In my opinion, this is one of the most powerful alliances. You don't need to win normally; they just need to stall out and prevent any team from getting too powerful. This can be done by leveraging the Fremen's great military and the Guild's economy to make it very formidable.
I've won once with this exact alliance. Though it was a stall out eventually, we were super close to doing it turn 4 when we first allied. Now knowing that apparently Fremen can cross-ship from reserves (according to a reply here from Jack - though unsure if that's official or his house rule), might've allowed us a normal win at another point
In one sense this alliance is all about delaying the game as long as possible (while I love the Guild, I really dislike their special victory condition - games already last long enough without this incentive to have them drag on). However, with the Guild suddenly getting 3 free revivals per turn, and the Fremen gaining access to cross-shipping, you suddenly have two extremely mobile factions, one of which can always go last in the turn order. This means these factions can be extraordinarily reactive and bring enough forces to bear to crush most other factions positionally on the board. Atreides prescience, BG Voice and Hark traitors are still powerful combat abilities, but it matters less if you have an army of teleporting ants that keep coming back and don't care where you are on the board
we played Dune the other day and we had this exact alliance, the Long Haulers. Fremen was actually using Guild's alliance ability, eg. Fremen was able to ship into the Arakeen etc., were we playing it wrong? i'm not sure if it was an "off-planet" shipment or cross-shipment from another territory, maybe that's where the difference is? (i mean, Fremen allied with the Guild is still not able to ship from the reserves to just anywhere on the map at half the price because they are already on the planet... but they are able to cross-ship from another territory at half the price? after watching several videos and read a lot of discussions on this topic, i am still not sure about the final ruling for this particular alliance so any help in clarifying this would be appreciated :) )
I've won one of our last matches with this teamup, me being fremen. I've now grown to dislike this combo. We have a problem with very long lasting games (up to 12 hours for the full 10 rounds) and this combination did not make it hard at all to stall the game until that point. The only solution would've been a combined kingmaking effort to put someone else onto the throne before we would've won. Our games have become so long that I'm considering switching the guild out entirely for some other expansion faction.
Every game without Guild is better! I prefer Tleilaxu to replace and my table really loves CHOAM. One thing that's sped up our games -using 2 minute timers for shipping and preparing battles. Also using Shield Wall as a stronghold after the 4th worm, or using Ixian stronghold even without ixians might speed it up
I think once everyone at a table is experienced, a game of dune should take no more than 5 hours, with the average being 2 to 3. I'd definitely recommend timers for everything. Dune can be very prone to analysis paralysis.
It's always interesting to find channels like this from game designers and it amazes me how under appreciated they are. On a different note, if I'm someone who operates a sales platform, are there any options to carry some of your designed products as a web only business? I'm always looking to work with creators.
Your best bet would be reaching out to Amodee or GaleForceNine- they have all the distribution. We count ourselves lucky to have a copy of each of our games. They’re both good about sending one- though we often have to watch several unboxing videos before we get to.
@@jackredathewarp Thanks for the info, though unfortunately if it's an Asmodee game that probably means there's a higher likelihood they won't sell to independent online only operations but I haven't tried to contact them yet. I would like to make more connections in the Board Game space though as I enjoy physical media and wish to promote more of it over time.
Hey Jack two questions, one that you probably wont be able to answer but worth a go. 1. Do you think an even game (ie 4, 6, 8 players) or an odd game (5, 7, 9 players) is more fun to play? Specifically thinking regarding alliances. 2. Any news on expansion three? :) (worth a go lol)
I will answer both questions like this: Currently, the trouble with the odd number of players is that one faction can be left out in the cold when a Nexus happens.
@@jackredathewarp Wow. Incredibly cryptic. I am very excited for the new expansion. Just following up on the one faction being left out problem (at least for now) - do you think being a single player is a significant disadvantage when there are 2 other alliances on the table? and does that make it less fun?
@@OasisGameGuys Not necessarily. It can be easier to go after 3 strongholds on your own sometimes- the last Dune discord invitational is proof of that. Emperor would have likely won solo. I just don’t think some people like not having the option. Who wants to still be standing when the music stops?
This is exactly why Dune NEEDS to be 15 turns. No one is starting the game with a stall mentality. The patience and dedication is not there in most humans, the two stall out factions will actually try to go for the win whether they are allied with each other or allied with anyone else. The last three turns of nuking the board does not happen until turn 13 which means you have 12 good rounds of people actually playing. Leaders will be revived and revived again. You also failed to mention the cross planet shipment with the Fremen from their reserves which is broken. . .
I'm kind of a Guild expert. Nobody else in our group liked playing them, but I did, so I played them nearly every game. In my experience alliance with the Fremen is not a good combination and I almost never did it. For one thing, the Fremen will almost never need to ship so one of the best synergies the Guild offers just isn't available. The second thing is that both powers need special abilities; neither one brings this to the table. It would be much better to go with the Harkonnen for traitors, with the Atreides for card buys, or with the BG for the Voice. The final thing is that the Emperor ability says that they can give money to their allies and pay for things for them. We take this rule seriously, and to mean that nobody else can do that. Otherwise, what's the point of the power, right? So the Guild cannot just give the Fremen money. Really these two are the most natural enemies in the game and are best off looking for allies elsewhere.
Sometimes you don’t have a choice. You can always go it alone, but I would rather have the ally if all the other factions have allied. Much easier for Guild to get the turn 10 victory with Fremen than without.
hmm, isn't it true for alliances that you can always pay for your ally? (for treachery cards, shipment, revival..) note that this is different for the Emperor alliance where they almost have like a single wallet with their ally, so Emperor's ally can use that wealth at any time, for example to buy treachery cards (and get the spice back). but according to the rules, the Guild should be able to pay if their ally is buying a treachery card?
@@igorlulic1411 I think allies can generally pay for ally card purchases during bidding, and for shipment. Allies can't pay for revival, nor can they generally pay for spice dialing in battle. Emperor can give spice at any time for any reason to their ally.
In my opinion, this is one of the most powerful alliances. You don't need to win normally; they just need to stall out and prevent any team from getting too powerful. This can be done by leveraging the Fremen's great military and the Guild's economy to make it very formidable.
I've won once with this exact alliance. Though it was a stall out eventually, we were super close to doing it turn 4 when we first allied. Now knowing that apparently Fremen can cross-ship from reserves (according to a reply here from Jack - though unsure if that's official or his house rule), might've allowed us a normal win at another point
Great series!
Thx
Never would've thought about this being a powerful alliance - this is an interesting one!
In one sense this alliance is all about delaying the game as long as possible (while I love the Guild, I really dislike their special victory condition - games already last long enough without this incentive to have them drag on).
However, with the Guild suddenly getting 3 free revivals per turn, and the Fremen gaining access to cross-shipping, you suddenly have two extremely mobile factions, one of which can always go last in the turn order.
This means these factions can be extraordinarily reactive and bring enough forces to bear to crush most other factions positionally on the board. Atreides prescience, BG Voice and Hark traitors are still powerful combat abilities, but it matters less if you have an army of teleporting ants that keep coming back and don't care where you are on the board
we played Dune the other day and we had this exact alliance, the Long Haulers. Fremen was actually using Guild's alliance ability, eg. Fremen was able to ship into the Arakeen etc., were we playing it wrong? i'm not sure if it was an "off-planet" shipment or cross-shipment from another territory, maybe that's where the difference is? (i mean, Fremen allied with the Guild is still not able to ship from the reserves to just anywhere on the map at half the price because they are already on the planet... but they are able to cross-ship from another territory at half the price? after watching several videos and read a lot of discussions on this topic, i am still not sure about the final ruling for this particular alliance so any help in clarifying this would be appreciated :) )
We totally allow cross-shipment from reserves.
@@jackredathewarpInteresting. I hadn't read that from RAW, only cross-shipping on the board
@@GreenAntennas doesn’t seem like any good reason to not allow it.
I've won one of our last matches with this teamup, me being fremen.
I've now grown to dislike this combo. We have a problem with very long lasting games (up to 12 hours for the full 10 rounds) and this combination did not make it hard at all to stall the game until that point. The only solution would've been a combined kingmaking effort to put someone else onto the throne before we would've won.
Our games have become so long that I'm considering switching the guild out entirely for some other expansion faction.
Every game without Guild is better! I prefer Tleilaxu to replace and my table really loves CHOAM.
One thing that's sped up our games -using 2 minute timers for shipping and preparing battles.
Also using Shield Wall as a stronghold after the 4th worm, or using Ixian stronghold even without ixians might speed it up
I think once everyone at a table is experienced, a game of dune should take no more than 5 hours, with the average being 2 to 3. I'd definitely recommend timers for everything. Dune can be very prone to analysis paralysis.
12 hours for 10 turns is insane. Definitely not the fault of the combo. You're spending over an hour per turn... why??
It's always interesting to find channels like this from game designers and it amazes me how under appreciated they are. On a different note, if I'm someone who operates a sales platform, are there any options to carry some of your designed products as a web only business? I'm always looking to work with creators.
Your best bet would be reaching out to Amodee or GaleForceNine- they have all the distribution. We count ourselves lucky to have a copy of each of our games. They’re both good about sending one- though we often have to watch several unboxing videos before we get to.
@@jackredathewarp Thanks for the info, though unfortunately if it's an Asmodee game that probably means there's a higher likelihood they won't sell to independent online only operations but I haven't tried to contact them yet. I would like to make more connections in the Board Game space though as I enjoy physical media and wish to promote more of it over time.
Hey Jack two questions, one that you probably wont be able to answer but worth a go.
1. Do you think an even game (ie 4, 6, 8 players) or an odd game (5, 7, 9 players) is more fun to play? Specifically thinking regarding alliances.
2. Any news on expansion three? :) (worth a go lol)
I will answer both questions like this:
Currently, the trouble with the odd number of players is that one faction can be left out in the cold when a Nexus happens.
@@jackredathewarp Wow. Incredibly cryptic. I am very excited for the new expansion.
Just following up on the one faction being left out problem (at least for now) - do you think being a single player is a significant disadvantage when there are 2 other alliances on the table? and does that make it less fun?
@@OasisGameGuys Not necessarily. It can be easier to go after 3 strongholds on your own sometimes- the last Dune discord invitational is proof of that. Emperor would have likely won solo. I just don’t think some people like not having the option. Who wants to still be standing when the music stops?
@@jackredathewarp yep, I getcha. Can take away some of the fun, especially for newer players.
Thanks for the response. Keep doing great work ☺️
This is exactly why Dune NEEDS to be 15 turns. No one is starting the game with a stall mentality. The patience and dedication is not there in most humans, the two stall out factions will actually try to go for the win whether they are allied with each other or allied with anyone else.
The last three turns of nuking the board does not happen until turn 13 which means you have 12 good rounds of people actually playing. Leaders will be revived and revived again. You also failed to mention the cross planet shipment with the Fremen from their reserves which is broken. . .
I'm kind of a Guild expert. Nobody else in our group liked playing them, but I did, so I played them nearly every game. In my experience alliance with the Fremen is not a good combination and I almost never did it.
For one thing, the Fremen will almost never need to ship so one of the best synergies the Guild offers just isn't available.
The second thing is that both powers need special abilities; neither one brings this to the table. It would be much better to go with the Harkonnen for traitors, with the Atreides for card buys, or with the BG for the Voice.
The final thing is that the Emperor ability says that they can give money to their allies and pay for things for them. We take this rule seriously, and to mean that nobody else can do that. Otherwise, what's the point of the power, right? So the Guild cannot just give the Fremen money.
Really these two are the most natural enemies in the game and are best off looking for allies elsewhere.
Sometimes you don’t have a choice. You can always go it alone, but I would rather have the ally if all the other factions have allied. Much easier for Guild to get the turn 10 victory with Fremen than without.
hmm, isn't it true for alliances that you can always pay for your ally? (for treachery cards, shipment, revival..) note that this is different for the Emperor alliance where they almost have like a single wallet with their ally, so Emperor's ally can use that wealth at any time, for example to buy treachery cards (and get the spice back). but according to the rules, the Guild should be able to pay if their ally is buying a treachery card?
@@igorlulic1411 I think allies can generally pay for ally card purchases during bidding, and for shipment. Allies can't pay for revival, nor can they generally pay for spice dialing in battle.
Emperor can give spice at any time for any reason to their ally.