This episode of Cold Take is brought to you by Sovereign Syndicate. Check out Sovereign Syndicate on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/1674920/Sovereign_Syndicate/
In response to 8:00 , all I have to say is that I don't care what you decide to do, as long as you do so with that voice of yours and your superb writing.
The review was pretty good and I would like to see more reviews of games that have been out for a while, but maybe add a slight subtitle for differentiation from normal cold takes. I personally like "Cold Review"
If you are looking for a review format to spice things up i would like to see you spend some time showcasing strengths and weakness of possible fixes of things you felt held the game back. Decisions that would have changed the game possible for the better. You cant change a games design path you can however show the future generation hey if your going to do something like this heres some things you can think on. Which honestly i feel would go more in theme with your previous show. As well as complimenting another show you stand alongside Design Delve. Where Cold Take would point out problems with the industry and how we might fix them. Your review show could showcase possible other takes and ways games might have been improved. For example yeah ok grind is an issue what could future game devs have done to lessen the damage here. Though you might want to have a seperate name for when you do these things so its easier to organize. Its not a necessity it just makes organizing playlists easier. I hope this feed back helps ya. Also as usual this video was great.
Gotta be honest I'm starting to think I'd just listen to any video Frost made on any subject no matter what it was. He and Yahtzee are perfect contrasts to each other, and both make basically anything sound fascinating.
True, they could both do a video on stamp collecting and I'd still watch both because despite them probably having the same opinion on the matter how they'd go about it would still be different and nuanced enough to enjoy watching. We come for their style and personality, the fact they both have good taste is just icing on the proverbial cake.
What I look for in a reviewer is not necessarily a person I agree with but a person who explains why they feel a certain way about a game in a way I can understand. I would like to see more of your reviews.
I think that's why I love Mark Kermode. Even when I disagree with his overall options, his analysis helps me understand his opinion and even my own even better
@@maxresdefault_ that's exactly the person who I was going to say. Mark explains his thinking as to why he does or doesn't like something. I don't always agree with his take but I enjoy hearing why he thinks the way he does.
Your more chill, eloquent, noir detective vibe is the perfect contrast to the scathing hibachi fire Yahtzee brings to the table. Like cocoa and coffee, you two compliment each other, even if it doesn't seem it on the surface. Together you two make a flavor better than either part could achieve on their own. There's room on Second Wind for a second reviewer, surely.
@@dynomar11 "Cold Take" is owned by Frost outright, Nick talked about making sure the people who created them were the ones who owned them, same reason JM8 still has Design Delve, the other place owns the copyright (at least as far as we are currently aware) to ZP
Fr. I wish I’d had this review before I bought Hades, because if I’d known the gameplay was “Bastion but with more graphics and movement” I’d’ve waited until I had a stronger machine.
It's kinda weird cause anyone who played the game would realise the shortcomings of it pretty easily. The toned down powers that never get you to the insane builds you want. The ever present possibility of dying in a run regardless of skill level because you just couldn't get the necessary damage, the unfair boos fight at the end which is fine the first few times, but becomes a chore when you just want to test builds or finish up the grind. It's one of the few games I just couldn't complete because it got too boring by the end. Seen everything there is to see and done almost everything. The skill cap is also pretty unfair. Most games have a somewhat linear approach where playing more makes you better at the game until you reach the final challenge that requires you to improve over a certain limit. Hades becomes exponentially harder by the end (finishing 32 skulls run is the final challenge imo). and it didn't feel like it's my skill that's lacking, but my luck. It's a great game to play for some time, but it's not one of those games where you can just spent thousands of hours just to know you're getting better.
To be honest, I wouldn't listen to me either, but Hades is a amazing roguelike for people who don't like roguelikes. Frost's point about never winning the lottery is dead on, Hades doesn't remotely come close to the game-breaking builds in Isaac. I think what grinds my gears is the notion that some runs are just garbage in Isaac. That's true... but if you watch any decently talented player in Isaac, the moment to moment decision making is always more exciting to me. Once you learn how to game the system in Hades for legendary boons, the shine on the gameplay wanes significantly. Because you realize the game isn't going to let you outside its walled garden of combinations.
It kind of feels like they're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian though. I've listened to the review and I just don't get it. I've played a lot of roguelikes / lites and Hades has a lot more options and flexibility and different playstyles than the vast majority of them. It's not that it's some kind of perfect game that stands far above all the rest. But the criticism they level at it rings pretty hollow. This feels like a long form version of clickbait, and combined with their really weird takes on railing against difficulty settings, it kind of makes me not want to stay subscribed to the channel if this is the kind of stuff they're going to be putting out. I don't have a problem with someone critiquing a game I like and putting some light on its problems. That's great! But most of their critique doesn't really seem to be founded in reality. Again, this feels like clickbait. It feels like someone being contrarian for the sake of it.
This is actually a great format. A review of how the precursor held up before a near but not quite here sequel. Not cloying but hopefully looking forward or reminding us of past transgressions before the hype cycle really starts taking off. Good timing with this piece. Exactly what I wanted when I wanted it.
Coincidentally, the whole "cold take" theme lends itself incredibly well to reviewing games that have been out for a while, after all the initial review hype has died down, and/or after you've had more time to get a deeper experience with the game!
I can never get enough of reviews by people whose gaming opinions I respect. Your fast paced style which relies on fun wordplay rather than dick jokes (I love Yahtzee's style too, don't get it twisted) is short, sweet, and to the point. I'd happily watch reviews from you
Very interesting! I don't disagree at all with your thoughts on how Hades is strongly balanced and avoids a "broken" build... but I think that is one of the things I like about it. Usually on other roguelikes I end up finding a couple of good builds and end up sticking to those, and resent runs where I get a bad roll, whereas with Hades I find that basically every run is about as fun and viable, where it feels a lot more down to my own skill than random luck and choices. Yeah, I also love a good lucky broken build on other games, it was just nice to have Hades stand out on this approach.
Hades is one of the only Roguelites I actually "Finished" because Supergiant made it such that the highest possible peaks are a bit sanded down yes, but also the "well this run is shit" valleys are way less impactful. Its completely possible to beat a run without a single boon, and there is even special dialogue for it, meaning the devs intended it. You straight up cannot do that in something like Risk of Rain because the game is scaled to say "You must have gotten at least THIS tier of busted to proceed" And I kinda had to wonder if Frost ever got Duo boons... because those are truly where actual "builds" come in, not the weapons themselves.
@@matthewturpin6429 yeah agreed, to me the combat is much better than most other roguelikes because of that, also there are still some really strong builds with legendary and duo boons
@@matthewturpin6429 The Risk of Rain comparison is perfect. Love both games, but Risk of Rain is designed for the challenge itself being the fun. It's unforgiving, but that's the point. The enjoyment comes with peacing together a build that gets you through the bullshit. Downside is, because of how punishing it is and how item dependent runs can be (compounded by the fact that you cant read item descriptions during a run), a lot of losses feel like no win scenarios. The Hades devs went the opposite way. They made the act of doing multiple runs the fun itself by having endless amounts of dialogue and story updates every time you play. The game is still challenging, its just that the game is meant to completable at all stages, regardless of how lucky you got with Boons.
I think the "broken vs. balanced" decision is always going to result in rogueli(k/t)es falling into one of the two camps, rather than either one really dominating. Both approaches have their merits, and accordingly, both have their fans. To pull from Yahtzee's "three Cs" video a while back, balanced roguelikes like Hades or Dead Cells maintain their replayability through Challenge (Hades specifically includes Context as well, but it's very much exceptional in that regard): Because you never become overpowered by what the game gives you, you can always count on it to offer a challenge, especially when paired with a system like Hades' Heat that lets you gradually ramp up the difficulty to match the skill level you've developed by practicing. Broken roguelikes like Isaac, Risk of Rain, or Vampire Survivors maintain their replayability through Catharsis: Once you've overcome the baseline challenge and understand item combos to the point where you can consistently put together something broken, you're not playing to be challenged so much as you're playing for the satisfaction of watching your screen explode and your computer struggle to keep up. Neither is inherently better than the other, it's just a question of what one personally prefers or is currently in the mood for, and so I think there's definitely a place for both in the market.
I only discovered cold take after the Second Wind began but damn I'm sorry I didn't find out about this gem earlier. I am in love with the writing and voice style of cold take. It's such a great take on the noir detective thing and the writing is outstanding. I'd give my left arm to write as good as Frost.
I think we'd largely be down for more reviews, as long as the Cold Takes didn't go away. After all, reviews are what brought most of us to this group to begin with, and you have a very different angle than the other two I'd personally like to see more of.
I came back to Hades a couple of months ago, got the last of the unlockables, and finished my first 32 Heat run. I'm STILL discovering new dialogue and scenes. This is the one roguelite that grabbed me and held me tight. If there were ever a perfect example of a game that proves that great writing can be truly transformative, this is it.
I'm absolutely down for more reviews from Frost. I just love the presentation and discussion he brings to whatever the subject is. So whether it's the conventional Cold Take, a review, or something new, I'll give it a watch.
I like the reviews, especially with Frost's really unique writing style. I could probably listen to him talk about a game I've seen over a dozen hours worth of ramblings and still find it incredibly entertaining just from the way he'll word it.
This is a perfect description of supergiant’s strengths, and sums up nicely why I love them so much. Art direction and narrative place higher than gameplay for me, but I can 100% appreciate the dichotomy between a flawlessly executed narrative experience and gameplay that is fine, but merely serviceable. I’m down for more reviews of this sort.
I mostly agree! I would say that, from my personal experience, I think their gameplay being merely “serviceable” actually has another positive element to it: accessible. My wife and sister, neither of whom have much experience with these types of games, both had a much easier time engaging with the game and enjoying it. My wife just defeated Hades (for at least the fifth or sixth time now) this morning.
@@jacobs483 Exactly. It's easy to get lose in the weeds as a fan of any given genre and forget that without welcoming in new fans, any genre will die. A lot of "it's just okay" gameplay is actually really good for people who haven't been neck deep in it for years like the veterans have. See also: Elden Ring. It doesn't really do anything special with the souls-like combat, but it got more people into the genre than every other game in the genre combined. Sure sounds like they did it right to me.
@@jacobs483 This is me. I love gaming but I get motion sickness VERY easily. It's going to be a controversial subject and I have been called a bot before when trying to find help for it, but I had to full stop playing BG3 on mouse and keyboard after 3 minutes because of the motion sickness. It got better after switching to controller but holy hell it sucks to use. Unless its Stardew valley, I am pretty much limited to games that are optimized for controllers. I normally dislike rogue likes because they end up being a bullet hell and too much stuff happening for my poor brain to process without getting sick but after watching my husband play Hades, I figured I could do it (my litmus test for all games before buying them is to watch a letsplay). For me, managing motion sickness is part of the gaming experience and means that I need to have a narrower focus field than other people and flipping around the screen looking at stuff not immediately involved in my character is a good way to make me lie down in a dark room chugging water for 3 hours. This game had that narrower field of focus and never once made me almost vomit. So, to me it's perfect gameplay. If other people want a game that makes them bleed from the forehead because they keep ramming it into a wall or requires a keyboard and mouse to be any good at, there are other games for that.
There isn't anything quite like Transistor's gameplay around though - it isn't exactly a very expandable system but it was executed to near perfection in that game
This review is cathartic to someone who replayed Hades a year ago. The first go around was a emotional roller coaster, with twists and turns and had me wondering if I'd ever get out of hell. First time took me like thirty or so runs. Second time I played it only took six times to get to daddy. Its clear the game didn't expect me to get that far that fast, and it completely broke the pace. With the magic of the clime gone, its hearing a story you already heard, and slowly grinding resources to get slightly more damage and better boons. Please do more reviews.
More Frost? Yes please. I love your writing and presentation style. Its an excellent contrast to Yahtzee's fire and speed. A cool, mellow wordplay-filled video as smooth as that 18 year old single malt i have for special occasions.
Frost, I'd love to hear more reviews from you, but It should probably be a separate series, so from the title I know what I'm getting into. "Freeze Frame" maybe? Since you are really good at zeroing in on a few game features, exploding the understanding of how they fit into the greater puzzle, along with the "It's this not that that you actually adore here" which has taken me by surprise as being right more times than I'd like to admit. My hat is off to you. More Frost content makes this particular view happy. You unique laser focus really chills every time it's unleashed. And a welcomed fresh change of pace from Yahtzee's unending deluge. I like bouncing back and forth between the slower and faster paced content from this crew.
This feels like the antithesis to yahtzee's ramblomatic, and they compliment each other fabulously I could listen to Yatz first then absorb a more reflective delivery game after game and never get bored.
Would personally enjoy getting both a Fully Ramblomatic and a Cold Take review when Hades 2 comes out. Makes sense to not both cover new games all the time, but I can't imagine it would hurt anything to do that occasionally
Frost this is a beautiful piece man 🙏 Fully captures most of my feelings about this game 🥃 For a long while I kept meaning to go back and "finish" it, just couldn't suffer the grind anymore even though it's gorgeous to look at and lovely on the ears. Keep making what you wanna make man, I'll keep watching😊 Cheers!🍻
I'm right here with you. A game like Isaac or Gungeon keeps me coming back because the "grind" is unlocking more wackiness. Hades is a good game but I really get bored of the grind to it.
@@mandradon Still want to play Isaac - only have a switch and I think I missed the sale. Dropped Gungeon right after I rolled credits but I could go back and see about the rest of the story. The grind wasn't all that bad in Gungeon either, I just wanted a different flavor of game. Currently playing through the additional campaigns in Darksiders II 😁
The fact that you can’t get completely broken in Hades is something I realize I was also missing. I don’t need every run to be crazy but I love Risk of Rain runs that start killing the frame rate and reach a point where you are just sprinting at the speed out sound as everything on the screen dies in a sea of electricity and ghost knives.
You can absolutely get broken runs in Hades. I just had a run where my dashes alone could slam enemies into the wall where they would blow up, get slammed into a different wall and blow up again, etc. etc. It made the stage before the final boss literally a walk (or sprint) in the park. You just need to find good synergies for your boons.
Yeah, there’s a few very lucky combos where things can go juuuuuust right and you breeze through it all, but compared to games like Slay the Spire, its so much more rare to really feel that insanely-OP in a run, and it requires a ton more luck than actual game knowledge or skill.
Absolutely, I want roguelikes where the power of the various combinations is so high that you get overpowered somewhat frequently, and on some rare occasions get so ridiculous that hitting the attack button once crashes the game.
It feels like SG really wanted to telegraph where the stronger builds were with the Duo and Legendary boons. But, they ended up putting too much scarcity in place, and then overshot sanding down the edges. It caused the intended power combos to be slog to pursue. It also doesn't help that several of them are just traps that only sound good on paper. Either, because the combo was never fully realized by the dev team, or the probability of the stars aligning was way too small. I mean, it DOES feel really good when everything falls into place, you've got 2x the Crystal Beams, they're homing like turrets, and everything is constantly debuffed and exploding. But, in my entire story playthrough, that kind of thing only really happened by accident or intuition a few times. Most of the time, it was underwhelming. What actually got me through the biggest difficulty spike I encountered was looking up high-level players on UA-cam. After a few videos, I could comfortably walk away and do the build-craft myself. Which is totally fine for me; but, I don't imagine it feels great to folks that don't enjoy recreational math.
slay the spire and hades were my first foray into the roguelike/lite genre and I think the fact that you can't get absolutely broken is what I like about these games. To me, that means every run is still a challenge no matter what you do, since your build alone won't necessarily carry you. I spent a lot of time over the past year playing Vampire Survivors and while I liked it, I stopped short of unlocking every character after I got every achievement and beat the main story, unlike with Hades or Slay the Spire where I spent 100s of hours going for max unlocks and achievements. And in retrospect, it's because builds in VS can get so broken as to carry you through even the hardest levels even before unlocking everything so to me, it felt kind of pointless investing more time into it. It wasn't changing my capacity to win or my playstyle. Though I do get how people can feel like the broken builds are a necessary reward for their efforts.
The solution to the mirror problem is simple: don't just spend your darkness the second you have it, wait a couple runs in a row until you can dump in for more rewards at once and the impact is a lot more tangible. In the meantime, the several runs you do while farming feel different enough if you swap around boons and weapons. By the time you're going up and up in heat, it's more about turning on or off your mirror boons or swapping them out for the other side to suit the playstyle. Once they're all unlocked they aren't just static power buffs- you can either tune them based on what your hopeful build would want, or you can trade them in for more heat.
this is a great review! I'm a massive fan of Hades and the studio, but definitely see where you're coming from. One thing I'd say is that the way the boons/blessings can synergise to an absolutely ungodly set of damage on a run is half the fun and definitely something that isn't covered here (i.e. if you have x boon from Demeter and y boon from Artemis, you can start picking up/expanding on a kind of combined-front boon set that, for that mix, heals, as an example). Finding the different synergies is one of the things I found really fun as I was at the height of playing a lot of it, because experimenting with the RNG-options, particularly when the different weapon forms kick in, made for a lot of variety
The glass half full description you gave is perfect to describe how i love the game so much, and cooled my hot jets after you mentioned your most badass run in Hades only felt like getting 2 pennies. Because i've 100%'d all of the keepsakes, all the weapon aspects, the mirror, and the little Minor Prophecies list, it feels like almost every run can be as powerful as i want it to be just by manipulating the odds and choosing the right path. But maybe that's also part of the problem you're talking about, that as a roguelike it really doesn't do a whole lot to distinguish each run from each other. It's up to the player to swap out their weapons, their keepsakes, to pick different boons than they usually do. Each dungeon always has the same number of rooms, there's a limited number of room designs that are just randomly arranged after one another, with some slightly fancy decision making to make sure this room is always one of the first, that one's usually one of the last, etc etc. Its a roguelike that you can feel like you've mastered on some level because once you have grinded enough, you can make every run whatever you want it to be, excepting for just getting unlucky on what boons pop up (which can be mitigated to an extent by swapping out keepsakes between dungeons to try and gurantee the god you want appears). Its a roguelike that becomes less rogue-like the longer you play it.
The best part about starting fresh: You set the rules. If you want to mix in some reviews with your more thinkpiecey stuff, I certainly shall not discourage you. I joined to support you guys setting out on your own, whatever that means.
Honestly, I'd be down to reviews from you as well, you have that eye for critique and are able to articulate your reasoning behind your opinion. As a whole, the entire channel is really putting out great content between the ramblematics, the dev deep dives and cold take. This is good stuff. I really appreciate the fact that you guys put this stuff out there on UA-cam where you don't really get a good monetization on it and I am ever so thankful that people are supporting you.
I put hundreds of hours into risk of rain, roboquest, isaac, slay the spire and others, but I could never, for the life of me, finish Hades. I loved the characters, the writing, and the art, but this wasn't a game for me. It's the first time I've heard someone express the same feeling I had in such a coherent way. Great video, looking forward to more reviews.
I still love Hades - both its narrative and gameplay - but listening to your review made me really think about the gameplay more, and I think you have a point. Incremental damage increases _are_ pretty vanilla, and it's possible that the narrative carried the game much more than I realised, especially since it's basically the same gameplay as Bastion and Transistor. I'm looking forward to any reviews you decide to do in the future, Frost!
Love Hades, one of my favorite roguelites. Great storytelling, music, art, gameplay and it really made me want to complete it. Still probably gonna come back to it even after I got the platinum.
Frost shines with writing and delivery. Like many others, I don't care if he uses those skill in an industry analysis or in a game review. Write whatever you want man, we are here for it
I loved the Glass half full + glass half empty "takes" as context for a non scored review... keep to what you said at the end: no expectations but you're considering it here and there. I love what you all are doing. please do more at the pace that benefits you.
"A wide range of feedback skews everything to average... grow a spine, stick to your guns..." "Let me know in the comments... I'll let you all decide" Frost, absolutely the fuck do not let us all decide
Frost, you should definitely do more reviews. Besides that excellent voice, you have an engaging way with words. How you describe not just the game itself but how it *feels* to play it helps paint a full picture of what to expect from it. In fact, this review had me adding Hades I & II to my steam wishlist!
The resource grind isnt all that bad. Most resources can be traded in for one another so if youre really trying to focus Titan Blood for weapon unlocks or Ambrosia to max out approval you can choose to convert and do that faster rather than amassing quantities of each resource more generally
The grind did eventually hit a point where I wasn't seeing new dialogue anymore, and I don't mean to brag, but I'm pretty decent at Hades. It could've been a lot longer. I'm discovering I enjoy a grind sometimes, but that bag of tricks they designed with the dialogue in Hades is so cool that I consider it a minor failure that the game didn't QUITE have enough of it to fill out its entire runtime. It's not like I was grinding out all the decorations, either. Just the relationships I cared about and the weapons, really.
Pretty sure the world in general needs as much of that smooth buttery voice of yours as is physically possible. I’m certainly not going to pass on a review or two.
I love cold take. You do a great job presenting your opinions and views. It comes from someone who's experienced in the industry and it shows. You make videos on whatever you want to talk about and I'll watch them.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed this and it gave me a new perspective on a game I loved. Hades was my first and pretty much only rogue like, and I loved it for precisely the aspects Frost describes. I never thought much about the gameplay independent of the narrative.
Loved it, please do more. I love your writing and Yatzee's writing and both provide a different experience, so even if you did review the same game I would watch both! Please keep it coming!
For some reason, I’m the type of person that can’t hear or read negative reviews or opinions about the things I love, it almost feels like they’re insulting me for liking the thing being reviewed. And Hades is one of my favorite games ever, but you managed to strike a delicate balance here so I applaud you. It didn’t feel hateful or condescending but just…critical. That is a rare thing to encounter on this site and so it definitely earned a subscription. Thanks!
I absolutely love this game and ended up replaying it a lot last year. Was hoping to beat it again before hades 2 comes out but I’ve got a dissertation to write. Hopefully I’ll be done before the hades 2 beta starts
I feel that dissertation writing comes first. I finished mine last year around the beginning of June. My goal was to be done before Tears of the Kingdom came out. I unfortunately forgot that my committee/reviews did not have that same time crunch schedule and ended up not being able to defend until June 5th. It was killing me seeing all the crazy stuff coming out of that game for like 2 weeks before I could play it. I had my husband download it while I was defending so I could literally get home, and it would be there on the switch ready for me. Protip 1, do your literature review last and start with your research sections first (if you are research based). Chances are that you have pretty much already written these as papers and all you need to do is adjust the format and page numbers. It really helps to break the glass and start the writing process. It also prevents you from going on very deep rabbit holes in the literature as normally you are in a time crunch at this point and just want to get it done. Protip 2, schedule your public defense (if that is how your uni does it) later in the afternoon. Mine ended up being around 2:30pm due to committee member schedules (not on my end) and it was an hour-long presentation with questions at the end, so defense didn't start until 3:45ish. Turns out, they don't want to be there past 5pm if they can help it and my argument only took about 30-45 minutes and their deliberation was approximately 5 minutes. I will also say that my committee was very involved with my research (infectious disease if that matters) and I had semi-annual updates with all of them so at the end they were pretty much up to speed on everything, and any issues were already addressed months prior. Most of the arguments were about what journal they wanted to publish in.
I love this. Your "review" still feels like a cold take and approaches the discussion in a unique perspective. I'd be very excited to see more of these types of videos in the future
Think all his videos are great! Genuinely think I'd get enjoyment from just hearing him read out a chinese takeout menu that voice is just so damn smooth So looking forward to anything Frost is writing or reviewing in the future 👍🏻
genuinely amazing review. I love how much you packed in without wasting a word and had a very nuanced perspective. also very funny and witty, I really want more.
Damn, you perfectly described my experience with the game. I managed to stick with it for longer, got all the aspects and concluded the story of all the NPCs and the overarching narrative of the post game. Really was just a matter of playing it, beating it and putting it away on good terms. Not feeling too compelled to get back given that I know I won't get any run that's too exciting. You absolutely hit the nail on the head with everything wrong with it as well.
I remember when I played this. I was loving the story but I hit a point where I was making very small progress each run and the story had essentially pressed pause to wait for me to get far enough to continue. I had to switch on the extra defense option just so I didn't burn out. But once I finally made my first successful run, I was hooked and finished everything after that. Didn't do any of the challenges but I left satisfied. Also, you do you man. If you wanna do reviews while continuing Cold Take, go for it!
Hades is the only roguelike I've ever played, but I love it. I still play my first save slot because I STILL find new little things popping up as I complete. And honestly I think the easy mode is necessary, I'm not great with games that are too hard because frustration isn't fun and fighting strategy is not my strong suit. Having an easy mode helped me stay with it and make it one of my absolute fav games.
as someone currently deep enough in the throes of a Hades kick to have actually near-100%'d the game (unlocking the last of the achievements, unlocking all the ~fancy statues~, maxing out upgrades), i'd say it's a pretty fair assessment. it's like, as great as the art direction is, and as much fun as i'm having now, i can see why i dropped off of this and went back to binding of isaac again after some time.
Seriously impressed with this video. The editing, the noir tone and dry sarcastic humor. Not familiar with this chap from the old channel, but I think I found my new favorite series. Well done, sir. Well done.
I LOVE your smooth, cool, noir detective delivery. I burned through all your videos this afternoon. I'd listen to anything you wanted to present me, so long as it's this slick.
I dunno, I completed all the story sections of Hades two years ago, but I still find myself going back every so often for a few runs. There are still some work orders I haven’t unlocked, or weapons I haven’t fully upgraded, which is an excuse to keep playing. And since a run at this point can take 25-30 minutes it’s easy to drop in and out of. Hades has become a forever game for me.
Do a mix of reviews and cold takes. I would rather have more thought out and spaced apart Cold Takes then having you burn out on them. Hearing opinons on games is always helpful in determining what to play next. Everyone at 2W has different approaches to games and what they like. I find my tastes align more with some than with others. So having multiple review shows (and not just streams, although I like those as well) would be nice.
Maybe it’s because I’m a narrative player first, but I never understood why people insist on replayability. I cried over my experience in Hades but never picked it up after I finished the full story because once the story is over I don’t want to spend hours revolving like a sad load of laundry after the wash cycle is done in a game whose story has ended. And stories do end. That is a requirement of the narrative part of games, and why would I want it to never end? Once I’ve played one game there are thousands of other worthy games out there waiting for me to play them, and they deserve a chance too. I’ll keep Hades in a privileged place on my shelf so that in ten years when I get nostalgic I can pick it up again and experience it all over again, but then I’ll start from scratch. Part of what I also liked about hades it that it rewarded lazy players, and I am nothing if not a lazy player. I will explore every last inch of an EldenRing-sized game to get all the goodies and know everything there is to know about that world, but I have no compunctions about cheesing the best and easiest strategy to get there. I get little satisfaction out of the grind regardless. I do it for the narrative, and if that narrative is good enough yes I will spend hours grinding and getting gud and doing all the things that a Gud Gamer is supposed to do to be Gud. But Hades saw me cheesing and said “here. Have more cheese. You seem to like it.” And I appreciate that.
Yes to reviews! Never was aware of your content before Second Wind but now that I’ve heard how your brain works I just want more of it. Keep up the good, mah boy!
I love your writing, friend. I appreciate your leveled willingness to talk about what doesnt spark joy in a title that is well regarded like Hades. So yes. To answer your question I’d be open to more reviews among the cold takes. If you like what you make then thats the stuff I wanna see.
Hard disagree on your balance take. It's a perfect setup for new players, especially those new to the genre: you start off earning Darkness to make the game easier while you learn how to play. Reduce damage, get more money, increase health, etc. Then you beat the game and it hits you with a new menu that says "hey kid, you wanna try getting GOOD at this game?" This isn't something to complain about, this is literally just how human progression works when it comes to engaging in any kind of skill. You start off sucking at it, so you do things to make it easier; then you get good enough to start intentionally making the thing HARDER, because you are now in a place to seek a challenge.
Loved the review! It has enough of the industry introspection we love from Cold Take, while still getting your remarkably balanced thoughts on the title.
I really enjoyed how your review didn't simply look at the game in a vacuum, but added lots of context and looked at the game both within the supergiant catalogue as well as related genres, so this felt like a different kind of review than fully ramblomatic and I would be quite happy to see more reviews from you, esp for older titles where you can bring in more info and kind of center it within its place in the industry with the benefit of hindsight. it feels kinda like an extension of your (way more thoroughly, I'm sure, but) also researched cold take cases
Wow, you absolutely nailed my feelings that I couldn't pin down. I'm a massive Risk of Rain 2 fan and I just couldn't get into this. None of it felt bad, it just all felt polished to the point of almost losing its sense of combat variety. It was so balanced that nothing felt OP once I achieved it, but RoR2 embraces the insanity that can be caused by a broken build. In Hades I felt either almost strong or just strong enough, and I kept waiting for that run that just exploded, but it never came. I love the idea of Hades, and I'll probably try it again for about 3 runs before moving on. Bummer.
Very fair take on the game. As someone who doesn't particularly want to do the broken build rogue-like thing, I enjoy the balanced grind-iness of the game. I was in it more for the story and presentation than the varied gameplay, so it's fine for me.
love the format and tone of these videos. keep doing these. One of my new favourite youtube videos. I will be subscirbing to the Patron when next paid.
If it means you'll speak into a microphone please do anything you want. Your voice is the equivalent of of that button in Hades that lets you pet Cerberus- it's just feels good and makes me appreciate everything around it all the more.
Criticizes company for listening to what fans wanted and not sticking to their guns. Then proceeds to ask fans if they like the new format or if it should go away even though he misses reviews.
It's refreshing to see someone who shares opinions about Hades gameplay, with the only exception I can think of being that Artemis is one of the more helpful gods because you can actually feel the impact of a crit. tbh the writing and voice acting was what allowed me to finish the game. I was getting really bored with the combat and grind long before finishing tue main story.
This review is absolutely superb. Truly a breath of fresh air in the gaming review space. Also, as others have said, your style is the perfect compliment to Yahtzee's hot fire blitz. I sincerely hope there's room for more Cold Take game reviews.
For what it's worth, I like your reviews A LOT! Your style of breakdown on mechanics and story is stellar, but your ending "glass half-full and glass half-empty" final takes were so cool to see two perspectives on Hades, and I look forward to seeing that applied to future games!
Loved the review. Your voice is wonderful to listen to on any topic, and you make a lot of good points about the variety (or lack thereof) across many runs. I think the reason I don't share that opinion is that Hades greatly rewards success. If you pick up the game systems quickly, you get lots of treasure that feels like you're advancing quickly. If you get stuck dying to Megaera repeatedly, you get less resources to progress, which feels bad
Funny enough the grind alot of people hate is one thing that keep bringing me back to this game lol. I love nothing more than getting high, listening to some music and killing shades for 6 hours lol
This was utterly brilliant! And I definitely want more reviews. And I like the sound of reviewing classic older games. An introduction for those who didn't play them at the time, and a nostalgic revisiting for those who did
I enjoyed this video series and you have a good voice. Would love for this to continue. I'm still not entirely sure what games you're into/would like to talk about but I'll keep watching and eventually come up with something I'm sure.
Yo, I really liked this. As someone who often doesn’t pick up games day one and just got into hades I liked seeing this come across my feed. More please!
Personally I prefer the original Cold Take format better than when it transferred to Second Wind. It was a minimalist series, carried almost solely by Frost's voice, writing and explanations of and opinions on some touchy subjects. It was pure suave, not diluted by any fancy production gimmicks. No fancy edits or live footage, no silly sun-shaded ice cube avatar to display Frost's emotions. I'm not completely turned off by it, but you asked for my opinion so here it is. I'll like and watch Frost's series nonetheless, no matter what direction he decides to take it in. I just wanted to give my 2 cents.
I have a good time listening to you guys do pretty much whatever, if more review takes are good for your work flow and creativity I'll be here for them.
This episode of Cold Take is brought to you by Sovereign Syndicate. Check out Sovereign Syndicate on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/1674920/Sovereign_Syndicate/
In response to 8:00 , all I have to say is that I don't care what you decide to do, as long as you do so with that voice of yours and your superb writing.
Thanks for waiting until the end for the sponsor read. Didn't disrupt the video, and as a result I didn't mind watching through it.
The review was pretty good and I would like to see more reviews of games that have been out for a while, but maybe add a slight subtitle for differentiation from normal cold takes. I personally like "Cold Review"
If you are looking for a review format to spice things up i would like to see you spend some time showcasing strengths and weakness of possible fixes of things you felt held the game back.
Decisions that would have changed the game possible for the better.
You cant change a games design path you can however show the future generation hey if your going to do something like this heres some things you can think on.
Which honestly i feel would go more in theme with your previous show. As well as complimenting another show you stand alongside Design Delve.
Where Cold Take would point out problems with the industry and how we might fix them.
Your review show could showcase possible other takes and ways games might have been improved.
For example yeah ok grind is an issue what could future game devs have done to lessen the damage here.
Though you might want to have a seperate name for when you do these things so its easier to organize.
Its not a necessity it just makes organizing playlists easier.
I hope this feed back helps ya.
Also as usual this video was great.
❤❤❤❤
"A bad grind ruins knives, lap dances, and video games". I love this guy lmao
Now I'm imagining the Lap Dance "Simulator" in GTAV
And coffee. A bad grind also ruins coffee. Just wanna say.
Not to mention skateboards.
When a person is _just now_ finding out about frost shortly after they departed escapist:
True poetry
Gotta be honest I'm starting to think I'd just listen to any video Frost made on any subject no matter what it was. He and Yahtzee are perfect contrasts to each other, and both make basically anything sound fascinating.
True, they could both do a video on stamp collecting and I'd still watch both because despite them probably having the same opinion on the matter how they'd go about it would still be different and nuanced enough to enjoy watching. We come for their style and personality, the fact they both have good taste is just icing on the proverbial cake.
That's what people say makes a youtuber Good. Especially guys like SummoningSalt
@@TheCodemasterc We also come because we've come to know their tastes and priorities. Reviews need that context to really have meaning.
He has his own channel as well. He was mainly focused on smite for years.
What I look for in a reviewer is not necessarily a person I agree with but a person who explains why they feel a certain way about a game in a way I can understand. I would like to see more of your reviews.
I think that's why I love Mark Kermode. Even when I disagree with his overall options, his analysis helps me understand his opinion and even my own even better
@@maxresdefault_ that's exactly the person who I was going to say. Mark explains his thinking as to why he does or doesn't like something. I don't always agree with his take but I enjoy hearing why he thinks the way he does.
Your more chill, eloquent, noir detective vibe is the perfect contrast to the scathing hibachi fire Yahtzee brings to the table. Like cocoa and coffee, you two compliment each other, even if it doesn't seem it on the surface. Together you two make a flavor better than either part could achieve on their own. There's room on Second Wind for a second reviewer, surely.
Well said!
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I’ve never watched Cold Take before this, but I cannot wait to watch another!
Yes! This. I'd even love to see both of their takes on the same game.
personally I think it'd be neat to see them do a Siskel an Ebert or Waldorf an Stadler thing on a game or two. Can you imagine?
Getting a little tiring seeing every cold take video have this exact same comment tbh
I really appreciate how this show was so incredibly "yours" that it barely needed to change post windwaking
Welp, job's done. Everyone can go home now.
Windwaking is now the official term for what happened.
@@dynomar11 "Cold Take" is owned by Frost outright, Nick talked about making sure the people who created them were the ones who owned them, same reason JM8 still has Design Delve, the other place owns the copyright (at least as far as we are currently aware) to ZP
@@dynomar11 Wasn't Fully Ramblomatic still named this before The Escapist hired Yahtzee?
Wow, I've literally never heard someone be CRITICAL of Hades. It's all been overwhelming praise. I appreciate your approach here.
Fr. I wish I’d had this review before I bought Hades, because if I’d known the gameplay was “Bastion but with more graphics and movement” I’d’ve waited until I had a stronger machine.
It's kinda weird cause anyone who played the game would realise the shortcomings of it pretty easily. The toned down powers that never get you to the insane builds you want. The ever present possibility of dying in a run regardless of skill level because you just couldn't get the necessary damage, the unfair boos fight at the end which is fine the first few times, but becomes a chore when you just want to test builds or finish up the grind.
It's one of the few games I just couldn't complete because it got too boring by the end. Seen everything there is to see and done almost everything. The skill cap is also pretty unfair. Most games have a somewhat linear approach where playing more makes you better at the game until you reach the final challenge that requires you to improve over a certain limit. Hades becomes exponentially harder by the end (finishing 32 skulls run is the final challenge imo). and it didn't feel like it's my skill that's lacking, but my luck.
It's a great game to play for some time, but it's not one of those games where you can just spent thousands of hours just to know you're getting better.
To be honest, I wouldn't listen to me either, but Hades is a amazing roguelike for people who don't like roguelikes. Frost's point about never winning the lottery is dead on, Hades doesn't remotely come close to the game-breaking builds in Isaac. I think what grinds my gears is the notion that some runs are just garbage in Isaac. That's true... but if you watch any decently talented player in Isaac, the moment to moment decision making is always more exciting to me.
Once you learn how to game the system in Hades for legendary boons, the shine on the gameplay wanes significantly. Because you realize the game isn't going to let you outside its walled garden of combinations.
It kind of feels like they're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian though. I've listened to the review and I just don't get it. I've played a lot of roguelikes / lites and Hades has a lot more options and flexibility and different playstyles than the vast majority of them.
It's not that it's some kind of perfect game that stands far above all the rest. But the criticism they level at it rings pretty hollow. This feels like a long form version of clickbait, and combined with their really weird takes on railing against difficulty settings, it kind of makes me not want to stay subscribed to the channel if this is the kind of stuff they're going to be putting out.
I don't have a problem with someone critiquing a game I like and putting some light on its problems. That's great! But most of their critique doesn't really seem to be founded in reality.
Again, this feels like clickbait. It feels like someone being contrarian for the sake of it.
@@vezokpiraka speaking as someone who loves Hades, I 100% agree with you!
This is actually a great format. A review of how the precursor held up before a near but not quite here sequel. Not cloying but hopefully looking forward or reminding us of past transgressions before the hype cycle really starts taking off.
Good timing with this piece. Exactly what I wanted when I wanted it.
@@Scroolewse Hell yeah, brother. I even bag my own farts for future enjoyment.
@@Atrophes Pshhh. Poser. I was beef bagging before it was cool.
Coincidentally, the whole "cold take" theme lends itself incredibly well to reviewing games that have been out for a while, after all the initial review hype has died down, and/or after you've had more time to get a deeper experience with the game!
I can never get enough of reviews by people whose gaming opinions I respect. Your fast paced style which relies on fun wordplay rather than dick jokes (I love Yahtzee's style too, don't get it twisted) is short, sweet, and to the point. I'd happily watch reviews from you
Very interesting! I don't disagree at all with your thoughts on how Hades is strongly balanced and avoids a "broken" build... but I think that is one of the things I like about it. Usually on other roguelikes I end up finding a couple of good builds and end up sticking to those, and resent runs where I get a bad roll, whereas with Hades I find that basically every run is about as fun and viable, where it feels a lot more down to my own skill than random luck and choices. Yeah, I also love a good lucky broken build on other games, it was just nice to have Hades stand out on this approach.
Hades is one of the only Roguelites I actually "Finished" because Supergiant made it such that the highest possible peaks are a bit sanded down yes, but also the "well this run is shit" valleys are way less impactful. Its completely possible to beat a run without a single boon, and there is even special dialogue for it, meaning the devs intended it.
You straight up cannot do that in something like Risk of Rain because the game is scaled to say "You must have gotten at least THIS tier of busted to proceed"
And I kinda had to wonder if Frost ever got Duo boons... because those are truly where actual "builds" come in, not the weapons themselves.
@@matthewturpin6429 yeah agreed, to me the combat is much better than most other roguelikes because of that, also there are still some really strong builds with legendary and duo boons
Like there are runs even with the pacts of punishment where I would've had to intentionally lose to die to Hades
My first successful run was with the weapon I like the least. I still like it least but I think that's saying something.
@@matthewturpin6429 The Risk of Rain comparison is perfect. Love both games, but Risk of Rain is designed for the challenge itself being the fun. It's unforgiving, but that's the point. The enjoyment comes with peacing together a build that gets you through the bullshit. Downside is, because of how punishing it is and how item dependent runs can be (compounded by the fact that you cant read item descriptions during a run), a lot of losses feel like no win scenarios.
The Hades devs went the opposite way. They made the act of doing multiple runs the fun itself by having endless amounts of dialogue and story updates every time you play. The game is still challenging, its just that the game is meant to completable at all stages, regardless of how lucky you got with Boons.
I think the "broken vs. balanced" decision is always going to result in rogueli(k/t)es falling into one of the two camps, rather than either one really dominating. Both approaches have their merits, and accordingly, both have their fans. To pull from Yahtzee's "three Cs" video a while back, balanced roguelikes like Hades or Dead Cells maintain their replayability through Challenge (Hades specifically includes Context as well, but it's very much exceptional in that regard): Because you never become overpowered by what the game gives you, you can always count on it to offer a challenge, especially when paired with a system like Hades' Heat that lets you gradually ramp up the difficulty to match the skill level you've developed by practicing. Broken roguelikes like Isaac, Risk of Rain, or Vampire Survivors maintain their replayability through Catharsis: Once you've overcome the baseline challenge and understand item combos to the point where you can consistently put together something broken, you're not playing to be challenged so much as you're playing for the satisfaction of watching your screen explode and your computer struggle to keep up. Neither is inherently better than the other, it's just a question of what one personally prefers or is currently in the mood for, and so I think there's definitely a place for both in the market.
I only discovered cold take after the Second Wind began but damn I'm sorry I didn't find out about this gem earlier. I am in love with the writing and voice style of cold take. It's such a great take on the noir detective thing and the writing is outstanding. I'd give my left arm to write as good as Frost.
I think we'd largely be down for more reviews, as long as the Cold Takes didn't go away. After all, reviews are what brought most of us to this group to begin with, and you have a very different angle than the other two I'd personally like to see more of.
I came back to Hades a couple of months ago, got the last of the unlockables, and finished my first 32 Heat run. I'm STILL discovering new dialogue and scenes. This is the one roguelite that grabbed me and held me tight. If there were ever a perfect example of a game that proves that great writing can be truly transformative, this is it.
Dude nice I just did 24
I'm absolutely down for more reviews from Frost. I just love the presentation and discussion he brings to whatever the subject is. So whether it's the conventional Cold Take, a review, or something new, I'll give it a watch.
I like the reviews, especially with Frost's really unique writing style. I could probably listen to him talk about a game I've seen over a dozen hours worth of ramblings and still find it incredibly entertaining just from the way he'll word it.
This is a perfect description of supergiant’s strengths, and sums up nicely why I love them so much. Art direction and narrative place higher than gameplay for me, but I can 100% appreciate the dichotomy between a flawlessly executed narrative experience and gameplay that is fine, but merely serviceable. I’m down for more reviews of this sort.
I mostly agree! I would say that, from my personal experience, I think their gameplay being merely “serviceable” actually has another positive element to it: accessible.
My wife and sister, neither of whom have much experience with these types of games, both had a much easier time engaging with the game and enjoying it. My wife just defeated Hades (for at least the fifth or sixth time now) this morning.
@@jacobs483 Exactly. It's easy to get lose in the weeds as a fan of any given genre and forget that without welcoming in new fans, any genre will die. A lot of "it's just okay" gameplay is actually really good for people who haven't been neck deep in it for years like the veterans have. See also: Elden Ring. It doesn't really do anything special with the souls-like combat, but it got more people into the genre than every other game in the genre combined. Sure sounds like they did it right to me.
@@jacobs483 This is me. I love gaming but I get motion sickness VERY easily. It's going to be a controversial subject and I have been called a bot before when trying to find help for it, but I had to full stop playing BG3 on mouse and keyboard after 3 minutes because of the motion sickness. It got better after switching to controller but holy hell it sucks to use. Unless its Stardew valley, I am pretty much limited to games that are optimized for controllers. I normally dislike rogue likes because they end up being a bullet hell and too much stuff happening for my poor brain to process without getting sick but after watching my husband play Hades, I figured I could do it (my litmus test for all games before buying them is to watch a letsplay). For me, managing motion sickness is part of the gaming experience and means that I need to have a narrower focus field than other people and flipping around the screen looking at stuff not immediately involved in my character is a good way to make me lie down in a dark room chugging water for 3 hours. This game had that narrower field of focus and never once made me almost vomit. So, to me it's perfect gameplay. If other people want a game that makes them bleed from the forehead because they keep ramming it into a wall or requires a keyboard and mouse to be any good at, there are other games for that.
a game in which the actually gameplay is the weakest part. That's just sad to be honest.
There isn't anything quite like Transistor's gameplay around though - it isn't exactly a very expandable system but it was executed to near perfection in that game
This review is cathartic to someone who replayed Hades a year ago. The first go around was a emotional roller coaster, with twists and turns and had me wondering if I'd ever get out of hell. First time took me like thirty or so runs. Second time I played it only took six times to get to daddy. Its clear the game didn't expect me to get that far that fast, and it completely broke the pace. With the magic of the clime gone, its hearing a story you already heard, and slowly grinding resources to get slightly more damage and better boons. Please do more reviews.
More Frost? Yes please. I love your writing and presentation style. Its an excellent contrast to Yahtzee's fire and speed. A cool, mellow wordplay-filled video as smooth as that 18 year old single malt i have for special occasions.
Real red oni blue oni here and i'm for it.
Definitely start a review piece Frost, we love listening to your perspectives!
Frost, I'd love to hear more reviews from you, but It should probably be a separate series, so from the title I know what I'm getting into.
"Freeze Frame" maybe? Since you are really good at zeroing in on a few game features, exploding the understanding of how they fit into the greater puzzle, along with the "It's this not that that you actually adore here" which has taken me by surprise as being right more times than I'd like to admit.
My hat is off to you. More Frost content makes this particular view happy. You unique laser focus really chills every time it's unleashed.
And a welcomed fresh change of pace from Yahtzee's unending deluge. I like bouncing back and forth between the slower and faster paced content from this crew.
This feels like the antithesis to yahtzee's ramblomatic, and they compliment each other fabulously I could listen to Yatz first then absorb a more reflective delivery game after game and never get bored.
This was fantastic, start to finish. Deeply enjoying cold take, and would certainly love to hear reviews like this if you've got the interest.
You're a phenomenal reviewer. Please keep doing em
Would personally enjoy getting both a Fully Ramblomatic and a Cold Take review when Hades 2 comes out. Makes sense to not both cover new games all the time, but I can't imagine it would hurt anything to do that occasionally
Frost this is a beautiful piece man 🙏 Fully captures most of my feelings about this game 🥃 For a long while I kept meaning to go back and "finish" it, just couldn't suffer the grind anymore even though it's gorgeous to look at and lovely on the ears. Keep making what you wanna make man, I'll keep watching😊 Cheers!🍻
I'm right here with you. A game like Isaac or Gungeon keeps me coming back because the "grind" is unlocking more wackiness. Hades is a good game but I really get bored of the grind to it.
@@mandradon Still want to play Isaac - only have a switch and I think I missed the sale. Dropped Gungeon right after I rolled credits but I could go back and see about the rest of the story. The grind wasn't all that bad in Gungeon either, I just wanted a different flavor of game. Currently playing through the additional campaigns in Darksiders II 😁
The fact that you can’t get completely broken in Hades is something I realize I was also missing. I don’t need every run to be crazy but I love Risk of Rain runs that start killing the frame rate and reach a point where you are just sprinting at the speed out sound as everything on the screen dies in a sea of electricity and ghost knives.
You can absolutely get broken runs in Hades. I just had a run where my dashes alone could slam enemies into the wall where they would blow up, get slammed into a different wall and blow up again, etc. etc. It made the stage before the final boss literally a walk (or sprint) in the park. You just need to find good synergies for your boons.
Yeah, there’s a few very lucky combos where things can go juuuuuust right and you breeze through it all, but compared to games like Slay the Spire, its so much more rare to really feel that insanely-OP in a run, and it requires a ton more luck than actual game knowledge or skill.
Absolutely, I want roguelikes where the power of the various combinations is so high that you get overpowered somewhat frequently, and on some rare occasions get so ridiculous that hitting the attack button once crashes the game.
It feels like SG really wanted to telegraph where the stronger builds were with the Duo and Legendary boons. But, they ended up putting too much scarcity in place, and then overshot sanding down the edges.
It caused the intended power combos to be slog to pursue. It also doesn't help that several of them are just traps that only sound good on paper. Either, because the combo was never fully realized by the dev team, or the probability of the stars aligning was way too small.
I mean, it DOES feel really good when everything falls into place, you've got 2x the Crystal Beams, they're homing like turrets, and everything is constantly debuffed and exploding. But, in my entire story playthrough, that kind of thing only really happened by accident or intuition a few times. Most of the time, it was underwhelming.
What actually got me through the biggest difficulty spike I encountered was looking up high-level players on UA-cam. After a few videos, I could comfortably walk away and do the build-craft myself. Which is totally fine for me; but, I don't imagine it feels great to folks that don't enjoy recreational math.
slay the spire and hades were my first foray into the roguelike/lite genre and I think the fact that you can't get absolutely broken is what I like about these games. To me, that means every run is still a challenge no matter what you do, since your build alone won't necessarily carry you. I spent a lot of time over the past year playing Vampire Survivors and while I liked it, I stopped short of unlocking every character after I got every achievement and beat the main story, unlike with Hades or Slay the Spire where I spent 100s of hours going for max unlocks and achievements. And in retrospect, it's because builds in VS can get so broken as to carry you through even the hardest levels even before unlocking everything so to me, it felt kind of pointless investing more time into it. It wasn't changing my capacity to win or my playstyle. Though I do get how people can feel like the broken builds are a necessary reward for their efforts.
The solution to the mirror problem is simple: don't just spend your darkness the second you have it, wait a couple runs in a row until you can dump in for more rewards at once and the impact is a lot more tangible. In the meantime, the several runs you do while farming feel different enough if you swap around boons and weapons.
By the time you're going up and up in heat, it's more about turning on or off your mirror boons or swapping them out for the other side to suit the playstyle. Once they're all unlocked they aren't just static power buffs- you can either tune them based on what your hopeful build would want, or you can trade them in for more heat.
this is a great review! I'm a massive fan of Hades and the studio, but definitely see where you're coming from.
One thing I'd say is that the way the boons/blessings can synergise to an absolutely ungodly set of damage on a run is half the fun and definitely something that isn't covered here (i.e. if you have x boon from Demeter and y boon from Artemis, you can start picking up/expanding on a kind of combined-front boon set that, for that mix, heals, as an example). Finding the different synergies is one of the things I found really fun as I was at the height of playing a lot of it, because experimenting with the RNG-options, particularly when the different weapon forms kick in, made for a lot of variety
The glass half full description you gave is perfect to describe how i love the game so much, and cooled my hot jets after you mentioned your most badass run in Hades only felt like getting 2 pennies. Because i've 100%'d all of the keepsakes, all the weapon aspects, the mirror, and the little Minor Prophecies list, it feels like almost every run can be as powerful as i want it to be just by manipulating the odds and choosing the right path. But maybe that's also part of the problem you're talking about, that as a roguelike it really doesn't do a whole lot to distinguish each run from each other. It's up to the player to swap out their weapons, their keepsakes, to pick different boons than they usually do. Each dungeon always has the same number of rooms, there's a limited number of room designs that are just randomly arranged after one another, with some slightly fancy decision making to make sure this room is always one of the first, that one's usually one of the last, etc etc. Its a roguelike that you can feel like you've mastered on some level because once you have grinded enough, you can make every run whatever you want it to be, excepting for just getting unlucky on what boons pop up (which can be mitigated to an extent by swapping out keepsakes between dungeons to try and gurantee the god you want appears). Its a roguelike that becomes less rogue-like the longer you play it.
The best part about starting fresh: You set the rules. If you want to mix in some reviews with your more thinkpiecey stuff, I certainly shall not discourage you. I joined to support you guys setting out on your own, whatever that means.
Good format and I like the perspectives mentioned towards the end for future videos.
Honestly, I'd be down to reviews from you as well, you have that eye for critique and are able to articulate your reasoning behind your opinion.
As a whole, the entire channel is really putting out great content between the ramblematics, the dev deep dives and cold take. This is good stuff. I really appreciate the fact that you guys put this stuff out there on UA-cam where you don't really get a good monetization on it and I am ever so thankful that people are supporting you.
I put hundreds of hours into risk of rain, roboquest, isaac, slay the spire and others, but I could never, for the life of me, finish Hades.
I loved the characters, the writing, and the art, but this wasn't a game for me. It's the first time I've heard someone express the same feeling I had in such a coherent way.
Great video, looking forward to more reviews.
I still love Hades - both its narrative and gameplay - but listening to your review made me really think about the gameplay more, and I think you have a point. Incremental damage increases _are_ pretty vanilla, and it's possible that the narrative carried the game much more than I realised, especially since it's basically the same gameplay as Bastion and Transistor.
I'm looking forward to any reviews you decide to do in the future, Frost!
Love Hades, one of my favorite roguelites. Great storytelling, music, art, gameplay and it really made me want to complete it. Still probably gonna come back to it even after I got the platinum.
Frost shines with writing and delivery. Like many others, I don't care if he uses those skill in an industry analysis or in a game review. Write whatever you want man, we are here for it
I loved the Glass half full + glass half empty "takes" as context for a non scored review... keep to what you said at the end: no expectations but you're considering it here and there. I love what you all are doing. please do more at the pace that benefits you.
"A wide range of feedback skews everything to average... grow a spine, stick to your guns..."
"Let me know in the comments... I'll let you all decide"
Frost, absolutely the fuck do not let us all decide
I enjoyed the review and am happy to see you branch out from Cold Take to do other things you like.
Frost, you should definitely do more reviews. Besides that excellent voice, you have an engaging way with words. How you describe not just the game itself but how it *feels* to play it helps paint a full picture of what to expect from it. In fact, this review had me adding Hades I & II to my steam wishlist!
Love the review, keep em coming along with your think pieces please 😊
The resource grind isnt all that bad. Most resources can be traded in for one another so if youre really trying to focus Titan Blood for weapon unlocks or Ambrosia to max out approval you can choose to convert and do that faster rather than amassing quantities of each resource more generally
The grind did eventually hit a point where I wasn't seeing new dialogue anymore, and I don't mean to brag, but I'm pretty decent at Hades. It could've been a lot longer.
I'm discovering I enjoy a grind sometimes, but that bag of tricks they designed with the dialogue in Hades is so cool that I consider it a minor failure that the game didn't QUITE have enough of it to fill out its entire runtime.
It's not like I was grinding out all the decorations, either. Just the relationships I cared about and the weapons, really.
@@CJWproductions Yeah either that or the game just should have been a bit shorter.
Pretty sure the world in general needs as much of that smooth buttery voice of yours as is physically possible.
I’m certainly not going to pass on a review or two.
"they're a dom when it comes to art direction, but a sub when it comes to gameplay"
you magnificent bastard 😂
No lie detected tho
I love cold take. You do a great job presenting your opinions and views. It comes from someone who's experienced in the industry and it shows. You make videos on whatever you want to talk about and I'll watch them.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed this and it gave me a new perspective on a game I loved. Hades was my first and pretty much only rogue like, and I loved it for precisely the aspects Frost describes. I never thought much about the gameplay independent of the narrative.
Fantastic review Frost. I would definitely love to hear some more from you. You have a unique spin that I'm happy to go for a ride with.
Loved it, please do more. I love your writing and Yatzee's writing and both provide a different experience, so even if you did review the same game I would watch both! Please keep it coming!
For some reason, I’m the type of person that can’t hear or read negative reviews or opinions about the things I love, it almost feels like they’re insulting me for liking the thing being reviewed. And Hades is one of my favorite games ever, but you managed to strike a delicate balance here so I applaud you. It didn’t feel hateful or condescending but just…critical. That is a rare thing to encounter on this site and so it definitely earned a subscription. Thanks!
I wish more people had this kind of self-awareness.
I absolutely love this game and ended up replaying it a lot last year. Was hoping to beat it again before hades 2 comes out but I’ve got a dissertation to write. Hopefully I’ll be done before the hades 2 beta starts
I feel that dissertation writing comes first. I finished mine last year around the beginning of June. My goal was to be done before Tears of the Kingdom came out. I unfortunately forgot that my committee/reviews did not have that same time crunch schedule and ended up not being able to defend until June 5th. It was killing me seeing all the crazy stuff coming out of that game for like 2 weeks before I could play it. I had my husband download it while I was defending so I could literally get home, and it would be there on the switch ready for me.
Protip 1, do your literature review last and start with your research sections first (if you are research based). Chances are that you have pretty much already written these as papers and all you need to do is adjust the format and page numbers. It really helps to break the glass and start the writing process. It also prevents you from going on very deep rabbit holes in the literature as normally you are in a time crunch at this point and just want to get it done.
Protip 2, schedule your public defense (if that is how your uni does it) later in the afternoon. Mine ended up being around 2:30pm due to committee member schedules (not on my end) and it was an hour-long presentation with questions at the end, so defense didn't start until 3:45ish. Turns out, they don't want to be there past 5pm if they can help it and my argument only took about 30-45 minutes and their deliberation was approximately 5 minutes. I will also say that my committee was very involved with my research (infectious disease if that matters) and I had semi-annual updates with all of them so at the end they were pretty much up to speed on everything, and any issues were already addressed months prior. Most of the arguments were about what journal they wanted to publish in.
I love this. Your "review" still feels like a cold take and approaches the discussion in a unique perspective. I'd be very excited to see more of these types of videos in the future
Think all his videos are great!
Genuinely think I'd get enjoyment from just hearing him read out a chinese takeout menu that voice is just so damn smooth
So looking forward to anything Frost is writing or reviewing in the future 👍🏻
genuinely amazing review. I love how much you packed in without wasting a word and had a very nuanced perspective. also very funny and witty, I really want more.
That opening is blazing. Fantastic start.
Damn, you perfectly described my experience with the game.
I managed to stick with it for longer, got all the aspects and concluded the story of all the NPCs and the overarching narrative of the post game.
Really was just a matter of playing it, beating it and putting it away on good terms.
Not feeling too compelled to get back given that I know I won't get any run that's too exciting.
You absolutely hit the nail on the head with everything wrong with it as well.
Looking forward to hearing your take on games. You are knowledgeable, thoughtful, experienced and your communication skills are top notch.
I remember when I played this. I was loving the story but I hit a point where I was making very small progress each run and the story had essentially pressed pause to wait for me to get far enough to continue. I had to switch on the extra defense option just so I didn't burn out. But once I finally made my first successful run, I was hooked and finished everything after that. Didn't do any of the challenges but I left satisfied.
Also, you do you man. If you wanna do reviews while continuing Cold Take, go for it!
Hades is the only roguelike I've ever played, but I love it. I still play my first save slot because I STILL find new little things popping up as I complete. And honestly I think the easy mode is necessary, I'm not great with games that are too hard because frustration isn't fun and fighting strategy is not my strong suit. Having an easy mode helped me stay with it and make it one of my absolute fav games.
You should play more games in the space, hades gameplay is trash.
@@ringworld251 Skill issue
as someone currently deep enough in the throes of a Hades kick to have actually near-100%'d the game (unlocking the last of the achievements, unlocking all the ~fancy statues~, maxing out upgrades), i'd say it's a pretty fair assessment. it's like, as great as the art direction is, and as much fun as i'm having now, i can see why i dropped off of this and went back to binding of isaac again after some time.
Seriously impressed with this video. The editing, the noir tone and dry sarcastic humor. Not familiar with this chap from the old channel, but I think I found my new favorite series. Well done, sir. Well done.
I LOVE your smooth, cool, noir detective delivery. I burned through all your videos this afternoon. I'd listen to anything you wanted to present me, so long as it's this slick.
“A bad grind ruins knives, lap dances, and video games”
I dunno, I completed all the story sections of Hades two years ago, but I still find myself going back every so often for a few runs. There are still some work orders I haven’t unlocked, or weapons I haven’t fully upgraded, which is an excuse to keep playing. And since a run at this point can take 25-30 minutes it’s easy to drop in and out of. Hades has become a forever game for me.
Do a mix of reviews and cold takes. I would rather have more thought out and spaced apart Cold Takes then having you burn out on them. Hearing opinons on games is always helpful in determining what to play next. Everyone at 2W has different approaches to games and what they like. I find my tastes align more with some than with others. So having multiple review shows (and not just streams, although I like those as well) would be nice.
Maybe it’s because I’m a narrative player first, but I never understood why people insist on replayability. I cried over my experience in Hades but never picked it up after I finished the full story because once the story is over I don’t want to spend hours revolving like a sad load of laundry after the wash cycle is done in a game whose story has ended. And stories do end. That is a requirement of the narrative part of games, and why would I want it to never end? Once I’ve played one game there are thousands of other worthy games out there waiting for me to play them, and they deserve a chance too. I’ll keep Hades in a privileged place on my shelf so that in ten years when I get nostalgic I can pick it up again and experience it all over again, but then I’ll start from scratch.
Part of what I also liked about hades it that it rewarded lazy players, and I am nothing if not a lazy player. I will explore every last inch of an EldenRing-sized game to get all the goodies and know everything there is to know about that world, but I have no compunctions about cheesing the best and easiest strategy to get there. I get little satisfaction out of the grind regardless. I do it for the narrative, and if that narrative is good enough yes I will spend hours grinding and getting gud and doing all the things that a Gud Gamer is supposed to do to be Gud. But Hades saw me cheesing and said “here. Have more cheese. You seem to like it.” And I appreciate that.
HOLY SHIT IT’S FROST! My favorite smite tuber is here of all places?! 🎉🎉🎉
Where else would he be?
Yes to reviews! Never was aware of your content before Second Wind but now that I’ve heard how your brain works I just want more of it. Keep up the good, mah boy!
I love your writing, friend. I appreciate your leveled willingness to talk about what doesnt spark joy in a title that is well regarded like Hades.
So yes. To answer your question I’d be open to more reviews among the cold takes.
If you like what you make then thats the stuff I wanna see.
i don't know if i should be scared going into this
Im absolutely loving the stuff y'all here at Second wind are doing, absolutely great stuff.
Hard disagree on your balance take. It's a perfect setup for new players, especially those new to the genre: you start off earning Darkness to make the game easier while you learn how to play. Reduce damage, get more money, increase health, etc. Then you beat the game and it hits you with a new menu that says "hey kid, you wanna try getting GOOD at this game?" This isn't something to complain about, this is literally just how human progression works when it comes to engaging in any kind of skill. You start off sucking at it, so you do things to make it easier; then you get good enough to start intentionally making the thing HARDER, because you are now in a place to seek a challenge.
Loved the review! It has enough of the industry introspection we love from Cold Take, while still getting your remarkably balanced thoughts on the title.
HeyFrostGreatVideoIWasJustWonderingWhereYouNeededToBeAfterRecordingThisNoHateTheVoiceoverFeltALittleRushedThatsAllMuchLove
This was fantastic. It was beautifully written, cleverly delivered, and thoughtfully researched. Please do more.
The review format is great. I’m a relatively recent Cold Take viewer but your perspective offers something fresh and fun to the available content.
I really enjoyed how your review didn't simply look at the game in a vacuum, but added lots of context and looked at the game both within the supergiant catalogue as well as related genres, so this felt like a different kind of review than fully ramblomatic and I would be quite happy to see more reviews from you, esp for older titles where you can bring in more info and kind of center it within its place in the industry with the benefit of hindsight. it feels kinda like an extension of your (way more thoroughly, I'm sure, but) also researched cold take cases
Wow, you absolutely nailed my feelings that I couldn't pin down. I'm a massive Risk of Rain 2 fan and I just couldn't get into this. None of it felt bad, it just all felt polished to the point of almost losing its sense of combat variety. It was so balanced that nothing felt OP once I achieved it, but RoR2 embraces the insanity that can be caused by a broken build. In Hades I felt either almost strong or just strong enough, and I kept waiting for that run that just exploded, but it never came.
I love the idea of Hades, and I'll probably try it again for about 3 runs before moving on. Bummer.
Very fair take on the game. As someone who doesn't particularly want to do the broken build rogue-like thing, I enjoy the balanced grind-iness of the game. I was in it more for the story and presentation than the varied gameplay, so it's fine for me.
love the format and tone of these videos. keep doing these. One of my new favourite youtube videos. I will be subscirbing to the Patron when next paid.
If it means you'll speak into a microphone please do anything you want. Your voice is the equivalent of of that button in Hades that lets you pet Cerberus- it's just feels good and makes me appreciate everything around it all the more.
Criticizes company for listening to what fans wanted and not sticking to their guns. Then proceeds to ask fans if they like the new format or if it should go away even though he misses reviews.
I’m here for any and all content you guys put out. Love the review. Everything is always S-tier gaming content.
It's refreshing to see someone who shares opinions about Hades gameplay, with the only exception I can think of being that Artemis is one of the more helpful gods because you can actually feel the impact of a crit.
tbh the writing and voice acting was what allowed me to finish the game. I was getting really bored with the combat and grind long before finishing tue main story.
I always love seeing how the topics discussed in the podcasts reflect the videos.
This review is absolutely superb. Truly a breath of fresh air in the gaming review space. Also, as others have said, your style is the perfect compliment to Yahtzee's hot fire blitz. I sincerely hope there's room for more Cold Take game reviews.
If Cold Take reviews are this distinctive, eloquent and insightful, then yes please to Cold Take reviews.
For what it's worth, I like your reviews A LOT! Your style of breakdown on mechanics and story is stellar, but your ending "glass half-full and glass half-empty" final takes were so cool to see two perspectives on Hades, and I look forward to seeing that applied to future games!
This was a great review, your voice and presentation is great that you could cover whatever and I'd enjoy it!
Loved the review. Your voice is wonderful to listen to on any topic, and you make a lot of good points about the variety (or lack thereof) across many runs.
I think the reason I don't share that opinion is that Hades greatly rewards success. If you pick up the game systems quickly, you get lots of treasure that feels like you're advancing quickly. If you get stuck dying to Megaera repeatedly, you get less resources to progress, which feels bad
Funny enough the grind alot of people hate is one thing that keep bringing me back to this game lol. I love nothing more than getting high, listening to some music and killing shades for 6 hours lol
This was utterly brilliant!
And I definitely want more reviews. And I like the sound of reviewing classic older games. An introduction for those who didn't play them at the time, and a nostalgic revisiting for those who did
I enjoyed this video series and you have a good voice. Would love for this to continue.
I'm still not entirely sure what games you're into/would like to talk about but I'll keep watching and eventually come up with something I'm sure.
I really appreciated your take on this, Frost! I support you reviewing games if it suits your fancy
Yo, I really liked this. As someone who often doesn’t pick up games day one and just got into hades I liked seeing this come across my feed. More please!
Personally I prefer the original Cold Take format better than when it transferred to Second Wind.
It was a minimalist series, carried almost solely by Frost's voice, writing and explanations of and opinions on some touchy subjects.
It was pure suave, not diluted by any fancy production gimmicks.
No fancy edits or live footage, no silly sun-shaded ice cube avatar to display Frost's emotions.
I'm not completely turned off by it, but you asked for my opinion so here it is.
I'll like and watch Frost's series nonetheless, no matter what direction he decides to take it in.
I just wanted to give my 2 cents.
I have a good time listening to you guys do pretty much whatever, if more review takes are good for your work flow and creativity I'll be here for them.
I'm really digging cold take. I enjoy your feel and take. Feels very authentic.
This sort of review I adore, and feels likes a breath of fresh air in the reviewer space. I'd love more.