Daisuke Matsuzaka Was Supposed to Break Baseball
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2023
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Hey everyone!
Every year a select group of prospects are hyped more than others. However, there's always 1 player who's projected to be a game-breaking talent. Back in 2007, that player was Daisuke Matsuzaka and it was due to the mystique behind a supposed pitcher he threw: the gyroball. Unfortunately, the hype behind this pitch did more harm than good.
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As a Red Sox fan, his 2008 season was the most nerve wracking and uncomfortable season I've ever experienced from a pitcher with a record and ERA as good as his was. It felt like every start he'd be at 100 pitches by the 5th inning with tons of traffic on the bases, but would somehow fight his way through without giving up too much damage.
Oh yeah I remember. His playoff win was going to be loss it was hit up the middle but hit our shortstop’s heal and turned into a double play. He made me nervous every start
I seem to remember him getting pulled a lot in the 5th inning. But, there was Okajima, the Japanese lefty who would drop his head before pitching the ball. He was great - he was older though, so he only had a few seasons left.
Diasuke had thrown to many pitches before getting to MLB imo.
haha.. exactly. I was still a pretty big MLB and Red Sox fan then and I still remember that. Lots of walks. Okajima was a great surprise then for sure @drbryant23
@@BlkwtrPrk fun times
Goes to show how much more we need to appreciate the Ichiro's, Hideki's, and Shohei's
Westerners tend to forget Nomo. Nomo was a trailblazer and should be among those names. The first true Japanese MLB star. He inspired Suzuki and Matsui and Matsuzaka to come to the MLB as well and us documented in interviews. While there was the other person who came to MLB before him, I don’t even know his name, Nomo was the first mainstream one. He was blackballed and cheated out of money by NPB so he literally found a loophole to sign a contract with the Dodgers and said, watch this putting up back to back campaigns of Cy-young top 4 finishes.
@@metabreaker1185 i agree! I hope Nomo earns his MLB HOF one day.
@@metabreaker1185 his wind up was so cool to watch!!! Hypnotizing even!
They all get appreciated enough
Yeah they seem to be a hit or miss. Not too many long-term players who perform average. Either Kaz Matsui or hideki Matsui. Ichiro or Dice K. Shohei or the next big deal who turns out to be a bust.
250 pitches in a 17 inning game is absurd
When Dice K had his surgery, i remember all the discussions about how Japan's high school tournament shortened his career. It's just crazy to me how many pitches these kids throw in these games. Many of these kids say that they don't care if they blow out their arm. They just want to win the tournament. It's admirable, but how many great careers has this tournament shortened or even ruined?
As a halfie who spends his summers in Japan with family Kōshien is in my opinion the most important event of all sports for high school,
The tournament is way longer than what is told, it starts at qualifiers where if you lose you are out before even getting to the tournament.
I do wish the players are protected from injury and risk of it the tournament has so much weight/meaning to the point that some in Japan who don’t watch baseball watch Kōshien.
The tournament imo holds more value to Japanese people than most realize.
While I have no data to back this it is personal experience.
Dice-K was the cover star of MLB Power Pros and had the best pitching stats of anyone in that game, he was absolutely being hyped up as the pitching Ichiro
Most underrated game of all time as well
Nah the fact that you said that game and that is the sole reason I remember him is wild
Fucking GOAT of a game
God damn that game was lit. Wish they’d bring it back cause I know they still make it, but I think it’s for KBO or NPB.
@@IBangedUrMom69420 Yup, NPB. They also released a lite version of the game for $1 called WBSC eBaseball for switch and PS4.
Glad the video conclusion was positive. As a teenage Sox fan, I was stoked for his arrival, and ultimately remember him for helping win the World Series. Same way we still love Bronson Arroyo and Shane Victorino even though they only had a couple good years -- they did it when it mattered most.
Ahh those were some fun years we had. I loved those teams
Dicek came over with a lot of miles on his arm. He also did wbc too and pitched well in those tournaments.
@@ciello___8307 oh yeah I was a huge fan of his then. I had season tickets and those were the best years. They had so much personality then
In 2013, Victorino hit .125 in the ALCS against Detroit, and .154 in the World Series, but damn - 4 RBI's in the deciding game of the ALCS and 4 RBI's in the deciding game of the World Series. Some guys just come through. Amazing.
@@drbryant23 Derek Lowe comes to mind when you mention that -- he had an ERA north of 5 in '04 but he won the deciding game of every playoff series (same as Victorino had the series-winning hit of every playoff round). Big moments, man.
He pitched way too much back in Japan. His arm was dead
I saw one of his first starts at Fenway. The place was electric.
Yup same here. We had some real fun years then.
Dice K is legend in Boston his 10k game were amazing and seeing fan his name with the strike out board, show how much Boston loved him. He’s still baseball legend.
I'm glad you mentioned his postseason. Yeah he wasnt having a Bumgarner or Morris like postseason, but a team needs performance from the whole lineup and Matsuzaka did admirably.
BUKKAKE! MATSUZAKA! RICE!
Dice-K would walk the bases loaded and somehow ALWAYS get out of it
I’ve seen a lot of people say this while researching
@@SportStorm23 yeah im a Red Sox fan, and the broadcasters, Don Orsillo and Jerry Remy, joked that he should just imagine the bases loaded often.
if i recall correctly, Japanese pitchers, especially in Dice-K's era don't pitch inside
Jose Alvarado tends to do this a lot too. He gets himself to the edge and then blows everybody away with the heat and movement. It's weird how many pitchers are better under pressure, but it takes a certain breed to constantly put yourself in the worst spot and then escape it.
Oh yeah he made us nervous. But those were some fun years we had
@@litojonnySon and Jeremy were the best together. They would talk about everything else during some blow outs and laughing for innings. WOW thanks for making me go down memory lane
The 2 baseball games I played the most as a kid both used 07 rosters (Backyard Baseball and The Bigs), so this dude will always be a GOAT to me with that awesome gyro ball
It's true that he only lasted two years before his arm blew out, but in those two years - he was 33-15, he started 7 playoff games and the Sox won 6 of them, and he helped win the 08 World Series. You know something? Today I'd pay $51 million for that.
Also those two wbc mvps. He was amazing in the tournaments
It was the 07 World Series that he won
Being a New Englander and a Red Sox fan at age 12 in 2007, the hype surrounding Daisuke was immense. Everyone was talking about him, even people who weren’t baseball. He was on newspaper and magazine covers, his jerseys were everywhere. The only thing I can compare it to is Tom Brady in terms of his presence in the region.
Yeah and Bostonians really wanted to believe he was a big star. Many thought he deserved the Cy Young over Cliff Lee, which was silly at the time and downright laughable in retrospect. He was incredibly lucky in 2008
Thank you for mentioning the misinformation that surrounded the gyroball back then! Funny that the pitch that was misidentified in 2005 as a gyroball would come back in 2023 as the sweeper slider, and that the pitch called a "backup slider" back then would reemerge in 2023 as the gyro-slider.
This was probably the most hyped athlete of my childhood for me. I thought he was going to be the pitching version of Ichiro. Turns out he had a couple of meh seasons and went MIA. However, we got Dustin Pedroia that year, someone we never expected would be as good as he was. I really hope Pedey stays on the ballot and eventually makes it in the hall. He deserves it.
For sure he does, but maybe teams should retire jerseys cause he is red sox
Funny when I see certain posts and I can assume we are the same age or thereabouts lol
@@OilCompany95 i guess not but we can both appreciate this guy. Blue jays fan here
18 w 3 Losses 2.90 Era 150 Ks
Only 10 Hrs yes that was so Meh
nobody in the last 20 years was more hyped up than lebron. period. greatest athlete ever isnt a baseball player
He was definitely a big-game pitcher! Sure Cy Young awards are great but do we really care how they pitched during the season?
the hype around DiceK and the Gyro Ball was Through The Roof... fax!!!
Daisuke Matsuzaka is the reason why I’m a Japanese baseball fan. I think seeing him play changed the course of my life, too. I would later live in Japan for three years and make a lot of friends in the country.
3:14 And shortening his Career by 5 years. That's inhuman.
I remember visiting Japan in 2019 and having the fortune of seeing Dice-K pitch in one of his last years playing professionally.
He was pulled after only 0.1IP and giving up 8ER. Yeah.
Demitri?
Through all levels he pitched like 3900 innings japan the minors and mlb combined. Dudes arm is/was destroyed
It's rather tragic how much the injuries messed with him later on. After recovering from surgery, he was only a shadow of ehat he used to be and took quite a long time to regain his footing even after he returned to Japan.
I was there for his debut in KC! He’ll forever be one of my favorite Red Sox players
The season he came into the MLB he was already a legend. I had just started getting back into the sports card community. And as fast he burst onto the scene was as fast as he disappeared from highlights and commentary. Speaking of 2007 rookie pitchers, Tim Lincecum had the same happen to him, but he had three rings (in five years) and it’s a bummer. Lots of players have similar stories. But when it happens to a huge superstar there’s always the “what if” factor that gets debated for decades.
He was better than Kei Igawa, that's for sure.
Dice K took like 20 minutes between pitches. I'm afraid that's all I really remember about him.
Dude, Nomo throws the forkball
Daisuke is a legend regardless
Dice K!!!
A gyro ball is 100% a slider that “backs up.” You’ll hear announcers say that term every now and then. If a pitcher has a sharp slider with high spin rate, it dives away from hitters. But release it slightly earlier? The ball spins like it’s going to break, but doesn’t. Good hitters recognize the “shape” of the pitch in the seams of the ball coming in, and if you’re guessing for a pitch to break away and it stays straight, it “backs up” on you as you’re diving out over the plate. This, when executed on command, would be a lethal pitch in an arsenal because it would be indistinguishable from a slider, making both the slider and gyro more effective. I’ve never seen a player able to intentionally throw a gyro though. The nastiest ones happen completely by accident when the pitcher lets the slider go too early and it slips out of the hand. This is why Dice-K’s gyro videos looked like sliders and why he said he rarely threw it in games or only did by accident.
A few pitchers today who throw gyroballs (recently called gyro-sliders) include Luis Castillo (SEA) and Sandy Alcantara (MIA).
If you notice a trend with a lot of these Japanese pitchers, they come over here with a legendary splitter, for a year or 2 it works until the league figures out that they don't throw it for strikes. The spin on a splitter compared to a fastball, depending on the grip, can be recognized, it's the arm speed and release point that makes it hard to lay off. Once batters recognize it, they lay off. That's one of the reasons Kevin Gausmans splitter is so good, he can throw it for strikes. If you notice later in his career Tanaka started throwing sliders early in the count to set up either the fastball or splitter and became a big game pitcher even as he got older. What makes Ohtani so effective, when he throws strikes, is he throws 100 at the knees then the splitter stays on the same plane. We haven't seen someone from Japan throw that hard before. It also helps that he has a great slider. That's why the 3rd pitch is so important
Thats true for any pitcher, japanes or not. Thats why guys like darvish, kershaw have long careers. They have many weapons
@@ciello___8307greinke as well
Throwing a gyroball isn't as hard you may think. I learned how to throw it back in high school because I thought it was neat, but I understand why it isn't really a viable pitch. Other pitches do what it tries to do and better.
I remember some of those red sox years and he had great run support in his starts
I vividly remember when Daisuke came over from Japan. It was indeed incredible hype. He lived up to it too for the most part. His first two seasons were great for a new player coming from a foreign league. Some people that don’t follow baseball closely don’t realize they play a high level of baseball in Japan. Daisuke was a legit high level starter.
As stated in the video, his clutch performances in the playoffs, World Series, and WBC are more than enough to be proud of as a player. He didn’t turn out to be an all-timer, but he it was a successful career.
We loved him in Boston. Was worth every penny.
Daisuke came in and delivered at every level he ever played at. Some of the greatest superstars ever never got to experience the level of winning Daisuke Matsuzaka had. His accomplishments are something to behold.
Haven’t even started the vid yet but I always love any Dice-K recognition ❤️
I remember after his first start against a miserable Kansas City team the media was ready to put him into the Hall of Fame.
12:40 see? They were right to spend on him instead of Zito!
Jokes aside, Dice-K is a fucking legend. In Boston, Japan, and everywhere in between.
Hes crazy in Bigs 2 tho always hated having to face him 😭
That gyroball was ABSOLUTELY no joke man 😂 if he powered up it was over
As a braves fan, id love to see the something on Kenshin. Most people forget he was in the league
I remember him being pretty good we just couldn't get him any run support so his W-L looked bad so we got rid of him. Could be remembering it wrong
Daisuke Matsuzaka wore out his arm playing very competitive SHS and JPB baseball. He never really recovered after the TJ surgery.
Well, Seibu Lions fans are very grateful for Daisuke and Boston Red Sox.
I mean, Seibu Dome was built with the posting fee by Red Sox for the right for Matsuzaka. That $51,111,111.11 posting fees.
and they forever grateful with Red Sox for that.
How amazing! Roar Lions!
Dude has a great career, nothing to be ashamed of.
This is the best baseball UA-cam channel I watch, instant queue when I see a video pop up!
Thank you!
I think sometimes us as fans put to much pressure on guys that come over instead of just letting them play
Gyroball, what a name.
Thanks for this 😊
Omg the hype run he had before he become a Red Sox pitcher was crazy, that crazy pitch thag he supposedly made up, what a time to be a young baller
I needed this video. I always wondered what happened to him.
Timely enough Matsuzaka talked about this Gyroball thing just days ago in a podcast. He said that he has nothing to do with the naming and it's probably a cutter that sometimes didn't quite cut.
Such a short lived career but did so much in that time. Loved watching this dude pitch.
I think he would've been a better pitcher today with proper coaching and planning around pitch tunneling or just going after hitters like Darvish does. His arsenal was so good but he was so irritating to watch because he'd do nothing but try to paint corners so he'd end up with 9 strikeouts and 5 walks while barely getting through 5 innings.
Also with modern pitch limits… he had so much mileage on his arm already
I remember the overhype as it was during my senior year of high school. People on ESPN were talking about having a separate ROTY award for international rookies; then the award ended up going to his teammate, Dustin Pedroia.
Awesome video I was actually at that opening day and his office big league start it was really cool seeing him pitch that pitch I was lucky enough to sit behind home plate and you wzvhouldnt have believed the motion and the way it looked coming out of his hand. 🎉 Thanks again for the awesome content
As a Royals fan, his debut came against us, so that must’ve been a red flag
6 years/$52 million in salary gone.
AND $51.1 million in bidding rights. Huge historical L for the Sox
I miss pitchers hitting 🥲
As a Sox fan I have to say the second world baseball classic is what killed his career. He had spent a year in the mlb with a pitch count and different types of training. He was clearly over pitched in that wbc when he was back in the Japanese system. If he didn’t have a year with a pitch count he might not have needed tommy John just my opinion though
On a family trip to Toronto, we went to a Baseball game as red sox fans. My cousin was wearing a DiceK jersey and a Japanese photographer was very excited to see that and took his picture during pregame
RIP to my Dice-K jersey 🤣
I remember the Daisuke hype. As a Yankees fan I was very scared when I learned he joined the Red Sox
I feel that pitchers who come from Japan are already on the downturn by the time they come over to the states. I also think many of them can't adjust to the 5-man rotations we use. While some had decently long careers (Nomo comes to mind), I really can't think of anyone who was dominant for any stretch of time.
Shohei 😅😅😅
At the time I didn't know Matsuzaka was so hyped up I was just glad he showed out for my favorite team
Whenever a Japanese player seems to be really good, all the «break baseball» talk starts again
He was a good pitcher, but if Randy Johnson didn’t break baseball nobody can or ever will.
What the heck am I watching? That pitch is outrageous
Masahiro Tanaka also deserved a shutout. In his final season in the NPB before playing for the Yankees he had an undefeated season.
For RedSox ….don’t forget Koji Uehara🎉
Daisuke Matsuzaka is a name a will never forget that man sent fear into me when i was a kid watching yankees games
I liked Dice-K I was rooting for him! Not a red Sox fan but I liked watching him pitch!
Still a superstar 100%
Isn't a gyroball just a hanging slider?
Dice K was an important part of that 2007 team tho, he helped win a championship his very first year one of the best pitchers in baseball. He fell off every year afterwards tho which was disappointing
Daisuke was better than prime Randy Johnson in Power Pros 2007
Had a ton of hype and was really good at first. Hopefully this isn’t what Senga will be like because he also allows a ton of walks.
I think Senga will be just fine
@@SportStorm23 only good pitcher the Mets got
Definitely a worry. Daisuke stopped being able to manage the extra runners he put on base a couple years in, and he started pitching in MLB 4 years younger than Senga.
I feel like daisuke came too late. He had pitched so much in japan that he was in the decline when he came over
I would never pay 110$ for a shirt a guy signed. Do not get these autograph guys. And why would i want "game worn cleats"? You mean dirty shoes?
now do Masahiro Tanaka plz
Nomo was amazing!
I never understand the crazy hype for a player that has already played 8+ years of pro ball before they come to US for MLB. ESPECIALLY A PITCHER. Those guys are all past their prime at that point, and have a TON of mileage on them. They are NEVER going to be as good as they were for more than a season or two. I get the idea of making a lot of money from Japanese fans and all, but it's never worth it in the end, on the field anyway.
If i had a nickel for every time barry zito was mentioned in this video, id have two nickels. Which isnt much, but its weird that it happened twice.
great video. subscribed.
Thank you!
Do a video about Odubel Herrera.
Ah Daisuke, I was so hyped for him. Shame he didn't really pan out. Thanks SportStorm.
Gyroball doesn't spin sideways that's called a slider. Gyroball spins in a spiral not sideways. slider spins this way⬅ and the gyroball spins this way 🔃 . And It doesn't stay straight it drops a lot and breaks late toward the glove side.
It’s called a gyro slider, which countless pitchers throw.
@@treadathletics It shouldn’t be called a slider at all . The gyroscopic spin is completely different and the behavior of the ball is different.
@emmanuelwood8702 in part this was due to misinformation propagated at the time by Baseball Prospectus writer Will Carroll, who in 2005 misidentified a sweeper slider as a gyroball. The actual gyro-slider used today is essentially the originally hypothesized gyroball pitch, with little horizontal movement and mostly dropping down. See Luis Castillo, Sandy Alcantara, and a few other pitchers today that throw the pitch.
@@DominusK10 It shouldn't be called a slider though, it's a completely different pitch.
@@DominusK10 They also knew about this “pitch” in the past they called it a "cement mixer" aka "hanger and avoided doing it because it was a mistake pitch that would often lead to home runs. They knew that a properly thrown slider aka what people are calling a “sweeper” now was more effective . They knew about all this stuff without analytics since the 60s.
Japanese pitchers come to the MLB and throw half as much. That’s why majority of them have arm issues after a few years here. Nolan Ryan was right. Pitchers need to throw more.
7:22 interesting newspaper
Remembering they paid 50mil just to negotiate makes me feel better that the twins paid 5mil to negotiate with Nishioka… at least the Red Sox got a solid if not great starter for a few years. We got nothing of they sort.
I still think the knuckle ball is a hard pitch to hit. The bottom just falls out lol
I thought Okajima was more valuable to the Sox during that time.
One of the hardest nicknames in baseball 🔥
He helped his team win at least 1 championship, that alone is worth the price of admission.
Holy shit I totally forgot about this dude
Who the hell wants correa gear
JJ putz threw the fork ball as well son
He was baseball when we believed the gyroball was real
man, senga should have been on my giants :(
I'm sure he's just fine with the amount of yen in his bank account. Plus he won a freakin world series his rookie year.
He def was a sight to behold.
Good video but only told the results. But it doesn't dive into why. DM had his pitching regimen in happen which allowed him to pitch more then 150 pitches per game. Then after the game, he would throw another 50 pitches in a bullpen session. Boston completely changed that abs wouldn't let him care for his arm as he had been doing since HS. DM was not happy about the restrictions and pitch count and how Boston changed everything. One could speculate that it was Bostons way of caring for arms ruined him. If he had been allowed to care for his arm as he always has, perhaps he would be that guy who changed baseball.
Can't evenn lie tho... Dice-K left his mark.. Go Sox❤️💙⚾️🔥🔥❤️💙