Technically he and Saruman can never leave Middle Earth but can only exist in form of formless spirits/ghosts so maybe he can show up in nightmares or influence someone or something with his dark magic/ ghost possesion whispers powers. It could be how the cult of Sauron in sequel was created. Ghost of Sauron literally corrupting humans into ressurecting him or causing End of the World by ghost whispering to them.
@@CreationBrosZone-km5be Meh. I am willing to make a bet that they will say that human sacrifice made by stupid cultist to Sauron or Saruman or even Melkor made one of them strong enought to act in ghost form or Shadow form like Sorceror of Dol Gundur. Maybe they would try to revive Witch King with human sacrifice instead and the new „heroes” would need to stop the cult, fail, fight Witch King/Sauron, and either win and go home, or lose, Sauron starts Dagor DAGORATH
@@euclyptuseuphoria3759 pretty damn accurate comparison. Wish I thought of it sooner. But I think it would fit Melkor/Morgoth better, since Sauron is like a minor Cuthulu, while Morgoth is the big Cuthulu, world ender kind of deal
Can Sauron ever return? The Red Book: _No._ *(End credits)* You take the extra step to dive into the lore and explain the "why," which is awesome. May none of us live to the day a LOTR adaptation says the words: _But somehow, Sauron returned...._
Both of these videos on Sauron’s fall are awesome! Great work once again! I’ve always imagined Sauron after his fall as diminished so much that if a mortal would come upon him, he would not be seen or heard. Instead it would be a dark presence. A feeling of dread, but nothing more. It couldn’t influence you or coerce you, just be sensed. And after you left it’s presence, you would think of it no more. In can’t of a worse fate for Sauron than to be forgotten and without control over others since before his fall he craved control and order more than anything. What I wonder is, has he lost all self-awareness and awareness of what is around him? I think so.
The second of a double video about The Fall of Sauron. Here I discuss the possible return of Sauron following his defeat and what makes his fall different from the fall of Morgoth in the First Age. The first video focuses on the 'death' of Sauron. Support The Red Book www.patreon.com/TheRedBook ua-cam.com/channels/POz2P0OxWp0ij0K4BsLsRw.htmljoin
Sauron’s power, separated from him when he lost the ring, could be wielded by another if they were sufficiently strong. With Morgoth’s power also separated from him as he was away from middle earth while beyond the door of night, could that power likewise be wielded by another, such as Sauron? Since it didn’t happen, apparently not. But what would be the rationale as to why not?
Have you made an intentional decision to speed-up your narration? I can't tell if I'm just imagining it. Assuming I'm not, I think I prefer the slower pace. But I'll get used to it! Great video as always.
No, I speak with my usual slow pace but I spend a lot more time doing the audio editing. I edit out a lot of the longer gaps that you'd find on my old videos.
I have always wondered if, maybe, he joined Morgoth in the Void. This text from Valaquenta does say: "In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void." Notice how Void is written with uppercase V. So MAYBE this is not referring to metaphorical void, but the Timeless Void where Morgoth is held as well. It's a stretch, but I think it might be possible.
@@Enerdhil As i have read this is canon. Sauron was cast into the Void too. By the way, all servants of Morgoth and Sauron and Saruman are cast into the Void after death. Saruman was cast into the Void too, as all dead orcs, Gollum and the others.
It's not clearly written that Sauron was cast into the void. There's one mention in The Silmarillion of him following the same ruinous path of Morgoth into the void. There's no text anywhere saying he was actually placed there which is something that would need to happen. Morgoth was placed there by the Valar with the blessing of Eru. There's no text about where Orcs would go. Nothing about Saruman being placed there. And the Ringwraiths and Gollum would follow the path of Men upon death.
My theory of a “Sauron Returned” story would focus on how we have no idea what the blue wizards were up to. If one fell to temptation and the other stayed true, you could have a fascinating back and forth between them at the corrupted one seeks to resurrect Sauron by sacrificing their own substantial power in order to bring him back into the world in some form, whilst the other must rally a complacent and docile world into taking actions to destroy the fallen and his followers. Tolkien only “suspects” they fell, and I like to imagine the dichotomy would work of one versus the other. Would also let you focus on Haradrin, Rhun and Khand without breaking the Tolkien legendarium’s writings and move the setting into a more modern, representative age
Fascinating insights, thank you. It does beg the question, if Sauron's power boung into the Ring disspated on the destruction of the Ring then one wonders if that native power was actually, as opposed to effectively destroyed. If Sauron was a "scale model of Morgoth" and Morgoth's power ended up in Arda, virus in the source code if you like, that suggest the prospct of a smaller scale equivalent to Sauron, perhaps affecting a limited part of Middle Earth.
I absolutely love the part in the book where Frodo is able to use the ring against gollum. Always felt like this was a tiny little peek at what it must have been like to witness Sauron carrying the great ring. The ability to make puppets of the world around you and of those in it. Able to make simple statements that will come true, as if you saw it, or made it happen. That's what the ring is, it is a physical representation of sauron's will, and it represents his ability to make a puppet of the world and its people, allowing him to Bend the rules of the world around him, since breaking them is something only Eru could do. That's why it is brilliant that the ring was destroyed by its own ability. It put forth the stipulation that should Gollum touch Frodo again he would go into the fire. And he did, with the ring. It destroyed itself
great video. my opinion and the way I read the books is a bit different. the Ainur, as I see them, are as much part of the world as gravity or light refraction - and as such they are inseparable from it until its end. so, it is not a question of whether Sauron can or cannot return - as he cannot leave. the question is whether he can gather back to him the power that was lost to him when the one ring was destroyed. here I would agree that the most practical path for him to accomplish that is to wait for Morgoth's return and to hope that once he does, he will restore Sauron to his full power.
Brilliant video as usual ! And that’s what I thought on the topic ,it’s just weird for me when fans start speculating Sauron can return ( some even go as far as suggesting when Morgoth returns , he’d bring Sauron back too).
I think with Dagor Dagorath, anything goes really! There's talk of other figures, even mortal figures, coming back for it. If Morgoth was able to somehow imbue Sauron with some power, why not? But Dagor Dagorath is a tale within the tale that wasn't taken very far. It's why I didn't specifically mention it here but referenced the return of Morgoth. Almost implying that we are indeed talking about the End of Days without mentioning Dagor Dagorath...
@@TheRedBook yeah,some mortals were mentioned ( such as Turin ) to be expected to return for that. It’s just, would Morgoth care enough for Sauron to give him power to be embodied again,and won’t that cost Morgoth as well 🤔. I don’t say “ it can’t happen “ I just don’t see a point to be done.
Yeah that's what I think as well with it. Unless it's some all out war with everyone coming back, which is very Ragnarok, but the end of days seems very Morgoth against the World to me. Still, with something like that I think people can let their imagination go wild.
@@Baulx138 empowering other beings , costs Morgoth . He is spilling his power like that. He was the strongest Ainu, pouring so much of his power in Arda and into his creatures lead him to grow so weak and scared.
Good stuff as ever Steven. I believe that both sauron and Mordor, are destined to return to hear Eru, produce more beautiful music from their themes in Arda remade, that at least is my interpretation, I am as always willing to hear that I am mistaken. Thanks.
He put his essence into the ring which was destroyed so I’m going to say no he can’t return. Yet morgoth could return! Cool channel dude nothing I like as much as nerding out to lotr lore!
I don't know if it's even possible, but what would happen if a different Maiar would craft another ring of power specifically for Sauron's use, and what little remains of Sauron got his hands on it, would he be able to return then? Would he be able to essentially cannibalize the power in that ring and take it for his own? We know for a fact Sauron in his disembodied form can touch objects such as the One Ring, as he had it on him when he escaped Numenor.
(written before the video was premiered): I think he could return, but never get physical form again. His legacy whould be alive somewhere and people will definatly remember him. If he can just appear in dreams or whisper into some creatures ear, who can perceive the "soulplane" (or whatever its called), he could start a cult and rule from the unseen world as a spirit. He just needs a Messiah (or Anti-Christ) like figure who will do his bidding and he could start slow and hidden in the shadows, like he did in the beginning of the 3rd age. The Problem with that is that he whould have to rely on his legacy and remembrance. I think he whouldnt be able to dominate people by beeing so terrible and fear inducing that you couldnt think of anything else then do what he says. He whould need to do some trickery like Lucifer or a Jinn or something. People whould need to do what he wants out of free will not just by command. The Question is how much corruption in his followers "died" with him. The Orks scattered and it sounded like he did not only die, but everything he corrupted got cleansed. I think he whould need to pray on tortured souls and trick people to do what he needs to be done... i dont know. You could write a story like that, but whould it be satisfying? If you whould write a sequel to LotR, I think you should go the same way like from 1st to 2nd age. Make the villain a follower of the last big bad, a bit less grandious, a bit less magicy so that you could conclude, that the evil after that 4th age evil (the evil in the world today) is the last bit that is left of Morgoth and that the good side always wins in the end despite the ods, but evil is never killed. There will always be the next "idiot" that tries to be as badass as the last one, but is just weaker and fails. i dont know :D just writing what came to mind ^^
I can't wait dude I love Sauron so much for some reason. He's almost a tragic anti-hero in some ways and I've always been curious about him like I'm from Harad or something 😂
How is he almost an anti-hero? He served tolkiens version of Satan with his own free will and murdered personally and not many who were not deserving for his lust for power and control.
I have similiar feelings about Sauron - his role in whole legendarium makes him so special. People who only watched the movies could find his character a typical, posterboy dark lord of your random fantasy story - but part Sauron plays in the Great Music, his decisions and way he acted through the ages show not only mere cunning or malice, not only self-love or desire for greatness, but a foul wisdom indeed, a mind as brilliant as it was evil. I love Sauron so much lol
@@TheLastAxeman Lol I used to have dreams that I was some sort of Middle Earth Journalist invited to go to Barad Dur and interview Sauron and it was just wild. The Orcs were pitiful and sad and the Nazgul were very polite and Sauron was beautiful. Made it out like it was all an unfair misunderstanding against him and he's the only one who cares about the poor Orcs and Morgoth was terrible but he wasn't. Really interesting stuff
@@TheLastAxeman This description of yours makes me put Sauron into a “mad scientist” box, haha. Shapeshifting, necromancy, illusions, fear…for what else is he known?
@@mrs.manrique7411 he kinda falls into that box if you think about his endeavours in twisting lifeforms into something else, better fitting his goals. Fell beasts, olog hai or black uruks from Mordor are good examples of Sauron as kinda mad, evil scientist using his vast knowledge to breed new creatures, twisting them during the painful process
What would happen if Orodruin became dormant and the lava that melted the One Ring cooled and turned to stone with the particles of gold scattered through out. Could Sauron's ëala regain enough power to possess someone and get that person to establish a kingdom at the base of the mountain, where Sauron's power would collectively greater,, perhaps even allowing him to possess the person? Just a wild thought....
@@BenFrayle LoTR aftermath. Decades later, Aragorn is a devastated shell of a man. Arwen divorced him and took custody of the kids. And I want to puke just from even imagining how badly Disney would screw this up.
Maybe a story of Annatar, Bearer of Gifts, and the Numenoreans. I actually have the germ nucleus of a far better story that derives more directly from Professor Tolkien's Legendarium of Middle-earth.
When you read or think about Tolkien's books as a philosophy the overall themes and elements jump out at you. The way the narrative is supposed to go or flows. The nature of Sauron, the Ring, everything that happens or is said to happen in the overall story at any given point. Most philosophical writing and a lot of religious texts go on endlessly about the power within people. Here's a character fully aware of that power and all it entails, God even, and he sacrifices it for lesser gains. The ring is less than what it's made of and what it's made of is something precious. In the world of Tolkein that would be the Soul, the better part of Sauron's anyway. There's a lot of "what is the nature of being" themes in these stories.
Hey Mr Redbook, question - Sauron lost a lot of power in the downfall of Numenor I assume, but he took up the ring and with time regained his strength and waged war, eventually resulting in the War of the Last Alliance. Subsequently he had the ring taken, and with it lacked the power to return for quite some time, but eventually was able to regain enough power to be able to militarily win the War of the Ring only losing because it was destoryed. The question is, if he hadn't lost power in the Downfall, would he have still have been vanquished forever with the destruction of the ring? Obviously he needed to destroy Numenor somehow, but had he somehow escaped back middle-earth before Eru's intervention would he have retained enough of his own power to continue to have influence over the world in some way?
Does anyone know if it would be possible for Sauron to be present at the Dagor Dagorath? I know it's not canon, but I've researched it and can't find a lot of discussion about it.
I like how Sauron is depicted in art in his great and terrible form when he is crafting the one ring, rather than a fair form. In the timeline, did he craft the one ring before he got his fair booty kicked by Eru at Numenor? Or was it after?
Sauron forged the One Ring around the year 1600 of the Second Age. He took the ring with him to Numenor, which was destroyed in 3319 of the same age :) We don't really know what Sauron looked like when forging it but I like the various interpretations. I wish more people didn't just use the movie version though...
I'm more worried about Saruman. He has done nothing to diminish his power, if there were limitation imposed when he came to Middle-earth do they still hold? His misty spirit is described as dissolving into nothing, but is that truly nothing, can he reform? All in all it seems an abrogation of responsibility by the Valar not to send him to or accept him in Mandos if there's any prospect of him coming back
Saruman did a lot to diminish his power. That's why he's so weakened by the time we reach him at the end of The Return of the King. He's put his power into his "machinations and devices", spending his power in order to gain more control over others. He still needs to accept the responsibility of his actions. He turned west because it would be expected but he was rejected. I'm guessing if he actually spends time thinking of his actions and seeking a true pardon, he'd be granted it in time.
If you read The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion carefully, you see that not only Valar and Maiar, but Eldar as well are able to pass a bit of their spirit into material things, and that only Men are not able to do this. In the Fellowship of the Ring, one of the hobbits remarks on the magic of some of the equipment being given to them. The Elf who hears this says that he does not know what the hobbit means by that word, and goes on to explain that they merely put the thought of the things they love into the things they make. We also hear of Elf-made artifacts having minds of their own; the sword Gurthang *speaks* when Turin asks it if it will slay him quickly.
I think the closest thing we would have seen to him "returning" is perhaps him, as a dark spirit, sending lies and dark secrets into the ears of those men in the east he once held power over. Perhaps spark a petty, mortal "dark lord" or two with his impotent whispers. Unable to do anything on his own. Even then, that would be a stretch, I think.
I've thought about this a bit. After the destruction of The Ring i imagine that Sauron was left as a sort of Poltergeist. If that's the case then maybe he could be brought back!! Perhaps summoned by dark rights and incantations. Sacrificed virgin's? Evil spell's written upon flayed Hobbit skins? Yeah i think he could be brought back.
I agree that Sauron can never return as a major power, even if he possibly still exists as some form of Maia entity. Apparently, Morgoth will return at "the end of days" but it looks like he will be defeated, at least by Turin Turambar, or so it is written. Who knows, really...? Thanks for the video. 😎😎
“As Morgoth was being carried chained towards the Void, few even among the Valar noticed how He was progressively diminishing, to the point in which, when they got Him before the Doors of Night, He was already only a shadow of what He once was, emptied of all His might and power. But none saw that, while being shoved off the Doors of Night, Morgoth was secretly smiling. For all His might and power Morgoth had passed to Middle Earth, imbuing the very world with His spirit. And thus the Valar were deceived, not knowing that what they cast into the Void was only an empty shell” (from “Of Morgoth’s return”, a non-existing sequel to the LotR never written by Tolkien 😁)
For me Arda has been a secondary world a mirror of our world and I am convinced that the might of Sauron has regrown about the second born. Hybris, materialism, endless wars, the fall of all what is good in the world for greed. Governments who spy on their people and are corrupt and arrogant. So I am pretty convinced. My quesion only is, whether our world will bring forth a heroe like Frodo and will be saved again for a time or are we to experience the Dagor Dagorlath in our lifetimes or that of our children. I sm afraid$, but so are all who are born in such times. We can only try our best with the time given to us.
I mean, even a withered old man with a dagger can do serious harm to the world with the right targets. Given enough time he might be able to at least manage that.
In Biblical lore God keeps the demons around to chastise humanity. The Prince of Persia, an Angelic being, opposes Michael for quite some time. The Riders of the Apocalypse are Pagan Gods wreaking havoc on man kind. Sauron could very well be repurposed by Eru Illuvatar.
Even though Sauron was the ultimate evil as he deceived everyone he met including Galadriel , he is a tragic character who was finally routed by the loss of his One Ring. He never tried to redeem himself but went on o become more evil towards his own followers and his foes alike. Fascinating and diabolical villain indeed!
if one wants to call Frodo naive(wish he is to some extent) then i realy dont know the word for the rest of the shire? Frodo is after all quite open and has been taught about a wider world from both Bilbo and Gandalf. Atleast as to the outcome of his own journey one cant realy call him naive.
He's naive when it comes to the danger and importance of the ring, the malice of Sauron and why he'd enslave Hobbits for no 'real' reason. Which makes sense at the beginning of his journey. He then develops and grows through experience. Being naive to something isn't always an insult.
There's nothing mortal in the world that could restore Saurons power as a maiar except the two lost blue wizards or maybe a 10th nazgul in the form of an immortal elve trying to rebuild his forces. All the lost lesser rings of power could maybe be used somehow to force something powerful enough to bind sauron to a physical body.
@@TheRedBook Just hypothetical. I've read tolkiens books and know that there's no way to revieve a powerless maiar spirit without maiar powers. Maybe the last wizards could be used somehow creating another ring with their powers infused.
There's no real answer to this one but if Sauron can't recover his power when the ring is destroyed, what difference would there be if it was 'unmade', it's still effectively breaking the ring is it not? Though, there is talk of Feanor 'unlocking' the Silmarils at the End of Days. Interesting question though, I'd like to think there would be some method through repentance of Sauron being one with his power again but, as I say, there's no definitive answer here.
Not in my opinion. Tolkien has said even Sauron himself was incapable of casting the Ring away or injuring it, the sway was so great even on its creator. That said, a way to "take back in" the power of the One Ring did possibly exist. But it was just so utterly beyond Sauron by that time that it was basically impossible. That is, feeling true repentance for his actions. The process Sauron used to create the Ring was a similar procedure to how Morgoth poured himself into the matter of Arda to control it. To quote Morgoth's Ring: "...even if the process was reversible (possibly was by absolute and unfeigned self-abasement and repentance only) he cannot bring himself to do it." Referring to the way Melkor could take back spent power into himself by feeling _true_ repentance over his actions, which he was wholly incapable of. The text goes further to say that Sauron followed Morgoth in that vein, completely mentally rejecting repentance, and actually mocking the very idea.
Maybe he can not form his own body. Does that mean as a spirit in Arda he can not influence men and in that respect still act as Melkor's emissary? That might have been the next chapter, once men forgot the stories and legends of the past.
Sauron could only come back if someone where willing to put forth the effort and resources to bring him back. Also it would be a very broken sauron; maybe a babling mad person
He can’t return until Tolkien’s version of Ragnarok, or at least that is my understanding. Given he is a deceiver, perhaps he could influence others to do his bidding or maybe his humbling could fix his corruption or perhaps it would make him more bitter and twisted.
The question, as I see it, is THIS: was post-ring Sauron still "sentient"? Does his defeated destroyed ring form still possess consciousness, his identity, his desires intact? if not, there is essentially no Sauron to personally attempt to restore himself ecover his power. A malevolent cloud doesn't possess the process to think, to have ambition, to seek revenge. It's just a cloud. So the answer, I think, is, "Does Sauron still possess the mind-power to seek to return, to exact revenge, to take form again?
Short and simply no, he lost the one thing that tied his immortal spirit to any kind of form, he's literally nothing now but a powerless spirit, if even that
Don't believe Sauron could come back. However Saruman might after a long time, maybe a thousand years. Fortunately Saruman isn't nearly as powerful as Sauron.
There is only one way for Sauron to regain power, and that is the way he received it from the beginning. Iluvitar himself would need to grant Sauron the power to reconstitute and rise again. The chances of this range from a snowflake's survival of a millisecond in perdition and the repentance of Morgoth of hus wickedness.
Morgoth's ring was never destroyed obviously, Sauron's ring was undisputedly melted down in the fires of Mt. Doom from whence it came. Maintain continuity and do not conjure cheap tricks to return the lesser dark lord, otherwise we get modern day directing of story telling which is terribly pathetic tbh.
I will speak about sauron first and then morgoth 2nd. I absolutely relish defying Tolkien's interpretation as if just because he created the art doesn't mean it applies to other people that are embracing his art and interpreting that art for themselves.... I do not like his interpretation or anyone else's for that matter if it doesn't make sense to me.... That being said, you have to wonder are these Ainur greater and lesser do they have regenerative power? Or are they like a spent flamethrower fuel tank, once it's gone it's gone.... But here's the thing.... Morgoth was looking for the imperishable flame or undying power, infinite power. Eru was the only one that possessed this however he used that imperishable flame he use that endless power to create the Ainur and though the Ainur did not have endless or boundless power.... In my opinion they had incredible yet finite power.... With the ability to regenerate over time....Sauron had poured a large portion of his energy into the ring.... However I do believe they misrepresented what happened and Tolkien made a mistake.... In the mistake is why would Sauron lose all of his power if the ring was destroyed.... So follow me on this.... Let's say Sauron at 100% power dumped 50% into the ring.... And left 50% within himself.... So explain this to me why when the ring was destroyed why would it destroy Sauron? It would not.... If the ring was destroyed and it has 50% of his power then that means that he would have still been left as he was separate from The Ring... This is the major flaw nobody is seeing.... So the ring falls into Mount Doom and all that power is released.... But that is power lost that doesn't mean in my opinion that the other 50% Sauron has left is also diminished which makes no sense because if that power was outside of himself inside of a ring and it was now separate then that ring being destroyed would not have any effect on Sauron.... So everybody has missed this and they have followed each other over the cliff like lemmings....Sauron would still be as he was without the Ring and he would not be any less diminished at 50% power.... He would not be a harmless shade... He would be Sauron at 50% power and even if you used it as 40-60 or 30-70 he would still have what he had when the ring was destroyed....HUGE ERROR on everyone's part.... Not only would he still have half of his power which was not connected to the ring but he would be able to regenerate the other 50% that was lost because when energy goes out and is expended it still is existing So eventually overtime he would have regained 100% of his Power.... Sauron at 50% power could still continue at the same Pace he had since creating the ring.... So there would be no rest from Evil there would be no rest from Sauron.... So he continues to be a significant threat well waiting for the other fifty percent to return.... And it would return because he is finite however they get their power from the flame and perishable from Eru.... Now Morgoth was made as the chief of the Ainur and had all of their powers and he was significantly more powerful than them ... And I've discussed this many times that in my opinion he was the Crown Prince I mean why else would Eru give him a significant power over his fellow Ainur Huong when they descended into our data he battled them for untold eons invest of them Time and Time and Time and Time again.... So by time Tulkas arrived he was fresh off the bench and Melkor had been fighting for EONS NON STOP....and whoopin dat Valar hiney..... So the Valar over time became even more diminished and weakened than Morgoth.... Hence that's why they had to send wizards hence that's why they had to have the elves fighting for them that's why Eru was the one to deal with numenor because Manwe in company had been completely or nearly spent....also that's why Eru moved the home of the Valar outside the realm of Arda ... But over time Morgoths strength and power would regenerate.... So long story short is there's going to be regeneration and the return of dark Lords
Imagine a sequel in which Morgoth returns, after deceiving all the other Valar into thinking they ended him. Because most of his power was already spread all over Middle Earth
"Can He Return?" No. Professor Tolkien went home to be with Jesus. There will be NO MORE LoTR. People can go make up new 'fairy stories'. Leave our beloved world of Middle Earth alone!
Technically he and Saruman can never leave Middle Earth but can only exist in form of formless spirits/ghosts so maybe he can show up in nightmares or influence someone or something with his dark magic/ ghost possesion whispers powers. It could be how the cult of Sauron in sequel was created. Ghost of Sauron literally corrupting humans into ressurecting him or causing End of the World by ghost whispering to them.
From what Ive seen, sauron has been reduced to a weak insane spirit wrapped up with self pity. Not one capable of speech
@@CreationBrosZone-km5be Meh. I am willing to make a bet that they will say that human sacrifice made by stupid cultist to Sauron or Saruman or even Melkor made one of them strong enought to act in ghost form or Shadow form like Sorceror of Dol Gundur. Maybe they would try to revive Witch King with human sacrifice instead and the new „heroes” would need to stop the cult, fail, fight Witch King/Sauron, and either win and go home, or lose, Sauron starts Dagor DAGORATH
@@CreationBrosZone-km5be Shadow of Mordor is not meant to be lore accurate it’s fan fiction and somehow still better than Rings of Power.
So almost like Cthulhu
@@euclyptuseuphoria3759 pretty damn accurate comparison. Wish I thought of it sooner. But I think it would fit Melkor/Morgoth better, since Sauron is like a minor Cuthulu, while Morgoth is the big Cuthulu, world ender kind of deal
Can Sauron ever return?
The Red Book: _No._
*(End credits)*
You take the extra step to dive into the lore and explain the "why," which is awesome. May none of us live to the day a LOTR adaptation says the words: _But somehow, Sauron returned...._
Both of these videos on Sauron’s fall are awesome! Great work once again!
I’ve always imagined Sauron after his fall as diminished so much that if a mortal would come upon him, he would not be seen or heard. Instead it would be a dark presence. A feeling of dread, but nothing more. It couldn’t influence you or coerce you, just be sensed. And after you left it’s presence, you would think of it no more. In can’t of a worse fate for Sauron than to be forgotten and without control over others since before his fall he craved control and order more than anything. What I wonder is, has he lost all self-awareness and awareness of what is around him? I think so.
@@VaderPopsVicodin10 Definitely.
Gandalf described him as a broken spirit filled with self pity hardly capable of rational speech
@@yurikendal4868 Nice, I like that one!
The second of a double video about The Fall of Sauron. Here I discuss the possible return of Sauron following his defeat and what makes his fall different from the fall of Morgoth in the First Age. The first video focuses on the 'death' of Sauron.
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Wonderful presentation, as always!
What happens to other embodied Maiar (Balrogs, Wizards) when they are killed? In the course of Dagor Dagorath, could Melkor resuscitate Sauron?
Sauron’s power, separated from him when he lost the ring, could be wielded by another if they were sufficiently strong. With Morgoth’s power also separated from him as he was away from middle earth while beyond the door of night, could that power likewise be wielded by another, such as Sauron? Since it didn’t happen, apparently not. But what would be the rationale as to why not?
Have you made an intentional decision to speed-up your narration? I can't tell if I'm just imagining it. Assuming I'm not, I think I prefer the slower pace. But I'll get used to it! Great video as always.
No, I speak with my usual slow pace but I spend a lot more time doing the audio editing. I edit out a lot of the longer gaps that you'd find on my old videos.
been waiting for this one!
By far one of the best channels on UA-cam. Your videos are excellent.
I have always wondered if, maybe, he joined Morgoth in the Void.
This text from Valaquenta does say:
"In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void."
Notice how Void is written with uppercase V. So MAYBE this is not referring to metaphorical void, but the Timeless Void where Morgoth is held as well.
It's a stretch, but I think it might be possible.
So how would Sauron's ëala get into the Void? The door must be opened and he must be thrown out.
@@Enerdhil As i have read this is canon. Sauron was cast into the Void too. By the way, all servants of Morgoth and Sauron and Saruman are cast into the Void after death. Saruman was cast into the Void too, as all dead orcs, Gollum and the others.
@@morgothfromangband6082 - Don't know where you read that but it wasn't Tolkien who wrote it.
@@TheRedBook But where would they go else? And about Morgoth and Sauron was clearly written that they were cast into the Void.
It's not clearly written that Sauron was cast into the void. There's one mention in The Silmarillion of him following the same ruinous path of Morgoth into the void. There's no text anywhere saying he was actually placed there which is something that would need to happen. Morgoth was placed there by the Valar with the blessing of Eru.
There's no text about where Orcs would go. Nothing about Saruman being placed there. And the Ringwraiths and Gollum would follow the path of Men upon death.
My theory of a “Sauron Returned” story would focus on how we have no idea what the blue wizards were up to. If one fell to temptation and the other stayed true, you could have a fascinating back and forth between them at the corrupted one seeks to resurrect Sauron by sacrificing their own substantial power in order to bring him back into the world in some form, whilst the other must rally a complacent and docile world into taking actions to destroy the fallen and his followers. Tolkien only “suspects” they fell, and I like to imagine the dichotomy would work of one versus the other.
Would also let you focus on Haradrin, Rhun and Khand without breaking the Tolkien legendarium’s writings and move the setting into a more modern, representative age
Awesome analysis. One of a kind 🔥🔥🔥 best channel
They'll return for more movies and books. MONEY!
Fascinating insights, thank you. It does beg the question, if Sauron's power boung into the Ring disspated on the destruction of the Ring then one wonders if that native power was actually, as opposed to effectively destroyed. If Sauron was a "scale model of Morgoth" and Morgoth's power ended up in Arda, virus in the source code if you like, that suggest the prospct of a smaller scale equivalent to Sauron, perhaps affecting a limited part of Middle Earth.
I absolutely love the part in the book where Frodo is able to use the ring against gollum. Always felt like this was a tiny little peek at what it must have been like to witness Sauron carrying the great ring. The ability to make puppets of the world around you and of those in it. Able to make simple statements that will come true, as if you saw it, or made it happen. That's what the ring is, it is a physical representation of sauron's will, and it represents his ability to make a puppet of the world and its people, allowing him to Bend the rules of the world around him, since breaking them is something only Eru could do. That's why it is brilliant that the ring was destroyed by its own ability. It put forth the stipulation that should Gollum touch Frodo again he would go into the fire. And he did, with the ring. It destroyed itself
great video. my opinion and the way I read the books is a bit different. the Ainur, as I see them, are as much part of the world as gravity or light refraction - and as such they are inseparable from it until its end. so, it is not a question of whether Sauron can or cannot return - as he cannot leave. the question is whether he can gather back to him the power that was lost to him when the one ring was destroyed. here I would agree that the most practical path for him to accomplish that is to wait for Morgoth's return and to hope that once he does, he will restore Sauron to his full power.
A very engaging episode ❤. Loved it.
Excellent topic thanks 🙃
Quality video as always 💪
Brilliant video as usual ! And that’s what I thought on the topic ,it’s just weird for me when fans start speculating Sauron can return ( some even go as far as suggesting when Morgoth returns , he’d bring Sauron back too).
I think with Dagor Dagorath, anything goes really! There's talk of other figures, even mortal figures, coming back for it. If Morgoth was able to somehow imbue Sauron with some power, why not? But Dagor Dagorath is a tale within the tale that wasn't taken very far. It's why I didn't specifically mention it here but referenced the return of Morgoth. Almost implying that we are indeed talking about the End of Days without mentioning Dagor Dagorath...
@@TheRedBook yeah,some mortals were mentioned ( such as Turin ) to be expected to return for that. It’s just, would Morgoth care enough for Sauron to give him power to be embodied again,and won’t that cost Morgoth as well 🤔. I don’t say “ it can’t happen “ I just don’t see a point to be done.
Yeah that's what I think as well with it. Unless it's some all out war with everyone coming back, which is very Ragnarok, but the end of days seems very Morgoth against the World to me. Still, with something like that I think people can let their imagination go wild.
@@Ka_T_ya I think, if possible, Morgoth would give power to Sauron. If nothing else, Sauron has atleast proven to be a very competent general.
@@Baulx138 empowering other beings , costs Morgoth . He is spilling his power like that. He was the strongest Ainu, pouring so much of his power in Arda and into his creatures lead him to grow so weak and scared.
Good stuff as ever Steven. I believe that both sauron and Mordor, are destined to return to hear Eru, produce more beautiful music from their themes in Arda remade, that at least is my interpretation, I am as always willing to hear that I am mistaken. Thanks.
Mordor? Or do you mean Morgoth?
@@johnjacko8752 of course I meant Morgoth, not always that I type what I mean on my night shifts, thanks for pointing this howler out.
He put his essence into the ring which was destroyed so I’m going to say no he can’t return. Yet morgoth could return! Cool channel dude nothing I like as much as nerding out to lotr lore!
I don't know if it's even possible, but what would happen if a different Maiar would craft another ring of power specifically for Sauron's use, and what little remains of Sauron got his hands on it, would he be able to return then? Would he be able to essentially cannibalize the power in that ring and take it for his own? We know for a fact Sauron in his disembodied form can touch objects such as the One Ring, as he had it on him when he escaped Numenor.
Would that be Radagast who formed the Ring? Then Sauron would return in the form of an ape.🦧
Maiar is plural for Maia
There’s still the “failed” blue wizards. Perhaps a remnant of Saruman’s ring, wherever that pitiful thing went.
Your channel is great, keep up the good work.
(written before the video was premiered): I think he could return, but never get physical form again. His legacy whould be alive somewhere and people will definatly remember him. If he can just appear in dreams or whisper into some creatures ear, who can perceive the "soulplane" (or whatever its called), he could start a cult and rule from the unseen world as a spirit. He just needs a Messiah (or Anti-Christ) like figure who will do his bidding and he could start slow and hidden in the shadows, like he did in the beginning of the 3rd age.
The Problem with that is that he whould have to rely on his legacy and remembrance. I think he whouldnt be able to dominate people by beeing so terrible and fear inducing that you couldnt think of anything else then do what he says. He whould need to do some trickery like Lucifer or a Jinn or something. People whould need to do what he wants out of free will not just by command.
The Question is how much corruption in his followers "died" with him. The Orks scattered and it sounded like he did not only die, but everything he corrupted got cleansed. I think he whould need to pray on tortured souls and trick people to do what he needs to be done... i dont know.
You could write a story like that, but whould it be satisfying?
If you whould write a sequel to LotR, I think you should go the same way like from 1st to 2nd age. Make the villain a follower of the last big bad, a bit less grandious, a bit less magicy so that you could conclude, that the evil after that 4th age evil (the evil in the world today) is the last bit that is left of Morgoth and that the good side always wins in the end despite the ods, but evil is never killed. There will always be the next "idiot" that tries to be as badass as the last one, but is just weaker and fails.
i dont know :D
just writing what came to mind ^^
I can't wait dude I love Sauron so much for some reason. He's almost a tragic anti-hero in some ways and I've always been curious about him like I'm from Harad or something 😂
How is he almost an anti-hero? He served tolkiens version of Satan with his own free will and murdered personally and not many who were not deserving for his lust for power and control.
I have similiar feelings about Sauron - his role in whole legendarium makes him so special. People who only watched the movies could find his character a typical, posterboy dark lord of your random fantasy story - but part Sauron plays in the Great Music, his decisions and way he acted through the ages show not only mere cunning or malice, not only self-love or desire for greatness, but a foul wisdom indeed, a mind as brilliant as it was evil.
I love Sauron so much lol
@@TheLastAxeman Lol I used to have dreams that I was some sort of Middle Earth Journalist invited to go to Barad Dur and interview Sauron and it was just wild. The Orcs were pitiful and sad and the Nazgul were very polite and Sauron was beautiful. Made it out like it was all an unfair misunderstanding against him and he's the only one who cares about the poor Orcs and Morgoth was terrible but he wasn't. Really interesting stuff
@@TheLastAxeman This description of yours makes me put Sauron into a “mad scientist” box, haha. Shapeshifting, necromancy, illusions, fear…for what else is he known?
@@mrs.manrique7411 he kinda falls into that box if you think about his endeavours in twisting lifeforms into something else, better fitting his goals. Fell beasts, olog hai or black uruks from Mordor are good examples of Sauron as kinda mad, evil scientist using his vast knowledge to breed new creatures, twisting them during the painful process
What would happen if Orodruin became dormant and the lava that melted the One Ring cooled and turned to stone with the particles of gold scattered through out. Could Sauron's ëala regain enough power to possess someone and get that person to establish a kingdom at the base of the mountain, where Sauron's power would collectively greater,, perhaps even allowing him to possess the person?
Just a wild thought....
Great video! :)
What is the name of the soundtrack starts at 1:28 ?
Hi, Semih Sargın, for information about artwork, music, and audiobooks, please check out the description of the video. Thanks!
@@TheRedBook Ive checked the links but those 3 links are not the correct soundtrack starts after 1:28 :(
Do you mean the music during quotes? That's called "Souls of Mist" and it's from the game Demon's Souls.
@@TheRedBook not that one too!
1:46 this part is more clear. I used Shazam but it couldn't find the background choir music :(
@@_semih_ Ah, apologies. that's Heaven" by David Fesliyan
Can he return? Only if Disney buys the IP...
Amazon begs to differ 😂
Don't even joke about it!
@@BenFrayle LoTR aftermath. Decades later, Aragorn is a devastated shell of a man. Arwen divorced him and took custody of the kids. And I want to puke just from even imagining how badly Disney would screw this up.
@Ben Frayle it's coming bro best accept it now
@@AJ0223 :-(
Would you like to make a video on the topic; Would Eru Ilúvatar ever incarnate and come to Arda, as is the case in Christian theology? Thank you.
Maybe a story of Annatar, Bearer of Gifts, and the Numenoreans.
I actually have the germ nucleus of a far better story that derives more directly from Professor Tolkien's Legendarium of Middle-earth.
When you read or think about Tolkien's books as a philosophy the overall themes and elements jump out at you. The way the narrative is supposed to go or flows. The nature of Sauron, the Ring, everything that happens or is said to happen in the overall story at any given point. Most philosophical writing and a lot of religious texts go on endlessly about the power within people. Here's a character fully aware of that power and all it entails, God even, and he sacrifices it for lesser gains. The ring is less than what it's made of and what it's made of is something precious. In the world of Tolkein that would be the Soul, the better part of Sauron's anyway. There's a lot of "what is the nature of being" themes in these stories.
Sauron AKA Zigúr, The Deciever, Gorthaur The Cruel, etc. methink he was worse in some ways than his master.
Hey Mr Redbook, question - Sauron lost a lot of power in the downfall of Numenor I assume, but he took up the ring and with time regained his strength and waged war, eventually resulting in the War of the Last Alliance. Subsequently he had the ring taken, and with it lacked the power to return for quite some time, but eventually was able to regain enough power to be able to militarily win the War of the Ring only losing because it was destoryed. The question is, if he hadn't lost power in the Downfall, would he have still have been vanquished forever with the destruction of the ring? Obviously he needed to destroy Numenor somehow, but had he somehow escaped back middle-earth before Eru's intervention would he have retained enough of his own power to continue to have influence over the world in some way?
Does anyone know if it would be possible for Sauron to be present at the Dagor Dagorath? I know it's not canon, but I've researched it and can't find a lot of discussion about it.
I would expect all the goodies and baddies to be resurrected for that final battle.
"Somehow, Sauron returned." - Lord of the Rings 9: Rise of Baggins
I like how Sauron is depicted in art in his great and terrible form when he is crafting the one ring, rather than a fair form. In the timeline, did he craft the one ring before he got his fair booty kicked by Eru at Numenor? Or was it after?
Sauron forged the One Ring around the year 1600 of the Second Age. He took the ring with him to Numenor, which was destroyed in 3319 of the same age :)
We don't really know what Sauron looked like when forging it but I like the various interpretations. I wish more people didn't just use the movie version though...
@@TheRedBook
True. I think Sauron took the form of a 🦇 when he forged the Ring.🤪
I'm more worried about Saruman. He has done nothing to diminish his power, if there were limitation imposed when he came to Middle-earth do they still hold? His misty spirit is described as dissolving into nothing, but is that truly nothing, can he reform? All in all it seems an abrogation of responsibility by the Valar not to send him to or accept him in Mandos if there's any prospect of him coming back
Saruman did a lot to diminish his power. That's why he's so weakened by the time we reach him at the end of The Return of the King. He's put his power into his "machinations and devices", spending his power in order to gain more control over others. He still needs to accept the responsibility of his actions. He turned west because it would be expected but he was rejected. I'm guessing if he actually spends time thinking of his actions and seeking a true pardon, he'd be granted it in time.
If you read The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion carefully, you see that not only Valar and Maiar, but Eldar as well are able to pass a bit of their spirit into material things, and that only Men are not able to do this. In the Fellowship of the Ring, one of the hobbits remarks on the magic of some of the equipment being given to them. The Elf who hears this says that he does not know what the hobbit means by that word, and goes on to explain that they merely put the thought of the things they love into the things they make. We also hear of Elf-made artifacts having minds of their own; the sword Gurthang *speaks* when Turin asks it if it will slay him quickly.
I don't know what this is in response to
I think the closest thing we would have seen to him "returning" is perhaps him, as a dark spirit, sending lies and dark secrets into the ears of those men in the east he once held power over. Perhaps spark a petty, mortal "dark lord" or two with his impotent whispers. Unable to do anything on his own.
Even then, that would be a stretch, I think.
I've thought about this a bit. After the destruction of The Ring i imagine that Sauron was left as a sort of Poltergeist.
If that's the case then maybe he could be brought back!! Perhaps summoned by dark rights and incantations. Sacrificed virgin's? Evil spell's written upon flayed Hobbit skins?
Yeah i think he could be brought back.
I agree that Sauron can never return as a major power, even if he possibly still exists as some form of Maia entity. Apparently, Morgoth will return at "the end of days" but it looks like he will be defeated, at least by Turin Turambar, or so it is written. Who knows, really...? Thanks for the video. 😎😎
When Melkor does return, it will be in the event Dagor Dagorath.
“As Morgoth was being carried chained towards the Void, few even among the Valar noticed how He was progressively diminishing, to the point in which, when they got Him before the Doors of Night, He was already only a shadow of what He once was, emptied of all His might and power. But none saw that, while being shoved off the Doors of Night, Morgoth was secretly smiling.
For all His might and power Morgoth had passed to Middle Earth, imbuing the very world with His spirit.
And thus the Valar were deceived, not knowing that what they cast into the Void was only an empty shell”
(from “Of Morgoth’s return”, a non-existing sequel to the LotR never written by Tolkien 😁)
For me Arda has been a secondary world a mirror of our world and I am convinced that the might of Sauron has regrown about the second born. Hybris, materialism, endless wars, the fall of all what is good in the world for greed. Governments who spy on their people and are corrupt and arrogant. So I am pretty convinced. My quesion only is, whether our world will bring forth a heroe like Frodo and will be saved again for a time or are we to experience the Dagor Dagorlath in our lifetimes or that of our children. I sm afraid$, but so are all who are born in such times. We can only try our best with the time given to us.
He will return at Dagor Dagorath in Morgoth's army.
What if Gollum's essence mixed with Sauron's power and he emerges from the lava as Golron 😂
I mean, even a withered old man with a dagger can do serious harm to the world with the right targets. Given enough time he might be able to at least manage that.
Well, perhaps "The New Shadow" isn't Sauron's spirit demonically podsessing anyone.....
In Biblical lore God keeps the demons around to chastise humanity.
The Prince of Persia, an Angelic being, opposes Michael for quite some time. The Riders of the Apocalypse are Pagan Gods wreaking havoc on man kind.
Sauron could very well be repurposed by Eru Illuvatar.
Even though Sauron was the ultimate evil as he deceived everyone he met including Galadriel , he is a tragic character who was finally routed by the loss of his One Ring. He never tried to redeem himself but went on o become more evil towards his own followers and his foes alike. Fascinating and diabolical villain indeed!
if one wants to call Frodo naive(wish he is to some extent) then i realy dont know the word for the rest of the shire? Frodo is after all quite open and has been taught about a wider world from both Bilbo and Gandalf. Atleast as to the outcome of his own journey one cant realy call him naive.
He's naive when it comes to the danger and importance of the ring, the malice of Sauron and why he'd enslave Hobbits for no 'real' reason. Which makes sense at the beginning of his journey. He then develops and grows through experience. Being naive to something isn't always an insult.
There's nothing mortal in the world that could restore Saurons power as a maiar except the two lost blue wizards or maybe a 10th nazgul in the form of an immortal elve trying to rebuild his forces. All the lost lesser rings of power could maybe be used somehow to force something powerful enough to bind sauron to a physical body.
That all sounds like video game stuff.
@@TheRedBook Just hypothetical. I've read tolkiens books and know that there's no way to revieve a powerless maiar spirit without maiar powers. Maybe the last wizards could be used somehow creating another ring with their powers infused.
Could Sauron have unmade the ring if he indeed had regained it, and have his old strength returned to him permanently?
There's no real answer to this one but if Sauron can't recover his power when the ring is destroyed, what difference would there be if it was 'unmade', it's still effectively breaking the ring is it not? Though, there is talk of Feanor 'unlocking' the Silmarils at the End of Days. Interesting question though, I'd like to think there would be some method through repentance of Sauron being one with his power again but, as I say, there's no definitive answer here.
Not in my opinion. Tolkien has said even Sauron himself was incapable of casting the Ring away or injuring it, the sway was so great even on its creator.
That said, a way to "take back in" the power of the One Ring did possibly exist. But it was just so utterly beyond Sauron by that time that it was basically impossible. That is, feeling true repentance for his actions.
The process Sauron used to create the Ring was a similar procedure to how Morgoth poured himself into the matter of Arda to control it. To quote Morgoth's Ring: "...even if the process was reversible (possibly was by absolute and unfeigned self-abasement and repentance only) he cannot bring himself to do it."
Referring to the way Melkor could take back spent power into himself by feeling _true_ repentance over his actions, which he was wholly incapable of. The text goes further to say that Sauron followed Morgoth in that vein, completely mentally rejecting repentance, and actually mocking the very idea.
Maybe he can not form his own body. Does that mean as a spirit in Arda he can not influence men and in that respect still act as Melkor's emissary? That might have been the next chapter, once men forgot the stories and legends of the past.
He should've swallowed the ring instead of wearing it.
Sauron could only come back if someone where willing to put forth the effort and resources to bring him back. Also it would be a very broken sauron; maybe a babling mad person
He can’t return until Tolkien’s version of Ragnarok, or at least that is my understanding. Given he is a deceiver, perhaps he could influence others to do his bidding or maybe his humbling could fix his corruption or perhaps it would make him more bitter and twisted.
The Red Book of Westmarch?
The very same!
The question, as I see it, is THIS: was post-ring Sauron still "sentient"? Does his defeated destroyed ring form still possess consciousness, his identity, his desires intact? if not, there is essentially no Sauron to personally attempt to restore himself
ecover his power. A malevolent cloud doesn't possess the process to think, to have ambition, to seek revenge. It's just a cloud. So the answer, I think, is, "Does Sauron still possess the mind-power to seek to return, to exact revenge, to take form again?
Short and simply no, he lost the one thing that tied his immortal spirit to any kind of form, he's literally nothing now but a powerless spirit, if even that
I wouldn't have a channel if we went with short and simple ;)
The lord of the rings 😍😍😍😍😍😍
Somehow Sauron returned
Don't believe Sauron could come back. However Saruman might after a long time, maybe a thousand years. Fortunately Saruman isn't nearly as powerful as Sauron.
There is only one way for Sauron to regain power, and that is the way he received it from the beginning. Iluvitar himself would need to grant Sauron the power to reconstitute and rise again. The chances of this range from a snowflake's survival of a millisecond in perdition and the repentance of Morgoth of hus wickedness.
Morgoth's ring was never destroyed obviously, Sauron's ring was undisputedly melted down in the fires of Mt. Doom from whence it came. Maintain continuity and do not conjure cheap tricks to return the lesser dark lord, otherwise we get modern day directing of story telling which is terribly pathetic tbh.
I will speak about sauron first and then morgoth 2nd.
I absolutely relish defying Tolkien's interpretation as if just because he created the art doesn't mean it applies to other people that are embracing his art and interpreting that art for themselves.... I do not like his interpretation or anyone else's for that matter if it doesn't make sense to me....
That being said, you have to wonder are these Ainur greater and lesser do they have regenerative power? Or are they like a spent flamethrower fuel tank, once it's gone it's gone.... But here's the thing.... Morgoth was looking for the imperishable flame or undying power, infinite power. Eru was the only one that possessed this however he used that imperishable flame he use that endless power to create the Ainur and though the Ainur did not have endless or boundless power.... In my opinion they had incredible yet finite power.... With the ability to regenerate over time....Sauron had poured a large portion of his energy into the ring.... However I do believe they misrepresented what happened and Tolkien made a mistake.... In the mistake is why would Sauron lose all of his power if the ring was destroyed.... So follow me on this.... Let's say Sauron at 100% power dumped 50% into the ring.... And left 50% within himself.... So explain this to me why when the ring was destroyed why would it destroy Sauron? It would not.... If the ring was destroyed and it has 50% of his power then that means that he would have still been left as he was separate from The Ring... This is the major flaw nobody is seeing.... So the ring falls into Mount Doom and all that power is released.... But that is power lost that doesn't mean in my opinion that the other 50% Sauron has left is also diminished which makes no sense because if that power was outside of himself inside of a ring and it was now separate then that ring being destroyed would not have any effect on Sauron.... So everybody has missed this and they have followed each other over the cliff like lemmings....Sauron would still be as he was without the Ring and he would not be any less diminished at 50% power.... He would not be a harmless shade... He would be Sauron at 50% power and even if you used it as 40-60 or 30-70 he would still have what he had when the ring was destroyed....HUGE ERROR on everyone's part.... Not only would he still have half of his power which was not connected to the ring but he would be able to regenerate the other 50% that was lost because when energy goes out and is expended it still is existing So eventually overtime he would have regained 100% of his Power....
Sauron at 50% power could still continue at the same Pace he had since creating the ring.... So there would be no rest from Evil there would be no rest from Sauron.... So he continues to be a significant threat well waiting for the other fifty percent to return.... And it would return because he is finite however they get their power from the flame and perishable from Eru....
Now Morgoth was made as the chief of the Ainur and had all of their powers and he was significantly more powerful than them ... And I've discussed this many times that in my opinion he was the Crown Prince I mean why else would Eru give him a significant power over his fellow Ainur Huong when they descended into our data he battled them for untold eons invest of them Time and Time and Time and Time again.... So by time Tulkas arrived he was fresh off the bench and Melkor had been fighting for EONS NON STOP....and whoopin dat Valar hiney..... So the Valar over time became even more diminished and weakened than Morgoth....
Hence that's why they had to send wizards hence that's why they had to have the elves fighting for them that's why Eru was the one to deal with numenor because Manwe in company had been completely or nearly spent....also that's why Eru moved the home of the Valar outside the realm of Arda ... But over time Morgoths strength and power would regenerate....
So long story short is there's going to be regeneration and the return of dark Lords
I think this goes to show that when you ignore the author you can make the Legendarium mean anything you want.
Imagine a sequel in which Morgoth returns, after deceiving all the other Valar into thinking they ended him. Because most of his power was already spread all over Middle Earth
"Can He Return?"
No. Professor Tolkien went home to be with Jesus. There will be NO MORE LoTR. People can go make up new 'fairy stories'. Leave our beloved world of Middle Earth alone!
I'm not talking about adaptations or other's continuing the story. I'm talking about Tolkien's works.
No no no no no no no no disney ruined star wars hbo ruined scooby doo and now the harry potter remake
BUT IT AiNT HAPNIN TO TOLKIENS LEGACY
This has nothing to do with adaptations. I'm talking about Tolkien's works.