This episode is out early on Patreon, ad-free and with all of Jon's profanity uncensored. Support us for just $5 a month to keep the content coming -- www.patreon.com/realones
@@whiskeyomega yes but then there is no reason for patreon. What is odd is how different channels conduct themselves Good Mythical Morning is one of the largest and never swear (fine) but also won't consume alcohol, and will substitute it for other things if any vid they are doing calls for alcohol. You might think, well that's personal preference, as their filming times can be weird times apparently. But I do recall one ep one of them saying something similar to "No, we can't consume that on the channel." and stating a vague reason while talking about an alcoholic product. Yet other channels have grown large while consuming alcohol ("Cold Ones" of Australia is a notable one) So.. GMM dont have patreon but they have their own websites and host every 6 months or so a live unedited "adult" show with the drinking, swearing etc. I think its just marketing to keep things PG. its not needed. Cold ones Drink, swear and go crazy on youtube, but then have a patreon where its... very unhinged footage. lol
I love how much Deborah Ann Woll comes alive when dropping into DM mode! So vibrant and keen. I first played D&D in the late 70s as a child and I love seeing my tribe succeed!
She did really well in the show True Blood. And being a sexy vampire and a bad ass. Anyway ya she’s a great actress and she also good in the daredevil show. And the new blood coming out something was missing from the Netflix version.
She just made millions fall for her too ❤ There's something profoundly poignant with vulnerability behind so much beauty. (As opposed to snobbish pride etc)
IMO probably the most difficult part of writing to do well is to make good characters. Make them unique, likable, sympathetic and most importantly make them struggle. All of which are completely bypassed in D&D because you are building a world and conflict and the players are doing the character writing.
@@DivusMagusyeah but that’s not the only part of story telling. You also have to build the world, and these stories your characters have to go through. All parts of writing and story telling require effort and skill. The way she was imminently able to create this immersive and vivid image of a dnd scenario off the top her head takes good storytelling.
@@Mr.Murasakino oh I didn't intend to diminish her talents. But just wanted to say why someone who might struggle with normal writing can still be good at creating D&D games.
This interview DEVASTATED ME. The profound human nature, kindness and relatability of Deb’s vibe is HAUNTING. I guarantee her story will resonate with a TON of marginalized people. She just made every one of them feel seen.❤️ Good on Jon for gently pulling this out.😩
I definitely connected with her experiences as a kid. I just wanted to be friendly and everyone took my kindness as weakness and made me pay for it from Kindergarten to 11th grade. I went to my 25 year HS reunion and they told me how smart, nice and helpful I was. My internal reaction was, Why did you all punish me for being those things.
Couldn't agree more, sat here crying my eyes out and I'm only 39mins in... Everything Deb says just resonates so much with me. I think she just became one of my favourite people to watch and listen to.
The way Jon lights up when Deborah speaks so passionately about D&D and how curious he is about it is amazing to see. It feels so authentic and encouraging and you can tell he loves that he can make her feel safe about talking about something she obviously loves and has a passion for.
I love how she says she’s not a good story teller and then she goes off on her DnD thing. Girl you need to seriously question every negative thing you think about yourself and show yourself the same compassion you show others! Self love is everything.
This is it. I was bullied relentlessly and lived with those experiences as proof in some way I was less than, and through those filters streamed the thoughts I was using to protect myself. The bullies didn't know who I was, no one did, and I'm no longer in need of that protection. After years of therapy it helped to accept what the bullies did to me wasn't personal. Those thoughts seem real, however they developed from a time and place which is no longer present, except for when I make it so. After years of therapy it helped to accept it wasn't personal. If my thoughts aren't self-compassion, it's dubious, the weather. I can observe the weather while standing within it. A little neutral detachment goes a long way when dealing with one's self.
This is true, but sadly hard to learn. To do this you need to break the cycle. Treat yourself like you treat your friends. Don't yell at your friend. Don't put them down when they fail. Don't shake your head at their attempts at success. Be patient. Be there for your friend. Lend them a hand and have a heart for them. It works, even if you might slip up a few times, but it does work.
So true. There's a lot of deep rooted things she had to face and endure to emerge as herself. It's like the every rose has its thorns issue. But I certainly hope she works through it too for herself so it is fully realized within herself and it unleashes a new mindset. It is such a battle with the flesh in that regard sometimes but she is proving 12-year old Deb right day by day along her storytelling gifts. I hope she will be as detailed with self-love and confidence as she is with defining and refining the details of her characters personalities when acting.
I wish I could just hug her…. I love how real and honest she is. Like soooo just vocal on her emotions and the trauma she had. She is so beautiful. I hope she is seen and validated in just how amazing her work and who she is..
It’s a huge testament to Deborah’s strength that she hasn’t allowed this brutal, raggedy-ass industry to destroy her spirit. She’s very sensitive to her own emotions as well as others, and I think that’s really beautiful. 💜
It's part of why she isn't a part of this sort of dark echelon of prestige in the industry and is the girl doing dishes. She isn't soulless or trained in what the snooty in crowd expects of the elite
Man.. Hearing her cry while saying she believes she is undesirable really fucking hurt me deep. I feel so relatable in that aspect.. I also remember my bully's first and last name. :(
I'm sorry that happened to you. You're not alone. And you're a stronger person for enduring and overcoming that experience than anyone who feels like they need to bully someone to feel better.
man i remember bullying this kid when i was in 6th grade, i was 11 and this kid was a nerdy chubby kid. i never really like said anything too crazy to him and i never physically bullied him but i would just mess with him to get a laugh. he always took it well so i remember thinking oh okay this is just our dynamic, i roast him and he takes it. i had never been bullied and i had never bullied anyone else before or after that but one day someone overheard him saying he was gonna get his dads gun and shoot me. so rumor went around, he got kicked out of school, ended up moving away and nothing happened to me. once he said that it was if he was at fault and not me. i remember after that seeing how serious it was and i’m 29 years old now and still think about this from time to time and it hurts knowing i did that to him and gave him a negative experience in school at that time. idk what happened with him after that but i just have tremendous guilt about that. it was disgusting and after that i would stand up for kids being bullied but it never made up for what i did in my mind…
@@wh1skeybudI’d say as long as you can admit to it and learn something positive from it, then that’s all you can do. It seems like you’re doing a good job
Deborah's insecurities while a burden are also her superpower, it formed her into an empathetic, highly aware and endearing person of a comforting intelligence. As far as desirability she is higher than she could ever know and is a very memorable actor in mostly every scene she is in. I can relate to a lot of her struggles and I have an even deeper respect for her after this podcast, great job on this one Jon.
@@redhat4363i reckon she does, i feel she showed she aware she was of it during this beautiful and vulnerable talk - but, from my own experience, when it's that ingrained in your psyche, it feels like a sisyphian task to see past it. therapy and affirmation helps a lot, but there's always that damn nagging imposter feeling
@@redhat4363 ah, if it was merely about awareness and intent... this kind of stuff makes you who you are on a deeper level. Our mind writes itself a certain way in order to protect itself and keep functioning. In order to understand that you don't have to live in fear you need to unlearn a lot of the lessons your life taught you, which have become unhelpful. And un-learning stuff is a lot harder than learning something new. And for a lot of people the only way forward is the dissolution of ego and everything that has been associated with it.
@@redhat4363 So...there's a difference between intellectually knowing that you're too anxious and KNOWING, and more importantly...BELIEVING. When you've been hurt so deeply in your formative years on some level it just never goes away. It becomes formative...both good and bad. And one thing you realize is that many, many people never grow beyond the limited mindset of being bullies, even as adults. Adult life in many ways is just High School politics writ large.
@@redhat4363I think you believe that kind of statement is helpful but it's actually hurtful. You can't tell someone to 'stop' anxiety but you can be empathetic and listen. It would be a worthy exercise for you to just listen to her instead of waiting for another chance to tell her she's wrong and should be this/that. Anxiety stricken people feel very alone when faced with this, and she does a pretty good job explaining it.
On comparing your childhood struggles with other people's "bigger" or "real" traumas -- I once interviewed a women who had been in the foster system, homeless, abusive relationships, drug addiction, all of that. She still teared up remembering something mean a teacher said to her in grade school. Those things aren't small, even if they aren't life and death.
This - I honestly probably don't remember much of what I learned in grade school, but I have vivid memories of a moments of feeling excluded/insulted etc.
This is literally the greatest interview I have ever seen. At least in terms of celebrity, actor, or artist, rather than historian, political leader or activist, etc.
Deborah: "That's why you're great, and why I'm not yet" John: "What the F*ck are you talking about?" I loved this. This was fabulous. Love you both. ❤❤❤
Deborah Ann Woll is beautiful, and her acting is equally stunning. I’ve always been in awe of her talent. This interview just makes me love her even more because she’s also incredibly relatable. The way she describes her youth and being a non-threatening, easy target is how my son felt in school. Adults have always loved him and heaped praise on him, but being shy and quiet, classmates often pushed him around or made him feel like he wasn’t valued. He just graduated high school, and I’m hopeful he feels valued in college and beyond. 💛
sorry to hear what your son is going through. That being said, it never hurts for a boy to toughen up, my colleague sent his son to learn wrestling and rock climbing. Rock climbing stuck and it builds both strength and determination. Learning to do physicaly difficult things is one of the best ways to build grit and determination.
@@adamcrookedsmile first, thank you. 🙏 He does gymnastics and plays basketball. When he was younger he also played baseball and took taekwondo. He does photography. He loves public speaking. He plays guitar and is learning piano. He graduated summa cum laude. He works at a ninja warrior and parkour gym. He makes lists of goals and almost always accomplishes them by his self-imposed deadline. He’s a really well rounded kid. He is also quiet and shy, compassionate and empathetic. He has a good heart, and I hope that never changes. You may not have intended for your comment to suggest he is weak or in some way at fault for kids his age seeing his kindness as a green light to take him for granted or walk all over him. But a suggestion like yours can come across that way.
He will have a blast in his adult life and will be happy to have all these skills and own confidence. In any doubt, he can read the peaceful warrior or watch on UA-cam the one with nick nolte
Jon is such a good interviewer. He is willing to go to the gritty places that make things uncomfortable, but also willing to be vulnerable in those places. That’s what makes people feel safe enough to open up themselves.
I've played Dungeons & Dragons for over 40 years, running games as the Dungeon Master for most of that. And this is, hands down, the best way I've seen to show someone who's never played what the game is like. Deborah is a great actress and a fantastic story teller.
Christ... I have never related to ANYONE, let alone any celebrity, more than I relate to Deborah. Thank you SO much for telling your truth. I feel like I could literally show this to my therapist and be like - "THIS"
Truly. She asked him 4 questioned and bro got hooked. Holding his bow ready. Asking questions in response. John would make a great d&d player. Would love to see him on a d&d show.
1:23:19 Deborah I’m sure you’ve heard this 1 million times. But you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Send in your audition, who cares about the embarrassment you got this shit girl. You and John are lifting up so many people right now but this one interview and we want to just give back to you by telling you guys pursue your dreams and be like John and both of you keep swinging for the fences.
1:23:19 Deborah I’m sure you’ve heard this 1 million times. But you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Send in your audition, who cares about the embarrassment you got this shit girl. You and John are lifting up so many people right now but this one interview and we want to just give back to you by telling you guys pursue your dreams and be like John and both of you keep swinging for the fences.
Same! She is absolutely captivating! I also have to add that I never in a million years would have thought that Jon Bernthal is hands down one of the best interviewers and conversationalists that I have ever come across. Instantly subscribed and this was the first podcast of his that I ever clicked on.
OMG. I just want to hug her! You can see John's heart breaking for Deborah (as all our hearts did). Her story connects and mirrors the life of so many other people's experience. Ugh! I'm happy she can tell her story and, hopefully, give others a voice.
Watching this was like therapy. Deborah is so real and vulnerable and wholesome. And Jon Bernthal is a good dude and so kind. When I'm depressed, this is what I'll watch to feel better.
37:37 can someone PLEASE let her really know, feel how much the fans love her, and how much her PERSON inspires other women? I didn't know anything about her story before this, and could already feel like she is a real human, and now, knowing that she is also one of us, that have been carrying trauma since adolescence, 'cause of some mean kids... And what a road you've been in! Girl, you're amazing, and such an inspiration.
i love her so much. She's so beautiful inside snd out. i relate to her because i also was bullied in middle school. it basically took half of my 20s to get over those thoughts and insecurities. It pains me to see Deb still fighting those feelings. And beign in Hollywood probably isn't helping.
Even as a guy she’s very inspiring and brutally relatable as someone that has their own mental struggles. She represents what is possible when you actively work on yourself and pursue your passions despite your insecurities and fears holding you back.
As a man who dealt with some similar things (though in my case it was more alienation than bullying), I'd say she's inspiring to all of us. She's so lovely inside and out, it hurts me that she still seems to carry that hurt.
This is so utterly heartbreaking. And I feel so seen in her words. She is, so transparently, such a remarkable, intelligent, kind, and beautiful person. Vulnerability is a superpower so abused by the cowards of our culture that are afraid to feel. She deserves better. She's a star. She shines in everything she is in. We see you Deb!
Absolutely It's so lovely to see the two soulmates on screen talk like real soulmates/buddies. I guess that was not much acting as Karen. Deborah is just as sensitive and teary-eyed in person 😊
Honestly, I feel wrong to be shipping Frank and Karen more than her and Matt. Probably because the way Karen is able to tame the anger in Frank, and try and call out people who call Frank a monster.
Jon is so easy going, and I always feel like he's not interviewing anyone, but just having a talk with a friend or new friend. Deborah is a true joy and I love her now as I do her talent.
I came here after the d&d bit went viral so I was completely unprepared for when she talks about being bullied in school and my heart just got shattered for her
Came here from another video where just the D&D part is highlighted. The raw honesty and emotion in this discussion is stunning. My estimation of both of these fine actors/acting industry figures has skyrocketed. The strength it takes to do this is... well. I'm amazed.
Jon or somebody, I need you to tell Deb that her opening up like this made a significant, meaningful difference for at least one life. I need her to know that somebody who shares most of the traumas and insecurities found the strength and comfort in her words to get up again and try to be better, to turn things around. Honestly can't express how much this meant. Thank you so much for this.
I haven’t even gotten to half of the video, but I’ve already had to pause multiple times in order to really digest the fact that she described so many feelings I hadn’t been able to put into words yet. The validation she has made me feel by being so vulnerable is just… huge. It took a weight out of my shoulders to know that I’m not alone, my experience was valid and it still is. I already loved Deborah but I never even imagined we would have so many experiences and feelings in common, I know she’s probably not going to see this but I’m truly grateful because her words came in the exact moment I needed them and I feel it has caused a big shift in the way I perceive myself.
100000% - There are a dozen things she said over the course of this conversation that hit incredibly close to home. The one comment that stood out most to me "I was taught at that age to fear how people feel about me." This emotion (both real and perceived) is life altering - I have never heard someone perfectly encapsulate that emotion in single sentence. Amazing stuff and she has all of my respect!
Man, hearing Deborah speak about her fear and insecurity really broke me. She's so obviously talented and beautiful and intelligent and it is so sad that she cannot see in herself what all of us see in her. I hope she knows that this kind of honesty and vulnerability is a superpower. This interview is going to help so many people. Bravo Jon and Deborah.
I hope she knows that virtually everyone deeply loved her on those Netflix marvel shows cause she was absolutely awesome and felt like a truly relatable REAL person and she absolutely was one of my favorite part of every episodes she was in. Also, we all absolutely hope to see more DND from her. Relics and rarities was totally amazing.
“This is a very sacred relationship to me” was such a parallel for Frank & Karen to me. I really enjoyed watching this, you two are crazy insightful and smart ❤
Big credit to Jon for this conversation. What a gift this is. Deborah is a stone cold talent in her own right. Criminally underexposed and one of the best things Disney did with this series was bring her and the original cast back to the story, as cannon. Deborah in particular deserves the work and more than deserves the exposure. Thank you, Jon, and this was a great conversation. And to Deborah: onwards and upwards!
Deborah saying “I wanted to play make believe in the schoolyard forever” is so incredibly poetic and so sad, but it’s so true. I’ve felt this way about my music for the longest time. I have not been this invested and even emotional over a podcast EVER, I couldn’t help but cry along with Deborah when she spoke about her 12 year old self, being “too nice” and being a doormat for people is indeed a survival instinct, I had to go to therapy for that along with other situations that happened in my past. I’m glad she’s so open and vulnerable to talk about it and it only makes me adore and relate to her even more. 💛
Jon might not be the most polished interviewer but he really does a great job of asking the right questions and giving his guests the space to not only answer that question but to go off on a tangent if it provides more insight. This was a great interview.
Can I just say, as someone who has been playing DnD since 2019…. And still struggle on how to explain it… That has to be THE best introduction to the game ever. Please please Deb you HAVE to organize a game where Jon is playing (and other friends sure) and let us see it 🙏🏻💜 it would be so much fun
I love the scenes between Karen and the Punisher... Specially that one in the hospital, if you know you know. They both did a great job playing that part.
This is probably the best podcast there is on the internet, and its name couldnt be more fitting to it. Amazing job from Jon and his team for bringins us such a humane vision of Hollywood.
Deborah's confidence here is unreal. So confident in being honest with herself and others, confident in knowing who she is, confident in being vulnerable around others, confident at not bending her will and selling out who she is for the benefit of others. We're all damaged goods, used cars. Some people who puff out their chest and outwardly seem confident are just being ignorant and refusing to take a look under the hood and see what issues there might be, probably in case the damage is big and something they don't have the tools to fix. Just ignoring the check engine light and plowing on. The most truly confident people have a look under the hood, measure up all the flaws and weak points, understand what they're dealing with and then take steps to make sure they don't break down. unexpectedly through negligence.
They took a look. They just got too afraid to let go of certain bad behaviors they like. They didn't analyze until the thread ended. A completed work speaks for itself it doesn't switch on the shadow to protect it from the dying light.
Her admitting her fear was big thing. She still can't explain her need for approval. But fearing loneliness is the only valid fear. So you gotta give that one to her.
She's so gorgeous, not just physically but emotionally. Everything she stated hit so close to home for me. Damn. I wish more people were so open about the experiences she's been through.
I believe her, obviously, but WTH?? She is so gorgeous, BECAUSE of her NATURAL beauty. I don’t think she went to school where all the girls were Zendaya and Lupita and Cate… But even if she did, STILL STUNNING. Sounds like the people at her school had the lucky opportunity to be there for her, and they wasted it. Sad for them. Literally their loss. 40:12 “It’s so hard for me to look at you as a doormat… You are the pinnacle. You are.” Damn.💖
This may get lost in the void but you guys are amazing. I hope you both understand how much happiness you bring your fans through your craft. Never stop being you.
"I love external validation but I can't rely on it." is so sad and so relatable. She is such an amazing actor and amazing person and I hope she gets more roles where she really gets to show off her range and depth and ability. Everything she's said in this podcast has been so moving and real. really living up to the name of the podcast.
She's not wrong - every human being loves some external validation to some degree, but if you genuinely love yourself/know what you are capable of etc. it matters far less. So many industries rely on people constantly seeking external validation.
That was my reaction the day a friend of mine told me they were a dungeon master. I don't judge. I just try and fit myself into their lives because I love them
“Knowing is not the same as believing” 💯trauma and anxiety will haunt you endlessly and constantly having to push through it is exhausting. I’m thankful that she’s sharing this because so many people struggle with it in silence.
A profound interview which should be viewed by many to understand the issues behind social bully behaviors. Well done to John for asking deep questions and Deborah for her responses.
I'm half way through and sobbing. It takes so much to be this vulnerable but I have such a connection and appreciation for her and her art because of it Damn I'm glad I watched this
"My identity is rooted in fear and anxiety". Man, it's so weird yet nice to hear someone we see as so amazing say they feel this way. And to be able to phrase it so straight forward as well. My identity is also rooted in fear and anxiety - it has been for as long as I remember. I hope to be like Deborah - one day light years away from where I am now.
WOW. Deborah Ann Woll being EXACTLY who I’ve always felt she was through her work, though I’m not the type to read/listen to celebrity interviews. She is so good that I’ve believed every performance yet still saw the complexity of her. STUNNED. INSPIRED. AND Jon Bernthal! I always saw him as a “macho tough guy”, who is talented enough to know how to act. But the depth he brings is his own, not just performance. I’m blown away. I can’t wait to see them onscreen again. And I can’t wait to see Deborah Ann Woll as the lead in something big. Disney, make this happen. I have never, never seen anyone in this industry speak this deeply, broadly, personally, and absolutely vulnerably about this work. They are so different, but they are both artists radiating ultracredible integrity. I am amazed. Genuinely amazed. Watching this actually makes me believe in the artistry of storytelling in film. Hollywood, take notes! Recruit people like this. Protect and promote them. Let them lead. This is what the people want. Glorious!
Man, what an intimate share of emotions. She will probably never know the power of her sharing. So articulate in her description of the isolation people experience. As the parent of an autistic child, now young adult. It was so crushing to watch and hope they would find even just one person to be their person. It's so hard to parent that situation to drop a child and pull around the corner and hope you see connection. My hope was that it affected me more than him wanting to take that isolation from him. Thank you again so much, Deborah.
I knew Deborah was a big nerd, great actress, funny and pretty, but did not know about her journey, bullying, feeling undesirable, etc. Incredible to hear all of that and see that she chooses kindness. I was already a fan of her, but now? I feel... connected, I guess? What a sweet human being ❤
Absolutely a home run. How she instantly and easily walked him through D&D was spectacular. It’s great to see good, cool people play the characters we love. Love this!
Deborah Ann Woll is just my absolute favorite. I don’t weirdly Stan celebrities but I just admire and relate to her so much. I was bullied in middle school, not as much as some others, but it was awful when it was happening and I definitely did not tell anyone when it was happening, not my parents, teachers or anything. It started over something so silly-on the first day of school, I wrote a poem that said I still believe in fairies. By day 2 I had kids I *never* had class with coming up to ask me if I believed in fairies- which then started to deny. But it really broke my heart to stop believing in that magic and give up that dreamlike quality to fit in, and if you know your magic lore-a fairy dies when you stop believing in them, right? It’s a fantasy, but it sucks when you still wanted to be a kid and others made you grow up. Anyway, it went on from there, because once you have a target on your back, the kids know. Like Deb, I also found a place in drama club and eventually did find friends too. Now, more than 2 decades later, I am days away from sending my sweet, imaginative, dragon loving, DnD playing daughter to middle school and the anxiety I feel about her going through these years too is REAL. I’m so glad there are women like Deb who share their experiences and will say it’s ok for girls to like DnD and other nerdy interests and be proud of it. Thanks for doing this interview, it really means a lot. And please Jon next time you see Deb give her a hug for all the other 12 year old girls who related to what she was talking about and felt that too. Love and peace to you both.
I thought I loved Deborah Woll before but after this podcast - I love her even more. The absolute honesty and vulnerability is incredible. Being a Dungeon Master is so bad ass. She is my favorite.
Wow its nice to see Jon Bernthal and Deborah Ann Woll have an adult conversation. No hate filled rhetoric or race bashing. Just talking about what drives them. Very uplifting and worth watching. I agree fear can be a great motivator. And I would love to see a stand alone Punisher movie with Frank and Karen!
Crying @ 2AM. This hit. And this hit HARD! Been a fan of Ms. Woll's since True Blood and Mother's Day. She deserves the world. She deserves to know she's valued. As an actor, as a woman, as a human being. She can do no wrong, and I will continue to support every single one of her endeavors and dreams. By this random 30-something in CT. I wish so much greatness for this person. Thank you for sharing this.
What a perfound interview and an incredible person. The openness and honesty of the conversation is a real testament to the friendship these two share. Its actually quite painful to hear her described her battle with bullying, anxiety and self esteem growing up. But I feel it's one that needs to be heard more, because her experience is not a novel one. It's something millions of kids have to deal with, and some don't. We have to build a kinder society.
I never thought I would relate to a Hollywood actor on such a profound level as I do with Deborah. It's crazy how you can have both similar and completely different experiences and feel so similarly. From feeling worthless in childhood and taking that through life, to the imposter syndrome and belittling your own trauma because you know others have had it worse
After watching this, I'm convinced that they need to work on allllll the projects together. Such a genuine platonic love and desire to see each other succeed. Their energies work well together and they both value the work more than the trappings.
Wow. I’m just echoing so many other comments but I am blown away by Deborah’s eloquence and vulnerability in explaining her experiences, and the relatability of “I know rationally this is not the way it is, but this is a feeling that is ingrained in me from my formative years, so all the evidence to the contrary just makes me feel like an imposter.” Amazed at her ability to communicate so clearly while recalling the hurt and pain, e.g. “Being invisible and yet so conspicuous at the same time.” What a great conversation. Jon, you’re a great host and clearly a compassionate friend. Deborah, you’re outstanding, and I hope some day you can believe all of us telling you so.
Wow you really never know what someone has gone through until you take a moment to hear their story. Great episode, and can't wait for the return of DD!
Hearing her talk about the bullying she went through and how it still affects her hurts so much. 😢 I've gotten in so many arguments with people who try to say bullying isn't a big deal or it builds character (which especially pisses me off) any character a person who is bullied has, is in spite of the bullying, not because of it, and people have literally lost their lives to it. I am so amazed by her vulnerability talking about what was going on in her head while being bullied and how it affects her to this day. I am so surprised at her struggles with feeling worthy as an actress. When I was still pursuing acting (stopped because the process was so bad for my mental health) she was the actress who I admired most and would mention when people asked what kind of actress I wanted to be. She has so much depth, intention and nuance in her performances. I truly hope she comes to truly see, feel and believe her worth and value. ❤
That was just amazing. Seeing an an actress such as Ann being so openly vulnerable and discovering she is so nerdy and "normal" like many of us and Jon for being so cool and kind despite all the tough stereotype that he usually portraits. Just one of the best (if not the best) conversation.
Man, I can relate to this sooo much. I have been in the industry for almost 30 years, and I struggle with the "Social" aspects of it. I am very much a person of "Meritocracy" thinking. Being good at your job, reliable, stable, hard working, etc. means everything to me. To me it's work, and work does not define me as a human. I think it's because I was a musician originally, and learned to "never take the character home with you". That said, it's hard for me to assume a "character" at work. Unfortunately I really believe it's largely what's had held me back. Being who I am, being honest and genuine is so under appreciated. ON a side note, I met Jon right after the Shane's Death aired on WD, at the WB lot. And he was the kindest, most genuine, and "engaged" actor I think I've ever come across. He asked me what I did. Not because I was "Somebody", but because he was actually interested. I so appreciate who he is, and what he represents. We need more people like him in the world. He made me "Important" if that makes sense. I feel so fortunate to have met him.
I think I counted two or three times she said some variation of “I’m not a great storyteller…” then she launched John into a D&D world like a switch flipped. Deborah, YOU ARE a storyteller!
This is what you get when two very honest and genuine people, coming from different perspectives, get together. You two give me hope humanity can make it, even with all our differences. Thanks to both of you for sharing yourselves and your point of view with us all. You are great people and great actors. :)
Jon's genuine curiosity about someone who has such different experiences (situationally, but also emotionally) than him is really beautiful ❤ I love when Deborah said she's proud of her intelligence, but didn't want to use words like "smarter than" in comparison. Everyone has their different strengths and I think this is a good interview to showcase that! They're so different, but what an amazing conversation
This episode is out early on Patreon, ad-free and with all of Jon's profanity uncensored. Support us for just $5 a month to keep the content coming -- www.patreon.com/realones
You dont have to censor for youtube anymore they changed the rules back
@@whiskeyomega yes but then there is no reason for patreon. What is odd is how different channels conduct themselves Good Mythical Morning is one of the largest and never swear (fine) but also won't consume alcohol, and will substitute it for other things if any vid they are doing calls for alcohol.
You might think, well that's personal preference, as their filming times can be weird times apparently. But I do recall one ep one of them saying something similar to "No, we can't consume that on the channel." and stating a vague reason while talking about an alcoholic product. Yet other channels have grown large while consuming alcohol ("Cold Ones" of Australia is a notable one)
So.. GMM dont have patreon but they have their own websites and host every 6 months or so a live unedited "adult" show with the drinking, swearing etc. I think its just marketing to keep things PG. its not needed.
Cold ones Drink, swear and go crazy on youtube, but then have a patreon where its... very unhinged footage. lol
We need to see Jon and Manganiello playing DnD together!
I haven't yet started to watch, and I already gave it a LIKE.
@@Trucador15 with Deborah! She's an amazing player and DM.
Deborah's profound intelligence is only superseded by her decency and kindness. What an extraordinary person. And a damn fine actor.
AGREED!!!
And genuine and beautiful!
I love how much Deborah Ann Woll comes alive when dropping into DM mode! So vibrant and keen.
I first played D&D in the late 70s as a child and I love seeing my tribe succeed!
She did really well in the show True Blood. And being a sexy vampire and a bad ass. Anyway ya she’s a great actress and she also good in the daredevil show. And the new blood coming out something was missing from the Netflix version.
Totally, I think I'm in love. And this is the first time I met her.
She just made a million connections with vulnerable people. You see how perception is everything………she’s a rockstar
@@MrM0saic yep she rocks ❤️
Amen to that
It takes monsters amount of courage to be vulnerable and honest about all the shit you fear to express.
She's just intelligent, she has fear, but doesn't fear expressing herself. We need more people like her.
She just made millions fall for her too ❤
There's something profoundly poignant with vulnerability behind so much beauty.
(As opposed to snobbish pride etc)
Deborah said she wasn't good a storytelling, but she went into that D&D seamlessly and I was quickly captivated in that small story she was telling.
IMO probably the most difficult part of writing to do well is to make good characters. Make them unique, likable, sympathetic and most importantly make them struggle.
All of which are completely bypassed in D&D because you are building a world and conflict and the players are doing the character writing.
@@DivusMagusyeah but that’s not the only part of story telling. You also have to build the world, and these stories your characters have to go through. All parts of writing and story telling require effort and skill. The way she was imminently able to create this immersive and vivid image of a dnd scenario off the top her head takes good storytelling.
@@Mr.Murasakino oh I didn't intend to diminish her talents. But just wanted to say why someone who might struggle with normal writing can still be good at creating D&D games.
@@DivusMagus yes but not being the best traditional writer doesn’t mean you’re not a good storyteller.
What is the timestamp for her D&D?
This interview DEVASTATED ME.
The profound human nature, kindness and relatability of Deb’s vibe is HAUNTING.
I guarantee her story will resonate with a TON of marginalized people.
She just made every one of them feel seen.❤️
Good on Jon for gently pulling this out.😩
Well said! Deb is wonderful and Jon is so good at interviewing!
I definitely connected with her experiences as a kid. I just wanted to be friendly and everyone took my kindness as weakness and made me pay for it from Kindergarten to 11th grade. I went to my 25 year HS reunion and they told me how smart, nice and helpful I was. My internal reaction was, Why did you all punish me for being those things.
Couldn't agree more, sat here crying my eyes out and I'm only 39mins in... Everything Deb says just resonates so much with me. I think she just became one of my favourite people to watch and listen to.
white, attractive women celebrity = marginalized? l m a o
@@346ask Calm down, bud.
Watching Jon genuinely try to understand Deborah's bullying warmed my heart. 😂❤
And he stutters! He cares. ❤
But him not really catching the sexism... 😢
The way Jon lights up when Deborah speaks so passionately about D&D and how curious he is about it is amazing to see. It feels so authentic and encouraging and you can tell he loves that he can make her feel safe about talking about something she obviously loves and has a passion for.
Next up, the Punisher kills Vecna on Critical Roll.
When does that happen in the video
She should play Catti Bre In a Drizzt film.
@@dylanwhite3777 1:10:29 roughly
THIS!!!!
Frank and Karen’s relationship was ELECTRIC. Wouldn’t have worked without you two!
For real! They had so much chemistry in their scenes together!
Good thing they'll be reunited in Born Again. Can't wait for their reunion scene. ❤
Goddamn Electric 🤘🏽
I truly hope they stay as platonic soul mates in a way
@@salty3723 noooo they need to kiss at least once
Good to see genuine connection with people who would typically be labeled as coworkers. Awesome stuff
I love how she says she’s not a good story teller and then she goes off on her DnD thing. Girl you need to seriously question every negative thing you think about yourself and show yourself the same compassion you show others! Self love is everything.
Wow. She is a grand master story teller! Hopefully she understands how the rest of us experience what she creates.
This is it. I was bullied relentlessly and lived with those experiences as proof in some way I was less than, and through those filters streamed the thoughts I was using to protect myself. The bullies didn't know who I was, no one did, and I'm no longer in need of that protection. After years of therapy it helped to accept what the bullies did to me wasn't personal. Those thoughts seem real, however they developed from a time and place which is no longer present, except for when I make it so. After years of therapy it helped to accept it wasn't personal. If my thoughts aren't self-compassion, it's dubious, the weather. I can observe the weather while standing within it. A little neutral detachment goes a long way when dealing with one's self.
This is true, but sadly hard to learn. To do this you need to break the cycle. Treat yourself like you treat your friends. Don't yell at your friend. Don't put them down when they fail. Don't shake your head at their attempts at success. Be patient. Be there for your friend. Lend them a hand and have a heart for them. It works, even if you might slip up a few times, but it does work.
Thats not how it works.
So true. There's a lot of deep rooted things she had to face and endure to emerge as herself. It's like the every rose has its thorns issue. But I certainly hope she works through it too for herself so it is fully realized within herself and it unleashes a new mindset. It is such a battle with the flesh in that regard sometimes but she is proving 12-year old Deb right day by day along her storytelling gifts. I hope she will be as detailed with self-love and confidence as she is with defining and refining the details of her characters personalities when acting.
I wish I could just hug her….
I love how real and honest she is. Like soooo just vocal on her emotions and the trauma she had.
She is so beautiful. I hope she is seen and validated in just how amazing her work and who she is..
That’s how I feel
It’s a huge testament to Deborah’s strength that she hasn’t allowed this brutal, raggedy-ass industry to destroy her spirit. She’s very sensitive to her own emotions as well as others, and I think that’s really beautiful. 💜
It's part of why she isn't a part of this sort of dark echelon of prestige in the industry and is the girl doing dishes. She isn't soulless or trained in what the snooty in crowd expects of the elite
Man.. Hearing her cry while saying she believes she is undesirable really fucking hurt me deep. I feel so relatable in that aspect.. I also remember my bully's first and last name. :(
I'm sorry that happened to you. You're not alone. And you're a stronger person for enduring and overcoming that experience than anyone who feels like they need to bully someone to feel better.
Yeah it's been 25 years and I can still see the face, the voice of the girl who told me that I was the ugliest boy in the grade at 15. Shit sticks
Me to bro I got bullied all the way in to high school I had to go home in lie like I had a good day
man i remember bullying this kid when i was in 6th grade, i was 11 and this kid was a nerdy chubby kid. i never really like said anything too crazy to him and i never physically bullied him but i would just mess with him to get a laugh. he always took it well so i remember thinking oh okay this is just our dynamic, i roast him and he takes it. i had never been bullied and i had never bullied anyone else before or after that but one day someone overheard him saying he was gonna get his dads gun and shoot me. so rumor went around, he got kicked out of school, ended up moving away and nothing happened to me. once he said that it was if he was at fault and not me. i remember after that seeing how serious it was and i’m 29 years old now and still think about this from time to time and it hurts knowing i did that to him and gave him a negative experience in school at that time. idk what happened with him after that but i just have tremendous guilt about that. it was disgusting and after that i would stand up for kids being bullied but it never made up for what i did in my mind…
@@wh1skeybudI’d say as long as you can admit to it and learn something positive from it, then that’s all you can do. It seems like you’re doing a good job
Deborah's insecurities while a burden are also her superpower, it formed her into an empathetic, highly aware and endearing person of a comforting intelligence. As far as desirability she is higher than she could ever know and is a very memorable actor in mostly every scene she is in.
I can relate to a lot of her struggles and I have an even deeper respect for her after this podcast, great job on this one Jon.
She is too anxious. i hope she understands that it's not normal and that she doesn't have to live in fear.
@@redhat4363i reckon she does, i feel she showed she aware she was of it during this beautiful and vulnerable talk - but, from my own experience, when it's that ingrained in your psyche, it feels like a sisyphian task to see past it. therapy and affirmation helps a lot, but there's always that damn nagging imposter feeling
@@redhat4363 ah, if it was merely about awareness and intent... this kind of stuff makes you who you are on a deeper level. Our mind writes itself a certain way in order to protect itself and keep functioning. In order to understand that you don't have to live in fear you need to unlearn a lot of the lessons your life taught you, which have become unhelpful. And un-learning stuff is a lot harder than learning something new. And for a lot of people the only way forward is the dissolution of ego and everything that has been associated with it.
@@redhat4363 So...there's a difference between intellectually knowing that you're too anxious and KNOWING, and more importantly...BELIEVING. When you've been hurt so deeply in your formative years on some level it just never goes away. It becomes formative...both good and bad. And one thing you realize is that many, many people never grow beyond the limited mindset of being bullies, even as adults. Adult life in many ways is just High School politics writ large.
@@redhat4363I think you believe that kind of statement is helpful but it's actually hurtful. You can't tell someone to 'stop' anxiety but you can be empathetic and listen. It would be a worthy exercise for you to just listen to her instead of waiting for another chance to tell her she's wrong and should be this/that. Anxiety stricken people feel very alone when faced with this, and she does a pretty good job explaining it.
On comparing your childhood struggles with other people's "bigger" or "real" traumas -- I once interviewed a women who had been in the foster system, homeless, abusive relationships, drug addiction, all of that. She still teared up remembering something mean a teacher said to her in grade school. Those things aren't small, even if they aren't life and death.
This - I honestly probably don't remember much of what I learned in grade school, but I have vivid memories of a moments of feeling excluded/insulted etc.
This is literally the greatest interview I have ever seen.
At least in terms of celebrity, actor, or artist, rather than historian, political leader or activist, etc.
Deborah: "That's why you're great, and why I'm not yet" John: "What the F*ck are you talking about?" I loved this. This was fabulous. Love you both. ❤❤❤
Deborah Ann Woll is beautiful, and her acting is equally stunning. I’ve always been in awe of her talent. This interview just makes me love her even more because she’s also incredibly relatable. The way she describes her youth and being a non-threatening, easy target is how my son felt in school. Adults have always loved him and heaped praise on him, but being shy and quiet, classmates often pushed him around or made him feel like he wasn’t valued. He just graduated high school, and I’m hopeful he feels valued in college and beyond. 💛
sorry to hear what your son is going through. That being said, it never hurts for a boy to toughen up, my colleague sent his son to learn wrestling and rock climbing. Rock climbing stuck and it builds both strength and determination. Learning to do physicaly difficult things is one of the best ways to build grit and determination.
Couldn't AGREE MORE, and couldn't have articulated it BETTER, KUDOS!!!👍
@@adamcrookedsmile first, thank you. 🙏 He does gymnastics and plays basketball. When he was younger he also played baseball and took taekwondo. He does photography. He loves public speaking. He plays guitar and is learning piano. He graduated summa cum laude. He works at a ninja warrior and parkour gym. He makes lists of goals and almost always accomplishes them by his self-imposed deadline. He’s a really well rounded kid. He is also quiet and shy, compassionate and empathetic. He has a good heart, and I hope that never changes. You may not have intended for your comment to suggest he is weak or in some way at fault for kids his age seeing his kindness as a green light to take him for granted or walk all over him. But a suggestion like yours can come across that way.
He will have a blast in his adult life and will be happy to have all these skills and own confidence. In any doubt, he can read the peaceful warrior or watch on UA-cam the one with nick nolte
@@adamcrookedsmile being physically skilled and emotionally vulnerable are not mutually exclusive
Jon is such a good interviewer. He is willing to go to the gritty places that make things uncomfortable, but also willing to be vulnerable in those places. That’s what makes people feel safe enough to open up themselves.
Totally agree. He is a perfect blend
Absolutely. I am floored by his depth and ability to ask such poignant questions
We most protect Deborah Ann Woll at all costs.. she is absolutely wonderful.
I've played Dungeons & Dragons for over 40 years, running games as the Dungeon Master for most of that.
And this is, hands down, the best way I've seen to show someone who's never played what the game is like.
Deborah is a great actress and a fantastic story teller.
Christ... I have never related to ANYONE, let alone any celebrity, more than I relate to Deborah. Thank you SO much for telling your truth. I feel like I could literally show this to my therapist and be like - "THIS"
What would your therapist say?
1:12:51 the face of someone who is hooked and imagining the setting, just from 2 sentences of story. awesome.
Truly. She asked him 4 questioned and bro got hooked. Holding his bow ready. Asking questions in response. John would make a great d&d player. Would love to see him on a d&d show.
As a retired DM I can honestly say guys like him make the best players, all in, no meta gaming, just pure imagination, it's the best way to play
and then he proceeds to say have I ever met an Owlbear before. as if he’s a damn natural lol
1:23:19 Deborah I’m sure you’ve heard this 1 million times. But you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Send in your audition, who cares about the embarrassment you got this shit girl. You and John are lifting up so many people right now but this one interview and we want to just give back to you by telling you guys pursue your dreams and be like John and both of you keep swinging for the fences.
1:23:19 Deborah I’m sure you’ve heard this 1 million times. But you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Send in your audition, who cares about the embarrassment you got this shit girl. You and John are lifting up so many people right now but this one interview and we want to just give back to you by telling you guys pursue your dreams and be like John and both of you keep swinging for the fences.
I can’t remember the last time I actually sat and watched a whole podcast but this I was invested I could listen to Deborah for hours
Agreed!!
Same! She is absolutely captivating! I also have to add that I never in a million years would have thought that Jon Bernthal is hands down one of the best interviewers and conversationalists that I have ever come across. Instantly subscribed and this was the first podcast of his that I ever clicked on.
OMG. I just want to hug her! You can see John's heart breaking for Deborah (as all our hearts did). Her story connects and mirrors the life of so many other people's experience. Ugh! I'm happy she can tell her story and, hopefully, give others a voice.
Watching this was like therapy.
Deborah is so real and vulnerable and wholesome. And Jon Bernthal is a good dude and so kind.
When I'm depressed, this is what I'll watch to feel better.
37:37 can someone PLEASE let her really know, feel how much the fans love her, and how much her PERSON inspires other women? I didn't know anything about her story before this, and could already feel like she is a real human, and now, knowing that she is also one of us, that have been carrying trauma since adolescence, 'cause of some mean kids... And what a road you've been in! Girl, you're amazing, and such an inspiration.
i love her so much. She's so beautiful inside snd out. i relate to her because i also was bullied in middle school. it basically took half of my 20s to get over those thoughts and insecurities. It pains me to see Deb still fighting those feelings. And beign in Hollywood probably isn't helping.
Even as a guy she’s very inspiring and brutally relatable as someone that has their own mental struggles. She represents what is possible when you actively work on yourself and pursue your passions despite your insecurities and fears holding you back.
As a man who dealt with some similar things (though in my case it was more alienation than bullying), I'd say she's inspiring to all of us. She's so lovely inside and out, it hurts me that she still seems to carry that hurt.
This is so utterly heartbreaking. And I feel so seen in her words. She is, so transparently, such a remarkable, intelligent, kind, and beautiful person. Vulnerability is a superpower so abused by the cowards of our culture that are afraid to feel. She deserves better. She's a star. She shines in everything she is in. We see you Deb!
Yep, sitting here listening to her and as that weird autistic social outcast who was bullied all through school I deeply relate to her
@@thatlonewolfguy2878I hear you.
I think I would have to pause and give her a hug, she seems like such a lovely person it hurts me that someone like her would be hurting so much.
Seeing Punisher and Karen together is heartwarming
I know right.....like i instantly smiled to see this. So weird.
Absolutely
It's so lovely to see the two soulmates on screen talk like real soulmates/buddies.
I guess that was not much acting as Karen. Deborah is just as sensitive and teary-eyed in person 😊
Honestly, I feel wrong to be shipping Frank and Karen more than her and Matt.
Probably because the way Karen is able to tame the anger in Frank, and try and call out people who call Frank a monster.
Jon is so easy going, and I always feel like he's not interviewing anyone, but just having a talk with a friend or new friend. Deborah is a true joy and I love her now as I do her talent.
I came here after the d&d bit went viral so I was completely unprepared for when she talks about being bullied in school and my heart just got shattered for her
Came here from another video where just the D&D part is highlighted. The raw honesty and emotion in this discussion is stunning. My estimation of both of these fine actors/acting industry figures has skyrocketed. The strength it takes to do this is... well. I'm amazed.
Jon or somebody, I need you to tell Deb that her opening up like this made a significant, meaningful difference for at least one life. I need her to know that somebody who shares most of the traumas and insecurities found the strength and comfort in her words to get up again and try to be better, to turn things around. Honestly can't express how much this meant. Thank you so much for this.
Definitely not just one❣️
Another one here!
I felt it deeply
I wish I knew you personally and could give you a hug! I echo your sentiments wholly!
I haven’t even gotten to half of the video, but I’ve already had to pause multiple times in order to really digest the fact that she described so many feelings I hadn’t been able to put into words yet.
The validation she has made me feel by being so vulnerable is just… huge.
It took a weight out of my shoulders to know that I’m not alone, my experience was valid and it still is.
I already loved Deborah but I never even imagined we would have so many experiences and feelings in common, I know she’s probably not going to see this but I’m truly grateful because her words came in the exact moment I needed them and I feel it has caused a big shift in the way I perceive myself.
100000% - There are a dozen things she said over the course of this conversation that hit incredibly close to home. The one comment that stood out most to me "I was taught at that age to fear how people feel about me." This emotion (both real and perceived) is life altering - I have never heard someone perfectly encapsulate that emotion in single sentence. Amazing stuff and she has all of my respect!
You took the words right out of my mouth! 40minutes in and never cried so much…
Man, hearing Deborah speak about her fear and insecurity really broke me. She's so obviously talented and beautiful and intelligent and it is so sad that she cannot see in herself what all of us see in her. I hope she knows that this kind of honesty and vulnerability is a superpower. This interview is going to help so many people. Bravo Jon and Deborah.
I hope she knows that virtually everyone deeply loved her on those Netflix marvel shows cause she was absolutely awesome and felt like a truly relatable REAL person and she absolutely was one of my favorite part of every episodes she was in.
Also, we all absolutely hope to see more DND from her.
Relics and rarities was totally amazing.
“This is a very sacred relationship to me” was such a parallel for Frank & Karen to me. I really enjoyed watching this, you two are crazy insightful and smart ❤
Big credit to Jon for this conversation. What a gift this is. Deborah is a stone cold talent in her own right. Criminally underexposed and one of the best things Disney did with this series was bring her and the original cast back to the story, as cannon. Deborah in particular deserves the work and more than deserves the exposure. Thank you, Jon, and this was a great conversation.
And to Deborah: onwards and upwards!
Beautifully said!
A Punisher/Daredevil D&D campaign for charity would be insane. Thank you Decorah and Jon for being so open!
I mean, Marvel's Multiverse RPG did come out pretty recently.
LETS DO IT PLEASE DEB AS THE GM!!!
Well, she invited Charlie Cox in one of the episodes of Relic & Rarities.
@@AndreaP76Seamus the Pirate!
Yes please
"My identity is rooted In fear and anxiety."
Thank you both for this conversation.
This is one of the most raw and honest interviews I've ever seen. Deborah Ann was so honest, such a great interview.
Deborah saying “I wanted to play make believe in the schoolyard forever” is so incredibly poetic and so sad, but it’s so true. I’ve felt this way about my music for the longest time. I have not been this invested and even emotional over a podcast EVER, I couldn’t help but cry along with Deborah when she spoke about her 12 year old self, being “too nice” and being a doormat for people is indeed a survival instinct, I had to go to therapy for that along with other situations that happened in my past. I’m glad she’s so open and vulnerable to talk about it and it only makes me adore and relate to her even more. 💛
the both of you were my favourite in the daredevil series. seeing this just reminded me why i loved that show so much. god bless yall
Karen Page was by far the worst part of Daredevil
@@noahjzzz why tf?
@@noahjzzz You are by far the worst part of this comment section
@@noahjzzz this just screams being salty. did she not answer your dm's?
@@noahjzzz Since you are a Troll I won't say you are an ignorant, abrasive, ahole... I will just ignore you in the future.
Jon might not be the most polished interviewer but he really does a great job of asking the right questions and giving his guests the space to not only answer that question but to go off on a tangent if it provides more insight. This was a great interview.
This is my absolute favorite podcast episode. It’s so wholesome and I love how raw Deb is about her emotions and what’s made her who she is ❤
I love her so much. Every time she's on camera, I'm just in awe with the emotional landscapes she expresses.
Like your statement...emotional landscape...especially
I think I just cried for 85% of this talk, felt every conversation.
Can I just say, as someone who has been playing DnD since 2019…. And still struggle on how to explain it… That has to be THE best introduction to the game ever. Please please Deb you HAVE to organize a game where Jon is playing (and other friends sure) and let us see it 🙏🏻💜 it would be so much fun
I love the scenes between Karen and the Punisher... Specially that one in the hospital, if you know you know. They both did a great job playing that part.
This is probably the best podcast there is on the internet, and its name couldnt be more fitting to it. Amazing job from Jon and his team for bringins us such a humane vision of Hollywood.
Deborah's confidence here is unreal. So confident in being honest with herself and others, confident in knowing who she is, confident in being vulnerable around others, confident at not bending her will and selling out who she is for the benefit of others.
We're all damaged goods, used cars. Some people who puff out their chest and outwardly seem confident are just being ignorant and refusing to take a look under the hood and see what issues there might be, probably in case the damage is big and something they don't have the tools to fix. Just ignoring the check engine light and plowing on. The most truly confident people have a look under the hood, measure up all the flaws and weak points, understand what they're dealing with and then take steps to make sure they don't break down. unexpectedly through negligence.
They took a look. They just got too afraid to let go of certain bad behaviors they like. They didn't analyze until the thread ended. A completed work speaks for itself it doesn't switch on the shadow to protect it from the dying light.
Her admitting her fear was big thing. She still can't explain her need for approval. But fearing loneliness is the only valid fear. So you gotta give that one to her.
She seems really genuine. Her vulnerability is inspiring. Really cool to see someone who struggles like the rest of us and isn’t afraid to share it.
I'm JUST now finding out Jon Bernthal has a podcast!?!? And Deborah Ann Woll is today's guest!??? LET'S GOOOOOO!!!🗣🗣🗣
She's so gorgeous, not just physically but emotionally. Everything she stated hit so close to home for me. Damn. I wish more people were so open about the experiences she's been through.
I believe her, obviously, but WTH?? She is so gorgeous, BECAUSE of her NATURAL beauty. I don’t think she went to school where all the girls were Zendaya and Lupita and Cate… But even if she did, STILL STUNNING.
Sounds like the people at her school had the lucky opportunity to be there for her, and they wasted it. Sad for them. Literally their loss.
40:12 “It’s so hard for me to look at you as a doormat… You are the pinnacle. You are.”
Damn.💖
This may get lost in the void but you guys are amazing. I hope you both understand how much happiness you bring your fans through your craft. Never stop being you.
"I love external validation but I can't rely on it." is so sad and so relatable. She is such an amazing actor and amazing person and I hope she gets more roles where she really gets to show off her range and depth and ability. Everything she's said in this podcast has been so moving and real. really living up to the name of the podcast.
She's not wrong - every human being loves some external validation to some degree, but if you genuinely love yourself/know what you are capable of etc. it matters far less. So many industries rely on people constantly seeking external validation.
Jon's reactions when Deborah is explaining D&D are amazing; hope that he starts playing D&D :3
That was my reaction the day a friend of mine told me they were a dungeon master. I don't judge. I just try and fit myself into their lives because I love them
It was such a beautiful moment when deborah started getting into D&D .. She had a glow or a sense of empowerment or beauty! It was amazing 🥹🥹
“Knowing is not the same as believing” 💯trauma and anxiety will haunt you endlessly and constantly having to push through it is exhausting. I’m thankful that she’s sharing this because so many people struggle with it in silence.
A profound interview which should be viewed by many to understand the issues behind social bully behaviors. Well done to John for asking deep questions and Deborah for her responses.
I'm half way through and sobbing. It takes so much to be this vulnerable but I have such a connection and appreciation for her and her art because of it
Damn I'm glad I watched this
so glad you dropped the full length one.
"My identity is rooted in fear and anxiety". Man, it's so weird yet nice to hear someone we see as so amazing say they feel this way. And to be able to phrase it so straight forward as well. My identity is also rooted in fear and anxiety - it has been for as long as I remember. I hope to be like Deborah - one day light years away from where I am now.
Deborah has an aura that makes me feel like I’d be safe around her. And I think that’s the coolest thing in the world.
What an honest, raw, vulnerable episode. Hope the world gets to see a lot more of Deb. So happy you interviewed her!
Man, it’s refreshing to hear people talk so openly about their emotions and anxiety. We’re all so similar and struggling
the way she lights up & gets so giddy when she speaaks of their time filming Daredevil is amazing! so heartwarming to see
WOW. Deborah Ann Woll being EXACTLY who I’ve always felt she was through her work, though I’m not the type to read/listen to celebrity interviews. She is so good that I’ve believed every performance yet still saw the complexity of her. STUNNED. INSPIRED.
AND Jon Bernthal! I always saw him as a “macho tough guy”, who is talented enough to know how to act. But the depth he brings is his own, not just performance. I’m blown away.
I can’t wait to see them onscreen again. And I can’t wait to see Deborah Ann Woll as the lead in something big. Disney, make this happen.
I have never, never seen anyone in this industry speak this deeply, broadly, personally, and absolutely vulnerably about this work. They are so different, but they are both artists radiating ultracredible integrity.
I am amazed. Genuinely amazed. Watching this actually makes me believe in the artistry of storytelling in film. Hollywood, take notes! Recruit people like this. Protect and promote them. Let them lead. This is what the people want. Glorious!
Man, what an intimate share of emotions. She will probably never know the power of her sharing. So articulate in her description of the isolation people experience. As the parent of an autistic child, now young adult. It was so crushing to watch and hope they would find even just one person to be their person. It's so hard to parent that situation to drop a child and pull around the corner and hope you see connection. My hope was that it affected me more than him wanting to take that isolation from him. Thank you again so much, Deborah.
I knew Deborah was a big nerd, great actress, funny and pretty, but did not know about her journey, bullying, feeling undesirable, etc. Incredible to hear all of that and see that she chooses kindness. I was already a fan of her, but now? I feel... connected, I guess? What a sweet human being ❤
She's actually so real for correcting herself from "jealous" to "envious". I have never before felt such sudden kinship with a stranger :P
Absolutely a home run. How she instantly and easily walked him through D&D was spectacular. It’s great to see good, cool people play the characters we love.
Love this!
It was awesome. One of my best friends got me into D&D. They have patience with me because we come from entirely different backgrounds
Deborah Ann Woll is just my absolute favorite. I don’t weirdly Stan celebrities but I just admire and relate to her so much. I was bullied in middle school, not as much as some others, but it was awful when it was happening and I definitely did not tell anyone when it was happening, not my parents, teachers or anything. It started over something so silly-on the first day of school, I wrote a poem that said I still believe in fairies. By day 2 I had kids I *never* had class with coming up to ask me if I believed in fairies- which then started to deny. But it really broke my heart to stop believing in that magic and give up that dreamlike quality to fit in, and if you know your magic lore-a fairy dies when you stop believing in them, right? It’s a fantasy, but it sucks when you still wanted to be a kid and others made you grow up. Anyway, it went on from there, because once you have a target on your back, the kids know. Like Deb, I also found a place in drama club and eventually did find friends too. Now, more than 2 decades later, I am days away from sending my sweet, imaginative, dragon loving, DnD playing daughter to middle school and the anxiety I feel about her going through these years too is REAL. I’m so glad there are women like Deb who share their experiences and will say it’s ok for girls to like DnD and other nerdy interests and be proud of it. Thanks for doing this interview, it really means a lot. And please Jon next time you see Deb give her a hug for all the other 12 year old girls who related to what she was talking about and felt that too. Love and peace to you both.
I thought I loved Deborah Woll before but after this podcast - I love her even more. The absolute honesty and vulnerability is incredible. Being a Dungeon Master is so bad ass. She is my favorite.
I was going to say the same thing
37:00 No illusions Deborah is a top tier stunner with a heart of gold. Anxiety is a brutal opponent.
Deborah took the words out of my mouth about how we perceive life. 😢
Wow its nice to see Jon Bernthal and Deborah Ann Woll have an adult conversation. No hate filled rhetoric or race bashing. Just talking about what drives them. Very uplifting and worth watching. I agree fear can be a great motivator. And I would love to see a stand alone Punisher movie with Frank and Karen!
I LOVE how Deborah just teached Jon D&D through experience, lets just play it. What a great actress and a totally awesome human being!
😭 Deborah Ann Woll. Girl, you're killing it. The world needs more people like you. You get it.
Crying @ 2AM. This hit. And this hit HARD! Been a fan of Ms. Woll's since True Blood and Mother's Day. She deserves the world. She deserves to know she's valued. As an actor, as a woman, as a human being. She can do no wrong, and I will continue to support every single one of her endeavors and dreams. By this random 30-something in CT. I wish so much greatness for this person.
Thank you for sharing this.
What a perfound interview and an incredible person. The openness and honesty of the conversation is a real testament to the friendship these two share. Its actually quite painful to hear her described her battle with bullying, anxiety and self esteem growing up. But I feel it's one that needs to be heard more, because her experience is not a novel one. It's something millions of kids have to deal with, and some don't. We have to build a kinder society.
I never thought I would relate to a Hollywood actor on such a profound level as I do with Deborah. It's crazy how you can have both similar and completely different experiences and feel so similarly. From feeling worthless in childhood and taking that through life, to the imposter syndrome and belittling your own trauma because you know others have had it worse
After watching this, I'm convinced that they need to work on allllll the projects together. Such a genuine platonic love and desire to see each other succeed. Their energies work well together and they both value the work more than the trappings.
Wow. I’m just echoing so many other comments but I am blown away by Deborah’s eloquence and vulnerability in explaining her experiences, and the relatability of “I know rationally this is not the way it is, but this is a feeling that is ingrained in me from my formative years, so all the evidence to the contrary just makes me feel like an imposter.” Amazed at her ability to communicate so clearly while recalling the hurt and pain, e.g. “Being invisible and yet so conspicuous at the same time.”
What a great conversation. Jon, you’re a great host and clearly a compassionate friend. Deborah, you’re outstanding, and I hope some day you can believe all of us telling you so.
She's so smart and articulate and real. Didn't even know who she was but now I am a fan 🤘
Thank you for sharing yourself, Deborah! All us D&D nerds love you and are inspired by your amazing work!
Amazing episode, Jon brought out the most vulnerable side of Deborah in a safe place
Wow you really never know what someone has gone through until you take a moment to hear their story. Great episode, and can't wait for the return of DD!
Totally what I’m feeling. Like, I liked these actors, but I find i really like both of these people.
Hearing her talk about the bullying she went through and how it still affects her hurts so much. 😢 I've gotten in so many arguments with people who try to say bullying isn't a big deal or it builds character (which especially pisses me off) any character a person who is bullied has, is in spite of the bullying, not because of it, and people have literally lost their lives to it. I am so amazed by her vulnerability talking about what was going on in her head while being bullied and how it affects her to this day.
I am so surprised at her struggles with feeling worthy as an actress. When I was still pursuing acting (stopped because the process was so bad for my mental health) she was the actress who I admired most and would mention when people asked what kind of actress I wanted to be. She has so much depth, intention and nuance in her performances. I truly hope she comes to truly see, feel and believe her worth and value. ❤
This was an unexpected surprise.
WOW. This really hit in the feels.
Thank you for this 🍿🍿 thank you 🙏
I just want to say thank you for your platform. Deborah Ann Woll is 1000% a real one. I love you sir. Thanks for keeping it G.
That was just amazing. Seeing an an actress such as Ann being so openly vulnerable and discovering she is so nerdy and "normal" like many of us and Jon for being so cool and kind despite all the tough stereotype that he usually portraits. Just one of the best (if not the best) conversation.
This interview is very inspirational to me, Deborah Ann is very inspirational person.
How I just suddenly realize an hour has gone by and I’m still glued to this interview …. So much life value unpacked here. Bravo. 👏
"I don't want an award, I want to get great material"
fire!
Man, I can relate to this sooo much. I have been in the industry for almost 30 years, and I struggle with the "Social" aspects of it. I am very much a person of "Meritocracy" thinking. Being good at your job, reliable, stable, hard working, etc. means everything to me. To me it's work, and work does not define me as a human. I think it's because I was a musician originally, and learned to "never take the character home with you". That said, it's hard for me to assume a "character" at work. Unfortunately I really believe it's largely what's had held me back. Being who I am, being honest and genuine is so under appreciated.
ON a side note, I met Jon right after the Shane's Death aired on WD, at the WB lot. And he was the kindest, most genuine, and "engaged" actor I think I've ever come across. He asked me what I did. Not because I was "Somebody", but because he was actually interested. I so appreciate who he is, and what he represents. We need more people like him in the world. He made me "Important" if that makes sense. I feel so fortunate to have met him.
I think I counted two or three times she said some variation of “I’m not a great storyteller…” then she launched John into a D&D world like a switch flipped. Deborah, YOU ARE a storyteller!
This is what you get when two very honest and genuine people, coming from different perspectives, get together. You two give me hope humanity can make it, even with all our differences. Thanks to both of you for sharing yourselves and your point of view with us all. You are great people and great actors. :)
Jon's genuine curiosity about someone who has such different experiences (situationally, but also emotionally) than him is really beautiful ❤ I love when Deborah said she's proud of her intelligence, but didn't want to use words like "smarter than" in comparison. Everyone has their different strengths and I think this is a good interview to showcase that! They're so different, but what an amazing conversation
I love that you can see on Jons face the empathy and anger he feels on her behalf. You can tell she is someone he cares for and respects.