A. Audio quality on these recordings tends to be low but I offer them here in case anyone wants a taste of the live talk experience. B. This was recorded on August 28, 2024. As that date is my birthday I'm so used to writing that date with "1985" that I apparently did so here.
A. I love the feel of a love talk but usually miss out due to lack of subtitles, so I appreciate that there is closed captioning. B. It's an easy mistake to make. I hope the little light hearted ribbing in the comments entertains you.
Now we know how he knows so much about ancient norse-germanic times! He has a Ring of Power and has been around since the days of the hobbits... (Actually, he has since left a pinned note that this was on his birthday, so when he was doing the caption he had filled in the year by habit.)
Frigg said that Mistletoe was "too young to swear an oath", (aka a small child) so it must have been a small plant before Baldrs death, and not a big tree that got punished and made into a smaller plant afterwards.
I believe the story of the death of Baldr must be a very ancient Indo-European story. Why? Because we find a similar story (with a twist) found in India (Baladev k illing Romaharshan). First to summarize the Baldr story: Baldr enters an assembly of the gods. All the gods greet him with fun by throwing objects at him (since he is invulnerable to all). Loki instructs Hodr to honor Baldr by throwing some mistletoe at him. This ends up k illing Baldr.The gods become greatly aggrieved and they request Hel to resurrect Baldr but they ultimately fail because of Loki. Now the Baladev story: Baladev enters an assembly of sages. Everyone greets him and honors him except Romaharshan. Baladev then takes a blade of Kusha grass and k ills Romaharshan for his offense. The sages became greatly aggrieved by the d eath of Romaharshan and request Baladev to resurrect him, but instead he blesses Romaharshan's son with long life. Here are the elements of commonality: 1) A god who's name begins with Bal(d) (Baladev/Baldr). Jacob Grimm speculated that Baldr came from Lithuanian Baltas meaning 'white' or 'strong'. Sanskrit 'Bala' means 'strong' whereas Baldr seems to mean 'bold'. Not exactly the same though directionally similar. 2) The god is specifically known to be white (Baldr is fairest of the Aesir, Baladev is white colored). Again, fitting Jacob Grimm's speculation. 3) The god enters an assembly of gods/sages. 4) Something occurs to honor/dishonor the entering guest. 5) A small plant (Mistletoe/Kusha grass) is used as a we apon. 6) The one who honored k ills, the one who dishonored is k illed (this is where it reverses between the two stories). 7) The gods/sages become aggrieved and request the person who d ied to be resurrected, it doesn't happen. I'm no George Dumezil, but that is a near perfect fit for the story. Another minor though interesting point is that Baldr is also known in Anglo-Saxon tradition as Baeldaeg or Baldag. The Daeg/Dag being the early form of English 'day'. I have long argued that the Sanskrit word De (as in Deva) is the same as English 'day'. Linguists disagree. But here is my reasoning: in Sanskrit 'va' means to possess. So Deva means that which possesses De which is light (see Deepam, Divali etc... all of which are lights). This is why the Devas are translated as the Shining Ones (because they possess the light). Baladev would fit exactly with Baeldaeg.
Please note I'm not saying Baladev and Baldr are 1-to-1 the same in all respects. Given vast distances in time and place developments in the story would change. However, there must have been a small story, perhaps regarding how one treats an entering guest. As speculation, perhaps it means that even a small offense or bit of frivolity, as small as a blade of grass/mistletoe, is enough to cause mortal danger that can't be repaired. Just a thought.
Another minor point, and this may be stretching a bit. But in the Indian story, Romaharshan is not blind (like Hodr) but he is specifically said to be very proud. He refused to stand to greet Baladev when he entered the assembly. Some have interpreted this as his pride prevented him from seeing, and thus honoring, the divinity before him in the God Baladev. Thus his pride was a form of spiritual blindness. Its an interpretation and perhaps could connect to Hodr being blind. Maybe a bit of a stretch but as an allegory or story about how to treat a guest I think it could work.
I like the mistletoe theory but I always thought Baldr and Achilles had the same root. The stories are different but the main themes are exactly the same. Both are invincible divine warriors with just 1 unlikely weakness and then get hit by the most unlikely guy on that weakness with the projectile being guided by a god.
Mmmh. The "one weakness" trope is pretty common. There's also Siegfried/Sigurdr and the one spot one his back that wasn't covered in dragon blood, and Samson's hair. Maybe they are genealogically related, but maybe that's just a narrative trope people come up with naturally. And it's a quite natural extension that it's a god who'd expose the weakness given that gods tend to know a lot more than mortals.
@milanney8969 Yes and they are all indo-european. The story of Samson is a Greek one. The tribe of Dan (Denyen/Danoi) were Sea People that joined the Israelites, whereas the Peleset joined the Canaanites and became the Philistines.
I am more comfortable connecting only Achilles, Siegfried and Esfandyar of Persian myth: In every case you have a bath or ointment which makes the hero invincible, but leaves one spot uncovered. The hero is killed by an injury to that spot. If you don't have the element of the ointment/bath and the one vulnerable spot, I think the parallel isn't super-convincing. The attestation of Siegfried and Esfandyar are medieval. And even the "Achilles Heel" doesn't occur in the Iliad itself. So, even though we can be confident that the three stories at least are connected, we have no idea if they are proto-Indo-European. The trope could have originated in Greece, spread to Persia with, say, Alexander and and to the Germanic tribes via the Romans.
The overlay text says this talk was given August 28, 1985. This must be in error ss our esteemed professor would have been a teenager then. Mobile phones were also incredibly rare then.
A. Audio quality on these recordings tends to be low but I offer them here in case anyone wants a taste of the live talk experience. B. This was recorded on August 28, 2024. As that date is my birthday I'm so used to writing that date with "1985" that I apparently did so here.
A. I love the feel of a love talk but usually miss out due to lack of subtitles, so I appreciate that there is closed captioning.
B. It's an easy mistake to make. I hope the little light hearted ribbing in the comments entertains you.
Happy belated birthday young man.
My sister was born on August 28 1985 lol I gave her my Mjolnir necklace for a Yule gift for I do not celebrate Christmas
Given on August 28th 1985? Remarkable video quality, and you do not seem to have aged a day ;-)
He must've gotten his hands on the apples of Idunn haha
Maybe 1985 is when Baldr died.
Now we know how he knows so much about ancient norse-germanic times! He has a Ring of Power and has been around since the days of the hobbits...
(Actually, he has since left a pinned note that this was on his birthday, so when he was doing the caption he had filled in the year by habit.)
Baldr's live in Colorado? 😱 If we hurry we can still save him!
Of course Baldr lives in Colorado, they named a city after him!
Oh, Baldrdash!
Too late. Old Lady Thokkson down in Alamosa didn't cry enough.
Gods be praised! Jackson hasn't aged a day since 1985!
Takk for alle de flotte videoene - god jul! ;)
Baldr came back to life in Colorado on August 28th 1985!? Good to know he found his way out of Hel
Frigg said that Mistletoe was "too young to swear an oath", (aka a small child) so it must have been a small plant before Baldrs death, and not a big tree that got punished and made into a smaller plant afterwards.
20:00 Dr. Merrill Kaplan's hypothesis of a lost myth filling out the gaps in the mistletoe mystery is indeed brilliant, if regrettably unprovable.
Amazing work Mr. Crowford.
''Fátt er ljótt á Baldri'' or ''few things are ugly about Baldur''. An old saying in Old Norse.
1985. I knew there was something timeless about Dr. Crawford....
Thank you for posting this talk.
I believe the story of the death of Baldr must be a very ancient Indo-European story. Why? Because we find a similar story (with a twist) found in India (Baladev k illing Romaharshan).
First to summarize the Baldr story: Baldr enters an assembly of the gods. All the gods greet him with fun by throwing objects at him (since he is invulnerable to all). Loki instructs Hodr to honor Baldr by throwing some mistletoe at him. This ends up k illing Baldr.The gods become greatly aggrieved and they request Hel to resurrect Baldr but they ultimately fail because of Loki.
Now the Baladev story: Baladev enters an assembly of sages. Everyone greets him and honors him except Romaharshan. Baladev then takes a blade of Kusha grass and k ills Romaharshan for his offense. The sages became greatly aggrieved by the d eath of Romaharshan and request Baladev to resurrect him, but instead he blesses Romaharshan's son with long life.
Here are the elements of commonality:
1) A god who's name begins with Bal(d) (Baladev/Baldr). Jacob Grimm speculated that Baldr came from Lithuanian Baltas meaning 'white' or 'strong'. Sanskrit 'Bala' means 'strong' whereas Baldr seems to mean 'bold'. Not exactly the same though directionally similar.
2) The god is specifically known to be white (Baldr is fairest of the Aesir, Baladev is white colored). Again, fitting Jacob Grimm's speculation.
3) The god enters an assembly of gods/sages.
4) Something occurs to honor/dishonor the entering guest.
5) A small plant (Mistletoe/Kusha grass) is used as a we apon.
6) The one who honored k ills, the one who dishonored is k illed (this is where it reverses between the two stories).
7) The gods/sages become aggrieved and request the person who d ied to be resurrected, it doesn't happen.
I'm no George Dumezil, but that is a near perfect fit for the story.
Another minor though interesting point is that Baldr is also known in Anglo-Saxon tradition as Baeldaeg or Baldag. The Daeg/Dag being the early form of English 'day'. I have long argued that the Sanskrit word De (as in Deva) is the same as English 'day'. Linguists disagree. But here is my reasoning: in Sanskrit 'va' means to possess. So Deva means that which possesses De which is light (see Deepam, Divali etc... all of which are lights). This is why the Devas are translated as the Shining Ones (because they possess the light). Baladev would fit exactly with Baeldaeg.
Please note I'm not saying Baladev and Baldr are 1-to-1 the same in all respects. Given vast distances in time and place developments in the story would change. However, there must have been a small story, perhaps regarding how one treats an entering guest. As speculation, perhaps it means that even a small offense or bit of frivolity, as small as a blade of grass/mistletoe, is enough to cause mortal danger that can't be repaired. Just a thought.
Another minor point, and this may be stretching a bit. But in the Indian story, Romaharshan is not blind (like Hodr) but he is specifically said to be very proud. He refused to stand to greet Baladev when he entered the assembly. Some have interpreted this as his pride prevented him from seeing, and thus honoring, the divinity before him in the God Baladev. Thus his pride was a form of spiritual blindness. Its an interpretation and perhaps could connect to Hodr being blind. Maybe a bit of a stretch but as an allegory or story about how to treat a guest I think it could work.
I like the mistletoe theory but I always thought Baldr and Achilles had the same root. The stories are different but the main themes are exactly the same. Both are invincible divine warriors with just 1 unlikely weakness and then get hit by the most unlikely guy on that weakness with the projectile being guided by a god.
Mmmh. The "one weakness" trope is pretty common. There's also Siegfried/Sigurdr and the one spot one his back that wasn't covered in dragon blood, and Samson's hair. Maybe they are genealogically related, but maybe that's just a narrative trope people come up with naturally. And it's a quite natural extension that it's a god who'd expose the weakness given that gods tend to know a lot more than mortals.
@milanney8969 Yes and they are all indo-european. The story of Samson is a Greek one. The tribe of Dan (Denyen/Danoi) were Sea People that joined the Israelites, whereas the Peleset joined the Canaanites and became the Philistines.
I am more comfortable connecting only Achilles, Siegfried and Esfandyar of Persian myth: In every case you have a bath or ointment which makes the hero invincible, but leaves one spot uncovered. The hero is killed by an injury to that spot. If you don't have the element of the ointment/bath and the one vulnerable spot, I think the parallel isn't super-convincing. The attestation of Siegfried and Esfandyar are medieval. And even the "Achilles Heel" doesn't occur in the Iliad itself. So, even though we can be confident that the three stories at least are connected, we have no idea if they are proto-Indo-European. The trope could have originated in Greece, spread to Persia with, say, Alexander and and to the Germanic tribes via the Romans.
I never understood why they made us read Beowulf in eight grade. That was cruel.
Thank you!
The overlay text says this talk was given August 28, 1985. This must be in error ss our esteemed professor would have been a teenager then.
Mobile phones were also incredibly rare then.
I'm guessing he was a toddler, not a teenager, in 1985.
He was born on August 28, 1985 (according to wikipedia)
It's his actual day of birth
I love learning norse mythology 😄
is the 1985 some inside joke
Baldr and Hector have alot in common, including the stories surrounding them.
Whad about Ask and Embla?
🙂
Really bad recording. So I could only grasp some of it 😢
Did u contribute to the game too human? Multimillion dollar game where u play as baldr.?.
I remember playing through that once, over ten years ago. It wasn't the worst reimagining of norse mythology in media. Odd control scheme though.
@greenfrogbad ya da controls were weird. I liked the demo they released.