Disappointed to hear such handwringing and pussyfooting around the issue of the UK/US/ German /EU positions on ICJ interim view and the subsequent reaction by the west to withdraw UNRWA funding - call it out for what it is !
Yep. About time too. Time to stop. Jihadi victimhood or should the Dalmatian Italians chave their own relief agency? Or the million Jews drive out of Muslim counoftpn 1948 onwards?
Do you live on another planet? The most western media is very concerned with the Palestinian civilians. Unless by "Western Media" you simply mean FoxNews.
You wouldn't be criticizing anyone for killing Palestinians unless they were Jews. You wouldn't be taking a war and calling it a genocide. Everyone knows it.
@@TizBaz5that's not true, and it's a bit troubling that you believe that it is with no evidence to support your conclusion (i.e. you don't know me at all, nor my history of concerns). I've been worried about other large scale mass killings (i.e. in Myanmar) , and I think it's important to distinguish between Israel and Jews (many of my Jewish friends do not support the actions of the Israeli governmemt). It seems that Israelis feel they're being held to a higher moral standard than other states, which, if true, is probably fair when you consider how much money is being spent on their army by the US. The desire to see anti-semitism under every rock only provides a secure rhetotical fortress, similiar in some respects to "whataboutism". Too many modern groups use a historical oppression to deny any possibility that they themselves could be perpetrators of oppression.
@@TizBaz5im afraid the world can see in real time. Zionists are not the Jewish people, they are extremists. Same as every muslim is not an extremist. Thousands of hours of Jewish leaders and academics explaining this online. Maybe educate yourself a little outside of Zionist propoganda and brainwashing. People are truley disturbed by what Israel is getting away with, the apartheid and slaughter. Been going in for decades and decades. Thankfully people e erywhere are now seeing the reality, they are showing us and even filming themselves. Or uave you missed this 😢
I started reading Haaretz newspaper over the last few months. I'm stunned at the politics and background of some of Netanyahu's government, the likes of National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir. I had no idea it was this bad. It's clear that territorial expansion is the whole goal behind of the razing of Gaza, and it's ridiculous that they make no secret of it yet our media is silent on that point. They absolutely will not stop at Israel's borders. This iteration of Israel simply has to be stopped by the international community, or it will be stopped by its neighbours, at the price of millions of lives. Unfortunately I envisage a 1945 style international occupation of the smoldering ruins of Israel and Palestine, and the forced de-radicalisation of both population's children over the course of a generation. And that's the most hopeful outcome I can imagine.
@andypeutherer4218 I am surprised the lack of knowledge on history and that some people are trying to to compare Israel to hamas, the PA and the surrounding Arab nations. Have you ever wondered why there are no jews in the surrounding Arab nations? It's because the surrounding Arab nations violently expelled 900,000 Mizrahi jews during the 1940's through to the 50s. But whatever.
@@evamurray2564And what conclusion are we supposed to draw from that?Muslims commied evil against the Jews and therefore now its the Jews turn to commit the same evil,grow up dude,this "Tit for tat" atitude you people have,it never has and never will solve something like ethnic tensions,this conflict is basically supercharging both anti-semitism and Islamaphobia everywhere,Hamas is growing like some genetically modified virus,all those Islamic terror groups like ISIS that have been reduced to bits are now returning with all their insanity using this terror bombing campaign and IDF war crimes(Don't deny it dude,we have all seen the IDF tiktoks,Israeli isn't hiding anything they are doing) as a propaganda recruiting tool
@@evamurray2564 "They did it to the Jews so Jews must do the same to them",so were we supposed to kill the 70 million Germans once we had defeated and occupied Germany in 1945?And by this logic the entirety of Japanese,Chinese,every race of ethnic Europeans,every race of Africans should all be murdered,are you really telling us that we should kill about 60% of the worlds population?
You do realise that these "millions" who you speak of are entirely free to donate their own money to an aid organisation in Gaza if they wish to. ? If their cinscience really requires them to do so. What they can't do is require that other people,who do not wish to give money or aid to Hamas, to similarly give their o we n money. The decisins of the varios governments reflect these two positions. Those who want can give personally and those who do not want to give are not forced to do so against their beliefs. If there ar "millikons" then the aniunt of aid will exceed the the amount most natinal govts would othewuse have provided.
You must be joking…They are doing everything not to be taken to task by the Jewish lobby….don’t want to be labeled anti semitic….The UNRWA story was run to cancel the ICJ report which was largely ignored..
People aren't voting because of a lack of decent candidates on all sides. The old right/left choices don't apply anymore. Policies don't chime with world events anymore.
I seriously believe there could be a hung Parliament at the next election if enough people decide to vote for anyone except the Red/Blue parties. People don't usually cast protest votes at General Elections, but these are not normal times we're living in.
@@simonfrost7094 IT still results in a government anyway, just a hamstrung one thats even LESS effective than normal. Don't forget these are people made up of the populous. Put shit in, get shit out.
@@sarahpengelly8439 Yep. Our Prime Minister said no further payments would be made until the foreign minister is "satisfied" over accusations about staff involvement in Hamas attacks. It's so pathetic and hypocritical considering the silence on the ICJ ruling.
@@helenm6754 If you're disgusted, your ire should be directed at the UNRWA for having employed terrorists. Not for outside parties to have an issue with the terrorists in their midst.
Exactly. They and we all know Israel wants all the land it can get hold of and doesn’t care who else is on it whether they be Muslim Christian or whatever. Israel Is an ethno-occupying state ethnically cleansing the locals for 75 years. Anything else is a footnote and that is how the leaders of Israel see this recent war
It is difficult though isn’t it. If it were simple, it would have been solved by now. Why do we have to ignore nuance all the time. Just because we wish it were easy, does not make it so.
Hamas returns the 136 hostages including the 1year old baby and hiab4 year old brother and there will be a cease fire tomorrow. Israel express aim which this podcast totally failed to mention is the return of the hostages. To paraphrase Clinton, IT’S THE HOSTAGES STUPID.
A British, South African Israeli here listening. I found Rory in the last year and have loved listening to a politician who cares. I have come to expect nothing from politicians. I live in Israel and am following what is happening in Gaza (independent media). And find myself in a minority that cares. Although I limit visuals, as there is nothing I can do. There essentially is a mandate for this war. And even if things could be different, I honestly do not know how. How do you fight a military target embedded in a civilian population that supports the armed struggle? I don't trust Israel to manage this war. The government has done a terrible job returning hostages. And is never going to be able to eliminate Hamas... and yet such an attack as 07.10 also can not be ignored. Fighting an armed resistence embedded in the civilian population? Its a lose lose situation. Specifically Gazan civikians. And given the history (naqba), civilans cannot flee. And given that Egypt and Israel won't open the borders, civilians cannot leave. Which seems untenable. Locking civilians in a war zone. Altogether, I can not think of a more forgotten people than the people of Gaza, despite the international attention and disgust at Israel. I think most Israelis just do not see the suffering there as a result of Israeli action. But rather a result of Hamas.
Does Alistair Campbell call the decision by the ICJ " remarkable " becuase it’s wrong or its becuase Israel has never had to face any official criticism by the International Judiciary and he’s just surprised ?
Over the past decades, any criticism of the Israeli government is deemed anti semitic. Yet we might criticize the Indian government without being labeled anti Hindu or the Saudi government without being labeled anti Islam. It’s time this well oiled and funded propaganda machine was brought to account, so the ICJ ruling is a welcome start.
You are completely wrong. It is and has always been perfectly legitimate to criticize the government. What is not legitimate is to deny the state's right to exist, and yet a large percentage of people criticizing Israel are doing just that.
@@TizBaz5 There's absolutely people that are labeling criticsm of Israel as antisemitic and it's gone way too far. I've often seen it go like this: is essential for Israels existance -> Critique of Israel on is antisemitic It's a closed mindeness to alternatives and it sometimes goes to this extreme of israels choices being the only options that arent antisemitic.
@@TizBaz5why is it not right to question the existence of a state that could not itself exist without the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population? Are we not allowed to question a state whose very existence came into being through an act of colonialism that gave one group of people the land at the expense of another? That is not to say that Jews should not live there. They of course should. But why can we not talk about a state where all people and all religions can live as equals in all aspects of civic life. Is that not entirely consistent with values of freedom, equality, democracy and human rights? That is the opposite of Zionism of course. Are you saying it is not legitimate to question Zionism? If not, why not? And who decided that?
@@TizBaz5 No, he's got a very strong point. Also, it's worth reading Palestinian Walks: Notes on a Vanishing Landscape for more of an idea of how the Israeli government's (illegal) actions have affected Palestinians.
I have never been one to give much time to politics, but you have both changed my habit of a lifetime. The balance that you both strike, keeps me interested. Thanks for the insight
This is true. However, in the case of this specific conflict, it is obvious that both sides really are in the wrong. Both sides have killed civilians, which is a war crime.
That’s the shocker. The enthralled audience of this pair seem to be blissfully unaware that as Tony Blair’s communication director Campbell was more responsible for current wars on this planet than just about anyone else
It is wrong to withhold support for UNRWA. It is clearly in conflict with the ICJ interim decision and more than that it completely lacks all compassion. It leaves me sad and disgusted.
Shouldn't the surrounding Muslim nations be taking care of the aid issue. Charity is one of the pillars of their religion and Muslims are meant to help each other. They're closer to the issue and would know what's needed most. Isn't that the optimal solution? If not why not?
They probably already do. The nations that can at least, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq couldn't help the Palestinians even if they tried, they simply do not have the funds. @@SmilingAzaleaFlower-uh9wi
@@abdihakimjama1556 so... You're telling me the rich Muslim nations in the middle east can't cover cover the entire cost themselves? They need us.... How much aid do they send to Europe? Shall we Google that quickly... Find out...
if this is where you get informed, thats a terrible sign, these guys are basically reading out scripts to tell you what to feel, alistair is a spin doctor, that was his job, to spin the truth and lies together to make a party or country look good while they take part in war crimes. please research the jewish historian, have you seen people refer to the mitchell and webb sketch of the two gestapo officers chatting, and mitchell talks about his uniform and asks webb '' are we the baddies?'' if youre not on that page, you have been misled and being misled.
At some point I am going to have to give up on trying to understand what is going on. I'm 52 years old and I am realising that I am incapable of keeping up to date with the world. I give up. I'm just going to watch David Attenborough stuff.
Im sorry to say the discussion here on the atrocities in Palestine was superficial and devoid of key context. Not a single mention of Israel’s occupation. not a single mention of the status of Gaza - how is it that Israel can cut off water electricity and food to the population?? I guess it’s symbolic of the indifference the UK establishment has to the unspeakable suffering of the people not like ‘us’. Over 10,000 children killed and we are helping them do it! Where is the outrage? Deaf blind and dumb we roll on.
There are no ID cards or requirement to register an address (driving licences require address and more complicated tax affairs would) so the local government has no register of who lives where unless you are in contact with them in some way. A person with no car and an average job where the employer deals with the tax could live at an unknown location to the government.
Apparently, and we don't hear about it, there are 500,000 in North Gaza are dying from lack of food. From Leila Hatoum" Over HALF A MILLION people in NORTH GAZA have little time to survive. Famine has already hit them. they're without food or clean water (diseases spread from contaminated water) The zioisraeli occupation is bombing civilians under siege"
There is over capacity for humanitarian aid processing by both egypt and israel at raffa. Israel opened a second distribution point at K Shalom to assist gaza in distribution difficulties. The problem sits inside gaza. UNRWA and other NGOs cannot process the amount of aid waiting to be distributed and hamas steals aid arriving in gaza. Refer Mr Levy on FOX daily updates. Gaza has been screaming starvation since October, yet videos of captured hamas terrorists showed overweight men. Go figure
The American Republican party will be delighted to learn that famine is doing the work that expensive weapons do, they can happily send more weapons to their proxies in Ukraine.
I think it is well accepted that Hamas continues to provide numbers of deaths and injuries that are not substantiated. It’s all part of their strategy of appealing to a squeamish left leaning western world view.
I do despair at the imbalance in the world 3 adults that shows a career in the army and we'll put in harm's way by their government as opposed to 10,000 children in Palestine who did not choose where or when they were born or who they were born to where is there response
One of the most unbiased, informative podcasts without a political agenda.Keep going guys, we all need to hear these kind of factual, logical, reasoned discussions
When I hear people in Gaza expressing grievances about their treatment by Israelis, I can't help but think about the hostages seized by the Gaza Hamas authorities on October 7th last year. Unfortunately, the current Israeli leadership seems determined to reciprocate the lack of compassion shown by Gaza's Hamas leaders on that day when women and children were slaughtered. . They have no intention of playing nice and are leaning towards eliminating Hamas once and for all. Until the hostages are released, Israel is unlikely to back down. How often are we seeing any mention of the hostages in the news today?
Every day it is mentioned. Every single day. I'm not in Israel, but Northern Europe. You are also equating the acts of Hamas with the acts of civilians. Which are two totally separate groups. The problem was so eloquently put. They are not getting the Hamas leaders but are cutting swathes through the civilian population. The probability of them getting all of Hamas them is none, zero. So if that's the war aim this will be a never ending war at the current level collateral damage to property/Civilians/UN staff (162 last time I looked)/journalists(93 last time I looked)/aid workers etc
The difference is that Hamas are a terrorist group, Israel is a sovereign country with legal obligations to behave in an acceptable way. Netanyahu is a neo Nazi thug whose aim is to kill as many Palestinians as he can, and the West just says that's OK. No sane person wants Hamas to gain a victory, but Israel makes it hard to like them.
Some might allegedly ask is Alister “ I take responsibility for the fight dossier the subsequent war in Iraq and the destabilisation of the region which significantly resulted in illegal migration westward” Campbell an appropriate person to talk about Israel?
@@Jacob-df5hr Ye because it's important to be dispassionate when discussing the ongoing death and destruction in Gaza. That's the reasonable response to what we can see via the internet daily.....
Speaking of how we treat Palestinians differently as human beings, does anyone in media ever say so easily of Palestinians 'You can understand the trauma' given that the heaps of corpses, wounded, crippled, traumatized and burning with vengeance are undeniably multiples more, from the British Mandate to now?
You can understand the trauma. That doesn't in any way excuse the actions of October 7. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless.
When Rory said he was trying to understand the Israeli perspective on Palestinian suffering and he mentioned how the news in Israel doesnt show it and that could be why they are apathetic about it- it reminded me of when people were trying to understand why Brits voted for Brexit. Rather than actually putting yourself in their shoes and trying to understand their feelings you immediately go to 'they are being misled' 'they are uninformed/ignorant' it really just comes across as arrogant.
The hesitation by the UK, Germany and the US over the "genocide" case at the ICJ might have something to do with the links between South Africa and Iran
South Africa brought the case they did not make the judgement. The United Nations International Court of Justice has eminent judges from and has the job of upholding International Law. Their judgements are independent of individual nations and should be taken seriously. It was them, not South Africa or Iran who said the case for genocide is plausible. The ICJ did not throw out the case as Israel wished and suggested they had a case to answer.
Those countries that have 'paused' their UNRWA contributions show they have little humanity for anyone. On the word of the Israel government (the day after the I.C.J ruling) concerning allegations about a small number of UNRWA workers the US was very quick to be their henchmen, quickly followed by their lackey countries. Austria, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Romania, Sweden, USA, Iceland, UK, Japan and Australia. These countries are imposing collective punishment on a civilian population which is on the verge of extinction. We in Ireland are totally ashamed of our European neighbours in particular. What are they thinking of? Are they all that much in hock to the US$? I would hope that when tragedy stricks in their country (as it surely will someday) they will ponder what additional misery they have inflicted on those poor souls in Gaza. Shame on you all.
Did you see what UNRWA is teaching in schools?.They teach Mein Kampf and train children to shoot Kalachnikovs. I am not willing to sponsor it wit my tax money.
Stop lying. The decisions of those countries that you are complaining of is not "collective punishment". A decision by a nation state to give money that it has taken from its own citizens to people who do not live in that nation state is entirely discretionary. The recipients of such aid do not have a legal entitlement to be paid that aid, and the donor nation can turn ofv the tap at any time for any reason. When this legal reality is understood, then little or no weight should be given to any drcision to cut aid funding. Collective punishment involves te taking an unlawful act againnst a group of people.. As shown above the fecisions are not unlawful and therefore can not be colective punishment. If you are concenef about rectifying collective punishment, we can start with Tunisia and Libya unlawfully expelling their entire Jewish popuations, . Or Turkey that appproriated the Hagia Sophia cathedral and rxently converted it into a mosque as a punishment to the few remaining Christians who rmain in Turkey.
@@whitewittock Because they're offering it now that it is practically impossible, given that Gaza is rubble and the WB is Swiss cheese. Halting weapons shipments and pushing for sanctions would be more meaningful.
30:40 We should be honest and as a result we should crack on and start rebuilding the military. I'm an aerospace engineering student its shocking how poorly defence companies perform and particularly there are huge problems with competency in regular or routine work and how these contracts should be structured. The government should be regularly commissioning protype equipment and also revisions of legacy equipment to make them cheaper/more up to date/futureproofing for use in a reserve role. But currently Britain doesn't have a standalone defence company of any kind which should also be of concern, its also the case that most european countries don't have a standalone defence company, which is partly why much of the defence equipment is starting to become homogenous. Despite differing requirements. I think the key point of any kind if anyone actually reads this is that there is this strong idea that countries like russia are relying on the fruits of an empire that has since gone, but there is not this idea in the west. Constantly people talk of american superiority but in reality this doesn't go anywhere near as far as people think because of the cost of it. Apart form the F-35, which is exceptionally costly to run, for most countries the bulk of their equipment is at minimum 20 years old and in particular the companies and even the plants they were built by and in no longer exist.
Excellent and thoughtful comment. Thank you. I hope others read it and take heed. We are sleepwalking into an increasingly dangerous situation, and need to wake up and realise how vulnerable western society is. Years ago my normally placid father told his four young boys that we were ‘very lucky to grow up in a time of relative peace.’ I thought that Dad, who was born in Liverpool in 1929, was being a bit silly. I don’t think that now.
I guess most countries in Europe haven't invested in their military for the last 20 years because they felt the end of the Cold War meant they could and that the USA, in it's self-appointed role of global and European policeman would come to the rescue if things got really bad again. So they spent the 'peace dividend' on other things and allowed the infrastructure of procuring, researching and developing military hardware to fall away.
The UK MoD doesn't have the money, only because we choose not to spend what we need. We still spend less than 2% od GDP. We are in the same situation as the 1930s, of wishful thinking that will cost us our liberty and soverignty if we don't get sane in time.
It happens often, that in a war zone the humanitarian relief is being captured by a war party, that then “helps” by distributing the help only to its own supporters, while making the helpers bad…its a 10 to 20y old dispute and dilemma, that many say that help for Gaza lands too often in the wrong hands. This last news about the UN-Gaza mission is just the last push that toppled the trust in this organization. It’s especially controversial in Germany.
@@Hesham_MK it’s a permanent discussion in Germany and other EU countries each time rockets we’re flying from Gaza or there were more organized attacks and grab of prisoners etc. Each time there was the question how things got into Gaza, with what was it payed and why construction materials, bought for houses and other infrastructure, land in smuggling tunnels to Egipt, Israel and so on. And this happened many times in the past 20-30y. If You didn’t hear about such things I can’t help you.
@@Hesham_MK no allegation. Most recent for me seen in official news (no yt or TikTok): Few days ago interview with a German UN worker that was stationed in Gaza. He stated that it is not easy to distribute the humanitarian help, so they had to use the Hamas organization. But after complaining that not enough reached the people it was supposed to reach, he got some warnings that Hamas was unhappy with his attitude and the UN decided to take him out and give him another job.
@@micumatrix This is the problem it takes 1 uncorroborated allegation from the opponent to withdraw funding and not just 1 country but the usual suspects while the ICJ orders Israel to take measures (you know them) to prevent genocide the USA and European backers fast track arming Israel. You tell me what this is called?
to say this is a 10 to 20 year long dispute, surely you know thats simply untrue? hamas is effectively the government in gaza, it admisters health, infrastructure and all the things associated with governance, unrwa funds everything. so to imagine there is no overlap or corruption or infiltration would be niave. i would even bet mossad and the cia have operatives in both hamas and unrwa, thats just how these agnecies work. so, all that said, its clear you have a bias against anything from one side. i would question if that bias is completely undermining any real logic? i would bet money that people in germany are as against zionism as the rest of the world, it is only politicians who seem to think israel can do no wrong. so you are either a politician, or a german person who is sick of seeing muslims in your country. i understand. i hope we can find a way to make everybody happy. the un for all its many many flaws and corruptions is all we have, toppling it would be inhumane, fixing it? i notice that isnt on your radar, strange. you wouldnt call for firing all the police officers because you found 12 criminal ones. and the un is much more important than the police by a factor of billions.
36m in Alistair Campbell says he feels uneasy about the different standards the media have when displaying Israeli.v Palestinian casualties. A perfect example of English understatement. It's in their DNA! ....and I love this podcast...
Is it "wise" for the USA to litter its troops across the Middle East given local feelings toward Washington? The US troops currently in Syria are there ILLEGALLY! Washington has a very selective "respect" for international sovereignty.
Rory. You are brilliant, but l don’t understand how u can approve of hunting. Think about it. An animal is torn to pieces for the amusement of the riders! It’s barbaric!
I am extremely disappointed by this discussion between the two of you. (very unusual) But not once did either of you mention any history of the Palestinian/ Israel confict. Neither did you mention talking to any Palestinians recently & getting a perspective from them. The issue of occupation, stealing land, erasing villages & dehumanisation by the armed forces & settlers for decades was totally & inexplicably absent. The despicable attack by Hamas & the situation in Gaza CANNOT be discussed even briefly without some reference to the crimes above. I now find myself checking Ha'aretz & one of its long established journalists Gideon Levy for a true interpretation of what is happening.
They have discussed all this and more in previous podcasts. They can't keep iterating the same things. Go back & listen. They assume ppl are following these podcasts and are keeping up
I may be particularly ill informed but we've had wall to wall coverage of the tragedy of the three US military personnel deaths. Nowhere in the media have I seen/heard of the number of deaths, military or civilian, caused by the numerous & comparatively huge US & UK airstrikes. Why not?
If You listen to german podcasts, do You know “Sicherheitshalber”? Won last year highest price given by journalists in Germany. Thomas Wiegold, Carlo Masala etc. I could swear I heard them saying the 40% spending on military by Russia is not correct…
Was the odious Johnson not "humorously" and "self-deprecatingly" impersonating the Clive Dunn character in Dad's Army rather than offering himself as a corporal with any seriousness.
It's an arbitrary label. If you like a politician, you label them as popular. If you dislike a politician, you label them as populist. How does anyone get elected if their policies aren't popular?
populism has come to mean, gathering all the stupid knee jerk voters with strange combos like racists along with religous along with elitists who just want power. religous will get in bed with racists if it means outlawing abortion, racists will get in bed with elitists who are just playing them for power. its not a new formula for winning votes.
As usual a great discussion! What about one on healthy eating! Shd certain foods be banned as is advertising cigarettes. Also we have a dreadful obesity problem causing a fortune on the.N.H.S.
@@dh1380 That's the difficulty. Indoctrination into any political or religious system boxes the victims into a restricted linguistic mindset. Both politicians and priests perpetuate this language blindness and negatively profile as 'other' and 'evil' any attempts to penetrate it. Politicians and priests act as mesmerists that are parasitical upon their victim's minds to the point when they can drive them about to do any of their bidding that they so choose.
Slight problem. One side thinks the bible has gifted them the land the other side is living on and we are arming the ones with the religious texts. How can you think the world is so simple?
Very true by Rory stewart. Aljazeera shows the suffering that is taking place in Gaza and CNN and some global north news media shows less atrocities in gaza. I think there is a certain narrative about the situation in gaza from this media channels.
The Integrated Food Security and Nutrition Phase Classification (IPC) has confirmed that the entire population of Gaza - about 2.2 million people - is facing high levels of acute food insecurity or worse, with one in four households facing catastrophic conditions." CNN
The stats on polling fascinates me because it reflects me a lot. I personally appreciate labour party chatter in the lead up to the election, but I'm not confident in them enough to vote for them because of some outrageous policies that overshadow everything good
Nevermind. I emailed my labour candidate after I missed a door knock from his campaigner. He seemed completely happy with the current uncontrolled immigration and more importantly doesn't seem to believe there is a problem with integration. He also came across very Kier centric and waiting power. He also appeared to claim that breaching the equality act is ok in the name of free speech. Needless to say our thoughts didn't align and this *was* the closest I've ever been to supporting Labour. Fascinating
I can't believe that I'm actually enjoying Campbell's input despite all the stuff he did re Iraq. I'm willing to chalk all that up to him just being a political operative at the time so I can rationalise being a subscriber to myself. 🤦♂
Johnson can't sign up, he's far beyond the upper age limit. In any case he decreased the size of the army in the first place. You guys mentioned in a recent pod how supportive Jphnson has been on Ukraine, but let us not forget that he allowed several Russian billionaires to leave with their fortunes before he implemented meaningful sanctions.
Vladimir Putin was ready to negotiate peace on terms that were far more favourable to Ukraine after his advance on Kiev failed than anything they're likely to get now and Boris Johnson flew out to Kiev to personally prevent that by telling Zelensky that the UK and US would not back the agreement. Now over hundred thousand more Ukrainians are dead and the Russians are slowly advancing across the front. Is what he did support or sabotage?
Johnson was supportive of Ukraine while he was PM, but even that seems to be breaking. Since leaving office he seems to have been cosying up to US Republicans who are emphatically *not* supportive of Ukraine.
Viewers should check out Israel Hayom, Meet the 15-year-old whose Oct. 7 story transformed Israeli hasbara. It is a fascinating article with real life experiences.
I think that Israeli public opinion can be understood in the context of their being placed in a Pearl Harbor-ish situation; the response is to apply all the force possible until the enemy is destroyed. In the US case, this was largely accompanied by an attitude that the niceties be damned, while Israel does actually appear to be continuing certain practices that are tactically more costly when it comes to close combat situations, rather than the indiscriminate application of HE. In the US case, we did very deliberately apply incendiaries and nukes once we decided that HE was insufficiently expeditious. The argument that Israel is being subjected to a different set of standards in international law is legitimate. As you noted, ICJ has not bothered to go after certain egregious situations because the offenders in those cases view the ICJ as easily ignored air guitar jurisprudence, but happily pursued a case against Israel thinking that the nature of the Israeli state could mean that Israel might choose to pay them some mind. With respect to UNWRA, it seems that several states have concluded that UNWRA is as much an organ of Hamas as it is the UN.
Why is it that Palestinian lives are not important compared to Israeli lives, it is pure fascism, why don't you say exactly what it is. Also everybody knows that Israel just want to get rid of Palestinians in any way they can, so they can have all the land. Why don't you mention the gas reserves off Gaza that belongs to the Palestinians but Israel won't let them have access to.
So what u chaps are saying is that kids in Gaza are having limbs amputated without anaesthetic because Netanyahu doesn't want to lose his job. What an effing monster.
Jared's a crooked business con-man. His only claim to fame was wheedling his way to $2.5 billion in Saudi Money. It helped that his was father-in-law was the American president.
"Unfortunate" Alistair, that was your thought about the UK ceasing to fund the only humanitarian group providing schools, health and other vital services in Palestine, at a time when aid is systematically held up and denied entry by Israel as Palestinians are being slaughtered, starved, dieing from injuries because the 2500 beds cant cope with the 60,000 injured? "Unfortunate"? Good grief man, this conversation is apalling as you both skirt around pretending to discuss the hard stuff going on in the ME.
@@lisaglaze250 yes I do think that the UK should support the French more in similar circumstances than the Saudis, it would be strange to me if those who are hugely rich and in the same region etc etc didn't offer most help
War is the continuation of politics by other means. It has been nearly 20 years since the Second Lebanon War and since then diplomacy under many differerent administrations failed, so now it will be war until the situation stabilises again. We will just have to see what the political situation is when the dust clears.
How sad. Theses seasoned commentators talk about genocide with a sense of quiet resignation and sadness. No anger. No condemnation of cutting off aid to Palestinians a day after ICJ report ( yes aid to civilians not bombs for IDF ) No recognition that this is really about ethic cleansing and genocide Shameful crocodile tears
Aussie (largely) right wing meja slam Albo for breaking a "promise" - as though no liberal(conservative) poitician has ever done so.... I know different! And without the beneifits to the hoi polloi of Albo's rejigged cuts......
The ICJ simply restated the ground rules, obey the Law, as a sop to the Shia. However, Israel's reacted badly to that, given the UN did nothing for decades, leading to the second Shoah. Simply bleating piously isn't how to lead. You know what's not been said, Rori, about Pakistan, and the specific references to the Taliban and ISI, better viewed as the Pashtun clan.
Around 10y Iran had a more moderate president and all his good work with western diplomats was permanently torpedoed by this paramilitary group (revolutionary guards?), that practically has a parallel order with own army, factories etc.(Rohani, that was forbidden now to join the group that decides the next president or mullah?) They are the main guys in Iraq and Syria fighting ISIS, US, Israel and they never wanted freedom. If Iran can’t get a hold of them they are practically the biggest terrorist organization threatening Iran, Israel and the whole peace in the region.
Rory is really obsessed with Pakistan's relations with the Taliban, he clearly seems to have been traumatised. It's a relationship blown out of proportions, and he can't seem to be able to let go.
UNRWA's message to the Palestinians? You can choose war over peace and still expect to get everything you want. Bottom Line: You cannot call yourself 'oppressed' if you constantly refuse any solution for peace (that doesn't include the eradication of the other side).
About the talking to your enemies part, as an Israeli I can tell you that the public here feels like we tried to talk to our enemies, and granted them lands (through the Oslo agreements and Gaza). The result was a Gaza dominated by Hamas, the only more terrorist organization than Fatah
@@isabellevince5174 The people living on the land didn't own it either. The last nation state to really officially incorporate the Palestinian territories was the Ottoman empire. Both the Egyptian and the Jordanian kept the land separate from their countries main territory when they controlled Gaza and the West Bank respectively. When they Brits administered it via the mandate, they didn't own it either and during that time, no-one had a clear contract to eventually own the land. There only existed ambiguous intentions set out for the mandate. It was during that time of ambiguity that Israel declared itself a state.
@isabellevince5174 That is not correct. However, the continued settling of the West Bank is stealing. The origins of the State are not the same as what is going on now. It went to the UN for an International judgement. Also much of the land was bought from the Arab population who did not at that time call themselves Palestinians.
Disappointed to hear such handwringing and pussyfooting around the issue of the UK/US/ German /EU positions on ICJ interim view and the subsequent reaction by the west to withdraw UNRWA funding - call it out for what it is !
Yep. About time too. Time to stop. Jihadi victimhood or should the Dalmatian Italians chave their own relief agency? Or the million Jews drive out of Muslim counoftpn 1948 onwards?
nearly turned off at that point.
It is highly worth criticizing Western Media for not humanizing Palestinians. This has been going on for years. It's entirely ridiculous.
Do you live on another planet? The most western media is very concerned with the Palestinian civilians. Unless by "Western Media" you simply mean FoxNews.
I think the word you were looking for is "grotesque". It is grotesque to be complicit in genocide, not ridiculous, illegal and grotesque.
You wouldn't be criticizing anyone for killing Palestinians unless they were Jews. You wouldn't be taking a war and calling it a genocide. Everyone knows it.
@@TizBaz5that's not true, and it's a bit troubling that you believe that it is with no evidence to support your conclusion (i.e. you don't know me at all, nor my history of concerns).
I've been worried about other large scale mass killings (i.e. in Myanmar) , and I think it's important to distinguish between Israel and Jews (many of my Jewish friends do not support the actions of the Israeli governmemt).
It seems that Israelis feel they're being held to a higher moral standard than other states, which, if true, is probably fair when you consider how much money is being spent on their army by the US.
The desire to see anti-semitism under every rock only provides a secure rhetotical fortress, similiar in some respects to "whataboutism".
Too many modern groups use a historical oppression to deny any possibility that they themselves could be perpetrators of oppression.
@@TizBaz5im afraid the world can see in real time. Zionists are not the Jewish people, they are extremists. Same as every muslim is not an extremist. Thousands of hours of Jewish leaders and academics explaining this online. Maybe educate yourself a little outside of Zionist propoganda and brainwashing. People are truley disturbed by what Israel is getting away with, the apartheid and slaughter. Been going in for decades and decades. Thankfully people e erywhere are now seeing the reality, they are showing us and even filming themselves. Or uave you missed this 😢
I started reading Haaretz newspaper over the last few months. I'm stunned at the politics and background of some of Netanyahu's government, the likes of National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir. I had no idea it was this bad. It's clear that territorial expansion is the whole goal behind of the razing of Gaza, and it's ridiculous that they make no secret of it yet our media is silent on that point. They absolutely will not stop at Israel's borders.
This iteration of Israel simply has to be stopped by the international community, or it will be stopped by its neighbours, at the price of millions of lives.
Unfortunately I envisage a 1945 style international occupation of the smoldering ruins of Israel and Palestine, and the forced de-radicalisation of both population's children over the course of a generation. And that's the most hopeful outcome I can imagine.
Hey,not supporting the mass murder of Palestenians is antisemitic
Im surprised your surprised, isnt the half of it.
@andypeutherer4218 I am surprised the lack of knowledge on history and that some people are trying to to compare Israel to hamas, the PA and the surrounding Arab nations.
Have you ever wondered why there are no jews in the surrounding Arab nations? It's because the surrounding Arab nations violently expelled 900,000 Mizrahi jews during the 1940's through to the 50s. But whatever.
@@evamurray2564And what conclusion are we supposed to draw from that?Muslims commied evil against the Jews and therefore now its the Jews turn to commit the same evil,grow up dude,this "Tit for tat" atitude you people have,it never has and never will solve something like ethnic tensions,this conflict is basically supercharging both anti-semitism and Islamaphobia everywhere,Hamas is growing like some genetically modified virus,all those Islamic terror groups like ISIS that have been reduced to bits are now returning with all their insanity using this terror bombing campaign and IDF war crimes(Don't deny it dude,we have all seen the IDF tiktoks,Israeli isn't hiding anything they are doing) as a propaganda recruiting tool
@@evamurray2564 "They did it to the Jews so Jews must do the same to them",so were we supposed to kill the 70 million Germans once we had defeated and occupied Germany in 1945?And by this logic the entirety of Japanese,Chinese,every race of ethnic Europeans,every race of Africans should all be murdered,are you really telling us that we should kill about 60% of the worlds population?
Dear both, when millions march and governments don't hear, then people feel their vote/voice has no meaning!
You do realise that these "millions" who you speak of are entirely free to donate their own money to an aid organisation in Gaza if they wish to. ? If their cinscience really requires them to do so.
What they can't do is require that other people,who do not wish to give money or aid to Hamas, to similarly give their o we n money.
The decisins of the varios governments reflect these two positions. Those who want can give personally and those who do not want to give are not forced to do so against their beliefs.
If there ar "millikons" then the aniunt of aid will exceed the the amount most natinal govts would othewuse have provided.
Would you like millions to march for deportation?
To the best of my knowledge, the Scottish government is still sending aid to Palestine, as much as it is allowed.
The Rest is Politics is compulsive viewing, informative and interesting, great work Alistair and Rory .
You must be joking…They are doing everything not to be taken to task by the Jewish lobby….don’t want to be labeled anti semitic….The UNRWA story was run to cancel the ICJ report which was largely ignored..
Weak knees , weak willed whining ….. walking across Afghanistan was the best thing Rory ever did ….,the rest is politics aka BS
People aren't voting because of a lack of decent candidates on all sides. The old right/left choices don't apply anymore. Policies don't chime with world events anymore.
I seriously believe there could be a hung Parliament at the next election if enough people decide to vote for anyone except the Red/Blue parties. People don't usually cast protest votes at General Elections, but these are not normal times we're living in.
@@simonfrost7094 IT still results in a government anyway, just a hamstrung one thats even LESS effective than normal.
Don't forget these are people made up of the populous. Put shit in, get shit out.
Vote green to upset the applecart
@@simonfrost7094I suppose you're talking about American politics? Since the channel isn't American I'm just curious.
@@charisma-hornum-friesHung Parliament isn’t a term they would use in the US. The main UK parties use the colours red (Labour) and blue (conservative)
I am so disgusted with the response of my country's (New Zealand) government. We should be ashamed of the decision to withdraw funding from UNRWA.
Wow! Has NZ done this too?
@@sarahpengelly8439 Yep. Our Prime Minister said no further payments would be made until the foreign minister is "satisfied" over accusations about staff involvement in Hamas attacks. It's so pathetic and hypocritical considering the silence on the ICJ ruling.
@@helenm6754 If you're disgusted, your ire should be directed at the UNRWA for having employed terrorists. Not for outside parties to have an issue with the terrorists in their midst.
There's never a justification for genocide and there's never a justification for ignoring (and actually exacerbating) a humanitarian crisis.
It's not difficult Rory - Israel has no intention of stopping - point final
Vs 75 yrs of terror
Exactly. They and we all know Israel wants all the land it can get hold of and doesn’t care who else is on it whether they be Muslim Christian or whatever. Israel
Is an ethno-occupying state ethnically cleansing the locals for 75 years. Anything else is a footnote and that is how the leaders of Israel see this recent war
It is difficult though isn’t it. If it were simple, it would have been solved by now. Why do we have to ignore nuance all the time. Just because we wish it were easy, does not make it so.
Hamas returns the 136 hostages including the 1year old baby and hiab4 year old brother and there will be a cease fire tomorrow. Israel express aim which this podcast totally failed to mention is the return of the hostages. To paraphrase Clinton, IT’S THE HOSTAGES STUPID.
A British, South African Israeli here listening. I found Rory in the last year and have loved listening to a politician who cares.
I have come to expect nothing from politicians.
I live in Israel and am following what is happening in Gaza (independent media). And find myself in a minority that cares. Although I limit visuals, as there is nothing I can do. There essentially is a mandate for this war. And even if things could be different, I honestly do not know how.
How do you fight a military target embedded in a civilian population that supports the armed struggle?
I don't trust Israel to manage this war. The government has done a terrible job returning hostages. And is never going to be able to eliminate Hamas... and yet such an attack as 07.10 also can not be ignored.
Fighting an armed resistence embedded in the civilian population? Its a lose lose situation. Specifically Gazan civikians.
And given the history (naqba), civilans cannot flee. And given that Egypt and Israel won't open the borders, civilians cannot leave. Which seems untenable. Locking civilians in a war zone.
Altogether, I can not think of a more forgotten people than the people of Gaza, despite the international attention and disgust at Israel.
I think most Israelis just do not see the suffering there as a result of Israeli action. But rather a result of Hamas.
It's genuinely shocking and depressing how unaware you are.
@@ukcryptolondonbased2953why don't you just wipe the tears from your face and carry on with your day?
Sickening agenda
Shameful
Paris
Does Alistair Campbell call the decision by the ICJ " remarkable " becuase it’s wrong or its becuase Israel has never had to face any official criticism by the International Judiciary and he’s just surprised ?
Given the lack of criticism of Israel we all know Israel has had carte Blanche to kill indiscriminately
Over the past decades, any criticism of the Israeli government is deemed anti semitic. Yet we might criticize the Indian government without being labeled anti Hindu or the Saudi government without being labeled anti Islam. It’s time this well oiled and funded propaganda machine was brought to account, so the ICJ ruling is a welcome start.
You are completely wrong. It is and has always been perfectly legitimate to criticize the government. What is not legitimate is to deny the state's right to exist, and yet a large percentage of people criticizing Israel are doing just that.
@@TizBaz5you’ve got the zionist boot well and truly in your throat
@@TizBaz5 There's absolutely people that are labeling criticsm of Israel as antisemitic and it's gone way too far. I've often seen it go like this:
is essential for Israels existance -> Critique of Israel on is antisemitic
It's a closed mindeness to alternatives and it sometimes goes to this extreme of israels choices being the only options that arent antisemitic.
@@TizBaz5why is it not right to question the existence of a state that could not itself exist without the ethnic cleansing of an indigenous population? Are we not allowed to question a state whose very existence came into being through an act of colonialism that gave one group of people the land at the expense of another? That is not to say that Jews should not live there. They of course should. But why can we not talk about a state where all people and all religions can live as equals in all aspects of civic life. Is that not entirely consistent with values of freedom, equality, democracy and human rights? That is the opposite of Zionism of course. Are you saying it is not legitimate to question Zionism? If not, why not? And who decided that?
@@TizBaz5 No, he's got a very strong point. Also, it's worth reading Palestinian Walks: Notes on a Vanishing Landscape for more of an idea of how the Israeli government's (illegal) actions have affected Palestinians.
I have never been one to give much time to politics, but you have both changed my habit of a lifetime. The balance that you both strike, keeps me interested. Thanks for the insight
Sometimes there is no centre ground in a conflict Rory, sometimes one side is clearly in the wrong.
This is true. However, in the case of this specific conflict, it is obvious that both sides really are in the wrong. Both sides have killed civilians, which is a war crime.
Could you have a discussion about the Israeli lobby
😂
Would they dare!!!!
hahahahaha they’d never
How Campbell has the brassneck to talk about the Middle East is astounding! Some of us have long memories.
That’s the shocker. The enthralled audience of this pair seem to be blissfully unaware that as Tony Blair’s communication director Campbell was more responsible for current wars on this planet than just about anyone else
It is wrong to withhold support for UNRWA. It is clearly in conflict with the ICJ interim decision and more than that it completely lacks all compassion. It leaves me sad and disgusted.
Shouldn't the surrounding Muslim nations be taking care of the aid issue. Charity is one of the pillars of their religion and Muslims are meant to help each other.
They're closer to the issue and would know what's needed most.
Isn't that the optimal solution? If not why not?
All borders including the one with Egypt are controlled by Israel.
They probably already do. The nations that can at least, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq couldn't help the Palestinians even if they tried, they simply do not have the funds. @@SmilingAzaleaFlower-uh9wi
@@abdihakimjama1556 so... You're telling me the rich Muslim nations in the middle east can't cover cover the entire cost themselves? They need us.... How much aid do they send to Europe? Shall we Google that quickly... Find out...
@@abdihakimjama1556 I'm having trouble finding any examples of middle eastern countries sending aid money to European countries....
Thank you both for keeping me informed in what seems to be an ever more crazy world.
Neither are doing a very good job of that given this comment section.
if this is where you get informed, thats a terrible sign, these guys are basically reading out scripts to tell you what to feel, alistair is a spin doctor, that was his job, to spin the truth and lies together to make a party or country look good while they take part in war crimes. please research the jewish historian, have you seen people refer to the mitchell and webb sketch of the two gestapo officers chatting, and mitchell talks about his uniform and asks webb '' are we the baddies?'' if youre not on that page, you have been misled and being misled.
At some point I am going to have to give up on trying to understand what is going on.
I'm 52 years old and I am realising that I am incapable of keeping up to date with the world.
I give up. I'm just going to watch David Attenborough stuff.
I mean... the only time you need to pay attention is the day before you vote and you can get a decent enough summary within an hour
Im sorry to say the discussion here on the atrocities in Palestine was superficial and devoid of key context. Not a single mention of Israel’s occupation. not a single mention of the status of Gaza - how is it that Israel can cut off water electricity and food to the population?? I guess it’s symbolic of the indifference the UK establishment has to the unspeakable suffering of the people not like ‘us’. Over 10,000 children killed and we are helping them do it! Where is the outrage? Deaf blind and dumb we roll on.
Why in the UK is it necessary to register to vote? Surely all citizens should be automatically registered. Why not?
There are no ID cards or requirement to register an address (driving licences require address and more complicated tax affairs would) so the local government has no register of who lives where unless you are in contact with them in some way. A person with no car and an average job where the employer deals with the tax could live at an unknown location to the government.
Anywhere there's a vote, a register is necessary, otherwise people could potentially abuse the voting system. For example by voting multiple times
Apparently, and we don't hear about it, there are 500,000 in North Gaza are dying from lack of food. From Leila Hatoum" Over HALF A MILLION people in NORTH GAZA have little time to survive.
Famine has already hit them. they're without food or clean water (diseases spread from contaminated water)
The zioisraeli occupation is bombing civilians under siege"
You probably don't hear about it because that number was pulled out of thin air.
@theonlycaulfield your happy yo find out after its allowed to happen and worse then. Sick.
There is over capacity for humanitarian aid processing by both egypt and israel at raffa. Israel opened a second distribution point at K Shalom to assist gaza in distribution difficulties. The problem sits inside gaza. UNRWA and other NGOs cannot process the amount of aid waiting to be distributed and hamas steals aid arriving in gaza. Refer Mr Levy on FOX daily updates. Gaza has been screaming starvation since October, yet videos of captured hamas terrorists showed overweight men. Go figure
The American Republican party will be delighted to learn that famine is doing the work that expensive weapons do, they can happily send more weapons to their proxies in Ukraine.
I think it is well accepted that Hamas continues to provide numbers of deaths and injuries that are not substantiated. It’s all part of their strategy of appealing to a squeamish left leaning western world view.
Defunding UNRWA is a barbaric act
I do despair at the imbalance in the world 3 adults that shows a career in the army and we'll put in harm's way by their government as opposed to 10,000 children in Palestine who did not choose where or when they were born or who they were born to where is there response
10 k who parents put them there.
10,000 children have been killed? Where are you getting that number?
@@deankruse2891 With 26000 killed and about half the population children 10000 children killed looks like a "reasonable" figure.
@@johnclements6614 where are you getting 10,000 children?
@@johnclements6614atlwast 10,000 have been killed
One of the most unbiased, informative podcasts without a political agenda.Keep going guys, we all need to hear these kind of factual, logical, reasoned discussions
Why are there American bases in Jordan/Syria?
When I hear people in Gaza expressing grievances about their treatment by Israelis, I can't help but think about the hostages seized by the Gaza Hamas authorities on October 7th last year. Unfortunately, the current Israeli leadership seems determined to reciprocate the lack of compassion shown by Gaza's Hamas leaders on that day when women and children were slaughtered. . They have no intention of playing nice and are leaning towards eliminating Hamas once and for all. Until the hostages are released, Israel is unlikely to back down. How often are we seeing any mention of the hostages in the news today?
In Israel it's in the news every day
Israel's twenty eyes for an eye response was as obvious as it will be counterproductive.
Every day it is mentioned. Every single day. I'm not in Israel, but Northern Europe. You are also equating the acts of Hamas with the acts of civilians. Which are two totally separate groups. The problem was so eloquently put. They are not getting the Hamas leaders but are cutting swathes through the civilian population. The probability of them getting all of Hamas them is none, zero. So if that's the war aim this will be a never ending war at the current level collateral damage to property/Civilians/UN staff (162 last time I looked)/journalists(93 last time I looked)/aid workers etc
To be fair to the Gazans, Hamas haven't held an election since 2006. Hamas did not carry out those attacks with the consent of the governed.
The difference is that Hamas are a terrorist group, Israel is a sovereign country with legal obligations to behave in an acceptable way. Netanyahu is a neo Nazi thug whose aim is to kill as many Palestinians as he can, and the West just says that's OK. No sane person wants Hamas to gain a victory, but Israel makes it hard to like them.
Some might allegedly ask is Alister “ I take responsibility for the fight dossier the subsequent war in Iraq and the destabilisation of the region which significantly resulted in illegal migration westward” Campbell an appropriate person to talk about Israel?
You need to get Norman Finkelstein on to discuss in depth the situation in Gaza.
I would prefer someone slightly less histrionic.
Totally agree. That's a challenge for the lads.
@@Jacob-df5hr Ye because it's important to be dispassionate when discussing the ongoing death and destruction in Gaza. That's the reasonable response to what we can see via the internet daily.....
Ah, yes. The Token Jew who agrees with you.
@@CallousCarter in such a contested and charged information environment, yes, yes it is.
How odd that the oil-rich states of Arabia don't use their immense wealth to fund the support of the Palestinians...
Speaking of how we treat Palestinians differently as human beings, does anyone in media ever say so easily of Palestinians 'You can understand the trauma' given that the heaps of corpses, wounded, crippled, traumatized and burning with vengeance are undeniably multiples more, from the British Mandate to now?
Unfortunately Gaza's leaders sealed their own fate. As did the older generation by electing them.
You can understand the trauma. That doesn't in any way excuse the actions of October 7. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the whole world blind and toothless.
@@TizBaz5how about the financial support the Israeli government gave Hamas
When Rory said he was trying to understand the Israeli perspective on Palestinian suffering and he mentioned how the news in Israel doesnt show it and that could be why they are apathetic about it- it reminded me of when people were trying to understand why Brits voted for Brexit. Rather than actually putting yourself in their shoes and trying to understand their feelings you immediately go to 'they are being misled' 'they are uninformed/ignorant' it really just comes across as arrogant.
Backing theocratic extremists in Israel is not in UK’s interests.
Wonderful video. Learning so much. Thank you. Keep up the good work guys
The mere thought of Boris Johnson hiding from Piers Morgan and Susannah Reid in a fridge. The closest he ever got to 'cold war' politics.
Our Govts are complicit in the mass starvation of a population.
And that weasel starmer justifies ut
The hesitation by the UK, Germany and the US over the "genocide" case at the ICJ might have something to do with the links between South Africa and Iran
South Africa brought the case they did not make the judgement. The United Nations International Court of Justice has eminent judges from and has the job of upholding International Law. Their judgements are independent of individual nations and should be taken seriously. It was them, not South Africa or Iran who said the case for genocide is plausible. The ICJ did not throw out the case as Israel wished and suggested they had a case to answer.
If it is, it shouldn't be. It doesn't matter who brought the case, only what the judges say.
Those countries that have 'paused' their UNRWA contributions show they have little humanity for anyone. On the word of the Israel government (the day after the I.C.J ruling) concerning allegations about a small number of UNRWA workers the US was very quick to be their henchmen, quickly followed by their lackey countries. Austria, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Romania, Sweden, USA, Iceland, UK, Japan and Australia. These countries are imposing collective punishment on a civilian population which is on the verge of extinction. We in Ireland are totally ashamed of our European neighbours in particular. What are they thinking of? Are they all that much in hock to the US$?
I would hope that when tragedy stricks in their country (as it surely will someday) they will ponder what additional misery they have inflicted on those poor souls in Gaza. Shame on you all.
Did you see what UNRWA is teaching in schools?.They teach Mein Kampf and train children to shoot Kalachnikovs. I am not willing to sponsor it wit my tax money.
Stop lying. The decisions of those countries that you are complaining of is not "collective punishment".
A decision by a nation state to give money that it has taken from its own citizens to people who do not live in that nation state is entirely discretionary.
The recipients of such aid do not have a legal entitlement to be paid that aid, and the donor nation can turn ofv the tap at any time for any reason.
When this legal reality is understood, then little or no weight should be given to any drcision to cut aid funding.
Collective punishment involves te taking an unlawful act againnst a group of people.. As shown above the fecisions are not unlawful and therefore can not be colective punishment.
If you are concenef about rectifying collective punishment, we can start with Tunisia and Libya unlawfully expelling their entire Jewish popuations, .
Or Turkey that appproriated the Hagia Sophia cathedral and rxently converted it into a mosque as a punishment to the few remaining Christians who rmain in Turkey.
Why didn't you talk about Cameron's suggestion of UK recognising Palestine? That would definitely steal a lot of labour votes
it might work as a vote getter, it doesn't as a meaningful policy
@@belindathorne9784 why not
@@whitewittock Because they're offering it now that it is practically impossible, given that Gaza is rubble and the WB is Swiss cheese. Halting weapons shipments and pushing for sanctions would be more meaningful.
Bringing Cameron back is turning into the stealth populist move by the conservatives. Much more relatable than Starmer despite the corruption
30:40 We should be honest and as a result we should crack on and start rebuilding the military.
I'm an aerospace engineering student its shocking how poorly defence companies perform and particularly there are huge problems with competency in regular or routine work and how these contracts should be structured. The government should be regularly commissioning protype equipment and also revisions of legacy equipment to make them cheaper/more up to date/futureproofing for use in a reserve role.
But currently Britain doesn't have a standalone defence company of any kind which should also be of concern, its also the case that most european countries don't have a standalone defence company, which is partly why much of the defence equipment is starting to become homogenous. Despite differing requirements.
I think the key point of any kind if anyone actually reads this is that there is this strong idea that countries like russia are relying on the fruits of an empire that has since gone, but there is not this idea in the west. Constantly people talk of american superiority but in reality this doesn't go anywhere near as far as people think because of the cost of it. Apart form the F-35, which is exceptionally costly to run, for most countries the bulk of their equipment is at minimum 20 years old and in particular the companies and even the plants they were built by and in no longer exist.
Excellent and thoughtful comment. Thank you. I hope others read it and take heed. We are sleepwalking into an increasingly dangerous situation, and need to wake up and realise how vulnerable western society is. Years ago my normally placid father told his four young boys that we were ‘very lucky to grow up in a time of relative peace.’ I thought that Dad, who was born in Liverpool in 1929, was being a bit silly. I don’t think that now.
I guess most countries in Europe haven't invested in their military for the last 20 years because they felt the end of the Cold War meant they could and that the USA, in it's self-appointed role of global and European policeman would come to the rescue if things got really bad again. So they spent the 'peace dividend' on other things and allowed the infrastructure of procuring, researching and developing military hardware to fall away.
The UK MoD doesn't have the money, only because we choose not to spend what we need. We still spend less than 2% od GDP. We are in the same situation as the 1930s, of wishful thinking that will cost us our liberty and soverignty if we don't get sane in time.
It happens often, that in a war zone the humanitarian relief is being captured by a war party, that then “helps” by distributing the help only to its own supporters, while making the helpers bad…its a 10 to 20y old dispute and dilemma, that many say that help for Gaza lands too often in the wrong hands. This last news about the UN-Gaza mission is just the last push that toppled the trust in this organization. It’s especially controversial in Germany.
Do you or have you seen any proof for this allegation?
@@Hesham_MK it’s a permanent discussion in Germany and other EU countries each time rockets we’re flying from Gaza or there were more organized attacks and grab of prisoners etc. Each time there was the question how things got into Gaza, with what was it payed and why construction materials, bought for houses and other infrastructure, land in smuggling tunnels to Egipt, Israel and so on. And this happened many times in the past 20-30y.
If You didn’t hear about such things I can’t help you.
@@Hesham_MK no allegation. Most recent for me seen in official news (no yt or TikTok): Few days ago interview with a German UN worker that was stationed in Gaza. He stated that it is not easy to distribute the humanitarian help, so they had to use the Hamas organization. But after complaining that not enough reached the people it was supposed to reach, he got some warnings that Hamas was unhappy with his attitude and the UN decided to take him out and give him another job.
@@micumatrix This is the problem it takes 1 uncorroborated allegation from the opponent to withdraw funding and not just 1 country but the usual suspects while the ICJ orders Israel to take measures (you know them) to prevent genocide the USA and European backers fast track arming Israel. You tell me what this is called?
to say this is a 10 to 20 year long dispute, surely you know thats simply untrue? hamas is effectively the government in gaza, it admisters health, infrastructure and all the things associated with governance, unrwa funds everything. so to imagine there is no overlap or corruption or infiltration would be niave. i would even bet mossad and the cia have operatives in both hamas and unrwa, thats just how these agnecies work. so, all that said, its clear you have a bias against anything from one side. i would question if that bias is completely undermining any real logic? i would bet money that people in germany are as against zionism as the rest of the world, it is only politicians who seem to think israel can do no wrong. so you are either a politician, or a german person who is sick of seeing muslims in your country. i understand. i hope we can find a way to make everybody happy. the un for all its many many flaws and corruptions is all we have, toppling it would be inhumane, fixing it? i notice that isnt on your radar, strange. you wouldnt call for firing all the police officers because you found 12 criminal ones. and the un is much more important than the police by a factor of billions.
Shame on all who withdrew support.
During the war on terror there wasn't too much coverage of individuals killed by coalition forces, was there guys?
Well said.
Thanks for posting.
Australians ALL VOTE .
Wakey wakey
I feel we were somewhat bullied to speak out against the killing of so many people....
I meant, bullied against speaking out....
36m in Alistair Campbell says he feels uneasy about the different standards the media have when displaying Israeli.v Palestinian casualties. A perfect example of English understatement. It's in their DNA! ....and I love this podcast...
Aid funding was withdrawn as a warning to the ICJ.
It was withdrawn because UNRWA had members who participated in Oct 7th massacre.
ICJ is a court dummy.
great pod just wish you could master the volume up a bit!
I've been meaning to say the same about the volume.
We have people in the UK getting help from the red cross. This is shocking in the 6th richest country on earth. This is what the Tories have done.
Is it "wise" for the USA to litter its troops across the Middle East given local feelings toward Washington?
The US troops currently in Syria are there ILLEGALLY! Washington has a very selective "respect" for international sovereignty.
Rory. You are brilliant, but l don’t understand how u can approve of hunting. Think about it. An animal is torn to pieces for the amusement of the riders! It’s barbaric!
Oh, please interview, Pekka Haavisto, whether or not he wins (hoping so)! The world needs more peace negotiators are leaders.
Why are taxpayers paying for them. People can donate if they want. Don't tax me for it.
One question; what exactly are the Americans up to in Jordan/Syria and are they welcome?
I am extremely disappointed by this discussion between the two of you. (very unusual)
But not once did either of you mention any history of the Palestinian/ Israel confict. Neither did you mention talking to any Palestinians recently & getting a perspective from them.
The issue of occupation, stealing land, erasing villages & dehumanisation by the armed forces & settlers for decades was totally & inexplicably absent.
The despicable attack by Hamas & the situation in Gaza CANNOT be discussed even briefly without some reference to the crimes above.
I now find myself checking Ha'aretz & one of its long established journalists Gideon Levy for a true interpretation of what is happening.
They have discussed all this and more in previous podcasts. They can't keep iterating the same things. Go back & listen.
They assume ppl are following these podcasts and are keeping up
Alistair confuses Europe with the EU. The UK is still part of Europe, didn't ya know.
I may be particularly ill informed but we've had wall to wall coverage of the tragedy of the three US military personnel deaths. Nowhere in the media have I seen/heard of the number of deaths, military or civilian, caused by the numerous & comparatively huge US & UK airstrikes. Why not?
What's going to sink Labour: blank cheque for Israel, backing off green transition, envy politics (taxing independent schools).
If You listen to german podcasts, do You know “Sicherheitshalber”? Won last year highest price given by journalists in Germany. Thomas Wiegold, Carlo Masala etc. I could swear I heard them saying the 40% spending on military by Russia is not correct…
Was the odious Johnson not "humorously" and "self-deprecatingly" impersonating the Clive Dunn character in Dad's Army rather than offering himself as a corporal with any seriousness.
Populism is just another word for politics.
More specifically, a form of politics Stewart and Campbell don’t agree with.
It's an arbitrary label. If you like a politician, you label them as popular. If you dislike a politician, you label them as populist. How does anyone get elected if their policies aren't popular?
Populism: democracy you don’t like 😂😂
populism has come to mean, gathering all the stupid knee jerk voters with strange combos like racists along with religous along with elitists who just want power. religous will get in bed with racists if it means outlawing abortion, racists will get in bed with elitists who are just playing them for power. its not a new formula for winning votes.
As usual a great discussion! What about one on healthy eating! Shd certain foods be banned as is advertising cigarettes. Also we have a dreadful obesity problem causing a fortune on the.N.H.S.
We live in dangerous times.
Try telling each side in a conflict such as this to treat each other as human beings and see how far you get.
It's best to try and try again. Otherwise, you get the mainstream American media, which is a cynical parody of Free-Speech.
That's applicable to those doing the fighting. Politicians know better. They weaponise language to get others to do their bidding.
@@dh1380 That's the difficulty. Indoctrination into any political or religious system boxes the victims into a restricted linguistic mindset. Both politicians and priests perpetuate this language blindness and negatively profile as 'other' and 'evil' any attempts to penetrate it. Politicians and priests act as mesmerists that are parasitical upon their victim's minds to the point when they can drive them about to do any of their bidding that they so choose.
Slight problem. One side thinks the bible has gifted them the land the other side is living on and we are arming the ones with the religious texts. How can you think the world is so simple?
@@ufoc700Don’t Muslims hold that same belief?
28:26 thank you for understanding
And yes I am sorry about every civilian killed there
Very true by Rory stewart. Aljazeera shows the suffering that is taking place in Gaza and CNN and some global north news media shows less atrocities in gaza. I think there is a certain narrative about the situation in gaza from this media channels.
The Integrated Food Security and Nutrition Phase Classification (IPC) has confirmed that the entire population of Gaza - about 2.2 million people - is facing high levels of acute food insecurity or worse, with one in four households facing catastrophic conditions." CNN
The stats on polling fascinates me because it reflects me a lot. I personally appreciate labour party chatter in the lead up to the election, but I'm not confident in them enough to vote for them because of some outrageous policies that overshadow everything good
Nevermind. I emailed my labour candidate after I missed a door knock from his campaigner.
He seemed completely happy with the current uncontrolled immigration and more importantly doesn't seem to believe there is a problem with integration.
He also came across very Kier centric and waiting power.
He also appeared to claim that breaching the equality act is ok in the name of free speech.
Needless to say our thoughts didn't align and this *was* the closest I've ever been to supporting Labour.
Fascinating
I can't believe that I'm actually enjoying Campbell's input despite all the stuff he did re Iraq. I'm willing to chalk all that up to him just being a political operative at the time so I can rationalise being a subscriber to myself. 🤦♂
Rory the Prime Minster we never had 😔
Thank god
We mow have more Air Cadets than personnel in the RAF!
Johnson can't sign up, he's far beyond the upper age limit. In any case he decreased the size of the army in the first place.
You guys mentioned in a recent pod how supportive Jphnson has been on Ukraine, but let us not forget that he allowed several Russian billionaires to leave with their fortunes before he implemented meaningful sanctions.
Vladimir Putin was ready to negotiate peace on terms that were far more favourable to Ukraine after his advance on Kiev failed than anything they're likely to get now and Boris Johnson flew out to Kiev to personally prevent that by telling Zelensky that the UK and US would not back the agreement.
Now over hundred thousand more Ukrainians are dead and the Russians are slowly advancing across the front. Is what he did support or sabotage?
Johnson was supportive of Ukraine while he was PM, but even that seems to be breaking. Since leaving office he seems to have been cosying up to US Republicans who are emphatically *not* supportive of Ukraine.
Viewers should check out Israel Hayom, Meet the 15-year-old whose Oct. 7 story transformed Israeli hasbara. It is a fascinating article with real life experiences.
Why does this conversation make Rory so uncomfortable? Unless he’s genuinely uncomfortable due to a cycling injury 😳
He's a diplomat by nature. He's naturally being very cautious over just about the most radioactive issue in the world.
What do you think of Lex Fridman interview with Omar Suleiman.
Most want peace and ceasefires, but how with so much polarisation?
6:20 iran has less influence over the so called proxies, than the US has over Ukraine, or indeed even the US has over the UK?
I think that Israeli public opinion can be understood in the context of their being placed in a Pearl Harbor-ish situation; the response is to apply all the force possible until the enemy is destroyed. In the US case, this was largely accompanied by an attitude that the niceties be damned, while Israel does actually appear to be continuing certain practices that are tactically more costly when it comes to close combat situations, rather than the indiscriminate application of HE. In the US case, we did very deliberately apply incendiaries and nukes once we decided that HE was insufficiently expeditious.
The argument that Israel is being subjected to a different set of standards in international law is legitimate. As you noted, ICJ has not bothered to go after certain egregious situations because the offenders in those cases view the ICJ as easily ignored air guitar jurisprudence, but happily pursued a case against Israel thinking that the nature of the Israeli state could mean that Israel might choose to pay them some mind.
With respect to UNWRA, it seems that several states have concluded that UNWRA is as much an organ of Hamas as it is the UN.
This "dare game" tough bully boys are playing has to be stopped!
Why is it that Palestinian lives are not important compared to Israeli lives, it is pure fascism, why don't you say exactly what it is. Also everybody knows that Israel just want to get rid of Palestinians in any way they can, so they can have all the land. Why don't you mention the gas reserves off Gaza that belongs to the Palestinians but Israel won't let them have access to.
So what u chaps are saying is that kids in Gaza are having limbs amputated without anaesthetic because Netanyahu doesn't want to lose his job. What an effing monster.
Get Jared Kushner on this show. Definitely need to hear his opinion on the Middle East.
Jared's a crooked business con-man. His only claim to fame was wheedling his way to $2.5 billion in Saudi Money. It helped that his was father-in-law was the American president.
Good one
Rory, please, please join the Labour Party. The Labour Party is a broad church to.
"Unfortunate" Alistair, that was your thought about the UK ceasing to fund the only humanitarian group providing schools, health and other vital services in Palestine, at a time when aid is systematically held up and denied entry by Israel as Palestinians are being slaughtered, starved, dieing from injuries because the 2500 beds cant cope with the 60,000 injured? "Unfortunate"? Good grief man, this conversation is apalling as you both skirt around pretending to discuss the hard stuff going on in the ME.
imagine if there were Islamic bases in the US Does anybody believe that the US would not attack such bases on their territory.
Why are we paying Anything to UNWRA , budget $1.2 B a year when the Saudis are paying Ronaldo $200m surely charity starts at home
2
Palestinians and Saudi s are different people different countries. Do you think the U.K. should be responsible for the French homeless?
@@lisaglaze250 yes I do think that the UK should support the French more in similar circumstances than the Saudis, it would be strange to me if those who are hugely rich and in the same region etc etc didn't offer most help
Absolutely hilarious to have an actual war criminal and a failed politician to give their advice on right and wrong
War is the continuation of politics by other means. It has been nearly 20 years since the Second Lebanon War and since then diplomacy under many differerent administrations failed, so now it will be war until the situation stabilises again. We will just have to see what the political situation is when the dust clears.
Any update on Dr.Kelly?
All the politics are pointless - no one wants to end this
Beautiful
Right, but they are also closely tied to terrorism. What to do? What to do?
How sad. Theses seasoned commentators talk about genocide with a sense of quiet resignation and sadness.
No anger. No condemnation of cutting off aid to Palestinians a day after ICJ report ( yes aid to civilians not bombs for IDF )
No recognition that this is really about ethic cleansing and genocide
Shameful crocodile tears
Aussie (largely) right wing meja slam Albo for breaking a "promise" - as though no liberal(conservative) poitician has ever done so.... I know different! And without the beneifits to the hoi polloi of Albo's rejigged cuts......
The ICJ simply restated the ground rules, obey the Law, as a sop to the Shia. However, Israel's reacted badly to that, given the UN did nothing for decades, leading to the second Shoah. Simply bleating piously isn't how to lead.
You know what's not been said, Rori, about Pakistan, and the specific references to the Taliban and ISI, better viewed as the Pashtun clan.
Around 10y Iran had a more moderate president and all his good work with western diplomats was permanently torpedoed by this paramilitary group (revolutionary guards?), that practically has a parallel order with own army, factories etc.(Rohani, that was forbidden now to join the group that decides the next president or mullah?)
They are the main guys in Iraq and Syria fighting ISIS, US, Israel and they never wanted freedom. If Iran can’t get a hold of them they are practically the biggest terrorist organization threatening Iran, Israel and the whole peace in the region.
Rory is really obsessed with Pakistan's relations with the Taliban, he clearly seems to have been traumatised.
It's a relationship blown out of proportions, and he can't seem to be able to let go.
UNRWA's message to the Palestinians? You can choose war over peace and still expect to get everything you want.
Bottom Line: You cannot call yourself 'oppressed' if you constantly refuse any solution for peace (that doesn't include the eradication of the other side).
> You can choose war over peace and still expect to get everything you want.
Worked for Israel, didn't it?
About the talking to your enemies part, as an Israeli I can tell you that the public here feels like we tried to talk to our enemies, and granted them lands (through the Oslo agreements and Gaza). The result was a Gaza dominated by Hamas, the only more terrorist organization than Fatah
they were not yours to 'grant them' - shame on you for supporting this
@officialsimonharris you are the type of person it would be useless to negotiate with.
It's not your land.
You stole it.
@@isabellevince5174 The people living on the land didn't own it either. The last nation state to really officially incorporate the Palestinian territories was the Ottoman empire. Both the Egyptian and the Jordanian kept the land separate from their countries main territory when they controlled Gaza and the West Bank respectively. When they Brits administered it via the mandate, they didn't own it either and during that time, no-one had a clear contract to eventually own the land. There only existed ambiguous intentions set out for the mandate. It was during that time of ambiguity that Israel declared itself a state.
@isabellevince5174
That is not correct.
However, the continued settling of the West Bank is stealing.
The origins of the State are not the same as what is going on now. It went to the UN for an International judgement. Also much of the land was bought from the Arab population who did not at that time call themselves Palestinians.