VERY INTERESTING! Eye opening indeed. I'll go away and read the article you reference. I've always suspected these mega-machine are too much. I remember 40 years ago being able to easily keep up with a GSXR 750 on my 350LC except on a long straight - in the days before I grew up. My 27 BHP bike is great for all legal road uses - and it doesn't weight me down. Good work chap!
Seriously good info. I'm in the USA. I have a 98 fatboy and an 07 fatboy.roughly 57hp and about 65 hp, respectively. More than adequate for a relaxing ride on 2 lanes, going 40-70mph. I have a 2017 T120, my favorite bike at 79hp and great for a nice country ride and the occasional times I feel like a hooligan. My 4th bike is a 2022 himalayan,,,this beast has a seat clenching 24hp and is great at 50-60mph, but can easily go 75, but why would I want to))) I take it for relaxing country highway rides and can jump onto any gravel, dirt, or greenlane I see😊 People on CVO's ect try to tell me how nice their bikes are on interstates and that they're like sitting in an easy chair 😂😂😂. I'm 60 years old and drive a semi,, I've got over 3.5 MILLION miles in just a truck. I've seen the boring interstate. Plus, a bagger does not satisfy my "inner hooligan"))) I know people with $50,000 baggers that don't have near the fun that I have on every ride. Plus, another if them only have the skill set for riding a bagger and couldn't handle a gravel road on my powerhouse himalayan))))
I agree and unfortunately there are two problems, 1) because of the EU regulations A1 and A2 license categories are restricted to a certain power to weight ratio. 2) using aluminum on motorcycle frame or even subframe's can Increase motorcycle prices by quite a lot which many people are not willing to pay for.
@@kangacrew540 definitely makes sense! Driving any vehicle at it’s max is always more fun then riding at it’s minimum!! May aswell drive an auto 😢 Yeah, makes plenty of sense for fun 🤩
Two strokes are well placed to make a comeback if they can get the emissions under control. They're actually the best engines suited for use with a catalyst because of their over scavenging of air/fuel mixture out the exhaust port, add fuel and oil injection and clean burn synthetic lube and I could see them being really low maintenance.
Its an old chestnut but, in my considerable experience (over 50yrs of riding all manner of bikes) it is far more rewarding to ride a small capacity machine briskly than to ride a large capacity machine slowly.
I have 2 bikes. A ZZR1400 and a Honda NC750X. The Honda is like a favourite old granddad. Reliable, cuddly, and someone I am happy to be with every day The ZZR1400 is like the alcoholic uncle. Every meet-up is filled with laughter and raucous fun, but you just couldn't keep it up every day. Horsepower on a motorcycle is similar. 50 is your granddad. 200 is your alcoholic uncle.
I’ve ridden for many decades with bikes of all hp ratings. These days at 68 I’m fine with my 40 hp do all bike. No rider modes, no abs, no nothing other than fuel injection. Just a raw fun daily rider bike. There is something to be said for keeping it simple and keeping life simple.
Same here, none of that stuff interfering with my riding experience and control, except my current bike claims 150 HP (must be at the crank; it loses some on the way to the rear tire if you ask me) and I'm only 64.
One of my mentors, when I was getting into bikes, had owned just about every bike ever made. Well, ok, that is an exaggeration, but he had owned all number of highly desirable, high performance bikes over the years, and he'd put a lot of miles on them. I won't bore you with the details, but through circumstance he found himself in possession of a Honda VTR 250. He couldn't stop raving about how perfect that bike was and how he should have had one years ago, for this reason, that reason and another. It was to be his last bike. He never bought another big bike. The "little" Honda was still in his garage the day that he passed. They were about 40 hp, from memory.
Hi Stu, it’s Torque you should be looking at. You can have similar engines with the same horse power, but the better engine is the one with the better torque curve.
Peak horsepower figures mean little because horsepower = torque in ft. lb. x RPM ÷ 5252. Double either torque or RPM without the other changing, and you've doubled the horsepower. So torque and horsepower are the same thing. What we are interested in is the amount of horsepower we have within the RPM range we are riding.
I love the irony of all the manufacturers adding more and more capacity and horsepower to the engine, but then calming it all down with electronic traction controls, lol. I recently got to test ride 2 triumphs, on the same route with a group of other triumphs. I rode the Explorer 1200 first then the Scrambler 400. As nice and enjoyable as the 1200 was, it was the 400 that really made me grin. At no point did the 660cc sportsbike in the group leave me behind, bearing in mind this was at legal road speeds, but i felt so much more accomplished and thrilled on the 400cc bike.
The usual excuse from certain riders is " they need the power to get out of trouble". Well how about doing some further training so you don't get into trouble?
Lol tell that to the driver on their phone that breaks hard because they looked up EXACTLY when it turned yellow and assumed it was about to go red, 20 yards from the damn intersection.
I hear that all the time. I have yet to hear an explanation of how any "trouble" you get into would be mitigated by going faster. Most crashes happen by taking turns too fast and running into intersections.
@@radekknauer2891 If someone is intent on colliding with you, you can adjust YOUR course; that is in your control. You can brake (rearward acceleration) - depending on your skill and your bikes and tires braking ability (no HP required), you can swerve (sideways acceleration) - depending your skill and your bikes ability (no HP requied) and you can accelerate forward out of the way (skill, ability and HP required). You use a combination of the above, HP comes into it when forward acceleration is used. Less HP means diminished options for course correction.
@@Andy_ATB even my ancient T-140 with somewhere around 50hp allows me to accelerate to pass erratic drivers or find clear road ahead of potential hazards and bunched-up traffic as it’s still a quick bike in most real situations and can still do “the ton” if you’re silly enough. Having really dynamic performance as with my Benelli 1130 R160, or even my CB1300 allows more choices to select one’s safe place in traffic. But using the full potential to generate absolute speed will get you killed. As a wise friend once said to me “you can always ride a fast bike slow”. However, the reverse never applies. I’ll take torque over absolute horsepower every time! These things are not the same, and the road and traffic conditions and one’s skill are the limiter. 👍🏻🙂
The latest BMW GS is a case in point, they’ve upped the horsepower once again but they have removed nearly everything which made the bike desirable in the first place, lol. I’ve ridden nearly 250,000 miles by motorcycle in my life so far and the best rides I’ve had in that time have been between the speeds of 50-60mph, excess speed creates far more potential for death and removes all the pleasure for me, I suspect this is true for most if they’re honest! Consequently I agree with the premise of this film! 👏👍😀🏍
Great video, thanks Stuart. I can't argue with a word you say. But on the other hand my bike is 200+ horsepower (or so they say) and I love it. To my mind the modern sports bike is the pinicle of the development of the motorcycle and it ticks all those 'biker boxes'. It is fun to ride at legal speeds, the build quality is superb and it is definitely a bike that one turns back to look at when leaving it parked up. I may have spent £10,000 on horse power that I'll never use but as we all know biking is so much more than simply getting from A to B.
I totally agree I have a 210hp BMW M1000r I fully get I can’t use all that HP on the road but like you say the engineering that goes into these machines to get these massive HP is amazing you again like you say ride at road legal speeds and still have fun the BMW as the shift cam system that works at all RPM’s I wouldn’t get anything like the buzz I get on a smaller motorcycle.
What are you going to do with all that excess power? All you can do is accelerate to barely 2nd gear and you are already over the speed limit so you have to slow down again. Why not do a few track days. If all you want out of a bike is tech sophistication and xxxx horsepower take it to the race track. You clearly do not know how to enjoy just being in an agreeable landscape and the passing scenery wafting by while on two wheels.
@@fingerhorn4 Or, maybe you're just too poor to afford a decent bike and so you ride a clapped out piece of garbage (when it actually starts) and you're jealous. See how easy it is to jump to ridiculous conclusions? Ride your own ride and let others enjoy their own ride as long as they aren't endangering others. Riding is about having fun. If you aren't having fun while riding just take a car.
@@fingerhorn4 Actually I do know how to 'enjoy an agreeable landscape'. My first love is cycling (and before you jump to another erroneous conclusion, I don't ride in a group) where incidentally the peaceful moment can be spoiled just as much by an old duffer on an adequately powered bike as it can by a boy racer on a sports bike. 😊
Aussie here. I own the Himalayan 450 and an XJR1300. The XJR at 100hp is great on long windy roads and feels great when it pulls like a train. Nothing to do with how much hp I need. More about how it makes me feel. On the other hand, my Himalayan 450 is a hoot to ride working through all the gears. Both satisfying in different ways. So to say you don't need 100hp+ is missing the point. Just as we don't "need" motorcycles when we have cars, - we still do. I like the way my 100hp bike feels, that's why I ride it. I like the way my 40hp bike feels, that's why I ride it.
I definitely agree with your comment I have a 54hp motorcycle at the moment with 140k miles on the clock and I'm looking to get a 2nd motorcycle with 100+ hp is not that I need all that hp is how makes you feel and is nice to know that if you need extra power is there. My 54hp motorcycle can't keep up with modern 2L+ cars in my opinion you need at least 70hp, torque is directly correlated with hp in a way more hp more torque less hp less torque. Usually high hp motorcycle have more comfort better suspension better tyres better brakes and so on.
I own a Kawasaki zx12r with around 175 hp and 135 Nm of torque, and a new BSA Gold Star with 45 hp and 55 Nm of torque. The BSA has plenty of power for road riding, whereas the zx12r often feels like too much, especially with the state of UK roads and proliferation of 50 mph limits. After chasing hp all my biking life, I was sceptical that 45 hp would be enough bike for macho me with my 40+ year's riding experience and having spent the last 19 of those on the zx12r. How wrong I was. The term "less is more" couldn't be more apt in this case. Last time I enjoyed my riding this much was on a Suzuki 250x7 back in 1982, and that had around 30 hp and 27 Nm of torque. The BSA can out accelerate most cars, and I can definitely keep up with less experienced riders on much more powerful bikes through the twisties.
@johnevans306 I probably would if it was worth anything. Mine's a 2 owner 2003 with less than 15k on the clock in very good condition, but I'd be lucky to get £2k for it as a private sale and only £1.5k part exchange (if any dealer was prepared to accept it that is). I've owned it for 19 years, so it has sentimental value to me and I'd rather keep it to ride occasionally rather than sell it for peanuts.
+1 Jerry. Like you I’ve had plenty of big engined bikes but nowadays at 55 I’ve knocked that on the head. With lower speeds on the roads virtually everywhere and cameras of course, comfort is my no 1 priority on two wheels because I just don’t need high performance anymore.
I have never owned a bike with more than 70 bhp. And it had never stopped me from going places, taking long journeys to the other side of the continent. The first time I did it was on the back of a Honda shadow with 45 ponies. I myself am a big man, tal and heavy, and that bike hauled my ass and all the luggage effortlessly. And now I'm amazed of how well the little RE Classic 350 is able to perform the same task without breaking a sweat. Really amazing.
I'm afraid the standard of driving in this country has dropped to an all time low across the board, from motorcyclists right through to heavy goods. Which is astonishing considering the added hurdles one has to perform to aquire a licence these days. And it has to be said, I dont see many police officers setting a good example either. I used to ride a 125 that would happily propel this 15 stone man at 60mph. It just lacked the torque to do it up hill.
Totally agree about the standard of driving,not quite sure about your comment about the police force ,I wouldn’t have their job nowadays when I look at the state of behaviour nowadays I think people should behave better.
@@GeorgeShepherd-c1l my comment is directed at their standard of driving particularly on the motorway. 20 years ago the traffic officers were amoung the best drivers and probably the most decent coppers on the force. Since the introduction of the highway patrol or "plastic policeman" the numbers of traffic police have been dramatically reduced. Every day I see those that are left perform maneuvers that would see the rest of us sat before a magistrate. Whatever happened to lead by example??
I weigh 240 pounds, and can ride up a 15% grade for over 10 miles, on a 50cc 2 speed pedal moped. Yes, my speed drops to 5-6 mph, but because first gear is so low, the engine is running near redline, which is where small engines make their power. Any bike with a manual transmission can climb any hill, or mountain, in first gear. It may be barely moving, but as long as you can keep the engine rpms up it will keep going. A CVT scooter is a whole nother matter. I tried to ride a 125cc scooter up a very slight grade, and it bogged badly. The rpms kept dropping, and it was lugging the engine badly. There is no way to downshift a CVT, and it won't downshift itself when climbing. A manual transmission is the key to climbing on a small bike.
Re police riders, i have to agree the standaed seems to be falling. Ive seen plenty of poor riding technique on show from the police. Dont even get me started on our heroes in IAM Roadsmart......
I'll give a bit of a concession to those that do big freeway miles. I was quite impressed with my mates ST1100 on the few occasions that I rode it, but it was too much for 90% of the riding that I do. He offered me that bike for a song when I last purchased a motorcycle. I politely declined his generous offer and went out and paid exactly 4 times as much for a bike with a bit less than half the power, and I couldn't be happier. 50 hp is easy to ride around town, great on b roads and enough to get you up the freeway occasionally.
@@PrimoStracciatella I bought my bike 5 years ago and sold it after a year. The CB500X was well known for being buzzy at speed. Perhaps Honda have finally got the message and did something to cure it. Enjoy the bike.
Let me guess - baby boomer? While I am x generation and style and having the best looking, most comfortable and something that really is quite something as opposed to cheap and nasty is more important than saving a few dollars.
I don't think that the Yamahas or Kawasakis that I've ridden in the past as being cheap or nasty. I never needed a liter bike or wanted a v-twin cruiser of any kind and it's still not my style. Middleweight bikes have served me well over the years. I spend more of my time on back roads than interstates anyway.@@boundlessone
The video doesn’t make mention of quality. He’s not saying “go out and buy a 10 year old poor quality Chinese 125” is he? Depends on your definition of quality I suppose 😂
When I passed my licence 4 years ago I bought myself a Honda Hornet ( about 100bhp) one of the reasonings behind this was why would I buy a A2 power bike when I had a full license ( as it turns out it was naivety!) I never really gelled with the bike, I ride back roads 99% of the time ,the bike always wanted to go faster, and I could easily break most speed limits in second or third gear. Eventually I decided to get a new bike as I had fallen in love with Modern Retros. After much research I got my bikes down to two. The Moto Guzzi V7 Special or the Kawasaki W800. I had always favoured the W800 but at 47 horsepower I was convinced I would get frustrated, the Moto Guzzi has 65 which to me seems a better proposition. Anyway after much agonising I went for the W800 and it was the best decision I could have made. 47 bhp is perfect for me and my confidence and enjoyment has grown exponentially since having the new bike. I would say to any new full license riders, don't fall in to the trap of thinking you have to have 70+ horsepower just because you have like me been brainwashed by media and social media groups. Get a bike with the right amount of power for you, it makes the world of difference.
Brilliant. Torque down low in the rev range is better than power at the top of the rev range that you never ever reach on the roads. Took me a few years and bikes to figure it out though 🤣👍.
It depends on where you live and where you plan to ride. In the U.S., if you plan on riding on the interstates, you NEED a bike that is capable of at least 100 mph, or more. I have two bikes that fit that description. Both make between 66 and 72 advertised hp, and will do between 120-125 mph. Both are cruiser style bikes. Both carbureted, no flat black. I generally ride in the right lane, at around 65 mph, 10 mph under the speed limit. But you need a lot more than that to keep from getting run over. Not only do you need a high top speed, you need good acceleration. Pretty much everybody goes 85-95 mph on interstate highways here, and traffic laws are NOT enforced. The cops don't even attempt to enforce them. It's just a free for all, and there are a lot of accidents. So if you see someone coming up behind you fast, you need enough acceleration and top speed to outrun them. I also have three other bikes, also carbureted and not flat black, that range between an advertised 20 and 35 hp. Even the 20 hp 250cc bike will do 85 mph, but that's at full throttle on a flat road, with nothing in reserve. I wouldn't even consider riding that bike on the interstate. You would likely be killed fairly quickly. The key words I noticed from your video are "road legal speeds". NOBODY in the U.S. even knows what that means. Most of them are going 20 mph to 30 mph OVER "road legal speeds". I never knew what "horsepower" meant either. When it comes to performance in a straight line, I judge a bike by its top speed and acceleration, measured by GPS. I know what my bikes are capable of as far as acceleration and top speed, because I have actually tested them, in a safe location of course. None of them have any kind of traction control, or ABS, or computerized anything. Power and acceleration are not always related to engine size or advertised hp. My Honda 250cc twin will cruise all day at 85 mph, on a flat road with no headwind, but my 500cc Royal Enfield single has a maximum usable top speed of 55 mph. Yes it will go faster, but probably not for very long before it blew up. And while it is extremely enjoyable to ride at 55 mph in top gear, that enjoyment quickly goes away at speeds much above that. I do not consider myself an "expert rider". I'm not sure exactly what that means. I started riding at age 8, on a Bultaco 100cc dirt bike. I learned how to do wheelies, jumps, and slides off road. I have ridden dirt bikes my entire life, up until a few years ago, when it became physically unable to get on or off one due to the extreme seat height. I am also now physically incapable of repairing a flat tube type tire by myself anymore, and riding in the Arizona desert, the only place there is to ride a dirt bike where I live, I had always gotten a lot of flat tires, due to a particular type of thorn we have here, called a goathead. I got my license and first street bike at age 16, have owned over 40 motorcycles in my life, counting the five I have now, and ridden over one million miles, mostly on open highways, without a single accident. I am NOT a roadracer, which most riders here in the U.S. seem to think they are, and have never owned a crotch rocket type bike.
@@stuartfillingham When I was 16, and first started riding on the street, the speed limit was 55 mph, and it was rigidly enforced. Now it is 75 mph, 80 in some places, and is not enforced at all. Nobody has any fear of being stopped for speeding. The highways have become racetracks. I don't know if it's just in the U.S. or not.
I think i see the problem. When people are going faster than me i let them PASS me. I have never had the need to go 80 mph+ on or in any type of vehicle. Staying in front of someone who is driving like a bat out of hell is definately not the smartest thing to do outside of racing. Ride your ride but please don't become a danger to others and blame it on someone else.
I also live in the USA IHave owned so many bike I lost count the 1800 VTX was one I now own a RE INTERCEPTOR 47 Hp I can keep up with anything on the road if needed but i choose not to. And I for one will never go back to a so called big boy bike l Ike my Harley Ultra
@@darrellhendrix5502 Doesn't work in my state and most others. I have been rear ended three times while driving 65 mph in the right lane, once while driving a large white box truck. That truck looked like a semi from the rear. The idiot that hit me was going so fast that their vehicle was completely destroyed, and three occupants were severely injured. They had to be doing 90 mph+. They had the left lane to pass in, but likely never saw me, due to being distracted. Just about everybody sets their cruise control well over the speed limit, then plays with their phone while they are supposed to be driving.
The German word that is abbreviated to "PS" is "Pferdestärke". "Pferd" is the German word for "horse" and "Stärke" is the German word for "power". It literally means the same.
@@radekknauer2891 kilowatts is a measure of electricity. A kilowatt is simply a measure of how much power an electric appliance consumes. It's same same, just after conversion its hp. And the OP is not making an argument. He has stated a fact.
I’m in the US. I ride a 600cc Honda Shadow. Drives me nuts when everyone tells me I need a bigger motorcycle! It’s always, “aren’t you worried you’re going to get run over from behind on the fast interstate highways?” First of all, with my 600cc motorcycle making 34hp I’m able to exceed the speed limit on any road in the country. Secondly, the vehicles coming up from behind me are looking out of their windshield at me. They are aware of me, and my exact location, more than any other drivers on the road. If I’m coming up from behind other traffic, particularly if I’m exceeding the speed limit, the vehicles ahead of me have no idea I’m there! That poses significantly more danger to me than any vehicle approaching me from behind. I’ve decided that most people cannot get their thick head around the fact that the vehicles they cannot see are less dangerous than the vehicles they can see.
@@GhostRider020 When we ride on the public roads, yes we are counting on our fellow humans. Someone approaching from behind, even if they are exceeding the speed limit, is looking out their windshield at you and only approaching you at maybe 5-10mph. If you don’t want anyone to pass you, then you must ride faster than the traffic. In that case, you are going to need to exceed the speed limit by 10-20mph. You are then relying on everyone ahead of you to see you, and accurately judge your speed, when they glance in their mirrors. I’d take my chances with the person looking out of their windshield, but we all get to pick our poison.
When I travelled the USA for the first time in 1985 bikers would say that a 650 is a beginner's bike and for girls. I couldn't believe it! My first bike was an old CB360 (with points) I bought for 250 bucks, I had a great time on it!
@@clarson2916 No. I am relying on me seeing them and what they do and being prepared and able to avoid them. Just like a skier on a ski hill not hitting the skiers ahead of them. Only difference is my bike has mirrors so I have an easier time keeping track of what's behind me.
@@GhostRider020 I’d argue that’s a false sense of security. Extra speed makes bad things happen faster, and with more devastating consequences. But, like I said, we all get to choose our own poison.
While I was riding my Vespa towards skipton one of these powerful bikes passed me at a ridiculous speed, but the bit that annoyed me is how close to me he was when he passed (totally unnecessary). When he got to the roundabout up ahead, for reasons I still can’t quite understand he tipped over and fell off, I would have had sympathy if I wasn’t busy laughing my arse off.
I remember being in the back of an Army lorry, the sort with the canvas covers. We were being driven to a firing range. Anyway, these 3 bikers roared up behind the lorry and started shouting at us, and giving us the V-sign. Obviously, we returned fire, and it was quite good fun, with just a spicy edge to it. They soon roared past. Well, a mile-or-two further on, we drove around this sweeping bend to find all three of these characters in an untidy heap on the side of the embankment. It was a delicious moment in an otherwise dull day.
Cheers Stuart. I was surprised to see the new RE Gorilla promo video ... I'd have thought they would have had more sense. I guess they are trying to appeal to the lunatic fringe as well as the more 'traditional' rider. When you switched from their footage to yours i actually felt my stress level drop. Keep up the good work sir.
What’s interesting is that seems like a beginner bike to me. If they are suggesting riding like that to beginners, they will crash. Sorry but it’s either that or close calls that will make them quit riding altogether
I’m a rider of over 45 years on bikes on the road & am constantly amazed of the fixation of the entire motorcycle world on hp. It’s engine torque, low to midrange 3/4 of the throttle that’s the most important on the roads. It’s just common sense that for most of every bikes time on the road your not anywhere near the max hp. But your in your max torque range where you spend most of your time. High torque over a large rev range at the expense of hp is far more beneficial on the road. Hp figures are for the track.
Anyone who gets distracted for the first few minutes will be thinking "Blimey, not Stuart's usual riding style, he must have a right bee in his bonnet this week" 😮 ...😂😂😂
Funny that this rider was not smooth at all and wasn't really going all that fast, averaging about 80 to 95 KPH which is about 45 to 57 mph. The choices he made of speeding in a 30 KPH zone were stupid, most intersection turn lane accidents are from some idiot trying to pass in a turn left lane.
I'm glad you posted this. I watched this footage on your previous video in disbelief with my eyes half shut waiting on the inevitable. I have two bikes. One is a triumph scrambler 1200 xe and the other a 1979 triumph t140. I have just returned the scrambler to triumph after two years of ownership and only 850 miles down. I have been riding for over 30 years but power no longer does it for me and every time I grab the keys it's the old classic that comes with me. The only Bonnie will stay with me until the government stop providing me with petrol. I guess I'll make a plant pot or something out of it after that. It takes a while to realise that horsepower isn't what it's about but when you do it's such a relief. Thanks for the video.
Back in the late 80's I led a bike club ride out on a 27bhp bike. All the other bikes were 50-90bhp. At the first stop they asked me to slow down as they were struggling to keep up! Now own an Interceptor 650 47bhp which as you say is perfect for all road conditions, no need for anymore.
Stu well said.Driver and rider discipline has really nosedived recently as has behaviour in general life you just have to look what has happened in our once lovely country in the last couple of weeks.Ride safe everybody and thanks Stu for all your videos.
I find that the 24bhp the 411 Scram to be perfectly fine for real world use. The low end torque is great, and the smiles per hour off the charts! I don't have to constantly exercise restraint as it's easily kept below legal limits. I relax and enjoy the ride and my surroundings! Sometimes less, is most definitely more! Uncle Stu on the nose, once again!
Good video, my bikes range from 9.5 to 117 bhp . But i agree 50 bhp is enough for the road to stay legal . I have owned a 194 bhp busa and a 170 bhp blade too , they are exciting but you are always waiting for a speeding ticket to drop through the letterbox, personally i like a 100 bhp bike . That's what my first bike had , a cbr600f, but most motorcyclists like a bit more speed occasionally
You are absolutely right. When I took my license in 1974 the superbike of the day was the iconic Honda CB750. With 68 horsepower! My current bike I bought in 2012, used. It is a 750cc Kawasaki with 66hp (had to google it to be sure) and in my mind it is a big bike and I am still happy with it. In fact it gets a new battery later today. Sometimes at biker cafes and other gatherings there are discussions about this topic. it is slightly comic when middle aged men argue about their bikes and 100hp here and 130 or more hp there fly in the air. Sometimes somebody asks me how much I have and my standard answer is that I have enough. You know why.
Great video. I ride a 2016 africa twin with a claimed 94 horsepower and find that plenty. What i think actually matters are the torque figures. I have ridden the recently released transalp and while it has similar horsepower it falls down on the torque figure and that is what you notice it simply doesnt have the same shove. When manufacturers produce bikes with bigger and bigger horsepower figures that will inherently come with bigger torque and thats what anyone who rides motorcycles feels. You can't feel horsepower but you can feel torque
My father gave me his 2001 FJR1300 since he doesn't ride anymore, the bike has 144hp, my best friend has a 47hp mt03 660. We both use our bikes for commuting and having fun in the weekends, i never find myself in a situation where i can safely go faster than him except for straight lines, plus his bike is lighter and more manageable. I'm considering buying a triumph 900, guzzi v7, interceptor 650 or xsr700 as my next bike as i proved to myself that (at least for me) more than 60/70 hp don't serve any purpose. I also travel quite a lot and my 47hp Benelli TRK502X did an amazing job at that back in 2022/2023. I can't even accelerate that much because since this bike doesn't have any electronic control the rear tire spins or the front wheel lifts. A thing that the fjr is very good at is chugging fuel like crazy, i can't do more than 16km/L.
I have come to grips with the fact that I am a mediocre rider. I am older and ride carefully, at a modest tempo and maintain distances between cars in front and back, giving me time to correct errors in judgement and failure of skill. I am enjoying my 20HP RE Classic 350, I wish it had 25 HP but no more than that. My "Fast bike" has 30 HP. My "Big Bike" has 40 HP. MORE than enough for me.
@@stevenmiller184 I consider that as riding safely. I feel lucky just being able to still ride at my age (67). It's easier avoiding mayhem thay way than adding power to go around most of the time. On many small roads it's just not an option to throttle out.
I often find myself bimbling along quite slowly on country roads, it's a new thing with me, and I'm enjoying it. In fact I've had to become more alert to what's behind me and am wondering if some some sort of proximity warning gadget exists, other than the mirrors.
My current ride is a Honda cb500x which is my first big bike and it has 47bhp it does everything I want it to and I don't feel its trying to kill me. I don't see the point of a bigger bike when I can get 95mpg on average from mine.
I've had this conversation with my local Royal Enfield dealer recently. It's the same thing everywhere, be it horsepower, megapixels or any other ego inflating thingy. Very insightful, thanks for sharing.
It's easy to get sucked into the powerband and become a knucklehead and begin to spout manufacturers spec about how much is needed for XYZ riding. I own an XR 150L and with 12 horsepower, (really around 9), I find it's fully adequate to propel my 230 lbs quite well most places I travel. Yes it doesn't have any grunt for overtaking and speed is lacking at best : however it's all I need most days. If I need more speed I ride my Harley, which lots of folk claim is also only good for "around town". It's rated at 53 HP and has no trouble doing 80+ mph which in my 67 year old brain says is over the limit of need. Great video my brother
Elementary aerodynamic drag: to double terminal velocity you need 8 times the power for the same drag coefficient. Or to put it another way if you halve the power the terminal velocity is reduced by 21%. (Rolling resistance etc means this sum is a little approximate). Drag varies with speed squared, power is drag times speed.
Agree with you Stuart , I’ve been riding 53 years and had bikes R1 s , Fireblades and plenty big tourers fjr 1300 ae with 150 hp plus, and never used all that hp , even after a track day a Brands Hatch. You never need it all , I’ve now got a triumph tiger 660 sport with only 80 bhp , nice and light ( because of my age😊🤣) but just perfect power and handling , because I live on the Isle of Wight your lucky if you get to 60 mph , to many blind bends and any faster you’ll be in the sea everywhere 😂😂😂 , good article.😊👍👍
Really interesting, thank you. I've owned bikes of all sizes, I genuinely find the 47 - 65bhp power area the most enjoyable which is great as there are seemingly more bikes in this group released every day.
the first bike I ever rode was a 1949 Indian Chief with around 1200cc and 39 hp. I almost pissed myself when I saw a youtuber questioning whether an Indian scout sixty was a good beginners bike. 998cc and 78 hp.
You are right about that video and the riders complete disregard to road users and the law. I'm surprised a manufacturer would use such a video to promote. I think HP don't really matter, I'm more into torque , however I like a bike with a bit more than enough simply because it is all down to the rider. Me on my KTM1290 have 160HP, but that bike is ridden safe as I'm an experienced rider, but take an 18 year old on the same bike. Good video mate. Dan
I think what people actually like in a powerful bike is a torquie and wide spread power band. I have a R NineT witch puts out around 110hp or something like that. it's a fun bike because of the power characteristics rather than the share power. If you in mountain passes with a lot of up hill climbs and tight corners needing to power out of it make a felt difference over my old SFV650 which around 70hp from memory.
Another excellent video Stuart. I completely agree with what you said. Having owned 4 bikes at the same time with 50, 60, 75 and 115 BHP. I used the 50 for long distance riding to Bulgaria and Greece. The 115 never left this country and I found I usually only needed a maximum of half throttle and changed gear at 5000 rpm and even so I was charging about the countryside too fast. The one thing higher horsepower gives you with a car or bike can bike is the gearing can be set so the engine is turning over relatively slowly at motorway speeds to give long life.
Absolutely spot on! Been riding since 1978 , I have a Scram 411 at 24bhp and it’s just perfect for pretty much everything except prolonged motorway stuff. I’ve got a Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. I’m in rural Mid Wales and the deaths by inexperienced motorcyclists or one that foolishly believe they can ride their crotch rockets are now a weekly occurrence . I’ll stick with my Scram and V7 thanks.
It really isn't about "how much power you need". I've been riding the road for 53 years & have been riding offroad for 60 years. I can tell you that as my skills have grown I have come to appreciate too much power, too much braking ability & better handling than I can ever fully appreciate. It allows me to push my ride experience without "running out of bike". The key is being mature enough to know your own limits & where it is reasonable to explore the bike's capability. It is fun to go fast on a slow bike, but be aware, that bike's limitations can sneak up on you & bite you in the azz when you have not reached your own limits.
Hi Stu, very interesting video. This rider's skill is breathtaking in it's total absence. My last touring motorcycle was a Yamaha FJR 1300. Top speed in excess of 154 MPH & 0-60 MPH: 2.7 Seconds. 145bhp. Fuel consumption never better than 51 mpg. My latest tourer is a Yamaha Tmax 530. This amazing machine delivers a top speed of over 100 mph, or so I'm told, and a 0-60 time of less than 8 seconds. 45.9 bhp.The fuel figures are consistently in excess of 70 mpg and let me assure you I do not dawdle along. So, how much horse power do I really need? Apparently no more than 45.9 bhp. Ride safe my friend.
I've kissed goodbye to large 3:18 CC/HP bikes and bought the Meteor, all 20hp of it. Was a bit worried it be a bit breathless. I love its lack of massive hp, I no longer feel the need to overtake....because I can! I rarely go over 60 and have loads of fun at around 50, I've always been a cautious rider but this bike forces you to be. I see other riders overtaking in fairly sketchy situations and just think, yea I may have done that with 100hp, but no more thankfully.
My friend here in india bought a BMW 850 gsa last year. Uses it to go to work in crazy indian traffic and once in a while rides out on longer rides. Doesn't like going offroad, so the gsa is useless. Couldve bought a tiger 900 gt or a tiger 660 and saved money. But bmw branding apparently is of a lot of importance. Absolutely pointless purchase apart from it providing a feeling of accomplishment of being able to afford it.
Another thing to consider is power to weight ratio. A 50hp motorcycle is pretty equivalent to a lighweight, peppery sports hatchback with up to 200hp. It may not be the fastest car out there but it is fun to drive and does overtakes really well. How much more power does one need on streets really. I get it, bikes and cars are much like ones penis, you may think that it is always better to have a bigger one but in reality that is not the case. More important is how that 50hp is produced. 50hp from a small cc engine that you need to stress the hell out of it to make it move quickly and it screams on a highway to the point that you feel like the engine is going to blow. That is not good and why some people say 50hp is not enough for highway riding (which is pure bollocks). Compared to the same 50hp from big cc long stroke engine which by numbers produces the same horsepower but it does it so in relaxed fashion and without stress and you are always on a good power band to do those quick overtakes while at the same time the engine isn't screaling like it is about to blow. Low end torque is king for real life street riding in my book, not peak horsepower.
Love your vids but not sure I fully agree with your comments on traction control and HP. Traction control is similar in a way to ABS, it only cuts in when the tyre starts to lose traction, therefore the use of full power is only limited by the grip of the rear tyre not by the traction control itself. Also in Oz 'B-double' trucks, an Artic with 2 trailers, is around 25 metres long and are very common on our roads and I'm not sure I would feel safe overtaking one of those at 60mph with only 30hp. You might not need to have big horsepower numbers 90% of the time but it's handy to have a bit extra for that other 10%.
My current and only bike is a 20hp XV250. I love it. My previous XSR900 had gobs more horsepower, and a quick shifter. Totally different bike for a different reason. I’ve owned a dozen newer bikes over many years, and my little 250 does fine. I’ve seen 138kph with a few mods. Cheap insurance. Cheap on fuel. Easy maintenance. More comfortable than a previous MotoGuzzi. I don’t need to impress anyone with an 800lb bagger. I don’t need racetrack performance these days, but I’m experienced enough to ride a 250 very well. 😊
A fighter pilot defined one day the good way to survive. There are 3 kinds of pilots. The one who is behind his plane. The other one who is in his plane and the last one who is ahead. Only the last one survive. Be always ahead your machine. Know it. Never discover it in case of danger.
A lightish bike with 70 or 80 bhp and just the rider, to me, is fine for just road riding. But if you want to tour 2 up and carrying luggage an extra 20 or 30 bhp should get you where you are going in comfort.
Interesting stuff thanks for that. I've always thought that the more powerful bikes were ridiculous for anything other than track racing and even then it takes a real pro to get the most from them (and, arguably, the lower powered bikes make for more interesting racing anyway). As for the Royal Enfield vids, I thought even the original official ones gave the impression of "this bike is for hooligans" with the way they were riding. That more recent one is unpleasant to watch for anyone who has experienced (or has the intelligence to imagine) the regular consequences of such riding in public. If there ever was a time in history where it was anything but stupid to ride like that on real roads, that time is long over. The amount of traffic on the roads and the state of them these days means you will meet a driver/rider doing something stupid or a pothole or whatever every few minutes. To race around at speeds where you must be relying on others to be driving/riding predictably and on the roads being in good condition is just idiotic.
Totally agree, I’ll add that I feel engine characteristics rather than power is probably more important to a rider. Some like low down rumbling torque served with lumpy vibration, others 180 degree parallel twin feel and so forth. I’m lucky enough to own several steeds and my fav on the backroads sports a 40hp 90 degree V2 that revs to 13,500, pure bliss and plenty of quick. Just one note, we Aussies tend not to speed, the vast majority travel at or just slightly above the 100-110k limits, basically because our policing is very punitive and heavily enforced.
I want just enough HP to where I can take the highway at a more than legal speed without stressing the engine out. I’m in the western US, so there is a lot of straight and lightly trafficked highway to traverse between towns and cities.
I had a BMW K1300gt which has 160 bhp and it was a monster. Kinda fun over 45 mph but truly happy over 85 mph. I traded the bike in for a couple Scram 411's to teach my son how to ride. These bikes are truly happy over 15 mph and a absolute pleasure up to 50 mph. Not sure how they are past that much as they are not rode in yet but these are far more fun than my big bike ever was.
I think the early promo clip of the RE riding abroad is intended to appeal to the younger audience that RE are trying to break into, and they seem to love riding closer to “the edge” of mortality than us older riders!
@@stuartfillingham very true Stu, it’s interesting that evidently the age gap between life expectancy in women being considerably higher than in men is not biological as I always assumed, but is actually because far more men die young (as perpetual risk takers) than women.
So true. I recognized a long time ago, that I could not be responsible with more horsepower. In fact, more power didn't equate to more pleasure. Bikes that thrill, have poise, balance, steer with ease through corners, stop well, give good road feedback, yet handle ugly road surfaces with ease, are comfortable, and don't fatigue, and have a nice spread of torque. I have 3 bikes in the shed to cater for my riding whims, a 47 hp Honda CB500X, a 90 hp Honda Transalp, 117 hp Yamaha Mt09 SP. The bike that surprises me the most is always the CB500X, it is just a happy balanced allrounder with enough power to ride anywhere!
Hi Stuart. I agree 100%. I have two bikes in my stable rated over 100HP, I am a fairly seasoned and competent rider, but there is no way I would attempt to push these bikes to anywhere near their limits. First road conditions and traffic make it very unwise to think so, secondly, very few humans could handle the full capability. I do like the weight for stability, and on our highways in the USA. (which I generally avoid because they are boring and I prefer to enjoy the ride instead of trying to get there as fast as possible) On our two lane State routes and country roads that are the most enjoyable, the Classic 350 and my vintage Honda CX500c at 20 and 51 rated HP respectively are more than enough to ride at legal and sane speeds. I feel no need to push those bikes to their limits, most riders couldn't and survive long. As you have said a good rider checks his/her EGO at the door. Stay safe, live long, and enjoy the ride.
When people complain about how much power they say they need...I ask them "How often is your speed being determined solely by how much power you have"? Of course...on ANY motorcycle there will be times when you can flog it...but those times are few and far between on the street. Being honest...the old adage "It's more fun riding a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" is actually true.
The aggressive riders aside, many people realize that they don't need too powerful of an engine but like the low end grunt of a big engine, because with a 30hp 250-300 big bore short stroke engine from Japan they will rev it out to use it and they don't like the feel that. The Japanese have big fault for that, making their bikes 99% big bore-short high rev engines to get top end and top speed. For example the feel of a RE J series 350 engine is like to ride bigger Japanese without pushing it. Another fault of the Japanese bikes they intentionally are making the smaller versions bike a bit 'not right' for you to want to get the bigger model.
Actually Honda has been pretty reliable about making bikes with square bore and strokes, check their specs for their bikes from 1970 onwards.. There are some slight changes to somewhat oversquare in their lineups from year to year. I'll say this about oversquare engines, they tend to like loafing at higher rpms whereas the Honda singles and twins were more of mid range oomph, wide torque plateau feel. Yamaha likes bikes with oversquare bore /stroke configurations, as does Kawasaki. With that configuration comes a peppy engine that likes to be spun up, also the valve sizes can be larger with less angle between the intake and exhaust valve stems which makes for a more compact engine even when using 4 valves and DOHC. The engines you are describing are by a large margin 4 valve, DOHC and short-stroke sportbike engines. Noting that most of the Suzuki 2 strokes were undersquare because of their copying the old DKW 125 post-WWII era military bikes and their Schnerle porting. It allowed for their tiddler bikes to have a broad torque curve. Even the old GT 750 Water Buffalo was long stroke. Bags of low end torque from that engine.
Absolutely right! Thank you for your research! The same problem exists for the brakes or active suspensions for example. If you NEVER ride with slicks on a circuit, you will NEVER use/need that "stopping power" they sell to you for a very high price. This stopping power is : 1. YOU 2. the state of the road 3. your tyres 4. your breaks 5. your suspensions, knowing that if ONE of these is not perfect fit (most of the time the rider...), you won't have enough "stopping power"... etc... etc... But let's not forget, dear Stuart, how we say in french : " you can't make a donkey drink if it's not thirsty" 😉 If they want to pay for the "show off" of expansive (beautiful?) bikes at the terrace it is OK... if they keep silent 😂🤣😂
This is why you are one of my favorites. No BS assessments of reality versus fiction. 👍 The old Ace Cafe’ guys got it right when they put the bulk of their efforts into reducing weight.
Excellent video. Last year I toured the length of France, over the Pyrenees (6,000 ft) and across northern Spain, with camping gear, on a 50-year old 27bhp (claimed in 1972) bike. B-road speed limits of 80/90kph were easily maintained. It was relaxing and fun.
Big without torque is great for racing, whereas modest horsepower with useable torque is very handy all round. My T-140 is probably struggling to deliver 50hp and is completely rideable and will still get you into trouble if you’re not paying attention. Whereas I have a 2013 Benelli TNT1130 R160 that’s meant to deliver somewhere around 150hp, but does this at very high RPM. It is completely devoid of modern rider aids like ABS and traction control. That one also has great torque but is unforgiving of inattention. I’ve also got a 2007 Honda CB1300 Bol D’Or, also without rider aids and a modest 115hp, but it is beautifully tractable until you wake it up, but otherwise just like a big scooter. Mountains of useable torque too. Oddly enough a few years ago I kept up with mates on a Panigale and the other on a Firelblade and they were quite surprised to see me there. I spent no time at all looking at the clocks and am unlikely to want to do this again. Just as I will never use the juice the Benelli puts out. But it’s nice to have it on tap. 👍🏻
Quite so. I haven't ridden motorbikes for some time now but in youth toured Scotland, Ireland, France on a 50hp CX500, and found that a superb touring machine with more than enough performance.
Great content Stuart, Yes you are right about how much BHP you need. Most of the high end bhp motorcycles, the power is at the top-end. It also depends on Toque and engine configuration ie V-Twins, single's and 4 inline engines. That's why parallel twins, V-twins are more popular because they have more character and have the power where you want it for road riding ie at the bottom end. I own a few bikes, Honda CB500 W reg that has 45bhp and a bmw R Nine T with 102 bhp I have just as much fun on the Honda then on the BMW. Traction control was developed by MotoGP to stop there 240bhp from spinning -out on start off being more controllable around corners and bends it only restricts bhp when the back wheel loses traction. I have Traction control on my BMW and it doesn't restriction bhp. It is a good safety feature.
Well said, i appreciate your point of view. I’ve got an R1250RS and I’ve been about 125mph on it but I don’t think I’ve even approached the max of the horsepower. I think my R1100RT was perfect at 97 horse power. But I did have a CB750 with about 50 horse power and that could keep up with the R1100RT
That’s great news , l’m a 63 year old and have just bought a royal Enfield interceptor 650 which has 47 bhp , and at my age and my ability to react to given situations this is perfectly adequate for me , no it doesn’t have ridiculous acceleration but it’s just nice for me , the days of me hanging onto the handlebars for dear life as the engine acceleration tries to pull my arms out of their sockets are well behind me . I have been thoroughly enjoying riding my interceptor at nice sedate speeds , it’s fantastic for cruising around and actually seeing the scenery rather than blasting by it .
Well said, Stuart. The same issue occurs with cars as well. I have concluded that a lot of the 'bad' driving techniques occur because today's overpowered cars actually tend to 'get there' before the driver does, a lot of the time. You yourself [given your working background] will be familiar with the expression concerning being a 'passenger' in the vehicle you are driving? My motorcycling days are probably over...partly realised when I found I couldn't get my leg over a Honda 125 without resort to those steps horse riders used to use , to mount up. Age has its drawbacks [nobody warns us about the amount of pain, getting old entails]. Given the last 20 years of my working life was spent as a specialist [their description, not mine]....at that place local to you, which you might be familiar with...{ DST ?] I do feel able to hold opinions as to driving standards...but I find I simply become more 'disappointed' with all I see...[not 'angry' in the least, just disappointed!].. Disappointed with all, including LGV /PCV drivers, Police drivers, [and emergency vehicle drivers..something many at DST were closely involved with]..Because nobody is perfect...and all one can do is to minimise the risk levels one either incurs, or generates. I don't bother anymore trying to educate, or preach, regarding the standards of driving or riding I observe....It would all be rather futile in this day & age, methinks? Ego is the driver, as you point out. Lower horsepower doesn't equate to 'slow' at all.
I went from 40 to 65BHP on bike 1. 70 to 85BHP on Bike 2. Bike 1 is 1980 and weighs 200kg. Bike 2 is 2013 and weighs 300kg. Neither rev over 6500. This suits me fine. Modern cars are very fast, and merging on a slip road or accelerating with traffic does require some oomph. I could live with 30BHP on the backroads on a 150 to 200kg bike and have great fun. Not on A and M roads though. Even Transit vans are fast, modern turbo diesel HGVs also. EVs (unless in range anxiety mode) are in another class altogether. I don't feel safe on the A1 unless I can keep up.
Thanks Stewart.... I live in the wheatbelt of Australia where even grannies (going shopping) drive at the legal top speed of 110kms on the mostly sealed roads which they share with road trains which are limited by their weight and size to 100kms....I have a small 1 ltre car which has to drive at a speed slightly faster than a road train to avoid being rear ended by one ....I try to find a spot to pull over, and find that to do so I would end up 6 feet upside down and in a ditch....As a motorcyclist too, I find that smarter bikers than me make their bigger bikes look like police bikes, to scare other road users to give them space, but my NSU 50cc Quickly cannot follow their example. This is only half a tongue in cheek to bring a smile to your day..... I always enjoy your posts....Thanks a million 🐤🐤🐤🐤🐤🐤🦘🦘🦘🦘
I have owned many motorcycles and the most fun I’ve had was on a 75hp bike weighing 149kg. I think the weight of the bike makes the biggest difference to the fun factor. Look at MX bikes, 100kg and under 50 hp. So hp is relative and cant be compared like for like. Then there are other factors like the geometry of the bike, the tires, the electronics etc
My Scrambler 400 has plenty enough power for me nowadays, I think to a certain degree with older age, comes greater wisdom, and the Scrambler's 39.5 (claimed) BHP is enough to propel the bike to about 95mph, enough to get banned anywhere... I'd rather get more from a smaller machine than buy 100bhp bike and not use half of it... then there's the weight issue... big bikes = more weight and older riders seem to be heading towards lighter, lower horsepower machines to get their jollies... if you made a graph of age to horsepower figures they would form a cross with older riders needeing decreasing BHP and younger riders wanting more. I've certainly followed this imaginary graph plot in my machine purchases over the years with progressively higher horsepower in my youth to progressively lower HP as I've aged... it comes to us all eventually I suppose... good vid Stu Ride safe...👍😎
It was great to learn about the HP you said i was thinking about that triumph speed twin 1200 cos it got 100 HP i thought it'll fast enough but i'm gonna go for the speedmaster 1200 which only has 76 HP. I'm glad i came across your video a big thank you very much.
I disagree on a few issues. 1. You do not need any specific power. You do not need a motorcycle at all. This really is not about need at all. 2. More power is comfortable and feels luxurious. The ability to ride uphill and/or at different speeds without changing gears to stay in the "correct" rev range just feels nice and relaxed. 3. On the road, somewhere between 70 and 100 hp becomes effectively "infinite" power because I never actually use the available maximum anyway. But, as mentioned above, the fact that the power I actually use is available at lower revs makes the ride a lot more pleasant. 4. The horsepower test is an apples to oranges comparison. It makes zero sense to compare the 70 actual hp to the theoretical 100 max hp that are available at one singular rev value. The fact remains that that particular motor can deliver those 70 hp in a certain rev range and a motor that has 70 hp max would not be able to do that.
Interesting video, Stuart. I've had 1100 and 1300 Pans, ZZRs, Triumph triples and a load of other bikes in my 62 years. Recently I've sold my 66 hp Vstrom 650 and bought a 24 hp Suzuki GW250 twin - the smallest bike I've had since I was 17 years old. It's fabulous! I don't think I've enjoyed riding so much for decades. I'm not going to ride the Picos mountains on it, of course, but it's everything I loved about bikes when I started riding. Hopefully more manufacturers will look at the success of the Triumph 400 and the Enfield Hunter and follow suit! Keep up the good work 👏
Good morning Stu. Good video. I do agree with you. I’ve owned bikes from a very humble 10 bhp Triumph Tiger cub up to a 160 bhp sports tourer. I had lots of fun on that Tiger cub. There is no way on earth that I could have used all that sports tourer power on the road. Owning a high power vehicle ( bike or car) is more to do with bragging rights in my opinion.
Had many bikes over 40 plus years of riding all types and genre....now have a 350 meteor and a continental 650gt...never been happier in my riding. Either to work or recreation...both bring a smile in different levels....and yes I've had a Harley-Davidson to a R1...never been more impressed by my bikes at the moment. ❤
Right on point, thank you for clarifying that, now proud owner of MG Stone v7 2014, I was thinking the same, why would anyone need more than 50 hp. Best Regards from Skopje. Have safe ride everyone.
I look at torque figures, not just the peak number but also the curve on a graph if one is available. Power is just the result of torque times RPM, plus some other numbers. An engine with a wide and linear torque curve will feel so much better on the road than a high revving peaky race engine.
VERY INTERESTING! Eye opening indeed. I'll go away and read the article you reference. I've always suspected these mega-machine are too much. I remember 40 years ago being able to easily keep up with a GSXR 750 on my 350LC except on a long straight - in the days before I grew up. My 27 BHP bike is great for all legal road uses - and it doesn't weight me down. Good work chap!
i couldnt find the actual article but i have posted a link to an account of the test by someone who was involved in it.
A 350cc 2 stroke is comparable to a 750cc 4 stroke it fires twice as often and is much lighter,
@@chrishart8548 I loved the old 2 strokes...👍
Seriously good info.
I'm in the USA. I have a 98 fatboy and an 07 fatboy.roughly 57hp and about 65 hp, respectively. More than adequate for a relaxing ride on 2 lanes, going 40-70mph.
I have a 2017 T120, my favorite bike at 79hp and great for a nice country ride and the occasional times I feel like a hooligan. My 4th bike is a 2022 himalayan,,,this beast has a seat clenching 24hp and is great at 50-60mph, but can easily go 75, but why would I want to))) I take it for relaxing country highway rides and can jump onto any gravel, dirt, or greenlane I see😊
People on CVO's ect try to tell me how nice their bikes are on interstates and that they're like sitting in an easy chair 😂😂😂. I'm 60 years old and drive a semi,, I've got over 3.5 MILLION miles in just a truck. I've seen the boring interstate. Plus, a bagger does not satisfy my "inner hooligan")))
I know people with $50,000 baggers that don't have near the fun that I have on every ride. Plus, another if them only have the skill set for riding a bagger and couldn't handle a gravel road on my powerhouse himalayan))))
@snakeman9902 me too. Bikes are supposed to be fun and 2 strokes are definitely fun.
I wish they would focus on making lighter bikes rather than just more weight and power !!
Exactly
Bang on!
They do make them. Problem is the market purchasers are of the wrong mindset so don't want to buy lower power lighter machines.
Unfortunately, bikes are like cars : added tech adds weight - abs units and catalytic converters, heavy mufflers etc
I agree and unfortunately there are two problems, 1) because of the EU regulations A1 and A2 license categories are restricted to a certain power to weight ratio. 2) using aluminum on motorcycle frame or even subframe's can Increase motorcycle prices by quite a lot which many people are not willing to pay for.
Speaking of staying within the law…it’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow
I ride my Rocket 3R at speed limits - doing so is a lot of fun...
Who's speed limit 😊@@JetCooper3D
That dosnt make sence.
As someone that has rode a great variety of bikes, this is something people tell themselves when trying to resist temptation.
@@kangacrew540 definitely makes sense!
Driving any vehicle at it’s max is always more fun then riding at it’s minimum!!
May aswell drive an auto 😢
Yeah, makes plenty of sense for fun 🤩
I went from 150hp to 20hp, and its the most fun i had in years!!
Which one do you have?
@@dertechniker8867 It's always more fun riding a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
Agreed
Bring back two strokes
Two strokes are well placed to make a comeback if they can get the emissions under control. They're actually the best engines suited for use with a catalyst because of their over scavenging of air/fuel mixture out the exhaust port, add fuel and oil injection and clean burn synthetic lube and I could see them being really low maintenance.
Its an old chestnut but, in my considerable experience (over 50yrs of riding all manner of bikes) it is far more rewarding to ride a small capacity machine briskly than to ride a large capacity machine slowly.
Agree with you on that one 👍
So true
🥱
My Himalayan 411 agrees with this post 😊
Hear hear..
I have 2 bikes. A ZZR1400 and a Honda NC750X.
The Honda is like a favourite old granddad. Reliable, cuddly, and someone I am happy to be with every day
The ZZR1400 is like the alcoholic uncle. Every meet-up is filled with laughter and raucous fun, but you just couldn't keep it up every day.
Horsepower on a motorcycle is similar. 50 is your granddad. 200 is your alcoholic uncle.
I’ve ridden for many decades with bikes of all hp ratings. These days at 68 I’m fine with my 40 hp do all bike. No rider modes, no abs, no nothing other than fuel injection. Just a raw fun daily rider bike. There is something to be said for keeping it simple and keeping life simple.
Same here, none of that stuff interfering with my riding experience and control, except my current bike claims 150 HP (must be at the crank; it loses some on the way to the rear tire if you ask me) and I'm only 64.
One of my mentors, when I was getting into bikes, had owned just about every bike ever made. Well, ok, that is an exaggeration, but he had owned all number of highly desirable, high performance bikes over the years, and he'd put a lot of miles on them. I won't bore you with the details, but through circumstance he found himself in possession of a Honda VTR 250.
He couldn't stop raving about how perfect that bike was and how he should have had one years ago, for this reason, that reason and another. It was to be his last bike. He never bought another big bike. The "little" Honda was still in his garage the day that he passed. They were about 40 hp, from memory.
Hi Stu, it’s Torque you should be looking at. You can have similar engines with the same horse power, but the better engine is the one with the better torque curve.
Peak horsepower figures mean little because horsepower = torque in ft. lb. x RPM ÷ 5252. Double either torque or RPM without the other changing, and you've doubled the horsepower. So torque and horsepower are the same thing. What we are interested in is the amount of horsepower we have within the RPM range we are riding.
Morning Stu, I agree with you, my Honda NC750 has 54 bhp and it will do everything I want it to and break every speed limit in the UK with ease.
I love the irony of all the manufacturers adding more and more capacity and horsepower to the engine, but then calming it all down with electronic traction controls, lol.
I recently got to test ride 2 triumphs, on the same route with a group of other triumphs. I rode the Explorer 1200 first then the Scrambler 400. As nice and enjoyable as the 1200 was, it was the 400 that really made me grin. At no point did the 660cc sportsbike in the group leave me behind, bearing in mind this was at legal road speeds, but i felt so much more accomplished and thrilled on the 400cc bike.
The usual excuse from certain riders is " they need the power to get out of trouble". Well how about doing some further training so you don't get into trouble?
Lol tell that to the driver on their phone that breaks hard because they looked up EXACTLY when it turned yellow and assumed it was about to go red, 20 yards from the damn intersection.
@@logangodofcandy and how does horsepower help out anyone in that situation?
I hear that all the time. I have yet to hear an explanation of how any "trouble" you get into would be mitigated by going faster.
Most crashes happen by taking turns too fast and running into intersections.
@@radekknauer2891 If someone is intent on colliding with you, you can adjust YOUR course; that is in your control. You can brake (rearward acceleration) - depending on your skill and your bikes and tires braking ability (no HP required), you can swerve (sideways acceleration) - depending your skill and your bikes ability (no HP requied) and you can accelerate forward out of the way (skill, ability and HP required). You use a combination of the above, HP comes into it when forward acceleration is used. Less HP means diminished options for course correction.
@@Andy_ATB even my ancient T-140 with somewhere around 50hp allows me to accelerate to pass erratic drivers or find clear road ahead of potential hazards and bunched-up traffic as it’s still a quick bike in most real situations and can still do “the ton” if you’re silly enough. Having really dynamic performance as with my Benelli 1130 R160, or even my CB1300 allows more choices to select one’s safe place in traffic. But using the full potential to generate absolute speed will get you killed. As a wise friend once said to me “you can always ride a fast bike slow”. However, the reverse never applies. I’ll take torque over absolute horsepower every time! These things are not the same, and the road and traffic conditions and one’s skill are the limiter. 👍🏻🙂
The latest BMW GS is a case in point, they’ve upped the horsepower once again but they have removed nearly everything which made the bike desirable in the first place, lol. I’ve ridden nearly 250,000 miles by motorcycle in my life so far and the best rides I’ve had in that time have been between the speeds of 50-60mph, excess speed creates far more potential for death and removes all the pleasure for me, I suspect this is true for most if they’re honest! Consequently I agree with the premise of this film! 👏👍😀🏍
I have ridden and raced motorcycles for over 50 years, and as many of you know, rider skill counts far more than horsepower!
Right on, Stu!
Great video, thanks Stuart. I can't argue with a word you say. But on the other hand my bike is 200+ horsepower (or so they say) and I love it. To my mind the modern sports bike is the pinicle of the development of the motorcycle and it ticks all those 'biker boxes'. It is fun to ride at legal speeds, the build quality is superb and it is definitely a bike that one turns back to look at when leaving it parked up. I may have spent £10,000 on horse power that I'll never use but as we all know biking is so much more than simply getting from A to B.
I totally agree I have a 210hp BMW M1000r I fully get I can’t use all that HP on the road but like you say the engineering that goes into these machines to get these massive HP is amazing you again like you say ride at road legal speeds and still have fun the BMW as the shift cam system that works at all RPM’s I wouldn’t get anything like the buzz I get on a smaller motorcycle.
What are you going to do with all that excess power? All you can do is accelerate to barely 2nd gear and you are already over the speed limit so you have to slow down again. Why not do a few track days. If all you want out of a bike is tech sophistication and xxxx horsepower take it to the race track. You clearly do not know how to enjoy just being in an agreeable landscape and the passing scenery wafting by while on two wheels.
@@fingerhorn4 Or, maybe you're just too poor to afford a decent bike and so you ride a clapped out piece of garbage (when it actually starts) and you're jealous.
See how easy it is to jump to ridiculous conclusions? Ride your own ride and let others enjoy their own ride as long as they aren't endangering others. Riding is about having fun. If you aren't having fun while riding just take a car.
@@fingerhorn4 Actually I do know how to 'enjoy an agreeable landscape'. My first love is cycling (and before you jump to another erroneous conclusion, I don't ride in a group) where incidentally the peaceful moment can be spoiled just as much by an old duffer on an adequately powered bike as it can by a boy racer on a sports bike. 😊
I just sold my big heavy ninja 1000sx. Amazing bike but just far too much bike for me. Ive ordered a ninja 500 to replace it. Thats plenty for me.
Aussie here. I own the Himalayan 450 and an XJR1300. The XJR at 100hp is great on long windy roads and feels great when it pulls like a train. Nothing to do with how much hp I need. More about how it makes me feel. On the other hand, my Himalayan 450 is a hoot to ride working through all the gears. Both satisfying in different ways. So to say you don't need 100hp+ is missing the point. Just as we don't "need" motorcycles when we have cars, - we still do. I like the way my 100hp bike feels, that's why I ride it. I like the way my 40hp bike feels, that's why I ride it.
I definitely agree with your comment I have a 54hp motorcycle at the moment with 140k miles on the clock and I'm looking to get a 2nd motorcycle with 100+ hp is not that I need all that hp is how makes you feel and is nice to know that if you need extra power is there. My 54hp motorcycle can't keep up with modern 2L+ cars in my opinion you need at least 70hp, torque is directly correlated with hp in a way more hp more torque less hp less torque. Usually high hp motorcycle have more comfort better suspension better tyres better brakes and so on.
I own a Kawasaki zx12r with around 175 hp and 135 Nm of torque, and a new BSA Gold Star with 45 hp and 55 Nm of torque. The BSA has plenty of power for road riding, whereas the zx12r often feels like too much, especially with the state of UK roads and proliferation of 50 mph limits. After chasing hp all my biking life, I was sceptical that 45 hp would be enough bike for macho me with my 40+ year's riding experience and having spent the last 19 of those on the zx12r. How wrong I was. The term "less is more" couldn't be more apt in this case. Last time I enjoyed my riding this much was on a Suzuki 250x7 back in 1982, and that had around 30 hp and 27 Nm of torque. The BSA can out accelerate most cars, and I can definitely keep up with less experienced riders on much more powerful bikes through the twisties.
So are you selling your ZX12R?
@johnevans306 I probably would if it was worth anything. Mine's a 2 owner 2003 with less than 15k on the clock in very good condition, but I'd be lucky to get £2k for it as a private sale and only £1.5k part exchange (if any dealer was prepared to accept it that is). I've owned it for 19 years, so it has sentimental value to me and I'd rather keep it to ride occasionally rather than sell it for peanuts.
+1 Jerry. Like you I’ve had plenty of big engined bikes but nowadays at 55 I’ve knocked that on the head. With lower speeds on the roads virtually everywhere and cameras of course, comfort is my no 1 priority on two wheels because I just don’t need high performance anymore.
Zx 12r. 😍 now your talking 😂
I have downsized to a Triumph Speed 400, I have found it perfect for my needs at 40hp, and only 170kg, does everything I need from a bike.
I have never owned a bike with more than 70 bhp. And it had never stopped me from going places, taking long journeys to the other side of the continent. The first time I did it was on the back of a Honda shadow with 45 ponies. I myself am a big man, tal and heavy, and that bike hauled my ass and all the luggage effortlessly. And now I'm amazed of how well the little RE Classic 350 is able to perform the same task without breaking a sweat. Really amazing.
I'm afraid the standard of driving in this country has dropped to an all time low across the board, from motorcyclists right through to heavy goods. Which is astonishing considering the added hurdles one has to perform to aquire a licence these days. And it has to be said, I dont see many police officers setting a good example either.
I used to ride a 125 that would happily propel this 15 stone man at 60mph. It just lacked the torque to do it up hill.
Totally agree about the standard of driving,not quite sure about your comment about the police force ,I wouldn’t have their job nowadays when I look at the state of behaviour nowadays I think people should behave better.
@@GeorgeShepherd-c1l my comment is directed at their standard of driving particularly on the motorway. 20 years ago the traffic officers were amoung the best drivers and probably the most decent coppers on the force. Since the introduction of the highway patrol or "plastic policeman" the numbers of traffic police have been dramatically reduced. Every day I see those that are left perform maneuvers that would see the rest of us sat before a magistrate. Whatever happened to lead by example??
I weigh 240 pounds, and can ride up a 15% grade for over 10 miles, on a 50cc 2 speed pedal moped. Yes, my speed drops to 5-6 mph, but because first gear is so low, the engine is running near redline, which is where small engines make their power. Any bike with a manual transmission can climb any hill, or mountain, in first gear. It may be barely moving, but as long as you can keep the engine rpms up it will keep going. A CVT scooter is a whole nother matter. I tried to ride a 125cc scooter up a very slight grade, and it bogged badly. The rpms kept dropping, and it was lugging the engine badly. There is no way to downshift a CVT, and it won't downshift itself when climbing. A manual transmission is the key to climbing on a small bike.
Re police riders, i have to agree the standaed seems to be falling. Ive seen plenty of poor riding technique on show from the police. Dont even get me started on our heroes in IAM Roadsmart......
Love the term "acquire a licence" seems apt that's if they actually have a physical driving licence 🤣🤣
Having ridden bikes from 20 to 120 horsepower I wholeheartedly agree. 30-50 horsepower is the sweet spot 😊
I would have kept my Honda CB500X with 47HP as it did everything I needed, but the buzzing/ vibrations at higher speeds was driving me nuts.
Having ridden bikes from 6 to 150 horsepower I wholeheartedly disagree. 105.6 horsepower is the sweet spot. :D
I'll give a bit of a concession to those that do big freeway miles. I was quite impressed with my mates ST1100 on the few occasions that I rode it, but it was too much for 90% of the riding that I do. He offered me that bike for a song when I last purchased a motorcycle. I politely declined his generous offer and went out and paid exactly 4 times as much for a bike with a bit less than half the power, and I couldn't be happier. 50 hp is easy to ride around town, great on b roads and enough to get you up the freeway occasionally.
@@67mooncat My NX500 which is basically the same bike doesn't buzz or vibrate at all. But I shift at 6K rpm and rarely go faster than 130 km/h.
@@PrimoStracciatella I bought my bike 5 years ago and sold it after a year. The CB500X was well known for being buzzy at speed. Perhaps Honda have finally got the message and did something to cure it. Enjoy the bike.
One could argue that, you only need a Casio watch, worth £5.00 and save a whole lot of money to keep in the bank! 😊
I used to have a couple of those over the years. Held accurate time. That's what it was for.
@@BobTaylorCruising my point, precisely.
Let me guess - baby boomer? While I am x generation and style and having the best looking, most comfortable and something that really is quite something as opposed to cheap and nasty is more important than saving a few dollars.
I don't think that the Yamahas or Kawasakis that I've ridden in the past as being cheap or nasty. I never needed a liter bike or wanted a v-twin cruiser of any kind and it's still not my style. Middleweight bikes have served me well over the years. I spend more of my time on back roads than interstates anyway.@@boundlessone
The video doesn’t make mention of quality. He’s not saying “go out and buy a 10 year old poor quality Chinese 125” is he? Depends on your definition of quality I suppose 😂
When I passed my licence 4 years ago I bought myself a Honda Hornet ( about 100bhp) one of the reasonings behind this was why would I buy a A2 power bike when I had a full license ( as it turns out it was naivety!) I never really gelled with the bike, I ride back roads 99% of the time ,the bike always wanted to go faster, and I could easily break most speed limits in second or third gear. Eventually I decided to get a new bike as I had fallen in love with Modern Retros. After much research I got my bikes down to two. The Moto Guzzi V7 Special or the Kawasaki W800. I had always favoured the W800 but at 47 horsepower I was convinced I would get frustrated, the Moto Guzzi has 65 which to me seems a better proposition. Anyway after much agonising I went for the W800 and it was the best decision I could have made. 47 bhp is perfect for me and my confidence and enjoyment has grown exponentially since having the new bike. I would say to any new full license riders, don't fall in to the trap of thinking you have to have 70+ horsepower just because you have like me been brainwashed by media and social media groups. Get a bike with the right amount of power for you, it makes the world of difference.
Brilliant. Torque down low in the rev range is better than power at the top of the rev range that you never ever reach on the roads. Took me a few years and bikes to figure it out though 🤣👍.
@@simonhall5086 "Took me a few years and bikes to figure it out though" The same happened to me...😎
I had a w650, a great bike, the 800 is better
It depends on where you live and where you plan to ride. In the U.S., if you plan on riding on the interstates, you NEED a bike that is capable of at least 100 mph, or more. I have two bikes that fit that description. Both make between 66 and 72 advertised hp, and will do between 120-125 mph. Both are cruiser style bikes. Both carbureted, no flat black. I generally ride in the right lane, at around 65 mph, 10 mph under the speed limit. But you need a lot more than that to keep from getting run over. Not only do you need a high top speed, you need good acceleration. Pretty much everybody goes 85-95 mph on interstate highways here, and traffic laws are NOT enforced. The cops don't even attempt to enforce them. It's just a free for all, and there are a lot of accidents. So if you see someone coming up behind you fast, you need enough acceleration and top speed to outrun them. I also have three other bikes, also carbureted and not flat black, that range between an advertised 20 and 35 hp. Even the 20 hp 250cc bike will do 85 mph, but that's at full throttle on a flat road, with nothing in reserve. I wouldn't even consider riding that bike on the interstate. You would likely be killed fairly quickly.
The key words I noticed from your video are "road legal speeds". NOBODY in the U.S. even knows what that means. Most of them are going 20 mph to 30 mph OVER "road legal speeds". I never knew what "horsepower" meant either. When it comes to performance in a straight line, I judge a bike by its top speed and acceleration, measured by GPS. I know what my bikes are capable of as far as acceleration and top speed, because I have actually tested them, in a safe location of course. None of them have any kind of traction control, or ABS, or computerized anything.
Power and acceleration are not always related to engine size or advertised hp. My Honda 250cc twin will cruise all day at 85 mph, on a flat road with no headwind, but my 500cc Royal Enfield single has a maximum usable top speed of 55 mph. Yes it will go faster, but probably not for very long before it blew up. And while it is extremely enjoyable to ride at 55 mph in top gear, that enjoyment quickly goes away at speeds much above that.
I do not consider myself an "expert rider". I'm not sure exactly what that means. I started riding at age 8, on a Bultaco 100cc dirt bike. I learned how to do wheelies, jumps, and slides off road. I have ridden dirt bikes my entire life, up until a few years ago, when it became physically unable to get on or off one due to the extreme seat height. I am also now physically incapable of repairing a flat tube type tire by myself anymore, and riding in the Arizona desert, the only place there is to ride a dirt bike where I live, I had always gotten a lot of flat tires, due to a particular type of thorn we have here, called a goathead. I got my license and first street bike at age 16, have owned over 40 motorcycles in my life, counting the five I have now, and ridden over one million miles, mostly on open highways, without a single accident. I am NOT a roadracer, which most riders here in the U.S. seem to think they are, and have never owned a crotch rocket type bike.
oh god its gone up! years of been told 80 is the minimum, then 90, now 100 or more!
@@stuartfillingham When I was 16, and first started riding on the street, the speed limit was 55 mph, and it was rigidly enforced. Now it is 75 mph, 80 in some places, and is not enforced at all. Nobody has any fear of being stopped for speeding. The highways have become racetracks. I don't know if it's just in the U.S. or not.
I think i see the problem. When people are going faster than me i let them PASS me. I have never had the need to go 80 mph+ on or in any type of vehicle. Staying in front of someone who is driving like a bat out of hell is definately not the smartest thing to do outside of racing. Ride your ride but please don't become a danger to others and blame it on someone else.
I also live in the USA IHave owned so many bike I lost count the 1800 VTX was one
I now own a RE INTERCEPTOR 47 Hp
I can keep up with anything on the road if needed but i choose not to. And I for one will never go back to a so called big boy bike l Ike my Harley Ultra
@@darrellhendrix5502 Doesn't work in my state and most others. I have been rear ended three times while driving 65 mph in the right lane, once while driving a large white box truck. That truck looked like a semi from the rear. The idiot that hit me was going so fast that their vehicle was completely destroyed, and three occupants were severely injured. They had to be doing 90 mph+. They had the left lane to pass in, but likely never saw me, due to being distracted. Just about everybody sets their cruise control well over the speed limit, then plays with their phone while they are supposed to be driving.
The German word that is abbreviated to "PS" is "Pferdestärke". "Pferd" is the German word for "horse" and "Stärke" is the German word for "power". It literally means the same.
interesting.
In Dutch "PK'' - Paardenkracht , translates to horsepower
❤
I would add that kw numbers are less than horsepower numbers, as 1 kw = around 1,35 hp so this argument doesn't work really
@@radekknauer2891 kilowatts is a measure of electricity. A kilowatt is simply a measure of how much power an electric appliance consumes.
It's same same, just after conversion its hp. And the OP is not making an argument. He has stated a fact.
I’m in the US. I ride a 600cc Honda Shadow. Drives me nuts when everyone tells me I need a bigger motorcycle! It’s always, “aren’t you worried you’re going to get run over from behind on the fast interstate highways?” First of all, with my 600cc motorcycle making 34hp I’m able to exceed the speed limit on any road in the country. Secondly, the vehicles coming up from behind me are looking out of their windshield at me. They are aware of me, and my exact location, more than any other drivers on the road. If I’m coming up from behind other traffic, particularly if I’m exceeding the speed limit, the vehicles ahead of me have no idea I’m there! That poses significantly more danger to me than any vehicle approaching me from behind. I’ve decided that most people cannot get their thick head around the fact that the vehicles they cannot see are less dangerous than the vehicles they can see.
So you are relying on drivers coming up on you from behind to see you. I admire your confidence and faith in your fellow humans.
@@GhostRider020 When we ride on the public roads, yes we are counting on our fellow humans.
Someone approaching from behind, even if they are exceeding the speed limit, is looking out their windshield at you and only approaching you at maybe 5-10mph. If you don’t want anyone to pass you, then you must ride faster than the traffic. In that case, you are going to need to exceed the speed limit by 10-20mph. You are then relying on everyone ahead of you to see you, and accurately judge your speed, when they glance in their mirrors. I’d take my chances with the person looking out of their windshield, but we all get to pick our poison.
When I travelled the USA for the first time in 1985 bikers would say that a 650 is a beginner's bike and for girls. I couldn't believe it!
My first bike was an old CB360 (with points) I bought for 250 bucks, I had a great time on it!
@@clarson2916 No. I am relying on me seeing them and what they do and being prepared and able to avoid them. Just like a skier on a ski hill not hitting the skiers ahead of them. Only difference is my bike has mirrors so I have an easier time keeping track of what's behind me.
@@GhostRider020 I’d argue that’s a false sense of security. Extra speed makes bad things happen faster, and with more devastating consequences. But, like I said, we all get to choose our own poison.
While I was riding my Vespa towards skipton one of these powerful bikes passed me at a ridiculous speed, but the bit that annoyed me is how close to me he was when he passed (totally unnecessary).
When he got to the roundabout up ahead, for reasons I still can’t quite understand he tipped over and fell off, I would have had sympathy if I wasn’t busy laughing my arse off.
I remember being in the back of an Army lorry, the sort with the canvas covers. We were being driven to a firing range. Anyway, these 3 bikers roared up behind the lorry and started shouting at us, and giving us the V-sign. Obviously, we returned fire, and it was quite good fun, with just a spicy edge to it. They soon roared past. Well, a mile-or-two further on, we drove around this sweeping bend to find all three of these characters in an untidy heap on the side of the embankment. It was a delicious moment in an otherwise dull day.
Cheers Stuart. I was surprised to see the new RE Gorilla promo video ... I'd have thought they would have had more sense. I guess they are trying to appeal to the lunatic fringe as well as the more 'traditional' rider. When you switched from their footage to yours i actually felt my stress level drop. Keep up the good work sir.
What’s interesting is that seems like a beginner bike to me. If they are suggesting riding like that to beginners, they will crash. Sorry but it’s either that or close calls that will make them quit riding altogether
I’m a rider of over 45 years on bikes on the road & am constantly amazed of the fixation of the entire motorcycle world on hp. It’s engine torque, low to midrange 3/4 of the throttle that’s the most important on the roads. It’s just common sense that for most of every bikes time on the road your not anywhere near the max hp. But your in your max torque range where you spend most of your time. High torque over a large rev range at the expense of hp is far more beneficial on the road. Hp figures are for the track.
Anyone who gets distracted for the first few minutes will be thinking "Blimey, not Stuart's usual riding style, he must have a right bee in his bonnet this week" 😮 ...😂😂😂
Funny that this rider was not smooth at all and wasn't really going all that fast, averaging about 80 to 95 KPH which is about 45 to 57 mph. The choices he made of speeding in a 30 KPH zone were stupid, most intersection turn lane accidents are from some idiot trying to pass in a turn left lane.
I don't need more HP, but torques are never too many 😊
Just enjoy the bike that you want to ride. That's what 54 years in the saddle taught me. Safe riding and stay lucky, that helps too 👍.
Well until the torque applied, just to the rear wheel, causes the front wheel to part company with the road. 😜
Can't have one without the other...
Same here: a nice amount of Nm (but again not too much) across the rpm range (preferable at very low rpm). Not interested in hp / kW.
I don't think you belong to this scooter club. 😅😅😅
I'm glad you posted this. I watched this footage on your previous video in disbelief with my eyes half shut waiting on the inevitable. I have two bikes. One is a triumph scrambler 1200 xe and the other a 1979 triumph t140. I have just returned the scrambler to triumph after two years of ownership and only 850 miles down. I have been riding for over 30 years but power no longer does it for me and every time I grab the keys it's the old classic that comes with me. The only Bonnie will stay with me until the government stop providing me with petrol. I guess I'll make a plant pot or something out of it after that. It takes a while to realise that horsepower isn't what it's about but when you do it's such a relief. Thanks for the video.
Back in the late 80's I led a bike club ride out on a 27bhp bike. All the other bikes were 50-90bhp. At the first stop they asked me to slow down as they were struggling to keep up! Now own an Interceptor 650 47bhp which as you say is perfect for all road conditions, no need for anymore.
I was on a very similar ride out following a Ducati 250!
Stu well said.Driver and rider discipline has really nosedived recently as has behaviour in general life you just have to look what has happened in our once lovely country in the last couple of weeks.Ride safe everybody and thanks Stu for all your videos.
I ride a 25hp bike, I'm happy with that, and my wife and I 2up on it on long trips.
I find that the 24bhp the 411 Scram to be perfectly fine for real world use. The low end torque is great, and the smiles per hour off the charts! I don't have to constantly exercise restraint as it's easily kept below legal limits. I relax and enjoy the ride and my surroundings! Sometimes less, is most definitely more! Uncle Stu on the nose, once again!
Good video, my bikes range from 9.5 to 117 bhp . But i agree 50 bhp is enough for the road to stay legal . I have owned a 194 bhp busa and a 170 bhp blade too , they are exciting but you are always waiting for a speeding ticket to drop through the letterbox, personally i like a 100 bhp bike . That's what my first bike had , a cbr600f, but most motorcyclists like a bit more speed occasionally
You are absolutely right. When I took my license in 1974 the superbike of the day was the iconic Honda CB750. With 68 horsepower! My current bike I bought in 2012, used. It is a 750cc Kawasaki with 66hp (had to google it to be sure) and in my mind it is a big bike and I am still happy with it. In fact it gets a new battery later today. Sometimes at biker cafes and other gatherings there are discussions about this topic. it is slightly comic when middle aged men argue about their bikes and 100hp here and 130 or more hp there fly in the air. Sometimes somebody asks me how much I have and my standard answer is that I have enough. You know why.
Great video. I ride a 2016 africa twin with a claimed 94 horsepower and find that plenty. What i think actually matters are the torque figures.
I have ridden the recently released transalp and while it has similar horsepower it falls down on the torque figure and that is what you notice it simply doesnt have the same shove. When manufacturers produce bikes with bigger and bigger horsepower figures that will inherently come with bigger torque and thats what anyone who rides motorcycles feels. You can't feel horsepower but you can feel torque
My father gave me his 2001 FJR1300 since he doesn't ride anymore, the bike has 144hp, my best friend has a 47hp mt03 660.
We both use our bikes for commuting and having fun in the weekends, i never find myself in a situation where i can safely go faster than him except for straight lines, plus his bike is lighter and more manageable. I'm considering buying a triumph 900, guzzi v7, interceptor 650 or xsr700 as my next bike as i proved to myself that (at least for me) more than 60/70 hp don't serve any purpose.
I also travel quite a lot and my 47hp Benelli TRK502X did an amazing job at that back in 2022/2023.
I can't even accelerate that much because since this bike doesn't have any electronic control the rear tire spins or the front wheel lifts.
A thing that the fjr is very good at is chugging fuel like crazy, i can't do more than 16km/L.
I have come to grips with the fact that I am a mediocre rider. I am older and ride carefully, at a modest tempo and maintain distances between cars in front and back, giving me time to correct errors in judgement and failure of skill. I am enjoying my 20HP RE Classic 350, I wish it had 25 HP but no more than that. My "Fast bike" has 30 HP. My "Big Bike" has 40 HP. MORE than enough for me.
@@stevenmiller184 I consider that as riding safely. I feel lucky just being able to still ride at my age (67). It's easier avoiding mayhem thay way than adding power to go around most of the time. On many small roads it's just not an option to throttle out.
@@BobTaylorCruising As I age, I allow more space and increase awareness.
I often find myself bimbling along quite slowly on country roads, it's a new thing with me, and I'm enjoying it. In fact I've had to become more alert to what's behind me and am wondering if some some sort of proximity warning gadget exists, other than the mirrors.
Retired Police officer here it's called winning the DARWIN award use to see it every week bodies wrapped around things is the other term.
I bet you took some risks on the road in your time 😂
My current ride is a Honda cb500x which is my first big bike and it has 47bhp it does everything I want it to and I don't feel its trying to kill me. I don't see the point of a bigger bike when I can get 95mpg on average from mine.
I have a toy bike Honda CB500X here in Canada too - great for the easy pace of life and gravel roads we are surrounded by 👍
I've had this conversation with my local Royal Enfield dealer recently. It's the same thing everywhere, be it horsepower, megapixels or any other ego inflating thingy. Very insightful, thanks for sharing.
It's easy to get sucked into the powerband and become a knucklehead and begin to spout manufacturers spec about how much is needed for XYZ riding. I own an XR 150L and with 12 horsepower, (really around 9), I find it's fully adequate to propel my 230 lbs quite well most places I travel. Yes it doesn't have any grunt for overtaking and speed is lacking at best : however it's all I need most days. If I need more speed I ride my Harley, which lots of folk claim is also only good for "around town". It's rated at 53 HP and has no trouble doing 80+ mph which in my 67 year old brain says is over the limit of need. Great video my brother
Elementary aerodynamic drag: to double terminal velocity you need 8 times the power for the same drag coefficient. Or to put it another way if you halve the power the terminal velocity is reduced by 21%. (Rolling resistance etc means this sum is a little approximate). Drag varies with speed squared, power is drag times speed.
Agree with you Stuart , I’ve been riding 53 years and had bikes R1 s , Fireblades and plenty big tourers fjr 1300 ae with 150 hp plus, and never used all that hp , even after a track day a Brands Hatch. You never need it all , I’ve now got a triumph tiger 660 sport with only 80 bhp , nice and light ( because of my age😊🤣) but just perfect power and handling , because I live on the Isle of Wight your lucky if you get to 60 mph , to many blind bends and any faster you’ll be in the sea everywhere 😂😂😂 , good article.😊👍👍
Really interesting, thank you. I've owned bikes of all sizes, I genuinely find the 47 - 65bhp power area the most enjoyable which is great as there are seemingly more bikes in this group released every day.
the first bike I ever rode was a 1949 Indian Chief with around 1200cc and 39 hp. I almost pissed myself when I saw a youtuber questioning whether an Indian scout sixty was a good beginners bike.
998cc and 78 hp.
78hp. Just go back and have a look at 70's superbikes. Most of those struggled to get to that sort of power.
You are right about that video and the riders complete disregard to road users and the law. I'm surprised a manufacturer would use such a video to promote.
I think HP don't really matter, I'm more into torque , however I like a bike with a bit more than enough simply because it is all down to the rider.
Me on my KTM1290 have 160HP, but that bike is ridden safe as I'm an experienced rider, but take an 18 year old on the same bike.
Good video mate.
Dan
I think what people actually like in a powerful bike is a torquie and wide spread power band. I have a R NineT witch puts out around 110hp or something like that. it's a fun bike because of the power characteristics rather than the share power. If you in mountain passes with a lot of up hill climbs and tight corners needing to power out of it make a felt difference over my old SFV650 which around 70hp from memory.
@@williamk6267 more skill with the throttle and gears when HP is lower though
Another excellent video Stuart. I completely agree with what you said. Having owned 4 bikes at the same time with 50, 60, 75 and 115 BHP. I used the 50 for long distance riding to Bulgaria and Greece. The 115 never left this country and I found I usually only needed a maximum of half throttle and changed gear at 5000 rpm and even so I was charging about the countryside too fast.
The one thing higher horsepower gives you with a car or bike can bike is the gearing can be set so the engine is turning over relatively slowly at motorway speeds to give long life.
Absolutely spot on! Been riding since 1978 , I have a Scram 411 at 24bhp and it’s just perfect for pretty much everything except prolonged motorway stuff. I’ve got a Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. I’m in rural Mid Wales and the deaths by inexperienced motorcyclists or one that foolishly believe they can ride their crotch rockets are now a weekly occurrence . I’ll stick with my Scram and V7 thanks.
It really isn't about "how much power you need". I've been riding the road for 53 years & have been riding offroad for 60 years. I can tell you that as my skills have grown I have come to appreciate too much power, too much braking ability & better handling than I can ever fully appreciate. It allows me to push my ride experience without "running out of bike". The key is being mature enough to know your own limits & where it is reasonable to explore the bike's capability. It is fun to go fast on a slow bike, but be aware, that bike's limitations can sneak up on you & bite you in the azz when you have not reached your own limits.
Hi Stu, very interesting video.
This rider's skill is breathtaking in it's total absence.
My last touring motorcycle was a Yamaha FJR 1300. Top speed in excess of 154 MPH & 0-60 MPH: 2.7 Seconds. 145bhp. Fuel consumption never better than 51 mpg. My latest tourer is a Yamaha Tmax 530. This amazing machine delivers a top speed of over 100 mph, or so I'm told, and a 0-60 time of less than 8 seconds. 45.9 bhp.The fuel figures are consistently in excess of 70 mpg and let me assure you I do not dawdle along.
So, how much horse power do I really need? Apparently no more than 45.9 bhp.
Ride safe my friend.
I've kissed goodbye to large 3:18 CC/HP bikes and bought the Meteor, all 20hp of it. Was a bit worried it be a bit breathless. I love its lack of massive hp, I no longer feel the need to overtake....because I can! I rarely go over 60 and have loads of fun at around 50, I've always been a cautious rider but this bike forces you to be. I see other riders overtaking in fairly sketchy situations and just think, yea I may have done that with 100hp, but no more thankfully.
My friend here in india bought a BMW 850 gsa last year. Uses it to go to work in crazy indian traffic and once in a while rides out on longer rides. Doesn't like going offroad, so the gsa is useless. Couldve bought a tiger 900 gt or a tiger 660 and saved money. But bmw branding apparently is of a lot of importance. Absolutely pointless purchase apart from it providing a feeling of accomplishment of being able to afford it.
Another thing to consider is power to weight ratio. A 50hp motorcycle is pretty equivalent to a lighweight, peppery sports hatchback with up to 200hp. It may not be the fastest car out there but it is fun to drive and does overtakes really well. How much more power does one need on streets really. I get it, bikes and cars are much like ones penis, you may think that it is always better to have a bigger one but in reality that is not the case.
More important is how that 50hp is produced. 50hp from a small cc engine that you need to stress the hell out of it to make it move quickly and it screams on a highway to the point that you feel like the engine is going to blow. That is not good and why some people say 50hp is not enough for highway riding (which is pure bollocks). Compared to the same 50hp from big cc long stroke engine which by numbers produces the same horsepower but it does it so in relaxed fashion and without stress and you are always on a good power band to do those quick overtakes while at the same time the engine isn't screaling like it is about to blow. Low end torque is king for real life street riding in my book, not peak horsepower.
Yet another excellent watch, much appreciated, lots of home truths.
Love your vids but not sure I fully agree with your comments on traction control and HP. Traction control is similar in a way to ABS, it only cuts in when the tyre starts to lose traction, therefore the use of full power is only limited by the grip of the rear tyre not by the traction control itself. Also in Oz 'B-double' trucks, an Artic with 2 trailers, is around 25 metres long and are very common on our roads and I'm not sure I would feel safe overtaking one of those at 60mph with only 30hp. You might not need to have big horsepower numbers 90% of the time but it's handy to have a bit extra for that other 10%.
not me you are disagreeing with. youre disagreeing with the evidence.
My current and only bike is a 20hp XV250. I love it.
My previous XSR900 had gobs more horsepower, and a quick shifter.
Totally different bike for a different reason.
I’ve owned a dozen newer bikes over many years, and my little 250 does fine.
I’ve seen 138kph with a few mods. Cheap insurance. Cheap on fuel. Easy maintenance. More comfortable than a previous MotoGuzzi. I don’t need to impress anyone with an 800lb bagger. I don’t need racetrack performance these days, but I’m experienced enough to ride a 250 very well.
😊
:-)) couldn't agree more ... my himalayan 411 (28hp) is quite ok at 70mph! brilliant video as usual!
A fighter pilot defined one day the good way to survive. There are 3 kinds of pilots. The one who is behind his plane. The other one who is in his plane and the last one who is ahead. Only the last one survive. Be always ahead your machine. Know it. Never discover it in case of danger.
Well done uncle Stu, Great vlog this and some fascinating facts to be had. 👍
A lightish bike with 70 or 80 bhp and just the rider, to me, is fine for just road riding. But if you want to tour 2 up and carrying luggage an extra 20 or 30 bhp should get you where you are going in comfort.
Interesting stuff thanks for that. I've always thought that the more powerful bikes were ridiculous for anything other than track racing and even then it takes a real pro to get the most from them (and, arguably, the lower powered bikes make for more interesting racing anyway).
As for the Royal Enfield vids, I thought even the original official ones gave the impression of "this bike is for hooligans" with the way they were riding. That more recent one is unpleasant to watch for anyone who has experienced (or has the intelligence to imagine) the regular consequences of such riding in public.
If there ever was a time in history where it was anything but stupid to ride like that on real roads, that time is long over.
The amount of traffic on the roads and the state of them these days means you will meet a driver/rider doing something stupid or a pothole or whatever every few minutes.
To race around at speeds where you must be relying on others to be driving/riding predictably and on the roads being in good condition is just idiotic.
Totally agree, I’ll add that I feel engine characteristics rather than power is probably more important to a rider. Some like low down rumbling torque served with lumpy vibration, others 180 degree parallel twin feel and so forth.
I’m lucky enough to own several steeds and my fav on the backroads sports a 40hp 90 degree V2 that revs to 13,500, pure bliss and plenty of quick.
Just one note, we Aussies tend not to speed, the vast majority travel at or just slightly above the 100-110k limits, basically because our policing is very punitive and heavily enforced.
Thank you for a sane video about what you really need in your motorcycle. I just hope people listen to your wise advice.
I want just enough HP to where I can take the highway at a more than legal speed without stressing the engine out. I’m in the western US, so there is a lot of straight and lightly trafficked highway to traverse between towns and cities.
I had a BMW K1300gt which has 160 bhp and it was a monster. Kinda fun over 45 mph but truly happy over 85 mph.
I traded the bike in for a couple Scram 411's to teach my son how to ride. These bikes are truly happy over 15 mph and a absolute pleasure up to 50 mph. Not sure how they are past that much as they are not rode in yet but these are far more fun than my big bike ever was.
I think the early promo clip of the RE riding abroad is intended to appeal to the younger audience that RE are trying to break into, and they seem to love riding closer to “the edge” of mortality than us older riders!
yes , right up to the point when they reach mortality!
@@stuartfillingham very true Stu, it’s interesting that evidently the age gap between life expectancy in women being considerably higher than in men is not biological as I always assumed, but is actually because far more men die young (as perpetual risk takers) than women.
I ride a 50 hp 650 single gs, been all around UK, Europe and the Balkans with full camping gear, never needed more power.
I'm a big single man too, HP is null and void on same, its all about the torque.
True Stuart, it's all marketing, same with everything, I have around 68hp in my vstrom, it has plenty of torque for overtaking, no need for any more.
So true. I recognized a long time ago, that I could not be responsible with more horsepower. In fact, more power didn't equate to more pleasure. Bikes that thrill, have poise, balance, steer with ease through corners, stop well, give good road feedback, yet handle ugly road surfaces with ease, are comfortable, and don't fatigue, and have a nice spread of torque. I have 3 bikes in the shed to cater for my riding whims, a 47 hp Honda CB500X, a 90 hp Honda Transalp, 117 hp Yamaha Mt09 SP. The bike that surprises me the most is always the CB500X, it is just a happy balanced allrounder with enough power to ride anywhere!
Hi Stuart. I agree 100%. I have two bikes in my stable rated over 100HP, I am a fairly seasoned and competent rider, but there is no way I would attempt to push these bikes to anywhere near their limits. First road conditions and traffic make it very unwise to think so, secondly, very few humans could handle the full capability. I do like the weight for stability, and on our highways in the USA. (which I generally avoid because they are boring and I prefer to enjoy the ride instead of trying to get there as fast as possible) On our two lane State routes and country roads that are the most enjoyable, the Classic 350 and my vintage Honda CX500c at 20 and 51 rated HP respectively are more than enough to ride at legal and sane speeds. I feel no need to push those bikes to their limits, most riders couldn't and survive long. As you have said a good rider checks his/her EGO at the door. Stay safe, live long, and enjoy the ride.
When people complain about how much power they say they need...I ask them "How often is your speed being determined solely by how much power you have"? Of course...on ANY motorcycle there will be times when you can flog it...but those times are few and far between on the street. Being honest...the old adage "It's more fun riding a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow" is actually true.
That's 100 Percent true, but it's also more fun to ride a fast bike fast, and riding any bike at any speed is fun, just not as much fun. (for me)
The aggressive riders aside, many people realize that they don't need too powerful of an engine but like the low end grunt of a big engine, because with a 30hp 250-300 big bore short stroke engine from Japan they will rev it out to use it and they don't like the feel that. The Japanese have big fault for that, making their bikes 99% big bore-short high rev engines to get top end and top speed. For example the feel of a RE J series 350 engine is like to ride bigger Japanese without pushing it. Another fault of the Japanese bikes they intentionally are making the smaller versions bike a bit 'not right' for you to want to get the bigger model.
Actually Honda has been pretty reliable about making bikes with square bore and strokes, check their specs for their bikes from 1970 onwards.. There are some slight changes to somewhat oversquare in their lineups from year to year.
I'll say this about oversquare engines, they tend to like loafing at higher rpms whereas the Honda singles and twins were more of mid range oomph, wide torque plateau feel.
Yamaha likes bikes with oversquare bore /stroke configurations, as does Kawasaki. With that configuration comes a peppy engine that likes to be spun up, also the valve sizes can be larger with less angle between the intake and exhaust valve stems which makes for a more compact engine even when using 4 valves and DOHC. The engines you are describing are by a large margin 4 valve, DOHC and short-stroke sportbike engines.
Noting that most of the Suzuki 2 strokes were undersquare because of their copying the old DKW 125 post-WWII era military bikes and their Schnerle porting. It allowed for their tiddler bikes to have a broad torque curve. Even the old GT 750 Water Buffalo was long stroke. Bags of low end torque from that engine.
Absolutely right! Thank you for your research! The same problem exists for the brakes or active suspensions for example. If you NEVER ride with slicks on a circuit, you will NEVER use/need that "stopping power" they sell to you for a very high price. This stopping power is : 1. YOU 2. the state of the road 3. your tyres 4. your breaks 5. your suspensions, knowing that if ONE of these is not perfect fit (most of the time the rider...), you won't have enough "stopping power"... etc... etc... But let's not forget, dear Stuart, how we say in french : " you can't make a donkey drink if it's not thirsty" 😉 If they want to pay for the "show off" of expansive (beautiful?) bikes at the terrace it is OK... if they keep silent 😂🤣😂
This is why you are one of my favorites. No BS assessments of reality versus fiction. 👍 The old Ace Cafe’ guys got it right when they put the bulk of their efforts into reducing weight.
Great opening sequence. Looking under your mirrors, dodging vegetation with your head. Smooth, fast and sweet. I think you're right the HP thing too.
Excellent video. Last year I toured the length of France, over the Pyrenees (6,000 ft) and across northern Spain, with camping gear, on a 50-year old 27bhp (claimed in 1972) bike. B-road speed limits of 80/90kph were easily maintained. It was relaxing and fun.
Big without torque is great for racing, whereas modest horsepower with useable torque is very handy all round. My T-140 is probably struggling to deliver 50hp and is completely rideable and will still get you into trouble if you’re not paying attention.
Whereas I have a 2013 Benelli TNT1130 R160 that’s meant to deliver somewhere around 150hp, but does this at very high RPM. It is completely devoid of modern rider aids like ABS and traction control. That one also has great torque but is unforgiving of inattention.
I’ve also got a 2007 Honda CB1300 Bol D’Or, also without rider aids and a modest 115hp, but it is beautifully tractable until you wake it up, but otherwise just like a big scooter. Mountains of useable torque too.
Oddly enough a few years ago I kept up with mates on a Panigale and the other on a Firelblade and they were quite surprised to see me there. I spent no time at all looking at the clocks and am unlikely to want to do this again. Just as I will never use the juice the Benelli puts out. But it’s nice to have it on tap. 👍🏻
Good video Stuart, I agree with everything you said in this video.
Quite so. I haven't ridden motorbikes for some time now but in youth toured Scotland, Ireland, France on a 50hp CX500,
and found that a superb touring machine with more than enough performance.
Great content Stuart, Yes you are right about how much BHP you need. Most of the high end bhp motorcycles, the power is at the top-end. It also depends on Toque and engine configuration ie V-Twins, single's and 4 inline engines. That's why parallel twins, V-twins are more popular because they have more character and have the power where you want it for road riding ie at the bottom end. I own a few bikes, Honda CB500 W reg that has 45bhp and a bmw R Nine T with 102 bhp I have just as much fun on the Honda then on the BMW. Traction control was developed by MotoGP to stop there 240bhp from spinning -out on start off being more controllable around corners and bends it only restricts bhp when the back wheel loses traction. I have Traction control on my BMW and it doesn't restriction bhp. It is a good safety feature.
Well said, i appreciate your point of view. I’ve got an R1250RS and I’ve been about 125mph on it but I don’t think I’ve even approached the max of the horsepower. I think my R1100RT was perfect at 97 horse power. But I did have a CB750 with about 50 horse power and that could keep up with the R1100RT
That’s great news , l’m a 63 year old and have just bought a royal Enfield interceptor 650 which has 47 bhp , and at my age and my ability to react to given situations this is perfectly adequate for me , no it doesn’t have ridiculous acceleration but it’s just nice for me , the days of me hanging onto the handlebars for dear life as the engine acceleration tries to pull my arms out of their sockets are well behind me .
I have been thoroughly enjoying riding my interceptor at nice sedate speeds , it’s fantastic for cruising around and actually seeing the scenery rather than blasting by it .
Well said, Stuart. The same issue occurs with cars as well. I have concluded that a lot of the 'bad' driving techniques occur because today's overpowered cars actually tend to 'get there' before the driver does, a lot of the time. You yourself [given your working background] will be familiar with the expression concerning being a 'passenger' in the vehicle you are driving?
My motorcycling days are probably over...partly realised when I found I couldn't get my leg over a Honda 125 without resort to those steps horse riders used to use , to mount up. Age has its drawbacks [nobody warns us about the amount of pain, getting old entails].
Given the last 20 years of my working life was spent as a specialist [their description, not mine]....at that place local to you, which you might be familiar with...{ DST ?] I do feel able to hold opinions as to driving standards...but I find I simply become more 'disappointed' with all I see...[not 'angry' in the least, just disappointed!]..
Disappointed with all, including LGV /PCV drivers, Police drivers, [and emergency vehicle drivers..something many at DST were closely involved with]..Because nobody is perfect...and all one can do is to minimise the risk levels one either incurs, or generates.
I don't bother anymore trying to educate, or preach, regarding the standards of driving or riding I observe....It would all be rather futile in this day & age, methinks?
Ego is the driver, as you point out.
Lower horsepower doesn't equate to 'slow' at all.
I've always suspected this. Appreciate the break down. Excellent video.
I went from 40 to 65BHP on bike 1. 70 to 85BHP on Bike 2. Bike 1 is 1980 and weighs 200kg. Bike 2 is 2013 and weighs 300kg. Neither rev over 6500. This suits me fine. Modern cars are very fast, and merging on a slip road or accelerating with traffic does require some oomph. I could live with 30BHP on the backroads on a 150 to 200kg bike and have great fun. Not on A and M roads though. Even Transit vans are fast, modern turbo diesel HGVs also. EVs (unless in range anxiety mode) are in another class altogether. I don't feel safe on the A1 unless I can keep up.
Thanks Stewart.... I live in the wheatbelt of Australia where even grannies (going shopping) drive at the legal top speed of 110kms on the mostly sealed roads which they share with road trains which are limited by their weight and size to 100kms....I have a small 1 ltre car which has to drive at a speed slightly faster than a road train to avoid being rear ended by one ....I try to find a spot to pull over, and find that to do so I would end up 6 feet upside down
and in a ditch....As a motorcyclist too, I find that smarter bikers than me make their bigger bikes look like police bikes, to scare other road users to give them space, but my NSU 50cc Quickly cannot follow their example. This is only half a tongue in cheek to bring a smile to your day..... I always enjoy your posts....Thanks a million 🐤🐤🐤🐤🐤🐤🦘🦘🦘🦘
I have owned many motorcycles and the most fun I’ve had was on a 75hp bike weighing 149kg. I think the weight of the bike makes the biggest difference to the fun factor. Look at MX bikes, 100kg and under 50 hp. So hp is relative and cant be compared like for like. Then there are other factors like the geometry of the bike, the tires, the electronics etc
My Scrambler 400 has plenty enough power for me nowadays, I think to a certain degree with older age, comes greater wisdom, and the Scrambler's 39.5 (claimed) BHP is enough to propel the bike to about 95mph, enough to get banned anywhere... I'd rather get more from a smaller machine than buy 100bhp bike and not use half of it... then there's the weight issue... big bikes = more weight and older riders seem to be heading towards lighter, lower horsepower machines to get their jollies... if you made a graph of age to horsepower figures they would form a cross with older riders needeing decreasing BHP and younger riders wanting more.
I've certainly followed this imaginary graph plot in my machine purchases over the years with progressively higher horsepower in my youth to progressively lower HP as I've aged... it comes to us all eventually I suppose... good vid Stu
Ride safe...👍😎
It was great to learn about the HP you said i was thinking about that triumph speed twin 1200 cos it got 100 HP i thought it'll fast enough but i'm gonna go for the speedmaster 1200 which only has 76 HP. I'm glad i came across your video a big thank you very much.
I disagree on a few issues.
1. You do not need any specific power. You do not need a motorcycle at all. This really is not about need at all.
2. More power is comfortable and feels luxurious. The ability to ride uphill and/or at different speeds without changing gears to stay in the "correct" rev range just feels nice and relaxed.
3. On the road, somewhere between 70 and 100 hp becomes effectively "infinite" power because I never actually use the available maximum anyway. But, as mentioned above, the fact that the power I actually use is available at lower revs makes the ride a lot more pleasant.
4. The horsepower test is an apples to oranges comparison. It makes zero sense to compare the 70 actual hp to the theoretical 100 max hp that are available at one singular rev value. The fact remains that that particular motor can deliver those 70 hp in a certain rev range and a motor that has 70 hp max would not be able to do that.
Interesting video, Stuart. I've had 1100 and 1300 Pans, ZZRs, Triumph triples and a load of other bikes in my 62 years. Recently I've sold my 66 hp Vstrom 650 and bought a 24 hp Suzuki GW250 twin - the smallest bike I've had since I was 17 years old. It's fabulous! I don't think I've enjoyed riding so much for decades. I'm not going to ride the Picos mountains on it, of course, but it's everything I loved about bikes when I started riding. Hopefully more manufacturers will look at the success of the Triumph 400 and the Enfield Hunter and follow suit! Keep up the good work 👏
Good morning Stu. Good video. I do agree with you. I’ve owned bikes from a very humble 10 bhp Triumph Tiger cub up to a 160 bhp sports tourer. I had lots of fun on that Tiger cub. There is no way on earth that I could have used all that sports tourer power on the road. Owning a high power vehicle ( bike or car) is more to do with bragging rights in my opinion.
Had many bikes over 40 plus years of riding all types and genre....now have a 350 meteor and a continental 650gt...never been happier in my riding. Either to work or recreation...both bring a smile in different levels....and yes I've had a Harley-Davidson to a R1...never been more impressed by my bikes at the moment. ❤
Right on point, thank you for clarifying that, now proud owner of MG Stone v7 2014, I was thinking the same, why would anyone need more than 50 hp. Best Regards from Skopje. Have safe ride everyone.
I look at torque figures, not just the peak number but also the curve on a graph if one is available. Power is just the result of torque times RPM, plus some other numbers.
An engine with a wide and linear torque curve will feel so much better on the road than a high revving peaky race engine.
Nice chat Stu, enjoyed. Gosh that bridge is quite long innit.
A Mile between towers, I can see it from my back garden as I type
I have a Triumph T100 which has 14.1 horsepower more than I need! I also enjoy the fact that it has 5 and not 6 gears.