I love tier lists, and I love it when someone speaks about them with so much enthusiasm and personal experience! It's like hearing a child (albeit, a very learned and intelligent child), steeped deep inside their fantasy world and loving it! Those sound affects and finger gestures add to it. Like at 10:11 when you talk about the Diabolist Hero Talents and at 24:45, and then the Soul Harvester at 24:30, and not to forget the "unicorn vomit of spells coming through" at 25:00 really brings those crazy visuals to mind!
It is hard to swallow that hero talent trees like dark ranger & pack leader have stayed untouched for the entire alpha and beta test phase and will most likely release in this state.
@tylerchapman8856 bruh. B ruh. Brah. Hunter life is the only life. Spin and disengage to leap forward while volleyball down arrows or sending monsters in to fight. Hunters the best. They just dumbed it down and keep BM too basic. MM isn't bad. Visuals need some spice. Lazy devs. Beasties wrath could at least make them go giant or red sparks fly out or something. Easy easy changes to make it more flashy and fun. Rip
It would be cool if Dark Ranger had each auto attack as a misty black arrow and then each ability it cast a larger black misty animation. Poor Rogues 😭
Dark Ranger: Give Aimed Shot its mortal wounds effect back. Every N'th Aimed Shot becomes a Heartpiercer Shot that applies a Necrotic Strike debuff instead absoring X amount of healing. Opens up the possibility with proper tracking to use Aimed Shot for the healing reduction followed up by another Aimed Shot after that absorbs healing. Or they could just bake Mind Games into it instead. I dont feel like getting consistent trap setups is rewarding at all for Hunters in retail, its just another button that u press and everyone saves their cc breaks/dispels for it, Mindgames or Necrotic would fit right into the Dark Ranger fantasy and give Hunters these sort of checkmate positions that arent just overwhelming damage or attrition till deep damp.
for rogue, give them the lvl 20 talent from samuro in hots where you can create duplicates and switch between them. Could do a dnd inspired arcane trickster and give them access to illusion and maybe frost magic.
C works for Master of Harmony. It's just so overshadowed by Conduit that even if it might be good, nobody cares because it doesn't summon in the Celestials. It gives you an extra Thunder Focus Tea which is cool... I guess? I could see it being funny for Blitz proccing an extra two Chi Torpedoes to launch across the map while carrying the flag. Certainly not enough to make Brewmaster compete as a FC with DH getting another retreat or Druid being Druid, but it's something.
I'm not sure if anyone else already pointed it out: The riders of the Apocalypse sadly don't summon the four horsemen from original Naxx, nor the wotlk one, but instead the four horsemen from the legion orderhall campaign (Whitemane, Trollbane, Mograine (the younger) and Nazgrim). Honestly I would've been way more interested in either of the older older versions of the Naxx horsemen, with the wotlk one being more likely as it wouldn't make sense if Alexandros suddenly became a horseman again. The aesthetic for the hero spec is insanely appealing overall, but I've yet to be too impressed with what the actual procs from summoning some of the horsemen do, so I'm hoping their actual pet damage will be decent enough to the point that it still feels impactful to summon them.
@@amurjoeray2790 I'm guessing this reply is in regards to the four horsemen being the ones form the legion campaign? While I agree that it makes sense when it comes to the current lore continuity, it should also be kept in mind that the lore has changed in order to fit the players better, or even to simply be a bit more appealing, so it's not as definitive of a statement as you might think. If you consider, for example, the recent lore books released, (from what I've gathered from relevant content discussing it) the storyline has been written in a way that doesn't make sense when it comes to the timeline. This makes me feel like stating the "lore accuracy" in regards to which version of the death knights we get isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. In my humble opinion the four horsemen from back in the day were a lot more interesting. I still remember sir Zeliek as he was the only paladin in the lore who wasn't abandoned by the Light despite being undead, so getting to know more about those characters would also have been interesting. Let's just say I consider it a wasted opportunity, and I'm 100% fine with you wanting to prioritize the lore accuracy of using the current lineup.
Man, it’s unfortunate that dark ranger is lackluster the way it is considering the fact that there is so much lore behind them, from Nathanos to the banshee queen. Sylvanas is such a pivotal part of the wow saga it seems like such a disservice for them to neglect it so much. I’m not even worried too much about how strong the hero tree is, but for god sake at least add some awesome visuals playing off the banshee lore or the chains. Hope it changes.
Dark ranger should remove auto attack replacing it with 2 dots: Shadow arrow and tainted wound. Aimed shot is replaced with Wailing arrow that explodes any dots to nearby targets and eats x seconds of each dot for each spread leaving a debuff that reduces damage done by 15%. Barrage should be shadow barrage, shadow arrows surround your weapon and firing your next shot triggers all arrows collected.
Feral feels so bad, now... the dot and run playstyle works and feels like Shadowlands. But it's nothing new while arms and ww both feel AMAZING. It's a tough choice for me. I love demolish for arms though, immuning stuns while bursting is fun and they have great utility. WW might be a powerhouse as a very high damage and very tanky spec. However, loss utiltiy/peels than arms.
"visuals animation and fantasy" and goes on to put havoc aldrachi in A. Honest question, have you even played the spec with aldrachi? what animation or fantasy are you talking about?
Void weaver is tragic. So cool, but it feels so wrong being forced into DA over VE and voidform in the void centered talent. DA is a limp noodle CD. I have never liked playing mind spike, which is sort of forced. I do like void torrent, and it fits the fantasy here. The pets I can take or leave. They at least fit the fantasy. And I do think it feels clunky at times. The way that pooling mind blast charges for the rift clashes with shadowy insight procs feels bad. If the procs acted as a free extra charge, this could be fixed, but capping at two even with a charge, means getting a proc while sitting at two charges is just lost damage. So you spend time pooling as you should, then are frustrated by procs leading into your void torrent. I desperately wish it felt better.
Been a rogue main for a while finally gunna change to something else. Our specs are ridiculously complicated(subtlety) extremely punishing in aoe if you get one thing wrong(asa) or just give you carpel tunnel syndrome( outlaw), i jump on my alts with worse gear and do more damage for ten times less effort, i dont mind specs being difficult to play, i actually enjoy off meta specs, but when the specs are incredibly clunky and complicated but the damage is trash as well that is just taking it too far, and now we get boring passive hero talents that do nothing even remotely interesting, if your going to make them boring at least help them clean up our rotation, i mean for dearh stalker asa rogue, your forcing me to ambush from stealth, when i NEED to garote as many mobs as possible in the 6 second tiny window i have, so now i have even less time to do this all in because now i have to get a ambush on there, i genuinely would love to meet the guy who is in charge of assination rogue and subtley rogue and just ask him "who hurt you?"
The only thing holding lightsmith back is the numbers. It just worse than herald of the sun ( at least for holy paladin) I would instantly choose lightsmith over heral if it was as good.
Some hero trees you could tell they had a hard time coming up with cool lore themes to apply to those classes, and that kind of makes sense why they ended up so lame. But some, like Shado-pan, dark ranger, sentinel, chosen of elune, and Druid of the claw have TONS of established lore and fantasy, yet they are still super boring. No excuse for that
I can understand why they made BM Hunter hero talents boring (intentionally designed as the easiest spec in WoW by a huge margin), but it is wild that they made both Brew trees so boring while making Conduit of the Celestials one of the coolest trees of all.
just passives and small changes , blizzard had an opportunity to change the game and make it refreshing with new class playstyles and abilities just they just dont care/are lazy. Hero talents are a huge disappointment
Aldrachi is a horrible tree that needs to be reworked from the ground up. Felscarred design is fine, but has recieved zero tuning and is hilariously bad performance wise. DH has been so neglected this Beta.
Agreed. Like most, we just love our class, so we'll play it regardless but the hero talents leave a LOT to be desired and we are very loud on the forums to no avail.
It sucks because they have a strong theme to work from but there isn't much here that particularly changes anything. DotC: I love the shapeshifting theme which druid is ironically lacking but there is no incentive to do so on rotation. Should double down on weaving. KotG: Needs more umph visually and mechanically, different trees that do different things that you can play around or maybe a keeper form(?) CoE: Just passive buffs and procs for most part. Kinda boring. WS: You heal more and do more damage but there is almost no interactivity between the two playstyles. The most interesting thing would be the popping of the bloodseeker vine with bite. Pretty boring overall.
@@endofexistence2149 well farseer is better for resto than totemic, and for enhance it's not a matter of it being cool or not, it's not DOABLE with how the hero talents work with the tree. It's too split between physical and elementalist, if you played enhance you'd understand
No DH likes Aldrachi Reaver lol, Havoc wants fel scared with better visuals but its simming 40% lower dps, just remove it. every DH will reroll to fury or frost, we dont want to play a WW like aldrachi reaver makes us
Players were not enjoying the skill trees so they redesigned them.. players still not happy so they add even more 😂. Blizzard is out of touch AF. Feedback much?
Why the hell are we even talking about the visuals? I've gotta imagine 90% if your viewers are PvPers, and we didn't give a shit about the visual effects. If my hero talent has zero visual but it's good, I love it. Do people even look at spell effects?
Because visual do matter I'm a pvper and I love seeing crazy visuals in my games, you are YOU not WE so don't speak as if you are speaking for all pvpers. Also the video was encompassing the over all playerbase not just pvpers. So it doesn't matter who actually watches his videos he's talking big picture not niche.
Good work on the tier lists, you're by far the most consistent content creator for this stuff 👍👍
I love tier lists, and I love it when someone speaks about them with so much enthusiasm and personal experience! It's like hearing a child (albeit, a very learned and intelligent child), steeped deep inside their fantasy world and loving it! Those sound affects and finger gestures add to it. Like at 10:11 when you talk about the Diabolist Hero Talents and at 24:45, and then the Soul Harvester at 24:30, and not to forget the "unicorn vomit of spells coming through" at 25:00 really brings those crazy visuals to mind!
are you a bot?
great video man. This is a great preview to imagining what the specs will be like. I know this took a lot of research and testing to complete.
It is hard to swallow that hero talent trees like dark ranger & pack leader have stayed untouched for the entire alpha and beta test phase and will most likely release in this state.
People who play hunters r generally bland and lame so it's no surprise that's howntheyd design there class
@@tylerchapman8856 BM for sure
Look at rogue lol
@tylerchapman8856 bruh. B ruh. Brah. Hunter life is the only life. Spin and disengage to leap forward while volleyball down arrows or sending monsters in to fight. Hunters the best. They just dumbed it down and keep BM too basic. MM isn't bad. Visuals need some spice. Lazy devs. Beasties wrath could at least make them go giant or red sparks fly out or something. Easy easy changes to make it more flashy and fun. Rip
@@tylerchapman8856 since ive seen your video of a mage at 1500 rating i dont wonder anymore why you call out hunters xD
As a FW, Conduit is chef's kiss. Makes keeping the main a real easy choice.
It would be cool if Dark Ranger had each auto attack as a misty black arrow and then each ability it cast a larger black misty animation. Poor Rogues 😭
Dark Ranger: Give Aimed Shot its mortal wounds effect back. Every N'th Aimed Shot becomes a Heartpiercer Shot that applies a Necrotic Strike debuff instead absoring X amount of healing.
Opens up the possibility with proper tracking to use Aimed Shot for the healing reduction followed up by another Aimed Shot after that absorbs healing.
Or they could just bake Mind Games into it instead. I dont feel like getting consistent trap setups is rewarding at all for Hunters in retail, its just another button that u press and everyone saves their cc breaks/dispels for it, Mindgames or Necrotic would fit right into the Dark Ranger fantasy and give Hunters these sort of checkmate positions that arent just overwhelming damage or attrition till deep damp.
Flameshaper is very fun. You can get huge crits with it. Good utility too
Mountain Thane is great for prot. Did a bunch of delves with it. My second favorite tank right now after Blood Deathbringer
Rider of the apocalypse is just too fucking cool! Unholy main expansion 100%
for rogue, give them the lvl 20 talent from samuro in hots where you can create duplicates and switch between them. Could do a dnd inspired arcane trickster and give them access to illusion and maybe frost magic.
Flameshaper is awesome in dungeons!
C works for Master of Harmony. It's just so overshadowed by Conduit that even if it might be good, nobody cares because it doesn't summon in the Celestials. It gives you an extra Thunder Focus Tea which is cool... I guess? I could see it being funny for Blitz proccing an extra two Chi Torpedoes to launch across the map while carrying the flag. Certainly not enough to make Brewmaster compete as a FC with DH getting another retreat or Druid being Druid, but it's something.
I haven’t tried any yet, but colossus is the one I’m most excited about.
Really insightful video - thanks!
I'm not sure if anyone else already pointed it out: The riders of the Apocalypse sadly don't summon the four horsemen from original Naxx, nor the wotlk one, but instead the four horsemen from the legion orderhall campaign (Whitemane, Trollbane, Mograine (the younger) and Nazgrim).
Honestly I would've been way more interested in either of the older older versions of the Naxx horsemen, with the wotlk one being more likely as it wouldn't make sense if Alexandros suddenly became a horseman again.
The aesthetic for the hero spec is insanely appealing overall, but I've yet to be too impressed with what the actual procs from summoning some of the horsemen do, so I'm hoping their actual pet damage will be decent enough to the point that it still feels impactful to summon them.
So the spec is lore accurate? And that bothers you?
@@amurjoeray2790 I'm guessing this reply is in regards to the four horsemen being the ones form the legion campaign?
While I agree that it makes sense when it comes to the current lore continuity, it should also be kept in mind that the lore has changed in order to fit the players better, or even to simply be a bit more appealing, so it's not as definitive of a statement as you might think.
If you consider, for example, the recent lore books released, (from what I've gathered from relevant content discussing it) the storyline has been written in a way that doesn't make sense when it comes to the timeline. This makes me feel like stating the "lore accuracy" in regards to which version of the death knights we get isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
In my humble opinion the four horsemen from back in the day were a lot more interesting. I still remember sir Zeliek as he was the only paladin in the lore who wasn't abandoned by the Light despite being undead, so getting to know more about those characters would also have been interesting.
Let's just say I consider it a wasted opportunity, and I'm 100% fine with you wanting to prioritize the lore accuracy of using the current lineup.
Darl Ranger should make your Aimed Shot become a Shadow Shot which would be an Aimed Shot with 50% shorter casting time while doing 50% of dmg
😂😂😂😂ok
@@Eliteninja007 MM hunters are hilarious most broken spec still asking for more XD
@@danielsmith2483 Guys I meant 50% of the current dmg, not another 50% lol
@@danielsmith2483 yup
They already have that baked into the tree with Wailing Arrow.
Dude Ascension WoW has a dark ranger that is infinitely more fun, wish someone at blizzard would take some inspiration
Some hero talents like pack leader is really good but its just a bunch of passives
Riders and Thane are my top picks. My cow prot thane just roflstomps everything.
Man, it’s unfortunate that dark ranger is lackluster the way it is considering the fact that there is so much lore behind them, from Nathanos to the banshee queen. Sylvanas is such a pivotal part of the wow saga it seems like such a disservice for them to neglect it so much. I’m not even worried too much about how strong the hero tree is, but for god sake at least add some awesome visuals playing off the banshee lore or the chains. Hope it changes.
Dark ranger should remove auto attack replacing it with 2 dots: Shadow arrow and tainted wound. Aimed shot is replaced with Wailing arrow that explodes any dots to nearby targets and eats x seconds of each dot for each spread leaving a debuff that reduces damage done by 15%.
Barrage should be shadow barrage, shadow arrows surround your weapon and firing your next shot triggers all arrows collected.
Feral feels so bad, now... the dot and run playstyle works and feels like Shadowlands. But it's nothing new while arms and ww both feel AMAZING. It's a tough choice for me. I love demolish for arms though, immuning stuns while bursting is fun and they have great utility. WW might be a powerhouse as a very high damage and very tanky spec. However, loss utiltiy/peels than arms.
"visuals animation and fantasy" and goes on to put havoc aldrachi in A. Honest question, have you even played the spec with aldrachi? what animation or fantasy are you talking about?
Healers seem to love Flameshaper for Pres Evoker.
Void weaver is tragic. So cool, but it feels so wrong being forced into DA over VE and voidform in the void centered talent. DA is a limp noodle CD. I have never liked playing mind spike, which is sort of forced. I do like void torrent, and it fits the fantasy here. The pets I can take or leave. They at least fit the fantasy. And I do think it feels clunky at times. The way that pooling mind blast charges for the rift clashes with shadowy insight procs feels bad. If the procs acted as a free extra charge, this could be fixed, but capping at two even with a charge, means getting a proc while sitting at two charges is just lost damage. So you spend time pooling as you should, then are frustrated by procs leading into your void torrent. I desperately wish it felt better.
Been a rogue main for a while finally gunna change to something else. Our specs are ridiculously complicated(subtlety) extremely punishing in aoe if you get one thing wrong(asa) or just give you carpel tunnel syndrome( outlaw), i jump on my alts with worse gear and do more damage for ten times less effort, i dont mind specs being difficult to play, i actually enjoy off meta specs, but when the specs are incredibly clunky and complicated but the damage is trash as well that is just taking it too far, and now we get boring passive hero talents that do nothing even remotely interesting, if your going to make them boring at least help them clean up our rotation, i mean for dearh stalker asa rogue, your forcing me to ambush from stealth, when i NEED to garote as many mobs as possible in the 6 second tiny window i have, so now i have even less time to do this all in because now i have to get a ambush on there, i genuinely would love to meet the guy who is in charge of assination rogue and subtley rogue and just ask him "who hurt you?"
Death, taxes and Supatease hating on feral.
The only thing holding lightsmith back is the numbers. It just worse than herald of the sun ( at least for holy paladin) I would instantly choose lightsmith over heral if it was as good.
How could they fk up 3 hero specs for rogue is beyond me…
Ok sir! In terms of just fun, from a bg perspective, would you suggest Diabloist or Rider? Thats my tear atm :D
Came here to see Conduit of the Celestials in S tier, ofc.
RIP rogues
i really appreciate you rank stuff taking into account pve not just pvp
how does San'Layn make A tier? All it does is give you 2 procs that never do proc.
Some hero trees you could tell they had a hard time coming up with cool lore themes to apply to those classes, and that kind of makes sense why they ended up so lame.
But some, like Shado-pan, dark ranger, sentinel, chosen of elune, and Druid of the claw have TONS of established lore and fantasy, yet they are still super boring. No excuse for that
I can understand why they made BM Hunter hero talents boring (intentionally designed as the easiest spec in WoW by a huge margin), but it is wild that they made both Brew trees so boring while making Conduit of the Celestials one of the coolest trees of all.
Stormbringer A tier is wild
Rogues are soooo fked
Ride to live and LiVE TO RIDE
just passives and small changes , blizzard had an opportunity to change the game and make it refreshing with new class playstyles and abilities just they just dont care/are lazy. Hero talents are a huge disappointment
Thanks, Supa!
For treants they should have just spawned them in and have them convoke.
Mage is eating well as always.
As a rog main we are just disapointed.
Aldrachi is a horrible tree that needs to be reworked from the ground up. Felscarred design is fine, but has recieved zero tuning and is hilariously bad performance wise. DH has been so neglected this Beta.
been playing rogue since BC and this is the most disappointed I've been with it in a long time.
Why are you saying lines choosen is good for a
Starfall? Nothing in the tree says about starfall? It's mainly buffs to arcane damage
Mastery of harmony will make brewmaster viable in RBGs again
You can get a 2 min cd fort brew and chi coocon with every press of it
Really sad to see Master of Harmony in C, hope Blizzard upgrade it.
Really depressing that they made the rogue specs so bland and boring.
All of the Druid specs are so lazy but if you like Druid it’s just extra druidy… yay
Agreed. Like most, we just love our class, so we'll play it regardless but the hero talents leave a LOT to be desired and we are very loud on the forums to no avail.
It sucks because they have a strong theme to work from but there isn't much here that particularly changes anything.
DotC: I love the shapeshifting theme which druid is ironically lacking but there is no incentive to do so on rotation. Should double down on weaving.
KotG: Needs more umph visually and mechanically, different trees that do different things that you can play around or maybe a keeper form(?)
CoE: Just passive buffs and procs for most part. Kinda boring.
WS: You heal more and do more damage but there is almost no interactivity between the two playstyles. The most interesting thing would be the popping of the bloodseeker vine with bite. Pretty boring overall.
Would have been nice to see a really bold move with heavy gameplay changes for keeper
Aldrachi Reaver feels terrible to play. Truly awful.
Rogue down sooooo bad
Totemic should be D, it's literally unplayable as enhance.
maybe but its not just an enhance tree so you can just mark It a D because it personally doesn't fit your realm of cool.
@@endofexistence2149 well farseer is better for resto than totemic, and for enhance it's not a matter of it being cool or not, it's not DOABLE with how the hero talents work with the tree. It's too split between physical and elementalist, if you played enhance you'd understand
No DH likes Aldrachi Reaver lol, Havoc wants fel scared with better visuals but its simming 40% lower dps, just remove it. every DH will reroll to fury or frost, we dont want to play a WW like aldrachi reaver makes us
OOF! I like you Supa but your takes on DH are just bad lol It's barely a new visual and 0 new animations what you mean!!
Dh hero talents are dog water
Why is rogue getting so shit on
Use time stamps bald man
Players were not enjoying the skill trees so they redesigned them.. players still not happy so they add even more 😂. Blizzard is out of touch AF. Feedback much?
I dont want to think more about my class lol i want LESS BUTTONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why the hell are we even talking about the visuals? I've gotta imagine 90% if your viewers are PvPers, and we didn't give a shit about the visual effects. If my hero talent has zero visual but it's good, I love it. Do people even look at spell effects?
yes
Because visual do matter I'm a pvper and I love seeing crazy visuals in my games, you are YOU not WE so don't speak as if you are speaking for all pvpers. Also the video was encompassing the over all playerbase not just pvpers. So it doesn't matter who actually watches his videos he's talking big picture not niche.
the pvp is dog shit.
In what way
@@benkelly7182 cc's, micro cc's, que times, balancing, rewards, etc. all of it.