that played YuGiOh back in 2004, see Mirror Force as a stinker it hurts a lot. That card was extremely rare and expensive. Everyone in a tournament use that card.
I think some of these need a little bit more context. Mirror force was a staple for like 10 years, so saying that it is a stinker because it hasn't been good in a while doesn't really give the full scope of how good that card used to be. That's like saying that kalia is a bad commander because she's been power crept.
That's what I thought as well. It's irrelevant now, but it was amazing when it came out and was good for a long time.
The only reason that mirror force isn’t good in the modern game is because the modern game itself isn’t good lol
Isn't it cute to see Yugi-Oh players explain the stack? ^^'
Time tearing morg might not be a staple but it’s for sure not a stinker
The consistency thing is the less relevant drawback of time tearing with the new morganite coming out. The two other points are valid.
Morganite is not a stinker. It sees consistent play in topping stun decks and in fact just topped the North American championship this past weekend.
8:00 Time-Tearing Morgante is a powerful card. Its effect that disables the use of card effects from the hand is often meaningless if you build your deck right. And no. Excluding hand traps is NOT one of those ways. Time-Tearing Morgante is not a quick spell and there's good chance it will not ever be in your hand. So why in the hell would you exclude cards in the event this card activates?
Having more than one normal summon is insanely powerful. As is drawing two cards per draw phase.
If TTM is not active, then your hand traps are armed.
If TTM is active, then good thing your hand traps double as something useful to you. What that something is, is for you to figure out.
Morganite is still waiting to be broken
I love seeing them try to guess
2 minutes in and I'm amazed by the idea that setting a trap on your first turn is "too slow."
Staple or Stinker: Combo edition. Make a Magic player guess if Sunseed Loci is good
If someone showed me sunseed loci I'd assume it's a trick
That's why you show Loci, Dryas, Healer and Twin then figure out if the combo is actually good or not
Rollback Paleozoics, Rollback target Mirror Force
His math is wrong but he keeps getting the correct answers. I feel like a kindergarten teacher.
thinking about yugioh as mtg vintage is the best way to describe the game lol.
Tbh I think the explanation why Morganite isnt a staple is another. Of course you cant use hand effects for the rest of the turn, which includes hand traps but it also includes summoning effects and other hand related effects as well and the most important point why it is bad is that it only generates advantage over time. You even go only neutral next turn and the double summon is to inconsistent to build your deck around or can give you advantage. It is in fact a card which only gets good when you live multiple turns but at start does nearly nothing and gives you a restriction.
Morganite only stops you from activating monster effects from the hand. It doesn't stop inherent Summons (so you can still use Fenrir, Diabellstar, even Cyber Dragon with Clockwork Night...) and doesn't stop the trap "hand traps" i.e. Imperm and Red Reboot. Stun is actually relatively good in the current meta, all things considered, and with Paleo lists topping regionals thanks to renewed interest in the archetype, it's a staple in that deck. It's also worth noting a lot of meta decks can now play through 3 hand traps and most hand trap design is 1 for 1, while a stun or control strategy that's aiming for high card value (either a floodgate blowout, or something like abusing Transaction Rollback) will snowball advantage if they live past turn 2. So you're just wrong, the card is objectively good, but niche.
Oh this guy is good
I used to play Yugioh back at the end of the 00s, but the powercreep in the game now sounds so insane. How is it fun, when everybody can win in basically 2 turns?
What a good veeeeeedio.
Taylor is such a cool host!
The Rarran Meta going strong
Tbf, in the current meta pot of prosperity doesn't see play. The extra deck is just too tight at the moment for basically all top decks. So he was kinda right.
Staple or stinker [in today's meta]
Time Tearing Morganite is not a stinker. It's like the other guy said, depending on the deck it works really well. Dark World for example
nice! more magic and yugioh!
morganite would be a staple for certain stun/control decks tbh
Reads Mirror Force
Andrea:"I'm going to say this a type of card that destroys your opponents attacking monsters"
.............lmao
I'd say the only way to use that. Spell card the time, Terry, whatever would be after you're done using all your abilities from your hand it's a pot of greed at the end and I don't know and honestly I would just use it at towards the end of my play. OK, I've done all the nonsense. I wanna do all the shenanigans from my hand and that's like say the last card. I can play whatever else there might be in my hand I don't wanna play yet. I play providing.There's nothing in my hand that I might want to play during my opponent's term which means once my turn begins again.And I get to pretty much potted green.Yeah it is not that good of a card But it's not the worst
I am a simple man. I see andrea. I click
I loved when he looked at 1300 and was like "that's a large dude"
I feel like mirror force is maligned, sure it's a stinker now, but when yugioh first started and combat was the only way to win outside of exodia, it was good, good enough to be restricted!
I love how he bends the masquerena when he picks it up while talking about pot of prosperity
I liked Andrea comparing Yu-GiOh to legacy. Often Magic players are a bit dismissive of Yu-Gi-Oh so it was nice to see someone pointing out the similarities.
Wait. If Andrea js in this channel does it mean we will get an Cardnarket Mtg video with hun as well 🤔