Theologians in Conversaton; The Temple and the First Christians
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2012
- Margaret Barker and Tom O'Loughlin discuss the significance that the first followers of Jesus attached to the temple in Jerusalem, and how the imagery of the temple played a role in their developing understanding of Jesus and of their own identity.
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I like that there are no cartoons or dialogue bubbles in this presentation.
We orthodox Christians, I humbly submit, have a better grasp on tradition and history than thr western church and certainly more than protestants.
"What's it, men?" That's one of my favorite questions.
Margaret Barker nails the Christian emphasis on the creation account and the temple representing the presence of God. But many non-Christian temples also emphasize the presence of deity and center on creation accounts, and this is true for religion other than Hebrew and Christian. Such rituals find their way into various cultures, and I wonder if and how they are related. It seems to be more than just coincidence. Temples and creation myths go hand-in-hand in both Old and New World and extending well into Asia.
The high priest has no angel presence in Judaism. That is humbug. The High-priest is only the intermediate once a year at Yom Kippour for he is uttering the Holy Name of God, but the High-priest is not venerated as an angel of God. That is is totally impossible! Just read the Talmud and y will understand.
The Talmud is from centuries later, geez.
Jesus lived for the temple and his rituals. He never could have imagined the temple being destroyed.
The cleansing of the temple is clearly taken from the prophets. Whether it is a criticism to the temple priest in the time of Jesus is possible. But the gospels are no literal witness account but an interpretation of the message of Jesus within the Jewish liturgical calendar from the first century. The cleansing of the temple therefore is an interpretation of Chanuka. The followers of Jesus after 64 AC saw Jesus himself as the replacement of the temple symbolizing the presence of God but now in the person of the risen Christ and not in temple that doesn't exist anymore. That is what the Gospels want to tell the desperate community of THE WAY as they original were called and to introduce them into Judaism after the Temple period as they saw it. pitiful the Hellenistic and Gnostic interpretation took every thing literal and didn't understand the real message that was told with these Gospels in this liturgical and symbolic language. The apostle Paul is telling us the real story of Jesus not as a divine being from heaven but as the anointed one who has been raised from the dead by the Eternal One into the realm of the divine presence. therefore Paul can tell us that Christ is the real icon of Gods presence and love. But the later Christians after the destruction of the Temple took it all literal lacking to understand the real meaning of the Hebrew scripture and tradition.
Margret Baker is telling exactly this pagan heresy as bishop Spong calls it.
She is making Josephus to a traitor that is extremely anti-Semitic (and she is corrected on that by the interviewer) and she doesn't understand what a high priest meant. He is not seen as an angelic figure. That is totally not Jewish even in Jesus' time! He is just serving as high priest and nothing else.
Covering himself with the priestly vestments is just to cover his human incapability to be standing in the presence of God. If she only read the temple Scrolls and the Talmud on those matters she would have known. But she is blinded by the Gnostic heresy she telling and that is Biblical literalism as bishop Spong calls it.
NO HE DIDN'T.
@@watermelonlalala
Its pretty obvious antonius wasnt paying attention to Jesus speaking about the temple being destroyed.
Just words, anyone can speak words
But very few people can speak with such learning and such understanding.
+BigBen Hebdomadarius The truth is so far from what we have been told. I am sure without one slight doubt that Christianity arose from the sect of Judaism called the Essenes by the Greek outsiders. This group did not agree with the Temple practices by the other sects of Judaism so the temple worship in Jerusalem had nothing to do with the viewpoints of the apostles or Joshua the Messiah (every scholar will be forced to admit that his name is Joshua and not Jesus). In fact this group became ascetic for many centuries because of this and lived in the desert and mountains in solitude and prayer. The question we have to ask is, why did the political and religious powers of the 1st century try to so hard to obliterate the Essene sect of Judaism from historical record. They are not mentioned once in the New Testament, but an educated scholar would be led to assume that they were behind the New Testament, because it is written that Joshua opposed the Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees, but that singles out that Joshua had to be an Essene because there were only three main sects of Judaism, the Essenes, Pharisees, and Sadducees, however there were many other sects, just branched off of the three main sects. The Zealots and Sicarii were branches of the Sadducees, but again this was kept form the historical record because they did unrighteous acts of conspiracies. The disciple named Simon the Zealot is an outright lie to make you believe in a connection between the Zealots and the disciples of the Messiah. The same with Judas Iscariot. Paul was not a Pharisee but a Herodian. The Herodians, Sadducees, and Romans were all in opposition to the Essenes. The Essenes were the true royal family of priests and kings. The two branches of Essenes were Nazarenes and Ossaeans, the difference was that the Nazarenes believed in marriage. Nazarene means branch or lineage of king David. The Sadducees were an appointed lineage of priests, allowed to the temple by the Herodians. The Herodians were an appoint royal family, allowed to the throne by the Roman emperor. So you can see where this animosity originates from, how the Herodians and Sadducees were not real heirs to the throne, but instead of push their way to royalty, the Essenes became ascetic and went into the wilderness led by way of prophecy, resolving to not involve themselves in worldly matters. This is a brief overview of just the beginning of the political situation of 1st century Judea, and I am telling you, I have the learning and background to teach the true Way, and all the truth behind the incredible amount of lies which made up our religion. There was deep reasoning behind all that happened, it was not just an idea that Josephus or Paul had one day. It was a story line that played out of which they saw it could be taken advantage of to a high degree. Joshua founded the true church of the world, and they ran with it, added in complete falsehood, and took the credit for themselves.
You're off yr rocker mate. She's spot-on. God's presence in-clouds was located in the tenth century temple. (I Kings 8:1-12) It was built by King Solomon. (R. 970-930 BC). It had been the central organizing-idea of the whole civilization, basis of the covenant, and core of the theocracy for 1000 years till it was destroyed in AD 70. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem )
@@preteristlab-endtimes5683 hello
hahahaha
I'm a bit disappointed about her writings. She takes some things to literal.
In her book Temple Mysticism she thinks that the quot in Matthew 14,33 is to taken serious as an accurate account. Everybody knows thats impossible. Jesus walking on the water is symbolic meant.
Mysticism and literal Bible interpretation are two pair of shoes that don't fit.
good point
So does that mean that the raising of Lazarus, the healing of others and the Resurrection itself are...impossible?
@@cabarete2003 Of course the Jesus walking on water is a miracle story in a parable and it is the parable that needs emphased without Jesus in our lives we sink
Jesus was a nazarene, google their beliefs.
Also Jesus said his father was the God of Abraham isaac and Jacob.
Abraham was declared righteous before the 10 commandments, before the temple, before the prieshood, before isreal etc.
Why? because he believed God was able to do that which he promised. And Jesus was that promise made flesh. The Son he sent to testify of our father.