The Ford With TWO Front Axles
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Steve examines the remains of a final-cycle 1966 Ford F100 step-side pickup with Haltenberger steering architecture. Halten-what? Check out the video to see why Haltenberger steering doesn’t have an idler arm. And no, you can’t get fries and a shake with that.
It’s a pleasure attending your lectures. You are a top notch teacher. Thank you very much.
My first truck was the 1966 F250 with a 352 engine and 4-speed transmission. I've always loved that year truck
Fords were and always will be the best trucks on the road !!!
Great video’s and information Steve I really enjoy your knowledge
I like these videos so much. Very informative stuff for car and truck nerds as myself. I hope you get well soon.
Twin Traction Beam (TTB) debuted in 1980 with the introduction of the new seventh generation truck, now referred to as the Bullnose. The previous 4x4 trucks and Broncos were all live front axle designs.
I had a 80 with it and had a few late 70's 4x4 to.
I like the 400 and c6 in all of them. But man I couldn't not keep the 80 front-end aligned . I even went to one of the places that said there alignement would work or they would redo it. I think they did it like 15 times before they refused.
It might have been the 38 ground hoggs.
But the sold axle ones handled 35-40 in with no problems.
Twin I beam isn't ttb all 100 and 150 series trucks from 65-80 had split I beams if they were 2wd, 4wd had a solid axle all 250 up trucks 2wd or 4wd had solid / live axles front and rear. Solid beam for 2wd live solid for 4wd.
The TTB set-up with 4wd for all 150 and light duty 250 trucks was a pita to keep aligned as the guy above mentioned, especially if you increased tire size above 255/70r16 or 30/31" 10.50 r15 or r16 you could squeeze 33 10.50 r15/16 inside the fenders but your ttb would be out of camber/caster and once fixed would walk it's way out even with mild a/t M/t tires. The more you know
The TTB, the answer to the question nobody ever asked.
Another great video professor Steve get well soon we miss you out here
We're all pulling for you Steve. Hope to see you soon
My first vehicle was a '64 Ford F100 at 14 years old. 292 Y block V8, 3 speed column, manual steer and brakes. Last year for the straight axle with kingpins. White spoke wheels, 70's in front, 60's in rear. 2 tone custom paint and interior and of course, an 8 track from Radio Shack. Hauling ass around the corners in the mountains I could place the inside front tire on the double yellow or the white stripes and with that straight axle the inside tire would SCREAM for mercy.
Twin I beam was an attempt at independent front suspension.
The early 80’s 4x4 Broncos and trucks had a twin I beam set up. It was kinda flimsy.
Ihave a ‘75 F-350 2wheel drive dump truck that my late uncle left me. I was my grandfather’s he bought new.
Truck only has 29K miles on it.
Took my driver's test in my dad's 1966 f 100 , no power steering,bias ply tires, it was a struggle, but the state cop, that's who gave tests way back then, was sympathetic, gave me a couple of hints, and passed me the first time. My dad was sure I wasn't going to pass. It was the most nervous I've ever been.
I took my drivers test in a 57 Mercury with no power steering/brakes or AC!!
My Father said that stuff was just something to break!! I too had some slack from the tester!! Later when radial tires came out I put them on my 56 Ford and it became a BEAST to steer-especially in a slow curve although they did improve handling.
Don’t get in a tight place!!😦😬🙈
@@ludicrous7044 yep you are right putting radials on a car not set up for them could be dangerous. Also, I had a 67 gtx with radials and I wanted red lines on it, but at that time they only came in bias, did it anyway ,looked great, drove like crap. Expensive lesson learned. But they did help sell the car.
TIB was in compact Ford trucks as well. I bought a new 87 Ranger with twin I beams and drove it every day and all over the country for almost 34 years. The ECM finally went bad so I sold it to a former co worker cheap and got my 73 C30
Had a 61 and replacing the plastic king pin bushings was a real pain.
Grandpa had a white 65 stepside with a 352 3 on the tree. Chrome grill and bumpers. He promised me he would give it to me when i got my license in 1979. But a neighbor made him an offer he couldn't refuse and he sold it. And about 2 weeks later he got drunk and rolled it. Kept driving it with the roof all smashed in. And i had to watch him come by every day driving it. Broke my heart. I'm still mad.
Hi Steve, Thanks for all the hard work and research that You put in to all these videos. Also thanks to You and Shane for all the filming out in the wrecking Yard. You must have a Giant Magazine collection, You always seem to find out some stories and info in a magazine, even if it was not a Photo car on the cover or even the main stories. I thank You a lot for showing them to us. Please don't keep drawing on the pages with a pen or Sharpie, just so it makes it a littlie easier for us to see the story. They are Your magazines that have taken You a lifetime to collect and I can not believe You actually draw on them. Your little yellow Post-It notes are enough for us to see. Cheers Mark.
Hi Mark, the "desecration" of the pages is to make certain I can zero in on the exact info I'm hoping to share. It also helps Super Shane to zero in as well. I know we were told "never write in books" as kids in school but that went out the window when we were issued Hi-Liters to apply translucent ink shading to important passages. Also, i have multiple copies of most of my "props" so if I want a pristine example, I have it (I've been collecting / hoarding for 45 years...I don't know why). Also, there may come a time when I RAFFLE / AWARD these paper items to viewers. In that situation, it'll VERIFY that the item received is THE ONE used in the video. So I don't see the writing as a loss. Plus I never throw them out, the ink merely adds personalization to items I cherish and refer to regularly. I say all of this to explain that I understand your reaction, but rest assured there are un-marked extras in my stash if I need to have one. THANKS for writing, Steve Magnante
@Steve Magnante , Thanks for the reply, Steve. Loving the content. Thanks again. Cheers, Mark.
@@SteveMagnante I used to buy old national geographic books just to look at the car ads, so you know i love this channel!
@@MicroSoftner You DID NOT! You read them to have a look at some native boobies like the rest of us as kids... 😂🤦🤣
My neighbors dad bought a new 3/4 ton with a 390, 4 speed.1974, Man we beat the hell out of that thing! Rebuilt and replaced those beams 4 or 5 times in just a few years. His dad traded it off because he thought ibeams were crap. He just didnt know what they went through between farming, hunting and partying!
My father had 1980 and it wore through tires and many death wobbles. But the 300 six had so much torque.
Twin i beams still make my 2014 e250 comfy to drive long distances.
I had one of these trucks!
Thanks
"Twenty years ago today, the kids had the Beaver Fever, but it twasn't what you have here today. This is madness!" - Bet nobody will get that movie quote.
Those column shifts had a loooong throw.
I been daily driving a 1966 f250 for 3 years
Charles Bronson and Mr Majestic commericials is what i remember!!!!
Twin I-beam lives on to this day in current 2wd super duty trucks. Didn't know it dated back that far, 60 year old suspension tech. Pretty cool.
Yea I was pretty shocked to learn they still use it. I still see lots of Econoline vans running around with it. It's to funny to see the completly awful camber curve when they hit bumps. Turns out it was a great design for dessert pre runners but awful for a street driven vehicle.
@@geoffmooregm Not awful, just different. But most importantly way more durable than control arms and on 4x4s, CV axles up front. And that is why they still use it 60 years later. And on a bigger scale same goes for the old Straight I beam. Big trucks still use it because you really just have to try incredibly hard to break one.
@@geoffmooregm I was shocked at the 2016 f250 4wd we got new.
A real 4wd lever on the floor ,rubber floor ,and you actually have to get out and lock the manual hubs.
Sort of a real work truck, but I don't trust it now that recently it killed an ecm at 135k.
Hoping to see you at Collector car Live at The Big E later this month.
I see that 1st gen barracuda behind you. It would be nice if you featured that car.
61-66. 61 came as a uni body or with the wrong bed shared with 57-60 and also used up to 66 on factory 4x4 and f350. 64 -66 for the style side bed maybe a handful of 63 most 63 f100-f250 came uni or step side.
It's too bad that truck is so far gone, frame looked compromised with rust even but that was a great old truck
You said that from 1961 to 1980, the VIN didn't ID the year model. Wasn't aware, but that could explain why I've seen several ads for mid-1960s F-100 that clearly misidentified the year model. Sometimes the seller would insist that the (incorrect) year was on the title.
These could develop an amazing wobble at about 45 mph.
Radius arms...right?
I had a 65 F250 and a 66 F100 and both had over 200k miles on them, and neither ever gave any hint of a wobble or shimmy. Someone must have greased the front end regularly.
If you wobble a twin I beam suspension, you're doing something wrong.
@@coolbreeze5561 we’ll, I was only 17 last time I experienced it, so you are probably right.
I've driven twin I beams for 34 years on the farm. Absolutely nothing wrong with them. Nearly indescribable, ride is reasonable, handling is acceptable, and load capacity is great.
Twin traction beam was first seen in 1980 model year 4x4s
And then there were those famous King Pins on Ford pick ups that we learned to love so much . GM had a much better front end design with the long and short control arm suspension
Steve, I really appreciate what you do, it brings me a smile every morning, thanks for doing it.
In those days pickups normally came without rear bumpers. Dealers installed them routinely. My hometown had a welder/blacksmith who made a lot of the bumpers in that area. They were sturdy enough to serve as dozer blades for a small tractor.
The Ranger I had was a leftover from a fleet sale . It had a bumper on it but normally wouldn’t. At the end of ‘86 Lakewood (CO) Fordland had two white with 2.3 and 5speed OD. I got the one with blue interior, the other had red inside. Both went for $6688 and N/C for the bumpers
And the local repair shop will send you away if you asked for a front end alignment. Luckily for me there was a truck repair shop in the next town who knew how to bend an axle.
My second and third gen "E" series vans had the twin I beam. Other than king pin replacement on the second gens, they all held up very well and had good road manners.
No, plenty of online resources to determine the production sequence and how it falls into the model year. It's more likely you'd find that in the parts catalog versus the service/shop manual. Most Ford parts catalogs have a VIN and trim tag decoder in them and that's where most online resources got their information.
Yes, the trim tag and VIN tell it all, so as we always say, "When we get the VIN, we win".
F10 for F100 2WD, B for 300 CID straight six with one barrel, L for Michigan Truck assembly, and the rest is the production sequence lining up with June 1966 production, making it a 1966 model year truck. The Michigan Truck plant still operates today and is known as Michigan Assembly and is located in Wayne, MI next to the Wayne stamping plant.
When you get the tag, you can brag: 129 is the truck's wheelbase in inches (something still on door jamb tags on Ford trucks even today), J for Rangoon Red exterior paint, N for Red Crush Vinyl and Red Cody plastic interior trim, 81 for conventional cab, C for three speed manual light duty transmission, Ford produced, 08 for rear axle which is a 3.50:1 non-locking unit, Ford produced, 5000 is the maximum Gross Vehicle Weight Rating in pounds, 150 is the rated horsepower at 3600 RPM, and 11 is the Boston, MA sales district.
Steve, This is a reminder that cars used to be large and pickups used to be sanely sized. This F100 looks like a lightweight compared to today's Ranger let alone the F150.
Yeah, today's Ranger looks the same size as full size pick ups did 20-25 years ago, I don't know if styling is playing an optical illusion on me and certainly the raised suspension, but that's what I always thought.
@@bobhill3941 Your right the styling does trick your eyes into thinking things are smaller. For example in the early 2000's my cousin had a 63 Mercury Monterey 4 door and a 91 Pontiac Bonneville 4 door keep in mind the Bonneville isn't a full size car but if you park them next to each the Mercury was only a foot or two longer
@@purpurahaze9179 Yes, the styling was well executed to trick the eye!
The fact some of large old cars are lighter than some of the smaller modern cars. For example, the 1968 Chevy Malibu sedan with V-8 roughly the size of a 2012 Ford Crown Victoria, but weight lighter than 2010 Honda accord V-6 Sedan.
Cool seeing that old truck's suspension setup. That suspension is the father of the twin traction beam that is on my 1988 Ford F250 diesel..
I remember Charles Bronson beat the crap out of one in a movie, and ford made a commercial using clips from the movie.
Excellent movie...Mr Majestyk...he beat the heck out of that Ford going over those hills....and kicked azz like only Bronson could do!
That was a '67-'69 Bumpside with the all-metal grill. It is also said that after filming, that truck was taken by the studio to a car lot and sold off into normal private use. I guess that's where the trail went cold.
The '66's generation is called the Slickside.
A few mechanics killed from placing jack stands under twin I beams. Theye'd slide right off the jack stands.
I meant to say shifter on the dash
I was looking at the Valiant/Baracuda next to it and missed the whole thing. 😅
Nice vid with loads of info/history!!!
Gotta' love the "Fever" 👍 🙂 🤜🤛
That twin I beam is the worst ever. I had an 87 f150 4x4 I used for plowing snow could not hold an alignment or keep tires on the thing. So I took matters in my own hands and got axles from a 79 f150. They went in with little modification drove that truck for 393000 before the frame rotted out. The most trouble free vehicle I ever owned.
Steve, Almost positive that 1980 was the first year for "traction Beam" suspension on 1/2 ton pickups and Broncos. 1979 = Dana 44 live axles.
That style was 61-66, not 58-66.
57-60 was the previous body style. 57-64 shared the the same chassis.
Every video is a learning experience!! Thanks for all you do Steve!! I/we appreciate all the time and resources you put into each one of these!!
Never could figure out why most trucks came with an open differential.
Thanks 👍
Me neither
It’s less to manufacture!!
I had a 56 Ford I wanted to drag race it would spin one tire and I would lose!!
A friend at HS said to weld up the spider gear but about once a week I would need to jack it up and let the axle “unwind!”😦😬
The axle would break from twisting in a turn because of uneven speed!! It also made the front tires work harder. I would beat a stock differential every time!! It was illegal but nobody seemed to notice!😁
My Uncle was working on a military 6x on a lift. When he raised it off the floor it jumped over the rack and smacked the back wall!
The owner did not disengage the differential and the axles unwound and push the truck!!
It says caution on the dash and to forget to pull the brake lever!! It fortunate no no body was hurt!!⛑The owner fixed the damage!
I didn’t think the Twin I beam suspension was available on 4x4 till the early 80s?
I had a 66 who's floor and cab mounts were rusted out. I cut a floor out of a 79, and welded right in.
Same basic floor until 79…. Exact same floor until 65-72 73-79, Fords used the inside of the bed skins until 96 !
@@WildBillFlysRC There were changes in frame width, so there can be differences in the bed-mounting holes, especially if you're dealing with a High Boy ('67-'77 F250 4WD) And you can see how a Bumpside '67-'72 uses the older Slickside backlite. Then the Dentside '73-'79 uses a new backlite, but the same windshield as the Bumpsides. Then the Bullnose '80-'96 got a new windshield, but carried on with the Dentside's backlite - along with the floor and back wall of the bed.
I wonder if manufacturers still have the year of the vehicle etched into the taillights?
Definitely one of my favorite trucks I actually own 3 of them two are tow trucks ones a pickup all drivers the TTB in the 4wheel drive stuff gets a lot of hate but if set up correctly they ride and work very well . I actually doing to up grades to one now and sharing on my channel
I like em too, got two of em as well the thing is they tend to be wobbly steering, other than that solid trucks. The only thing I hate is trying to lift them for tire changes
Like that gas tank inside the cab behind the seat?
The f series introduced in 1957 remained until 1960
I would love to be friends with Steve . The conversations we would have....
I had a 1985 F 150 with the twin I beam. Suspension was great but what i preferred was the great turning radius the combination of beams and steering linkage provided.
My dad had a 1965 F100 1/2 ton that was a service vehicle from a garage with all the company's name written on it. It was in mint condition, chrome everywhere. I remember the frame had rot thru.
My dad said that they never could be aligned properly.
Depending on the area, might have been used as a plow truck and that caused the rust in the frame.
@@googleusergp No, it was a 2wd and it's in Massachusetts, Salt covered roads.
@@stephenyoutubin4476 That will do it.
I had a 1990 Ranger XLT 4X4 with a live version of that front suspension. I think they called it Tein Traction beam.. Also with the electronic switch for 4x4 but with locking hubs. The body rusted out,but it still ran when I got rid of it. It was a 4.0 L.
Back in the 70’s I drove a 1970 Ford cargo van for my job. After driving it for a while I told my new boss that the truck pulled to the right. They sent it into the shop and believe it or not one of the beams was bent. The mechanic said he had never seen one do that before. This was in 1973.
Would that be a '64-'65 Barracuda fastback in the background at 2:00?
This pickup truck looks way better than BackyardAlaska’s. And he drives his truck.
129" wheel base would make it a long bed.
Ahhh, Twin I Beam… So that’s what all the rage has been about. 👍
Who else remembers checking the gas level with a broken off broom handle when the gauge was broke 😂.
Barracuda lingering in background .
Hey Steve! I had a 1977 and a 79 F-150 both with the twin I beam axle. I remember a few times when I had stone in the 77 the front tires were kinda doing their own thing but empty or a normal load they rode like big cars, very smooth.
That's because you can't put all the stone on the tailgate. Keep it to the front of the box so you have weight on the front axle. Also if you overload the truck that will happen, even semi trucks have a load limit and the same thing will happen with them if overloaded or loaded incorrectly. Think Ford was bad, chevrolet would have left you sitting.
@@coolbreeze5561 It was definitely overloaded.....I was treating it like a FORD.
A cousin of mine (rancher) owned a new ‘65 F-100 with Twin-I-Beam. A few years later a tree fell on it. A had a ‘95 F-150 with it, and in 17 years I never had any weird alignment or tire wear issues - just had to replace the driver’s side bushing, twice. Later trucks switched from forged radius arms, to stamped ones, with a shaft welded to it, that went through the bushing.
Video starts 00:57
Great content Steve! Thank you for the great work!
Ah the "ditch to ditch wonder"
how about that uni body ford pickup? any setting around
I remember seeing those adapted to the 80s 4x4 Ford full size Bronco and Bronco sport. Great video!😎👍
Not sure but you mentioned styling and said ‘58-67? Not sure but the body was the same ‘57-60. Front fenders marker lights changed in ‘59 from round to square, front valances changed along with grill and hood. Front sheetmetal minus grill interchanges ‘57-‘58. Hood was the same on ‘57-‘58 but was different in ‘59 and ‘60 so ‘59 - ‘60 fenders and front balance are the same. Sorry I know it is confusing but thought you may not know.
Nice the about Ford truck door tags is they give the wheel base. Important on newer trucks with so many frame lengths.
Our neighbors had a 66 twin ibeam When I was a kid in the 60s . I don't remember the transmission. But I do remember the rear axle shaft coming out of it while they were driving it . Although they drove it for years before that
Hey what if you live here in MA and want to meet Steve? 😄
I have owned 15 1961-1966 ford trucks. I still have a 62 Uni 63, 64, 65, 66 and I am rebuilding a 65 4x4 on my YT channel.
Steve didn't the Blinker lens have a date code, That's how I use to tell, If the truck or car wasn't wrecked, And a original.
Great Video Steve The Twin Beam front suspension was an alignment shop nightmare. A customer would bring one in empty, you set the alignment,they load the crap out oft it Then the nose goes up the alignment goes out and the customer is mad as hell at the alignment shop! We always thought they were designed by Firestone since they were hell on front tires! They also did a great boat imitation! Put a load in the rear,front end comes up, tire contact goes to 1é2 inch and you loose all feel for the steering! Great in the winter Keep up the great work
That TIB suspension a engineering monstrosity!
But can I get a sudden stop with a Haltenberger
We used to have mandatory vehicle testing in metropolitan Vancouver, and the inspectors at the government run facility used to regularly fail Twin I Beam’s, even on near new trucks. You had to be a dyed in the wool blue oval fan to bring that grief on yourself.
Hey Steve I've got an all original 68 dodge 3/4 ton camper special it was my first truck it's got the 318 auto Maricopa shifter on the dash it not in bad shape I'd love to know what you know and think about it
That has to ride pretty harsh, unless you have a camper of equivalent weight on the back. I like them for looks but I think the cabs are too short if you have even slightly long legs.
Great work Steve 👍
Actually found a truck cap with doors nothing else not a spect rust in it. He's asking very little fart and you know he's having trouble getting rid of it! That's all right I've been collecting pieces here and there since I was seeing 17 years old . One of these days I'll build a little short bed. I'll be on your frame I'm sure definitely not crown Vic
Thanks Steve. Excellent content as usual !
Another great vid Steve. Any chance there's a Ford unibody truck there? Would enjoy hearing your take on one of those.
Steve, I had one of these pickups, it was a short box with a 352 V8....
Personally I didn't like the feel of the steering on the twin I beam models. They felt like the tow adjustment would change a lot when hitting a dip in the road or anytime the wheels traveled up or down very much. It's like you always had to drive them, you just couldn't relax. Did this model still have the ignition switch on the left side of the steering column? My Dad bought a new (left over) 64 model, s/b stepside, 6 cyl, 3 on the tree for only $1625.00 a couple months after the 65's came out. He bought another new one in 70, 75 and 79. He didn't buy anymore since I had gotten into the bodyshop business he had me redo it twice, the second time it got an aluminum flatbed since the original was beyond repair. It looked good, 2 tone blue with a lot of chrome and he didn't sell it till 2004 or 2005 for $3500.00. I remember it being a gas hog whether it was loaded or empty.
None of us can afford Peggy Sue's 58 Impala .
Let me get that grill
Twin I beams is the worst on road front end any one ever came up with. It borders on homicidal. As far as not much camber change, that's not true. Camber caster changes are massive. 1" = 2 - 3 degrees of change. If you ever drive 1 of these things you realize itgoes every direction but up down & straight.
One thing that I've always found interesting about the Twin Traction Beam design for F-250 and F-350 pickups is that they still used leaf springs up front. F-100 and F-150 pickups used coil springs up front on the 4x4s.
Also, no matter what Ford pickup you're working on, if it has either the Twin I-beam or Twin Traction Beam suspension, those axle pivot bushings can be a major PITA to replace, especially in the rust belt!
Speedometer had 100 mile an hour AND IT WOULD DO IT. How do I know ? My sister was late bring my dad his lunch on day so we all jumped in the truck 3 sisters in front my brother and I in the bed I looked into the rear window and saw she had buried that needle and called out to my brother “look, we’re going 100 “ ! Needless to say we had our asses planted in that bed LOL
Good times in the 60’s
292 3 speed standard shift on the column with crossover exhaust pipe
Great video thumbs up 👍
Small detail. Twin I-Beam pickups had the engine offset to the right. Not much, about an inch give or take.
The rear diff was centered so the driveshaft was slightly diagonal.
I always thought it had something to do with one I-beam ahead of the other (although I THINK the wheelbase was the same on both sides)
Maybe you know or can find out why… (I hope it’s not just for steering box clearance)
I sold my 1965 Ford 100 long bed, fleet side truck when I moved to Texas. It had a 3 in the tree like this truck and a 6 cylinder with a one bbl carb. No radio, no cigarette lighter, no power steering and no power brakes. It was not the Custom Cab. Just a solid old truck and the doors closed so easily, you would not believe it. Wish I still had that truck.
My 1990 Ranger had the twin I beam too, found it to be too harsh a ride for a 2WD
I had a 1991 2wd Ranger to me it was the most plush ride of a truck ive ever driven i love and miss that truck
The Ford 300 c.i. straight 6 was the best engine ever made by Ford. Could not kill them. I had an old 79 f-100 ranger step side 4x4 with that 300 engine and I beat the snot outta that truck. Best vehicle I have ever owned.
One of my cousins had an F150 as a company vehicle that he managed to kill before it was a year old. He was a salesman for a company that rented construction equipment at the time. He and his boss ordered the truck with the 300 c.i. six, 5 speed manual transmission, (5th gear was overdrive) and the lowest rear axle ratio available. I thinK it was 2.54:1. He was delivering a good sized air compressor to a customer. The frame and suspension might have been okay for towing that much weight but the drive train certainly wasn’t.