Bench heights and planing technique | Paul Sellers
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Do you need a low bench height to bear down on your work when planing? Or should a sharp plane pull itself to task? See what Paul Sellers thinks.
We posted this ( • Video ) video the day before this one but we had a comment saying that the same would not be possible with the board level. Hopefully this will show that that is not the case.
To find out more about Paul Sellers and the projects he is involved with go to paulsellers.com
I have watched so many of the Paul Sellers videos and I continue to be impressed. What a wealth of knowledge within such a humble embodiment of a man. A great representation of the value of sharing knowledge as compared to hoarding it. Thank you so much Paul for passing on generations of skills and making them available to the public, ensuring that they won’t be lost.
The hardest part for us beginners (or at least for me anyway) is figuring out the difference between when I'm doing something wrong, or there's something wrong with the plane, especially since my planes are old hand-me-downs that weren't very well cared for.
I see now that I definitely need to do some more work on the plane itself, because my planing is nowhere near that smooth or easy, even when it's taking thin shavings...
"I'm not trying to prove anything, but watch how I'm right, because 50 years..." 😂
Thank you so much for all of your insight; it is extremely valuable!!!
When Paul Sellers teaches you something you know you're hearing the calm voice of authority that represents 20,000 years of knowledge handed down from craftsman to student. It's a privilege to be addressed as though you are a small link in that chain.
Dr Ralph Kennedy I was going to say something just like this but I think you said it perfectly already!
I think 20.000 is a stretch but i get what you are saying.
If I'm Link, does that make Paul the Deku Tree?
Mr Sellers, that is such a tribute to your sharpening method, fantastic! I'm just starting to do bench woodworking and am trying to adopt your sharpening techniques, I don't think my planes will do that just yet, I will be practicing some more and will try doing this. When my plane does this I will know I've got it right. Thank you for videos they are a big help for learners.
What you are putting across to us Paul is absolutely correct. Correct sharpening and set up are the two main variables as far as the plane is concerned. I am 5' 8" and my bench is 34". I have found this to be the most comfortable all around height for me. Your "experiment" was pretty cool to boot.
Derek
This is just the best demonstration ever of how to properly use a plane, and how to set your bench height for perfect planing.
Outstanding! A sharp tool is such a pleasure to use.
Does Paul have the best voice on UA-cam?
Amazing! It's like the wood becomes a fluid when handled with such talent! Thanks for your videos you're an excellent Master!
Well now this is just delightful to watch.
Funny thing is the timing of me watching this. I’ve been wrestling with a decision between a Veritas #4-1/2 and a Lie Neilson #4. One of the significant differences is the more vertical orientation of the handles on Veritas planes. Paul has convinced me that the Veritas grip angle should work just fine.
(Please don’t start flame wars between these plane manufacturers. Both are excellent tools, so feel free to choose whichever one makes you happy.)
I learned to sharpen from his videos and this will happen to you to when you get a truly sharp plane. Best investment I ever made was getting set up like Mr. Sellers does when sharpening. It's like having all new tools.
Awesome technique video. I think I like the basics / fundamentals / foundational / tips of how to use your hand tools videos from experienced woodworkers a lot more than the how-to-build a specific project type videos!
This is a good illustration of something that is becoming increasingly clear to me. A relaxed grip on planes and handsaws is all that's needed. I suppose I have always felt like others that you have to make the tool do the job and as a consequence I would generally end up with edges that were anything but square. Thanks to your videos I'm learning how to let the tool do the work instead. Much more enjoyable and the results are better as well. Thanks Paul, love your work.
I have been a carpenter and joiner almost as long as Paul, and I must agree with Paul in that if your plane is sharpe you don't need to press down. The weight of the plane it's self should be all it needs.
Hi Paul, I'm from Brazil and I love watch your videos. You are the best!
I built two benches for myself that are 36" tall and 8 feet long (I am 5'10") and have found that a taller bench is much better for me than a lower bench which I also have. I have found that planing on a shorter bench yields inferior results and causes me to have to work more. I find that bearing down on the wood deforms the sole of the plane and the wood that you're planing. A sharp plane iron is the only thing a woodworker needs, that and a flat/true sole. I defy modern convention/wisdom that low benches are best, I enjoy having a comfortable working height that brings the work closer to my eye and allows me to stand rather than be bent over daily, all day.
Hi Paul. I really enjoy your video's, very instructive. This video sort of confirmed the height I chose for my workbench. I decided for 95cm (38" = 96.5cm), I am 5'10" and I have a bad back, so I need to set the working height a little higher than what seems to be a standard height here in The Netherlands, around 85cm.Thank you and please continue making video's.
Those demonstrations prove the case, Paul. I learned something this evening for my next plain effort!
Quite an interesting subject, ive not done any woodworking but im considering some projects, Im considering your work bench as my first project as a precursor to my main project. In any case to my real point for commenting im sure you will have heard this but your video brought up a memory from my childhood.
My great uncle who sadly now has passed away, used to always say to me "Let the tool do the work" i was using a saw to chop fire wood and naturally being 12 or 13 i was going at it all guns and gusto. But the point is quite applicable it would seem to me.
Anyways, ive watched most of your videos now and im certainly getting the urge to do something practical pretty soon. I hope that you will be sharing more videos soon.
Brilliant idea to demonstrate a point. Well done!
Could this man possibly get more any amazing. And the way he explains, it makes things feel like they're just so obvious, like saying, 'When you Drop things, they fall Down.'
Thanks Paul, I have built a bench a few years back and it came out at 391/4" I'm 6' 2" and it works well for me. Now I'm starting to build a new one at the same height..
This is such a great explanation and demonstration, as all of the other videos are as well. Thanks for all of your great videos Paul.
Fascinating. Many thanks for going to the trouble of making and posting these videos.
I always thought that a lower bench height was supposed to let you get your hips into the work. I can't afford a bench just for planing so to me it is more important to have a taller bench for finer work. None the less I enjoyed this video immensely.
To me the most unique thing about Paul's bench is the fact that the vise is in the middle. I don't believe I have seen that anywhere else.
Paul's vises are not in the middle, they are just inside the leg of the bench. He has a whole series on making the bench.
I’m a little late to this thread, but I just want to thank you for this video. My painful hands can look forward to less stress.
Your backwards rope-planing is better than my two-handed full-attention planing! Obviously I need more practice!
So much of woodworking is guiding an edge through the fibers not driving or forcing. Sharp and setup will keep you working all day with easy efforts.
Que maestro!! Muchas gracias Paul. Me encanto este video, aprendi mucho. Saludos de Argentina.
It's so fun to see how excited he gets with the full-length shaving. If I ever get one I guess I would too!
I have a lot to sharp! What a demonstration!
Great video. Since I want to build a new bench I've been researching them for the past month or so. You're really beginning to convince me I need to raise my bench. I raised my existing bench 1-1/2" tonight after watching this video and loved it. I'm up to 38-1/2" now and I'm thinking of going up to 40". I'm 6'-4" tall and I find the higher bench much more comfortable to work at. I really can't understand why the experienced woodworkers out there writing books on workbenches are telling us to build them at 34" to 35". You certainly don't need a low bench to plane a board as you have so aptly proven. I find it much more comfortable to plane with my forearm at a slight downward angle. At that position I can get all the power I need to plane a board. Thanks for the great videos.
"Let the tool do the work", - pretty much can be applied to all tools
Apart from Philips screwdrivers, you have to push with 100000 times the force that you turn!
More like let the scary sharp tool do the work trough
I have found that it doesn't matter what tool one uses. It matters the dance one dances with the tool. In this case a waltz would be appropriate. A light clasp and a slight guide.
The old maxim "LET THE TOOL DO THE WORK" fully demonstrated here.
Brilliant!!!!
i think we are lucky living in this modern era.. we get a lot of knowledge from the Master like Paul Seller for only paying few dollar for internet bill..
That was some Ninja style handplaning :) Good job!
Good test Paul. I have been seeing the videos about bench height. Most are selling bench construction materials.
Great demonstration
I wouldn't wish to disrespect Paul Sellers but as someone who mostly uses hard woods like hard maple it would be good to see the techniques used with similar materials.
paul, man i love your style as much as your craft :)
One demonstration is worth a thousand opinions
What he shows you isn't an opinion though......listening or watching some tard that watched a Ana White video is just that....an opinion form a tard.
@@rider660r exactly it was a demonstration, not an opinion. Right?
@@lxoxrxexnx It was a lesson...compared to these pallet f's......
paul you tell it as it works . i was apprentice to my grandad a master decorator and like you i was taught by 1st class master craftsmen unlike we dont get today.
paul what is your view on the marples planes i think they are great tools and i recomend them to all my friends .made in england tools are my thing
I have spent a lot of time in Asia. They always pull their planes instead of pushing. When I ask an one of the wood workers why, I was told it prevents the plane from biting to deep.
Thanks for this. I've always used benches that are too low -- typically they are about 32-33 inches, yet I'm your height. Time to add some height and see if my back feels better.
SEGURAMENTE TU ESPALDA,
SUFRIRÁ MENOS
That was very nice! Good show!
My advice (got it from my father who got it from his) is to put the workbench at belt-height. It works well for me.
If you look at and watch the Japanese hand planes at work, they always pull the plane, there is no "downward" pressure at all. Sharpness is and will always be the key, at least, that's my thoughts on it. I could be wrong.
Another great video! Thanks Paul!
bench height for me is more of a lower back issue, the lower the bench the more one has to bend, causing stress on the spline. a person has to find what is most comfortable for him.
This is the same advice that flight instructors give their students. Keep a light grip on the yoke and you'll feel what's going on better, as well as reduce errant control inputs.
when Paul Sellers talks I listen! i was however in terror the whole time...i lost a plane when i dropped it on the floor and the body cracked! Still scarred!
It would be worthwhile adding that the type of plane itself has a bearing on bench height. Cast planes like your Stanleys benefit from a higher bench than wooden planes would. Even a few cm makes all the difference.
Because of the different handles?
Mostly because of the physical thickness of a wooden plane.
Consider this - assume Paul is wrong and that bearing down and exerting more energy produces a better result.
Look at the result he gets starting at 4:21. Even if Paul is dead wrong, then the benefit gained by bearing down will be the *delta* between what we seem him doing here and some higher standard.
How much better of a result will you get by pushing down, by wearing yourself out, by bending over a little more?
A sharp plane or chisel is much more comfortable than fighting the wood, any wood, with dull tools. I prefer 36 inches, as I am also 5' 11". When tools are sharp, the effort is NOT pressing down or fighting the grain as much as it is keeping the tool moving.
Huge thumbs up!
Correct Paul! Let the tool do the job!! If the tool has a carpentry sharp blade, then the tool does the job. There is no need for extensive pressure. In fact this can damage a plane, as it can lead to a bent sole plate. If the tool is not performing it is wrongly set or has a blunt blade.
I sharpened my blade but after only about 30 strokes on walnut and 30 on pine, part of the blade edge curled up a thinly bit. I’m new at this but think the used plane I got, blade has been “detempered” (if that’s a word) and won’t hold an edge very well at all. It’s not blue on the spade anywhere. Any suggestions on a cheap way to fix it or way to check hardness on used blade? Thank you again for a great video!!!
I would say go ahead and sharpen it again, use it and be prepared to sharpen it several times. Eventually, it will get back to solid steel again. Alternatively, use a grinding wheel with water to cool and grind off a new bevel.
Paul Sellers OK Paul. I guess my upper body, arms and fingers need a workout anyway, so I’ll give your advice a try, and try again and again. Thank you very much!
Hello mr. Sellers, I can choose a benchplane or a blockplane. Which one schould i buy first? regards Jan Willem Kooi (Holland)
A bailey no. 4 pattern bench plane. According to Mr Sellers, it's the most useful for a first plane as it can be set up to do many tasks, on projects. But if your projects are small in scale, a block plane might be handy, even though the No. 4 can do what a block plane can do.
Cant provide much more proof than that. Im 6'2" and I prefer a 40" hight but sometimes like a little higher. I despise how low conventional counter tops are.
While I agree with you for the most part, you are not accounting for cg, when u pull from the front, the plane will naturally dig in. The only force required to plane is dictated by sharpening, depth of cut and lube
If your bevel angle is correct it's going to work
My father told me to take care of the tools and always to let the tool work, no matter if it is a hand tool or a machine tool, that will always give the best result.
Well sorry to have to be the one to tell you this but that father of yours lied to you because you can lay a plane, or any other tool for that matter on a piece of wood and leave it there for an entire year and when you come back I can promise you that it will not have done any of the work for you!
pretty obvious the board was magnetic and elaborate hollywood special effects were employed :D
Obviously CGI. 🤣
Legend.
Question about bench height though - I am constantly ending up with a sore back after hours of work due to having a short bench to work on. I'm very tall - 6'5, (or 195cm) so I feel like my bench should be around 40in. tall or so? what do you think?
I understand completely, my bench comes to my navel it was a body measurement so not 100% certain on it's height...anyway I'm assuming these planes are bevel down?...seems to me that bevel up would chatter in this scenario.
Paul, you are the Chuck Norris of Woodwork... that plane did not cut the wood, the wood got up and climbed the plane in its submission to a master.
Great video, I'm new to this and am building a workbench, the more I plane the worse it seems to get. But I think I may have to go over the plane and sharpen everything like you did in the other videos. Any suggestions on a technique or something I may be doing wrong. Thanks👍
i build my tables and workbenches about 4 inches above my hips.
I "believed what (he) was saying" when I saw the name Paul Sellers.
Maybe I won't be so tired next time...thanks Paul.
Anyone who follows your advice will enjoy far less back pain.
I am 5ft 9in and my bench height is 36 inches.
I think you also inadvertently proved that the Japanese way of pulling the plane is more efficient.
Chob Sauceman would say you just need to buy a Wood River.
First off, I am not an expert wood worker, but it seems to me that anyone who has to horse their plane across the edge grain of a board does not have a sharp plane or their plane is not properly tuned. My personal bench hight that is comfortable for me to work is my rule of thumb. I stand naturally, arms loosely at my sides, I estend my thumb and that gives me my personal best bench hight. This is not for me to throw my weight into a plane, but to get my weight behind a paring chisel when smoothing up a tenon and so on. But what do I know?
It nice to have shop, bench, and all that. I started in high school, and always had crap for tools. I kept thinking I need large power tools, and shop. While at collage I meet this girl who had saw, a couple of chisel, and a block plane. She could make every thing. While her parents worked, she stayed with her grandfather who taught her how to use what she had. Her grandfather had learned to use limited tool while he was in an Japanese internment camp during world war two. She sat on the floor, and held thing with her feet. When she move out of the dorms, and into an apartment she made her own furniture from scrape wood. I can afford a few better tools, but I would rather improve my skills.
+Kiki Lang Thanks for the Videos. They are very helpful.
Kiki Lang I'd have proposed on the spot, TBH.
My grandfather always told me to let the tool do the work.
And keep it sharp.
I work with tools
I am a tool
i am work
i am batman
These videos absolutely convince me that my planes are NOWHERE near as sharp as Paul's worst plane...
Freaking truth. Until I learn to sharpen, I'll never be able to have this kind of success.
Tony Ennis but how do you learn!? Ive been trying without success
I know I'm late here but stropping is key. Like the amount it improves both the sharpness and longevity of the cutting edge is amazing.
@@moneymills7644 Stopping in a piece of leather with compound on till the edge is like a mirror is the key.
There's a video of Paul's where he talks about how sharp is sharp enough. He gets some good shavings with an iron sharpened on 250 grit paper. The point he makes is that there is a point where it makes little difference. Not that we should use full planes. But I think there's something about his experience and set-up that just surpasses most of us.
Mr. Sellers, I am wishing you a long, healthy, happy and prosperous life so that you can continue to share all your knowledge with us. I am most grateful for all your videos, including this one.
Looking forward to more from you.
the angle of the blade entering the wood automatically pulls the plane body down to the work as it tries to bury itself in the surface. all wood working should be done in a relaxed manner and it will show itself in the finish. great video as usual.
The iron tries to dig into the material, the sole serves as a stop. The stop just happens to slide along the workpeice and violá, Plane Action. I never thought of it this way, but I don't think I'll ever get it out of my head ;P
I like your demonstration here Paul and I am going to raise my bench height because of back discomfort. What for me is not good about a higher bench height is chopping out large mortises clamped to the top of my bench. I cannot get over the top of the chisel. But the answer is simple, stand on a three inch platform. Raise me not lower the bench and keep the cold from my feet.
Hello from Arkansas, I have just recently discovered your channel. What a find. I have been a wood worker for 40 years. You are a great teacher.
I find that when I push down on the plane I tend to go out of square but when I just let the weight of my hands hold the plane down I don't...
That's right and that's why all the advocates saying you bear down on the plane give the wrong impression about planing technique.
I'm very new to working with wood but I have to say that's something I worked out fairly quickly.....many other videos of planing techniques I've watched suggested putting a lot of pressure down onto the plane and straight off the bat I found that I couldn't keep a square edge that way....it just wasn't working for me....at first I thought perhaps I was doing something wrong but then I saw your video and realised that what I'd sort of figured out on my own was in fact correct...for me at least...I'm sure it will always be a point of contention but your method works for me....it gives me the results I want and that's what matters at the end of the day. Thank you for all your videos....they are an invaluable resource for woodworkers whether they be seasoned or newcomers like myself....I've learned an incredible amount from you already.
+Michael Barnes For one thing, if the workpiece is not absolutely, perfectly supported at every point along its length, any downward pressure will tend to bend the workpiece and prevent the creation of a perfect plane surface.
still wonder why people think just adding more muscle will overcome improper tool sharpness or setup.... it takes less time and energy to sharpen and set your equipment than it does to fight it all day
"Never is the man with experience at the mercy of the man with a theory.'
+Beta Vulgaris (A View From Europe) What predicted gravitational waves?
+allyourcode This is entirely irrelevant. He didn't say theories were worthless, only that it doesn't matter what the theory says when practice says something different. Gravitational waves are not something susceptible to direct experience by human beings.
Or a picture is worth a thousand words, proof is in the pudding, etc...
allyourcode Be tired of whatever you like.
The man who knows the science behind sharpening a knife, but who has never been near a knife, knows fuck all compared to the man who has spent a life time actually sharpening them.
Experience is greater than any theory.
If that hurts you then so be it.
That's a nice thing to say but not always true. Fact that someone been doing something for a long time does not always mean that he knows what he is doing nor that his way is best.
What usually happens is the person who has been doing things well also understands the theory and thus his experience means something.
There is my ... upps ... there wars my ...
Great.
Best whishes from Germany i like your Videos. I learn a much. In the moment my woodworking shop looks like an Poormans ;) but i build the flooring for an room in my house by my self. My first project wars that think used for sawing on your bench. Thanks for your impressions.
04:30 Ok - now I know for sure, that my blade is dull and has to be sharpened. ;-)
Bearing down on the plane is just a way to fatigue someone who is actually using planes. Old bench heights probably had more to do with heights of the average worker. Even on a lower bench, nobody should lean on their planes, or they're just creating more work for themselves.
I don't think the people who say you have to lean on the plane and bear down have done much planing from rough, they'd quickly decide otherwise. Maybe they've done enough planing from rough to write a blog entry or show a couple of new users a short sample of work, but if they were to dimension wood for a few hours, they'd have a different answer - especially with metal planes.
I'm amazed. I've been doing it wrong. Lesson learned.
Respect 50 years of experience
Just built my first bench and made it 36” high. I’m 5’9” tall and it turned out to be perfect for me especially planing. I don’t feel like I’m bending over so much and can put my weight behind my place as I push
Laughably, you can often hear elder Craftsmen say, "Never ever force it. Get a bigger hammer!"
It's a joke. The truth of the matter is that if you ARE forcing it, you're doing something wrong. There's no need for several hours of any repetitive task to send you to the floor in cramps and soreness, broken down, or overly fatigued.
SO... when you find yourself pushing too much, too hard, too heavy handed... STOP!!! Back up and take another look at what you're doing and what's going on. Something isn't right, if you're breaking yourself to do this stuff!
Maybe just take a minute, reset things... check your edges and blades... make sure you're on your game. Make sure the tools are properly set up and the work is appropriately restrained or arranged for this kind of thing.
I often joke about "safety third"... Because doing the job PROPERLY in the first place is generally safer than all the stupid techno-crap you can strap onto a thing. Taking care to do the work with well maintained equipment is a close second to proper technique... THEN we worry about your precious added safety equipment (masks, goggles, respirators, face shields, gloves, pads, armored cup, and shin-splint reduction devices... etc..etc..etc... Safety third.
There is no "safety gear" more obvious, more powerful, more universally applicable than the sensibility to at least TRY to do the thing right to begin with... and that lies squarely in that organ you usually keep directly between your ears... THE most powerful piece of equipment in the history of humans. ;o)
I wish you had 100 years of good health and your wife's, so you could teach more people. Cheers from Tasmania
Super illustration. I find higher benches relieve a lot of back strain.
WOW that was your best tip.. I have been pushing down all my ears. I going out to the shop right now and plane, plane, plane. thanks
Paul thank you for producing videos with such clarity and ease of learning. This one shows without doubt that the sage advice "let the tool do the work" is true - thanks again.
Do you know Jim kingshot @Paul Sellers? He said your very best work should be effortless and performed by nothingness. He was of course talking about sharpness but same goes. P.s. Careful you Dinna drop your bonny planes!