Belt-in-Oil Timing Systems
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- Belt-in-oil manufacturers claim that “wet belts” offer up to a 30% reduction in friction loss compared to chains or dry belts.
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There have been so many failures of belt in oil system that screw up the engine entirely. The benefit is far far less than the problem it has created. These engine manufacturers have lost their mind.
The benefits for the car makers are great, it's called planed obsolescence...
@@AltMarc True. Benefits for car makers, not for car buyers.
You are supposed to scrap the car before the belt goes , that is 100,000- 150,000 miles .
My wife has just bought one of the eco boost engines at 33,000 , and I will make sure we sell it at 99,000 miles . 😮 ( if we are lucky , it will not fail before that )
There have been reliable belt-in-oil timing systems used in VW TSI engines. However, the best timing is a timing chain with multi-ply chains and low-friction coated metal guides. Timing chains for the most part last as long as you do regular oil changes. The traditional belt-in-air timing systems which have been widely used in SOHC and DOHC engines throughout the 1960s to the early 2000s are designed to last between 60,000 to 90,000 miles and are pretty good too and are easy to replace and a reputable mechanic will check it at 60K miles.
Thanks to the government for forci g them to meet emissions and fuel requirements. Throw reliability out of the window...
Chains,proven and tested over a hundred years,let's cut the bullshit.
Belts in oil system improves the manufactures profits.
It doesn't drive repeat sales.
These belts are letting go at as little as 40,000 miles. Truly disastrous resulting in massive cost or a worthless pile of metal.
Ford Ranger 2L bi turbo diesel uses a wet belt. After a while bits of rubber come off the belt and block oil ways. Crazy idea they have gone mad! A rubber belt running in hot oil is a recipe for disaster!
Back in the 70’s and 80’s, my husband, being a mechanic at the time says that one of the biggest causes of failure with the then new idea of using rubber belts in place of timing chains on overhead camshaft engines was oil leakage from the camshaft oil seal, the oil causing contamination and premature failure of the belt. A particular problem with the Ford Pinto engines. How on earth 40 plus years later have these so called design engineers decided that it’s a good idea to run a rubber belt through a ‘bath’ of oil? The mind truly boggles.
At least the Pinto was a non interference engine !
BELT IN OIL = MADNESS
1%efficient is not equal to the work when replacing that belt not to mention the price for that belt.
A motor that runs for years is always more efficient then making another motor to replace one that has piston valve party mix. The manufacturers really just want our money faster.
In my opinion wet belt engines are a complete disaster particularly for a used car buyer.
As you can never really be sure your shop is replacing your oil with the correct spec, these belts are just a time bomb. They also cost 3 times more to replace than a dry belt, so many cars will never have then replaced with the result that many will destroy their engines prematurely. Don't buy these cars and manufacturers will stop making them.
Hey that is unfair that people won't replace them and it will cause early engine failure. That may not happen. Especially when the belt fails long before it is do to be replaced because it may still deteriorate when not been driven continuously.
My daughter and her husband told me they were buying 2 new Chevy Tracs ,one for each of them, I said that I would not buy one because of the belt in oil timing belt and a tiny motor with a turbo charger to add to the stress it would already be under to move a heavy vehicle and to sum it up is asking for problems down the road in expensive repairs if you plan on keeping them way past the warranty, they both looked at me like What ? Then did not have any interest in asking what I was talking about and just disregarded anything I said with a mind set of a lot of people out there, when it breaks I will get it fixed, and if it is expensive, just put it on my credit card ! All they know is they like the looks of it, the price is cheap and nothing else matters.
The total brake failure that my son experienced while coming off the slip road at Junction 10 on the M23 motorway was terrifying and he (and his apprentice) were fortunate not to have been involved in a major accident at this busy junction.
The cause of the failure is well documented - the use of the wet belt inside the EcoBoost engine causes delamination over time. Debris from it eventually clogs the pick up pipe and vacuum pump which then fails causing the brake pedal to go hard.
The brake pedal simply cannot be depressed to slow the vehicle no matter how hard you try.
He is self-employed and relies on his Ford Transit Custom van everyday. It is currently at a Hendy Ford garage awaiting a goodwill gesture from Ford - as it is a few months out of warranty - yet the wet belt was not due to be changed for another 30,000 miles at the earliest.The current estimated cost of the repairs are £1,800! In addition, the failure of the wet belt may have caused damage to the turbo and the cost to replace it would be £1,000 according to Hendy. He has had the vehicle regularly serviced - using the specified oil.
Ford have a duty to undertake the repairs - and cover any additional damages resulting from the delamination of the wet belt but they are digging their heels in - offering a fraction of the repair cost.
Has it been resolved yet?
@@megataurus7779 Yes - after many weeks of wrangling ...and the vehicle being off the road in all that time. As I understand it, Ford and the dealer both made contributions which kept the final charge to my son to a minimum.
@paulfildes5489 good to hear,😉👍
@@paulfildes5489Should have been free repair with a good will compensation payment !
Typical of Ford,they make a balls up and expect the customer to pay for their incompetence,who in their right mind would run a belt in hot oil,I said right from the start this was a bad idea and it’s been proved right.
My bet is history will not be kind to these types of belts!
What an absolute genius the person is that came up with this idea for modern cars. I hope the company that person is working for has deep pockets, as I don't see why the paying public should foot the bill for all the failures.
Here in Europe we call the Ford Ecoboost the Ford EcoBOOM for good reason. Stay well clear of wet belt design engines !!!
The little 1.0l EcoBoom also had the inconvenient habit of bursting coolant hoses. The mass of the engine is so low that the whole engine overheats very quickly and then seizes, before the driver is aware of the problem.
Still, the engine is cheaper to make and that boosts (!!) Ford's profits.
After watching a recent video of a woman in charge of a small haulage company that purchases dozens of ford transits and saying that almost all of them had to go back to ford due to a wet belt issue, ive become rather cautious of my transit custom now !!
It is not a lot of fun changing a timing belt. Add oil in and you are just adding trouble. You don't have to add oil to the belt just make it of better material.
Sounds as smart as internal water pumps.
@@phiksit Changing water pumps on most front wheel drive small cars is a whole engine removal and reinstallation. Because there is no room to get bolts or the water-pump out.
1.0 ecoboost.
Failure (without warning) means the car is beyond economic repair $8.000 for new engine on 3 year old 35,000 mile dealer serviced car.
Ford say 'get lost, it's YOUR problem'
If you decide to change the belts before this happens, it costs $2,200.
DO NOT BUY A CAR WITH THIS ENGINE
There’s a TSB for the dealer to give a free long block. Your dealer ripped you off.
Are there aftermarket timing sprockets and timing chains for the 1.0 ecoboost engine?
Ecoboom!! 🤯
"So what's driving belt in oil technology"
A wish and a prayer?
I wonder how difficult it would be to produce kits to convert wet belt engines to chain as God intended.🙂
Any quick online search including UA-cam videos will reveal that wet timing belts are unreliable junk.
Several European automakers who have been using this technology for a few years have bombarded with complaints from customers of not only premature timing belt failure at the 50-to-60-thousand-mile mark on a belt supposed to last 150 thousand miles but rubber peels from the belt plugging up the oil sump screen causing the engine to have oil pressure loss and shutting down.
The oil pan must be removed to clean the sump screen which is costly.
Even worse, if a small piece of rubber gets into an oil gallery that part of the engine is oil starved, and you have premature engine ware.
To change the wet timing belt, it is labor intensive because many upper engine parts must be removed to access it making it expensive to replace.
The 2024 Chevy Trax 1.2 engine uses a wet belt system along with its sister, Buick Envista and owners of these cars are in for a rude awakening.
My advice, stay away from any cars that have this very unreliable technology.
Proper intervals 5000 km-6000 km or 3000 miles to 4000 miles for oil/filter will reduce the chance of wet timing belt degradation. Owners who experience issues run these wet timing belts without proper oil changes or incorrect oil. These wet timing belts with proper maintenance should last 125000km-150000km or 80000 miles to 95000 miles before required wet timing belt replacement........
Peugeot considère leurs clients comme responsable de leurs incompétences en ingénierie
Not only a Peugeot problem, Ford, Honda etc has the same problems. Clients need to change oil more often and even more if they use the car with the engine cold most of the times.
Hello from greece i got a question if you pour bardahl oil treatment to a. Wet belt can you do any harm to it or does it help the friction and i get more kilometeres until i change it
You were right timing belts and oil don’t mix. It causes the belt to degrade and teeth fall off.
I wonder if there’s a material they can use that won’t get broken down by the oil as bad or as quickly as
Yes a steel chain.😎
Recycled plastic bottles 😁
Honda's cheaper light-use GC motors use lots of plastic parts and OHC (belt-in-oil) and get a 3 month commercial use warranty. Their commercial-use GX motors have OHV (gear driven cam, pushrod) and a 3 YEAR commercial use warranty. So what would you conclude from that?
Come on... just make plastic timing chain. Problem solved 👍😁🤣
They are a nightmare. They clog up the engine as they degrade and the rubber particles block the oil pickup and other parts
I won't with the degradation of the wet timing belt timing systems would Shell Helix ultra stop or reduce the damage. Given the oil is fully synthetic GTL based oil with no crude oil base to case any reaction.
It is contaminants in the oil from the combustion of the engine that cause belt degradation. In Citroen PureTech engines what have belt in oil system, it causes the belt to fall appart and chunks from the belt clogging the oil paths in the engine leading the catastrofic engine failiure. So, frequent oil changes and using the premium fuel will extend the lifespan of the belt.
Also, all modern engines require fully synthetic oil. Even those that require semi-synthetic should use fully synthetic oils. There is no exuse. It is given that the oil is fully synthetic, why would anyone ever use a subpair oil.
And you need the oil that satisfies the quality standard for the specific engine, meanin it is designed for the engines that have belt-in-oil system. Also, manufaturers like Continental and Dayco had released an upgraded versions on the wet belt, that are more durable that the OEM ones from the few years ago.
Puretech = Purecrap or Pureshit as there now known as in the motor trade. Ford Ecoboost = Ecoboom or Aquaboost.
I'll avoid ever getting anything (not just ford) with wet belts unless i can find a way to convert to dry belt!
Belts are made from same companies that make our tires we love
So why is Ford seeing wet belt engine failures at 50K?
Sounds great shame it dont work , thats why the after market is popular because they dont last.
What's next composite engine blocks with metal cylinder sleeves🤦🏿♂️
I wouldn't be surprised if Ford or VW does plastic long block engines
Lmao Kia just took notes
Already a thing. Aluminium blocks with steel sleeves are composite.
I think there was a wacky proto type engine that was mainly carbon fiber and used metal sleeves with an alloy head. It was in a concept car I think.
Be careful what you wish for 🙂
Warning! The oil degrades a wet belt, and often causes the engine to fail around 100k miles. Search for the video, '"We have 6 vans with failed engines... They don't care" - The Ford Wet Belt Scandal', by Geoff Buys Cars
They need to close the faculty that engineers were graduated from.
honda has had small engines with wet belts for 20 some years. my gcv190 has been going strong since '06
Hardly a car
@@volt8684 so are the 3 cyl ford engines !
Another genius engineer just ask him or her they will tell you how smart they are.
All you need to do is remove the front clip from the vehicle. Remove the steering rack and the lower front frame then remove the engine and transmission from the vehicle and then remove and resurface the head and rebuild the bottom end of the engine. Its reallly streamlined and the belt only costs $500
Stop this Scam Nonsense.. these will Fail and cost you 10,000 dollar per car or Van.. you are being scammed and this will ruin you
Sick of this emissions mania.
Always had Transits, but wouldn't buy one of the latest types. Cambelt in oil ? Are all the modern vans as crap as this nowadays ?! Seems they're regressing not improving.
They're improving, improving production cost profit that is. Love my 2012 Fiesta, manual tranny and good old 1.6 petrol still running strong with little issue...no rubbish dry dual clutch transmission or wet timing belt system ( how they get these messed up is beyond me).
Always love European Ford but I'm really not surprised why they're on decline ever since they put these "ecoboost" engine as standard on pretty much all their current line up.
The rubber will lose particles and go glog the oil sump filter. Before I buy a car, I will make sure my timing belt is not touched by any oil
People barely take care of their cars as it is, and now there's another maintenance item? 💀💀
I guess more companies felt left out that their vehicles couldn't reach the prestige of VW / Audi brand... ie: gargage queens.
Ford may go under from belt in oil systems. All the Eco Boost engine failures are simply mind blowing. Worst engine design since the Chevy Vega 4 bangers.
Soo stupid a design, the engineers and those that approved the design should be fired and not let to even work on a Tri-cycle!
ummm pollution caused by failrue of belt eg ship new engine to MPG pollution if chain driven .... Ummm Think chain driven wins ..
More emmsion control, but she; they fail bigger emissions from replacing engines!
The stupidest design in engine technology ever. You buy one of these belt-in-oil engined cars, you're buying a universe of financial pain.
They're here. 3.0l Duramax. Seem to be popular on Euro/..... collaboration engines both gas and diesel. Expensive failures.
Ever wanted to explain the context of the phrase 'positive spin' to someone? 😏
Hmm 1% better fuel mileage for engine failure at 100k miles. Cause more waste in landfills as most cars wont be worth putting a new engine every 100k
Really? Fuel savings of 1%? It’s a shame to even mention this value.
And how much they save on the COGM? Maybe a few cents, maybe 50 dollar / unit. Peanuts!
And what about reliability, safety and cost of ownership?
Ford is being sued because their EcoBoost engine catches fire due to cylinder wall cracks, and the disintegrating oil pump belt causing premature failure of the engine, and degrades braking power and efficiency!
PSA engines, wet-belt disintegrate between two early oil changes on their own, engines need full replacement before they can hit 100 K kms (60 K miles). So that’s how “genius” this wet cam-belt system is! It only brings money to the manufacturer, robbing the car owners and sucking their wallets dry!
Wet belt systems are a disgrace for the well established car manufacturers!
Hybrid is the way to improve gasoline mileage.
Electric car with gasoline assist.
Allows no turbos, no GDI without port injection, no sleazy mechanical CVT, no accessory belts.
Allows efficiency tuned Atkinson cycle engine for even better fuel economy.
Electric car goodness without the electric car drawbacks.
Much like a torque converter automatic, but even nicer.
Sardines in oil was the better idea!
Mustard
Yes as long as it's olive oil and not that horrible for your health genetically modified soy bean oil.
The worst for blocking oil pick up pipe .the 1.0 ford eco boom .
You don’t see Toyota or Honda doing this nonsense
Honda did it on their 1.0 turbos fitted to Euro Civics. They also have premature failure issues, lots of reports on the net about belts failing before 40k miles, lunching the turbo and engine.
When I was buying my car I got in mind with avoid a great many things, 1 electronic parking brake, 2 keyless start, 3 any engine with less than 4 cyclinders aka 3 cyclinder engines which are far rougher, 4 any intrusive active safety systems like lane assist or AEB, 5 any car that does not have a spare wheel, 6 big wheels with low profile tyres, 7 any engine that doesn't use a timing chain. I ended up with a 2016 Toyota auris 1.2T with 16 inch alloys this was purchased in 2019. Fed up of cars with stupid stuff that ruins comfort and reliability.
I felt the same way... to avoid all those unnecessary complexities, and found the Chevy Spark (5 speed)... plus no turbo.
yes if 1 cylinder fail just deactivate it.. pull the injector. over haul at 3rd cylinder fail. you can even hack the sensor.. and ecu. its runing it's good.. 🤤
@@gravemind6536yup, I hate all the overly complex systems in these newer vehicles too. Which is why when I was looking for a small fuel efficient car to commute with, I bought a used 10 year old Nissan Versa with a 5 speed manual transmission. It's has a decent 4 cylinder with a timing chain, key for the ignition, and none of that electronic safety crap. It's like driving a Japanese economy car from the late 90s and gets about 36 mpg too. Only thing I wish it had was power windows, locks and mirrors. It's a cheap car but I appreciate it more and more seeing all these new cars loaded with complex crap.
I'm glad the comments section is populated by those who can see what a bloody stupid idea wet belts are.
Just look at the Ford ecoboom engines.😂
Its all about selling card once the engine blows thats it car is scrap.
The new VW Transporter uses the Ford chassis, and wet belt engine. Won't be buying either...
They are shite and break easily , This propaganda video is misleading!
Wet belt what a joke
What a stupid, stupid design and the reasoning is flawed. I know of no basic human would chose the risk of engine failure due to a wet belt if sat down and the design was explained to them. Even if they work, at some point the belt will have to be changed and considerable cost due to the labor involved all because of a $30.00 POS belt.
Hard pass, reminds me of the maintenance free transmission
and internal water pumps.
🤔😬😂 obsolescence thay want to sell a new car or truck.
Wet belts are an abomination.
For 1.2 puretech engines; just use right engine oil coded "B71 2302 or B71 2297" These engine oils are formulated to avoid damaging the timing belt. Other than these engine oils that you think are of high quality will damage the timing belt. Just use B71 2302 or B71 2297 PSA approved engine oils..
Not true, customers who have been using the recommended oil are still having high wet timing belt failure rates.
People need to change oil before brand recommendation due to oil dilution problems and for cars that do small courses they need to change every year because they use the car with engine cold and the oil dilution with petrol is even worst.
So, I’m the end, it’s all done to save the plant! Trouble s, it doesn’t! Thy seem to all fail requiring expensive repairs thus m😅re pollution manufacturing spares. One company has 10% of its 120 FORD TRANSIT vans off the road. Ford not particularly interested!
"Life of up to 150,000 miles" More like 30,000 miles.Just refuse to buy this junk.
Wet belts are crap !!
Emmissions😂
I know! What a con! What is the result in regards to emissions of having to manufacture millions of extra engines to replace the ones wrecked by trying to save 1% emissions!?
@@SisterAbdullahX most of those 1l Ford engines will end up in the scrap pile because the teeth broke off. At least make it a dry belt (i.e timing belt) which typically lasts 100k.
Is this a joke? Does this 🤡 not know what's happening with wet belt systems?
BS system
Just go for EV no timing belt problem solved 😊